Refreshing honesty from English

Written By: - Date published: 12:44 pm, January 13th, 2017 - 58 comments
Categories: bill english, International, spin, Spying - Tags: , , , , ,

Bill English yesterday – New Zealand faces ‘possible’ election hacking

US spies have found Russia ordered an ‘influence campaign’ during the US election, and President-elect Donald Trump has finally acknowledged Russia did hack Hillary Clinton’s campaign emails.

Mr English says our elections could be hacked as well.

“It’s possible I suppose – just why someone would want to interfere with our elections would be hard to imagine.”

Indeed.

However, Mr English doesn’t believe our involvement in this spying system makes us more vulnerable.

“I wouldn’t think so, no – it actually means we can work with others who can understand our systems and get the benefit of their expertise,” he says.

And Mr English doesn’t know if we face any specific danger from Russian spying.

“Look I really don’t know,” Mr English says.

“One of New Zealand’s benefits is because we’re a long way away and fairly small we don’t attract too much attention.”

A nice change from the Nats’ usual style of the big scary beat-up – who could forget the non-existant ‘Jihadi brides’ threat, and the ‘returning foreign fighters’ threat?

So let’s hear it for a bit of refreshing honesty. I guess there’s no need for all that domestic spying apparatus then?

58 comments on “Refreshing honesty from English”

  1. greywarshark 1

    We need to attract attention to our country but the right sort of attention for us, not because of more political disasters and vicious and inhumane attacks.

    Maintaining the economy through continuing tourism and intriguing the world about our country’s products, and also the lasting effects of our efforts to produce a special culture that was humane and racially biased to getting on with each other.

    This is interesting – what art did for Bilbao’s (Spain) life.

    The Bilbao effect: How 20 years of Gehry’s Guggenheim transformed the city
    12 January 2017
    Twenty years ago, Bilbao was scarred by acts of terrorism and failing industry. The city decided to gamble on Frank Gehry’s Guggenheim Museum. Not only did it help to save Bilbao, it also showed the world the transformative effect of art. WILLIAM COOK meets its director on its anniversary.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1HL3drXNNWQVq7tpC6pMRsJ/the-bilbao-effect-how-20-years-of-gehrys-guggenheim-transformed-the-city

    • Glenn 1.1

      Bilbao Effect is working in New Plymouth with the opening of The Len Lye Centre. Fantastic way out building and unusual art from one of the masters. I don’t like the “art” and thought our council was nuts at the time it was suggested but it has certainly done wonders for New Plymouth tourism.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.2

      We need to attract attention to our country

      Why?

      Maintaining the economy through continuing tourism and intriguing the world about our country’s products, and also the lasting effects of our efforts to produce a special culture that was humane and racially biased to getting on with each other.

      If you want the latter then you can’t do the former (ignoring the nonsensical construct of the latter part of the sentence).

      • greywarshark 1.2.1

        Sorry DTB but you are so out of it. I have never heard anything from you that would produce any useful answer to our employment needs. Perhaps you could open a centre for the dissemination of left wing political thoughtfor international students.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1

          Ah, so, without being able to support your assertions you revert to ad hominem attacks.

          Got it.

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.1

            DracoTB
            You spend all your time asserting your ideas and finding someone else’s authority to rely on.

            I actually spend time looking for something practical that can help now and prevent wipe-out in the future. And I look for others more informed than I am to see what ideas are being advanced.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.1.1

              You spend all your time asserting your ideas and finding someone else’s authority to rely on.

              No, I spend time looking at what’s happening in the world, thinking about it and then putting forward my ideas. I back those ideas with the research that I’ve found explaining how they interact.

              So, why do we need the world to notice us?
              Why do you think NZ can have a lot of tourism while maintaining our “special culture”?

  2. Clump_AKA Sam 2

    Trump said words to the effect that there where 17 possible entities that hacked DNC servers and Russia was one of them. So every one does it, but it’s not election tampering, they just want to know who they will likely work with. We do it to, for Grossers bid to the UN (I believe happy to be corrected)

    So this is the pot calling the kettle black

    • aerobubble 2.1

      Its not that Russia did or did not, its that Trump wants to get along with Russia, and Russia has a problem, well lots of them. Firstly the muslim percentage is rising… ..taking a chunk of Ukraine with the orthodoxy people… …also, the argument about NATO expansion has to seen in context that the internal borders of the USSR changed overtime during, so a rigged adherence to them two decades after they were set, when Russia was in no position to regard them properly.

      Russia aint the enemy, stupid Muslim dictators rigged aligned to fundamentalism, or worse, desperate to keep fundamentalists under control justifying their own existance and so keep fuelling a small fundamentalist fringe. aka Saudi

      • Clump_AKA Sam 2.1.1

        What? No, I don’t even know where to start with this. Those points you raised are perfectly fine democratic behaviour ie Ukrian and Crimea voted for it, and Putin accepted that process. I see where your trying to go with a kind of imperial expansionist land grab. But the empires are being built in the digital real ie finance/fraud/and scandal which has nothing to do with ethnicity

        • greywarshark 2.1.1.1

          Digital is world wide but we still live within geographical boundaries and nation concepts to which we adhere despite digital flashes attempting to break us into nothing units with almost subliminal messages that irritate our synapses more than they enrich our minds.

        • aerobubble 2.1.1.2

          i disagree obviously. Isis, Syria, had all the hallmarks of the US, Russia, Turkey, EU working with events to maximize the destrucion of Islamic terror. aka fight Isis in Syria, Iraq, not more in the west. Russia is a western nation. Sure its militrary, secret services, civil elites chose Putin to lead, but is this any more oxymoronic than the US choosing Trump, or the UK choosing Thatcher all those years ago. The trends today require more than nanny liberal cum-bi-ar-isms.

          As for imperialism, the Russia interests in Crimea, and so eastern Ukraine cannot be imperial grab, since they were once two decades ago, part of the same entity. You are not suggesting if a surgeon reataches your leg that it wasn’t your leg?

  3. aerobubble 3

    Talk about hysterical, Trump mania wall to wall, like it has anything to do with anything. Obama was checked by Congress, and Trump aint no Republician so Congress aint no friend.

    We’re part of a spying network coz its necessary for security to know whats going on. Its not like the grey power member who watches their neighbor twenty four seven and dobs their benefitary neighbor into rubbish control as they cleanup their yard to comply with the new fire law about to pass government and so have lots of rubbish bags, and no car or funds to pay for the refuse station charges. Govts have no infinite time resource like grey power members, aren’t demented in their adherance of local bylaws, and too authoritarian to have forgotten how civil society checks itself.

    Councils, like government have a duty of care to respect, not out of some do good sensiblitity, but because its the abuse of processes that threaten our way of life, wheather a grey power member, a terrorist, or whomever is dimminishing the collective peace. New fire rules will mean conscientious citizens with limited means will need extra temporary refuse options.

  4. Glenn 4

    When the world goes to shit be it Climate Change or some other effect then I think “safe place” New Zealand situated bang in the middle of the goldilocks zone will be attracting unwanted attention from bigger States and greedy slimeballs. Not to mention masses of desperate people arriving at our borders.’ more than we could cope with.
    NZ should be planning for this possibility.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      +1

      • Rob 4.1.1

        So whats that , bigger coastal defence, larger stock piles, greater survivalist skills, introduction of the home guard?

        Compulsary military training? What sort of planning are you wanting to undertake?

        • Clump_AKA Sam 4.1.1.1

          I wonder what my great grandfather would say, probably you’re a dam fool

        • Glenn 4.1.1.2

          As far as planning I have no idea, I guess that’s what the people we elect are supposed to do however on past and current performance good luck on that.

          We have too big a coast to defend and are to small to stop any bigger nation from making us a “protectorate”. We can’t “build a wall”.
          Perhaps we should declare neutrality while we are ahead. Fat lot of good that did Belgium (twice).

          Stuffed if I know what we can and could do.
          It would be nice to know that if and when the shit hits the fan our “peers” in government have a Plan A,B and C.

          • Rob 4.1.1.2.1

            Well what about this Glenn, its risky and untried , but it might just protect our sweet assholes.

            How about we sign some agreements with some really big dudes who have some pretty serious kit. Maybe the US and Aus may be keen! I have an idea that if we do our little bit (as we don’t have too much to bring to the party , except some really solid people) they may help us out as well.

            I know, i know , its wacky and I’ll get flammed, but we could even call it ANZUS!

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2.1.1

              How about we sign some agreements with some really big dudes who have some pretty serious kit.

              How about we don’t?
              I like having our own independent foreign policy that’s not dependent upon kissing arse.

              I know, i know , its wacky and I’ll get flammed, but we could even call it ANZUS!

              And look where kissing arse got us before – into two world wars fighting on the other side of the world. Which meant that we couldn’t fight in our own backyard when we actually needed to. Never mind the pressure to invade innocent countries when one of those big boys decides that they don’t like the leader because he’s selling oil in Euros instead of US$.

              • Rob

                Ok , fair enough comment, so when did we need to fight in our backyard when we were unable to ?

                • Clump_AKA Sam

                  Amateurs talk tactics, pros talk gear

                  • Rob

                    Nice one Clump, thanks for your input on that one.

                  • exkiwiforces

                    Amateurs talk about kit and tactics and us pros talk logistics among other stuff.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      It’s the logistics that has me saying that we need to build up our manufacturing and resource extraction capabilities.

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      Well we and I mean New Zealand will have a kind of tariff put on us sone. What I mean is it will be cost effective to target some niche manufacturing products in fisher&pickle brown group (happy to be corrected as its there medical division) provide some subsidies in this sector along with ten others in the mechanical/fabrication/engineering sector, scale them up. These skills takes time to grow. These sectors don’t need a whole lot of land so water and carbon foot print can be shrunk so we won’t have to dig giant holes.

                      Considering the average wage is about $70k, and each skilled worker generates 3 times the average ($210k) with ten workers a piece, we could generate $21 million per annum of useful work, those sectors would be marked up on the retail end, raising the national average wage, that wouldn’t immediately be redeployed to produce commercial of the shelf & military off the shelf systems.

                      In New Zealand. It’s really important to choose your design team 1st. Far to often a buyer will assume he can fit a hundred units on a section, then the design team comes in and say, “sorry, you can only fit 40 units on that section.”

                • Draco T Bastard

                  WWII

                  We went to Europe and fought the Nazis rather than staying here and fighting the Japanese.

          • exkiwiforces 4.1.1.2.2

            Glenn,

            New Zealand is easy to defend, it all comes down to money. What are you prepare to sacrifice for a strong Navy, Airforce , reintroduce Nation Serivce to bring back TF back to within 80 to 100% CE and those who refuse NS goes into Civil Defence. BTW, if that means New Zealand Scottish RNZAC is reformed i’m coming home.

            Finland, Sweden and Swiss are good examples for armed neutrality not those western Europe nations.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2.3

            We have too big a coast to defend and are to small to stop any bigger nation from making us a “protectorate”. We can’t “build a wall”.

            We’ve already got one – the Pacific Ocean.

            Actually preventing anyone from landing is actually quite easy. If we built reasonable defence capability no one would be considering trying to invade us.

            • exkiwiforces 4.1.1.2.3.1

              Just need a strong Navy and Airforce to deny , delay aand defend the Air/ Sea gap. Reintroduce National Serivce to bring back the TF units back to within 80 to 100% of CE and those who refuse NS goes into Civil Defence.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.3

          A reasonable defence force capable of actually defending us against invasion.
          The manufacturing capability to support that.
          The extraction and processing industry to support that.

          Of course, that would mean developing the economy which all political parties seem to be against these days as they focus simply on producing more of what we already do for trade thus making us weak and vulnerable.

          • Clump_AKA Sam 4.1.1.3.1

            Well said

          • Rob 4.1.1.3.2

            Funny, I do know a little about manufacturing.

            One thing I have learnt is that to be pretty good at it you need to specialise in the particular industry , ie chopping and changing does not create great results.

            So I can only speculate that when you wrote that you require a manufacturing capability to support defence against invasion (your words), that means you would like to start building a NZ arms and munitions industry big enough to defend NZ against any threat.

            • Clump_AKA Sam 4.1.1.3.2.1

              Where are you going to get the certified wielders? Korea/Germany/US/UK/NZ?

              • Rob

                You know Clump in a very small way (if you do think welding is the only issue in NZ manufacturing) you agree with the point.

                This is one of the reasons why we have engaged in international agreements for defence.

                • Clump_AKA Sam

                  Quote from Draco “these days as they focus simply on producing more of what we already do for trade thus making us weak and vulnerable”

                  Before you continue, votedefence scheduled a boost of about 20 billion over the next 20-25 years. so it’s not worth exploring further.

                  • Rob

                    Not too sure how I reply to that one Clump.

                    Just a kind suggestion in regards to your response.

                    Perhaps if you re-read it tomorrow morning, “before you get engaged in the weekend”, you may critically assess it as not your best work.

                  • Glenn

                    Perhaps NZ needs to learn from Switzerland. They have mountains as a barrier. As Draco said, we have the Pacific (and Tasman).
                    Switzerland has a strong armed force and militia and makes much of it’s armaments..
                    Although whether it would work with our population who knows?

                    ” Switzerland has the second largest armed force per capita after the Israeli Defence Forces.[6]
                    Switzerland has long held a posture of neutrality regarding war and conflict. To maintain a strong defense, the Swiss instead focus on maintaining a strong well-regulated militia.
                    Gun ownership is high in Switzerland, at approximately .5 guns per person. About 30% of Swiss citizens own guns. Military issued firearms must be purchased from the government after service, and then the gun is converted to a non-assault weapon. Restrictions can be placed on both the firearm and its ammunition.
                    In Switzerland, you don’t need a permit for hunting weapons, but you do for other firearms and ammunition.
                    Every time you buy a non-hunting weapon you need to get a background check (you can get up to 3 guns at one time).”

                    http://factmyth.com/factoids/switzerland-requires-citizens-to-own-guns/

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.3.2.2

              One thing I have learnt is that to be pretty good at it you need to specialise in the particular industry

              For research many technologies cross many fields. The microwave came out of defence research for example.

              So I can only speculate that when you wrote that you require a manufacturing capability to support defence against invasion (your words), that means you would like to start building a NZ arms and munitions industry big enough to defend NZ against any threat.

              Yes but I think you’ll find that such industry is really quite small. I tend to think of a missile shield that can stop things getting close rather than dreadnoughts to go out and pound things so doesn’t require millions of people nor a vast array of weapons and weapons platforms. In other words, research and manufacturing within a very tight focus.

              You use welders as an example of where we don’t have enough of something but that’s not really a problem – if you have automated welders. I’m a great believer in researching and implementing more automation.

    • greywarshark 4.2

      Glenn
      I read a short story about this scenario in the Listener in 1970s. Everyone in NZ had to live on hills so the flat could be farmed. Each country had its quotas of foreign people that had to be settled.

      Animals could not be farmed and the hero of the story got looks on the train because of him wearing an old sheepskin jacket. Even chooks were in short supply, meat of any kind was not allowed, and he had travelled a distance to a friend in the country and been given a secret, precious egg to transport home.

  5. Sacha 5

    Russia would be spying on Fonterra here. That’s about it.

    • Rob 5.1

      Well, obviously you are the spy expert Sacha, so you would you know!

      • Clump_AKA Sam 5.1.1

        Because GCSB is spying on every one else

        • Rob 5.1.1.1

          Sorry, I should rephrase my response.

          Obviously Sacha & Clump are experts in the world of spies, its also sits nicely alongside Clumps expertise in international certified welding.

  6. mosa 6

    Bill English does refreshing honesty.. Yeah right !

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