Save us from Nat working groups

27 comments on “Save us from Nat working groups ”

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1. higherstandard 1

   3 February 2011 at 10:05 am

   Capital Gains Tax… come on are either of the two major parties brave enough to do what needs to be done…… not a chance.

   Oh and a slight point – increasing employer kiwisaver contributions will cost the government in relation to state employees ?
   • Blondie 1.1

     3 February 2011 at 1:45 pm

     Damn straight….. the lack of CGT in this country has contributed hugely to the ever-increasing price of housing, and therefore the ever-increasing level of mortgages and indebtedness.

     Whilst some might think they’ve done quite nicely through the capital gains on their family homes and investment property, the reality is overseas-owned banking institutions have profited the most, via ever-increasing interest charges on those mortgages.

     CGT is well overdue.

     Antispam word – Worrying. How apt.
2. DJames 2

   3 February 2011 at 10:05 am

   Wow some real advice on savings, and the government doesn’t have to pay an overpriced working group for it.
3. ianmac 3

   3 February 2011 at 10:30 am

   I agree with you that the spin is for Key to immediately reject the extreme recommendations so that the more moderate ones can seem to be good by comparison. Good old John really cares for us. Wonder if there is a danger of over-use?
4. prism 4

   3 February 2011 at 10:39 am

   This Kerry McDonald, spokesperson for the savings working group, seems to have been a bright star in the business and economic world over the years. Seems to me that some people are born into their jobs, and never experience life as others have. Don Brash was another bright boy who went straight into good jobs. No office junior start at the bottom for him. One of our top judges went into his father’s firm on graduation instead of taking at least a gap year. I heard him passing harsh judgment on the general populace he dealt with. No insight into their reality.

   And so we get the advice of such people unwilling to consider the ordinary people in their policy recommendations. 17% GST now.
   No income tax is one suggestion posited, only consumption tax.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     3 February 2011 at 11:10 am

     The rich would love to have no income tax and only consumption tax – then they wouldn’t have to pay any tax at all.
     • prism 4.1.1

       3 February 2011 at 11:17 am

       Would they have their accountants work out how to avoid consumption tax – through some system that triggers GST refunds? Or would they buy everything through some business entity and write things off as business expenses? Is that what you are thinking DracoTB?
       • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1

         3 February 2011 at 11:33 am

         Something like that. Probably some sort of combination of available methods.
         • grumpy 4.1.1.1.1

           3 February 2011 at 11:55 am

           I have a mate in Aussie who does very nicely out of the Capital Gains Tax. When you have “capital gains” you also have “capital losses” that can be offset against income.
           • higherstandard 4.1.1.1.1.1

             3 February 2011 at 12:05 pm

             1. Capital gains tax and consumption tax are two very different beasts.
             2. The continued fantasy by the likes of DTB that the ‘rich’ can somehow be in net receipt of GST rather than net GST payors is just that a fantasy……….. if you think this is not the case why not register for GST and see how you go trying to claim for everything and sundry as a business expense.
             • grumpy …

               3 February 2011 at 12:22 pm

               Does not detract from my statement above. Many people have made a lot of money out of GST, just as many will be able to do well from a Capital Gains Tax.
               • higherstandard …

                 3 February 2011 at 12:34 pm

                 I think you’ll find that the only people who have made a lot of money out of GST are the governments of the day, I’d be interested if you could provide examples otherwise though as I’d happily work to minimise my GST legally.
                 • grumpy …

                   3 February 2011 at 12:53 pm

                   Well, one example is a Christchurch company, run by a well known local shark, who reputedly purchased a property, received a GST invoice, claimed it from IRD (Invoice basis). Then the company “got into difficulty”, couldn’t pay it’s bills so never went through with the sale and actually paid the money over, hence didn’t pay the GST. IRD were pursuing but I am not sure of the outcome.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               3 February 2011 at 12:40 pm

               I didn’t “net receipt” did I? They will be paying some but they’ll be able to dodge a lot as well. Have the company buy the car as part of the remuneration package and that’s a whole lot of GST not paid.

               The net result will be that they pay a hell of a lot less of their income in tax than a poor person will.
               • grumpy …

                 3 February 2011 at 1:09 pm

                 You forgot about Fringe Benefit Tax which is payeble on the purchase price of the car INCLUDING GST.

                 Anyway, you have a good point in that those who are able to can do OK out of GST.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   3 February 2011 at 2:12 pm

                   Yeah, I got that bit wrong. I have enough people in my family that own cars through their business in a way that neither GST nor FBT was paid on them (technically, they’re work vehicles). As you say, people in the right position can bypass some GST.
               • higherstandard …

                 3 February 2011 at 1:15 pm

                 Um your comment was

                 “The rich would love to have no income tax and only consumption tax – then they wouldn’t have to pay any tax at all.”

                 Now you’ve come back with – “The net result will be that they pay a hell of a lot less of their income in tax than a poor person will.”

                 I’m sorry I call bullshit on this as well please provide some hard data too show that a “rich’ person will pay less GST than a ‘poor’ person.
                 • prism …

                   3 February 2011 at 1:21 pm

                   Self evident hstandards – The rich get that way because they work harder – at thinking how to optimise their finances.
                   • higherstandard …

                     3 February 2011 at 1:27 pm

                     What simplistic rubbish people can get rich by various methods including but not limited to the following.

                     1. Inheritance
                     2. Luck
                     3. Hard work
                     4. Fraud
                     5. Developing or providing a good or service that has a high demand
                 • Pascal's bookie …

                   3 February 2011 at 1:26 pm

                   “The net result will be that they pay a hell of a lot less of their income in tax than a poor person will.”

                   Seems like a pretty reasonable assumption to me.
                   • higherstandard …

                     3 February 2011 at 1:35 pm

                     PB I would expect that someone on a higher income would likely pay a lower proportion of their income than someone on a lower income but what DTB said initially was.

                     “The rich would love to have no income tax and only consumption tax – then they wouldn’t have to pay any tax at all.”

                     followed by

                     “The net result will be that they pay a hell of a lot less of their income in tax than a poor person will.”

                     My request is for him to back either of those two statements up with a dataset. It also assumes large scale rorting of GST by whatever DTB defines as a rich person as well as an assumption that whatever DTB defines as a rich person is registered for GST.
                   • grumpy …

                     3 February 2011 at 1:39 pm

                     Hate to argue with you Higherstandard, but you only need to look at the example of farmers. Everything paid by the business and their own income so low they can rort WFF.
                   • higherstandard …

                     3 February 2011 at 1:43 pm

                     No probs Grumpy.

                     I have family members who farm (non diary), and can assure you they aren’t coining it.

                     As for myself i pay a shit load of FBT and collect a pretty large amount of GST for the government coffers.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   3 February 2011 at 1:57 pm

                   Ok, fine, my initial statement was an exaggeration.

                   Rich people already pay less as a proportion of their income in GST. This is partly due to the fact that they just don’t spend as much as a proportion of their income on consumption and partly due to the fact that they can, and do, structure their affairs to avoid taxes including GST.

                   Datasets – not available although I did see a chart @uni that showed the lowest percentile earners paying more total tax as a proportion of their income than the highest percentile. This discrepancy was attributed to GST.
                   • infused …

                     3 February 2011 at 5:39 pm

                     You cannot do this Draco. You will eventually get pinged. IRD have some pretty nifty ways of getting people claiming or avoiding gst.
5. randal 5

   4 February 2011 at 2:23 pm

   private debt is the problem.
   kiwis have an unshakeable beilif that they are entitled to the absolute best of everything.
   I mean how much dosh goes up in smoke (interest, overseas funds) so they move their asses round the country and the world in the manner to which they feel they have become accustomed when air new zealand buys 14 new jets.
   then they privarise just after the latest fleet has been paid off.
   and dont forget stainless steel for fat mufflers and trips to exotic locations so they can come back and skite to the rest of us.
   kiwis have become gross users of everything.

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1. The Standard: posted on 2 February 2011 at 8:58 pm

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