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Open mike 30/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 30th, 2019 - 128 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

128 comments on “Open mike 30/07/2019 ”

  1. Jenny - How to Get there? 1

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    [Some stray text in your name field Jenny. Might want to check it – MS]

    ‘For Sama’

    See the documentary they don’t want you to see.

    New Zealand International Film festival, Auckland, Thursday August 1, 8.45pm

    https://www.nziff.co.nz/2019/auckland/ticketing/buying-tickets/

    A must see first person account of living under the Assad regime's genocidal hail of bombs.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/for-sama-review-documentary-aleppo-1202161309/

    ‘For Sama’ Review: A Heart-Wrenching and Essential Documentary About a Young Mother in Aleppo

    SXSW winner is a bracingly horrific but resiliently beautiful documentary about a young woman raising her daughter in a Syrian war zone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsvBqtg2RM0

    • francesca 1.1

      A more nuanced view by Reuters back in 2013 when radical Islamists took over eastern Aleppo

      "The moderates are losing ground. In many parts of rebel-held Aleppo, the red, black and green revolutionary flag which represents more moderate elements has been replaced with the black Islamic flag. Small shops selling black headbands, conservative clothing and black balaclavas have popped up around the city and their business is booming."

      In other words , from 2013 on , there were no moderate rebels in eastern Aleppo .

      Or are you saying Al Nusra and the brutal sharia law courts they set up was a desirable model for the rest of Syria?

      The full article was written before the western media got their shit together on how it was all meant to play out and what their talking points were meant to be

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-rebels-islamists-specialreport/special-report-syrias-islamists-seize-control-as-moderates-dither-idUSBRE95I0BC20130619

      The mother of "Sama" came to Aleppo from outside. When interviewed on radio recently , she said she had no family in Aleppo, so they lived in the makeshift hospital.She came from outside to wage jihad against the secular govt.

      • francesca 1.1.1

        And in 2016 this report from Open Democracy

        https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/what-russia-and-rest-of-us-are-doing-in-syria/

        Things hadn't got any better

        Here are the words of Colonel Stephen Warren in April 2016:

        “It's primarily al-Nusra who holds Aleppo, and of course, al-Nusra is not part of the cessation of hostilities.”

        He was the spokesman for the US anti-ISIS military campaign in Iraq and Syria.

        • reason 1.1.1.1

          Yes …. and Jenny seems reluctant to admit that her 'good guys' have done the worst war crime / genocidal hail of bombs. …. In either Syria or Iraq.

          And she has not apologized …. or retracted, her loony tunes christchurch / jo cox Assad conspiracy theories

          • reason 1.1.1.1.1

            Now, I've stuck up for Andrew Little before …. but he has dropped the ball on this ,,, the john key / Nact security services

            Instead of sticking up for a failure ,,,, why can he not admit mistakes were made regarding 'security' ,,,, and we are working on fixing them. 14mins 10sec

            • reason 1.1.1.1.1.1

              https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkNKSEdKUNpxrj10qGE2mB1w5cSH3ohqFgXq-dKH7-MpsWBezUpQ

              A variation of the three monkeys …. Speak evil ….. while refusing to see or hear it.

            • Ad 1.1.1.1.1.2

              There's an entire Royal Commission occurring right now on this question so there's every reason for the Minister to wait until the proposals from that emerge.

              • reason

                That's true Ad …. which is why I would not have expected Andrew Little to deny their was a problem with where the security services were directing their resources.

                He stuck his stick in the mud … before the review ….

                Unlike you … some of the Muslim victims are offended and hurt by such denials and statements …. did you not watch the video and the people interviewed in it?.

                I make it a double knock-on between you and Andy L

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 1.1.1.1.2

            ….Jenny seems reluctant to admit that her 'good guys' have done the worst war crime / genocidal hail of bombs. …. In either Syria or Iraq.

            reason

            Putting words in my mouth again reason?

            I have never claimed that the US are the "good guys" in Syria. And long before you ever mentioned it I have condemned the slaughter in Raqqa by US and coalition air forces. A slaughter, I might add, that you and other Assad apologists cheered on and encouraged by smearing the whole Syrian people in revolt against the Assad regime as head choppers and terrorists.

            And she has not apologized …. or retracted, her loony tunes christchurch / jo cox Assad conspiracy theories

            reason

            Long before the Christchurch massacre which occurred on the anniversary of the start of the Syrian revolution.
            Long before this fascist atrocity I have argued that the Liberal Left's support for Assad style fascism and genocide in Syria would strengthen and embolden fascists globally.

            This is a view I still hold.

            8 reasons why Syrians will never forget Jo Cox

            The murdered MP campaigned for Syrian civilians both on the floor of the House of Commons and in the corridors of power.

            1. Jo repeatedly called for real action to protect civilians….

            2. Jo didn’t confuse Syria with Iraq….

            3. Jo identified the root cause of the killing – Bashar Al-Assad….

            4. Jo helped break the silence around starvation sieges………………

            https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/8-reasons-why-syrians-will-never-forget-jo-cox

            • Jenny - How to Get there? 1.1.1.1.2.1

              She was a politician and she had very strong political views and I believe she was killed because of those views … I think she died because of them and she would want to stand up for those in death as much as she did in life.

              Brendan Cox

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=De0Ed7-fwWA

            • reason 1.1.1.1.2.2

              Sill telling lies Jenny …. and putting words in peoples mouths.

              A slaughter, I might add, that you and other Assad apologists cheered on and encouraged

              The problem I have with jennys Ergot infected bread-crumbs regarding Christchurch / Assad … Is she is leading away from the truth.

              Out of the 100 odd words and phrases the Christchurch white subpremacist had written on his murder tools ……………… Not even a single one mentioned Assad…..

              Same with the thousands of words and testimony at Jo Cox murder trial ……… Zero, zilch, nada, nothing.

              To quote some respected people about Jenny….

              Basically she acts like a modern-day Joseph Goebbels who in Nazi Germany had the role of making inflammatory and inaccurate memes as minister of propaganda.

              Or more to the point …

              QoT: Jenny is – and I’m so not ashamed to “resort to obscenties” – a fucking liar.

              Tell us how you went from Israel into Syria, Jenny …. tell us about the hard right Apartheid state of Israel …. and their role in attacking Syria.

              Tell us something real for a change.

              • Jenny - How to Get there

                QoT: Jenny is – and I’m so not ashamed to “resort to obscenties” – a fucking liar.

                Tell us how you went from Israel into Syria, Jenny …. tell us about the hard right Apartheid state of Israel …. and their role in attacking Syria.

                Tell us something real for a change.

                reason

                I entered Syria from Turkey. Coming from Adana in Southern Turkey I went to the coastal city of Latakia in North West Syria, I spent most of time in Latakia in the al-Ramel Palestinian refugee camp on the outskirts of the city.

                The al-Ramel refugee camp was one of the first, if not the first, civilian area to be attacked by heavy weapons by the Assad regime. In this case gun boats. But there were also straffing runs on the camp by government fighter jets. The attack also included tanks and government snipers. In scenes reminiscent of Pinochet's Chile 5,000 refugees were herded into the Latakia football stadium. From there a number were 'disappeared' into government custody the rest were driven from the city to become refugees, a second time.

                How do I know this? October 2010 I was in al-Ramel and got to know it well. On returning to NZ, Palestinian friends I had made in the camp and who I trusted were able to give me first hand and near real time video footage of these attacks as they occurred.

                I can personally vouch for the fact that the refugees would have been and were completely unarmed and defenceless in the face of this brutal government assault.

                Is that real enough for you reason?

                And what was the refugees' crime?

                Siding with the anti-regime protests in the city.

                So reason, apart from Right Wing commentator Queen Of Thorns, where do you get your information, Stand up comic Jimmy Dore perhaps? Right Wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones maybe? Tea Party founder Ron Paul?

                All of this motely grab bag of self appointed experts on Syria have been quoted in these pages at various times by people such as yourself.

                Personally I prefer first hand eye witness accounts from people I have met and know.

  2. vto 2

    There is something missing with the issues at Ihumatao..

    This site was chosen by the early main migration peoples because it was clearly one of the best living environments around – good soils, easy access, good climate, nice places to build houses, etc.

    Those factors apply today too. It is still a good place for people to live for a whole bunch of similar reasons. In addition, peoples are still migrating to the same place.

    Nothing has changed has it.

    In this light there is a strong argument that the protestors should allow more migrating peoples to live next to them just like they did, for the exact same reasons they did, in exactly similar circumstances as theirs were.

    It is a good place for peoples to live. Locking this activity away from the site may look rather selfish and short-sighted in the future and it may be that these realities have been forgotten in the heat of the current storm..

    It is a good place to live and we should live there again – just like we did in the past (subject to appropriate acknowledgement and protection for our history).

    • Sanctuary 2.1

      I was speaking last evening to a young fellow who is off today to do his bit as a protester at Ihumātao. Now, putting aside his take on the politics of it (he had a rather ageist view of the Iwi elders, amongst other potential objections) the meta I took away from listening to him was how much his generation has a yearning for change that the tools a civic society atomised by neoliberalism and social media might not be able to deliver. These days there is little understanding of the sort of civic societies that need to exist to create the circumstances mass movements can bring about change He hoped (rather than expected) that Ihumātao would be his generations "Bastion Point" or "land march" moment. Similar inchoate hopes and desires for peaceful systemic change comes from movement like climate rebellion and earlier from the occupy movement, and IMHO it isn't limited to young people.

      I don't think it too long a bow to draw to see this desire for change in a world where the current norm of extreme capitalism is in crisis and neoliberalism has systematically dismantled pathways of civic change the seeds of frustration that have given rise to right wing populism – people want change, and they don't care what side of the political spectrum it comes from. The political climate may be starting to change in NZ to be more in line with overseas trends.

      • vto 2.1.1

        Sure, and I agree with that sentiment. It may be that Ihumatao takes such a place in our society, as a point of change. However, that sentiment sits alongside the points I make above, not in place of.

        • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1

          I think your first point (at 2) is valid, but more for reasons you don't mention. On TDB Bryan Bruce refers to three iwi groups involved with the locality, yet neither he nor anyone else explores the history of that. If the treaty settlement only identified one of those as mana whenua (as seems to be the case), perhaps there was a miscarriage of natural justice which originated the stand-off.

          Govt ministers keep saying the situation hinges on mana whenua without explaining why. Tacitly conceding tradition & precedent must prevail over protest is how that seems to me.

          Sanctuary's description of `inchoate hopes' driving the protest momentum seems apt. If the system is discriminating against the other stakeholders, everyone needs to spit the dummy & say so! Protestors can't win on inchoate hopes & numbers, they must produce a rational basis for their case. Still no sign of the media reporting any such thing, nor has anyone here done so.

          • Pat 2.1.1.1.1

            "Protestors can't win on inchoate hopes & numbers, they must produce a rational basis for their case."

            Indeed they can….especially if all that is required is ‘change’ and the backing down of the elite

            • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Well, I predict they won't. Unless they produce a credible rationale which the govt can use. Cluelessness has never been an effective political strategy.

              • Wayne

                The government will back down. The question is by how much.

                I had originally thought completely, but now I suspect not. Maybe half.

                The government won’t want to give the SOUL a complete win over Te Kawerau a Maki. Much too much of a dangerous precedent.

                So maybe half into a public reserve attached to the current reserve, a quarter for Te Kawerau a Maki houses (as is already agreed) and a quarter for Fletcher houses. Fletchers sells the half for $40 million, and also builds the iwi houses.

                A deal like that would have much less impact on other treaty settlements. That will be a huge issue for the government.

                • Dennis Frank

                  That does seem a reasonable prescription for a compromise solution that works as win/win all round the table. If the Maori MPs see it that way, perhaps consensus can displace the entrenched inter-iwi rivalries….

                • ankerawshark

                  That seems reasonable Wayne.

                • Christ! Schedule me some counselling will ya! "I tend to agree with you" @Wayne. I don't 'spose you could get me a gig on the Nayshun could ya (as a member of the commentariat going forward). I'm nearing the Gold Card and the belt has been extended an extra notch. I'd even wear a leisure suit if makeup deemed it necessary. Better still, Mrs OwT (Mother) wouldn't mind a bit.

                • Ad

                  The only thing SOUL could do is depose Te Warena Taua as the primary elder on the marae, and then call the deal off. And then no one gets anything.

                  • mauī

                    The deal has more or less been called off now anyway. Impossible for a housing development to go ahead from this point.

                    • Ad

                      I think it will go ahead pretty much as written now, just with slightly fewer houses, and tens of millions of taxpayer compensation to Fletchers.

                • Chris T

                  I would think Winston would have to agree to it and I can't see that happening

              • Pat

                'They 'dont need to produce any rationale for the government ….thats the governments job and the rationale is forJoe publics consumption

                • Dennis Frank

                  Perhaps I'm less confident that the govt is capable of pulling that rabbit out of their hat than you are, huh? Normally in negotiations & diplomacy the various sides outline the basis of their position using a rationale to do so.

                  Protest movements that merely adopt an emotional stance therefore put themselves at a disadvantage. Omission of reasoning leaves a gaping hole where the rational basis of their political stand ought to be.

                  • Pat

                    lol…im not confident about the governments abilities at all, its simply a fact that the problem is theirs….you appear confused by comparing this to a diplomatic negotiation…it is anything but

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Well, I'm speaking from experience of having been in that type of situation intensively for several years. Do you have any actual personal track record of political experience?

                      Beats me why you think these multi-party roundtable discussions don't incorporate negotiation and diplomacy. In my experience, those two elements constituted the fabric of the interactions.

                  • Pat

                    lol…everyone has a track record of political experience….your claimed "multi party roundtable discussions" experience may be the cause of your confusion for that is not what is being demanded nor supplied.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      I'm not confused about the situation, and the media has reported the multi-party roundtable discussion the coalition govt organised – someone posted the link here several days ago. Maybe you didn't see that?

                    • Pat

                      Any talks…once they happen, will be bipartisan…they can dress it up any way they like

                    • Dennis Frank

                      I was referring to the one they had before the PM announced her change of stance. I was not referring to any hypothetical future.

                    • Pat

                      Of course you were

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Just to clarify, then, I am assuming they will replicate the format they used if they organise another…

    • A 2.2

      At this point I'm convinced that we don't have a housing crisis, it's an affordability issue. The absolute last thing we should be doing is building more housing that we do not need.

      When the bubble pops the empty/run down/half built houses next to sacred land will be an even bigger insult than losing it in the first place.

      • vto 2.2.1

        … is but a temporary issue in the scheme of the last 700 years of human migration to these shores and the next 700 years of human migration, particularly the next 100 years when NZs population is going to rise like a water table to similar densities as other long-migrated places such as the UK and Japan…..

        The Big Picture

    • Muttonbird 2.3

      The erasing of culture is at the root of this. Not great to make the same mistakes all over again.

      • soddenleaf 2.3.1

        The point isn't being made. That a culture that got here first has sites of archaeology that need to be protected. Sure, giving the isthmus is going to be the site of first colonisation by Maori, it's going to need some protection from land demand for mansions with sea views… …or remove all European colonisation. Can't have it one way not other.

      • vto 2.3.3

        That misses the point entirely.

        People have been arriving in aotearoa for 700 years. They continue to arrive today. They will arrive tomorrow. We that are already here need to move over and make room – particularly on those sites which make for good living and home environments.

        This is one of the realities that has been forgotten and doesn't seem to be factored into the current arguments. If this particular reality (along with the other realities such as the confiscation etc) is not dealt with then expect it to re-surface again in the future.

        • Muttonbird 2.3.3.1

          There are plenty of good sites not right on top of the first peoples' connection to the land – something which is a very central part of their culture and a part which has been ripped from them.

          You echo Ad's stance on Ihumātao when he said Maori should stop being sentimental about it because that place was once used for commercial activity so it should al ways be used for commercial activity. Presumably this also means Maori should stop being sentimental about their taonga, and their identity.

          Disgraceful.

    • mauī 2.4

      Let's say you have a nice bach in the Coromandel, you've lived there most of your life and it's been in your family for generations, built by your great grandfather.

      There is simply no way you would be "completely fine" with the neighbouring property building high rise apartments housing hundreds of new residents. Embrace them with open arms, like f… you would.

  3. Rapunzel 3

    It will be a torrid election year but is made worse by the media obsession with "gotcha" moments like the one from the fill-in Breakfast host this morning on TV One, it was a stance I read that also took place yesterday on current issues. In interviewing Winson Peters a claim was repeatedly made that issues being raised over the Ihumātao stand-off and concerns with the welfare of children as provided by Oranga Tamariki indicated grave divisions between the govt and "Maori".

    Thankfully Winston pressed on, inspite of the journalist’s bent towards “division” being the primary problem for govt to focus on and resolve, and repeated his statement that they are serious issues and are issues for all NZ and things the govt is working to resolve. The interviewer’s determination to make claims of divisions over and above the issues and convert every opinion, stake or interest to all of "Maoridom" was ridiculous, within that group as with the rest of NZ their is a variety of opinion.

    Media should stick to reporting the news not trying to pre-determine and influence what that news. or the outcome, might be.

  4. A 4

    ANZ in the headlines once again. Seriously if you are a customer you really should be at least looking at other banks at this point given multiple red flags around this bank in the last two months alone.

    An Auckland woman has turned down an offer of $2000 compensation from ANZ because she says she wants a full inquiry into the way the bank treated her.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/114587354/customer-rejects-2000-compensation-from-anz-over-hardship-application

  5. Sanctuary 5

    Went down country to visit the rellies last week. On Sunday morning I got four litres of milk courtesy of Daisy, the cow who inhabits the paddock next to the house I was staying in.

    It is an eye popping revelation to use old fashioned, untreated full cream milk from a happy cow with a name. It is delicious on porridge with a bit of home made honey, I will tell you!

    • Dennis Frank 5.1

      They've been selling milk from the farm just up the road from where I live at the edge of New Plymouth for years apparently – so much so the farmer built a special building with a parking area for customers. And when I lived in Ak my old mate Bill (who sailed out here from California in his yacht in the year of Muldoon, '75) has been heading out of town to get his milk fresh from a farmer for many years too. Never got sick from it.

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        Are you teasing us DF? One person never got sick from it – that's classic that is of taking a particular and applying it to the general – isn't that faulty generalisation?

        • Dennis Frank 5.1.1.1

          If you read what I wrote again you ought to be able to ascertain that I didn't mention any generalisation at all – so I have no idea why you assume so.

          • greywarshark 5.1.1.1.1

            I'm disappointed in you DF. You are quick to feign surprise that anyone could find a point of possible error in your pronouncements.

            • Dennis Frank 5.1.1.1.1.1

              ?? I'm surprised, genuinely, that you read into what I wrote something that is not actually there. It's a normal human reaction.

              • In Vino

                To be fair, Dennis, was there not a subtle implication rather than a direct statement?

                • Dennis Frank

                  Not even slightly. I was merely citing a trend I had noticed over the past 15 years or so, and using personal experience to validate it.

                  I didn't say I had joined that trend (I haven't) nor did I endorse it. Implications arise in the minds of readers sometimes when they jump to conclusions too quickly, and that appears to have happened in this instance.

                  As to why folks are trending back towards nature, and away from chemicals, you could argue that common sense is prevailing, eh?

    • Ad 5.2

      Ewwww!

    • Matiri 5.3

      Good article by Glen Herud about what/why they do all that stuff to milk.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/114578157/history-holds-simple-solutions-for-modern-problems

  6. Pat 6

    "Ethiopia’s minister of innovation and technology, Dr Getahun Mekuria, tweeted estimates of the number of trees planted throughout the day. By early evening on Monday, he put the number at 353m."
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/29/ethiopia-plants-250m-trees-in-a-day-to-help-tackle-climate-crisis

    Now id be somewhat dubious about the number but if true Ethiopia has just completed 1/3 of our 10 year tree planting programme in 1 day…..and probably at little financial cost.

    Note to Uncle Shane

    • bwaghorn 6.1

      Yip we have vast areas of tussock and mountains that could grow massive forests of conifers but oh no let's destroy rural communities and plant good farmland so rich people can fly round the world .

      • greywarshark 6.1.1

        bwaghorn

        Good rant. Actually selling individual farms at a profit to that individual farmer, to financiers who amalgamate them for dairy and overstock them, and employ overseas cheap labour has done the greatest harm to rural communities cohesiveness and friendly co-operation and services. Let's not just on the latest emerging gripe from farmers and blame it on the gummint or such.

        And individual farmers have somehow enabled attitudes to diminish to the extent that someone can go round shooting animals, burning down buildings and not get stopped by policing until he shot his relation. Would that have been the sort of rural community you are mourning about?

  7. Dennis Frank 7

    10 to 7 this morning Winston was in the AM studio & gave us quite a performance, did anyone else see it? As acting-PM. I can't claim to have followed all the rapid-fire dialogue but he sure kicked Colmar Brunton's arse all round the park.

    I wonder if they really do have a covert agenda, and have carefully designed the framing of their questions to produce a biased result as he implied. That thesis would get traction if a consistent pattern was evident over time. The discrepancy with recent National & Labour private polls is double the margin of error for National, so does seem suspect.

    • Rapunzel 7.1

      I saw him on Breakfast and likewise he had no patience for the "gotcha" traps the media try to set instead of the "issues" being discussed and them actually listening.

    • bwaghorn 7.2

      People will look back at this 3 years and be glad their was an old steady hand in the background. The youthful ideological labour greens would have flown to bits otherwise.

    • Anne 7.3

      That thesis would get traction if a consistent pattern was evident over time.

      It's been my observation over a number of years that the CB poll has been consistent in so far as it nearly always gives National a higher percentage rating than its equivalent polling companies – now down to only Reid Research.

  8. cleangreen 8

    Dennis at 7

    If that latest Colmar Brunton poll is repeated again when the next poll comes around Labour are in real trouble.

    This is clear now because the whole media ‘Newshusb, TV one and Radio NZ “National” are all controlled by the spin doctors of the National Party prbablly by Steven Joyce and John Key.

    We warned the new labour NZF Government to replace Clare Curren and put another Channel Seven public affairs channel up to sell the Government policy to the people.

    But Clare Curren sabotaged Jacinda and the new Government by not providing Government with their own media platform so the result is now obvious.

    Who wins the ‘media’ wins the ‘next Government’, and so far this Government are loosing.

    • Bearded Git 8.1

      @cleangreen: 43+6 means a Labour/Green government. Rather than "real trouble" it sounds perfect.

  9. mosa 9

    I wonder how long it will be before Jacinda realises she is missing out and becomes a stay at home mum ?

    Kelvin for PM ?

  10. ianmac 10

    Q&A last night. Jack Tane asked the right questions of the dreadful Simon Bridges about the Cancer plan. And he pushed Bridges to actually answer which made poor little Simon to get frantic. Jack is the first journalist that I have heard to actually address the issues. Well done Jack.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a

  11. Peter 11

    My empathy mode kicked in full this morning when I clicked onto the Herald. I could understand deep feelings of insecurity, loneliness and desperation on seeing Hosking's latest go at Jacinda Ardern. When mum left the room when I was about seven months old I'm sure I felt the same.

    Maybe the PM can add issues to do with desertion to the Mental Health basket. When she gets back from 'wandering around the Pacific.' Mike Hosking might be a good case study or used as an expert in the field.

  12. ankerawshark 12

    Lol Peter. I make a point of not reading Hoskings. Sounds like he was guilt tripping Jacinda about being a parent and being PM. What a low tactic….

    • greywarshark 13.1

      That poor bloke. Fancy having the footage and being able to see the set-up. He can be seen lying and the time is clearly shown. And at the end on the right hand side of the frame it appears someone else is down on the floor.

      People have been working to create better conditions in jails, to limit the number of people who go into them, and to work with the inmates so they can control their impulses and to try and instil some understanding of their own life difficulties, so they can feel empathy for themselves instead of trying to be tough all the time. Then they are on the way to be able to have some concern for others.

      But the ruling class like to emphasise the failures of the lower classes. If they fail themselves there is a case made for exceptional circumstances.

      Let us start with abolishing double bunking, and carefully controlled civilised treatment of prisoners. There must be concern for warders so they are safe but not having thuggish types. It would be hard to find that tough but fair sort.

      • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1

        That incident was in 2013 and Corrections is back to running Mt Eden…

        "and carefully controlled civilised treatment of prisoners. "

        The real problem (as I see it) is prisoners have far too many rights (and boy do they know them) but care nothing for responsibilities so the first thing I'd do is make prisoners earn their privileges eg you want a TV you earn the privilege of renting a tv by showing compliance and good behavior and if you damage a tv you don't get it back until you've both shown contrition and paid back the cost of the repair

        You want something to read same deal, same with the P119s, same with more than two showers a day, same with doing hobbies etc etc

        "There must be concern for warders so they are safe but not having thuggish types. It would be hard to find that tough but fair sort."

        Increase the Corrections budget so more staff can be hired, improve the working conditions (pay, overtime, rosters etc etc) and give more support (through the courts and media) and you'll get more people applying

  13. One Two 14

    Ethics Violations: CDC / Aarhus University

    CDC-Danish Coverup of Ethics Violations:

    The next day, the beginning of an ethical crisis began to take shape.

    Coleen Boyle, Marshalyn Yeargin-Allsopp and Diana Schendel participated in a Denmark Grantees Autism/CP conference call.

    Paul Thorsen participated and presumably helped bring the two new principal investigators up to speed.

    He was asked to provide Aarhus University a copy of all permissions in his files ASAP.

    Coleen commented that from what they had discussed, most of the activities were completed. Diana began discussing additional projects.

    Soren raised the issue of bringing the CP biomarker data to Aarhus for safekeeping.

    Then, there was a discussion about who had the various data and whether it could be gathered and secured all in one place.

    Diana and Poul were asked to provide historical context to this.

    The biggest concern the CDC-Danish colluders had that point was getting ethical coverage for Diana Schendel’s paper that was about to be published on autism and inflammatory markers.

    They decided to extend the permissions obtained by another researcher (Rikke Maimburg from Aarhus)to Diana because Rikke had been approved in 2000 for a study entitled ‘Obstetric factors and autism’.

    Their thinking was that since Diana’s study used mothers’ obstetric files, the 2000 Ethics Committee approval could be extended to her study (even though the committee never reviewed Schendel’s study design.)

    These acts were clearly not ethical.

    Thorsen failed to provide evidence post study that he had obtained ethical committee permissions for the bio and genetic markers and autism research.

    • The team eventually determined no requests had ever been submitted.

    By all appearances, they determined that studies related to the two papers, already published, were done without legally-required ethical approval.

  14. greywarshark 15

    Sounds a bit Brave New World approach to me. And also how people might be when we are discouraged from 'breeding'. Because being really committed and being together as a permanent couple with legal obligations goes with accepting the parental role, when it makes sense to indicate the acceptance of that responsibility publically and legally.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018706096/mandy-len-catron-what-you-lose-when-you-gain-a-spouse

  15. greywarshark 16

    People brought up in the ways of monetising everything as in neo lib, have trouble getting excited about a tree trunk if there is money to be made for someone. The Labour Coalition would have to introduce new legislation to ban exports to keep our unique kauri here I think.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395522/sculptor-says-art-work-exported-to-china-looks-like-giant-log

  16. Drowsy M. Kram 17

    Not enough lucrative ‘opportunities’ for MPs in opposition?

    National party MPs who (a) left parliament at the last election, (b) left parliament after the last election, or (c) have announced that they will leave parliament at the next election.

    1. Barclay*
    2. Borrows
    3. Foss
    4. Foster-Bell
    5. Goodhew
    6. Lotu-liga
    7. McCully
    8. Naylor
    9. Parata
    10. Tisch
    11. Williamson
    12. English
    13. Coleman
    14. Joyce
    15. Finlayson
    16. Korako
    17. Scott
    18. Adams
    19. Guy

    * https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98382581/how-the-todd-barclay-story-got-here

    • cleangreen 17.1

      Well done Drowsy M Kram, 100%

      Excellent list you produced.

    • Fireblade 17.2

      Yep. Another rat jumps ship. Nathan Guy was full of shit and useless anyway. Maybe Simon just told him to fuck off.

      The National Party team will be full of inexperienced novices by 2020. Most of their tallent has already gone. I doubt they could run a Maccas drive through these days.

  17. mosa 18

    Mid week Democratic debates kick off with Biden hoping to improve from last time.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/29/opinion/democratic-debate.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

  18. greywarshark 19

    The Chairman, Northland Regional Council, took the casting vote for allowing genetic engineering even though public submissions were 82-1 against.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12251870

    23 July 2019
    Northland Age by editor Peter Jackson
    "Flawed Northland Regional Council decision bound for court"

    Northland Regional Council chairman Bill Shepherd's use of his casting vote to break a 4-4 deadlock over the issue of whether or not to include provisions for the management of genetically modified organisms in the council's proposed regional plan has outraged critics of the technology, who have vowed to fight it in court.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018706360/genetic-modification-northland-council-chair-defends-stance

    (It is necessary to ensure that people have the training and wisdom to handle power roles these days. Decisions over matters of science, with large unknown factors and worrying known ones, should not be made by someone who is merely known in the area, has knowledge of farming practices and management, pays his bills on time, and likes a drink with the rugby club after the game. The time to recognise that many have reached beyond their level of understanding and are heading the glass ceiling of The Peter Principle, is now so change can be made within say, two years to something better.)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11149980
    Mr Shepherd, 68, is a dairy farmer and company director from Purua.
    The chairman's role carries a remuneration package of $106,650, which includes a vehicle. The deputy chairman is paid $73,780 and councillors a base salary of $52,700.

    Background: http://web.gefreenorthland.org.nz/

  19. A 20

    Great piece, actually well balance on Pania Newton #Ihumātao gives concise history.

    Now we need a story on who these guys are

    Te Warena Taua, who chairs both the Makaurau Marae Trust and Te Kawerau ā Maki Tribal Authority, has been openly dismissive, questioning her legitimacy and status.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12254056

  20. joe90 21

    Irish bookie:

    UK Government to officially announce food rationing in 2019 – 12/1

    https://www.paddypower.com/politics/uk-brexit

  21. Dennis Frank 22

    Dinosaur bites the dust: "Nathan Guy has announced he will not be seeking re-election next year." https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12254079

    "I advocated hard for water-storage projects and helped secure funding for a variety of projects including Central Plains stages one and two."

  22. greywarshark 23

    On the idea of an attack on Iran. Chris Trotter looks at historic dates and reasons.

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/07/another-war-with-iran.html

    Remember, these were invasions of Iran – not by Iran. As strategic analyst, Dr Paul Buchanan, observes:

    “[I]t should be remembered that modern Iran has not engaged in an unprovoked attack on another country. Although it supports and uses irregular military proxies, it is nowhere close to being the sponsor of terrorism that several Sunni Arab petroleum oligarchies are. In spite of its anti-Israel rhetoric (destined for domestic political consumption), it has not fired a shot in anger towards it.”…

    The Americans are not daunted. When it comes to the Middle East (and its oil) the behaviour of the United States can only be described as unhinged. When Saddam dared to act independently of the US, the debt America owed his country, for its costly – and ultimately futile – war against its Iranian neighbour, was forgotten in a heartbeat.

    And it wasn’t just Saddam who paid dearly for his failure to comprehend the full extent of America’s derangement. When US Secretary of State, Madeline Albright, was asked by CBS’s Lesley Stahl: “We have heard that half a million [Iraqi] children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” Albright replied: “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.”

  23. greywarshark 24

    NZ academic giving lecture in August: Professor Robert H Wade
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/07/30/the-democratic-cost-of-inequality-university-of-auckland/

    We worry about poverty, he says, but we should be as concerned about inequality. “Concentrated wealth could undermine our entire political system”.

    “There needs to be a register of global wealth to bring more money into the tax system for redistribution. Governments should also be assessing all policies by their effect on inequality,” he says.

    Business School public lecture
    Monday 12 August
    Professor Robert H. Wade: “Why the ‘Trump era’ could last for 30 years.”
    6-8pm
    University of Auckland
    12 Grafton Road.

    Register at https://nvite.com/universityofauckland/e76de

    Notes: Professor Robert H. Wade was educated at Wellington College, University of Otago, Victoria University of Wellington, and the Institute of Development Studies at the University of Sussex. He has worked at the Institute of Development Studies, the World Bank, Woodrow Wilson School (Princeton University), MIT Sloan School and Brown University.

  24. greywarshark 25

    I put in a submission on the Zero Carbon Bill and have got 22 confirmations for it one after the other.

  25. mosa 26

    Good riddance to Nathan Guy he was one of the WORST examples of the last corrupt National government.

    Under his watch Mycoplasma Bovis was spread through a large part of our livestock and caused irreparable damage to the rural community but the farmers ( god bless them ) still support and VOTE this type of incompetence !!!

    He stood for nothing and never intervened in the worst cases of rural animal cruelty , and cruelty to the under class of this country by the policies he supported.

    But that’s ok he is a top kiwi bloke.

    He will no doubt end up in a cushy council job or similar job in the private sector.

    One of the worst examples of the National and the people who vote for and support this party.

  26. greywarshark 27

    A good practical piece from Greenpeace about Federated Farmers and how ineffectual and irresponsible they are. I think you might find it says what the true situation is bwaghorn?

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/07/30/feds-must-stop-kicking-farmers-greenpeace/

  27. greywarshark 28

    I feel that someone who does this hates him or her self. I think they should be operated on to prevent further children. Also have talking sessions so they can get out what is in their minds and see if they can turn around. Something needs to be done with them.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12044444 EXCLUSIVE: Dad of murdered baby Jyniah Te Awa jailed over years of abuse 9/5/2018

    Jyniah was left in a closed freezer, hung on the back of a wardrobe door, held against a gas heater, swung around by her short hair and hung on a clothesline.

    Her fatal head injury was the result of being kicked, thrown against a wall, shaken and smothered.

    Her babysitter Tiana Mary-Anne Odessa Kapea – a relative and close friend of Te Awa – pleaded guilty to murdering the baby and was sentenced to life in prison.

    SaveNZ put this up on The Daily Blog O/M

  28. ianmac 29

    National's Todd Muller will take over outgoing Otaki MP Nathan Guy's primary industry focused portfolios and loses his climate change responsibilities.

    So that is how National gets away with sinking an annoying voice of reason?

  29. Eco maori 30

    Kia kaha students who strike for the preservation of your I Am living off the grid now to minimize Eco Maori carbon footprint.

    Tell me again how the school climate strike was 'just a day of your future climate. I am

    OPINION: Hi, it's a student here. Yes, one of those students. One of the students that cares about climate change and is all for a strike that will be taking place this Friday. Now that being a student who also cares about the environment is somehow considered a controversial stance, let me explain my point of view.

    The way I see it, older generations don't seem to care about the environment, mainly because by the time the consequences of their actions come about, they'll already be six feet under. Pretty easy life, right? I don't blame them. What's the point of changing anything when it won't affect you, right

    Well, I, and everyone else my age, don't get that luxury. We're the ones that are going to have to deal with the consequences. Your children, your grandchildren, and possibly, if the planet is still around, your great-grandchildren. We're going to have to deal with fossil fuels heating up the planet, polluted oceans filled with millions of tonnes of dumped plastic congregating into literal islands of trash, the ice caps melting and a raising the sea level. We're going to to be the ones left with the mess we had little part in creating ka kite ano links below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/111239644/high-school-student-explains-school-strike-4-climate-nz-to-her-elders?rm=a

    • greywarshark 30.1

      Maori and the youth can do lots. Once you get older and start thinking about having a partner and then children, it is harder to go after changing stuff, your time is split up between your various duties and interests. Maori have been splitting themselves for a long time, its been hard but they have persevered and had great leaders to inspire them also. Good for you and us, belatedly stirring ourselves.

  30. Eco maori 31

    Eco Maori thanks Rod Schoonover for making a stand against te climate change deniering fools

    White House ‘undercutting evidence' of climate crisis, says analyst who resigned

    Rod Schoonover, who was an intelligence analyst for 10 years, said the Trump administration halted his report on global heating

    A former senior government analyst has accused the Trump administration of “undercutting evidence” of the threat to national security from the climate crisisafter his report on the issue was blocked by the White House.

    Rod Schoonover, who worked as an intelligence analyst for the federal government for 10 years before resigning earlier this month, submitted a written testimony on the “wide-ranging implications” of global heating over the next 20 years, for submission to the House intelligence committee last month.

    'People are dying': how the climate crisis has sparked an exodus to the US

    But he said on Tuesday that the report was stopped by the White House because his findings “did not comport with administration’s position on climate change”.

    That prompted him to leave his post – one of a stream of scientists sidelined or forced out over what critics of the Trump administration characterize as a war on science, because warnings for the dangers of human-caused global heating conflict with the Donald Trump’s industrial objectives. Ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/30/rod-schoonover-trump-administration-undercutting-climate-crisis-national-security

  31. Eco maori 32

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    I agree with Ming Foon tamariki should be able to walk to school safely.

    Problems liveing off grid the power system went do but Eco Maori has been out cutting wood all day can you guess who could be tampering with my solar powered system the sandflys.

    Ka kite ano

  32. Eco maori 33

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Its quirky that my solar system plays up when im not home but is charging my battery and running my TV's system with low light the sandflys are turning on my electric and disableing my solar system when im away.

    The Fire in Russia is not good for the Papatuanuku Economy Lloyd.

    My devices are being tampered with to someone tried to rip the back off my ph .

    Duncan I see you changed the color of your underwear once again blue ain't your color.

    Ka kite ano P.S last day tomorrow and weekend off a guys

  33. Eco maori 34

    Eco Maori watched the last hour of the Am Show but I had my ph on low power so my words got wiped out every time the screen went blank

  34. Eco maori 35

    Here you go Whanau successive Governments have not invested enough money in The East Cape region for 30 years once we had the economy that was the backbone of Aotearoa that was in the 50s to the 80s .

    People always talk about North Land having it tough but Te taiwhiti has a lack of basic services Eco Maori see what they are up to trying to suppress Ngati Porou Mana Yea Right they will never succeed.

    The East Cape is one of the most remote regions in New Zealand.

    Corrina Parata is the only midwife for 200kilometres along this rugged coastline, delivering the first babies in the world in heartland Ngāti Porou territory.

    She might be the last ka kite ano link below.

    https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2019/08/last-midwife-east-coast-maori-te-puia-springs/

  35. Eco maori 36

    Whanau The Sandflys are swarming marked cop cars everywhere don't they have real criminals to find but Eco Maori has the skills to counteract their bullies bullshit Thanks for the MANA

  36. Eco maori 37

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    So because 1 persons dies and Mark Mitchell wants to lock up more Maori because of his ancient values and views on Weed isn't he a x cop and a contractor for the cops for years Eco Maori say throw his views into the history books.

    The road spikes left on a road by the cops You see Whanau they are not perfect as they try a portray but suppressing most bad things they do it's a illusion. More proof the gun lobbyists issues.

    I think it's a great Idea to have a council watch dog as there are to many issues with our water and other services that should be provided by the councils

    That would be awesome having a tax on fatty and sugary foods and drinks. Thanks for that study that provides that a tax on those foods will work. Ma te Wa.

    That's not on trading Moar bones can be legally traded extinct animals parts

    Ingrid its cold in Hawksbay but not as cold as so were trying to spin

    Ka kite ano

    • Eco maori 37.1

      Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

      I think the Water service bill is needed to make sure our taonga wai still has a healthy environment forever .

      There was a gas station stunt bp giving away free gas looks like it made a lot of people happy.

      Its awesome to see that Our Coalition Governments and the Provincial growth fund is investing more money in Te taiwhiti roads they are bad one can easily notice the difference from the reads in Opotiki they are good roads but once you go through the gorge the roads are bad Eco Maori gives thanks for that.

      It is hard to sorte out bad students Eco Maori feels for the teachers who have to attend to mischief tamariki its worst with the anti smacking bill that has just created a lot of tamariki who have respect for no one they don't even know the meaning of the words Eco Maori solar system is going great
      Its Its awesome that the Hawaiians have been given some respect from the ruling class in Hawaii kia kaha Eco Maori tau toko you

      Ka kite ano

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