Open mike 30/08/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 30th, 2020 - 204 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

204 comments on “Open mike 30/08/2020 ”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    The weather's a little ragged here today, but there's a new cafe in the village – Jacob's Rivery Bakery, and it's wonderful; excellent coffee, vegetarian/vegan'organic food – I especially like the jackfruit "sausage" roll; the staff are super-friendly, vibrant young people, all of whom live in the village and locals have taken to meeting there; by design or accident, for all sorts of impromptu discussions and debates, celebrations and retreats from ordinary life. The decor is "plants", to my eye at least; there are dozens of glossy, well-cared-for pot plants on shelves and stands throughout the cafe, and I feel at home amongst them. The building is the historic post office with postmasters living quarters upstairs. The enormous clock that used to be fixed high on the wall on the street-face of the building sits in the local museum now; I wish they'd put it back up! If ever you are in Riverton, stop off there for a good time, before walking two stores to the north, where you'll discover the Riverton Environment Centre and everything on offer there, including a yarn with one of the volunteers there, a bearded chap who's willing to die in a ditch for the Green Party smiley

    • RedLogix 1.1

      A wonderful picture you paint Robert. We live in turbulent times and we should treasure those oasis of order and grace we do have.

      One day we will get back home and I'll make a point of visiting Riverton. An old friend of mine once said, tongue in cheek, "New Zealand gets more civilised the further south you go. Somewhere around Mossburn it comes good."

      Also you may enjoy this story.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424742/lessons-people-can-learn-from-covid-19-lockdown-live-more-lightly-on-the-planet

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

        I hope you will, RedLogix. I'll buy you coffee and introduce you to the native people of the area smiley

      • halfcrown 1.1.2

        " An old friend of mine once said, tongue in cheek, "New Zealand gets more civilised the further south you go. Somewhere around Mossburn it comes good."

        Agree with that 200% How bloody true that is.

        • Andre 1.1.2.1

          Late last year I was in that area for the first time in quite a while. I was pleasantly surprised to find good pies in Gore. Because I've heard so much about cheese rolls, I had to try them too. All I can say is, what is wrong with people?

    • swordfish 1.2

      .

      a bearded chap who's willing to die in a ditch for the Green Party

      Which is more than you can say for the people of Riverton.

      Greens took 18 out of 795 total Party-Votes in 2017.

      Just be mindful, Robert, Greenies have occasionally been burned as witches in Southland over recent decades. That's after they throw you in the river to see if you float.

      • Robert Guyton 1.2.1

        Swordfish – I have, though not a witch per se, been singed many times in the past and had my buoyancy tested on more than one occasion by the good burghers of Riverton. Most recently, a minor kerfuffle over some painted-kindling caused crook'd fingers to be pointed toward the ditch-witch in his forest-garden, but that blew over with the first salt-laden sou'wester; I've weathered many squalls such as that, and expect to face more as the mood of the nation deteriorates along with the water quality, and the Federated Farmers find their muddy feet and big-laryxned voices again. Par for the course, for a provocative shaggy greenie who likes to string words together for effect.

    • Whispering Kate 1.3

      Hi Robert. I have posted you in the past of our resident cock blackbird. He has a damaged foot which has bent in on itself. He manages very good and is looking splendid. I am wondering if you know how long these house wild birds survive in their natural environment. We call him pegleg because of his gammy way of walking. Over the seasons he has mated and reared many clutches of chicks in nests in and around our garden. He is very tame and will come when we call and all of our garden birds are fed every other day with fruit and wildbird seed mixed with wholemeal breadcrumbs and fat mixed. Pegleg is at least seven years old now and considering he was fledged in our garden and we never thought he would survive but he finally got airborne and the rest is history!! Is seven a good age for a blackbird in the wild. He looks as glossy and handsome as ever and is nest building with a mate right now.

      I would be interested in your knowledge of longevity in blackbirds in the wild.

      • Robert Guyton 1.3.2

        Oh hi, Whispering Kate – I remember well your blackbird posts and am pleased to hear your male bird is so well. The number 20 popped into my head when I read your question about longevity, but I think that individual might have been coddled (as yours are being by the sound of it smiley I can't really say then, as I read that some only attain 3 or 4 years before they make way for others of their kind. Ours seem to hang around for yonks, but I haven't kept a record. The several that centre their attentions on my garden especially love the worm-farm, not for the worms, but to intervene in their feeding by helping themselves to porridge-left-overs, sweet corn, home-made bread crusts and so on. I hope you get to enjoy your birds for a long time to come!

        • Whispering Kate 1.3.2.1

          Thank you Robert. Yes we love our birds. Tui, fantails, kereru wax eyes and then all the blackies, thrushes starlings you name it. They make such a mess in the garden but then they give us such a lot of fun. They love our bird baths, tui dive bomb into them and the starlings bring the entire family – seven sometimes all in the bath together. Twenty sounds amazing and yes our birds are spoiled so who knows how long pegleg will survive considering his gammy leg.

  2. Ad 2

    I like Bernie Sanders a whole lot more now that he's fully put his shoulder to electing Joe Biden for President.

    As well as his old policy and comms teams pushing the Biden team a long way into their platforms, anders himself is putting his considerable support base out there with new speeches:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/29/politics/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-voting/index.html

    The panel events, Sanders' team said, have racked up more than 850,000 views in all, for an average that exceeds 200,000.

    With the Trump Republicans attacking the very voting process by actively sabotaging the Post Office, Sanders' motivational energy is going to be critical to replacing the current US regime.

    • RedLogix 2.1

      Well that is a welcome spark of good news. Because so far while Biden is clearly the more worthwhile candidate, he's not winning, just like Clinton wasn't winning in 2016.

      In normal times you'd have to think the village idiot could beat someone as clearly unsuited to the job as Trump. Yet the fact that the Democrats are not 30 pts ahead and utterly unbeatable right now rings a big fat alarm bell in my mind.

      The Democrats always have the real problem that their voter bases is highly diverse, with often conflicting interests. It usually takes an eloquent and charismatic candidate to unify them, and this Biden ain't. If Sanders can help bridge this deficit and build some real unity in the Democrat base, it may just tip the balance.

    • Andre 2.2

      It's hard to guess how much effect that will have on his base compared to 2016.

      There's a solid component of his base that are middle-finger voters attracted by the idea that Bernie was going to stick it to the establishment. They will think Bernie going in to bat for Biden is selling out and they either won't vote or do a burn-it-down vote for Donasaurus Wrecks.

      But if he can bring back to Biden a significant chunk of those that peeled off for Stein (or Johnson) or got taken in by the smears against Clinton and just didn't vote, then he'll have done a solid for the US and the rest of the world.

      • Ad 2.2.1

        Sanders and team are being a lot more cooperative towards Biden than they were with HRC at this point. And people like OAC get that they can both reform the Democratic party AND back Biden against Trump.

        It will take all of Sanders' base and all progressive others to vote, if they are to overcome the electorate border gerrymandering, Fox news dominance, and active polling place discouragement to change this government.

        • AB 2.2.1.1

          "It will take all of Sanders' base and all progressive others to vote …"

          Nice setup – that makes it pretty clear who will be blamed if Biden falls short.

        • Adrian Thornton 2.2.1.2

          @Ad, "And people like OAC get that they can both reform the Democratic party" she (and you) must be completely deluded, the DNC would rather eat their own babies than offer anything to the progressive wing of that party…that is why they pretty much said (talking in political optics here) shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down, by not inviting her to even speak at the DNC convention…not sure why you can't just admit the DNC is 100% brought and paid for by corporate USA.

          But then this shouldn't surprise me whatsoever, I seem to remember you are one of the liberals who think the FBI are now friends of the left, and seriously, you can't get much more delusional than that.

    • AB 2.3

      "I like Bernie Sanders a whole lot more now .."

      What was there to dislike previously? Apart from the tendency to give the same speech over and over. Plus the damaging mis-characterisation of himself as a 'socialist', instead of a mainstream social democrat reaching back to the true values of America's past?

      • Andre 2.3.1

        Uhh, a complete absence of any legislative success of any difficulty or significance, beyond leveraging his vote to get a few nickel-and-dime amendments. Which appears to be related to an apparent inability to compromise or showing any other coalition-building skills.

  3. Andre 3

    The short-fingered vulgarian still using songs after their creators told his team "NO". This time it's Cohen's "Hallelujah". They should have asked for "You Want It Darker". Probably they should also have tried to understand the meaning of "Hallelujah" rather than just assuming it was some kind of religiously fervid praise.

    https://www.salon.com/2020/08/28/leonard-cohens-reps-say-they-specifically-declined-gop-requests-to-use-hallelujah-at-convention_partner/

  4. Don't know if anyone else has posted this but supposedly Labour’s internal polling shows Chloe ahead in Auckland Central. And I don’t call 9% a “marginal lead”.

    Greens 33 Labour 24 Nats 22

    https://twitter.com/polite_lad/status/1299537253123854336?fbclid=IwAR3Tdp0GtnvAI1ZLbrdObZb6RkPuTsxrFbDa1TJNyvlAc4oS1K6gqjIlHow

  5. Peter 5

    Cohen's song? Rules?

    There is only one rule – 'I'll do what I want. You don't like it? Take me to court. By the time my second term is coming to an end the hearings will just about be done. If some pardons and commutation of sentences need to be done, so be it.'

  6. Dennis Frank 6

    A couple of educators share their ponderings on the purpose of education in relation to current social context: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/pandemic-shifts-some-education-myths

    What is called for in a world after Covid-19 is a new educational purpose – one that reconnects thinking around environmental wellbeing, social health and economic fairness. There have been many voices calling for change, for the world to be resetwe cannot go back to how things were. Does education need a reset?

    No, it needs a revision. The system needs to be made fit for purpose in the ever-changing world we're in. Lange faked that with Tomorrow's Schools in the '80s, but we know not to trust Labour promises.

    We are told that if we send our children to school it will help them get a worthwhile job and have a stable and affluent life; that it will help their self-advancement, help them ‘get ahead’. The myth of education as a commodity to be accumulated is widely accepted.

    Mythos is powerful in mass psychology, and when combined with bureaucracy it created an education system with awe-inspiring inertia. Guaranteed to defeat progress. Which is why the system never entered the 20th century.

    When I passed thro it in the 1950s/60s it was clearly archaic but effective in mass-producing crap (such as mainstreamers, Nat/Lab voters). I encountered Summerhill in 1970 when it was a hot trend & that crystallised my feelings about how education ought to be done – but nowadays the necessity for real progress is more urgent.

    we concentrate on the personal; we now find ourselves part of a worldwide phenomenon. Our connection to global economic movements is suddenly more apparent. We have seen millions of people lose their livelihoods in a week, yet we have learned that previously unthinkable legislation to support those in need can be passed easily.

    Suitable leadership can still get the right results fast, and Labour deserves credit for proving that point currently. If only it realised that the same cut-through must be applied to the national curriculum! But connecting the dots is so hard for some. 🙄

    We have learnt that the encroachment by people on natural environments causes stresses that lead to the increasingly frequent transmission of zoonotic viruses. At least six viruses have transferred to humans since 2000; more are likely on the way.

    Consumption of nature producing pandemics is gnosis too deep for most people to learn, I suspect: the causal relations are opaque unless you happen to be a microbiologist. Capitalists working with third-world govts will produce pandemics unless a greater force stops them. Business as usual.

    the economic system, focused on short-term gain, is disconnected from its impacts on people and on the environment; and human misuse of the natural environment leads to a fundamental and dangerous disconnection with the symbiotic relationship between humanity and nature.

    The control system has a predatory relationship to nature though, and it determines the future via representative democracy. Kids must learn how to collectively defeat the left & right puppets the system uses. It's the only way to escape becoming victims. Therefore an education system fit for the purpose of human survival must be both radical and beyond left and right.

  7. joe90 7

    What's your arsehole score?

    ( 1.49 )

    Over 100 years ago Charles Spearman made two monumental discoveries about human intelligence. First, a general factor of intelligence (g) exists: people who score high on one test of intelligence also tend to score high on other tests of intelligence. Second, Spearman found that the g-factor conforms to the principle of the "indifference of the indicator": It doesn't matter what test of intelligence you administer; as long as the intelligence test is sufficiently cognitively complex and has enough items, you can reliably and validly measure a person's general cognitive ability.

    Fast forward to 2018, and a new paper suggests that the very same principle may not only apply to human cognitive abilities, but also to human malevolence. New research conducted by a team from Germany and Denmark suggests that a General Dark Factor of Personality (D-factor) exists among the human population, and that this factor conforms to the principle of indifference of the indicator. This is big news, so let's take a look.

    […]

    Note: The Dark Core Scale was adapted from the larger test battery. I selected the items on an ad-hoc basis for entertainment purposes, but I do not recommend using the scale to make any sort of diagnosis. For more on the D-factor, go to http://www.darkfactor.org. To take the self-assessment created by the researchers of the dark factor study, go to: http://qst.darkfactor.org.

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-dark-core-of-personality/

    • Gabby 7.1

      My dork factor is sky high.

    • Cinny 7.2

      Miss 15's arsehole rating was off the charts the other day. But she's good now lololz 🙂 Teenagers, dang, it's almost like they can think for themselves 🙂 🙂

  8. Andre 8

    Now that significant volumes of end-of-life lithium batteries are becoming a thing, here's a brief look at ventures underway to recycle and recover value from that resource. Featuring JB Straubel, one of Tesla's founders, so it's about real life rather than just lab demonstration possibilities.

    https://insideevs.com/features/441524/tesla-jb-straubel-future-battery-recycling/

  9. joe90 9

    More daily cases than the days leading up to 14/5 when we last entered L2 but Auckland's all set to go to level 2?

    • Andre 9.1

      It's not the numbers that scare me. It's that sometimes new cases are still being reported as "under investigation". That suggests to me that new transmissions are still going outside the circles of contacts the contact tracers are finding out about. So I struggle with the idea that the outbreak is "contained".

      People better be fkn careful and conscientious about masks and distancing and other transmission-reducing behaviour or we're gonna be back into level 3 or 4 in no time. And maybe not just Dorkland, either.

      • Ad 9.1.1

        NZGovernment have just put out a request for ALL people in South and West Auckland to take the test.

        Andre your closest one is in the New Lynn carpark next to the New Lynn Medical Centre.

        Chop chop

      • Ed 9.1.2

        Professor Shaun Hendy on the point you make.

        “If we can’t immediately link these cases to the main cluster then it is very likely we have undetected active cases in the community and once we go to Level 2, spread could kick off again.

        • mauī 9.1.2.1

          Thank you Ed, superb comment from Hendy there and wonderful of you to highlight it.

      • peterh 9.1.3

        Every under investigation has been changed within a couple of days to the cluster ,just this morning minister of health statement we are going to level2, we know where all the positive have come from, almost all from in isolation

        • Andre 9.1.3.1

          That just means that after the fact they have been able to trace it the path back to where it came from. Not that they have determined a reasonably reliable boundary around the risk.

    • Ed 9.2

      There was an excellent comment on the Standard yesterday by SPC. SPC's post referenced two studies about how children spread the virus.

      link: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-29-08-2020/#comment-1746287

      Professor Shaun Hendy has asked the Government to reconsider the planned move down to Covid alert level 2.

      Professor Michael Baker was on RNZ this morning, calling for the wearing of masks by everyone at secondary schools. He is emphatic on the issue.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018761759/covid-19-update-with-professor-michael-baker

      • weka 9.2.1

        to do an internal link on TS you either need to put the link in a direct line with some text, or you need to use the link tags. I've fixed your comment as it was linking to the post rather than comment (this is the default if the link is put in a line of its own without tags).

      • SPC 9.2.2

        They should have delayed opening schools to Wednesday (3 week lockdown minimum – given new information that children retain viral load for 3 weeks).

        That allows planning for social distancing at 2.5 and for people to sort out masks (which should be compulsory for children in schools, on school buses and indoor workers and in street queues).

        2.5 for mine should include temperature testing for entry to buildings. And expectation people work from home if they can.

        I suspect they eased back down a little early because Mof H bungled planning for a regional lockdown by not having pre granted exemptions for business activity.

        If they were influenced by the plight of hospitality business and the looming election they had better hope General Luck is back on duty.

        Because going back to Level 3 in Auckland, and to 2.5 for the rest if this spreads, will put an end to the Oct 17 election date.

        • Incognito 9.2.2.1

          They’re between a rock and a hard place (i.e. damned either way). I believe the (health) risk is higher than last time we came out of L3 and we need more luck this time.

    • Stuart Munro 9.3

      Looks like fatigue to me. The government has been ground down by the brute stupidity of media. A win for the virus. Bring out your dead.

      • Janet 9.3.1

        My feelings too. They are walking a tight rope I know, but better to follow through in the way they started , and I think tomorrow is too soon.

      • Pat 9.3.2

        certainly appears so

      • weka 9.3.3

        yep. Also the economic pressures and Labour being largely unprepared for how to deal with this once the neoliberal model fails.

        • weka 9.3.3.1

          and, impending election.

        • Stuart Munro 9.3.3.2

          I think they have been too accommodating of media. The Covid updates are a public health announcement – they should not have been contestable, any more than military announcements would have been in time of war.

          The place for the kind of malign aggression media displayed, aside from lonely exile on the Auckland or Bounty Islands, was in regular press conferences, not queering the compliance pitch of an emergency public health announcement.

          If, as I fear, we develop a growing outbreak in the wake of relaxing restrictions, it should called the “Morrah/O’Brian” outbreak, in honour of its sponsors.

          • weka 9.3.3.2.1

            that's a really good idea about separating out the public health announcements and the press conferences. Do the first, have break and do the rest a bit later. Gives people time to settle down too.

      • RedBaronCV 9.3.4

        yep too soon for me too. At least they could go "no inter regional travel" out of Auckland and maybe the Waikato. South of Taupo seems to be okay.

        But if people don't believe it has been beaten then they will stay home as much as possible anyway. So they won't be out spending money. So we will still have a lot of the economic impact plus the potential virus spread as well.

        I'm outside Auckland and it has been very quiet although with no local cases people are starting to go out again. I'll be cutting back outings again from tomorrow. If they kept Auckland in I’d slope off for some skiing

        Given that cheaper testing (spit on paper stuff is coming) this might be the last really major lockdown that we would need.

        • weka 9.3.4.1

          My worry now is that Aucklanders will bring the virus south, but I haven't been following closely enough to know what the risk is.

  10. joe90 11

    Here's the right's latest poster boy for toxic masculinity cleaning up graffiti and here he is sucker-punching a young woman.

  11. Dennis Frank 12

    Ace ponticator Shane Jones out-performs Trump:

    Jones said Robertson was the Matua as Finance Minister and stood call the Government didn't intend on doing a U-turn on the funding https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12360593

    Experts in linguistic analysis will be studying this statement for decades to come, I suspect. University theses may even be written on what "stood call the Government didn't intend on doing" actually means.

    Jones may complain that a Herald journo mangled what he really said in the interests of postmodernism – but methinks such false modesty from the hat won't persuade many.

    • Sabine 12.1

      That is the thing tho, this school is not going to harm anyone but the Greens, why? Only the Greens had a standing policy for over 9 years to not fund private schools – no matter how green washed the 'building' will be. Jones is dong what he always does, Labour can simply wash their hands in innocence, in the meantime the Green Party is getting not much love from many – other then here…. and i don't think that will be enough.

      If i were any more cynical then i am i would suggest that the Green Co Party leader was set up to fail and he rant straight into this. But surely the Co Party leader of the Green would not be so stupid after several years now in Parliament. One would hope.

      • Dennis Frank 12.1.1

        Nobody onsite here has suggested what ought to have happened instead. That collective failure demonstrates the inadequacy of all sideline commentators. They persist in not factoring in budget decision-making constraints that closed off options for James. The primary one being the pressure of GR's schedule!

        Imagine the shitfight which would have erupted if he had rejected that line item: "Green Party rejects funding for Green School! Labour & NZF approved the funding!"

        Experts in the psychology of brands wheeled out in the media would declare that the Green brand had been reduced to ideological twaddle by the Greens. Spokespeople for the Green movement would point out that rabid leftists were outnumbered by around a hundred to one in the movement. Since I joined it in 1968 that's always been evident.

        So it's clear that the GP has dodged a bullet that may have proved fatal. I predict negative consequences will be minimal. Even leftists have to get real eventually…

        • Robert Guyton 12.1.1.1

          Zakly!

        • weka 12.1.1.2

          Imagine the shitfight which would have erupted if he had rejected that line item: "Green Party rejects funding for Green School! Labour & NZF approved the funding!"

          Yep, but that would have been a minor storm dealt with by using the focus to highlight the Greens' education policy. Also, if there were one or two thousand applications for the fund, I doubt that turning down this one would have been a big deal. Plenty of others to choose from.

          I do think both sides are essentially right here. The problem is that approving the Green School needed a different process, eg one whereby the school was asked to meet certain conditions around funding that were more aligned with GP values.

        • Sabine 12.1.1.3

          Again, what are you taking umbrage with? that i say outright that Shane Jones is Shane Jones and wont be anything else ever and he is not even worth discussing?

          I am simply over the constant whinging by people here about this party that is not doing shit, that party not doing shit, while the government is good enough to fuck up on their own.

          The school is literally just the another drop bringing the bucket to overflow. People losing their jobs, they are locked in their homes, they are told to be fearful of the unseen enemy and National cause Judith will be worse and then this dumb ass blunder by someone who should now better. – nothing i did. Sorry mate.

          Us people here in no where land that are not rabidly partisan or super loyal partisan we vote every three years and only get to hope that it 'will get better' and chances are it will not. It never does.

          So we look at the parties and their principles and hope to find something that works for us and vote for that then.

          We have been educated on this site so many times about what the Green Party can do or can not do it ain't even funny anymore, and btw, often times it is literally just condescending, cause we can read, and we do read, and sometimes we even vote for them, or Labour. Cause not as bad as the other option.

          I already have given him the benefit of the doubt. But you don't get to whine about Shane Jones saying its gonna go forward, and not also lay the blame at the feet of the others Parties involved.

          Also, last but least, If the Greens would not have a standing policy of 9 years to not fund private schools – and providing money to build one – 'for the construction only' – is still providing money to a private school, non of this brouhaha would have happened and frankly that is the matter at hand. What in the name of a pandemic will be next on the 'nice to have but not needed anymore policy ' on the chopping block. And this is not a question only to be laid at the feet of the Green Party but also includes Labour and NZ First.

          At the end of the day, people like me will go to the polls, hold their nose and put a cross under the name of the person they find the least offensive. Not the person who has a good program for the future but the least offensive – because non of the clowns in government actually have a plan for us living on the margins of society. And the Greens now fall into this category, because if this policy is no more valid, then what next.

          And if you don't want to discuss this anymore i suggest you don't post links complaining about Shane Jones who says this will go forward. The Greens – thanks to their Co-Leader – happy or not about it – are Co-responsible for it, as James could have said this should not be included, but he did not. And they now need to shoulder this responsibility.

        • McFlock 12.1.1.4

          Nobody onsite here has suggested what ought to have happened instead.

          Really? Sorry, I thought I had.

          What ought to have happened was that this school submitted their application and had it stand on its own merits without the Green Party lobbying for it:

          “Ultimately that was something the Green Party advocated quite strongly for and so it was one of their wins out of the shovel-ready project area,” Hipkins said.

          He said the Green School project was “not necessarily a project I would have prioritised”.

          So according to Hipkins, this wasn't a project that Shaw was merely put in the awkward position of announcing – Shaw explicitly requested it.

          So my suggestion of what ought to have happened instead is that Shaw, or whomever in the Greens, had shut the fuck up about this private school in whatever meetings the subject occurred.

          Clear?

          • Dennis Frank 12.1.1.4.1

            Shaw explicitly requested it

            Hipkins didn't say he did. Nor has anyone else, except you. Since James specified that he was approving it on the Labour/NZF basis of regional infrastructure development, we can't blame him personally for any Green lobbying that may have been done earlier.

            You could be right, but I didn't hear him refer to such lobbying on the Zoom call, so I'll wait & see if anyone else did!

            Anyway, I was referring to the other options James may have had at the point in the process where he was faced with an apparent binary option: approve or reject. Weka said the rules stopped him running it by the Green caucus for a collective decision. I've already pointed out why rejection would have produced a worse shitstorm for the Greens.

            • McFlock 12.1.1.4.1.1

              No, "approving" is not "advocating quite strongly for"

              Stuff might have been misrepresenting the subject of the quote, or Hipkins was bullshitting and everyone has since gone with that just to keep the shitfight to a minimum, but that's the available comment.

              As for Shaw finding himself in "approve or reject", that's when you kick it upstairs.

          • weka 12.1.1.4.2

            Not sure why you are referencing Hipkins here (again), he wasn't involved in decisions afaik and his first response to the question was to say it was nothing to do with him, talk to the relevant ministers.

            Lobby is not quite the right word, because it implies that the Green Party from the outside promoted the project above others. Whereas my reading is that Shaw was part of the group that looked at more than a thousand applications, shortlisted them, and in that process he used a climate change and environment lens. The mistake was in not using a broader GP policy lens.

            Still afaik, the Green Party didn't have anything to do with, it was Shaw and his Ministry staff.

            • McFlock 12.1.1.4.2.1

              Lobby might be the wrong word for "advocated quite strongly for", but your lens theory is not inconsistent with Hipkins' account.

              Shortlisting things in meetings with people who have different perspectives often involves advocating for one's preferred shortlist items.Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you horse trade. But if you don't advocate, usually your preferred options don't make it to the shortlist.

              Budget items, job applicants, even the damned catering menu, sometimes. I'm still quite pleased I got them to include a pepperoni pizza at the last work hobnob.

              • weka

                Yes, it's his job to advocate strongly for projects that are going to help our climate response.

                My problem with Hipkins' statement is that afaik the GP wasn't involved. If Hipkins had said Shaw it would have made more sense in terms of getting the public up to speed on what actually happened. I don't blame Hipkins for this, it wasn't his area to comment in, but it's why I don't find that particular statement helpful as a reference point, it just keeps muddying the waters.

                Shaw's 30 min explanation and 40 min Q and A (with MD) to the members was important not only for the response to members, but because he basically described the inner workings of govt in ways that are rarely seen. I learned a lot. I wish this was happening regularly.

            • Dennis Frank 12.1.1.4.2.2

              I can now see why coalitions get so fraught in govt, if parties cannot appraise budget decisions to see if they are inadvertently likely to approve funding for things their policy opposes.

              I wonder if the protocols binding the decision-making are in the cabinet manual, or simply agreed ad hoc for each coalition.

              If the Greens had not had James in the frame as assoc finance minister, would they have been able to make caucus decisions on budget line items? I doubt it. Yet any funding decision ought to, in principle, be subject to Green caucus assessment. Or is that impractical?

              I'm not up with how much say a coalition support party gets, if any, so maybe others are more informed & can elucidate.

              • weka

                I guess he could have had one of his Minister staff run it past GP policy. Not sure if that creates a conflict of interest. Maybe someone else needs to be assigned the role and asked to sign a confidentiality agreement.

          • In Vino 12.1.1.4.3

            Good one McFlock.

        • Gabby 12.1.1.5

          They coulda said, we'll build your school and you can give us a 50% share in it, praxically.

      • mpledger 12.1.2

        I am ok with funding the green school. It's a business that attracts a lot of export dollars and it fits within the fund it got the money from. The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

        However, some schools are in shocking disrepair especially in the provinces and Wellington. I know Auckland is growing but there is an extraordinary discrepancy between Auckland high schools and their facilities and what other school around the country have to make do with.

        • RedBaronCV 12.1.2.1

          Stuff the export dollars they are visa selling to the rich. I'm not interested in that.

          • Incognito 12.1.2.1.1

            Contrary to some commenters here, I don’t think all the rich are ‘evil bastards’ by default. For me, context is important, i.e. how did they obtain their wealth and what do they do with it. The stereotypical ‘rich bastard’ is such a lazy label to declare one’s hyper-polarised prejudiced position that immediately kills any meaningful conversation.

            • Sabine 12.1.2.1.1.1

              for the last few weeks here there has been an ongoing campaing maligning 'overseas students' – buying visas to live here, scams, scammers etc and but this is not it?

              It is. And frankly if this school wants to show us it is not just a nice to have unschooling project for the failing kids of the very rich then they can come public as to whom their target group is. Cause 24.000 NZD is a lot of cash for most people in this country.

              This is not about all rich people are being evil, but most rich people don't pay taxes, do their best to not pay taxes, and their wealth has so far failed to trickle down to any of us. That i think is more the issue.

              • Incognito

                Young bright people like to acquire new experiences and explore the world. Some study overseas, some become au pairs, some do their OE after graduation. Some love a country they spend time in so much that they would like to stay or come back and then stay. We cannot have that, so much is clear, because some will abuse the system and our hospitality. Who do they think are, freeloading freedom campers in Aotearoa?

                I’m all for a wealth tax 🙂 Hit them where it hurts the most, in their pockets, of course. Paying (higher) taxes is the only way they can re-pay their debt to society, obviously. How these taxes ‘trickle down’ to any of us depends on Government.

                When they have ‘thieved’ enough [HT to DtB], they should give away all their ill-gotten gains instead of setting up a school to help others as it helped their children, for example. Like this couple did:

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300089556/philanthropic-kiwi-couple-giving-away-more-than-50-million

                Redemption is possible although some will never forgive – once a thief, always a thief.

            • RedBaronCV 12.1.2.1.1.2

              I'm not saying they are all "evil" as such. I object to visa buying on many grounds – I'm with Sabine in their failure to contribute to the community as taxpayers or in many other ways.

              Nor do I agree with the wealth being used to buy a bigger say in the decision making processes in the community. if they wanted to just come on limited term visa and be heavily constrained as to what they can spend money on locally – no political donations no dragging in under paid staff etc etc . But we are also winding up with this "super grade of people who trot from country to country legally" and who then move on rather than clean up aany mess they help to create. Frankly Repugs from the USA really grind my wheels – it didn't work there so why should we allow them here. It's a bit like taking on all the priviledged leaders of say the old communist USSR.

            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.2.1.1.3

              I don’t think all the rich are ‘evil bastards’ by default.

              The only way to get rich is through theft.

              Book Review: Why We Can’t Afford the Rich by Andrew Sayer

              The early sections of the book set out Sayer’s most interesting arguments: namely, that the wealth of the rich is unearned, and thus amounts to the extraction of value created by others or else simply speculation.

              Just because it was legal doesn't mean that it wasn't theft.

              • RedLogix

                The only way to get rich is through theft.

                And of course the marxist definition of rich is 'anyone wealthier than me'.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  And there you go, making shit up again.

                  • Ad

                    Proto-Marxist Proudhon said:

                    "La propriété, c'est le vol!" : Property Is Theft!

                    Though he was referring to property owners who "stole" profits from labourers.

                    He's not remembered for anything else.

                    • In Vino

                      Ad – Don't scorn Proudhon. At least his idea was an interesting concept. Nowadays we have sad dumby right-wingers tediously claiming that tax is theft. Oh dear…

                    • Incognito []

                      Property Tax = double theft or thieving from the thieves? Bring on a Wealth Tax, I say!

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Doesn't mean that he wasn't right.

                  • RedLogix

                    It's apparent from this thread that 'anyone who can afford to send their kids to a private school' fits the bill however.

                    Seems a pretty good proxy.

              • Stuart Munro

                I think your generalization may be a bit of a stretch.

                Hubbard, of South Canterbury Finance, didn't really fit that model, which is part of the reason he was so easily ripped off by Key and his accomplices.

                A level of incontinent greed is certainly abundant among the wealthy, as are a more innocent set of self-justifying assumptions about those who are not rich. But dishonesty is not obligate, merely frequent.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  I think your generalization may be a bit of a stretch.

                  Nope.

                  To get rich requires economies of scale applied to income. In other words, income from multiple people being fed into one stream. To achieve that requires some sort of mechanism that takes the wealth generated by those people and transfers it to another without the latter doing any work for it. It’s called, in modern parlance, a passive income. I suppose it got its name changed because its original name, rentier income, has some rather negative connotations.

                  So, shareholders, owners of rental properties, speculators and capitalists in general are all supported by law that allows such theft.

                  As I was told when I was doing Amway: A person working will never get rich but someone who has many people working for them will.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    As I said, the correlation is strong, but there are counter examples. J. K. Rowling became one of the wealthiest persons in Britain without recourse to financial jiggery pokery – she took the Oracle's advice:

                    If you would have innocent wealth, bring the bones of Hector out of Asia, and build a shrine to him.

                    Metaphorically, of course.

            • gsays 12.1.2.1.1.4

              Ahh, the deserving rich…devil

          • Janet 12.1.2.1.2

            I think that it is as much about the $,s from overseas students as anything else too ! I as a tax payer do not support this. Helping a private school for Kiwi kids I can handle … JUST ! Maybe if the access through the education system to become a NZ citizen was clearly and completely closed I might be able to handle that too.

      • Barfly 12.1.3

        The best chess players in the WORLD (who can play dozens of games blindfold) make mistakes in a game inside 64 squares that they have played for years – and in some cases decades – 20/20 hindsight is so cheap.

        I think the horse has been dead for a while – will you please stop flogging it?

  12. Ad 13

    There's a grouping for you: against masks, the UN, and the government generally: Aotea Square raise the roof!

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/content/tvnz/onenews/story/2020/08/29/protest.html?auto=6185687995001

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmo3HFa2vjg

  13. Andre 14

    I gotta say, it's been fascinating watching all the special pleading, sophistry, pinhead dancing and wilful misrepresentation of critics that's been happening ever since it was the "good guys" that got busted screwing up.

    • Ad 14.1

      Just fun teasing the moisties.

      Lucky we didn't let them near serious Ministerial responsibility, or walk with tin snips.

    • weka 14.2

      Can't say it's been fun watching otherwise intelligent, politically aware people completely misunderstand how govt works.

  14. joe90 15

    Chose your characters…establish a plot…

    https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1299884055706689537

    • Gabby 15.1

      Those cunning Chinese must have planned meticulously for yankistan to engage in collective fuckwittery. How did they pull that off?

  15. Andre 16

    Whew. They're not asking everyone in South and West Auckland to get tested. That never made sense – that's around 500,000 people and testing capacity is only around 70,000 per week. They have yet to update guidelines on who they want to turn up, but I'll guess they will be asking extra hard for people with even the mildest symptoms and/or any conceivable connection to a case to get checked out.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300094975/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-confirms-not-everyone-in-south-or-west-auckland-needs-covid19-test

    • Chris T 16.1

      And I am guessing no one will be held accountable for the mix up again.

      • Andre 16.1.1

        Maybe an emotional junior staffer.

        • Chris T 16.1.1.1

          Indeed. As heaven forbid someone senior should take some responsibility

          • weka 16.1.1.1.1

            Did you miss Andre's sarcasm or just side step it?

            • Chris T 16.1.1.1.1.1

              In the linked article?

              TBF yes. But it could just be me being thick. Wouldn't be a first.

              I am not even talking about her being held accountable.

              • Incognito

                Andre’s sarcasm was in Andre’s comment, not in the article that Andre linked to.

                Just as well you’re not talking about the PM being accountable. At least, the PM is taking steps to correct the mistake and make sure it doesn’t happen again.

            • Andre 16.1.1.1.1.2

              … and there I was, just quietly enjoying the whooshing sounds echoing around …

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVwsVbiFJZU

      • Anne 16.1.2

        Some fool didn't read or listen to the instruction properly and sent out the wrong message. It would have been either a MoH staffer or a media outlet – or both.

        I'm getting sick of these staffers or journos who botch- up and (maybe) put others at risk in the process.

        • Andre 16.1.2.1

          The error was within government somewhere. It was on the Unite Against Covid 19 facebook page, which is a genuine government communication channel.

    • Muttonbird 16.2

      That advice never seemed right. The PM was pissed off.

      Didn't stop Ad getting excited and pushing it right here on this forum though.

      • Andre 16.2.1

        Relax. Ad didn't make the screw-up. It was on an official government communication channel.

        • Muttonbird 16.2.1.1

          But he didn't question what was obviously an error. Most reasonably intelligent people would have questioned it, and not said, “chop, chop”.

          • Andre 16.2.1.1.1

            Why waste a good opportunity for a wind-up and spoil it with expressing skepticism?

            • Ad 16.2.1.1.1.1

              I'll get you one day you little scallywag.

            • Muttonbird 16.2.1.1.1.2

              Don't know how you are feeling in Auckland but I'm desperately worried about my income and family.

              I guess it's ok for people not working because their life doesn't change with Covid. For those of us still producing it's terrifying and having someone from leafy Wanaka on the wind-up is not helpful.

              • Andre

                Uh, IIRC Ad is still living in West Auckland (a Titirangi elite, no less) and Ad's workplace is also messed around with at level 3, and has alluded to disruptions from COVID possibly messing up plans to retire to Wanaka. Ad is sharing the disruption, not indulging in windups from a comfortable safe distance.

  16. Robert Guyton 17

    [content removed for breaching quoting rules]

    • Cinny 17.1

      Crikey, thanks for that info Robert and links etc. Much appreciated

    • Robert Guyton 17.2

      The moderation thread, moderator? I'm not sure where/what that is but rest assured, if I did, I'd visit willingly!

  17. ScottGN 18

    The latest Observer Opinium poll has Keir Starmer and Labour level pegging with the Tory government for the first time in over a year. Boris and his government have surrendered a 26 point lead in just over 5 months. Both parties are on 40%.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/29/boris-johnson-faces-tory-wrath-as-party-slumps-in-shock-poll

    • Gabby 18.1

      The tories have well over 4 years to orchestrate a hate campaign against him, no hurry.

  18. Morrissey 19

    Ken Loach calls out Sturmer for his complicity in the persecution of Julian Assange

    https://labourheartlands.com/exclusive-ken-loach-calls-out-sir-keir-starmer-what-was-his-dealings-in-the-julian-assange-case/

  19. Morrissey 20

    "I'm getting really sick of guys named Todd…"

    That little gem comes at the 13:15 mark…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5UHMsVQWe8

  20. Ad 21

    Adasenya or Costa?

  21. DS 22

    Defending NZ from crazy British newspaper columnists:

    Of New Zealand and Lockdowns: A Reply to Madeline Grant

  22. Dennis Frank 23

    Amazing. Public servants once again trying to destabilise the govt. Just saw the PM on Newshub say she's "incredibly angry".

    • Herodotus 23.1

      Not sure about blaming public servants and having an agenda to topple the government without giving some supporting links to this assertion. – Why did not Min Hipkins correct the message during his interview during the morning ? Or that it took until midway thru the PM's 1:00 briefing for a correction to be made when our PM was aware of this during the morning.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12360705

      • McFlock 23.1.1

        Seems there's a couple of options:

        A) the media reported it from 5pm, but anyone in govt who was familiar with the particular decision wasn't monitoring the media.

        B) the media reported it from 5pm, but anyone in govt who was familiar with the particular decision and was monitoring the media just figured that whatever media report they heard had fucked up the message and (being the weekend) they had no inclination or ability inclination to check the website at the time, and the media getting the message wrong is so routine they forgot about it.

        C) the media reported it from 5pm, but anyone in govt who was familiar with the particular decision and was monitoring the media underestimated the fuckage they should give and failed to correct it or call a minister about it. Maybe they thought they could wait until monday, who knows.

        • Herodotus 23.1.1.1

          Not sure about a govt dept consciously sabotaging – Looking forward to your reasoning to discredit.

          Option 4 . The minions at comms once contacted by the media, time ticked by as minions were waiting for seniors(Government Group) to give direction and what actions/statements were to be implemented. Story progressed, and still at the time of the PM's 1:00 statement there was still no action with the oversimplified statement still there.

          • McFlock 23.1.1.1.1

            From the Herald timeline (seriously? This bullshit deserves a timeline? Oh well, what the hell) "contacted" can mean "called someone's cellphone" or "sent email to generic comms@-style email address". The latter can easily be a few hours on the weekend depending on their set-up (helpdesk is dealing with other shit, takes a while to escalate, comms minion looks at email at home, verifies issue, escalatesfor instruction, supervisor goes for placeholder statement while they sort out the web editors, maybe has to drive into office). At which point the issue was resolved within a couple of hours. And everyone pulls finger when Ardern gets asked about it, because before then they didn't know that a journo thought it was a massive fucking crisis.

  23. ScottGN 24

    I don’t think it’s deliberate sabotage Dennis. Just poor grammar really and a lack of clear understanding of what needed to be communicated. And the fact it took as long as it did to get it taken down is probably best explained by the fact it’s the bloody weekend and all those 9-to-5ers couldn’t be reached.

    What’s annoying is the way the 4th estate all circle the wagons whenever one of their own comes out the worse for wear after an exchange with the PM. It’s getting bloody tedious.

  24. Robert Guyton 25

    Exhausting weekend!

  25. anker 26

    I am not sure what all the fuss is about re the information about all Westies and Southies getting tested………….Not a biggie at all and maybe it got people back to the testing station which can't be a bad thing.

    Honestly people, it is a harmless mistake. Confused and the likes must be as dim as two planks

  26. ScottGN 27

    No I don’t have it now weka. It came up on my Facebook this morning. The headline did say that everyone in West and South Auckland should get a test. But if you read through to the body of the text it was clear they were primarily concerned about people who were displaying symptoms or had any of the co-morbidities linked to Covid or were somehow connected to the Auckland August Cluster. It was clumsily worded for sure. But let’s be honest, you didn’t exactly need Mensa level comprehension skills to figure it out.

    The media shitstorm that’s erupted over it today is just self serving click bait bullshit.

  27. Stuart Munro 28

    It has been a tough weekend in some quarters. Let me recommend Irresistible if you haven't seen it.

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    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • The bewildering world of Chris Luxon – Guns for all, not no lunch for kids
    .“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Expert Opinion: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
    3 days ago
  • Manufacturing The Truth.
    Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet –  is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
    3 days ago
  • A Powerful Sensation of Déjà Vu.
    Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
    3 days ago
  • Can you guess where world attention is focussed (according to Greenpeace)? It’s focussed on an EPA...
    Bob Edlin writes –  And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    5 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    6 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    6 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    6 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Government moves to quickly ratify the NZ-EU FTA
    "The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level.   “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Ruapehu Alpine Lifts bailout the last, say Ministers
    Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Fresh produce price drop welcome
    Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024.  “Lower fruit and vege ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Statement to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women (CSW68)
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government backs rural led catchment projects
    The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber
    Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction.   Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Commission’s advice on ETS settings tabled
    Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government lowering building costs
    The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Trustee tax change welcomed
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