Soper gets sucked in by National’s fake Ardern quote

Written By: - Date published: 4:35 pm, June 28th, 2018 - 51 comments
Categories: Economy, journalism, Media, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, Unions, workers' rights, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

It is bad enough that National pedals through its social media stuff that is blatantly not true.  But it is really annoying when senior political reporters uncritically restate what is demonstrably not true.

This is what happened this morning when Barry Soper repeated National’s misrepresentation of something that Jacinda Ardern said during the last election campaign.

Soper said this:

How was Jacinda Ardern to know when she was being interviewed on a television debate last year that this time next week nurses could be downing their stethoscopes?

She was asked under a Government led by her whether the country would go back to the days of national, industry-wide strikes and she was adamant: “No we will not.”

Pressed on whether she was giving a rock-solid guarantee she was equally adamant, answering in the affirmative.

You could have expected her to know with the trade unions exerting much more power in a Government than they’ve ever been allowed to in the past that was always going to be a risk, which is now being realised.

There is one basic problem with Soper’s claim.

Jacinda was not asked if a Government led by her whether the country would go back to the days of national, industry-wide strikes.  She was asked if there would be national strikes as a result of Labour’s fair pay industry wide bargaining proposal and her answer was there would not be.

National trimmed the video to remove the context and it looks like Soper fell for it hook line and sinker.

51 comments on “Soper gets sucked in by National’s fake Ardern quote ”

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  1. Jum 1
    28 June 2018 at 4:41 pm

    I hope you have contacted him for his excuse; I want to see why it is that he made a lazy rookie mistake or is he yet another bought and paid for Nat flunky?

    English and Key did the same to Helen Clark pre 2008 election when they changed wording and left stuff out to suggest she was criticizing New Zealanders instead of the ‘visionless’ Nat Act parties.

    Was this on the TV3 duncan garner comedy show?

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2
    28 June 2018 at 4:41 pm

    The link to Soper is to the wrong story: here’s the one you want.

    Soper’s brain has adapted to dishonesty, I suspect.

    [Thanks. Right you are. I have corrected – MS]

    • AB 2.1
      28 June 2018 at 4:54 pm

      “Soper’s brain has adapted to dishonesty…”
      Don’t single-cell organisms adapt more quickly than complex ones?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1
        28 June 2018 at 5:05 pm

        Garret et al 2016:

        …we provide empirical evidence for a gradual escalation of self-serving dishonesty and reveal a neural mechanism supporting it.

        …

        The findings uncover a biological mechanism that supports a ‘slippery slope’: what begins as small acts of dishonesty can escalate into larger transgressions.

        If they stand scrutiny, these findings will go a long way to explaining the National Party.

  3. Sacha 3
    28 June 2018 at 4:45 pm

    Another lazy old hack who should be put out to pasture. If our publishing laws had any teeth, his editor and publisher would be punished for spreading lies.

  4. gsays 4
    28 June 2018 at 4:48 pm

    Ok, soper got sucked in, (very gracious description), what matters is how many readers believed him.

    • Ed 4.1
      28 June 2018 at 10:29 pm

      Very generous.
      What he did was pimped for the powerful.
      Sadly, some morans will believe him.

  5. Wayne 5
    28 June 2018 at 4:56 pm

    You are being pedantic (and way too defensive). It was essentially the same thing.

    I doubt Barry Soper relied on a National Party video, he would have done his own research. Just because he didn’t use the exact same words as the question doesn’t mean he is inaccurate in framing it the way he has done. The sense of what the PM was saying was perfectly clear.

    • mickysavage 5.1
      28 June 2018 at 5:01 pm

      I doubt Barry Soper relied on a National Party video, he would have done his own research. Just because he didn’t use the exact same words as the question doesn’t mean he is inaccurate in framing it the way he has done. The sense of what the PM was saying was perfectly clear.

      Well how did he get it so wrong and why did he repeat National’s line? Ardern made the comment specifically in relation to planned fair pay industry agreements. Soper’s comment reflects the National line, that she made the comment about all national strikes.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2
      28 June 2018 at 5:19 pm

      The sense of what the PM was saying was perfectly clear.

      Yes: I watched the video to refresh my memory and what she says is perfectly clear: Labour’s proposed sector wide bargaining framework will not lead to more strikes.

      Also, I note the (let’s be charitable) inaccuracy of National’s claim of more strike action.

      There seems to be a pattern here: you can’t trust anything the National Party says.

    • Gabby 5.3
      28 June 2018 at 5:31 pm

      Do you routinely quote people not using the exact words wayney?

    • lprent 5.4
      28 June 2018 at 6:25 pm

      I don’t think it is pedantic to point out that National is simply deliberately lying…

      I think it is just the truth.

      I guess you prefer the deliberate misquoting.

      I suspect that Soper was just being lazy.

      But the intent of Jacinda’s comments was perfectly clear and completely unrelated to Nationals deliberate lying about what she said.

      • Wayne 5.4.1
        28 June 2018 at 6:42 pm

        National wasn’t lying.

        It is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the effect of Labours law changes. Will we go back to widespread nationwide strikes or not as a result of Labour’s employment law changes?

        That is what National is saying. The PM denies it.

        It is a pretty straight forward debate (except for pedants).

        Anyway you have your view, I have mine.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.4.1.1
          28 June 2018 at 6:59 pm

          National was lying.

          It is a perfectly reasonable interpretation.

          National denies it.

          Pretty straight forward.

          Anyway you have your view, I have mine.

          Wayne Mapp.

          [see what I did there?]

          • Wayne 5.4.1.1.1
            28 June 2018 at 7:05 pm

            Yes, a bit of humour without the usual insults.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.4.1.1.1.1
              28 June 2018 at 7:18 pm

              Here’s another perspective Dr. Mapp.

              The National Party’s relentless bad faith and dishonesty isn’t just an insult, it’s an assault. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.4.1.2
          28 June 2018 at 7:11 pm

          National wasn’t lying.

          Yes they were by leaving out relevant context. Otherwise known as Lying by Omission.

          It is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the effect of Labours law changes.

          No it’s not but that’s not what they’re lying about. They’re lying about what Ardern said.

          Will we go back to widespread nationwide strikes or not as a result of Labour’s employment law changes?

          That is what National is saying. The PM denies it.

          Except that’s not what National are saying. They’re deliberately saying that Ardern said that we wouldn’t go back to that when that’s not what she said.

          As I’m pretty sure you understand the difference that means that you’re lying as well.

          But, hey, as ex-National MP John Banks implied – RWNJs have to lie else they wouldn’t get elected.

          • rhinocrates 5.4.1.2.1
            28 June 2018 at 7:20 pm

            Speaking of omissions, Wayne must be well aware of the culture of sexual abuse in the legal profession. It’s off-topic I know, but since Wayne wants to present himself as a paragon of common sense, decency, fair treatment, decorum and so dedicated to preventing offence of the delicate sensibilities of rich men (which are so easily hurt) at all costs… So tell us Wayne, as someone soooo concerned with honesty and integrity and accurate reporting, what did you do to prevent it or at least give women who were harassed a voice and a hearing?

            I am so sick of the sanctimonious pontifications of this gin-marinated buffoon.

        • mickysavage 5.4.1.3
          28 June 2018 at 9:31 pm

          Hey Wayne

          National wasn’t lying.

          It is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the effect of Labours law changes.

          But the allegation is that Jacinda said something which was taken totally out of context. What do you think about the decision of National’s social media team to delete the opening words of Hosking’s question?

    • tc 5.5
      29 June 2018 at 11:19 am

      How predictable Wayne, defending one of your shills.

  6. Stuart Munro 6
    28 June 2018 at 5:03 pm

    pedals => peddles The Gnats will be on their bikes soon enough.

  7. Jum 7
    28 June 2018 at 5:14 pm

    Here ’tis:
    “How can our nation go ahead without the public resources to make huge investments in our future potential? Tax cuts are a path to inequality and underdevelopment in today’s circumstances. They are the promises of vision-less and intellectually bankrupt people,” Helen Clark told her party’s conference in 2000 – a statement the Nat beavers clearly unearthed with glee.

    Miss Clark’s office pointed out that National had been extremely selective by leaving out the “in today’s circumstances” from their version of the speech. But it is a fine point that will be lost on most voters.

    (They also added ‘a’ which changes it to ‘a vision-less bankrupt people’ not the obvious Nats.)

    Time for The Hollow Men to be republished and also read in schools to prevent future naivety, because the nact’s money men and lizard people are rearing their ugly heads once again.

    • Baba Yaga 7.1
      28 June 2018 at 9:24 pm

      Yes, shocking idea to actually give people their own money back and having them make their own decisions about it. It simply can’t be allowed. After all, Labour needed to hang on to that money to stop the economy going into recession in 2007/08…oh wait…

      • Jum 7.1.1
        29 June 2018 at 2:15 pm

        Baba Yaga, It’s shocking that you think these profit takers are ‘getting their own money back’. Think creative accounting; think secret accounts, etc., not to mention the types that made their money without actually producing anything.

        Contrast that with the straightforward tax bills charged and paid by those on low and middle incomes.

        Note to you; the gfc started in 2007, not 2008; stop continuing to mislead people.

        The interesting part is that those on low and middle set incomes are the people that would be happy for their taxes to be spent on education, transport, health… that help all New Zealanders, unlike your friends the wealth hiders.

        It’s just so great this year to see some integrity and gravitas from a new Government, instead of the frankly grubby little antics of your opposition buddies.

        Same question about john key. If he was so clever in finances why didn’t he warn Clark and Co about the sub prime (no doubt manufactured) crisis, to take more money off the low paid, instead of his hysterical demands to give out tax cuts. Or did he plan to then blame them for low funds and therefore a perfect opportunity to sell off NZer-owned assets in bulk. That’s closer to the truth of Mr key, America’s man.

        • Baba Yaga 7.1.1.1
          29 June 2018 at 3:24 pm

          “It’s shocking that you think these profit takers are ‘getting their own money back’. ”

          Really? The money was taken from them in the first place, just as it is taken from all of us. The less we are taxed, and the more responsibility we take for our own provision, the better.

          “Contrast that with the straightforward tax bills charged and paid by those on low and middle incomes.”
          That’s just socialist rhetoric. High income earners pay their fair share, in fact more than their fair share, both in terms of income tax and GST. Not to mention the excessive rates they pay for no other reason than where they live.

          “the gfc started in 2007, not 2008; stop continuing to mislead people.”
          Where and when did I say it started in 2008?

          • logie97 7.1.1.1.1
            29 June 2018 at 4:47 pm

            The “wealth creators” do not pay the same GST – only the same rate.
            They invariably purchase their luxury items at wholesale price from their mates (if they don’t already own the warehouse).
            The less well-off pay GST on the retail price.

            e.g.
            Washing Machine wholesale 1000 + gst 15 pcnt – final price $1150. (tax 150.)
            Washing Machine Retail $1400 + gst 15 pcnt – final price = 1610. (tax 210.)

            The “wealth creators” employ “good” accountants to make sure that they pay as little tax as possible. And as for claiming living expenses against their company …

            • Baba Yaga 7.1.1.1.1.1
              29 June 2018 at 5:23 pm

              “The “wealth creators” do not pay the same GST…”

              No, they pay a lot more, because they have more disposable income.

              “The “wealth creators” employ “good” accountants to make sure that they pay as little tax as possible.”
              You clearly have little experience of the current tax system.

              • logie97 …
                29 June 2018 at 6:33 pm

                Merchants and financial heads and bankers aren’t wealth creators.
                On the other hand you could say that agriculturists are.

                And they have found very creative accountants to make sure that they pay as little tax as possible. Student allowances come to mind. They pay themselves so little that their children qualify whilst a couple on a moderate combined income don’t. I understand the tax system well …

                • Baba Yaga …
                  29 June 2018 at 8:27 pm

                  “Merchants and financial heads and bankers aren’t wealth creators.”
                  Actually, they are. They pay tax, spend their income/wealth, which incurs GST and creates jobs.

                  But I could counter with “nor are welfare bludgers”. See I can do it too.

                  ” I understand the tax system well …”
                  Nah you don’t.

                  And how do feel about Labour enabling middle class welfare at the expense of the ‘less advantaged’ – to quote Peter Davis on Labours fees free idiocy:

                  “This is a massive re-distribution of public funds to the aspiring middle class. Uni students are overwhelmingly from professional and managerial backgrounds, and end up in those self-same jobs. Those who need the help are from less advantaged backgrounds”.

                  • Tricledrown …
                    29 June 2018 at 9:00 pm

                    Babygaga Banks are predatory fraudulent Cartels.
                    Check out Australian banking enquiry.
                    One Aussie bank has been fined $700
                    Million and many senior bankers face
                    Up to 5 yrs behind bars.
                    Not only the aussie involved in criminal fraud but Deuche Bank and others colaberating to defraud.
                    Same bank that was behind predatory lending grifting politicians to defraud the Greek people.
                    Looks similar to what’s happening in Australia and NZ.

          • Jum 7.1.1.1.2
            29 June 2018 at 9:20 pm

            Babi … You said recession not gfc – huge difference. GFC – greed from the greedy planned to take from the already exploited.

            There’s also a huge difference between high earners paying their ‘fair share’ and those whose accountants have determined what is their share.

  8. Sanctuary 8
    28 June 2018 at 5:26 pm

    It’s called confirmation bias. Soper believes National propaganda because he wants to.

  9. ianmac 9
    28 June 2018 at 7:42 pm

    Trouble is that the Public hear/read the edited version, see that Nurses may strike, and it puts doubt in the mind. We try and correct it all but it is too late.
    They have already moved onto the next edited version. Explaining is losing.

    But the perpetrators have to be unscrupulous and able to avoid being accountable.
    Bastards really.

    • BM 9.1
      28 June 2018 at 7:48 pm

      The sheeple don’t read that shit and don’t care.

      Apparently, the new NZ Herald approach to “news” has reaped huge results readership and page views are way up, that dross they print now is what your average munter actually wants to read, fucking terrifying.

      Idiocracy here we come.

      • ianmac 9.1.1
        28 June 2018 at 9:11 pm

        Actually the Herald said that they were doing better but then a few days ago I saw somewhere that they were down about 7% I think.

      • McFlock 9.1.2
        28 June 2018 at 10:36 pm

        Before Trump I thought that maybe things would reach a crescendo of absurdity and the Idiocracy outcome would be averted.

        Then it came true.

  10. R.P Mcmurphy 10
    28 June 2018 at 8:08 pm

    soper has always been a dickylicker apologist for the tories and objectivity and verification are words that are not in his dictionary.
    he is a frigging dinosaur and it is about time the whole lot were cleaned out but that would mean a cohort of infantilised junior jimmy olsens and that would be even worse

  11. Tuppence Shrewsbury 11
    28 June 2018 at 9:09 pm

    Please, keep up this pythonesque defence of this governments yes ministers.

    Soper and the National party lying? Or highlighting some very inconvenient truths about a government that is struggling to govern

    • patricia bremner 11.1
      28 June 2018 at 10:20 pm

      TS….. LOL LOL You are a troll keeping up the meme.

      “government that is struggling to govern”

      Like “in a shambles” “not coping” “Infighting” “Winston”

      What did your lot do?

      Caused more poverty, low wages, shit in walls, kids doing homework in cars!!

      Soper and you are in total denial, now peddling twisted half truths, annoyed at no real failings you have to invent and exagerate.

      Soper never wrote about Key’s carry on, or Joyce, or Brownlee. No hope Nats.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 11.1.1
        29 June 2018 at 12:08 pm

        Like public sector strikes being threatened seemingly every other week. Something only the government can control. Something they don’t seem to be able too.

        Never saw it in Clarke’s years.

  12. JustMe 12
    28 June 2018 at 9:48 pm

    Way to go NZ Media. You show yourselves through utter perseverance and determination to prove to the world you are nothing more and less than the mouthpieces of the NZ National Party and its supporters.
    Job well done to Barry Soper and so many others to proving to all and sundry around NZ that the NZ media are nothing more(and less)than a bunch of mouthpieces for a political party that are sore-losers.
    Carry on the good work Soper, Hosking, Hooten, Young, Roughan,etc.etc.etc and you will win the race to the bottom of the barrel along with the NZ National Party lack of credibility, honesty and accountability.
    Oh but as per usual and applying the National Party mantra nothing will ever be YOUR FAULT. You will always blame everyone else but the faces staring back at you in the mirror.
    To date the mainstream NZ media has lost all credibility whilst it still remains in the NZ National Party pocket perhaps financially for personal gain for each journalist it has in its grasp and control.

  13. Pete 13
    29 June 2018 at 8:12 am

    Don’t worry Soper will apologise, loudly, prominently and fulsomely.

  14. Observer Tokoroa 14
    29 June 2018 at 9:09 am

    Micky Savage

    Where the Media has released a misquotation or omitted words of a statement made by the Labour PM or a Minister, the Media responsible and the person who uttered or wrote the wrong information should be taken to Court.

    Likewise any Standard TROLL who supported the Media’s error or falsehood, should be taken to Court.

    I think Labour would have plenty of persons who would defray Court Costs if asked.

    The problem the Media has is that it Worships and supports any person who is a wealthy Capitalist.

    It goes out of its way to rubbish any non Capitalist. It loathes the workforce who keep NZ producing. It Hates the workers getting housing, or fair rentals or decent Health Care. Or any Advancement. Or even Heating or Transport.

    IT despises the really decent people of NZ. Capitalists are rabidly evil. They support nothing that does not t bring themselves riches. Greed is Evil.

  15. R.P Mcmurphy 15
    29 June 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Whats getting to me is the local rag/twominutesilence.
    every day there is a 3/4 op ed syndicated attack on the government written by soper or gluon espiner.
    the press conglomerates have completely taken over the manufacture of lies on behalf of the nationals party and it has become ubiquitous.
    they are slowly creating an authoritarian one party right wing state.

  16. Jackel 16
    30 June 2018 at 7:17 pm

    The media are dead boring, most of it is
    mindless infotainment. The rest is Tory media attack dogs spouting the drivel their Tory bosses tell them to. If you read each of them carefully, it’s obvious they say basically the same thing on an issue as if told to. One of the things I’m sure they’ve been told to spout by their Tory bosses is to attack Labour on competency and their relationship with the unions.