Team Trump pretty much calls for civil war

Written By: - Date published: 8:02 am, August 3rd, 2016 - 168 comments
Categories: us politics - Tags: ,

I thought nothing that Donald Trump could do would surprise me any more. Picking a losing fight with the impeccable parents of a dead soldier. Parading his foreign policy ignorance and sexism. Posing for a photo “eating” KFC with a knife and fork. Same as ever.

But this – yeah this was a surprise:

Trump labels Clinton ‘the devil’ and suggests election will be rigged

Donald Trump has claimed that there is a possibility of the US presidential election being “rigged” as he tried to divert attention away from a disastrous week for his campaign by also labelling his rival Hillary Clinton as “the devil” …

Wow, OK. But wait – there’s more. Team Trump went further:

Roger Stone, a long time confidante of Trump, amplified these concerns in an interview with a far right wing radio show.

Stone said: “I think we have widespread voter fraud, but the first thing that Trump needs to do is begin talking about it constantly.”

Laying out a strategy for Trump to adopt, Stone added: “He needs to say for example, today would be a perfect example: ‘I am leading in Florida. The polls all show it. If I lose Florida, we will know that there’s voter fraud. If there’s voter fraud, this election will be illegitimate, the election of the winner will be illegitimate, we will have a constitutional crisis, widespread civil disobedience, and the government will no longer be the government.’”

He also promised a “bloodbath” if the Democrats attempted to “steal” the election.

Team Trump is pretty much calling for civil war if they don’t get their way. We are through the looking glass.

168 comments on “Team Trump pretty much calls for civil war”

  1. Sabine 1

    conservatism can not fail it can only be failed. Obviously, he can’t loose as he is the most spectacular, healthiest, funniest, smartes, richest of them all and obviously everyone would want to vote for him, and if they don’t vote for him it must be because of fraud, election rigging and such.

    again repeat after me

    conservatism can not fail
    it can only be failed.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Hillary Clinton has Lockheed Martin, Goldman Sachs and the rest of the K Street corporate lobbyists backing her.

      She’s got powerful friends.

      • Sabine 1.1.1

        Hilary Clinton has pretty much every women in the US that still needs access to the Pill, that needs access to science based female centric health care, that still may need an abortion on her side.

        Fuck lockhead martin mate, you are blind sided by your prejudice. AS Cecile Richards from Planned Parenthood said, Women will decide this election, women and their right to bodily autonomy, women who know that if they can’t control their fertility (starting from about 10 – 11 years old till 46+ years +) they can’t control their lifes – very much like the girls in NZ that don’t go to school because they don’t have the 30$+ a month for sanitary napkins, tampons, painkillers etc etc to manage their monthly menstruation.

        Maybe you should read up on Mike Pence….who is btw backed by the Koch Brothers. But i guess for men these issues are secondary as with most ‘female centric issues’ and like Mike Pence you won’t need sanitary napkins, tampons, hysterectomies, abortions, food stamps for single mothers, medicaid for sick children raised by single mothers on three minimum wage jobs etc etc etc. – and you as much as him will never risk being thrown into prison for a miscarriage or refused healthcare while suffering a miscarriage in a state that has literally outlawed certain medical practices on the count of every sperm is sacred and must be carried to term, and yes, these are issues for women. May pay to listen to that every now and then.

        • McFlock 1.1.1.1

          Hilary Clinton has pretty much every women in the US that still needs access to the Pill, that needs access to science based female centric health care, that still may need an abortion on her side.

          Not to mention every heterosexual man who doesn’t want to procreate but does want to have sex with those women. Oh, and who is capable of considering consequences.

        • North 1.1.1.2

          At 10.47 this morning Sabine owned Colonial Viper whom at 10.48 this morning became Colonial Vapour.

      • Ralf Crown 1.1.2

        True, and that is maybe why she will loose in the end. With Clinton the USA rape of the rest of the world will continue, with Trump maybe there is a chance. The US propaganda in New Zealand, and that kiwis actually believe it, may cause us to loose the China market and our entire welfare and lifestyle.

        • red-blooded 1.1.2.1

          Ralf, this comment is incoherent. A few little things:
          1) Learn the difference between “loose” (the adjective that can be applied to Trump’s lips and his morals) and “lose” (the verb for what he’s going to do, come election time).
          2) How is the US raping the rest of the world? Is the Us raping Australia? Fiji? NZ? Poland..? There’s some awful stuff happening in some parts of the world and the US is certainly morally compromised, but don’t let’s get too caught up in hyperbole.
          3) Pray tell, what do you see Clinton doing that would cause NZ to lose our trading status with China? Is that trading status an entirely good thing, BTW? Surely there are a heck of a lot of moral compromises involved in this relationship? Either way, just what is it that you think Trump would do to protect this status? Pray explain your reasoning (and I use that term very loosely).
          4) Do our entire welfare (system?) and lifestyle depend on China? Since when?

          • Ralf Crown 1.1.2.1.1

            Apologies that I do not reach your high academic standard in spelling and that I sometimes misspell. Raping. 1,200 US overseas military bases, biggest attack force in history, spend more on military than the rest of the world, and they are not shy of using it as in Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Guam, Marshall Islands, Iran, Libya,, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia , Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan , Sudan, Kosovo, Yemen , Pakistan, Syria, osv. Just this decade 2 million people would have been alive if it was not for the USA interventions all over the world. Coming to your neighborhood soon. If New Zealand loses China, I guess we can live on all the surplus milk powder, or eat your “moral”. ANZUS will not feed a hungry child, especially those 30% who go hungry today. With Clinton it will go worse, she is in the pocket of the “rapists”, with Trump, at least there is some hope. Our lifestyle depend just now on the USA, USA negotiations are like, “A gun to yur head, we are in agreement – right, otherwise we fire on you”.

    • Enough is Enough 1.2

      The American public has the choice between a truly despicable candidate who is deep in the pockets of Wall Street, is completely inconsistent in its policy positions from year to year, and in no way shape or form represents the interests of working class American.

      However there is an even worse candidate than her and his name is Trump.

      It really is depressing.

      You’d almost want to vote for one to keep the other one out.

  2. John G 2

    I think Trump actually wants to lose. If he wins he will be constrained by the fact he actually has to do the job. If he loses he can hold (his version of) the moral high ground and be endlessly idolised by fox news et al.

    • esoteric pineapples 2.1

      One of his key campaign people said at the time she resigned that Trump didn’t expect to get so far and actually didn’t expect/want to be President. Unfortunately, I can’t find the original story but there are plenty of articles online suggesting he may actually be trying to lose the election.

    • Yep. It’s Boris Johnson all over again. Do as much damage as possible, then walk away.

      • Colonial Viper 2.2.1

        Exactly like UK Labour MPs.

        Start up an unwinnable coup without having done the maths.

        Prove how disconnected and dismissive they are of the party membership by trying to silence hundreds of thousands of ordinary members.

        Make Labour look like an out of control mess and the Conservatives in total control in comparison.

        Then call the whole coup thing off after 3 weeks.

  3. Corvidae 3

    Has The Standard got a preference for the US election?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      The Standard is a machine. It doesn’t think let alone have preferences. I’d get that into your head soon if you want to stick around 😈

    • r0b 3.2

      The Standard is a computer in lprents apartment and has no opinion on the matter. As to the authors – the day we all agree on anything will be a very strange day indeed! I believe CV is the only Trump supporter. TRP and most of the rest back (with varying degrees of reluctance) Clinton. I was firmly Sanders myself – don’t know what I’d do if I had a vote now.

      • Garibaldi 3.2.1

        The lesser of two evils is still evil. I don’t think either candidate is suitable. I also think the USA is a bloody farce and should be held to ridicule by the rest of the world.

      • weka 3.2.2

        “TRP and most of the rest back (with varying degrees of reluctance) Clinton.”

        I’m not so sure about that r0b. Holding one’s nose while voting Clinton is not the same as backing her 😉

        “I was firmly Sanders myself – don’t know what I’d do if I had a vote now.”

        If the election wasn’t looking close, I’d vote Stein easily.

        • Pasupial 3.2.2.1

          Fortunately, not being an USAian I don’t have to choose (though we all have to suffer the consequences). Stein does have an attraction for many who used to favour Trump – better that than just stay at home on voting day if you can’t bear to support either a warmonger or a sociopath.

          some believe Nader’s candidacy cost Gore the election.
          Perez said she is aware of that, but “can’t get herself” to vote for Clinton.

          “I think I would regret more voting for her than I would voting for Jill and then possibly risking a Trump presidency,” she said.

          “Because it condones all of the rigging and the fraud that went on and you’re letting go of the prime opportunity to push forward a third party.”

          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/02/jill-stein-sanders-supporters-green-party

          From the Dem’s campaign perspective; a voter switching from supporting their candidate to the Greens is only half as bad as one going all the way over to the GOP (+1 becoming 0, rather than -1 votes). Personally, at this point I’m more interested in the downticket elections. It seems more likely that Clinton’s calculated campaign will lead to increased Democratic representation, than Trump’s; “it’s all about me”, bluster will aid other Republican candidates.

      • lprent 3.2.3

        As to the authors – the day we all agree on anything will be a very strange day indeed!

        Indeed. If I was in the US I wouldn’t have supported Sanders. His heart was in the right place but his head was somewhat vague. However he was pretty useful in pushing a more progressive stance into the democrats.

        The problem is that Trump being on the other side is going to push a pile of moderate Republicans up for grabs. So Clinton and the democrats up for election will be trying to get their reliable voting for themselves. So they won’t be wanting to scare the horses.

  4. DH 4

    This is getting pathetic. Leave all the false accusations to the yanks, we don’t need this shite here.

    • r0b 4.1

      Like it or not DH, American politics affects us all. And like it or not, Trump and his people said what they said.

      • DH 4.1.1

        Sorry Rob but that’s just horseshit. This ‘Team Trump’ you quote is a figment of your imagination. You’re making shit up mate, that Stone Guy doesn’t speak for Trump and he’s not part of the team.

        Trump will eventually lose because he’s pissed off too many powerful media people. It’s inevitable that the tide would turn, the media will just keep throwing mud until some sticks and that’s what is happening. But it’s dirty, filthy and disgusting.

        • te reo putake 4.1.1.1

          Stone was talking about what Trump had already said, DH. You owe r0b an apology.

          “I’m afraid the election’s gonna be rigged, I have to be honest.”

          Donald Trump, Columbus, Ohio. Monday, 1 August.

          “I’m telling you, November 8th, we’d better be careful because that election is going to be rigged,” Trump said. “And I hope the Republicans are watching closely or it’s going to be taken away from us.”

          Donald Trump, Fox News. Monday, 1 August.

          • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1

            Liberals accept that Florida was stolen from Al Gore through fraud.

            There are voting machines dumped off a boat at the bottom of the Great Lakes.

            Studies have shown that computerised voting machines used in the USA have next to no security and can be successfully interfered with by even amateurs.

            The Simpsons have even covered it.

            It’s not like voter fraud is an unknown event in the USA.

            • te reo putake 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Doesn’t stop your 1%er hero sounding like a loser, though. It’s like he’s realised he isn’t going to win and he’s getting his lame excuses in early. The problem being it’s not actually going to be rigged. He’s simply going to lose on his merits. Or lack of them.

              • Colonial Viper

                Interesting how you can say that when it’s clear that the Democratic primaries process has been rigged at each step.

                Oh how quickly liberals forget their whining about the bias of the mainstream media when it is finally working for your establishment candidate.

            • Lanthanide 4.1.1.1.1.2

              “Liberals accept that Florida was stolen from Al Gore through fraud.”

              I think what LIberals accept is that the Supreme Court decided along partisan lines to stop the recount that had been ordered by the Florida Supreme Court.

              • Colonial Viper

                And the turning away of Black voters at polling booths, etc.?

                • Lanthanide

                  I prefer to look at actual verifiable facts.

                    • Lanthanide

                      Odd to link to a story that seems to be about the process underway, when these events happened 15 years ago. Surely there’s articles that say what the outcomes of these hearings actually were?

                    • red-blooded

                      Golly, CV, so now The Guardian’s a reputable source of info? Seems like just a few days ago that you were knocking it and saying that it is biased…
                      Comment:Open mike 29/06/2016
                      Comment:Open mike 29/06/2016
                      Comment:Open mike 07/07/2016
                      Comment:Open mike 07/07/2016
                      …I could go on (as you tend to), but I think the point has been made.

                  • adam

                    like exit polls?

                    • Lanthanide

                      Exit polls are just numbers. They have to be interpreted to draw conclusions from them.

                      They’re clearly not in the same league of ‘factual information’ as minuted court proceedings are.

            • McFlock 4.1.1.1.1.3

              It’s not like voter fraud is an unknown event in the USA.

              Actually, voter fraud is minimal in the USA.

              Electoral fraud, gerrymandering, misrecording votes, blocking access to booths in Democrat (african-american) areas, illegal de-registering of voters, and arbitrarily overruling the ballot and declaring the candidate with fewer votes the winner – these are all well known in the USA. Oh, and “preventing voter fraud” by demanding forms of id that your targeted demographic doesn’t carry as much as others.

              • Colonial Viper

                thanks for pointing that out McFlock I needed to use a more encompassing term there.

        • r0b 4.1.1.2

          This ‘Team Trump’ you quote is a figment of your imagination.

          My “imagination” has a web site:
          http://www.teamtrump2016.com/

          You’re making shit up mate, that Stone Guy doesn’t speak for Trump and he’s not part of the team.

          Not officially, just in practice:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Stone

  5. James 5

    Just as a parallel many on here comment that poll results are “rigged” here in NZ. (Cannot remember if the same people said about the election but too lazy to look).

    Perhaps when the look at it from another view they can see how crazy the look always trotting the rigged line out.

    as for calling her the Devil – it’s pretty shit and will look worse for him than her.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      Yes, right wing trash have made various pathetic accusations of vote rigging against Mike Williams, for example.

      As for Trump, like most people on the centre-right, he accuses his opponents of the things he intends to do himself.

    • Remember when John Key called the Labour Party, “The Devil Beast”?

      • Phil 5.2.1

        Remember when Helen Clark said Don Brash was Cancer?

        In 1983, Joshua understood “the only winning move is not to play.” It’s a pity most politicians still aren’t that smart.

        • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1

          “corrosive and cancerous”, it was, Phil, in response to nasty rumours about her husband. Key’s “Devil Beast” was the result of…what provocation, do you recall?
          *smiles sweetly

          “Prime Minister Helen Clark yesterday attacked National leader Don Brash as a “corrosive and cancerous” person and unfit to lead New Zealand – just moments after she condemned the use of personal attacks and extreme rhetoric.

          She also called him divisive and polarising and invited the National Party caucus to get rid of him.

          The description came as a shock because it seemed the political temperature had dropped since Sunday and Monday when a furious Helen Clark accused Dr Brash and National of spreading malicious rumours about her husband, Dr Peter Davis.”

          • In Vino 5.2.1.1.1

            Well said Robert. I have been waiting for a devastating response, but it appears that Phil may have discovered that he had to take back an overdue library book.

            • Phil 5.2.1.1.1.1

              I’m flattered you think my comeback would be that good and you’re waiting with bated breath.

              Anyway, why would I be writing a response when Robert and I are basically in agreement? This shit is unacceptable, and we should expect better from our elected representatives.

  6. George Hendry 6

    According to the US Election Justice Network, their work, usefully summarised in shows 107 and 110 of the American political comedy show Redacted Tonight, shows convincingly that Mrs Clinton should not be the Democratic nominee, as she was ‘elected’ through seven methods of electoral fraud variously applied across many states, quite apart from media collusion with the Democratic National Conference and systematic media bias.

    Bernie Sanders said several times that, according to polls, as the Democratic nominee he would be far more certain to beat Mr Trump, with which all evidence I have seen seems to agree.

    While Trump is being set up as excessively dangerous, we could note that he might be far less so if the partisan media decided to apply to him the censorship they applied to Sanders for so long.

    Also, as long as the Democratic party is represented by a candidate known to have got there via many rigged elections, quite apart from other widely perceived violations of justice on her account, they also share responsibility for validating the excessive statements Trump makes.

    There is so much the other parties ( Democratic and media) are doing wrong, and which is now widely known by the electorate, that no matter what Trump says he will still poll well and possibly be elected.

    Clinton and Trump are , in my view, essentially differently drawn pictures on opposite sides of the same forged banknote. No matter who ‘wins’, the election has already been rigged.

    • RedLogix 6.1

      And therein lies the problem the Democrats have created. Everyone could see the huge, enthusiastic crowds Sanders drew, while Clinton’s could barely fill the frame of a photo-op.

      Everyone can see the polling that showed Sanders way more popular than Clinton, and yet she won the nomination. Regardless of what really happened, the perception is that it stinks. And that is but one small step away from thinking that the Dem Primary may have been rigged. And certainly the work of this USA ENJ Network has poured petrol onto this smouldering suspicion.

      What then is surprising about Trump fanning it into flame?

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        The Democratic establishment screwed the scrum from the very top levels in order to shoe horn in the weaker, less popular, neocon backed candidate.

        Clinton’s BS claims that Russia leaked the DNC emails demonstrates why the neocon establishment backs her – she intends to continue escalating the Cold War against Russia – even as she took big money into the Clinton Foundation from Russian business interests as little as 4 or 5 years ago as Sec State.

        • Garibaldi 6.1.1.1

          It is more than just the DNC though isn’t it ? She has been chosen by the “you know who” group and will be planted in place to carry on with the plan. Trump is nothing but a diversion now. So much for democracy – it doesn’t exist in the USA.

      • Phil 6.1.2

        Everyone can see the polling that showed Sanders way more popular than Clinton

        What polling are you looking at? In head-to-head US nationwide match-ups during the democratic primary race (from Sanders’ campaign launch at the end of May 2015 to June 2016) there were 109 polls. Sanders led Clinton in just four of those, and by never more than three percentage points.

        • adam 6.1.2.1

          Start with the exit polls. They are the reason this actually has teeth.

          • Phil 6.1.2.1.1

            Exit polls ain’t perfect.

            The pre-vote polls of the Democrat primary races did a pretty good job of calling the results, in what are fundamentally difficult circumstances (e.g. low turnout levels, voter turn-out composition etc). There was one major outlier, Michigan, but the post-vote analysis, undertaken by people like Nate Silver at 538, did a reasonable job of explaining why the polls might have missed badly in that instance.

            • adam 6.1.2.1.1.1

              Don’t downplay that only one was out, the majority were out and that is the problem.

              “Exit polls ain’t perfect.”

              sheesh anymore facile arguments? Seriously xxx is not perfect or zzz is not perfect. What we supposed to use then, divining sticks and the vibe?, ‘yeah man the vibe, can you feel it’.

              So all the elections monitoring outfits who use exit polling to measure if a election is rigged or not – have got it wrong. Time to bring out the divining sticks and get your mojo on!

              • Lanthanide

                “So all the elections monitoring outfits who use exit polling to measure if a election is rigged or not – have got it wrong. Time to bring out the divining sticks and get your mojo on!”

                I’ve never heard of these elections monitoring outfits. Can you link to some of them? Have they produced reports highlighting potential problems in the Democratic primaries? If so, please link to them as well. Then we will all be informed about what really happened.

                • adam

                  I was talking in general about how exit polls help keep elections honest Lanthanide, and here is one outfit who deem exit polling very important to measuring election legitimacy.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe#Legal_status

                  That said, most of the major networks do exit polls in the USA. As do the political parties themselves. This work formed the basis for many of the investigations and criticisms.

                  Try http://www.gregpalast.com/ that should also help with some of your questions.

                  Try here http://trustvote.org/ are a very good source as well, being proffessors of political science, other accidemics and lawyers.

                  • Lanthanide

                    So no actual reports from “election monitoring outfits” showing that the democratic primaries were rigged, based on exit polls, then?

                    • adam

                      You did not follow the links then?

                    • Lanthanide

                      I did, I didn’t see any “election monitoring outfits” that had reports (as in, white papers) showing the democratic primaries were rigged, based on exit polls.

                      You linked to a recognised “election monitoring outfit” on wikipedia, but there was nothing at the link that was a report on the democratic primaries.

                      Greg Palast appears to be an individual journalist.

                      Trustvote doesn’t appear to have a hugely long track record. I did find this on their site where they talk about the exit polls in the primaries, but apart from making assertions, there doesn’t seem to be any actual conclusive proof of anything: http://trustvote.org/protecting-our-elections/

                    • adam

                      Sorry in hindsight, you are picking on a specific line I used, and I forgot that is the way you like to argue Lanthanide. So apologies for not picking up on that sooner.

                      For the democratic primaries, apart for the ngo’s and journalist looking at data generated by media and parties themselves. There was no specific “election monitoring outfits”. If you discount journalist and ngo’s who looked at the data, there was no mandated, nor state funded organisation involved.

                      By my comment was a broad brush about exit polls and the fact they are used as a tool to monitor elections by organisation like the OSCE, UN and the countries like USA itself, when they monitor elections. In some case like the 2012 election the FBI did look at what the people at trustvote.org did bring to their attention, and specifically in Ohio , the use of exit polling data coupled with “watching the machines” was a part of that process – hence my video down below about Rove lossing it.

                    • Lanthanide

                      “Sorry in hindsight, you are picking on a specific line I used, and I forgot that is the way you like to argue Lanthanide. So apologies for not picking up on that sooner.”

                      It only makes sense to argue on the things you’ve actually said. If you’ve said things in a misleading way, or said something in one way but actually meant something else, then it wouldn’t really be possible to argue with you at all because there’d be no meaning conveyed by your actual words.

                      “By my comment was a broad brush about exit polls and the fact they are used as a tool to monitor elections by organisation like the OSCE, UN and the countries like USA itself, when they monitor elections.”

                      Right, but exit polls by themselves, unless they are very convincing, isn’t enough to say that fraud has happened. They’re a statistical tool, and so are liable to statistical error.

                      The line on trustvote that the US government considers a variance of greater than 2% to be an indicator of problems in a vote is classic misleading stuff. Firstly, there was no link to actually back it up, and secondly, a national vote in another country is quite different from a primary vote for one party in one state in the US, in terms of size, and in terms of how reliable the exit polls in each instance really are going to be.

                      Now, if they presented evidence showing that the exit polling methods and process used in the democratic primaries were on par, or superior to those used in foreign elections, then this statement would be relevant and would warrant further examination. But they haven’t presented that evidence to back them up.

                      Or to use a crude analogy, it’s like homeopathy supporters touting the studies of clinical trials that were rejected from publication in the major journals due to inadequate methodological processes, and treating them as if they have the same value and relevance as studies that were published in the major journals. Yes, there might be compelling evidence in the rejected studies, but on the face of it the two things aren’t really comparable.

                    • adam

                      Actually I’m using it as a door to open your mind to more going on.

                      The whole voting process was a joke. Arizona which made the news, was but one example. So lets take Arizona, less voting booths, problems with registration, and voting machines which did not pass audit.

                      The New York, the whole registration issue comes to head. Less booths to vote, and many votes just not counted. Indeed we have an ongoing court case over that.

                      Finally California a almost perfect storm. Less voting booths, registration problems, issues with untrained or poorly train election officials, the local california candidate getting almost no votes. Almost a million votes not counted, and they will not be counted.

                      And in all three exit polls put Bernie ahead. Actually in what I saw Bernie was ahead in the majority of exit polls after super tuesday – now you do the math. How is that within statistical variance?

                      Look I’m happy h.r.c won, (just another example of same old same old) as far as I’m concerned Bernie was just another establishment candidate. Don’t get me wrong I like some of what he said, but he was weak on Drones, and he was pitiful in other areas. Plus I’m not sure if he was anything more than a sheep dog for the democrats.

                      That said, I’m worried that third parties trying to expand the game, and get the debate about election reform front and centre will be stymied by election fraud.

                      At the end of the day, election fraud is a multidimensional process. And the reality is the democrats do it, and the republicans do it. We need every tool we have to stop it. And I think exit polls help keep politicians and political parties honest, it is just one tool in the bag.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Just think of what hundreds of thousands of cheated Bernie supporters are going to do next. Including over a thousand political organisers/delegates who were ****’ed over at the DNC Convention.

                      Clinton secured a temporary win. And pumped up the pressure cooker that is America’s grass roots discontent on the way.

                • Phil

                  “Exit polls ain’t perfect.”
                  sheesh anymore facile arguments?

                  Meh. No more facile and pathetic than ‘Start with the exit polls’.

                  Don’t downplay that only one was out, the majority were out and that is the problem.

                  I’m not downplaying it at all. Michigan was a terrible miss for polling firms. However, the vast majority of primary polls in the immediate run-up to each state election did a pretty good job of identifying both the winner and their margin of victory. The idea that the elections were rigged against Sanders, and polling (pre-vote or exit) somehow proves it is a simply absurd.

                  • adam

                    Do you understand what exit polls are? And why people use them to monitor elections?

                    Because Phil, you seem to mixing up polls and exit polls – two very different things.

                    • Phil

                      No, I am not mixing the two up. To clarify:

                      1) pre-election polls of the democratic primary races did as good a job of identifying the eventual winner of each state as would be statistically expected, and the margin of victory in each state was not materially or consistently biased in the direction of either candidate (despite your earlier, incorrect, assertion otherwise).

                      2) Exit polls are subject to similar types of bias and error as pre-election polls. That’s just the nature of sampling. I have seen no evidence to suggest that the difference between exit poll results and the actual election results is anything other than normal variation.

        • swordfish 6.1.2.2

          Phil : “What polling are you looking at? In head-to-head US nationwide match-ups during the democratic primary race (from Sanders’ campaign launch at the end of May 2015 to June 2016) there were 109 polls. Sanders led Clinton in just four of those, and by never more than three percentage points.”

          Calculated from Real Clear Politics
          Clinton vs Trump match-ups
          Sanders vs Trump match-ups
          Monthly Average Lead

          Month ……… Clinton Leads Trump ……… Sanders Leads Trump
          2016
          May …………………..C.. + 2…………………………………S.. + 10
          April ………………….C.. + 7…………………………………S.. + 14
          March ……………….C.. + 10……………………………….S.. + 17
          February …………..C.. + 4………………………………….S.. + 8
          January ……………..C.. + 3………………………………….S.. + 15

          • Phil 6.1.2.2.1

            We’re talking about two different things. You’re looking at the hypothetical match-ups between Republican X and Democrat Y. I’m looking at the actual polls of Clinton v Sanders, for the Democratic nomination… and the simple fact is Sanders was clearly the less popular choice for the nomination.

            You also know that Rubio, Kasich, Jeb!, and even Cruz all had better results (over part or all of the same time period) in hypothetical presidential match-ups against Clinton than Trump did, right?

            Should we be suspicious of Trump manipulating the Republican nomination process when he’s in exactly the same position as Clinton? No, because that would be absurd; Trump was clearly the more popular choice among Republicans.

            • swordfish 6.1.2.2.1.1

              Yeah, I realise we’re looking at different categories of one-on-one match-up.

              But Redlogix was making a point about the respective popularity of Clinton and Sanders: “Everyone can see the polling that showed Sanders way more popular than Clinton”. I’m simply pointing to polling that confirms his argument – in the process highlighting a crucial dimension that you’ve ignored.

              Sanders was clearly able to attract significantly more Independent and erstwhile Republican voters than Hillary, while at the same time maintaining the allegiance of the vast majority of Clinton Democrats.

              • Colonial Viper

                His failure was his unwillingness to take corporate money in order to be a corporate shill.

              • Phil

                But Redlogix was making a point about the respective popularity of Clinton and Sanders: “Everyone can see the polling that showed Sanders way more popular than Clinton”. I’m simply pointing to polling that confirms his argument – in the process highlighting a crucial dimension that you’ve ignored.

                I’ve deliberately ignored the polling RedLogix pointed to, because that polling doesn’t directly matter for determining who was going to be the Democrat nominee. I totally accept that Sanders’ supporters could (and did) point to such polling as an argument in favour of Sanders’ candidacy, but it’s clear from the actual primary results (and the Clinton-Sanders head-to-head polling of those primaries) that not enough Democrat primary voters felt the argument in favour of Sanders was compelling.

                This is why I bought up Rubio and Co. They too were making the argument of being the ‘better bet’ for the GOP in the General election , but that wasn’t a compelling argument to Trump supporters.

                Supporters of losing candidates, in either party, simply don’t have a credible case to argue (w.r.t. the primary elections being unfair) on the basis of the hypothetical general election polling.

                (separate post to come on your last paragraph)

    • Pasupial 6.2

      George Hendry

      I think you mean; “Election Justice USA” (googling your USEJN name didn’t get me there). I had a look at their (99 page!) report on the weekend, and might have to have a glance at those “Redacted Tonight” shows. Although the reports focus is on the Democratic Primaries, this seemed not so much as Bernie boosters, as using it as a case study to demonstrate how:

      multiple instances of voter suppression and election fraud have occurred throughout the 2016 presidential primaries. Democratic and Republican candidates have been affected, but demographics favoring Senator Bernie Sanders (e.g., younger voters, independent/unaffiliated voters) have been most heavily affected. This evidence falls into four categories: 1) voter suppression; 2) voter registration tampering (switching of a voter’s party affiliation without their knowledge or consent); 3) illegal voter registration purges; 4) evidence for erroneous or fraudulent voting machine counts.

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J1ecILnk3UUy1KZ2FUT29iQ1E/view?pref=2&pli=1

      Though some disagree and think it is all a diversion from the glory that is Hillary.

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/30/1554556/-Sham-Group-Election-Justice-USA-Set-Up-By-Dead-Enders-To-Smear-Hillary

      • George Hendry 6.2.1

        Kia ora Pasupial 🙂

        Thanks for following up. Not sure how I munged their name (fortunately, not so badly that you couldn’t find them) but it may have been due to following their work from several sources, of which I’ve cited the tidiest summaries I found.

        Re your second reference, well they would wouldn’t they, without even leaning over I can smell the ad hominem on their breath. I prefer to go by the fact that EJUSA aren’t just making allegations but are taking their case to court.

  7. Repateet 7

    There are some idiots in New Zealand repeating that insane garbage from Trump and Stone.

  8. Nelson Muntz 8

    Um, didn’t you idiots accuse George W Bush of stealing the election when he won against what’s his name?

    Duh.

    • Pasupial 8.1

      “Duh” is not a reasoned argument (though may be indicative of your thought processes).

      In regards to the 2000 election, the Democratic party did not threaten civil war in response to that debacle. When the count was suspended in Florida by JEB (GWBush’s brother and then governor), they took the matter before the courts. When the decision went against them, Gore himself presided on the congress process that confirmed victory to Bush (there’s footage of that in Moore’s Farenheit 9/11 movie that I recall).

      I don’t particularly regard GWB’s legalistic win as a victory for democracy, but the FPP electoral college with which the USA is lumbered is a rather flawed system.

  9. Ad 9

    Trump is smart to concentrate on Florida. Not A Fool.

    It’s not as big as California in Electoral College votes, but it’s still – like Gore V Bush – the one that has enough in it to tip the balance. He’s also invoking the Gore V Bush vote count controversy that determined that Presidential race.

    We’ve still got 80 days to go, and Clinton still has high negatives. He has electrified his base, and doing the right thing by demonizing her (i.e. calling her “the devil”) when her negatives are already so strong.

    Hillary will still win the ground game simply through having the machine to harvest votes. But she will not win this phase other than through enabling her Democrat surrogates to distract the Tump team to death. She is no stand-up fighter.

    This electoral race is one more home-grown terrorist attack from victory to Trump. Regrettably.

    • Lanthanide 9.1

      It’s 96 days until the election.

    • Phil 9.2

      This electoral race is one more home-grown terrorist attack from victory to Trump.

      I disagree. Trump’s miserable handling of the Nice attacks, and his weird desire to make the Orlando tragedy all about himself, did not lead to the kind of improvement in polling or favourability that Republicans have banked on in the past.

      Or, to put it another way; Trump is terrible at capitalizing on situations that would normally work in his favour.

      • Ad 9.2.1

        Yes, I was over playing it there. After all I’ve been a Hillary supporter from the beginning.

        Just wanted to make sure no-one thought Trump being a dork would lose him the election.

        • Lanthanide 9.2.1.1

          “Just wanted to make sure no-one thought Trump being a dork would lose him the election.”

          Eh, I dunno. He seems to be getting worse as he goes along. The 538 podcast said that Trump attacking veterans as he did was a bit of a standout moment for them, because *no one* does that, and veterans are largely a non-partisan topic.

          Pence had to publicly disagree with the things Trump was saying. Repeatedly doing that isn’t really a tenable election strategy.

          • joe90 9.2.1.1.1

            Pence had to publicly disagree with the things Trump was saying.

            Pence couldn’t resist the temptation and tried to link the policies of Clinton and Obama to Humayun Khan’s death in 2004.

          • adam 9.2.1.1.2

            Not sure I’d use the words ‘non-partisan’ to describe why no one attacks veterans. In the past – no one has been that stupid.

            A lot of veterans I have had the pleasure to talk, disliked trump for being authoritarian and possible proto-fascist. This last couple of weeks, he is now being called a facist by many veterans. Something which to them is as bad as a communist, and should have no place in the American Republic.

            trump has, to quote one guy I heard the other day say ‘screwed the pooch on this one’

            Watch the bleed to the libertarians, turn into a stampede of votes.

      • Lanthanide 9.2.2

        Interview on Morning Report on Monday with a US correspondent, said that on Saturday morning the Wall Street Journal ran with a headline saying that the economic recovery was under-performing.

        Perfect ammunition for Trump. Instead, he was talking about how that guy’s wife didn’t speak at the convention, and also about how a nude photo of his wife wasn’t a big deal and that “in Europe it’s considered very fashionable”.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.2.1

          To be fair, I think the Murdoch rag put those photos out about Trump’s wife to try and disgrace him with conservatives, and he was obviously not going to let that move pass without comment.

          • Lanthanide 9.2.2.1.1

            Both Murdoch himself, and the NY Post, are strong Trump supporters.

          • Phil 9.2.2.1.2

            Maybe it’s just my perception of the guy, but Trump definitely seems like the kind of man who is totally ok with the world seeing everything his hot (in general public perception terms, not my personal view of Melania Trump’s physical attractiveness) wife is ‘offering’.

  10. Colonial Viper 10

    Full Stone quote in context

    “Yeah, the elections are rigged for one entity or another. So, who are the perpetrators? The perpetrators are the people who manufacture and sell these machines. The most common electronic voting machine, which is really just a computer, is a company called Diebold,” Stone replied.

    Diebold’s top executives and owners of the company are major donors to the Bush’s. Is this a major factor on how George W. Bush quite improbably beat John Kerry? An election that all truths on paper, Kerry should’ve won, and Bush should have lost,” questioned Stone.

    “I think we have widespread voter fraud, but the first thing that Trump needs to do is begin talking about it constantly,” Stone said. “He needs to say for example, today would be a perfect example: ‘I am leading in Florida. The polls all show it. If I lose Florida, we will know that there’s voter fraud. If there’s voter fraud, this election will be illegitimate, the election of the winner will be illegitimate, we will have a constitutional crisis, widespread civil disobedience, and the government will no longer be the government.’”

    “If you can’t have an honest election, nothing else counts,” he continued. “I think he’s gotta put them on notice that their inauguration will be a rhetorical, and when I mean civil disobedience, not violence, but it will be a bloodbath. The government will be shut down if they attempt to steal this and swear Hillary in. No, we will not stand for it. We will not stand for it.”

    • Corvidae 10.1

      If we were to present everything in context, the terrorists win.

    • Lanthanide 10.2

      Right, so if HIllary wins, regardless of the actual vote outcome on the day (which, at the moment, has a fair chance of being a landslide), then the election was fraudulent.

      Only a victory for Trump would be seen as legitimate.

      Ironic that he’d say that Kerry should have won, and that he didn’t shows there was fraud. Since we’re in the same position now, where if Trump wins, it’s more likely that there was fraud in his favour.

      • GregJ 10.2.1

        A landslide? Isn’t it a bit early to predict that?

        Electoral Vote shows the current polling translated to Electoral Votes as:

        Clinton 277; Trump 214; (Tied 47 – Ohio & Florida)

        Obama won in 2012 by 332 to Romney’s 206 – an election that is not regarded as a landslide (35th of 48 in terms of the popular vote margin).

        To rank as a landslide Clinton would have to win by 18% (Herbert Hoover defeated Al Smith in 1928 by a 17.41% margin which was the 10th biggest win in a Presidential Election). To get in the top 20 she would have to beat Franklin Roosevelt’s 9.96% defeat of Wendell Willkie in 1940.

        • Lanthanide 10.2.1.1

          538’s Polls Plus model gives Hillary and 8% chance of winning a landslide, and 66% chance of winning overall.

          The now-cast gives Hillary an 18.8% chance of winning a landslide, and 86% chance of winning overall.

          IMO those are ‘fair chances’.

          Note that a landslide is considered to be winning the popular vote by 10% or more. It has nothing to do with electoral college votes.

          • GregJ 10.2.1.1.1

            Popular vote percent is one way of deciding a landslide but votes in the electoral college (the actual way the result is decided) is another way – Clinton would have to surpass 400+ electoral votes to be in the class of the genuine landslides.

            Getting 80% (430ish) of the Electoral Votes would put her in the top 20 of presidential victories. That’s Reagan 1 & 2, Nixon 2, GWH Bush 1, all of Roosevelt, US Grant, Lincoln 2 territory.

            Not saying it isn’t possible (I can see a Trump campaign exploding spectacularly) but it’s far too early to be predicting that.

            • Lanthanide 10.2.1.1.1.1

              “Not saying it isn’t possible (I can see a Trump campaign exploding spectacularly) but it’s far too early to be predicting that.”

              You can predict any event, with a given certainty.

              I didn’t say “Clinton will get a landslide”, I said “Clinton has a fair chance of a landslide”, and the definition of landslide I am using is 538’s, which they define as winning the popular vote by 10% or more.

              538’s Polls-Plus prediction gives it an 8% chance of happening. They give Trump 1.3% chance.

              • Colonial Viper

                Trump by an easy win IMO. Although yes I am aware that all the polls and trends are against him as 538’s analysis indicates.

    • Phil 10.3

      He needs to say for example, today would be a perfect example: ‘I am leading in Florida. The polls all show it.

      Except, you know… they don’t show it at all. But Trump has never let a little thing like facts get in the way of his campaign.
      http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/florida/

    • Wensleydale 10.4

      Roger Stone is a professional shit-stirrer. He’d set a box of firecrackers off in a creche just for shits and giggles. He’s the kind of man who does things, not because they’re necessary, or serve some greater purpose — he does them out of morbid curiosity. He’s like an 8 year-old burning a slug with a magnifying glass.

    • adam 10.5

      That’s worse in full context, it puts two restrains on the whole election.

      First, people can’t change their minds – not only stupid politics, but really stupid politics.

      Second, it discounts third parties – which I think may be what he is trying, because he is bleeding out to the libertarians almost a percentage point a day (OK OK i’m exaggerating) but the bleed to the libertarians, will turn into rush – if he keeps on doing what he is doing. And I can’t see him stopping. So he is going to hand it to the libertarians.

      Plus the muppet misses the fact that one of the problems for the republicans as they can be called election cheats on par with the democrats, actually on one aspect they are way worse, the whole make it hard for the voter to registrator program was a republican idea. So this is loss, loss for them.

      Sheesh Colonial Viper are you buying this crap. Are you really going to go for the proto fascists over the neoliberal. Both are discredited ideologies, and supporting trump makes you look like you have lost the plot. Important word in that mix fascist, and we can actually call him that at this point.

      I get – “I can’t see how you can call yourself progressive and support h.r.c “- but equally, you can’t support trump and think yourself progressive either.

      • Colonial Viper 10.5.1

        Gawd I’d pick the neoliberal in a heart beat if one were available.

        But not a neocon like Clinton. Especially one who is going to turn the Pacific into a flashpoint with China and Russia.

        I get – “I can’t see how you can call yourself progressive and support h.r.c “- but equally, you can’t support trump and think yourself progressive either.

        Who said that? I don’t call myself “progressive”, haven’t for a long time. Current day progressives are not radical enough to understand the challenges coming up in the next 30 to 40 years, let alone how to meet them.

        I support Trump for a very few reasons that I have explained before. He’s not going to take the world to war against China and Russia for the sake of justifying more contracts for Lockheed Martin and Boeing. And he’s going to scrap/reneg on deals like the TPP, which will be excellent for NZ.

        • adam 10.5.1.1

          You have a lot of if’s there.

          You need to look at the republicans and what they are saying on the senate and house floor in relation to China and Russia. On par with or exceeding h.r.c, so I think you are wildly optimistic he will be somthing different. Or he will be able to do anything apart from fulfil contracts. His ideology, fascism needs ‘war economy ‘ to underpin it more than h.r.c, she has way more options.

          TPP won’t fly, because it won’t be backtracked on by h.r.c. She does not want to be a 1 term president. And she knows this issue will galvanise the next candidate against her – with a gift of millions of votes come the end of four years. She may be a hard core neoliberal, but she also wants to be a 2 term president.

          • Colonial Viper 10.5.1.1.1

            I don’t give a rats arse if some two bit one term Republican congressman from Louisiana says on the floor of the House that he wants to drop America’s stockpile of chemical and nuclear weapons on Moscow and Beijing.

            Because it’s only the Commander in Chief sitting in the Oval Office who can pull the trigger.

            And I’d far prefer Trump to be in there rather than the neocon warmonger and war profiteer Hillary Clinton.

            Having said that, sure, I understand that POTUS only has limited powers, is more often than not just a front person, and the Deep State is in charge.

            • adam 10.5.1.1.1.1

              You do understand that only the senate and the house of representatives can declare war?

              That aside, do you understand how fascist economics works? You actually get that fascism needs a war economy to work, or abject brutalisation of it’s own populus like the Franco regime did, for their economy to actually function?

              So you’re comments about war monger h.r.c I don’t disagree with. I just think you are kidding yourself if you think a real fascist like trump will be any better, and if history is any guide – He will be worse, because the economy won’t work unless he has war, or brutalising a section of his own society, or indeed does both.

              • Colonial Viper

                Turn up your political radar and clear the noise off your screen.

                Trumps not a “fascist” for fucks sake, he’s a liberal New York Big Apple RINO.

                Who doesn’t get lobbyist money from Lockheed Martin, Raytheon or Boeing, unlike that female neocon candidate who actually is a war economy profiteer.

                “He will be worse, because the economy won’t work unless he has war, or brutalising a section of his own society, or indeed does both.”

                You are full of it. Trump is tslking about cutting back military expenditure in order to rebuild America’s crumbling third world infrastructure. Thats why so many outside of the 10% richest counties are choosing him.

                Fuck I’m so over this. Trump easy victory Nov.

        • te reo putake 10.5.1.2

          I’m not sure that Trump (or Clinton) scrapping the TPP will be good for NZ, CV. Trump’s complaint is that its not favourable enough for the US. ie it should be less favourable for the rest of the signatories. His stance seems to be renegotiation so the USA can gouge even more or a return to tariffs such as those that have kept our dairy exports out of their domestic markets in the past.

          Either way, Trump is not batting for NZ.

          • Colonial Viper 10.5.1.2.1

            Renegotiating the TPP to include property restrictions is exactly what Andrew Little wants to do so Trump is providing an opening here.

            • Phil 10.5.1.2.1.1

              Renegotiating the TPP to include property restrictions is exactly what Andrew Little wants to do so Trump is providing an opening here.

              Without wanting to be graphic about it, this comment is akin picking through a pile of your own poo in order to find an undigested piece of corn and adding it back to your soup.

              • red-blooded

                Particularly since CV has always been so rabidly anti-Little and has repeatedly ridiculed the commitment to renegotiate the policy on foreigners buying existing housing.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Only the US has power to reopen negotiations on the TPP. Andrew Little has the power to whinge about it in the Dominion Post on page 3.

  11. Sabine 11

    Could people just imagine being so put of by this clown that they will not vote for him because he is just so fucking repulsive?

    And maybe just may Bernie Sanders should have run as an independent instead of on the democratic ticket?

    But yeah, i personally saw Clinton eat babies for breakfast without sauce. Like really. Shes the devil incarnate. Worse then the establishment that brought her forth, worse then all the men she learned her trade from. Worse then the men that started all the wars over the last 30 years.

    Baby eater, cutter of male bits and piece, witch, horrible wife, useless mother, demon who should burn on the stake.

    That should about sum it up?

    • Garibaldi 11.1

      Yes Sabine, that pretty well covers both Trump And Clinton!

    • Robertina 11.2

      lol. Whereas little man Trump only exploits babies for sarcastic laughs:
      http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-kicks-out-baby-rally-226566

      That controlling comment at the end: ”I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I’m speaking”.

    • Colonial Viper 11.3

      Baby eater, cutter of male bits and piece, witch, horrible wife, useless mother, demon who should burn on the stake.

      She turned Libya from being the richest, most socialist, secular country in Northern Africa into a Islamist hell whole war lord anarchy.

      • Psycho Milt 11.3.1

        She did? And here’s me thinking the uprising against Gaddafi and resulting civil war had something to do with it. Were all those Libyan fighters really US troops who’d removed their insignia, like Putin did in the Crimea?

        • Colonial Viper 11.3.1.1

          She did?

          “we came, we saw, he died” – Hillary Clinton

          • Psycho Milt 11.3.1.1.1

            That was pretty funny, but as evidence that Libya was plunged into chaos by Hillary Clinton rather than by an uprising against Gaddafi and resulting civil war, it’s not exactly compelling

        • One Two 11.3.1.2

          ‘Moderate Rebels’

          The same tactic repeats in multiple countries, over many years and still there are people who can’t keep up!

          Well Done

      • Sabine 11.3.2

        she did?

        No Obama? Not the senate? Not the congress?

        SHE DID?

        what is she? queen of the US of A?

        really she did it all by herself, and all the other geezers and geezerettes in Congress, Senate and the White House just let her?

  12. weka 13

    At the risk of sounding like CV, the risk of whatever will happen post-Clinton win (irrespective of the rhetoric from today), could be reduced if Clinton addressed class and poverty issues in a meaningful way. Trump is proto-fascist. Clinton is something else and its not pretty and comes with its own set of responsibilities.

    • GregJ 13.1

      The issue for Clinton on domestic policy though is whether the Dems gain control of the Senate (at the moment on polling they won’t). With a Republican congress (House & Senate) she’ll be reduced to using Executive Orders to make administrative change domestically and protecting Obama’s domestic legacy (Healthcare in the main) through the use of veto. That will only really leave her Foreign affairs. Effectively she’ll be a lame duck in her 1st term and that may well mean a one term presidency (actually if Trump wins I think he’ll only be a 1 term President as well).

      It gets worse for her as the mid-terms generally are bad for Democrats (Democrats vote in Presidential years but stay home in mid-terms). Also the Democrats will be defending a lot of Senate seats in the 2018 mid-terms (this year it is the Republicans that have more Senate seats in play – which means they may lose some but probably not enough to lose the Senate).

      I would note that these may well have been the same problems if Bernie had won the nomination. The best long term legacy of the Sanders campaign will be if they can get more left-leaning Democrats elected into the House & Senate and work to take back control. In that sense a Trump Presidency may work better for the Democrats in the long term (assuming he doesn’t destroy the world or the US in the interim).

  13. joe90 14

    The man really is an idiot.

    Mr. Khan who has never met me, has no right to stand in front of millions of people and claim I have never read the Constitution,

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/setting-the-record-straight

    • North 14.1

      At 10.47 this morning Sabine owned Colonial Viper whom at 10.48 this morning became Colonial Vapour.

      [You’re on the money, North, however pwned/owned and the like are not conducive to good debate. There are other ways to congratulate Sabine on what will probably turn out to be the official winner of Comment o’ the Day. TRP]

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        A question posed by Breitbart is whether Khizr Khan’s law firm, KM Khan Law Office, actually derives profit directly from Muslim immigration to the United States making him more than just an innocent conscientiousness objector to Trump’s policy?

        Breitbart suggests that Khan did, in fact, stand to profit from his viewpoints shared at the DNC and point to his website bio which lists “EB-5 Investments & Related Immigration Services” as a specific area of practice. Oddly enough, since these reports have surfaced the website of Mr. Khan’s law office has been taken down.

        Oh dear it seems like the pro structural status quo types are getting found out.

        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/khan

        By the way North, please avoid using flamewar language on The Standard.

  14. One Two 15

    The evil of two lessers..

    The lesser of two evils..

    Yeah, keep arguing amongst yourselves while the puppet masters continue with the agenda regardless of who is POTUS

    Surely you people can see whats going on?

  15. adam 16

    Does anyone remember this?

    Apart from being classic, the fix had been in by the Republicans – but a group stopped this and guess who those folks sitting with the F.B.I were? Don’t say anonymous. It was way more boring bunch of lawyers and others who actually like democracy and went on to electoral reform organisations.

    Look I think h.r.c. and the dnc rigged the democratic primaries, and quite frankly I’m happy about it. More power to the GREENS when rubbish like this happens.

    The bottom line folks is that the republicans and the democrats are going to try and rig this election.

    And if the exit polls are out by more than 2% – then I think either side have a right to be mad.

    Actually I think it is time the UN monitored the USA elections, it’s that bad.

  16. Lanthanide 17

    Latest Trump mis-steps:

    Donald Trump is refusing to support House Speaker Paul Ryan and longtime Sen. John McCain in their upcoming Republican primaries.

    Trump’s refusal to back the incumbents is a breach of political decorum that comes just two weeks after a convention designed to showcase party unity.

    http://nypost.com/2016/08/02/trump-declines-to-support-ryan-mccain-for-reelection/

    Donald Trump may have driven an even larger wedge between military veterans and his presidential campaign on Tuesday with an offhand comment in the midst of an otherwise touching moment with a military veteran.
    While telling the story of a lieutenant colonel who presented him with his Purple Heart medal as a vote of confidence, Trump quipped: ‘I always wanted to get the purple heart. This was much easier.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3720180/Trump-makes-light-military-sacrifice-veteran-gives-Purple-Heart-wanted-purple-heart-easier.html

    If he carries on like this, there’s a reasonable chance that the Republican party will dis-own him. Pence could quit.

    • joe90 17.1

      He’s still digging.

      When the interviewer brought up Trump’s position on border security, Trump said, “It’s a very big subject for me. And border security’s very big. And when you have radical Islamic terrorists probably all over the place, we’re allowing them to come in by the thousands and thousands. And I think that’s what bothered Mr. Khan more than anything else.

      https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-my-position-on-keeping-terrorists-out-is-what-bothered?

    • Colonial Viper 17.2

      Trump’s refusal to back the incumbents is a breach of political decorum that comes just two weeks after a convention designed to showcase party unity.

      McCain attacked Trump this week, and Ryan dodged giving Trump a full endorsement at the Convention, so what do you expect? Talk about breaching “political decorum” all you like as long as you mention that Ryan and McCain have done the same.

      • Lanthanide 17.2.1

        I’m not blaming anyone in particular, I’m just pointing out that the party isn’t united, and if Trump continues his antics then he may find the rest of the party becomes openly hostile to him – at the moment they’re tolerating him through gritted teeth.

        Also, reconciliation isn’t a one-way street.

        • Colonial Viper 17.2.1.1

          Other commentators have said that Trump is the end of the GOP as we know it and I am inclined to agree.

          • Phil 17.2.1.1.1

            For once, CV, you and I are in total agreement.

            The Republican party has spent the best part of a decade actively stoking the fires of discontent among a relatively uneducated and misinformed section of the American public. I don’t think they ever expected the strategy to explode so spectacularly in their faces.

            “Where to from here?” is a great question.

            I think the worst-case scenario, for the GOP establishment, is one where Trump narrowly loses to Clinton and the Republican activist base doubles-down on authoritarian rhetoric – I mean, this was an activist base wildly applauding the parts of Trump’s convention speech where he proposed big-government stimulus. That’s about as “un-GOP” as you can possibly get.

            Best case scenario, again for the GOP establishment, is Trump being hammered. I think that sends a clear message to the pro-Trump faction that they are not tolerable to the voting public.

            • Andre 17.2.1.1.1.1

              Trump getting hammered could open the door for Cruz 2020 to run hard with the idea that they lost because they weren’t conservative enough.

              • Phil

                That strategy would have some merit for a Cruz-like candidate.

                Trump is, ideologically, all over the map – there are plenty of examples of him advocating positions which are alien to ‘traditional conservatives’.

        • Phil 17.2.1.2

          I’m just pointing out that the party isn’t united, and if Trump continues his antics then he may find the rest of the party becomes openly hostile to him

          Up until now, “down ballot” Republican Senators and Representatives have been in the middle of primary races to get on the ballot for the November elections. Now that those races are coming to an end and candidates are settled, we’re much more likely to see Republicans break from Trump.

    • joe90 17.3

      Trump appears to want another financial disaster too.

      Trump on economy stats"If they get real bad, I hope it happens fast…They'll all blame me"https://t.co/E7JsYrYTCe pic.twitter.com/bfUdnKc45P— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) August 2, 2016

      "You'll end up winning and your first day, the economy crashes because of some incompetent people before me. Ay yay yay!"-Trump.— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) August 2, 2016

    • joe90 17.4

      Wheels are falling off….

      longtime ally of Paul Manafort, Trump's campaign manager: "Manafort not challenging Trump anymore. Mailing it in. Staff suicidal."— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) August 3, 2016

      A Trump campaign source, in reax to this, tells me "it's all true" and "way worse than people realize." https://t.co/nvioNcjMCJ— Ali Vitali (@alivitali) August 3, 2016

      • One Two 17.4.1

        Trawling the net to satiate your Trump fetish still got the better of you, eh Joe

        Chin up

      • Colonial Viper 17.4.2

        I guess we’ll see Trump’s campaign disintegrate in the next month then.

        • Lanthanide 17.4.2.1

          It’s not like the RNC was powerful display by a party that’s ready to sweep into a dominating position.

          The DNC obviously had issues, but it was light years ahead in professionalism.

          • Colonial Viper 17.4.2.1.1

            Check out Republican vs Democratic donations this year. The RNC has been receiving fuck all money. Even the Koch Bros are considering donating to Clinton instead of Trump.

            • marty mars 17.4.2.1.1.1

              It isn’t stopping him so why worry.

              • Colonial Viper

                Big money organisations queuing up behind Clinton

                • So, he’s a billionaire isnt he and so are his mates. He’s sweet.

                  • Lanthanide

                    He initially said he wouldn’t take any donations or use anyone elses money. That stance lasted about 2 months, when he started asking people for donations.

                    He’s made personal loans to his campaign – in other words, he expects to be paid back, by the donations from his gullible suckers voters.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Look at the charts, peeps. Clinton is pulling in corporate money 20 to 1. Why? Because Clinton has proven through the billion dollar Clinton Foundation that donating to the Clintons pays off.

                      Amusing to see you guys back the big money candidate of the arms dealers and investment banksters.

                    • Build a wall cv and get over it. This whole post is about dickhead trump and what a denierdim he is your hero lol

  17. Obama could be in for a 3rd term ?

  18. Liberal Realist 19

    Everything coming out of the US MSM is now in echo chamber ‘groupthink’ territory.

    Trump has proven time and time again that he’ll say anything or insult anyone to shift or dominate the news cycle. This to me seems like the new normal, from the GOP right anyway.

    As for the Dems, well as far as I’m concerned the rhetoric from the Dem establishment is such that it should keep us all awake at night. The demonisation of Putin and the linking of Trump’s stupid comments pertaining to the DNC hack are just a footnote on a long list of blatant outright lies. These lies are setting the West on a very dangerous path toward confrontation with Russia.

    I offer the below clip of an interview with American scholar of Russian studies Stephen Cohen, on CNN (otherwise known as ‘Clinton News Network’). In less than 5 minutes Cohen exposes CNN & the rest of the US MSM as Clinton cheerleaders through and through, beating the drum for war. Cohen acknowledges where this narrative is being driven from (the Clinton Campaign) and why it has to stop.

    Cohen says it how it is and by dam the paradigm is dangerous, for all of us. We’re almost at 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis territory now…

    Watch it for yourself…

  19. One Two 20

    http://www.rogerstone.com/

    ‘The Clintons War on Women’

    Did they sue?

  20. joe90 21

    Voices from Trump rallies. (nsfw language)

    “Kill her.”

    “Trump that bitch!”

    “Build a wall — kill them all.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/us/politics/donald-trump-supporters.html

    • joe90 21.1

      ♪ USA … ♫….

      Full quote from the opening prayer at today's Trump rally in Daytona beach, FL pic.twitter.com/jpiCPr49ys— David Martosko (@dmartosko) August 3, 2016

      We know that this party is evil. We pray that all the Democrats and all the libertarians and all the socialist progressives will have an awakening experience.

      Prayer before Trump rally calls media "den of vipers," crooked", "biased", "the stench of evil."(Dude, we're like *right here*)— Steven Lemongello (@SteveLemongello) August 3, 2016

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    1 day ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    1 day ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    2 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    3 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    3 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    4 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    5 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    5 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago