Poetic justice?

Written By: - Date published: 1:12 pm, December 1st, 2007 - 117 comments
Categories: national - Tags:

Remember when the National Party threatened the Standard with copyright infringement? Nothing ever came of it of course because we had the fair defence of satire. But at the time we figured it showed the Nats were tuned it to intellectual property rights and the misuse of others people’s material. How wrong we were. According to an article in today’s Herald our litigious mates may have bitten off more than they can chew after ripping off Coldplay’s “Clocks” for their dull and expensive John Key promotional DVD. As musicologist (and Dunedin music legend) Graham Downes puts it:

If I were approached by a lawyer to furnish a report for a prosecution of copyright infringement against the music on the DVD I would happily do so. If approached by a lawyer to furnish a report in its defence, I would decline.

It’s kinda funny that the party that considers itself the party of business and claims to be “ambitious for New Zealand” would make such a basic property rights blunder and do so while trying to riff off an overseas band rather than getting some decent original Kiwi music. I’d expect National will be getting a cease and desist from EMI sometime soon. I wonder what my copy will be worth on trademe then.

117 comments on “Poetic justice?”

  1. Robinsod 1

    Ha! – I’m not one for schadenfreude but, no… wait I so am! I can’t wait to see where this story goes – is the vid still up on the nat’s site?

    Captcha: clock coffin (someone’s gotta be rigging this thing!)

  2. thomas 2

    I have watched the DVD so many times now
    trying to work out that fucking music
    That I quite like it now
    I MUST VOTE NATIONAL
    I MUST VOTE NATIONAL
    I MUST VOTE NATIONAL
    I MUST VOTE NATIONAL
    I MUST VOTE NATIONAL
    I MUST VOTE NATIONAL
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    captcha nothing yo do with anything unless your name is MRS MAGDEBURG

  3. Robinsod 3

    She’s my mum!

  4. thomas 4

    Must be DS ‘s Gran then

  5. thomas 5

    Or should that be BS

  6. East Wellington Superhero 6

    Today’s DomPost featured a United Nations’ report showing New Zealand being behind the 8-Ball on standards of living, the less than glowing state of the healthcare system, the complete meltdown around the Graeme Burton saga and the Labour government’s manipulation of the public service.
    In light of these leadership failures by the current government, do you think it would be fair to describe your comments on the John Key DVD/Clocks situation as petty? Do you think it would be fair to say there are bigger issues to be concerned about?

  7. PhilBest 7

    For Pete’s sake you socialist saboteurs, how about getting a Captcha that works, or that isn’t rigged to make it impossible for certain identities to post?

    Second try.

    Graeme Downes can make a fool of himself over this if he wants to let his politics get in the way of his musicology. I doubt Chris Martin of Coldplay would buy into it. He would know that the originality of “Clocks” could be savaged to shreds in the courtroom. There is a world of difference between REAL “musicologists” and those that exist in the world of soundalike rock and teen pap.

  8. The Double Standard 8

    Isn’t it nice to see a Labour-funded blog talking about the important issues that face the nation. Frankly I’ve never knowingly listened to a Coldplay song, and after watching the DVD I hope I never do.

    You’d think the Nats could come up with something a little more original and upbeat.

    How many murders and rapes have been committed by prisoners on parole or bail this month eh?

    sheesh coldplay, cockplay, who gives a fuck (except The Stupid)

    And this re-captcha shit is hopeless. Most of the words aren’t.

    Col- Dilzer?
    Onkotz?
    azines?
    Stebbins?
    Munson?

  9. dave 9

    YOu have no evidence that it is coldplay. Until you do why dont you take the advice of Dear Leader – nothing to see here, move on.

  10. Robinsod 10

    Hey kids – you’re really upset aye? The Nats have been busted. It’s on the front page of the Herald. Suck it up you little crybabies.

  11. Santi 11

    It’s no good to avoid copyright issues. Much better ask someone to paint something and sign it as if it were yours. That’s what Comrade Helen calls integrity.

  12. East Wellington Superhero 12

    Have the Nats been busted? Really? I doubt it.
    Sure, it’s a fun story and it gets people reading the paper but I doubt it will come to much. Moreover, I doubt the Nats are worried.
    The DVD was made by a professional production company who, presumably, checked the rules and will probably take the fall if in fact anything wrong was done.

    Meanwhile, economic growth is stalling, politicians are unilaterally changing electoral law, government leaders have no moral or ethical compass and petty party supporters focus on stupid issues like a DVD jingles.

    Awesome.

  13. Santi 13

    East Helengrad Superhero, do not forget we lead the world in going backwards, in exporting human capital to Australia, in making people sicker and waiting for hospital services longer, in curtailing freedom with the EFB, in overtaxing the populace, in dishing out benefits to people who don’t deserve them, in hitting political opponents in the corridors of Parliament, in exporting jobs overseas, in destroying small business, in pandering to minorities, etc, etc.

    How do you dare to sat NZ is stagnating? Wake up mate.

  14. Robinsod 14

    EWS – “no moral or ethical compass” – do you realise how fruity that sounds? I mean really bro, it’s a beautiful day all around the country, you need to get out and have some fun in the real world. It’s not as scary as your mum says, y’know…

  15. Pascal's bookie 15

    It’s pretty astounding how so many commenters post dozens of comments to threads that they consider to be irrelevent.

    PhilBest of course thinks he’s an expert about music. Whatever. You can always tell the try-hards from people who actually know what they are talking about by the fact that the people who know, explain, and give examples and cites from history and such. The try-hards just bluster, accuse others of ignorance and blather on about how easily they would win if they could be arsed fronting up with some evidence.

    The modestly named East Wellington Superhero thinks that The Standard should be blogging about more important things. Who cares?
    Perhaps s/he should focus on his/her own priorities, (presumably running around Miramar in his/her undies features highly), and let others do likewise. When you start actually paying money to the Standard to be entertained or informed by them, you may be in a position to moan about their content. Till then you’re just being a dick. So stop being a dick Superhero. Great power/great responsibilty remember?

    The Standards Stalker, who apparently stole his name from a suggestion made by a regular here, lets us know that he thinks coldplay is teh SUXXOR. I kind of agree. But then he displays the stupidity that’s made him famous and wonders why the Nats weren’t more original and upbeat. That, my friends, is what as known as a really stupid question.

    They didn’t get something more original, because they are the National Party. Originality is not what they do. When they want to be hip and cool or witty and intelligent, they look for something that other people find to be cool, hip, witty or intelligent and steal it. Like you with your handle. They couldn’t do something more upbeat because they suck like that. Coldplay is upbeat and edgy stuff for your typical Nathead, that’s why they chose it. (DPF I understand lists his musical taste as ‘TOP20’ in profiles. Go figure that he’s a Nat).

    Anyway I’m out. Have a lovely weekend everyone.

  16. Lampie 16

    So that’s how it’s going to be!!!

    Nats going to rip off Kiwis! Rip off a band then us!

    Sell us out, our hospital, our schools just to satisify our greed. Our egocentric thinking.

    There’s the lefts slogan NATS FIRE SALE, GO KIWIS, TAKE AND RUN CAUSE IT IS ALL YOU ARE GOING TO GET!

  17. East Wellington Superhero 17

    Actually, I’ve already been for a wade in the water at Scorching Bay and am currently enjoying the sunny view of Evan’s Bay from my deck. I can see windsurfing, motorboating, sailing and the jets from the airport taking people around our fair nation. Beautiful. Might get a BBQ going soon.

    As for the comment about “no moral or ethical compass” sounding fruity – it’s true, Labour has no moral or ethical compass. I’m not really sure what you mean by ‘fruity’ but I stand by my belief that the Prime Minister’s chief concern these days is the pursuit of power, not democracy. The EFB is not about high-minded views of democratic participation, it’s about winning the 2008 election. I call that a lack of morality and I don’t particularly care if you think that sounds ‘fruity’. The EFB is a complete roughshod ride over freedom of expression and all that kiwi soldiers have fought for and all that freedom-of-speech activists have campaigned for in the past.

    I would ask New Zealanders to consider whether they think Labour’s vilification of the Exclusive Brethren are acts of hate-speech and ask if kiwis think Labour’s attitude towards these citizens of our nation could be described as bigoted.

    Oh, and I’m not a member of the Exclusive Brethren but even if I was, so what? Last time I checked we lived in a democracy. Someone should tell Hon. Chris Carter that.

    East Wellington is beautiful.

  18. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 18

    The EFB is a complete roughshod ride over freedom of expression and all that kiwi soldiers have fought for and all that freedom-of-speech activists have campaigned for in the past.
    If I can be so bold, that statement is bollocks

  19. East Wellington Superhero 19

    Why is it bollocks?

  20. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 20

    I’ll give you a clue “running roughshod over all that kiwi soldiers have fought for”

    I just saw the march on TVNZ Swastikas, Labour are fascists posters
    Talk about shrill. Talk out of perspective

    I do NOT know of ONE person the EFB is going to effect not ONE

    Fuck me, Kiwi soldiers fought and died fighting real fascists people who used actually Swastikas and who brutally murdered millions of people
    Its cunts like you who cheapen Kiwi soldiers sacrifice that I can’t stand

  21. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 21

    AND further more If you were to ask most of those brave soldiers, would they have liked to see their country taken over by a lying scumbag whose main backers and objective was to have New Zealand policies and direction bought by a group or already rich citizens? whose sole intention was to look after themselves and fuck everyone else?
    They would have probably shot you,
    And who could blame them ?

  22. thomas (formally knowed as thomas) 22

    Ha ha, I really fooled you guys this time eh?

    Nah I realllly like dear Helen and I thhhink she is grate lol.

    pwnd!

  23. John 23

    Now that is a double standard isn’t it?

    One law for the Nats and one law for everyone else.

    Then again, they were the party that brought us parallel importing which hurt intellectual property owners in the music, film, publishing and entertainment industry. So, National stealing Coldplay’s property should not have been a surprise. It is in their nature.

    The idea that National is the party of business is a joke. They understand the 1970s farm economy, but not much else.

  24. Dean 24

    So, wait.

    First the standard says it’s definitely Clocks by Coldplay, and now its not.

    All because it was in the “granny herald” you guys love to hate so much, too.

    Are you ever going to get your stories straight before you hit the post button?

  25. Lee C 25

    5000 ( ) at the march against the EFB today in Auckland.

  26. J 26

    I think this “Coldplay” issue is amazing. It’s absurd that so many people on the right have no idea about music “copyright” laws; laws that have prevailed for decades. It’s amazing the so called party of “business” stumble into one of the most fundamental business principles of the music industry, “No Plagiarism”. ……and then idiots call it a piffling matter. A billion dollar publishing industry we’re talking here; let alone the disgusting connection of a prominent leftwing artist to a right wing politician,( for the record Coldplay are hardly my favorite band.) Read up on business law before you post.

    p.s there are very few rightwing artists, makes ya think. The first world right wing and their visionless future of striving hardworkers helping the rich get richer fucks off anyone with true progressive vision.Get your own art.

  27. The Double Standard 27

    “One law for the Nats and one law for everyone else.”

    Hahahhahahaaa John, nice one

    everyone in NZ knows that Teh Party holds the “get out of jail free” card in NZ

    Exactly how many “no public interest” escapes have there been by Labour

    lessee

    1 Helen Clark – forgery
    2 Helen Clark – license to speed
    3 Benson Pope – tennis balls in mouth
    4 Benson Pope – dodgy showers
    5 Parker – something to do with companies
    6 Mallard – common assault
    7 Heather Simpson/Mike Smith – illegal electoral funding
    ….

    The only one that has been stuck (so far) is TPF, which is remarkable, I guess it must have been tooo bad for him.

    If the Nats are sued in court (although its likely to be the production company anyway), let them take their medicine. I’m sure they’ll take it like men, unlike the front-bums at Labour who like to dodge responsibility.

    Tell us John – do you believe in the Rule of Law or not???

  28. Lee C 28

    Lee C Says: (cutnpaste from the other blog)

    December 1st, 2007 at 8:10 pm
    Re the recent two days’ developments about the EFB. I thought I’d go for a bt of balance and read the Very Double Standard’s take on this; after all they have ridiculed previous low-turn-outs as proof that the anti-EFB movement is made up of a few white, middle-class blah blahs.

    So I wondered what their responses to both the turnout, and yesterday the Dominion Post’s stance against the EFB might be, because they have previously atacked the Herald’s stance against the EFB as proof that The Herald is a ‘National Party propaganda organ’.

    Guess what?

    nothing about either.

    They are dealing with the cutting-edge stuff over there, stuff that matters. Stuff around which elections are won or lost.

    Like whether the recent John Key video which features a rough ‘sound-alike’ to ‘Clocks’ has infringed copyright of a Coldplay song.

  29. redbus 29

    Teh Party
    – Seriously! WHY DO YOU SAY ‘Teh’?????

  30. nih 30

    Redbus: he’s one of those chatty little internet lamers who used to think saying ‘teh’ instead of ‘the’ was cool. Now it’s some sort of insult or something. I don’t know. It’s not a very good one. Perhaps it’s maori-bashing? Yes? No? Pretty ambiguous bit of deliberate misspelling really.

  31. nih 31

    Dean

    What did I say about creating more logins? Your desperate attempt to appear as if you have a multitude of support by posting under other names is evil and stupid.

    Only one far-right person posts on KBB and The Standard and it’s you. You’re responsible for pretty much all the invective. Have you ever questioned just how anti-democratic your behaviour is?

    Go on, compare yourself to freedom fighters such as RobertOwen, who actually waits until he’s banned before creating a new login.

    Yeah, I didn’t think so. You’ve shown you’re only 1/15th the man he or any of us are.

  32. The Double Standard 32

    “- Seriously! WHY DO YOU SAY ‘Teh’?????”

    Ur – coz I lernt NZEA enlgish?

    My bad must be a hbt i pcked up on dNet

    pwned!

    lol

    Wrld fms M8

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2006-11-13-text-speak_x.htm

  33. redbus 33

    TDS, I think you’ll find that New Zealand schools do not teach txt language. However, during an exam, when students are prone to revert to habits while trying to remember the many facts and techniques they were taught throughout the year, some write the odd word in txt language. In the same way that the odd spelling mistake is permitted in 600 word essays written within an hour. As long as the answer is readable, then the answer is subjected to the marking schedule. Txt language is not, I repeat, taught in New Zealand schools. If you think that you’re the counter of The Standard, then you’re totally inept as it … How about offering something worthwhile? We would prefer you do not bring the bile of Kiwiblog to The Standard. Thank you.

  34. Lampie 34

    Another gracious present left by the Nats of the 90s. The incoming Labour Govt. had to run with it as already had been implemented into the education system

  35. Lampie 35

    Thats NCEA I’m talking about

  36. redbus 36

    What’s wrong with NCEA? I think it’s far superior to the old system. Care to compare?

  37. Lampie 37

    5000 ( ) at the march against the EFB today in Auckland

    What happens when you organise it for a weekend

  38. Lampie 38

    The point is that people (mostly right wingers) have forgot that National actually changed it and blame Labour for it.

    As you say compare, as I’m not a teacher but wife is, I would ask her to comment but she doesn’t really care for politics

  39. gobsmacked 39

    It’s what happens when you make (sorry, buy) 80,000 phone calls.

    I got one. Mr Boscawen sounded very ANGRY. He should join Christine Rankin in the therapy group. Shout, shout, let it all out.

  40. Lampie 40

    What’s wrong with NCEA? I think it’s far superior to the old system

    As in marking a child’s ability i.e. trig vs stats? Old system past one fail other, fail overall vs pass one fail one, can still pass

  41. Lampie 41

    It’s what happens when you make (sorry, buy) 80,000 phone calls

    Hmmm ^.25% hit rate, not good hahaha

  42. Lampie 42

    shit 6.25% even

  43. East Wellington Superhero 43

    RE: More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas)

    I guess I’m not going to convince you but I’d like to say that your failure to appreciate that the abusive excesses of the Italian Fascists and Nazis came about after a piece-meal sqeezing-out of free-speech and other civil liberties is concerning.

    Also, to suggest that National Party MPs are bought and don’t care about other New Zealanders is completely ridiculous and such silly comments make it hard to take you seriously.

    The EFB is terrible. Every newspaper in the country is opposed to it. The Human Rights Commission condemns it. The bill’s passage through the House has been secretive which is terrible considering this is election law in a nation where Parliament is sovereign.

    Also, I was offended by being labelled as a “cunt”. If you want people to respect you and your views then you need to be a bit more respectful.

    If TheStandard is going to have any street-cred then submitters need to voluntarily clean-up their arguments and their language.

  44. Gruela 44

    But are any of you righties prepared to argue against the merits of SOME form of legislation to restrict third party spending during an election cycle, and complete transparency for donations over a nominal limit?

    Is it the EFB you’re against, or an open election?

  45. The Double Standard 45

    “But are any of you righties prepared to argue against the merits of SOME form of legislation to restrict third party spending during an election cycle, and complete transparency for donations over a nominal limit?”

    I’d be fine with with no anon donations over some amount, maybe a couple of k, and making them nz-resident only.

    Third party spending is more tricky – I support the principle, but recognize it is hard in practice. Making the limit fairly high should help there.

    Thomas is obviously having trouble coping with people marching to oppose his rather rapid position tonite.

    Rum time!

  46. Gruela 46

    Okay, I’m down with it being poorly drafted legislation. But I do think the need was there, and I do think the reaction to it from some quarters has been OTT.

  47. Dean 47

    Nih, I’d love to know how you’ve arrived at the conclusion that I’m someone else logging in under a different name. You shouldn’t play at being an internet detective because quite frankly you’re not much good at it.

  48. Nick C 48

    On a more positive note i hear they got at least 5000 at the anti-EFB march 2day. You guys were raving about how they got so few to the other ones, why no post on the latest one?

  49. East Wellington Superhero 49

    I would argue that civil society needs to have as much strength as it can to provide a balance against the power of the state. That’s the reason we have democracy. Limiting third parties, limits the voice and power of civil society.

    There is no evidence that money buys elections – it certainly didn’t help National in 2005!

    I used to believe in banning anonymity but considering the beat-up that the EB got and Labour’s (but not just Labour, I’m sure a National govt could do it too) current tendency to attack people, I now think anonymity should be protected. They reason the West largely has secret-ballot elections is because they protect people from attack.

  50. Gruela 50

    “There is no evidence that money buys elections”

    ’nuff said.

  51. r0b 51

    “There is no evidence that money buys elections”

    ’nuff said.

    Indeed. Somebody should tell the multi billion dollar advertising industry that opinion cannot be bought. They’ll probably want to clear out their desks.

  52. East Wellington Superhero 52

    I am going to bed.
    Goodnight.

  53. Amateur Scrabbler 53

    Two points:

    1. The tweaking and slight rearrangement of popular songs and then calling them original material by the rip-off ‘artists’, is despicable to my mind, and is plainly designed to steal from the work’s first composer. Somewhere else here someone mentioned Massive Attack’s work coming under fire on this front, and I also have heard Iggy Pop’s Lust for Life been done this way for a beer commercial(?) here in NZ.

    2. When I watch the video, I really sense a lack of gravitas in Key. I think everything could unravel for him when the battle-hardened leaders of the other parties set their sights on him in the campaign proper. Sure, he can ‘stay on-message’ in the safe environment of a professionally shot video, but in a televised debate I think the wheels might well come off big-time…

  54. Lee C 54

    Ah yes the secret ballot. I wonder why that was introduced? Was it to protect the weak from the bullies?

    The charge in defence of the EFB now, is for critics of the EFB to ‘come up with something better’.

    But that is why we elect representatives, to do the job of proposing legislation which will reflect public opinion.

    How do they devine public opinon? Why, by asking the public.

    it is disingenous to accuse critics of not having better ideas than the ones who come up with the laws, fter the laws have been drafted without proper public consultation.

    Did the National Socialists defend the ‘Final Solution’ with the retort, ‘Well you come up with something better!’ probably. because it is a response, based on a subjectively constructed vrsion of ‘the problem’.

    When, if you asked the German people back in 1934 if Jews needed exterminating, they probably would have said ‘no’.

    Excuse the extreme analogy – it is just an analogy. I am not trying to belittle the suffering of teh Jews under Hitler, o compare Te Labor Part of NZ to the atina Socialists.

    The point is, that we could have ‘come up with something better’ if we (the people) had been asked beforehand, and if the questions asked had been sensible ones..

    But we weren’t. Labour, the Greens, NZ First etc went ahead and threw together this joke of a Bill, then tried to ram it through under cover, because they knew it would not withstnd public scrutiny or debate.

    Now, they are accusing its critics of ‘hysteria’ or demeaning them based on their social grouping, numbers, or ethnicity.

    but the fact remains, they ar eelected to serve the electorate, not to doictate to it, and they appear to have forgotten that.

  55. r0b 55

    He hasn’t been convincing in parliament either, which is not a good sign (for Key). The sprout has some good videos up:

    http://thesprout.vodpod.com/

    See especially number 6 (help i’m drowning).

    But time (and only time) will tell.

  56. r0b 56

    He hasn’t been convincing in parliament either, which is not a good sign (for Key). The sprout has some good videos up:

    http://thesprout.vodpod.com/

    See especially number 6 (help i’m drowning).

    But time (and only time) will tell.

  57. r0b 57

    Hmm – no idea how that appeared twice!

  58. Lee C 58

    Becaus you have been drunkinging

  59. Lee C 59

    sori – drinkunginign…
    i meen …… fuck

  60. Lee C 60

    PS re the EFB:

    ‘If approached by a lawyer to furnish a report in its defence, I would decline.”

  61. r0b 61

    It’s entirely possible that one of us has been drinking Lee. Goodnight!

  62. Lee C 62

    Roger and out!

  63. Gruela 63

    Lee C

    Actually, secret ballots were introduced to stop moneyed interests from buying votes.

    The fact that (at most) 6000 marchers congregated in Auckland is a prime indicator of public opinion: very few people think that the EFB is the first step down into the abyss of Nazism, or some other form of fascist state. This is because most NZers are still rational and reasonable people, and realise that even if the Bill is flawed, there is still a need for it.

    A sense of perspective from the right would be greatly appreciated.

  64. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 64

    Also, I was offended by being labelled as a “cunt”.
    Your the one that said
    The EFB is a complete roughshod ride over freedom of expression and all that kiwi soldiers have fought for
    I was offended by that
    I also am offended by you lot brandishing swastikas and labelling the Government fascist

    You tone down your rhetoric and I’ll tone down mine

  65. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 65

    The EFB is a complete roughshod ride over freedom of expression and all that kiwi soldiers have fought for

  66. Gruela 66

    Interestingly, I used to be one of those soldiers. We didn’t give a f**k about freedom of expression, or the flag or the Queen, for that matter. A soldier does what his officers tell him, and they do what their Govt. tells them. Do anything else, and you’re not a soldier anymore.

    (It really bugs me how ‘old soldiers’ sometimes get dragged into these debates.)

  67. Amateur Scrabbler 67

    r0b: Cheers for the link. Interesting to watch the #6.

    He’s got the indecision shuffle going on. Several times he’s about to jump to his feet and then he decides against it.

    Which really is pretty damning. ‘I can’t decide whether to defend myself or not’.

    A few more years in the bear-pit and he’d probably be able to hold his own, but he ain’t there by a long shot.

    Purely as a hypothetical, but will National dump Key in the Brash-esque fashion if he doesn’t get them over the line?

    English has a LOT more game-time, and I sense he’s more of a brawler at heart. With Key, I’ve yet to observe his killer-instinct. Has he actually savaged *anyone* in Parliament?

  68. Gruela 68

    Is there anyone other than English they could elevate?

  69. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 69

    If key doesn’t get them over the line
    they will disintegrate into their factions
    which would be sad to see 🙂

    something to look forward to then

  70. Historian 70

    Our old soldiers fought Hitler (hooray) on the same side as Stalin (boo) but with Churchill (hooray) and a Labour PM (boo) and our German King (er, hooray, boo, um …).

  71. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 71

    Is there anyone other than English they could resurrect?

  72. Gruela 72

    It’s Rodney Hide I feel sorry for in all this. (Come to think of it, I’ve always felt sorry for Rodney Hide.)

  73. More soporific then a John Key DVD(formerly known as Thomas) 73

    And they could elevate Brownlee but it would take a few 🙂

  74. Gruela 74

    It would take some gerrymandering.

  75. Amateur Scrabbler 75

    Haha nice one Gruela. 😉

    But seriously, Brownlee seems a vaguely unknown quantity. To me he seems to be ‘the muscle’, who can heavy-hit as needed. (Shoring up Brash on occasion as I remember). Sharp enough to lead? Hard to say…

    I believe that English has been consolidating his support within the party, and staying relatively ‘under cover’ (as far as public perceptions go) over the last two terms.

    I think the Key excision would be swift (this is assuming the Nats lose the next election). English would start the next campaign immediately, and try to force an early election.

    All speculation of course. I just think English has been biding his time, and taking a long-term view… I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like him bringing Rich with along as deputy.

  76. Gruela 76

    Well, they’re stuck with Key for now. I just honestly can’t see him pulling it off. I predict that when he gets into a head to head debate with the other leaders the man is going to fall apart.

    Well, night all.

  77. Amateur Scrabbler 77

    Gruela: Agreed. The National Party hierarchy ‘made their bed’ and ‘now they’ve got to sleep in it’, with their endorsement of Key as leader.

    The televised leader’s debates will be Key’s ultimate undoing. Just in time for the election, when the majority of the electorate is finally watching the political blood-sports.

    I reckon Labour may have made a calculated move to Key slide for this long, in order to prevent him from hardening up to any large degree…

    And also, a general supplemental… pursuant to the ‘Ambition’ announcement, but where’s the frickin policy National ?!

    Oh no, wait… It’s the Tax Cuts isn’t it? 🙂

  78. The Double Standard 78

    “reckon Labour may have made a calculated move to Key slide for this long, in order to prevent him from hardening up to any large degree.”

    So you think its a deliberate strategy by Labour to irritate the electorate so much that they are 13% behind in the polls, just to sucker-punch Key?

    Yeah Right!

    What a dick.

    Cap: left cynanide – just right!

  79. John 79

    Hey Double nice to hear from you.

    Of course I believe in the rule of law and I also believe in letting the justice system enforce that law. It is not up to people like you or me to decide who is prosecuted and who is not. It is for the Police and the Courts to decided and in each of the cases you list, they decided you are wrong.

    It stuck to TPF because the Police and the Courts saw grounds that justified spending Police and Court time on the case. It is as simple as that. By the way, in my opinion I think they were right, but I guess ultimately its up to the justice system to decide.

    The problem with you and your side of the aisle is that you keep trying to turn mole hills into mountains. Like any good political operative you take a bit of truth and try to spin it into something that will do damage. Often this is done to cover up your own inadequacies as a party.

    You count on enough people being fooled by your nonsense to make a difference. By the way, Herald reporters are pretty good at being fooled. So, you maybe on to a good thing.

    Fortunately, though, I think most New Zealanders are smarter than that and they see these tactics as side shows – amusing side shows, but side shows all the same.

    Key hasn’t been around long, but a list along your lines can already be started for him:

    1. Key – Something to do with Equity Corp criminals
    2. Key – Lies on Electoral Office statutory document
    3. Key – Thief (or plagiarist if you prefer)

    Are any of those going to get Mr Key jail time – no. And, they probably shouldn’t, but if you want politically spun lists we can do that.

  80. John 80

    Hey Double nice to hear from you.

    Of course I believe in the rule of law and I also believe in letting the justice system enforce that law. It is not up to people like you or me to decide who is prosecuted and who is not. It is for the Police and the Courts to decided and in each of the cases you list, they decided you are wrong.

    It stuck to TPF because the Police and the Courts saw grounds that justified spending Police and Court time on the case. It is as simple as that. By the way, in my opinion I think they were right, but I guess ultimately its up to the justice system to decide.

    The problem with you and your side of the aisle is that you keep trying to turn mole hills into mountains. Like any good political operative you take a bit of truth and try to spin it into something that will do damage. Often this is done to cover up your own inadequacies as a party.

    You count on enough people being fooled by your nonsense to make a difference. By the way, Herald reporters are pretty good at being fooled. So, you maybe on to a good thing.

    Fortunately, though, I think most New Zealanders are smarter than that and they see these tactics as side shows – amusing side shows, but side shows all the same.

    Key hasn’t been around long, but a list along your lines can already be started for him:

    1. Key – Something to do with Equity Corp criminals
    2. Key – Lies on Electoral Office statutory document
    3. Key – Thief (or plagiarist if you prefer)

    Are any of those going to get Mr Key jail time – no. And, they probably shouldn’t, but if you want politically spun lists we can do that.

  81. Santi 81

    “Okay, I’m down with it being poorly drafted legislation. But I do think the need was there,” Exactly what your intellectual predecessor, some chap named Adolf, said in Germany circa 1933.

    Gruela you’re a tower of intellect, almost a giant. With people like you and Mallard the Labour Party will go far.

  82. Oh, brilliant. A Left-wing commenter who spends seven paragraphs giving his interpretation on the rule of law, and then proceeds to defame John Key.

    All this, just a matter of hours after Redbus says: “We would prefer you do not bring the bile of Kiwiblog to The Standard.”

  83. r0b 83

    And right on cue, up pops IP. He reminds me a bit of that enchanter in The Holy Grail. Pops up with a bad attitude, lobs a few fireballs at random targets, then slips away when the going gets tough.

  84. Admit it, r0b: the Standard claims to offer a left-wing perspective without the bile of kiwiblog. Yet the Standard condones commenters who defame others.

    If you’ve got admin rights, r0b, I strongly suggest you delete the assertions that John Key had “something to do with the Equiticorp criminals”, that he lied on a statutory document, and that he stole and/or plagiarised. Each of those statements is deeply defamatory.

  85. Gruela 85

    Santi

    Just how despicable can you get? Now we know.
    Comparing me to Adolf Hitler.

    You have proven yourself to be without any sense of objectivity, reason or morality.

  86. r0b 86

    That was his name. Tim the Enchanter.

    Admit it, r0b: the Standard claims to offer a left-wing perspective without the bile of kiwiblog.

    The Standard doesn’t claim anything much. Some of us who post here hope for a better standard of debate, but as numbers have grown, inevitably there’s lots of aggressive stuff appearing.

    Yet the Standard condones commenters who defame others.

    If “condones” means allows them to post, then yes of course. Its a blog. People post. One defamatory comment was removed once. Other than that, The Standard doesn’t censor people (unlike Kiwiblog). Free speech. Hurrah.

    If you’ve got admin rights, r0b

    Nope, I’m just a poster here. Gotta go, ciao.

  87. Robinsod 87

    Hey Prick – get over yourself you hypocrite. I’ve seen the vile shit you post and now you want to take the high ground? You’re a joke, Punter.

  88. The Double Standard 88

    Hahahaaa – Robbo thinks IP is a hypocrite. Let me into a little secret Robbo – every regular who visits here knows who spouts the vile shit and it’s you.

    Lol – do you have a mirror in your hovel?

  89. Santi 89

    “Comparing me to Adolf Hitler.”. No, no, Gruela. You obviously have an inflated opinion of your own abilities.

    I has referring to Adolf Dumbweiss, a cobbler and part-time chimney sweeper from Upper Silesia, whose IQ seems to be on par with yours.

  90. You really do take the cake, Robinsod. In case you’ve forgotten, here is merely a selection of some of your vile posts over the last six weeks. And the Standard has the gall to call Kiwiblog’s posters vile!

    Nov 2nd, 2007 at 11:31 am
    And Lee do you still beat your wife. Don’t you have a job or something?

    Nov 19th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
    IP – quick take that story to the herald, your facts are obviously watertight! You’re full of shit prick.

    Nov 14th, 2007 at 7:37 am
    Bill you psychopath – I’ve been getting a good night’s sleep. You should try it some time. It may reduce your psychosis.

    Nov 14th, 2007 at 9:21 am
    Yes Bil, just as well. I’m sure Whale’s respect for you will increase now – he may even acknowledge you on the street. When you act like Whale’s sycophant you really show how much you are on the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe, Bill.

    Oct 19th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
    Wodge, why would I bother talking to you – you’re just a punter for crying out loud.

    Oct 19th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
    Burt – you’re a pugnacious bastard, I’ll give you that. Obtuse for sure but pugnacious. You’re not a computer programme are you?

    Nov 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
    IP – I’d charge you but I don’t think you could afford to pay me out out of your benefit. Go back to punter-land son.

    Oct 14th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
    Burt you are the most consistently disingenuous commenter I’ve seen for a while. Have you considered Ritalin for your problem?

    Oct 31st, 2007 at 10:05 am
    Claws – I said “Fuck off”

    Oct 15th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
    Burt – you’re wrong. You’ve asked this shit before and you don’t listen to the answers. Fuck off and take your Ritalin.

    Nov 15th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
    Really DPF claws? Not at all like how you scored the exclusive polling contract for National?
    Nov 15th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
    Question time in the house today was frustrating as Labour sought to lie about why the were not releasing the papers from the Ministry of Justice.
    Are you frustrated Monty? You could always try wanking. It won’t really make you go blind (and that’s not the only lie your mum told you). Go on monty – it’ll make you feel calmer and it’s better than spraying your vile lickspittle juice over the pages of the standard. For true bro.

    Nov 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
    DPF Claws – Fuck off (that should give you the victim-fix you’re after)

    Robinsod (moderator)
    Nov 7th, 2007 at 10:29 am
    DPF Claws – Of course I took my smart pills (hint: you can tell ‘cos I’m smarter than you). Did you take your neuroleptics? I’m sure they’re helping with your multiple personality disorder.
    19 Tane
    Nov 7th, 2007 at 10:35 am
    ‘sod bro, stop being a dick. You’re not a moderator. Nobody in their right mind would let you moderate anything – you can’t even moderate your own behaviour.

    Oct 31st, 2007 at 5:48 pm
    .and Clem (nah he’s old isn’t he) and Chester and Pansy (I quite like her) and Georgina whoops she’s still on the party shit-list for being brown isn’t she (oh and it was so funny when Gerry was Maori spokesman wasn’t it? and there’s.

    Oct 31st, 2007 at 9:35 pm
    What like you?? Get real santa and/or fuck off.

    Oct 31st, 2007 at 3:18 pm
    Yo Santa – I was just concerned for your education, there’s no need to come over all catty. Oh yeah – Fuck off (I think I forgot last time)

    Nov 1st, 2007 at 3:22 pm
    Bryce – you’re an arse. I’ve been following your comments on this blog for a while and (surprisingly for me) keeping my mouth shut but someone from the libertarian left has to say this mate – you’re living in a dream world if you think bagging Labour with Tory lines (‘cos that’s what you’re recycling) is going to make things better.

    Nov 13th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
    Bill you old psychopath – they let you out! How’d you get away with it? I hear you carved your initials in her corpse – is that true bro?

    Nov 13th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
    Bill – you sound like you’re losing it. Don’t hurt anyone and try not to sent anymore hate mail to Helen – the SIS is gonna have to stop being understanding about it at some stage, ok?

  91. Santi 91

    I side with IP on this one. For vileness nothing worse than Robinsond.

  92. Gruela 92

    Santi

    Keep going. Your posts are an eloquent guide to the value and insight of your opinions.

    I’m sure that everyone who reads them will give them precisely the attention they deserve.

  93. Santi 93

    Relax Gruela and enjoy the last few months in power before this (yours?) mob of socialists bite the dust, as they thoroughly deserve it.

  94. The Double Standard 94

    Santi – Gruela seems to be to the left of the Greens. I doubt that Teh Party is her mob.

  95. Gruela 95

    I thought my mob was the Nazi party?

    (Incidentally, I’m male.)

  96. The Double Standard 96

    (Incidentally, I’m male.)

    Oops, sorry

    I did wonder when I was writing that comment, but decided to take a punt. I guess I was thinking of Cruella de Ville

  97. Robinsod 97

    Jeez – you guys have been stalking me. I’m touched, it’s like a walk down memory lane (you forgot the things I said about Bevan’s mum though) – I never said I was a choirboy I just pointed out you weren’t either. Guess what? I’m not the one bitching about it, you are. That make you a hypocrite – look it up.

    Oh and Prick – I’m getting closer to figuring out who you are – I’ve had a couple of good tips…

    Own. Medicine. Taste of.

  98. robinnome you should be a lot more concerned about people finding out who you are.
    Interesting post on DPF at the moment. The VRWC is running a book on who the guilty party is. You are at very short odds.

  99. nih 100

    BB: haven’t you threatened to cut up Robinsod and leave parts of him in wheelie bins? That was you, wasn’t it? Can you clarify?

    In light of those comments, perhaps your veiled threats above need some police attention.

  100. Breathtaking hypocrisy, lesson 20483 from the Standard:

    Robinsod claims he’s being stalked. In the very next sentence, he claims to be stalking another blogger.

    nih: your comments on this blog are hardly a credit to the labour movement, either.

  101. nih 102

    My comments are brilliant and splendid totems to humility.

  102. nih, I had previously thought that you were less toxic than robinnome. Wrong again!

  103. nih 104

    What, no mention of dismemberment? I’m disappointed. Up until now you far and beyond ranked as the most psychotic poster on The Standard.

    I guess it’s hard work maintaining 15 logins and still being uniquely creative. I look forward to all of your sockpuppet voices blending into one.

  104. thats rich coming from you nih. I have one user name across all the different blogs and forums I post on, with your puerile repetition of robinnomes vile comments you leave yourself wide open to similar comments.

  105. nih 106

    Yeah, I bet I’ll get dismembered. That’ll teach me to have an opinion different from yours.

    Disgusting fringe psychopath.

  106. nih/robinsod or whatever “nick” you want to use…can one of you step back from the circle jerk just long enough to explain where the dismemberment comments are coming from? Although whistling up your crazy comments is fun, the whole chopping up thing is a little strange and i am curious to know why??

  107. nih 108

    Just because the right sockpuppets doesn’t mean normal people do too. This is the only handle I use. You’ll never come close to having that kind of honour.

    Now play stupid and pretend you didn’t threaten to “chop everyone up”. Good boy. Have a bikkie.

  108. Robinsod 109

    Bill – I believe your reputation as a psycho began when you tacitly threatened Rogernome:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/11/no_prosecutions_under_the_terrorism_suppression_act.html#comment-364000

    Add that to your repugnant blog postings and your “silence of the lambs “-type infatuation with Whale and you’re a pretty good contender for most sociopathic rightie…

  109. nih 110

    Oh, snap!

    You’re a psychopath but nobody is afraid of you. It’d make a great Adam Sandler movie.

  110. Robinsod 111

    Oh and Bill – I’d say the only way you could get a grown man to fit in a wheelie bin would be dismemberment. So do you like spend your evening sharping your knives?

  111. Robert owen 112

    As the debate has sunk to a low level It appears that I, the dirtbag extraordinaire. can now participate.

    I find it incredible that people so abusive as Redbaiter and D4J . And plainly disgusting as Stanley climbfall can still log on.

    Whereas little old me, never said anything that abusive,is banned for life

    The mistake I made was to find out that DPF was posting under a different identity any called him up on it.
    I santa (me) said “If you can lie about that how can we believe anything you say”
    Surely thats not as bad as Stanley posting links of women crapping into cups ?
    I guess i got to close to the truth I think that
    David can be compared to some sort of spoilt adolescent youth ,the immature attitude to women, the vanity and not having the maturity to accept criticism and admit when wrong.
    Now I’m sure socially Davis is a very “nice’ person. Indeed generally people who exhibit the same sort have behaviours as DPF have to be loved by one and all because of the deep insecurities that lie deep and buried within
    [and I should know 🙂 ]

    Ok goodnight one and all

  112. Just in case somebody other than you fuckwits read this I will post the whole comment that I made with regard to robinnome over on kiwiblog.
    The robinnome had been particularly abusive that night towards many posters and everybody was heartily sick of his vile dribble.

    I wrote; “David, you wrote
    “This is a huge blow to Police credibility.”
    The credibility of Helens police service has been eroded at an increasingly frantic pace ever since she Lied to the SST about Doone. Since that night of the long knives against our police, they have succumbed completely to the will of Clarke and her party.
    It is now 6 days since WE ALL witnessed an aggravated assault by a member of the labour party on film.
    has he been charged? Has anybody in the labour party been charged with anything in the last few years?
    People too stupid to read now know the words prima facie.
    Each time these mutts break another law we all wail for a few weeks and then let it go, until the next time and then the cycle begins again.. ad infinitum.
    I wrote at the time of the arrests that this would all be a big beat up and so it has come to pass.
    A few drunk maori and fellow travellers have a whinge in the woods, having a big whiny circle jerk, is not terrorism.
    The timing of these arrests was suspect at best and deliberate at worst. Clarkes new terror laws are currently before parliament and the right response from the solicitor general today would have helped clarkes plans immensely.
    Lucky for all of us Broad and Clarke have been shown up for the liars they are.
    And roger nome. you must have compromising photos of david because if you came into my house and behaved the way you do here you would be going home in a wheelie bin.”
    Hardly a Thomas Harris moment!
    But keep making the highly defamatory comments weeman, I am impervious to your drivel.

  113. Robinsod 114

    Bill you old psycho – you seem very touchy about your reputation. As I’ve said before you may want to consider not saying and doing repugnant things if you don’t want to be viewed as repugnant. I get the feeling you don’t want to stop being a psycho though so you may just have to learn to deal with the fact that people find you creepy.

    Oh and Bill? Your whining about defamation doesn’t cut it when you’re making shit like this up about people:

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=node/5394#comment-10148

    And y’know what? I get the feeling you still won’t see what’s wrong with your behavior – you may even blame me for pointing it out. That’s what makes you a sociopath.

  114. it’s true robinnome, he has admitted it himself. they have been in a relationship since his partner was a student.
    I see you post over there as robinson rather than robinsod. Why is that?

  115. Robinsod 116

    Bill – I think you’ll find that he was a student at the time. Your use of the term “school boy” is an attempt to paint the man as a pedophile. You know that full well but prefer to use innuendo to smear people and then disingenuously pretend you didn’t really mean that at all – it seems you are a coward as well as a psycho.

    Oh and “Robinson” is my old handle – I still use it where “Robinsod” is blocked – except on NZ conservative ‘cos I kinda like them and “robinson” is a more polite handle.

  116. nih 117

    Hey Bill, is that your real name? Are you a West Aucklander? Because I actually know someone with your issues, back story and attitude problems.

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