Stability vs Change

Written By: - Date published: 8:22 am, September 18th, 2014 - 79 comments
Categories: election 2014, greens, labour, national - Tags: , ,

Watching the final leaders’ “debate” last night, I was particularly struck by the responses to the question (paraphrased) “what will your government do in its first 100 days?”. Cunliffe (if I may steal Mickysavage’s list) was quick off the mark and compelling:

  • start raising the minimum wage
  • repeal some of the unfair labour laws
  • start the commission of inquiry into the management of our security agencies
  • broaden the commission of inquiry into John Key’s ministers’ abuse of power
  • and start turning this country around to something that is cleaner in more ways than one as well as more productive.

Key was grasping at straws:

  • focus on the opportunity and continue to deliver for New Zealanders (whatever that means).
  • lift and support professional development for our teachers for our principals
  • sign a free trade agreement with Korea
  • continue with their plan for cancer care
  • continue to invest in infrastructure
  • continue to invest in science and innovation
  • create 150,000 jobs

Like Bill English before him – Key has no idea what he wants to do with a third term. He is simply clinging to power for power’s sake.

This election the Nats have been all about a cult of personality, and all about “stability”. I guess by stability they mean no ideas, they mean more ministers resigning in disgrace, more dirty politics, more surveillance, more daft economic policy, more house price increases, more filth in our rivers, more vilification of beneficiaries, more inequality, more suffering for those in poverty, and so on and on and on.

This election Labour and the Greens have been all about a positive message, all about change. Raise the minimum wage, clean up our rivers and environment, try to lift people out of poverty, address carbon emissions, restore balance in employment law, rebalance the tax system, sensible economic policy and investment in NZ, public transport not roads, build houses, clean up dirty politics, and much much more. It’s smart, it’s positive, it’s a clean start, it’s what we need.

Of these two visions of the future, I know which I prefer.

79 comments on “Stability vs Change ”

  1. Harriet 1

    “…I guess by stability they mean….” – and you then guess next to nothing on the governments behalf – which leaves the private sector to get on with real business, real profits, real wages and real jobs.

    And you then announce a long long list on behalf of a marxist government – with this added “….and much much more….” – which clouds out the private sector in the economy.

    Anyway, I guess stability then means having a conservative keep reminding you of the responsibility of having smaller government – and far far less government intrusion.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      🙄 😆 “Marxist”.

      Makes faith-based assertions with no evidence to support them, then gets right into smearing anyone with better ideas.

      We need better wingnuts.

      • Tracey 1.1.1

        spare the rod, clarify the thinking

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

          It’s interesting how Harriet tries to use the word “Marxist” as some kind of swear word or disagreeable epithet. It’s a very USA style of political discourse (calling your opponent “socialist” for instance, oh heaven forbid).

          She clearly doesn’t understand the term, or understands it yet is willing to misuse it.

          Either way it’s not a great sign.

          Democratic Socialism FTW.

          • Bob 1.1.1.1.1

            “Democratic Socialism FTW” Like France CV? How’s that going?

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1.1

              ECB austerity measures, the poison of central bank capitalism.

            • Foreign Waka 1.1.1.1.1.2

              Social Democratic Party (actually partnered with Union for French Democracy which is rather leaning to the right) or French Socialist Party that has just announced an austerity package under Hollande. This will cost votes en mass. If you mean the latter, its not going well for obvious reasons.

          • Ant 1.1.1.1.2

            “clouds out” is also pretty hilarious.

            Hopefully Krugman can analyse how clouding works in an economy.

    • cogito 1.2

      Marxist? Now that would be fun! Been a long time since I’ve heard a good old Marxist agenda…. and talk of the proletariat, means of production etc. Happy memories! But that is not what Cunliffe is about, not even slightly!

      • McFlock 1.2.1

        There was a guy on otago uni campus for years who was as nutty as a scorched almond, but also had a bit of a reading/writing issue (or maybe just had brain and keyboard working at different speeds).

        He was convinced that the students’ association was full of red-flag commun1sts (rather than soft Labourites ond occasional green hippies), and wrote letters into the student paper about the conspiracy.

        The trouble was that he had a consistent type where he was always trying to alert people to the “Marist cabal”, rather than the M@rxist one that didn’t exist any way.

        I’ve got a feeling one or two of my teachers back in the day were Marists – seemed mellow enough chaps.

        • Rob 1.2.1.1

          “Been a long time since I’ve heard a good old Marxist agenda…. and talk of the proletariat, means of production etc.”

          So cogito Is that because it has never worked in practice, except making a good read in a similar way as other fairy tails?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1

            No, it’s probably because despite the fact that no-one is proposing it, right wing parrots rote learned the phrase and have yet to stop chanting it, thereby providing yet more evidence in support of Nicky Hager’s findings.

            We still lack better wingnuts.

            • McFlock 1.2.1.1.1.1

              damned straight we need better wingnuts – the current crop can’t even use the reply function properly.

          • Naturesong 1.2.1.1.2

            Two instances where it worked:
            Socialism – Red Vienna
            Communism – Kibbutz System

            To assert that the centre right policies of the NZ Labour Party, or the centre left policies of the Greens are anything close to either comunism or socialism simply broadcasts the commenters complete ignorance on the subject.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.3

            Capitalism has never worked in practice either. It destroys every civilisation that attempts it and yet we keep trying it. Brings to mind the saying of genius:

            Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

            And it’s getting worse. If we keep going with capitalism we will destroy the Earth and her ability to sustain life above an amoeba.

    • Ad 1.3

      If you want “far far less government intrusion”, vote against John Key’s failure to protect my fundamental right to privacy and my fundamental right to innocence.

      He has enabled international spies across our land, “intruding” into everything we buy, say, spend, and who we meet.

      Any support for his hanger-on parties enables massive government intrusion.

    • minarch 1.4

      “And you then announce a long long list on behalf of a marxist government – with this added “….and much much more….” – which clouds out the private sector in the economy”

      what decade are you living in ?

    • aerobubble 1.5

      USSR suffered from decades of do nothing as bureaucrats took over. We in NZ suffer from the same socialist party of the few, at the top, who insure government does less, and when it does misappropriates for its own ends.

      No? Take professional engineers, highly paid, so natural recipients of the lion share of tax cuts, as 40% of Keys tax went to the top 10%. And guess what these professional did, not only could they not manage their professionals, they even managed to add a clause to let member avoid sanction by dropping their membership.

      No? Still not seeing the National party reds? MIning inspectors cut, and cult of profit exuded every safety seminar when leaders claims that industry wouldn’t be s dumb as to not insure a basic standard.

      No? Still not seeing out Marzist overlords, who now have their tax cut in the middle of a global recession that did nothing for the lowest paid and gave the top 10%, 40% of the relief.

      No? Forestry deaths, polluted rivers, huge debt run up from zero, Diary boom because Chinese families had their one child in the year of the Dragon, and ChCh Earthquake force insurance to raid their funds (all to have to be reflated).

      Oh, yeah, only our idiot elite would believe that tax cuts work in good times and in bad, that socialism for the few would trickle down. I mean what idiot cannot see our productivity crisis is not down to the fact that over charging profiteering makes much of our economy hugely unproductive.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.6

      and you then guess next to nothing on the governments behalf – which leaves the private sector to get on with real business, real profits, real wages and real jobs.

      They haven’t produced any in the last 6 years so what makes you think that they’re suddenly going to?

      which clouds out the private sector in the economy.

      It wouldn’t actually. There’d still be a private sector but it would be only a minor blip in the economy rather than the massive dead weight loss that it is now.

      Anyway, I guess stability then means having a conservative keep reminding you of the responsibility of having smaller government – and far far less government intrusion.

      We, the people, are the government. Anything else is a dictatorship.

    • Cleangreen 1.7

      Harriet 1

      “Far Less Government intrusion” are you jokong,

      This government in two terms has constructed more law rule changes then labour did and National before it.

      You don’t watch Parliament I can see!

      This mob have made such wide ranging changes that can only be called over the top.

      Building amendment act changes that now restrict anyone from changing windows or house roofing cladding for just one instance here. This government have placed so many controls on our lives now that we will need to have a three term opposition to reverse it all again.

      Don’t talk about less government.

      National wants to control now all local Governance from Parliament next, so is that “far less government intrusion”?

      Bullshit straighten your head out and look at the facts.

    • tricledrown 1.8

      Harriet then why do you support a party that intrudes into everyones privacy and is spending hundreds of millions on consultants replacing cheap public servants with retired and retarded National party politicians on 10 times the pay!

  2. Tautoko Viper 2

    Thanks, r0b, for laying out the choice so clearly.

    • aerobubble 2.1

      Rubbish. its utterly stupid to call National stable. Blocking change merely backs up the rot. Take our roading system, should have been built 50 years ago, four lane (two each way) from Auckland to Wellington. CGT, GST off food, all available in OZ, why aren’t we matching Australias tax system???? National aren’t about stability, and Labour are only catch up. Nothing inspired comes out of the Beehive, ever, though they all seem to make out their brilliant.

  3. vto 3

    I think you’re missing a component or two r0b.

    “Like Bill English before him – Key has no idea what he wants to do with a third term.”

    I think in fact they know exactly what they want to do – they are just not telling us. I believe there would be more change and radical change from a third term Key government. They are just being dishonest pricks in not telling us. English has let slip that they intend radical restructuring of government, for one example.

    do not be deceived …

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      Yep, they have a plan alright. An assault on human rights at every level of government, with a smiley wavy face.

      • yeshe 3.1.1

        +100 OAB

        They will loot and plunder everything including Cullen Fund and ACC funds.

        Radically privatise health, schools, prisons etc etc.

        100% gut the RMA

        Steal what is left to steal from ChCh.

        They will make Act look like a left wing party by the time they’re done.

    • grumpystilskin 3.2

      +1

    • Foreign Waka 3.3

      Well Mrs Bennett has just recently announced that several thousand people will not feature on the unemployed list when Nat is elected. Since there are no jobs to go to it is anyone’s guess what that means. More privatization of the last remnants that are not bolted to the floor will be another surprise – Kiwi bank, Superfund and Air NZ.

  4. BM 4

    Active player in the world markets,one of the top performing economies.
    Country at Greece levels within the year,

    Of these two visions of the future, I know which I prefer.

    • dv 4.1

      Current debt clock BM
      88,400,645,187

    • vto 4.2

      BM you prefer the vision that sees those at the bottom of the ladders pilloried, harassed, vilified and paid less than it costs to keep a slave. Recently heard people like you getting completely stuck into those at the bottom. I was sickened at their ignorance and their ugliness.

      Your lot sicken me.

      Stomp on the poor.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

        BM you prefer the vision that sees those at the bottom of the ladders pilloried, harassed, vilified

        in the next term the Lords of the Castle, if they get the chance, will be ordering the pouring of boiling oil and burning pitch on to those at the bottom of the ladders.

        (I’m pretty sure this is how some of them see it as well).

      • BM 4.2.2

        We have one of the most generous welfare systems in the world.

        • vto 4.2.2.1

          don’t you get it? don’t you understand the point made?

          • BM 4.2.2.1.1

            Shut up with you moaning bene and eat your gruel.

            And you better enjoy it or else…

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1.1.1

              Beatings. Beatings of beneficiaries will continue until morale improves.

              • vto

                A indefinite general strike by all those on the minimum wage would be interesting wouldn’t it …..

                I wonder how the effect of such would compare to the effect if people such as this cock went on strike? http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/10511823/Power-boss-on-32k-a-week

                It would certainly highlight who has lesser value …. which do you think it would be BM? Which would cause the nation more suffering and discomfort?

                • Colonial Viper

                  A indefinite general strike by all those on the minimum wage would be interesting wouldn’t it …..

                  Combined with a brown strike…

                • BM

                  Problem with minimum wage jobs is that the person doing it is easily replaced by either some one else or as technology becomes more affordable, a machine.

                  Plenty of people on the dole who’d be more than happy to swap places with the ones who went on strike.

                  • vto

                    oh so you’re a scab too

                    • BM

                      I don’t do minimum wage.

                    • vto

                      you mean you don’t take your place in society

                      you just take your place in the first-in-first-served queue and bugger everyone else. the selfish greedy queue

                      you should vote for the weirdo right wing parties – they are your type

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Plenty of people on the dole who’d be more than happy to swap places with the ones who went on strike.

                    Thanks for elucidating why capitalists like to keep an excess labour pool of desperate workers chasing after too few jobs.

                    • BM

                      The key is to not stay in minimum wage jobs, make yourself more valuable than some dumb machine.

                      People should always be looking at improving their skill base, it’s the only way you’ll be successful.

                  • Plenty of people on the dole who’d be more than happy to swap places with the ones who went on strike.

                    Which means that the economy is not providing enough jobs for people – also shows, sadly, why some believe that a ‘pool of surplus labour’ is a very good thing.

                    Edit; Sorry about the overlap with your comment CV. Was too quick to ‘publish’.

                  • tricledrown

                    boringly maniacal just minimal thinking

                • Rob

                  “A indefinite general strike by all those on the minimum wage would be interesting wouldn’t it ….”

                  Wow VTO, who would be serving Kim.Com, how would he live.

        • Cleangreen 4.2.2.2

          BM said “We have one of the most generous welfare systems in the world.”

          Bullshit,

          we don’t have one of the most generous welfare systems at all I should know as a disabled person.

          Canada has a twice better system than we have sadly you are way out there.
          They have every part of the body covered under both unemployment and disablement, while we only have partial.

          Example; no dental or emergency teeth repair benefits.

          Do you know anything?

          They have food benefits and several accommodation allowances we will never have.

          Travel benefits also.

          ACC here I had an accident and require $3200 dental restoration and ACC will only pay a third!

          Sorry no more time to waste on this.

    • Tracey 4.3

      Both are imaginary

    • minarch 4.4

      but no one pays their taxes in Greece,

      funny i though no taxes would have suited you …..

      Horst Reichenbach, head of the EU taskforce offering technical help to the Greek government, said the amount of unpaid tax was estimated to be “in the order of 60bn euros

      • BM 4.4.1

        That’s probably because the government and public service is so corrupt any tax you pay is probably going directly into their back pocket.

        Who would want to contribute to that?

    • Wreckingball 4.5

      Correct BM, why change a winning formula?

      Minimum wage is already very high as a function of both average and median wage compared to other countries. We are growing faster. Wages, including those at the bottom, are rising faster than inflation. It is all good news.

      Don’t change what is working.

    • Foreign Waka 4.6

      Emphasis on player? Do we want to play or do we want to build an economy that has some backbone and is not entirely reliant on cows and pollution?
      Besides, looking at the debt level, access to care and assistance – we already give Greece a run for the money – punt intended.

  5. mickysavage 5

    “[I]f I may steal Mickysavage’s list”

    Of course. This particular part of the debate really jarred with me. Cunliffe’s proposals were backed by considerable policy work with the final one being aspirational whereas Key’s were a grab bag of slogans with no thought behind them. The job creation line is a joke. National has been promising for years to create more jobs. For instance:

    Budget 2010 – 170,000 new jobs promised over 4 years
    Budget 2011 – 170,000 new jobs promised over 4 years
    Budget 2012 – 154,000 new jobs promised over 4 years

    The last two budgets have not contained any promises about jobs.

    And the performance? The 2013 budget says that there were 50,000 more jobs than two years ago. In a time of population growth this is not unusual or particularly laudable.

    • ianmac 5.1

      I suspect that they claim say a lawn mowing contractor starting up as a tick to National. The fact that two other lawn mowing businesses went bust is not counted. Churn. Churn. Churn.

  6. Skinny 6

    CON-ACT getting into parliament and the real likelihood of Mana getting wiped out starting to loom large. Spiteful pricks like Garner and his side kick Gower pushing this makes me sick.

    I hope the Conservatives fall just short of the mark keeping options of a Left coalition alive till Peters pulls his power play and sits on the cross benches. Key knows Winston will further erode Nationals support then pull up stumps and force a snap election after taking Key down.

    Obviously we are hoping for a major lift in party votes for Labour to about 28-30 percent which is what should transpire on policy alone.

    If not remain calm and plan for going to the polls within 12 months. I see no need to panic and ‘any disloyal’ Labour MP’s need to be given a clear message they will be sacked if any leadership attempt is made.

    We are right in this fight and I’ll be out Saturday in the poor suburbs in my area on the mega phone, and with runners door knocking and arranging getting voters to the polling booths. Never give up the fight!

    • cogito 6.1

      🙂 🙂 🙂

      Will absolutely make my day if Craig fails!

      Disenchanted Nats who want to send a message to Mr Keyrrupt should vote for Winston, not that walking duck.

      And all the best to Hone and Laila!

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Craig on 4.6% please. High enough, but also low enough to stop him from trying to get a stupid recount.

  7. ianmac 7

    Funny how those commentators on the last Leaders Debate failed to notice that David had a 100 day plan, but John had nothing tangible. They just concentrated on the noise and not the content.

    • Skinny 7.1

      I recently had team National on about they don’t appear to have a plan. They were adamant they have a plan “oh don’t worry we have a plan alright”. I replied “that’s what I am worried about, you have a plan but choose not to share it because a lot of people won’t like your plan will they?” I got a smile, which told me a typical third term National Government plan. They actually managed to avoid this narrative being widely aired which is a pity as there was plenty of vote leakage in it I felt.

    • Foreign Waka 7.2

      Because the commercial people are scared stiff as their fleecing of the NZ economy would end. Of cause they buy the commentary and advertisement, the reporters and interviewers, even if its indirect (its difficult to contradict the boss, isn’t it?). NZ has no independent reporting anymore and most people are just bamboozled. I am often amazed how little NZ people understand what actually is going on around them.

  8. cogito 8

    BREAKING NEWS – Just seen this…. re the Con-job party

    http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/colin-craigs-press-secretary-quits-2014091809

    Great news! Go Winston!

    • Skinny 8.1

      She was nuts anyway totally unprofessional! I posted something on a NZF candidates fackbook page and mentioned something about looking forward to seeing Peters at a local gig I had arranged. Within the hour Craigs PS rings me getting all pushy, towards the end of the conversation the crazy cow screams at her pet dog that I could hear barking in the background. I actually said “lady you need to learn some manners it’s 5.30 pm on a Sunday calling me is bad enough but I accept your campaigning, but screaming on the top of your lungs down the phone line really.”

      • AsleepWhileWalking 8.1.1

        If this is what he does to what was probably a balanced and calm individual when she was hired, wait to see the damage he does in office.

  9. fambo 9

    The only way we are going to have stability in future is through ongoing progressive changes to the way we live life.

    Stability and change are not exclusive of each other.

    The fear half of the population have over the radical environment we face means they are grasping at the belief that if we don’t act somehow everything will stay the same and stable. The fact is, nothing is going to stay the same, ever, in our lifetime. The faster we adapt to this rapidly changing environment, the more our society will have the mechanisms to cope. If we don’t, the more chaos and instability there will be.

    • Sans Cle 9.1

      Agreed:
      “Steady-State” (in ecological terms, but could be applied to political also), and I for one am ready to move to the next state.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

        It’s desperately needed…and we don’t have a huge amount of time to reorientate our economy and society for it.

    • yeshe 9.2

      hear, hear fambo

    • Cleangreen 9.3

      Well done fambo,
      We have become such a selfish society, without caring for others, and the way we need to change.

      This is what causes wars.

      Kinder gentler caring society is needed now.

  10. blue leopard 10

    One would have to be a complete fool to think that a National government is going to create stability.

    You don’t get stability from a government that acts in bad faith.
    You don’t get stability from marginalizing people.
    You don’t get stability by removing opportunities.

    You get what we have had in this election campaign. Scandal after scandal, crisis after crisis and an increase in litigious behaviour.

  11. David 11

    Maybe Key is unable to state the agenda because it is simply unpalatable.
    Like the open bank resolution or like the actual implications of the GSCB reforms that we were labelled as misinformed over, regardless of the fact that the misinformation was deliberate.
    Whatever the hidden agenda is I doubt it has NZ and it’s citizens interests at heart.

  12. Jeeves POnzi 12

    Hold steady- the NZeocoms war of attrition against us has begun to bear fruit for them.

    But like all of those the world over who put themselves waaay above the needs of others, who put wealth and toys above humanity and society, who enjoy having others to ridicule- well so it is that the very nature of their shallowness means that the psychology used against the masses can be easily reversed and focused against the few.

    BUT :
    Even if two sheep on the truck know exactly whats happening- they are still sheep.

    Let us spend the next three years organising ourselves into a well oiled machine. Instead of Dirty Politics, let us develop a model of Stunning Politics.
    Let the ethics we believe in be the battle armour against smears.
    Let our love of country and people be the fire in our bellies.
    Let our sense of unity BE our sense of unity.

    When they cliche,smear,slur,dismiss – point it out and fire back facts.
    When our people do it- slam them hard. We must be above it.
    And it will be a steep learning curve for a lot of us- we need to put substance over passion.
    We ARE better people than this. We may be in the minority- but we ARE cleverer and CAN do it.

    But let us be as organised and utterly ruthless in our will to nullify them and their ways, as they have been with us and ours.

    But let’s do it ethically, like the brainy people we are.

    Kia kaha NZ
    Tiocfaidh ar la

  13. Draco T Bastard 13

    Like Bill English before him – Key has no idea what he wants to do with a third term.

    Don’t kid yourself. Key knows exactly what’s planned but he know’s if he told us there’s no way that National would get back in.

  14. tricle up 14

    Of course he does the continued pleasing of the square table and belief that screwing down wages will fill one of the tanks and big and small business will expand and lead the way first , while letting the tank of social distribution to peter along.With strong growth the business money is creamed for building up there own assets. This process is never in complete step with social distribution.tricle down we surmise you are on half showers and hopefully next week you can see the monsoon season building..what we expect is fairness and balance for all in this long white cloud..

  15. Cleangreen 15

    John Key is only the facilitator for global forces such as big global industrialists and Corporates.

    All these large elitists are there in volume as members around the Bilderberg Group tables at planning sessions as they plot to take control of the globe.

    Such a secret society fitted John Keys style as he has been keen to have made meetings with them in 2011-12.

    We believe they have required Key to facilitate allowing them to gain control of our assets, water energy and oil/gas reserves and pastoral land holdings.

    He will sell this country and leave when he has done his job.

    Ask yourself why didn’t Key tell us he attended meetings at the Bilderberg group as representing himself as;

    John Key Prime Minister of New Zealand in 2011-12?

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