Open mike 31/03/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 31st, 2023 - 112 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

112 comments on “Open mike 31/03/2023 ”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    Fabulously clear day in Riverton. The sound of the waves from North beach promise settled weather. The students coming to our forest school today will be making damper, cooking it over an open fire of their creation. We'll learn about charcoal-making 🙂

    Tomorrow, a South Korean film crew begins filming here for a series about people who live in forests.

    The 4-day forecast looks good.

    • Hunter Thompson II 1.1

      Maybe students on the East Cape could learn about charcoal making in their region – lots of timber to pick up there.

      It staggers me that we are two decades into the 21st century, we are supposedly a modern, progressive society and we get timber slash destroying lives and businesses on a massive scale. This parallels the damage to society caused by intensive dairying in Canterbury and elsewhere.

      From what I can see, forests grown on unstable land in East Cape have been clear-felled with no regard to the consequences. The primary concern of the forestry companies is profit.

    • Enjoy Robert. So pleased our fickle weather is behaving for your enterprises.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    I don't know, if anyone, is advising Eli Rubashkyn but fleeing the country to avoid arrest on a minor assault charge is a really, really, really dumb idea. Even dumber is mocking the police with triumphalist statements on social media of their inability to do anything about her flight. Does she really think staying away for six months, one year or three years will make a difference to the NZ Police when she comes back to NZ?

    She is of course being egged on via social media by an army of idiots none of whom will be standing in the dock next to her when she inevitably gets deported or arrives back in NZ and is arrested.

    Travelling with an outstanding arrest warrant for assault is going to be perilous. One red flag or passport check at passport control will see her hauled off to a holding cell and deportation – God forbid she has been lying on her electronic visa applications, or travelling on other passports which conceal her identity in some way. You basically get treated like a potential terrorist if border authorities pick that up.

    Much better advice would be to have turned up at the police station, been charged and bailed and in six months if you are lucky you’ll get a discharge without conviction and a stern telling off. At worst it’ll be a conviction and fine. Fleeing the justice system and laughing at the authorities means the courts will take a much dimmer view of her actions now.

    • Cricklewood 2.1

      Travelling to the USA with an outstanding warrant seems especially foolish and likely to end in sitting in immigration detention for a few days at the very least.

    • Visubversa 2.2

      It will be interesting to see if any of the proclaimed "sacred classes" (trans, intersex, Jewish, Ukrainian) offer any protection.

    • weka 2.3

      I agree. Saying they did assault people and would do it again is daft at.

      Although they say they left because of death threats. And is there any evidence they have left the country? Some of their social media photos are fake or old photos reposted.

      • hetzer 2.3.1

        "They?" I thought it was only one arsehole that assaulted her, there are more? I think you meant “he” Weka

    • Jenny are we there yet 2.4

      Eliana Rubashkyn said police arrived at her Auckland flat this morning and spoke to her flatmate as she'd already fled the country.

      "I said wow this is so scary, and I asked for help from friends, and they helped me come here (Sydney)," Rubashkyn said.

      She said she was frightened by the response after the incident and had been receiving threatening messages.

      "I know my life is going to change.

      "I'm afraid, because I know a lot of people on Twitter, very important people with loads of followers, are advocating for (me to be) removed."

      Doesn't sound "triumphalist" to me. Sounds more like someone in fear of their life.

      Rubashkyn had already fled the country, before she heard the police were looking for her.

      Considering the sort of organised fascist groups that follow and support Posie Parker. And the on-line threats being made against her.

      To get Eli Rubashkyn back to this country to face the offence she has been charged with, the New Zealand authorities need to offer Rubashkyn guaranteed safe protective custody.

      Eli Rubashkyn expresses her love for this country and her dream for nobody to ever have to live in fear here.

      [please supply evidence for the two sets of claims of fact. 1. that ER left the country before they knew the police were looking for them. 2. “the sort of organised fascist groups that follow and support Posie Parker”

      Evidence means your explanation, quotes, and links. I want more than one piece of evidence for #2 and it had better be good, showing that there are fascists in NZ who both *follow KJK and *support her.

      If you can’t produce evidence for both, please withdraw the assertion and agree that you won’t make assertions like this again without evidence.

      You were warned about this the other day. This is a fraught topic and it’s not ok to run casual slur politics. The site policy is clear that you have to provide back up when requested.

      If you ignore my moderation here I will simply ban you, because I’m not wasting any more time trying to get you up to speed when you have a long history of bans for similar. You have until the end of the day – weka]

      • Sanctuary 2.4.1

        Right, so the poor wee mites plan when detained at the border somewhere is too… Claim refugee status on the grounds she is fleeing persecution?

        This sort of unfiltered and adolescent emotional response to anything stressful is unfortunately fairly typical of many TRAs.

        She needs to face the music and deal with it like every adult has to when they decide to clout someone in public.

      • weka 2.4.2

        Mod note. I've now looked at your ban history for 2023 and see you've already had two bans this year, one for making misleading comments, the other for attacking a commenter. If you don't follow the moderation note above in all respects, or if you mess me around, I will ban you until well after the election. If you are unclear on anything, please ask.

      • Jenny are we there yet 2.4.3

        When you say end of the day. Is that Midnight?

        I do have a life you know. And have things to do. I will try and make your deadline, later to night when I get time. But I can't make any promiises. Except I will promise to do my best.

        • weka

          I did mean midnight, but am ok to extend until midnight tomorrow if you can’t get it all done today. Please know that I have a life too and things to do, and I am no longer willing to use my time to chase people up for this kind of thing when they have been warned before.

      • Jenny are we there yet 2.4.4

        Trans people exist. Trans people want to go to the toilet. Something we all need to do most every day. Trans people. like everyone else want to be able to relieve themselves where they feel safest. This should not infringe on anyone's rights. It's the toilets, for goodness sake, we go there for one thing. And who hasn't gone in the other gendered toilets when they have been really busting and all the cubicles are occupied? But a moral panic has been created over this issue by the far right.

        A moral panic is a widespread feeling of fear, often an irrational, that some evil person or thing threatens the values, interests, or well-being of a community or society.[1][2][3][page needed] It is "the process of arousing social concern over an issue",[4] usually perpetuated by moral entrepreneurs and mass media coverage, and exacerbated by politicians and lawmakers.[1][2]Moral panic can give rise to new laws aimed at controlling the community. [5]

        Stanlev Cohen, who developed the term, states that moral panic happens when "a condition, episode, person or group of persons emerges to become defined as a threat to societal values and interests".[6]While the issues identified may be real, the claims "exaggerate the seriousness, extent, typicality and/or inevitability of harm"…..

        ….Examples of moral panic include the belief in widespread abduction of children by predatory pedophiles;[9][10][11]belief in ritual abuse of women and children by Satanic cults;[12]and concerns over the effects of music lyrics.[13] Some moral panics can become embedded in standard political discourse.[2] which include concepts such as the "Red Scare"[14] and terrorism.[15],the%20effects%20of%20music%20lyrics.

        [please supply evidence for the two sets of claims of fact. 1. that ER (she has a name you know) Eliana Rubashkyn left the country before they she knew the police were looking for them. her. 2. “the sort of organised fascist groups that follow and support Posie Parker”

        I am tired. In the morning I will be rested. But in the morning you will still lack empathy.

        I am not excusing or supporting what Eliana did. And I certainly would not have done anything like that myself. But Eliana Rubashkyn is a person, she is not a "they" or a "them". Eliana Ruashyn is certainly not an “it”, like a dog or a sub-human or a thing. It really shouldn't have to be said, but Eliana Ruashyn is a real person who needs to be treated as a person with a proper identity, You may not agree with how Eliana Rubashkyn identifies herself but at least give her the respect to address her as she would wished to be addressed. I notice for instance that you address Posie Parker as she wishes to be addressed.

        As a moderator, your lack of empathy means you have no issues at all with Eliana Rubashkyn being described as an “it” or as a “they” or as a “fuckwit” or as a “thug” terms that dehumanise her.


        31 March 2023 at 4:48 pm

        Well, when " it, they, fuckwit, thug", finally gets arrested for common assault on a woman, he ( yes its a man ), can explain its actions in court

        No bans or cautions here. What I see is lots of prejudice, lots of hate, lots of fear, and zero empathy.

        I also notice that you also don't object to trans, intersex, Jews being described as "sacred classes" or that it might be interesting to see if these "sacred classes" get special treatment in the US. A common fascist trope.


        31 March 2023 at 9:09 am

        It will be interesting to see if any of the proclaimed "sacred classes" (trans, intersex, Jewish, Ukrainian) offer any protection.

        Nothing to moderate here as far as you are concerned.

        Whether Eliana Ruashyn knew or not whether she was being sought by the police is irrelevant really, I believe her when she says she heard if from a friend when she was already in Australia that the police were looking for her. She says she left this country which she says she loves dearly, because of the threats made against her.

        And this fear is real. It was continuous non-stop on-line threats and abuse that brought down the ablest politician of a generation and the best Prime Minister of my life time. I can remember and name them all, starting from (Sir) Keith Holyoak on.

        I think that if Jacinda Ardern spoke publicly in support of our trans community, the far right would kill her. I am not joking or exaggerating this is how strong the far right hate was/is against her. And what was Jacinda Ardern's crime that earned such hate from the far right? Being caring and courageous enough to take drastic actions to save possibly thousands of New Zealanders lives.

        And you know what else I think. I think New Zealanders rallied in solidarity with our trans brothers and sisters in such numbers because we are sick and tired of the far right taking over the narrative by occupying and dominating our public and on-line spaces.

        What was your other question?

        What are the organised fascist groups that follow and support Posie Parker”

        Evidence for that is everywhere..

        I might give you the links tomorrow if you are interested. But I don't think you are. Not really.

        [banned for the rest of the year for wasting moderator time and refusing to play by the rules (patterns of behaviour) – weka]

        • weka

          mod note.

        • I Feel Love

          Thanks Jenny, takes a brave person to support the trans community at the Standard.

          • The Al1en

            Yep, respect for Jenny and all those missing, silenced voices here, even ure, who for once was on the right path.

            • Anker
              • Te Allen, I want to apologise to you for a comment I made in response to your Nuremberg comment on the Daily Blog.

              I can’t remember what I said, but it was reactive. I know you have a family member who is transgender and they absolutely deserve to live free of personal harassment.

              I heard an interview with an older lesbian who claimed many of the trans rights activists were heterosexual men who identify as non binary.

              people are entitled to identify any how they like, but I am against changing laws to accommodate that.

              I also refuse to be gaslite by the state, now including the police that women can have a penis

            • The Al1en

              I'm not bothered either way.

              Edit: But welcome your comment on my child.

          • weka

            Thanks Jenny, takes a brave person to support the trans community at the Standard.

            Possibly, but it also takes someone who is willing to abide by the rules. Jenny has a long history of being moderated, on a range of topics. There are other people here who regularly support the trans community but don't do so by running slur politics and who are willing to work within the long standing debate culture of TS. They are welcome.

    • hetzer 2.5

      Well, when " it, they, fuckwit, thug", finally gets arrested for common assault on a woman, he ( yes its a man ), can explain its actions in court

  3. Joe90 4

    Pretty sure planning systematic torture and bringing your own standardised kit to do the job is a high tariff war crime.


  4. Sanctuary 5

    Interesting article today in the guardian that notes NZ is in the forefront of OFFENSIVE cyberwarfare capabilities in the fight against Russian online propaganda and cyberwarfare:

    "…Analysts say Russia is also engaged in a continual conflict with what it perceives as its enemy, the west, including the US, UK, EU, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, all of which have developed their own classified cyber-offensive capabilities in a digital arms race…"

  5. tsmithfield 6

    I don't know how much damage will be done to the government over this email saga, with revelations coming out about whether it was incorrectly withheld from the Ombudsman and who was involved in the decision making process. In some respects, it may be seen as a beltway issue, and perceived as gotcha politics that doesn't impact on the lives of ordinary kiwis.

    But, on the other hand, it is a very unwelcome distraction for the government, and is proving to be a major test of Hipkin's leadership. And also, stands in stark contrast to previous promises around transparency.

    So, it will be interesting to see what happens from here on in. In some ways, a tidy way to control the narrative would be for the government to initiate an inquiry. This would get the issue out of media attention as the findings of the inquiry could be delayed until after the election.

    The biggest problem for the government though is that the Auditor General may organise an independent inquiry. Under this scenario, the government would have no control over that enquiry, or when findings are released. And the AG may decide to have a much broader look at OIA releases.

    • Sanctuary 6.1

      I think the press gallery is trying to work itself into a frenzy about it, but that is because it suits their agenda – a beltway scandal they don't have to go far to investigate and where the they get to do the usual round of tired pundits and questions that beget questions and all from the comfort of their office chair.

      Most issue like this have little impact on voters once the offending minister has been sacked, and anyway – Hipkins is insulated from the actions of the previous PM's office.

    • Bearded Git 6.2

      I think dumping Nash and then blaming him for everything has sorted it in the minds of the populace

      • tsmithfield 6.2.1

        I agree. If this is an isolated incident that can be sheeted to Nash, then you are probably right.

        However, as I mentioned, what we don't know is how much more is out there. If this isn't an isolated accident, but part of a deliberate strategy to obstruct OIA requests, then there could be a lot more.

        If that is the case, then the whole issue could keep boiling along with some new email being dropped every couple of weeks.

        • Belladonna

          Caveat: I don't think this is anything more than a beltway issue. The whole problem of OIA evasion is not something that registers on the radar of ordinary Kiwis.

          However, I think that the paper trail of this cock-up or coverup (take your pick) goes from Nash's office to the PM's office. At the very least, it's incompetence (there is no way that this email wasn't relevant – so what were the reasons for concealing it?)

          However, the bigger issue brought to light is the standard practice of every party in government to conceal as much as possible in any OIA request.
          We see this time and again – when Minister's 'forget' to include meetings in diaries, or staff exclude valid emails/letters on spurious grounds.

          No party is immune from this. All do it – purely for political advantage.

          I'd like to see legislation or regulation 'clarifying' that once someone is a Minister, they no longer have a separation of identity into MP and Minister – for OIA purposes. I mean, what do they do – run an impermeable membrane down the centre of their identity! Of course, MP communications are informed by their ministerial role and knowledge of what is discussed around the cabinet table. That is *why* there is an OIA to a minister, and not to a backbencher.

          I'd also like to see serious consequences for OIA request delays and rejections (which are then pushed back by the Ombudsman) – which have just about become routine. Perhaps the Minister should be required to get leave from Parliament, complete with an excuse considered acceptable, for any delay. And make a formal explanation to Parliament of any adverse Ombudsman findings.

          • Liberty Belle

            You'll be interested in this piece from NRT.

            "My second comment is that this is a perfect example of why the OIA needs criminal penalties for deliberate violations. Canada does this, with the Access to Information Act having a penalty of two years imprisonment for those who, with intent to frustrate a request, conceal, falsify or destroy records. We should do the same, to deter such behaviour and enable public servants to stand up to illegal demands from their political masters. But as with the Ombudsmen's Act, the problem is getting Ministers to apply the law to themselves…"

          • tsmithfield

            No party is immune from this. All do it – purely for political advantage.

            I tend to agree with you on that. However, the problem for Hipkins now is that he has set a threshold for sacking cabinet ministers. So, I bet he is sweating on the hope that no other ministers have offended in a similar way.

            • Belladonna

              TBH – I'd say that the particular offence (sharing insider information from the cabinet with political donors) – is highly likely to be limited to Nash.
              It doesn't seem the kind of thing that would be likely to be widespread – if only because your cabinet colleagues would be furious with you if/when they found out.
              Also assuming that the rest of the Ministers have at least read the Cabinet Manual!

              Any other Minister who has done such a stupid thing, would now know exactly what the consequences are. [Anyone who's even slightly dubious about what they've said, will no doubt be spending the weekend reviewing their correspondence for the last 5 years]

              The part that is widespread – evasion of OIA requests, using any excuse under the sun – isn't something that he sacked Nash for, so won't need to hold others to the same high standard.

              • tsmithfield

                TBH – I'd say that the particular offence (sharing insider information from the cabinet with political donors) – is highly likely to be limited to Nash.

                That is probably a fair point. One would hope such behaviour isn't wide-spread.

            • Gabby

              OR, hoping that one or two HAVE offended in a similar way…

  6. Peter 7

    It looks like I missed the evolution of the meaning of another word. A car burned out on the Harbour Bridge last night. The vehicle "identified by witnesses as a Tesla – had somehow caught ablaze… Photos show the white Tesla’s front completely torched. No one was injured, he confirmed. The cause of the fire is also not yet known at this stage."

    In my once-upon-a-time saying something had been 'torched' meant the cause was known – the object had been 'torched', i.e. deliberately set on fire. The word is used twice.

  7. Molly 8

    Interesting recent blogpost on mental health trends for young people in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

    Intro by Jon Haidt, one of the authors of 2018 book The Coddling of the American Mind, (which I have no knowledge of), the rest is Part 1 of the preliminary report by research partner, Zach Rausch.

    When Jon first asked me to figure out whether teen mental health had collapsed around the globe after 2012, I thought he was nuts. The task felt impossible and beyond what I thought I could accomplish. But it was precisely this kind of work that I aspired to do…

    …The short answer to Jon’s question is: Teen mental health plummeted across the Western world in the early 2010s, particularly for girls and particularly in the most individualistic nations. The longer answer begins below and will continue in parts 2 and 3.

    You can skip to the New Zealand summary here:

    The increase in self-reported anxiety and depression in New Zealand is among the steepest across all of the Anglo countries. Figure 14, with data from the New Zealand Ministry of Health, shows that in 2007, the percentage of 15-24-year-old males and females who said they had been given an anxiety diagnosis was approximately 3%. By 2020, the percentage of young females with an anxiety diagnosis had grown to 24.8% (a 259% increase compared to 2011). Males also rose to 9% in 2020 (a 131% increase).

    These increases are so large, and the starting numbers are so low (just 3% of girls had an anxiety diagnosis in 2007?) that we suspect that this graph shows, in part, changing diagnostic criteria and greater awareness of anxiety. We do not believe that the underlying rates of anxiety disorders increased as quickly as the lines in Figure 11 suggest. Nonetheless, given what we are seeing in all of the Anglosphere countries, and given the self-harm data below, we believe that much or most of the rise is real. In any case, in 2007, only one in 30 girls thought she had an anxiety disorder; by 2020, it was one in four.

    There is a 60 page draft document which lists sources and data not shown on the blogpost:

    You can view all of the studies we found on mental health trends in New Zealand in our document titled The Coddling of the Kiwi Mind? A Collaborative Review.

    I'm currently looking through, and although no conclusions have been drawn it seems that addressing effectively this significant increase should be a priority for any government.

    • Shanreagh 8.1

      Me being cynical and therefore not overly helpful means I think that the Govt will be able to blame this concerning increase on the oppression felt by young people at the exercise of women's rights to safe spaces, fairness in sport etc.

      On a more sensible note:

      My concern is that children are being made to listen/absorb what should be the concerns of adults. I first became aware of this in the mid 1990s when my loved mother in law involved my then 9 year old brother & sister in law in listening to her troubles concerning the father's non payment/her legal troubles etc. I have seen this trend over and over. My bro in law was very affected by this, was powerless though.

      We should strive to make sure our children have time to be children. They will have the rest of their lives to be concerned about world, country etc problems. I'm not meaning they live in a bubble.

      I'm aware of how non acceptable/old fashioned these views are to some.

      • Molly 8.1.1

        "We should strive to make sure our children have time to be children. "

        I agree. I always considered one of the primary roles of a child's caregiver is to maintain appropriate boundaries.

        The boundaries for independence and behaviour expand as the child grows in capability and demonstrations of maturity.

        Safeguarding boundaries are not just related to physical access, but exposure to ideas and concepts (particularly adult concerns and sexuality) that disrupt or blight their individual development at their own pace.

        If I find it, I’ll add the Facebook findings on the negative social media impact on young people, notably girls again.

    • Tony Veitch 8.2

      IMHO the whole world is on a mental health hiding to nothing as the realisation of just how serious the climate crisis is, sinks in.

      Over the next decade or so, our whole way of life is going to change, very probably materially for the worse.

      And change begets stress.

      We ain't seen nothing yet!

    • bwaghorn 8.3


      Being constantly told that the earth's is fucked due cc

      Social media.

      Stressed parents only just making ends meat,

      Gender ideology, my kids school tried gender neutral toilets, a fucking primary school.

      Rampant divorce rates because that's the easy option.

      It's trendy to be anxious and gender fluid.

      • Molly 8.3.1

        Overview of Facebook internal research:

        For the past three years, Facebook has been conducting studies into how its photo-sharing app affects its millions of young users. Repeatedly, the company’s researchers found that Instagram is harmful for a sizable percentage of them, most notably teenage girls.

        “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues.

        “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiety and depression,” said another slide. “This reaction was unprompted and consistent across all groups.”

        Among teens who reported suicidal thoughts, 13% of British users and 6% of American users traced the desire to kill themselves to Instagram, one presentation showed.

      • weka 8.3.2

        those are obviously influences in later years, but not at the start.

        • bwaghorn

          2008 the year the country elected the lying key ing.

          Only partially joking

        • Stephen

          Facebook 2004

          Instagram 2010

          Snapchat 2011

          TikTok 2017

          • weka

            Tumblr 2007 (of particular interest re gender ideology and the rise of girls transitioning)

            Would be interesting to know the years that FB upped its emotional manipulation algorithms.

        • joe90

          Quite the correlation with the growth of youtube and the 2016 kick in females mirrors uptake of fibre to the home.

          • SPC

            2014 to 2015?

            • Molly

              Affordability of smart phones, or other devices making them more accessible to young teenagers for longer periods of time?

              I'll have to see if there is data or research looking at that in particular. If I find it, I'll post here. I think that may also differ by country as well.

              • SPC

                It's also 2013-2014, a 2013-2015 spike and when it goes down for males.

                For males the jump is 2015-2016, when it goes down/flatlines for females.

                Good luck.

                • Molly

                  When looking at such research, I don't think it is likely there is one answer. I'm more interested in looking at possible contributors, and trying to determine the weighting of each.

                  Otherwise, there is a danger of identifying one particular contributor, providing a solution for it, and disregarding the rest.

                  With that in mind – this from 2022 which I post without reading to beat the edit time constraint:


    • The growth of the internet and insidious advertising may be a factor?

      • Molly 8.4.1

        It could be that society and culture has been unable to accommodate such sudden and significant changes without cost.

  8. SPC 9

    Off the books payment probe has resulted in a thunder of justice event – the big apple entices Florida man to home detention in Trump Towers.

    A Manhattan grand jury voted to indict Donald J. Trump on Thursday for his role in paying hush money to a porn star, according to four people with knowledge of the matter, a historic development that will shake up the 2024 presidential race and forever mark him as the nation’s first former president to face criminal charges.

    The felony indictment, filed under seal by the Manhattan district attorney’s office, will likely be announced in the coming days. By then, prosecutors working for the district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, will have asked Mr. Trump to surrender and to face arraignment on charges that remain unknown for now.

  9. Ad 10

    A huge shoutout to the Hipkins government for continuing to do the one big thing they do well: redistribute taxpayer cash to those who need it.

    From tomorrow the 1st of April over 1.4 million New Zealanders are going to get more money, Of course it's not enough. But Labour have a consistently strong record over two terms of increasing payments across welfare.

    As of tomorrow the nurses pay agreement worth $200million kicks in; that's right across nurses in aged residential care, hospices, home and community services, those in Māori and Pacific healthcare, get up to 15% more in take home pay.

    Also as of tomorrow more than half of New Zealand families with children can get subsidised childcare assistance. 10,000 more children can get Childcare Subsidy and takes an edge of financial grief off childcare before and after work.

    For those on NZSuper, since 2017, a couple get $326.68 more per fortnight and single older people get an extra $212.34 per fortnight.

    Also you get adjusted lifts for veteran's pensions.

    Also coming up from 1 May the Winter Energy Payment goes to all beneficiaries and superannuants.

    Also from 1 July Child Support will be passed on to sole parent beneficiaries.

    That's easily 20% of New Zealand getting more of a hand to deal with growth in supermarket prices, power prices. Of course it's not enough. And yes poverty isn't going down fast enough and here's a series of stats on that:

    • Sanctuary 10.1

      A group of people probably vastly under-polled, and basically invisible in the constant media parade of middle class whiners, cookers and entitled small business complainers. Because Labour won by so much in 2019 it is overlooked that the polls were out by quite margin – I can't recall exactly, but I think they over-stated the right vote by 2% or so and understated Labour's support by around 4%, hopefully these groups will get out and vote en masse come the next election.

  10. Tricledrown 11

    Duncan Garner,Tovar O'brien are facing the reality of the Free market and probably no redundancy. You would think they would be defending a company which can't make money closing down a loss making enterprise.The Media landscape has been changing for more than ten year's so no surprises therefore why would any company continue to throw good money after bad.

    • Stephen 11.1

      Live by the capitalist sword, die by the capitalist sword.

      • Blade 11.1.1

        Live by the taxpayer dollar without creating, die from the economic reality.

    • Anne 11.2

      My first reaction to the story:

      " Oh you poor little highly paid things. Now you know how it feels to be made redundant and tossed on the scrap heap without so much as a "sorry". It happened to many thousands of us in the 80s and 90s and we didn't earn big bucks. We survived, but not without serious hardships, and you will too. So shut up and stop moaning about how hard done by you are. We're not listening. angry

  11. A piece by the much maligned Posey Parker in the Spectator .

    I watched the Hobart Let Women Speak several times and it was the genesis of the approach I made to SUFW and now the complaint to the Independent Police Conduct Authority.

    She comments:

    'The Tasmanian event was pretty horrifying. The women who spoke were visibly terrified and an angry mob drowned out their voices with hysterical screams and cult-like mantras' .

    The women were surrounded by baying, shouting jostling people only kept at a distance of about 5ft, behind them, by several older men, no police. Police let the crowd surge forward. Also of concern at Hobart were the pest media who jostled the women speakers including putting the long nose of a camera across/above the shoulder of the woman speaking from a wheelchair.

    Kudos to those women.

    • Robert Guyton 12.1

      What is it about them that attracts angry mobs?

      • weka 12.1.1

        left wing men being useless?

        • Robert Guyton


          Guess then, I'm gone-burger!

          • weka

            I was being satirical because I couldn't quite take in that you were arguing that there's something about women's rights campaigners or women speaking at an open mike that attract angry mobs.

            • Robert Guyton

              Wondering why the neo-nazis turned up in support in Australia.

              • Shanreagh

                No Nazis in Hobart.

                As for the rest of your question you are clearly not reading the links we have provided.

                KJM does not support Nazis. I doubt any of the women who tried to line up to talk in Akl support Nazis either.

                This is a trans trope/slur

                The obvious point for many is that women don't have penises and men don't have vaginas.

                Sure with the miracles of modern cosmetic etc surgery these can be created the fact remains there are two sexes: male & female.

                • Robert Guyton

                  "KJM does not support Nazis. I doubt any of the women who tried to line up to talk in Akl support Nazis either."

                  This is my belief also.

              • weka

                What were the neo-Nazis supporting?

                • hetzer

                  What were the neo Nazis supporting?

                  At a guess ( thinking of actual Fascist ideology ) is the strong emphasis put on traditional family values and roles. The idea of different genders and homosexuality being viewed as deviant.

                  The neo nazi presence would be not so much as support for Parker but rather as a show of dislike for the groups protesting against her.

                  Also, of course is the Nazi love of dressing up in uniforms and parading! Theres nothing a Nazi likes more than looking like a bus conductor!

                  • weka

                    sounds like a good guess to me.

                  • Robert Guyton

                    " traditional family values and roles."

                    Father brings home the bacon, mother bakes the cakes, that sort of thing?

                  • Michaelp

                    "Nazi love of dressing up in uniforms and parading!"

                    Yep, like men dressing up as women (or how they think women should or do dress) and shutting opposing viewpoints down through use of intimidation and violence.

                    Sounds just like facists to me.

                • Robert Guyton

                  My question also, weka.

                  I'm not convinced by hetzer'a argument. Are you?

                  They weren't there to support Parker, but instead to "show dislike" for a community?

                  • weka

                    please describe the support that you see, of neo-Nazis supporting KJK and LWS. Some evidence of it would be useful as well so we can see the context.

                    because I see you making the assertion and I don't actually know what you mean and there's certainly been no evidence or theory in your comments.

              • Molly

                If you are honestly still wondering, then it is because you are not reading any of the responses given to this question on TS.

                Go back, and stop pretending ignorance.

                Or worse, celebrating ignorance when enlightenment is available to you.

                • Shanreagh

                  Good points Molly.

                  Socratic mode of questioning, that I had in all of its tough glory in some of my law studies is designed to elucidate, to expand knowledge by questioning.

                  Although the questioner(tutor) assumes an ignorant mindset, or argues in the negative, ignorant mindsets are not usually the ones who use this type of questioning.

                  The questioner has a depth of knowledge of the topic sufficient to enable them to maintain an argument against the topic to generate enhanced knowledge

                  People seeking knowledge about a topic that they do not have are best to read texts on and around the topic.

                  For instance we would not adopt a Socratic method of questioning when somebody wants to know how gravity works. We would ask them to read on the topic then to test or extend the depth of their knowledge we may ask some Socratic type questions.

                  But oh the almost terror in a law class where we had to sit in exactly the same seat as we had originally turned up to the first lecture, the lecturer who goes row by row along the rows & you realise you might not have 'got' the readings and questions are getting closer and closer, you've got to stand, think on your feet……

                  Good method perhaps especially for those involved in courtroom work.

                • Robert Guyton

                  I am, by now, quite well-read on the issue. I believe I understand the position you, weka et al have taken.

                  Something about it though, is off, imo.

                  • Molly

                    "I am, by now, quite well-read on the issue. I believe I understand the position you, weka et al have taken."

                    Not apparent by your comments. However, feel free to articulate your understanding of "the position you, weka et al have taken.".

                    I'll honestly tell you if you've got it right – or wrong.

                    "Something about it though, is off, imo."

                    The only information that imparts is that it is a vague aspersion.

                  • Shanreagh

                    Women's rights, women's rights, free speech, 'women don't have penises men don't have vaginas' are quite clear & plain to me.

                    In Open Mike today 1/4 I quote from a NZ woman Katrina Biggs on the Shaneel Lal debacle.

                    She concludes:

                    It seems that being an arsehole is still no barrier to getting a prestigious award, but being a woman who doesn’t want men in her or her daughters’ spaces gets your life put in danger. Good to know that the world hasn’t tilted on its’ axis too much.


                    In a less topsy turvey world women who stepped up to protect their daughters would be feted not derided.

                    Unless you express your views about what is 'off' with these views we cannot discuss them (obviously)

                  • weka

                    I am, by now, quite well-read on the issue. I believe I understand the position you, weka et al have taken.

                    Something about it though, is off, imo.

                    Perhaps you do understand but I've not seen much evidence that you understand Molly, my, or other women's position, because you simply don't engage with the substance of the ideas. The way you have been commenting on TS strongly suggests that you don't understand. Again here instead of stating clearly what is off, it's just the smear suggestion so often used by TRAs in the place of clean debate.

                    I'm open to being wrong, maybe you do have a grasp of the issues, but I'm not seeing that.

  12. Stuart Munro 13

    I wonder if any of us here recall the UK miners strike of the mid eighties. This was the action that ultimately led to the decline of union power in Britain, and likely influenced, as unlike events in major powers often do to NZ, our own dark descent into Roger Douglas's wretched folly – for the decline of our unions did not proceed from resentment at their (unions) demand to be treated as a special case in wage negotiations.

    I raise the issue because activism out of a context of genuine disadvantage, is wont to be self-defeating. The people of Europe after the revolutions of 1848, the suffragettes, once women had secured the vote, unions, once pay and safety concerns were meaningfully addressed, all had to wait getting on for a generation, and the development of new issues, before fresh activism could attract broadly based support.

    Activists, having achieved any measure of success, are disempowered by it. They must find new careers, or fresh problems, if they substantially resolve the ones that initially motivated them.

    And so I expect it is with the contemporary trans debate. Gifted unprecedented (and unearned) parliamentary representation by the Covid response, they voted themselves, in the form of the BDM review, unprecedented liberties without all that tiresome business of securing public support. Not bad for a group of roughly 3% (using Australian numbers) of the population. But as noted above, the natural demise of popular support for further activism.

    • weka 13.1

      not sure if I quite followed that, but in the UK there's the theory that because the big campaigns for lesbians and gays had been one, the charity Stonewall needed a new cause and chose trans issues. They've been hugely influential in how trans rights have developed and in blocking debate about how to ensure trans rights without harming women or LGB rights.

      • Stuart Munro 13.1.1

        Yes I think that is one facet of the situation.

        There have been a number of claims that the trans issues are settled, loosely based on Gen Z responses. There is a problem with the assertion, beyond its speculative nature, in that (and I don't have a convenient reference, alas) adolescence is pretty much a high point for gender variation – identity tends to stabilize with age or experience or some combination of the two, so that current snap-shots of Gen Z are as likely to be the apogee of gender variation in that generation, rather than some LGBT& millennium.

        But the culmination of advocacy isn't going away. It might be, for example, an explanation for Grant Robertson's adoption of a useful role (economics) outside gender advocacy – realizing that the major battles in that field have already been fought, and that consequently the number of positions for activists is declining.

        Issues move on, and climate, and the transition to a plausible socioeconomic accommodation with it, must be resolved. This is a present issue – perhaps the present issue – others are a distraction.

        • weka

          the other thing about the whole Gen Z idea is that the young women grow up into young mothers then older mothers and grandmothers and have to deal with everything that goes with that, both biologically and sociopolitically. There's a reason why the people that get the problems with GI are usually older women (and lesbians, they always got it). Nothing like sexism and misogyny when you're in labour or menopause to peak you.

          • Stuart Munro

            A good point – and I think too that there is a kind of social conditioning, on younger folk and especially younger women, to not speak out. The habit of contemplating failures and injustices in silence makes older women especially formidable when, at last, they do.

    • Anne 13.2

      "Activists, having achieved any measure of success, are disempowered by it."

      I think we saw a good example of it in the 1980s over the issue of nuclear proliferation and the French nuclear testing at Mururoa Atoll in particular. It culminated in the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior bombing in 1985 and its aftermath, by which time the success of the NZ government’s nuclear-free status had become synonymous with Prime Minister David Lange and the role he played. Who can forget the famous Oxford Union debate:

      Together with the row over Rogernomics which Lange came to view with alarm and contempt, his successes (especially on the international stage) were to bring about his downfall. In other words he was in large part “disempowered” by those successes.

      He died a sick man in 2005. He was only 62 years of age and I often wondered since how much all that argy-bargy in the 1980s might have affected his health.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • SPEECH: To the IISS Shangri-La Dialogue 2023 by the Honourable Andrew Little MP, New Zealand Ministe...
    New Zealand’s most recent defence assessment identified climate change and geostrategic competition as the two greatest security challenges to our place in the South Pacific. To the first issue, partners engaging and re-engaging with Pacific Island Countries are finding that climate change is a security and existential threat in our ...
    16 hours ago
  • Govt supporting more rangatahi into training and employment opportunities
    The government is continuing to support rangatahi in providing more funding into Maori Trades training and new He Poutama Rangatahi programmes across Aotearoa. “We’re backing 30 new by Māori for Māori Kaupapa employment and training programmes, which will help iwi into sustainable employment or progress within their chosen careers” says ...
    24 hours ago
  • Energy self-sufficient marae reopens with support of Government investment
    Murihiku Marae was officially reopened today, setting a gold standard in sustainable building practices as well as social outcomes for the people of Waihōpai Invercargill, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan says. “The marae has been a central hub for this community since the 1980’s. With the support of $9.65 million ...
    1 day ago
  • First major Whangārei public housing project in a generation complete
    The first major public housing development in Whangārei for decades has reached completion, with 37 new homes opened in the suburb of Maunu today. The project on Tapatahi Crescent and Puriri Park Road, consists of 15 one-bedroom, 4 two-bedroom, 7 three-bedroom, 8 four-bedroom and 3 five-bedroom homes, as well as ...
    1 day ago
  • Trade Minister to represent New Zealand trade interests abroad
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damen O’Connor will depart tomorrow for London to represent New Zealand at the Commonwealth Trade Ministers’ Meeting and then to Paris to vice-chair the OECD Ministerial Council Meeting. “My travel to the United Kingdom is well-timed, with the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement (UK FTA) ...
    1 day ago
  • Bill to boost national fuel resiliency introduced
    The Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill would: boost New Zealand’s fuel supply resilience and economic security enable the minimum stockholding obligation regulations to be adapted as the energy and transport environment evolves. “Last November, I announced a six-point plan to improve the resiliency of our fuel supply from ...
    2 days ago
  • Faster ACC payment top-ups and fairer system
    The Government is making sure those on low incomes will no longer have to wait five weeks to get the minimum weekly rate of ACC, and improving the data collected to make the system fairer, Minister for ACC Peeni Henare said today.  The Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) ...
    2 days ago
  • Compulsory code of conduct for school boards introduced
    A compulsory code of conduct will ensure school board members are crystal clear on their responsibilities and expected standard of behaviour, Minister of Education Jan Tinetti said. It’s the first time a compulsory code of conduct has been published for state and state-integrated school boards and comes into effect on ...
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Federation of Commercial Fishermen annual conference.
    Tena koutou katoa and thank you, Mayor Nadine Taylor, for your welcome to Marlborough. Thanks also Doug Saunders-Loder and all of you for inviting me to your annual conference. As you might know, I’m quite new to this job – and I’m particularly pleased that the first organisation I’m giving a ...
    2 days ago
  • Govt to support councils with buyout and better protection of cyclone and flood affected properties
    The Government will enter into a funding arrangement with councils in cyclone and flood affected regions to support them to offer a voluntary buyout for owners of Category 3 designated residential properties. It will also co-fund work needed to protect Category 2 designated properties. “From the beginning of this process ...
    2 days ago
  • Government delivers changes to reduce pokies harm
    The Government has announced changes to strengthen requirements in venues with pokie (gambling) machines will come into effect from 15 June. “Pokies are one of the most harmful forms of gambling. They can have a detrimental impact on individuals, their friends, whānau and communities,” Internal Affairs Minister Barbara Edmonds said. ...
    2 days ago
  • Government delivers 1800 additional frontline Police
    The total Police workforce is now the largest it has ever been. Police constabulary stands at 10,700 officers – an increase of 21% since 2017 Māori officers have increased 40%, Pasifika 83%, Asian 157%, Women 61% Every district has got more Police under this Government The Government has delivered on ...
    2 days ago
  • Minister Mahuta talks Pacific ambitions at the first Korea-Pacific Leaders’ summit
    Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon Nanaia Mahuta met with Korea President Yoon, as well as Pacific Islands Forum Secretary General Henry Puna, during her recent visit to Korea.  “It was an honour to represent Aotearoa New Zealand at the first Korea – Pacific Leaders’ Summit. We discussed Pacific ambitions under the ...
    2 days ago
  • Government drives $2 billion of business research and development
    The Government’s Research and Development Tax Incentive has supported more than $2 billion of New Zealand business innovation – an increase of around $1 billion in less than nine months. "Research and innovation are essential in helping us meet the biggest challenges and seize opportunities facing New Zealand. It’s fantastic ...
    3 days ago
  • Achieving lift off: National Space Policy launched
    The next ‘giant leap’ in New Zealand’s space journey has been taken today with the launch of the National Space Policy, Economic Development Minister Barbara Edmonds announced. “Our space sector is growing rapidly. Each year New Zealand is becoming a more and more attractive place for launches, manufacturing space-related technology ...
    3 days ago
  • New science and creative technologies wharekura announced
    A new Year 7-13 designated character wharekura will be built in Pāpāmoa, Associate Minister of Education Kelvin Davis has announced. The wharekura will focus on science, mathematics and creative technologies while connecting ākonga to the whakapapa of the area. The decision follows an application by the Ngā Pōtiki ā Tamapahore ...
    3 days ago
  • Freedom Camping changes a win for the environment
    Protecting the environment by establishing a stronger, more consistent system for freedom camping Supporting councils to better manage freedom camping in their region and reduce the financial and social impacts on communities Ensuring that self-contained vehicle owners have time to prepare for the new system   The Self-Contained Motor Vehicle ...
    3 days ago
  • Speeding up the family court, reducing stress on families
    A new law passed last night could see up to 25 percent of Family Court judges’ workload freed up in order to reduce delays, Minister of Justice Kiri Allan said. The Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill will establish a new role known as the Family Court Associate. The ...
    3 days ago
  • UK FTA delivers benefits from today
    New Zealand businesses will begin reaping the rewards of our gold-standard free trade agreement with the United Kingdom (UK FTA) from today.  “The New Zealand UK FTA enters into force from today, and is one of the seven new or upgraded Free Trade Agreements negotiated by Labour to date,” Prime ...
    3 days ago
  • Next steps to reform outdated surrogacy law
    The Government will reform outdated surrogacy laws to improve the experiences of children, surrogates, and the growing number of families formed through surrogacy, by adopting Labour MP Tāmati Coffey’s Member’s Bill as a Government Bill, Minister Kiri Allan has announced. “Surrogacy has become an established method of forming a family ...
    4 days ago
  • Defence Minister to attend Shangri-La Dialogue
    Defence Minister Andrew Little departs for Singapore tomorrow to attend the 20th annual Shangri-La Dialogue for Defence Ministers from the Indo-Pacific region. “Shangri-La brings together many countries to speak frankly and express views about defence issues that could affect us all,” Andrew Little said. “New Zealand is a long-standing participant ...
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand–China science relationship affirmed
    Research, Science and Innovation Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall and the Chinese Minister of Science and Technology Wang Zhigang met in Wellington today and affirmed the two countries’ long-standing science relationship. Minister Wang was in New Zealand for the 6th New Zealand-China Joint Commission Meeting on Science and Technology Cooperation. Following ...
    4 days ago
  • Supporting a strong future for screen sector
    5 percent uplift clearer and simpler to navigate  Domestic productions can access more funding sources 20 percent rebate confirmed for post-production, digital and visual effects Qualifying expenditure for post-production, digital and visual effects rebate dropped to $250,000 to encourage more smaller productions The Government is making it easier for the ...
    4 days ago
  • Minister Sepuloni to attend 61st Anniversary of Samoa’s Independence
    Deputy Prime Minister and Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs (Pacific Region) Carmel Sepuloni will represent New Zealand at Samoa’s 61st Anniversary of Independence commemorations in Apia. “Aotearoa New Zealand is pleased to share in this significant occasion, alongside other invited Pacific leaders, and congratulates Samoa on the milestone of 61 ...
    5 days ago
  • Govt backs retailers with expansion of fog cannon programme
    The Government is continuing to support retailers with additional funding for the highly popular Fog Cannon Subsidy Scheme, Police and Small Business Minister Ginny Andersen announced today.  “The Government is committed to improving retailers’ safety,” Ginny Andersen said.  “I’ve seen first-hand the difference fog cannons are making. Not only do ...
    5 days ago
  • Government will consider recommendations of Intelligence and Security Act review
    The Government has received the first independent review of the Intelligence and Security Act 2017, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins says. The review, considered by the Parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee, was presented to the House of Representatives today.  “Ensuring the safety and security of New Zealanders is of the utmost ...
    5 days ago
  • Govt expresses condolences on the passing of HRH Princess Sui’ilikutapu
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has expressed condolences on behalf of New Zealand to the Kingdom of Tonga following the death of Her Royal Highness Princess Mele Siu’ilikutapu Kalaniuvalu Fotofili. “New Zealand sends it’s heartfelt condolences to the people of Tonga, and to His Majesty King Tupou VI at this time ...
    5 days ago
  • Govt expresses condolences on the passing of HRH Princess Siu’ilikutapu
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has expressed condolences on behalf of New Zealand to the Kingdom of Tonga following the death of Her Royal Highness Princess Mele Siu’ilikutapu Kalaniuvalu Fotofili. “New Zealand sends it’s heartfelt condolences to the people of Tonga, and to His Majesty King Tupou VI at this time ...
    5 days ago
  • Security support to Solomon Islands extended
    Defence Minister Andrew Little and Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta have today announced the extension of the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) deployment to Solomon Islands, as part of the regionally-led Solomon Islands International Assistance Force (SIAF). “Aotearoa New Zealand has a long history of working alongside the Royal Solomon ...
    5 days ago
  • Minister Mahuta to attend the first Korea-Pacific Leaders’ Summit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta will travel to the Republic of Korea today to attend the Korea–Pacific Leaders’ Summit in Seoul and Busan. “Korea is an important partner for Aotearoa New Zealand and the Pacific region. I am eager for the opportunity to meet and discuss issues that matter to our ...
    6 days ago
  • Agreement between Indo-Pacific partners for supply chain resilience
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor joined ministerial representatives at a meeting in Detroit, USA today to announce substantial conclusion of negotiations of a new regional supply chains agreement among 14 Indo-Pacific countries. The Supply Chains agreement is one of four pillars being negotiated within the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework ...
    6 days ago
  • Celebrating Samoa Language Week 2023
    Our most spoken Pacific language is taking centre stage this week with Vaiaso o le Gagana Samoa – Samoa Language Week kicking off around the country. “Understanding and using the Samoan language across our nation is vital to its survival,” Barbara Edmonds said. “The Samoan population in New Zealand are ...
    6 days ago
  • Nationwide test of Emergency Mobile Alert system
    Over 90 per cent of New Zealanders are expected to receive this year’s nationwide test of the Emergency Mobile Alert system tonight between 6-7pm. “Emergency Mobile Alert is a tool that can alert people when their life, health, or property, is in danger,” Kieran McAnulty said. “The annual nationwide test ...
    6 days ago
  • Whakatōhea and the Crown sign Deed of Settlement
    ENGLISH: Whakatōhea and the Crown sign Deed of Settlement A Deed of Settlement has been signed between Whakatōhea and the Crown, 183 years to the day since Whakatōhea rangatira signed the Treaty of Waitangi, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little has announced. Whakatōhea is an iwi based in ...
    7 days ago
  • New Chair appointed to New Zealand National Commission for UNESCO
    Elizabeth Longworth has been appointed as the Chair of the New Zealand National Commission for UNESCO, Associate Minister of Education Jo Luxton announced today. UNESCO is the United Nations agency responsible for promoting cooperative action among member states in the areas of education, science, culture, social science (including peace and ...
    1 week ago
  • Tourism transformation starts with people
    Tourism and hospitality employer accreditation scheme to recognise quality employers Better education and career opportunities in tourism Cultural competency to create more diverse and inclusive workplaces Innovation and technology acceleration to drive satisfying, skilled jobs Strengthening our tourism workers and supporting them into good career pathways, pay and working conditions ...
    1 week ago
  • Tourism transformation starts with people
    Tourism and hospitality employer accreditation scheme to recognise quality employers Better education and career opportunities in tourism Cultural competency to create more diverse and inclusive workplaces Innovation and technology acceleration to drive satisfying, skilled jobs Strengthening our tourism workers and supporting them into good career pathways, pay and working conditions ...
    1 week ago
  • Te ao Māori health services cheaper and more accessible for whānau
      Greater access to primary care, including 193 more front line clinical staff More hauora services and increased mental health support Boost for maternity and early years programmes Funding for cancers, HIV and longer term conditions    Greater access to primary care, improved maternity care and mental health support  are ...
    1 week ago
  • Te ao Māori health services more accessible for whānau
      Greater access to primary care, including 193 more front line clinical staff More hauora services and increased mental health support Boost for maternity and early years programmes Funding for cancers, HIV and longer term conditions    Greater access to primary care, improved maternity care and mental health support  are ...
    1 week ago
  • Government’s work for survivors of abuse in care continues
    The Government continues progress on the survivor-led independent redress system for historic abuse in care, with the announcement of the design and advisory group members today. “The main recommendation of the Royal Commission of Inquiry’s Abuse in Care interim redress report was for a survivor-led independent redress system, and the ...
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2023-06-03T01:52:26+00:00