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The Auckland property market

Written By: - Date published: 7:29 am, November 26th, 2012 - 194 comments
Categories: housing, labour, national - Tags: , ,

The Auckland property market is back through the roof again. It seemed to be the main focus of The Herald this weekend. An anonymous editorial offered an overview and advice:

Home buyers aim too high

Our addiction to real estate has not been cured by experience, as the Government hoped. House prices, as we report today, have now climbed back to their 2007 peak, banks are again offering loans of up to 95 per cent of a purchase price and investors are back in the market, raising mortgages on the house they live in to buy another. …

The predicament for first-home seekers is now worse than it was during the boom. Prices are as high as they were then but far fewer homes are available. Nearly all are being offered by auction, as happens when a market is volatile, and new investors can usually outbid a young couple looking for a home of their own at a price that will keep a mortgage within their means. …

Realistic young home-seekers should be able to find an affordable house in outer suburbs. Like previous generations, they can improve the house and land, plant trees, form residents associations to press for amenities and see that they are well maintained. Before long, they would find their home, their school and their community had become a desirable place to live. It’s the way prosperity starts.

Kirsty Wynn wrote:

Sellers score massive gains

It’s almost as good as claiming Lotto’s first-division prize – the winners in Auckland’s frantic housing market are selling their properties for hundreds of thousands of dollars above their official valuations.

Statistics show that in the past six months there have been at least nine properties that sold for $500,000 or more above their CV, and one went for a whopping $1.2 million above valuation. … The housing boom is also making it difficult for independent valuers to put an accurate price on properties.

As ever, Bernard Hickey’s piece is required reading:

Sell out country to cash in on tax perks

I sold my house in Auckland this week to take advantage of the “heat” in the market. I’m looking to pay off my mortgage and buy a house, mortgage-free, in Wellington. …

Let’s say I have $600,000 of equity. Brokers tell me that banks are keen to lend and will allow me to buy a couple of rental properties with 5 per cent deposits. I could then buy another five with 10 per cent deposits, and the rest of the money could be used as 20 per cent deposits to buy three more. That would allow me to buy 10 investment properties at $500,000 each for a total of $5 million, including borrowings of $4.4 million. That’s an average loan-to-value ratio of 88 per cent. …

Currently there seems to be just one direction for house prices in Auckland. The Real Estate Institute’s stratified measure of Auckland house prices showed they rose 14.4 per cent in the year to October. If that happened again next year I would make implied capital gains of $700,000 on my 10 properties, adding to the $84,400 of cash profits from the rentals. That implies a return of 130 per cent on the $600,000 of equity I leveraged into rental property. …

All the incentives are telling me to buy rental property in an Auckland market with a chronic shortage of houses. They say I should borrow $4.4 million from foreign-funded banks to boost the value of existing property. They say I should increase our foreign debt to enrich myself while not employing any other New Zealanders, and not paying tax on it. So what am I waiting for? I’ve almost convinced myself I should do it.

There are many issues here that need to be addressed. Some of them are about the incentives in the economy – that’s where Labour’s capital gains tax would come in. But the most important factor is, of course, the simple and practical issue of the lack of houses available to be purchased.

Labour’s solution is to build more houses.

National’s “solution” is to complain about Labour’s solution.

194 comments on “The Auckland property market”

  1. Bill 1

    Nicely themed graphics from Labour.

    Still don’t like the blind spot with regards rental property in their housing plan. That’s where the people in real need are looking.

    I’d far rather they had rolled out a policy that would have encouraged the formation and development of housing collectives/co-operatives. But hey.

    • weka 1.1

      I’d far rather they had rolled out a policy that would have encouraged the formation and development of housing collectives/co-operatives.
       

      Which is why we need the Greens and Mana with strong representation in the next govt.
       
      Plus supporting owner/builder projects. In the 1960s my parents built their own home with the help of a professional builder. There are lots of barriers to doing that now (mostly unnecessary and only there because of the leaky building ripoff merchants and over-reaction to that crisis). There are increasing numbers of people wanting to build small, affordable homes (for a lot less than $300,000).

      • Bill 1.1.1

        Yup. Innovative (and conventional) self-build opportunities, allied with an overhaul of building regs with regards permissable materials, and a breaking up of the building cartels. Oh, and the introduction of lifetime leases for rental properties.

        All of that and more could have been a part of the policy. But no. Let’s just keep on having ‘aspirational’ people chasing jobs to then struggle to buy houses back off of the banks. That should do it.

        Until however many years down the track when it’s all, once again (apologies) ‘bubble, bubble….trouble’

    • karol 1.2

      Still don’t like the blind spot with regards rental property in their housing plan. That’s where the people in real need are looking.

      Indeed, Bill. I’m living in less than adequate rental accommodation in the outer burbs of Auckland, and on the lookout for something a little better at a reasonable cost.  It’s a dispiriting endeavour.  My response to Kiwibuild is lukewarm.

      And it’s not just about building more houses/flats, it’s how they are situated in relation to the local community, facilities and transport.

      This transport blog piece on the 5 minute pint test is a very good illustration – how far do people have to travel from their home to buy a pint of milk?

  2. infused 2

    Many holes in those arguments. As David said:

    “Statistics show that in the past six months there have been at least nine properties that sold for $500,000 or more above their CV, and one went for a whopping $1.2 million above valuation. … The housing boom is also making it difficult for independent valuers to put an accurate price on properties.”

    Bullshit statistics. How much did they invest in these properties? When were the CVs updated?

  3. vto 3

    Look, end-times are always volatile. I see nothing to support this price lift and plenty of the legs underneath wobbly as all hell.

    Good luck to all investors. I think you are going to need it.

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1

      So your solution, vto, is to leave it to the market to fix?

      • vto 3.1.1

        My opinion says that this is a mulit-headed beast and each aspect needs work. No time right now to go into detail but the problem is exacerbated by our fractional reserve banking system and the financial system, cartels in the building supplies sector (e.g. cement), Council regulations, Council charges lumping all future costs onto the first time buyer, failure of other investment sectors such as the NZX, finance companies, managed funds, lack of land supply, GST, on it goes.

        A new house is made up of many components and each one needs work. It is not a single issue problem.

        Labour’s KiwiBuild is a step in the right direction. I applaud Labour for moving down this track. What is National’s track? Well, have a look at Chch and the “leave it to the market” approach – it is terrifying if forced out to the wolves down here at the moment.

        Market approaches work well for silly things like televisions, cars and biscuits. But housing is a social issue whereby we all need to ensure our neighbours are well housed .The television doesn’t matter. Get the diff?

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1.1.1

          Yet, half an hour ago, you claimed that housing prices were going to collapse. If that’s the case, why do we need Labour’s plan?

          • vto 3.1.1.1.1

            two different issues, although often confused by people.

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3.1.1.1.1.1

              When the apocalypse comes (because of the fractional reserve banking system and the financial system), will Auckland house prices be low or high?

              • vto

                Silly.

                Not low or high. You mean lower or higher. Which bears no relationship to affordability.

                I can expand if you wish but I suspect you know that market movement in property values is an entirely different beast from affordable housing for those least able to so afford.

                Do you want to continue with this silly point of yours?

  4. Bill 4

    Question. What does the claim that 2/3rds of houses built in the 1960’s were not affordable actually mean? What would the background stats/ calculations of that claim be…Anybody?

    • r0b 4.1

      As I understand it the claim of “affordable” is based on the ratio of the house price to the average wage. No doubt Labour have done their numbers on this, but if they are publicly available I don’t know where.

      • Bill 4.1.1

        Well, I was assuming some straight forward comparison like that. But what about the different lending criteria back then as opposed to now? Or the fact that a single wage serviced a mortgage as opposed to today where it requires a household income. And so on and so on.

      • Lanthanide 4.1.2

        It’s something like 3 times or less the median wage is affordable, 3-4 has a specific term and anything over 4 is ‘unaffordable’.

      • pete 4.1.3

        Why do they always compare against one wage?

        Women work. There are often two wages per household. So houses are affordable, just not by one breadwinner.

        • felix 4.1.3.1

          Which is just another way of saying they’re a lot less affordable than they used to be.

          No surprises there though. The rewards of the massive productivity increases of the last few decades have been distributed in profits to the owners of capital while real wages have gone backwards.

          • pete 4.1.3.1.1

            Which is just another way of saying they’re a lot less affordable than they used to be.

            Society isn’t what it used to be. Both parents seldom had full-time paid employment. That variable means households have more income. People are also putting off having children until later. Supply hasn’t kept up, due to land use restriction.

            Therefore, prices must rise.

            • Bill 4.1.3.1.1.1

              Pete. Maybe households have more income. But households also have a far higher percentage of fixed expenditures. And that results in less disposable income compared to the late 60’s/ early 70’s after costs are adjusted for inflation. And then there’s the fact that the ability to earn an income is bound around by more precariousity these days.

              • pete

                Indeed.

                I’m inclined to agree with the left on the employment front. We have kids who have done everything right – they got the grades, they finished University. Then nothing.

                I’m not sure what the answer is. How about instead of unemployment benefit, we pay companies to have apprenticeship schemes for all sorts of roles, not just trades. i.e. computer programmers, administrators, etc? Combine it with bonding.

                • McFlock

                  Why bother with bonding?
                     
                  It’s just another layer of expense, with a dose of “fuck you, I [the state] will take my pound of flesh”. A percentage of newly-qualified trades staff might piss off never to return, but if NZ is a relatively nice place on the planet most will stay. And of those who leave, some will return with wide experience and assets they built up overseas.
                       
                  I actually have the same issue with taxpayer-funded tertiary education: at the moment people pay more than their portion of the public:private good ratio of their qualification, and the govt will chase them to the ends of the earth to get it. $100k debt is a great incentive to fuck off to where the money is. Make it fully funded, and most people will stay, and the consumer economy will have slightly more life breathed into it as income goes on consumption not loan repayments.
                          
                  But then we still need a 100-year plan that doesn’t rely on hypothetical technology to magic our arse out of the AGW+fuel depletion fire.
                   

                • Hi pete,

                  Here’s a link that I think Bill once put me on to. It’s a lecture by Elizabeth Warren – a professor of contract law at Harvard (with a special interest in individual bankruptcy) and, since the recent election, a senator for Massachusetts, I think.

                  She notes the (lack of) impact of double incomes on improving the financial situation of households in the US. NZ is a different kettle of fish, of course, but the role of housing affordability and mortgage debt is relevant.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.3.2

          Women work. There are often two wages per household. So houses are affordable, just not by one breadwinner.

          Single people, you’re fucked, rent for the rest of your life.

          • pete 4.1.3.2.1

            We can’t wind the clock back. We must deal with the circumstances we have today. Women work.

            If you’re single, you are in competition with working couples. You either have to save longer, buy a smaller house, live in an apartment, or move towns.

            • Lanthanide 4.1.3.2.1.1

              “We can’t wind the clock back. We must deal with the circumstances we have today. Women work.”

              No one is suggesting we “wind the clock back”. What we are suggesting is that if the growth and profit in the country was more fairly distributed, rather than going to the top 5% and capital owners, then there would be less of a need for both adults in a household to work because wages on average would be higher.

            • Mike 4.1.3.2.1.2

              I agree with the second part of your comment. The sad thing about it is that the word “competition” is used in conjunction with buying a house. This is a reflection on our entire monetary and economic system, especially over the last 30 years. We have been brainwashed into believing that competition amongst ourselves is somehow a good or beneficial thing and the system we operate under forces people to compete rather than cooperate.

            • Mike 4.1.3.2.1.3

              Pretty much all of the property investor and real estate agents blogs and websites are totally against the idea. Therefore logic would dictate that on the face of it, it might just work and might just be a good thing?

          • King Kong 4.1.3.2.2

            “Single people, you’re fucked, rent for the rest of your life.”

            Or you could try logging out of the Standard, opening up your bedroom curtains and going out and meeting some girls.

            A word of advice, don’t bring up politics. You don’t want to scare them off by showing how rediculous you are.

  5. Chalupa Batman 5

    I agree that National needs to up its game over housing (up its game or get into the game in the first place?) but I don’t think Labours plan is feasible

    Forgetting the maths thats already been done I just don’t see how its possible to build that many houses in that short a time period

    So Labour may well have good intentions but it’ll probably come back and bite them in the arse

    • r0b 5.1

      Ten years isn’t a “short” time period. Industry reckons it can be done, but if we do fall short of the 100,000 target – just keep the programme rolling…

      • Chalupa Batman 5.1.1

        They would say that to get the work (as I’m sure you know) but 10 000 houses a year is 27 houses a day (not taking into account weekends and public holidays)

        There would need to be a huge push to apprenticeships, polytechnic training and immigration to get even close

        • r0b 5.1.1.1

          There would need to be a huge push to apprenticeships, polytechnic training

          Yes. Is that a bad thing?

          and immigration to get even close

          Perhaps all we’d need to do is stop the exodus to Australia. Perhaps KiwiBuild would give folk more reasons to stay.

          Honestly – the fact that KiwiBuild is big and ambitious is not a reason not to attempt it. Have we as a country completely lost our fire?

          • Chalupa Batman 5.1.1.1.1

            Yes. Is that a bad thing?
            – No

            Perhaps all we’d need to do is stop the exodus to Australia.
            -I don’t think theres that many tradesman and builders going

            Perhaps KiwiBuild would give folk more reasons to stay.
            -Labour will need to spell out the specifics and costings to convince those to stay

            Honestly – the fact that KiwiBuild is big and ambitious is not a reason not to attempt it.
            -I agree

            Have we as a country completely lost our fire?
            -No but we are starting to want more from our politicians than grand promises

            If (and its a big if) Labour can get some where close to what they’re thinking about this without it turning into a way for people to make a quick buck subsidized by everyone else then good on them and they’ll deserve to be in power (pref with the greens in minor role and Winston out of the loop completely)

            • Lanthanide 5.1.1.1.1.1

              “Perhaps all we’d need to do is stop the exodus to Australia.
              -I don’t think theres that many tradesman and builders going”

              Everything I’ve heard about getting labour into Christchurch over the last couple of years has said that these tradesman have been moving to Australia, partly due to the flooding up north so there was huge demand for rebuild there, whereas CHCH is still puttering along and hasn’t really started properly.

              Now there are stories about casual workers in the construction sector in Australia losing their jobs and how a lot of them are NZers with no security of employment.

              “Perhaps KiwiBuild would give folk more reasons to stay.
              -Labour will need to spell out the specifics and costings to convince those to stay”

              Note that Labour isn’t in power yet. Anyone who chooses to move over to Australia in the next year or to will be doing so because of the current situation on the ground and National’s complete inability to do anything about it.

              Should Labour win the next election, I’m sure the details on this plan will be forthcoming and people will make short-medium term decisions then about whether to leave the country.

              • vto

                “-I don’t think theres that many tradesman and builders going”… to Australia

                Anecdote-wise stories and actions around the traps in Chch is that the rebuild is stopping very few from leaving. So far.

              • Chalupa Batman

                Should Labour win the next election, I’m sure the details on this plan will be forthcoming and people will make short-medium term decisions then about whether to leave the country.

                – I think people are getting pissed at parties that make vague policies before an election and fail to keep them after, this could cause a backlash

                • felix

                  I agree. And the backlash will put Labour and the Greens in govt.

                  • Chalupa Batman

                    Probably will and if Labour and the greens fail to live up to theirs they’ll be out…

                    And so it goes

                    • felix

                      Nah, the last govt lived up to and exceeded most of their promises, vague or otherwise. They were voted out because this lot convinced the dickhead belt of two things:

                      1. You can take more pay, pay less tax AND keep all your social services

                      2. The lesbians are coming for your lightbulbs.

              • Mike

                I think part of the problem in Christchurch is the fact that it is Christchurch. I know of at least 3 builders who decided against going to where the work is in Christchurch simply because they didn’t want to move their families to a place recently struck by a deadly earthquake.

            • r0b 5.1.1.1.1.2

              I don’t think theres that many tradesman and builders going

              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10837583

              The face of the exodus to Australia is changing as skilled trade workers in their 20s replace young, well-educated Kiwis flocking to Australia.

              Ten years ago, New Zealand was hit by a brain drain; now young tradespeople are chasing jobs and larger pay packets in Australia in a migration dubbed the “trades drain”.

            • felix 5.1.1.1.1.3

              “If (and its a big if) Labour can get some where close to what they’re thinking about this without it turning into a way for people to make a quick buck subsidized by everyone else then good on them and they’ll deserve to be in power (pref with the greens in minor role and Winston out of the loop completely)”

              Actually, my anti-democratic chum, they’ll “deserve to be in power” with the Greens if enough people vote it so.

              • Chalupa Batman

                Semantics…

                • felix

                  Democracy.

                  ps “semantics” is the field of study of meaning, in this case the meaning of words. If it’s your intention to write comments on this blog without consideration for what the words mean, then please say so now so I can make a mental note to disregard them.

                  • Chalupa Batman

                    Semantics:

                    The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form:

                    As an example I said “they’ll deserve to be in power” you replied with “if enough people vote it so.”

                    So we’re basically agreed they’ll deserve to be in power so lets not quibble over…semantics

                    • felix

                      No, you said they’d deserve to be in power “if and only if” they blah blah blah.

                      In fact they don’t have to meet any of your arbitrary conditions in order to deserve to govern.

        • Lanthanide 5.1.1.2

          You know that 27 houses a day doesn’t mean they build the entire house in a single day, right?

          • Rob 5.1.1.2.1

            What it does mean is that you need to have built a repeating supply chain that will be handling over 2,000 build projects at any particular time (based on an 8 week build cycle which is very ambitious). Even in boom times for residential building (2007, when there were annualised consents for just over 30,000 homes) the largest home builders (ie Fletchers -Akl based, GJ Gardener – national, Jennian – national etc) were topping out at 600 odd homes per year.

            So any infrastructure capable of finishing and delivering 27 fvit for purpose dwellings per day is a very big co-ordinated engine in anyones terms and frankly beyond the skill and wit of this labour representation.

            • r0b 5.1.1.2.1.1

              based on an 8 week build cycle which is very ambitious

              A lot of these houses are going to be built to a standard design. Economies of scale (mass produced pre-fab kits) should see a quicker build than that.

              • Chalupa Batman

                I hope they don’t do apartment blocks like the housing estates in England…

                • mike e

                  lupi batshit check out Melbourne inner city redevelopment.
                  Cynicism is not policy or a solution doing nothing ,but that is nationals policy!

              • Rob

                You know , the biggest hold up in building is not due to unstandardised design. It is due to the logistics and supply infrastructure supplying these projects. Specific designed Pre frame goes up in 2 days once it is delivered, which is a lot quicker than bespoke framing on site. But to build in busy communities where large trucks have to negotiate mid day traffic (espcially in Auckland where a lot of this plan is going to happen) to deliver specific material loads creates the largest aspect of the waste and down time.

                The overall point being is that there is a lot of opportunity for off site manufacturing of modular components and it does make things more acurate and reduces the site influence for mistakes, however the wasted time element is created in the delivery and off load at site. This then prompts actions like delivery outside of peak traffic times , requiring people on site outside of normal working hours etc.

                • felix

                  “This then prompts actions like delivery outside of peak traffic times , requiring people on site outside of normal working hours etc.”

                  Jeez, I’m glad you got there in the end. Keep thinking mate, you’re on the right track.

                  • Rob

                    Really, well that will require a very flexible labour crew and a very understanding neighbourhood. Both of which have been read as major issues on this site.

                    • felix

                      Yes Rob, it will.

                      It will require a huge works program, on a scale which can only be achieved by utilising the power and resources of the state.

                      Keep going mate…

      • Fortran 5.1.2

        r0b

        That’s 196 houses completed a week.

  6. Pete 6

    There’s also the virtual monopoly Fletchers has on building materials in NZ. It costs around $1800 per square metre to build a house in NZ, while it costs AUD$1060 per square metre to build in Australia.

    • vto 6.1

      ^^ this

      this is the elephant in the room.

      the forests, the mills, the outlets, the builders, the lot all the way through from pine seedling to finished product – all dominated by fletchers.

      who has the balls to stand up to it? Key? ha ha ha ha ha – the man is a wuss, not to mention being in the back pocket of biz

  7. “Let’s say I have $600,000 of equity. Brokers tell me that banks are keen to lend and will allow me to buy a couple of rental properties with 5 per cent deposits. I could then buy another five with 10 per cent deposits, and the rest of the money could be used as 20 per cent deposits to buy three more. That would allow me to buy 10 investment properties at $500,000 each for a total of $5 million, including borrowings of $4.4 million. That’s an average loan-to-value ratio of 88 per cent. …”

    I am sick to death of Hickey. The guy is a flake.
    No Bank will allow an LvR of 88% on rental properties.
    Good luck buying a couple with 5% deposits as well.
    Despite him making those numbers up. If by some impossible confluence of circumstances he actually found a bank that would operate outside its mandated lending policies he would go broke in weeks because the rental yield on those properties would be massively in the negative half of the spreadsheet.
    The simple fact is that buying a house in Auckland today at the prices being achieved is a very bad prospect for anybody wanting to become a landlord. Houses are too expensive currently and the ,market will not sustain an increase in rent returns that would make them an affordable and beneficial investment for rental returns.
    If rents cannot increase then sale prices must come down. Once the Chinese investors realise this or find somewhere less flaky to put their cash this is exactly what will happen.

    • Lanthanide 7.1

      So who should we trust, a person who runs a widely-regarded website on NZ economics and the banking sector, or you, someone with no reputation on a blog, who says that he is wrong?

      • Mathematics is saying he is wrong.
        And I know a damn site more about the internal rules and processes that a bank manager must follow than Bernard Hickey.
        No bank is going to let you buy rentals with a 5% deposit in the current Auckland property market.
        The rental returns are yielding too low for current prices to be sustainable.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1

          The rental returns are yielding too low for current prices to be sustainable.

          Uh, Auckland house pricing is not based on rental returns. Its based on a debt fueled speculative bubble.

          And I know a damn site more about the internal rules and processes that a bank manager must follow than Bernard Hickey.

          If you read the quote carefully, Hickey mentions that the information has been given to him by mortgage brokers.

          • pete 7.1.1.1.1

            Uh, Auckland house pricing is not based on rental returns. Its based on a debt fueled speculative bubble.

            Bank loans are if you’re leveraging to the hilt as a landlord. Banks aren’t stupid.

            Rather than shoot from the hip, how about considering that some people have been there, done that, and therefore may know more about it than you do.

            Have you even owned a house? Applied for a mortgage?

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1.1

              What do you have to sell me? I’m always interested in properties at least 5% under GV.

            • Barnsley Bill 7.1.1.1.1.2

              Typical, rather than go straight to the insult playbook just visit any bank website and have a look at the LvR they will allow on rental properties.
              Yes I (have and) do own houses. I have for many years worked hard to ensure I will not have to eat cat food in my old age.
              The message I am trying to get across is that the Auckland market is dangerously over cooked.
              If you look back to when GFC began;
              The banks stopped lending.
              This caused a bulge in the snake where first time buyers were locked out of the market for almost two years. This put pressure on the rental market which saw rents go through the roof in Auckland as new renters came in but not many moved out by buying their first home. The banks have started lending again which has seen a surge of people trying to get on the ladder and the recent price rises have gone too far. The market does not behave with precision. There is always an over reaction (or under reaction).

              • Colonial Viper

                The message I am trying to get across is that the Auckland market is dangerously over cooked.

                Indeed. As mentioned on earlier threads, good luck to NZ if it continues concentrating 30% of its population in only 0.3% of the space.

                • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                  Let’s round them up and send them to the countryside for re-education. Year zero, we’ll call it.

          • pete 7.1.1.1.2

            If you read the quote carefully, Hickey mentions that the information has been given to him by mortgage brokers.

            It depends on your circumstances. You’d need all your ducks lined up to get that kind of leverage against rentals. You’d also need perfect headwinds i.e. no rental gaps, good tenants, and a surging market.

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.2.1

              The market is surging.

              • pete

                Today, it is.

                Hence the risk when it comes to investing. You don’t know quite what it will do tomorrow, as many investors found out in 2007.

            • Lanthanide 7.1.1.1.2.2

              Ok, so Hickey is painting an extreme picture.

              Let’s halve what he’s saying. So now he buys 5 houses with $600k instead of 10.

              Now, is that problematic? IMO yes.

              Quibbling about the extent of his illustration rather misses the forest for the trees.

      • pete 7.1.2

        I think Hickey is being misleading by not stating the risks.

        That kind of leverage is a) hard to get loans for and b) carries considerable downside risk.

        When the market comes off a few points, the bank will want to refinance, and if you can’t meet it, they’ll sell you out. It *could* come off, but like any investing, it’s easiest done in the rear-view mirror.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.1

          Highly leveraged positions do have massive downside risks. They also have massive upside risks.

          So the only question which is important – Does greed for gains or fear of collapse rule the Auckland housing investment market at the moment?

          • pete 7.1.2.1.1

            The property market is complex. We can’t put those prices down to leveraged speculators. There are a number of inputs and conditions that affect house prices.

            You may notice that Wellington house prices are fairly static. Same goes for the rest of the country outside Auckland/Christchurch. Do leveraged speculators only exist in Auckland? Or perhaps some other conditions influence price?

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.1.1.1

              Dunno.

              • pete

                Fundamentals.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Political economic fundamentals, not market fundamentals.

                • McFlock

                  “fundamentals” is a non-answer unless you can clearly demonstrate what exactly you mean and demonstrate that they are the likely cause of such significant market differences – you might as well say “prayer” or “widgets”.
                       
                  Given that population, land availability and so on are either static or relatively slow changers (barring calamity), few “fundamentals” remain to explain significant market fluctuations.

                  • pete

                    Fundamentals such as (in Wellington) lower levels of immigration, flat public service numbers, meaning less demand. Existing supply meets demand. Therefore, prices are reasonably static.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Leaving housing to the market = dumb unworkable idea

                      Firing public servants and high unemployment = cheaper housing?

                      Good National free market Plan.

                    • McFlock

                      Sources are wonderful things.
                         
                      StatsNZ infoshare HLFS  by regional council shows Auckland has a higher unemployment rate than Wellington Dec 2011, even though Auckland projected population is growing faster (although given that the census is well out of date, take that with a grain of salt).
                                
                      Basically, though, the fact that you can point to some “fundamentals” that might lean in a direction that might drive an increase demand for housing alongside the speculation that we know exists (it’s the basic mechanism of capitalism) doesn’t mean squat. Populations, and therefore demand, do not change as quickly as house prices fluctuate.  Interest rates and bank competition to lend as much as possible to as many people as possible do tend to bounce around a bit, though.

                    • pete

                      So…you’re saying speculators simply ignore Wellington – and the rest of NZ – bar Auckland – because……speculators like nice weather?

                      Or do you think the demand/supply situation in Auckland is out of whack?

                    • McFlock

                      I think the perception is that the Auckland supply/demand situation is out of whack.
                             
                      I’m not sure that the actual population:dwellings:medianIncome ratio has changed all that much. I’m not overly familiar with the nuances of the Auckland market, so am merely going on the available macro data. If you have better data, feel free to share.

      • felix 7.1.3

        Oh come now Lanth, I hardly think it’s fair to say Barnsley Bill has no reputation…

    • seeker 7.2

      @BarnsleyB 9.04am

      What about the shoeboxes that pass for apartments in Auckland? Those tiny shoeboxes where one can stack students? Houses may be too expensive but shoeboxes don’t seem to be for investors, and the rent people ( because students are people too) are expected to pay for them is extortionate.

    • xtasy 7.3

      “Barnsley Bill”:
      If you are sick of Hickey, then organise the long overdue “Kiwi revolt” against this government, allowing massive property speculation, the sale of sections on average about 300 k in Auckland now, and of course housing en masse to overseas buyer, who in auction rooms represent about 80 per cent of bidders.

      Hickey is just telling us how it is under present conditions! Stick your head in the sand, like an ostrich, it is the most popular past time in NZ anyway, if it has not caught on with you yet.

      The problem with this country is, it is all too many self serving “bullshit” people running and controlling it, and damned too many idiots falling for what they get served up in shit media every day.

      Shearer and Labour have today surely made themselves the “idiot on the block”, where their MPs did visit homes in South Auckland, talking to home owners, and not knowing that sections go for around 300 k to build on.

      As I suspected, after the initial nice looking figures, and a hard trying speech by Shearer, it all has looked to nice to be realistic.

      You are all being “had” for a laugh here!

      They have not done the figures, as the property market, like almost anything re investing and economic in NZ is totally OUT OF CONTROL!

      Soon 2 thirds of average Kiwis will have NO chance to ever own their own home, unless it is a shoe-box size little unit or apartment in a block. And that seems to be what Shearer and his ignorant, incompetent lot have on mind for people to “invest” in, while they offer NADA for state housing construction projects, that would really make a difference.

      To make it all work, cheap land is needed for a start, or the land must be used intensely, to build up, not on quarter acre style lots in greenlands. Or do the daring task, and “nationalise” certain tracts of land, companies and so forth, at the same time stopping overseas buying!

  8. National’s “solution” is to complain about Labour’s solution.

    With his masterful understanding of NZ history, naturally Mr Key is well aware that it’s just impossible for the state to engage in a large-scale house construction programme…

    • Ed 9.1

      Didn’t Key live in a State housing area when he was a child?

      http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/we-call-it-home/the-state-steps-in-and-out

      Auckland is now at the stage where existing houses are being replaced by new developments, and to maximise profits these are generally expensive new homes. To repeat the state housing suburbs of years ago would just extend the sprawl; it may be necessary for the NZ government to either build itself higher density housing – or fund local government to do that.

      From history we learn that the National Party will not move in that direction while they remain in government, but it is certainly possible for the state to engage in a large-scale house construction programme . . .

      • xtasy 9.1.1

        Ed: “it may be necessary for the NZ government to either build itself higher density housing – or fund local government to do that. From history we learn that the National Party will not move in that direction while they remain in government”

        That is exactly what they are planning to do with Housing NZ project and also outsourced “social housing” that will be operated by NGOs and the likes (Sallies or whomsoever).

        There are projects under way, where Housing NZ is selling lots of existing, old stocks in Auckland (e.g. Three Kings, Sandringham, etc.), where some goes to investors, and where some will be rebuilt, in the form of 3-level blocks. Those blocks will replace the old style spread out housing that Housing NZ used to rely on.

        The poor will be stacked on top in little boxes, it is happening, and the rest of the market will be left for the private investors, whether from overseas, from NZ, whether desperate 1st home buyers or else. Sprawl will be the result for them, if Nats are allowed to continue, expanding Auckland to Wellsford, Warkworth, Drury, Waiuku and so on.

  9. Matthew 10

    I was disturbed this morning on Breakfast when Peter Williams was putting Labour’s scheme down as unworkable as it meant they had to build ‘a house an hour for ten years which is obviously not possible’. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to watch Shearer’s interview about just that issue later in the show but i hope he rammed it right up that smug gits ass.

  10. AAMC 11

    Why are house prices so high..

    “An average three-bed house cost £2,000 in 1952. In 2012 it costs £162,000. That’s an inflation of 8,000%….
    the average cost of a loaf of bread in 1952 was 6p. In 2012 it is £1.25. That’s an inflation of 1,983%. Likewise an average pint of milk was 4p in 1952 and is now 49p. That’s an inflation of 1,125%…. This increased money supply in the housing market creates an increase in demand for houses. The supply of houses, as we already know, can’t match this rising demand so prices are pushed up…. Between 1995 and 2007 the UK population increased by 5%, the housing stock increased by 10% and house prices increased by 350%, meanwhile mortgage lending by banks increased by 630%.”

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/08/28/why-exactly-are-homes-so-expensive/

    Although I support the sentiment of the housing policy and appreciate it will give an opportunity to 100,00 middle class workers, will put builders to work, creating some extra demand in the economy, it fails to tackle the real issue behind our house prices.

    What worries me is that this policy frames the public’s understanding of affordability. The framing is around supply, which is not the only game in town. By framing it this way and continuing to allow the public to be ill informed and misunderstand why assets continue to become more expensive; other than these 100k new houses – which will quickly inflate to meet the market – we never create a platform that actually allows us to address the real issues behind affordability.

    When / if this increase in supply comes onto the market, these houses inflate to meet the market and we see no real change in affordability, where is Labour left in terms of it’s moral high ground around addressing housing affordability?

    I appreciate Labour is also doing work on CGT (no talk of LVR’s or LVT unfortunately) and on the RBNZ intervening to cool the foreign safe haven capital which is seeking yields from our interest rates and safety in our sovereign currency. Why not include this in the housing debate to bulid a mandate to better reign in the banks?

    As long as Europe, USA, UK, BRICS, Japan, China are slowing – potentially forever if you listen to Jeremy Grantham’s ‘On The Road To Zero Growth’ ( http://www.gurufocus.com/news/198413/gmos-jeremy-grantham-third-quarter-letter–on-the-road-to-zero-growth ) our banks are going to be flooded with both Fed, ECB, BoE, BoJ quantitative easing and with money looking for a safe place. And as long as our banks are full of this cash, they’re going to want to lend it out and profit from it… 5% deposit, want a free iPad with that?!?!

    This policy doesn’t address any of this, but it does continue to nourish the misunderstanding, maintaining the economic orthodoxy which got us here. We should be trying to build a platform for change which positively effects all 4.something million of us.

  11. BM 12

    Personally I think building houses for people to buy is a crap idea.

    I would prefer more state houses being built, use these houses to train up apprentice builders, plumbers sparkies etc..
    Training young people in apprenticeships is crap these days this is one area that I do think the government need to step in and get sorted and quickly as were about too lose a vast amount of trade qualified people over the next 10 years.

    Building pissy little prefabs will not produce qualified builders, you need to be building a variety of different houses, one story two story etc.
    That’s achievable with a state house building strategy not with a buy to own strategy.

    Also on another note flooding the employment market with construction workers would drive down wages significantly.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Also on another note flooding the employment market with construction workers would drive down wages significantly.

      There’s no excess of construction workers in the market place, but a lot of demand. So wages will rise.

  12. fisiani 13

    Promising an extra 100,000 homes over 10 years means building a home every 13 minutes. No amount of fancy graphics get around the impossibility of such a preposterous claim. It is not a promise it is a fraud.Oh and since the majority will be in Auckland is there the readily available land for more than 60,000 sections.

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      30,000 building consents issued during 2003 alone.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=3546571

      • Te Reo Putake 13.1.1

        C’mon, CV, play fair. Don’t confuse Fisi with facts, you know he only operates on gut instinct and random electrical impulses to his shattered nerve endings generated by mouthing aloud the words in Cameron Slater’s spittle flecked ramblings.

      • indiana 13.1.2

        Did those 30,000 building consents turn into actual homes? Do you need a building consent to build a car port, a balcony, a deck or make a permanent alteration to an existing house?

        Yes, new dwellings were reported in that article, but how many exactly? Certainly not the figure that is hoped to be built per year I am sure.

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.1

          Correct, 30,000 dwelling consents issued during 2003 alone, according to that article.

          • xtasy 13.1.2.1.1

            Take out the apartment dwellings for clearer figures, as that was in the midst of the apartment boom, where thousands were built, all mostly large to medium size blocks, each containing untold “dwellings”!

    • mike e 13.2

      Blind Monetarist we built 5,000 houses a year when the population was only 1 million and met those targets considering house builds take a third of the time to do now its very doable as well as the option of kitsets and prefabing your are blindly following and wallowing in your leader poncekeys cynicism!

  13. fisiani 14

    One house every 13 minutes. Do the maths – and remember that a working week is only 40 hours and not the 168 hours. Totally utterly impossible.

    • Matthew 14.1

      Well it is if only one team is doing it…. but if you had 2-3000 tradies doing it, using prefabbed sections built off site, using maybe another 1000 workers, trucked in & Assembled like Mechano…. thats 600-700 houses on the go at any one time JUST in Kiwibuild…. tell me again how 40 of those wont be completed every week?

      • felix 14.1.1

        I think fisi wants you to prove you can do it without employing anyone or investing any money.

      • BM 14.1.2

        Why would you want to do this?
        This is factory work, not trade qualified work.

        The only up side to the government building houses is the training which you’re not going to get with cheap tiny prefabs.

      • fisiani 14.1.3

        Duh Lets use your maths then
        40 houses per week and there are 48 effective working weeks after holidays, sick leave and public holidays equates to 1,920 a year NOT the mythical 10,000 a year every year.
        Still out by a factor of 5.

        • Lanthanide 14.1.3.1

          Hey Fisi, did you know that not everyone goes on holiday or has sick leave at the same time?

          It’s bizarre that you try and construct a 48-week year out of what is a 52-week year.

          • insider 14.1.3.1.1

            Ususally two weeks minimum lost at Xmas – more like 3 (most don’t go back 3 Jan) plus an additional 7 days annually through public holidays which is another week and a half working days. These generally affect all employees. So not hard to get to 48 weeks only available for work.

        • mike e 14.1.3.2

          fishy anal we were building nearly 30’000 a year before the GFC now we are down to 10’000 a year .
          So tell me how those other 20,000 houses a year got built! thats 54 a week!

          Your full of it!

    • r0b 14.2

      Christian charity “habitat for humanity” builds at least one house every few minutes (estimates from every 23 minutes to every 10 minutes) world wide.

      I don’t see any reason why the Government of NZ shouldn’t be able to match the performance of a single charitable organisation.

      Update: Oh look – a single construction company in Canada builds a house every 41 minutes.

    • Daveosaurus 14.3

      Because on Planet Fizzy, there is only one builder in the whole of New Zealand. Meanwhile, back in the real world…

  14. Ennui in Requiem 15

    Here in Purgatory we while away eternity playing a game of camel inflation, several deceased banker devils act as bookies and promise “salvation” so long as you commit your soul to ever increasing hours of being boiled in oil. We are all betting about how high the camel can go. For each hour we spend being boiled Satan inflates the camel with further and further blasts of helium…it is now floating near the ceiling. Lucifer is a pyromaniacal devil who keeps lighting straws and tosses them into the air…..on the downside if the camel explodes and breaks its back crash landing we will be left to boil in oil for eternity. Some of us think it is just a matter of time (of which we have plenty), others say the ceiling will rise and rise…….

  15. prism 16

    If Labour wants to solve today’s and tomorrow’s needs for affordable housing, the problem of price needs to be contained and controlled to prevent future repetition. If most of those houses had the government helping people who could save a small deposit over say two years, showing willing to control their finances so as to get to a better place in the living standard and stay there that would be a good first step.

    Second step is to develop a Housing Trust, outside NZ Housing and without their increasingly authoritarian and charity-riiden attitude,. This Trust would give customers of new houses who would be from the low income group, choices in their floor plan etc. and they would have an ordinary mortgage, but there would be short mortgage holidays allowed but also with a budget advisory meeting.

    When people wanted to move, there would be a lien or such to the the Housing Trust which would buy back their houses at an agreed valuation of say term deposit interest per year cumulatively for a house in good average condition. This would keep houses out of the hands of the raw free market and ensure that prices remained at a level that was affordable to low income, new housing group.

    My comment is awaiting moderation! IAU!

  16. You can’t beat the family benefit capitalization from years ago, if only kiwisaver could
    become a genuine vehicle for home ownership for all, instead of it being income tested
    for bank loans, this is where the govt could come in and supply cheap loans to those wanting
    to buy exsisting homes and for those who want to build homes,building homes will be
    out of the reach for many.
    Phil Goff introduced the family benefit scheme years ago,he would be the one to have a
    look into how it could be intergrated into the kiwisaver funds etc.
    Phil should be spearheading this one as well.

  17. Populuxe1 18

    The problem isn’t so much lack of housing as too many people wanting to live in Auckland. Encourage redistribution of population to smaller centres.
    Kiwibuild may very likely lead to a Clinton-esque property bubble.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Encourage redistribution of population to smaller centres.

      Exactly.

      • indiana 18.1.1

        We could start by legislating that NZ Post move their headquarters to Ekatahuna, Kiwi Rail to Mosgeil and Kiwi Bank to Gisborne.

        • Populuxe1 18.1.1.1

          In the days of decentralisation when Internal Affairs was in Timaru, TVNZ was in Christchurch, and Radio NZ was in Dunedin, it all worked just fine.

          • indiana 18.1.1.1.1

            Were those the same days when you could argue that the cost of living in Timaru was cheaper than Auckland, hence you didn’t need to pay the same wages as a person doing the same job in another office?

            • felix 18.1.1.1.1.1

              You talk about that as if it doesn’t happen today. Guess you don’t get around much.

      • AAMC 18.1.2

        I wonder, as the rest of the world slows, will we see a return of those who moved to Melbourne, London, Berlin etc, and to ‘the mines’. And will we see them settle out of the centers in search of more affordable living.

        Had a very interesting conversation with a young person looking for accomodation in Auckland the other day, she was tossing up whether to move to Melbourne or Whanganui.- suburban Auckland really isn’t that desireable for many – and was proposing this as a discussion many in her pear group were having.

  18. BM 19

    Did Labour actually talk to any one within the Construction industry while coming up with Kiwi Build?
    Or is it all in house theory?

      • BM 19.1.1

        Who are they, I couldn’t see any names in the article you linked to?

        • Te Reo Putake 19.1.1.1

          Yeah, good point, BM. Your wilful ingnorance is much more credible than Brian Rudman’s well researched opinions.

          How about you find some industry organisations who are opposed to this scheme? Hint: It’s going to be difficult for you, because the industry are quite keen on the idea of government guaranteed work for ten years on top of all that lucrative government guaranteed work in Chch. It’s a win/win/win, BM. Good for industry, good for workers, good for families.

          • BM 19.1.1.1.1

            So is Kiwi build just going to be just a group of office workers some where in Wellington dishing out tax payer coin to a few lucky building companies
            or
            Is Kiwi build going to be setting up offices up and down the country employing it’s own builders, painters, plasterers, sparkies etc.

          • xtasy 19.1.1.1.2

            Sorry Te Reo Putake: Rudman states nothing specific, only that it is not decided yet, “where” these houses, or rather “homes”, will go. He refers to Hobsonville, which is far out from Central Auckland, and mentions Annette King saying something about Housing NZ land to be partly considered.

            So is this program going to mean: Take it from the very poor, unable to even get a deposit for a home (HNZ tenants) and then give it to prospective middle-class first home buyers, so they can cast their grateful vote for Labour next time?

            It does not make any sense, and there is NOTHING specific. 66,000 new homes in Auckland require a fair bit of land, and that won’t come cheap!

            • Te Reo Putake 19.1.1.1.2.1

              Sorry, xtasy, but you’re vearing into strawman territory. There are plenty of options for land, including partnerships with councils and iwi. Apartments are also part of the package, so not every one will have an individual footprint. And I’m not sure why you think the plan requires 66,000 homes in Ak.
               
              I would have thought high growth areas will be targeted. Albany and the peninsular, Hamilton and Tauranga, Chch. Not Ak central or any suburb within a bike ride of K Rd. If you want to know how it might work in Ak, have a look at Melbourne; that’s the model, as I understand it. Suburbs built around efficient rail and roading corridors, not overpopulating the inner city.
               
              Edit: originally posted in the wrong place, got it right now.

              • xtasy

                TRP: As stated in other posts, there will need to be some controls placed on property and land value speculation, which will not just be done with a CGT. So what needs to happen is to dis-incentivise those land plot owners sitting on their plots for years, not willing to sell, as they want to wait for a high bidder offering them the best offer and highest profit.

                Maybe bring in a capital or land tax in some form after a tax exemption period, which should not be for too long. I know sections in Auckland that have been unused for years, and this is not just due to ongoing RMA issues or whatever.

                Also did I raise the option of nationalising certain lands, which could be considered of “strategic” importance with also social value, and thus be “bought” at affordable, low enough rateable value, not the speculative market values.

                Of course there are options, and I am also all for denser unit blocks, not too large apartment blocks and two level town- or terraced houses in certain spots along rail tracks, expanding existing settlements in suburbs and on the fringes. I oppose the endless sprawl though, as it will not turn out to be cheap and efficient at all in the end.

                Also the plan was to have 2 thirds of the homes built in Auckland, that makes roughly 66,666 to me. I agree, it may also be smart to give incentives to new migrants to move to other centres, rather than have so many settle in Auckland.

                But you would expected Labour to work out all this a bit more than they have done before making such big, daring announcements. That is “poor” and hopeless in my view.

      • Herodotus 19.1.2

        From the comments and press releases I have read I doubt very much of anyone associated with the development of land has been questioned from the lack if any knowledge on how things work , the time it takes the issues with small sections and council and planning requirements and as mentioned before site coverage impervious ground retro fitting existing infrastructure eg power, fibre, mains water pressure etc

  19. vto 20

    somebody said it above.

    John Key was raised in a house built by the New Zealand government and he says that he was very happy and thankful for that given his family’s financial circumstances. John Key takes political advantage of this.

    So why is he so against it now?

    He must answer this question given his politicising of this upbringing.

    • xtasy 20.1

      John Key was very happy and thankful, I presume, as he feels to be a “chosen and special human being”. He obviously does NOT see it as that others “deserve” to be “happy” as well, given his and his government’s policies!

  20. fisiani 21

    Mea culpa my maths was wrong when I said it would take 13 minutes to build a house to meet the outlandish claims by Labour
    Due to labour shortages caused by holidays, sick leave and statutory public holidays that only leaves 48 weeks
    48 x 40 x 60 = 115,200 minutes available
    Divide by the mythical 10,000 that is claimed and the Oompa Loompas have to complete every house in just 11.52 minutes without any consideration for breaks for tea, toilet or smoko or God forbid a roof shout. The Oompa Loompa union would have them out on strike for unfair working practices in the first week.

    • One Tāne Huna 21.1

      As CV says above, that must account for 30,000 dwelling consents issued during 2003 alone.

      The reality check exposes you every time, wingnut.

      • fisiani 21.1.1

        Repeat after me.
        A consent is not a contruction.
        Read it again and again till it gets through.
        Not even Willy Wonka would overwork the Oompa-Loompas as hard as that
        Lets have some fun with pointing out the “reality” of building a house in 11.52 minutes.

        http://www.b4ubuild.com/resources/schedule/6kproj.shtml

        1 1 Contracts 0.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        2 1.1 – Supply Lot Sale Agreement 0.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        3 1.2 – Supply Construction Agreement 0.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        4 1.3 – Supply Contract Plans 0.00d 3 Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        5 1.4 – Supply Contract Specifications 0.00d 3 Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        6 1.5 – Supply Contract Site Plan 0.00d 3 Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        7 1.6 – Secure Financing 0.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        8 1.7 – Construction Loan Settlement 0.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        9 2 Document Review & Revision 25.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Wed 7/9/12
        10 2.1 – Review & Finalize Plans 15.00d 4 Thu 6/5/12 Wed 6/25/12
        11 2.2 – Review & Finalize Specifications 20.00d 5 Thu 6/5/12 Wed 7/2/12
        12 2.3 – Review & Finalize Site Plan 1.00d 6,10 Thu 6/26/12 Thu 6/26/12
        13 2.4 – Print Construction Drawings 5.00d 10,11,12 Thu 7/3/12 Wed 7/9/12
        14 2.5 – Approve Revised Plans 0.00d 13 Wed 7/9/12 Wed 7/9/12
        15 2.6 – Approve Revised Specifications 0.00d 13 Wed 7/9/12 Wed 7/9/12
        16 2.7 – Approve Revised Site Plan 0.00d 13 Wed 7/9/12 Wed 7/9/12
        17 3 Bids & Contracts 24.00d . Thu 7/10/12 Tue 8/12/12
        18 3.1 – Make Copies of Plans 3.00d 14 Thu 7/10/12 Mon 7/14/12
        19 3.2 – Make Copies of Specifications 2.00d 15 Thu 7/10/12 Fri 7/11/12
        20 3.3 – Distribute Plans & Specifications 1.00d 18,19 Tue 7/15/12 Tue 7/15/12
        21 3.4 – Receive Bids 10.00d 20 Wed 7/16/12 Tue 7/29/12
        22 3.5 Review Bids 5.00d . Wed 7/30/12 Tue 8/5/12
        25 3.6 – Execute Subcontractor Agreements 5.00d 23 Wed 8/6/12 Tue 8/12/12
        26 4 Grading & Building Permits 17.00d . Thu 7/10/12 Fri 8/1/12
        27 4.1 – Schedule lot stake-out 1.00d 13 Thu 7/10/12 Thu 7/10/12
        28 4.2 – Stake lot 1.00d 27FS+3d Wed 7/16/12 Wed 7/16/12
        29 4.3 – File Grading Permit Application 1.00d 16 Thu 7/10/12 Thu 7/10/12
        30 4.4 – File Building Permit Application 3.00d 14,15,16 Thu 7/10/12 Mon 7/14/12
        31 4.5 – Post Lot Identification 1.00d 28,29,30 Thu 7/17/12 Thu 7/17/12
        32 4.6 – Meet Sed. Control Insp. 1.00d 29FS+2d,28,31 Fri 7/18/12 Fri 7/18/12
        33 4.7 – Walk Lot w/ Owner 1.00d 32 Mon 7/21/12 Mon 7/21/12
        34 4.8 – Install Construction Entrance 1.00d 32,33 Tue 7/22/12 Tue 7/22/12
        35 4.9 – Install Sediment Controls 2.00d 32,33 Tue 7/22/12 Wed 7/23/12
        36 4.10 – Sediment Control Insp. 1.00d 34,35 Thu 7/24/12 Thu 7/24/12
        37 4.11 – Grading Permit Issued 1.00d 36 Fri 7/25/12 Fri 7/25/12
        38 4.12 – County Permit Process 10.00d 30 Tue 7/15/12 Mon 7/28/12
        39 4.13 – Building Permit Approved 1.00d 38,37 Tue 7/29/12 Tue 7/29/12
        40 4.14 – Pay Permit Fees and Excise Taxes 1.00d 39FS+2d Fri 8/1/12 Fri 8/1/12
        41 4.15 – Building Permit Issued 0.00d 40 Fri 8/1/12 Fri 8/1/12
        42 5 Site Work 7.00d . Mon 7/28/12 Tue 8/5/12
        43 5.1 – Clear Lot 3.00d 37 Mon 7/28/12 Wed 7/30/12
        44 5.2 – Strip Topsoil & Stockpile 1.00d 43 Thu 7/31/12 Thu 7/31/12
        45 5.3 – Stake Lot for Excavation 1.00d 43 Thu 7/31/12 Thu 7/31/12
        46 5.4 – Rough grade lot 1.00d 43,45 Fri 8/1/12 Fri 8/1/12
        47 5.5 – Excavate for foundation 2.00d 39,45,43,46 Mon 8/4/12 Tue 8/5/12
        48 6 Foundation 24.00d . Wed 8/6/12 Mon 9/8/12
        49 6.1 – Layout footings 1.00d 47 Wed 8/6/12 Wed 8/6/12
        50 6.2 – Dig Footings & Install Reinforcing 1.00d 49 Thu 8/7/12 Thu 8/7/12
        51 6.3 – Footing Inspection 0.00d 50 Thu 8/7/12 Thu 8/7/12
        52 6.4 – Pour footings 1.00d 51 Fri 8/8/12 Fri 8/8/12
        53 6.5 – Pin Footings 1.00d 52 Mon 8/11/12 Mon 8/11/12
        54 6.6 – Stock Block, Mortar, Sand 1.00d 53 Tue 8/12/12 Tue 8/12/12
        55 6.7 – Build Block Foundation 15.00d 53,54 Wed 8/13/12 Tue 9/2/12
        56 6.8 – Foundation Certification 0.00d 55 Tue 9/2/12 Tue 9/2/12
        57 6.9 – Draw #1 (Location Survey) 0.00d 56 Tue 9/2/12 Tue 9/2/12
        58 6.10 – Fill Block Cores w/ Concrete 1.00d 55 Wed 9/3/12 Wed 9/3/12
        59 6.11 – Steel Delivery 1.00d 58 Thu 9/4/12 Thu 9/4/12
        60 6.12 – Set Lintels, Bolts, Cap Block 2.00d 59 Fri 9/5/12 Mon 9/8/12
        61 6.13 – Lumber Delivery 1.00d 58 Thu 9/4/12 Thu 9/4/12
        62 6.14 – Waterproofing and Drain Tile 1.00d 61 Fri 9/5/12 Fri 9/5/12
        63 7 Rough Carpentry 44.00d . Tue 9/9/12 Fri 11/7/12
        64 7.1 – Set Steel 1.00d 60 Tue 9/9/12 Tue 9/9/12
        65 7.2 – 1st Floor Deck Framing 4.00d 64 Wed 9/10/12 Mon 9/15/12
        66 7.3 – 1st Floor Wall Framing 4.00d 65 Tue 9/16/12 Fri 9/19/12
        67 7.4 – Draw #2 (First Floor Deck) 0.00d 66 Fri 9/19/12 Fri 9/19/12
        68 7.5 – 2nd Floor Deck Framing 2.00d 67 Mon 9/22/12 Tue 9/23/12
        69 7.6 – Draw #3 (Second Floor Deck) 0.00d 68 Tue 9/23/12 Tue 9/23/12
        70 7.7 – 2nd Floor Wall Framing 3.00d 69 Wed 9/24/12 Fri 9/26/12
        71 7.8 – Set Roof Trusses 2.00d 70 Mon 9/29/12 Tue 9/30/12
        72 7.9 – Frame Roof 7.00d 71 Wed 10/1/12 Thu 10/9/12
        73 7.10 – Install Roof Plywood 5.00d 72 Fri 10/10/12 Thu 10/16/12
        74 7.11 – Install Windows & Doors 2.00d 73,111 Wed 10/22/12 Thu 10/23/12
        75 7.12 – Frame Basement 3.00d 72,81 Fri 10/10/12 Tue 10/14/12
        76 7.13 – Frame Basement Bulkheads 2.00d 75,87,93 Thu 11/6/12 Fri 11/7/12
        77 8 Concrete Slabs 8.00d . Thu 9/18/12 Mon 9/29/12
        78 8.1 – Basement Slab Preparation 2.00d 65,91 Thu 9/18/12 Fri 9/19/12
        79 8.2 – Termite Treatment Basment Slab 1.00d 78 Mon 9/22/12 Mon 9/22/12
        80 8.3 – Slab Inspection 1.00d 79 Tue 9/23/12 Tue 9/23/12
        81 8.4 – Pour Basement Slab 1.00d 80 Wed 9/24/12 Wed 9/24/12
        82 8.5 – Prep Garage Slab 1.00d 81 Thu 9/25/12 Thu 9/25/12
        83 8.6 – Termite Treatment Garage Slab 1.00d 82 Fri 9/26/12 Fri 9/26/12
        84 8.7 – Pour Garage Slab 1.00d 83 Mon 9/29/12 Mon 9/29/12
        85 9 H.V.A.C. 17.00d . Fri 10/10/12 Mon 11/3/12
        86 9.1 – HVAC Layout & Measure 1.00d 72 Fri 10/10/12 Fri 10/10/12
        87 9.2 – HVAC Rough-in 5.00d 86,111 Wed 10/22/12 Tue 10/28/12
        88 9.3 – HVAC Set Indoor Units 2.00d 81,87 Wed 10/29/12 Thu 10/30/12
        89 9.4 – HVAC Temporary Heat 2.00d 88 Fri 10/31/12 Mon 11/3/12
        90 10 Plumbing Rough-in 37.00d . Tue 9/16/12 Wed 11/5/12
        91 10.1 – Plumbing Sub-slab 2.00d 65 Tue 9/16/12 Wed 9/17/12
        92 10.2 – Plumbing Layout 1.00d 91,87 Wed 10/29/12 Wed 10/29/12
        93 10.3 – Plumbing rough-in 5.00d 92 Thu 10/30/12 Wed 11/5/12
        94 11 County Plumbing Sub-slab Inspection 0.00d 91 Wed 9/17/12 Wed 9/17/12
        95 12 County Plumbing Rough-in Inspection 0.00d 93 Wed 11/5/12 Wed 11/5/12
        96 13 Electric Rough-in 19.00d . Fri 10/24/12 Wed 11/19/12
        97 13.1 – Set Electric Boxes 2.00d 74 Fri 10/24/12 Mon 10/27/12
        98 13.2 – Install Electric Service Panel 2.00d 97 Tue 10/28/12 Wed 10/29/12
        99 13.3 – Electrical Walk-through 1.00d 98 Thu 10/30/12 Thu 10/30/12
        100 13.4 – Electrical Rough-wire 14.00d 99 Fri 10/31/12 Wed 11/19/12
        101 14 Specialty Rough-ins 5.00d . Thu 11/20/12 Wed 11/26/12
        102 14.1 – Central Vacuum Rough-in 5.00d 100 Thu 11/20/12 Wed 11/26/12
        103 14.2 – Alarm System Rough-in 5.00d 100 Thu 11/20/12 Wed 11/26/12
        104 14.3 – Telephone System Rough-in 5.00d 100 Thu 11/20/12 Wed 11/26/12
        105 14.4 – Television System Rough-in 5.00d 100 Thu 11/20/12 Wed 11/26/12
        106 14.5 – Audio Visual Rough-in 5.00d 100 Thu 11/20/12 Wed 11/26/12
        107 15 County Electrical inspection 0.00d 96,101 Wed 11/26/12 Wed 11/26/12
        108 16 Draw #5 (Rough-ins complete) 0.00d 95,107 Wed 11/26/12 Wed 11/26/12
        109 17 County Framing Inspection 0.00d 95FS+1d,107FS+1d Thu 11/27/12 Thu 11/27/12
        110 18 Roofing 68.00d . Fri 10/17/12 Tue 1/20/13
        111 18.1 – Roofing Paper Installed 3.00d 73 Fri 10/17/12 Tue 10/21/12
        112 18.2 – Draw #4 (Roof, windows, doors) 0.00d 74,111 Thu 10/23/12 Thu 10/23/12
        113 18.3 – Stock Roof Shingles 1.00d 112 Fri 10/24/12 Fri 10/24/12
        114 18.4 – Install Roof Shingles 7.00d 113,119 Mon 1/12/13 Tue 1/20/13
        115 19 Exterior Finishes 56.00d . Fri 10/24/12 Fri 1/9/13
        116 19.1 – Siding 3.00d 74 Fri 10/24/12 Tue 10/28/12
        117 19.2 – Exterior Trim 7.00d 116 Wed 10/29/12 Thu 11/6/12
        118 19.3 – Brick Arch Forms 1.00d 117 Fri 11/7/12 Fri 11/7/12
        119 19.4 – Brick Veneer 45.00d 118 Mon 11/10/12 Fri 1/9/13
        120 20 Insulation 5.00d . Fri 11/28/12 Thu 12/4/12
        121 20.1 – Caulk & Air Seal 1.00d 109 Fri 11/28/12 Fri 11/28/12
        122 20.2 – Draft & Fire Stop 1.00d 121 Mon 12/1/12 Mon 12/1/12
        123 20.3 – Batt Insulation 3.00d 121,122 Tue 12/2/12 Thu 12/4/12
        124 21 County Insulation Inspection 0.00d 123,120 Thu 12/4/12 Thu 12/4/12
        125 22 BGE Energy Wise Inspection 0.00d 124 Thu 12/4/12 Thu 12/4/12
        126 23 Drywall 26.00d . Fri 12/5/12 Fri 1/9/13
        127 23.1 – Stock Drywall 1.00d 124 Fri 12/5/12 Fri 12/5/12
        128 23.2 – Hang Drywall 5.00d 127 Mon 12/8/12 Fri 12/12/12
        129 23.3 – Remove Scrap Drywall 1.00d 128 Mon 12/15/12 Mon 12/15/12
        130 23.4 – Tape and Finish Drywall 15.00d 128,129 Tue 12/16/12 Mon 1/5/13
        131 23.5 – Sand Drywall 1.00d 130 Tue 1/6/13 Tue 1/6/13
        132 23.6 – Drywall Point-up 3.00d 131 Wed 1/7/13 Fri 1/9/13
        133 24 Draw #6 (Insulation & drywall applied) 0.00d 128,126 Fri 1/9/13 Fri 1/9/13
        134 25 Floor Finishes 76.00d . Tue 1/13/13 Tue 4/28/13
        135 25.1 – Ceramic Tile 15.00d 142 Tue 1/13/13 Mon 2/2/13
        136 25.2 – Install Hardwood Floor 4.00d 146 Fri 3/27/13 Wed 4/1/13
        137 25.3 – Sand, Stain, Seal Hardwood 5.00d 196 Thu 4/16/13 Wed 4/22/13
        138 25.4 – Install Carpet 4.00d 137 Thu 4/23/13 Tue 4/28/13
        139 25.5 – Final Coat Hardwood 2.00d 196 Thu 4/16/13 Fri 4/17/13
        140 26 Paint 59.00d . Wed 1/7/13 Mon 3/30/13
        141 26.1 – Prep Drywall for Prime Coat 2.00d 131 Wed 1/7/13 Thu 1/8/13
        142 26.2 – Prime Paint Drywall 2.00d 141 Fri 1/9/13 Mon 1/12/13
        143 26.3 – Prep Trim for Prime Coat 2.00d 142,152 Wed 1/21/13 Thu 1/22/13
        144 26.4 – Prime Trim 2.00d 143 Fri 1/23/13 Mon 1/26/13
        145 26.5 – Finish Coat Trim 10.00d 144,156 Mon 2/23/13 Fri 3/6/13
        146 26.6 – Finish Coat Drywall 14.00d 145,132 Mon 3/9/13 Thu 3/26/13
        147 26.7 – Caulk Exterior Windows & Doors 1.00d 146,117 Fri 3/27/13 Fri 3/27/13
        148 26.8 – Finish Coat Exterior Trim & Siding 1.00d 147 Mon 3/30/13 Mon 3/30/13
        149 27 Draw #7 (Roofing, masonry, siding) 0.00d 114,157 Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        150 28 Interior Trim 29.00d . Tue 1/13/13 Fri 2/20/13
        151 28.1 – Interior Trim Delivery 1.00d 142 Tue 1/13/13 Tue 1/13/13
        152 28.2 – Install Interior Doors 5.00d 151 Wed 1/14/13 Tue 1/20/13
        153 28.3 – Install Interior Trim 15.00d 152 Wed 1/21/13 Tue 2/10/13
        154 28.4 – Install Cabinetry 5.00d 153 Wed 2/11/13 Tue 2/17/13
        155 28.5 – Install Appliances 1.00d 154 Wed 2/18/13 Wed 2/18/13
        156 28.6 – 1st Punch-out Interior Trim 2.00d 155,144 Thu 2/19/13 Fri 2/20/13
        157 29 H.V.A.C. Trim 1.00d 140 Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        158 29.1 – Install Grills & Registers for Paint 1.00d 131 Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        159 29.2 – Set Outdoor Units 1.00d 165 Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        160 30 Plumbing Trim 5.00d . Thu 4/2/13 Wed 4/8/13
        161 30.1 – Set Fixtures 4.00d 135,136,146,154 Thu 4/2/13 Tue 4/7/13
        162 30.2 – Connect Appliances 1.00d 161 Wed 4/8/13 Wed 4/8/13
        163 31 County Final Plumbing Inspection 0.00d 160 Wed 4/8/13 Wed 4/8/13
        164 32 Exterior Landscaping 32.00d . Mon 1/12/13 Tue 2/24/13
        165 32.1 – Rough Final Grade 1.00d 119 Mon 1/12/13 Mon 1/12/13
        166 32.2 – Patios 7.00d 165,119 Tue 1/13/13 Wed 1/21/13
        167 32.3 – Porches 5.00d 166,119 Thu 1/22/13 Wed 1/28/13
        168 32.4 – Sidewalks 7.00d 167,119 Thu 1/29/13 Fri 2/6/13
        169 32.5 – Decks 7.00d 168,119 Mon 2/9/13 Tue 2/17/13
        170 32.6 – Driveways 2.00d 165,169 Wed 2/18/13 Thu 2/19/13
        171 32.7 – Final Grade and Seed 3.00d 170,166,167,168 Fri 2/20/13 Tue 2/24/13
        172 33 Electrical Final Trim 160.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Wed 1/14/13
        173 33.1 – Switch & Plug 2.00d 142,100 Tue 1/13/13 Wed 1/14/13
        174 33.2 – Install Fixtures 1.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        175 33.3 – Connect Appliances 1.00d . Thu 6/5/12 Thu 6/5/12
        176 34 Hardware 12.00d . Fri 3/27/13 Mon 4/13/13
        177 34.1 – Door Hardware 2.00d 145,146 Fri 3/27/13 Mon 3/30/13
        178 34.2 – Bath Hardware 2.00d 145,146 Fri 3/27/13 Mon 3/30/13
        179 34.3 – Mirrors 5.00d 178 Tue 3/31/13 Mon 4/6/13
        180 34.4 – Shower Doors 10.00d 178 Tue 3/31/13 Mon 4/13/13
        181 35 Draw #8 (Prime paint, cabinets, doors) 0.00d 142,152,154 Tue 2/17/13 Tue 2/17/13
        182 36 Draw #9 (Trim, furnace, hrdwd, tile, rails) 0.00d 153,181 Tue 2/17/13 Tue 2/17/13
        183 37 Draw #10 (Plumbing & elec. trim, final paint) 0.00d 146,182 Thu 3/26/13 Thu 3/26/13
        184 38 Final Building Inspection 0.00d 183 Thu 3/26/13 Thu 3/26/13
        185 39 Use & Occupancy Certificate 0.00d 184FS+3d Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        186 40 First Walk-thru 0.00d 185 Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        187 41 Draw #11 (Final payment per contract) 0.00d 186 Tue 3/31/13 Tue 3/31/13
        188 42 Final Punch-out 9.00d . Wed 4/1/13 Mon 4/13/13
        189 42.1 – Punch Out Walk-thru List 4.00d 186 Wed 4/1/13 Mon 4/6/13
        190 42.2 – Trim and Adjust Doors 2.00d 184,189 Tue 4/7/13 Wed 4/8/13
        191 42.3 – Paint Touch-up 3.00d 190 Thu 4/9/13 Mon 4/13/13
        192 43 Cleaning 14.00d . Fri 3/27/13 Wed 4/15/13
        193 43.1 – Windows 3.00d 145,146 Fri 3/27/13 Tue 3/31/13
        194 43.2 – Rough Clean 3.00d 193 Wed 4/1/13 Fri 4/3/13
        195 43.3 – Final Clean 2.00d 176,188 Tue 4/14/13 Wed 4/15/13
        196 44 Final Walk-through 0.00d 187,188,192 Wed 4/15/13 Wed 4/15/13
        197 45 Move-in 0.00d 196FS+1d Thu 4/16/13 Thu 4/16/13

        • vto 21.1.1.1

          Well that was a waste of time.

          You do realise that along with consent without construction there is also construction without consent

          • fisiani 21.1.1.1.1

            You are not seriously claiming that Labour wants to build unconsented slums???????

            • vto 21.1.1.1.1.1

              lordy it is slow work engaging with some on here.. or maybe they are intentionally pig-headed. talking construction works carried out each year in the construction sector.

              here is a more simple question for you – if in the recent past (2007) there were 30,000 homes built per year and now there are 10,000 homes built per year, how many does that mean there is spare capacity for?

            • mike e 21.1.1.1.1.2

              Fishy anal thats what happened under National remember $30 to $40 billion dollars of leaky homes with consent you idiot!

        • One Tāne Huna 21.1.1.2

          Thirty thousand dwellings a year, eh? Busy little builders.

        • Puddleglum 21.1.1.3

          Isn’t that a project schedule for a 6,000 sq foot double story house (with decking on first and second floors) in Maryland (presumably USA?)?

          What does this have to do with a 90 sq m, prefabricated dwelling in New Zealand? 

          • One Tāne Huna 21.1.1.3.1

            “What does this have to do with…?”

            It’s a straw to clutch at while Fisi drowns in four inches of water.

          • felix 21.1.1.3.2

            It’s also a schedule for ONE HOUSE, so all the consents and plans and reviews and revisions and copies and finance and bids and tenders and contracts and subcontracts and land sale agreements etc etc occur simultaneously for large numbers of homes.

            fisi is still trying to imagine each house being finished before the next is begun.

        • prism 21.1.1.4

          fisiani
          That is an exhaustive (exhausting) list. Would it happen that somewhere in there was a control that stops leaky, fungusy housing being erected. If you can’t trust your builder to know what all this is about, you’re stuffed as the average joe wouldn’t cope.

    • r0b 21.2

      In other news, about 60,000 babies are born in NZ every year year. Somewhere out there a woman is having a baby every 10 minutes! Impossible!

      • infused 21.2.1

        and there’s what, 2 million women, yeah, what are the chances?

        How many builders do we have again?

        • r0b 21.2.1.1

          The question isn’t how many builders we have, it is how many we can ramp up over 10 years. Lots of new jobs. Two birds with one stone. Very clever policy. Eh?

          • BM 21.2.1.1.1

            Kiwi build will create plenty of hammer hands and labourers, no tradesmen though.

            • Te Reo Putake 21.2.1.1.1.1

              Electricians, plumbers and builders. All tradesmen. All needed before construction is complete.

              • BM

                Apart from a couple to oversee and sign off work, you don’t need tradesmen to knock up up the pre fabs.

                What Labour seems to be proposing is factory work not building work, also the amount of money labour has put aside for each house costs are going to be cut to the bone == unskilled labour.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Yes you do need tradesmen. You need electricians, plumbers and builders. They will be assisted by hammer hands and labourers, but the law requires tradesmen to oversee and sign off the work. That sysem applies to prefab houses being built now, and it’s not going to change under this scheme. What will change is the country’s housing stock, which will go up and the country’s unemployment, which will go down.

                  Oh, and I expect the levels of unionisation will improve in the industry too, which will be good for the wage rates of workers in construction everywhere in the industry.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  And yet I know four people who just got jobs in a pre-fab place as apprentice builders.

                  • BM

                    Building pre -fabs doesn’t equal qualified tradesmen.
                    A qualified chippie should at the end of his/ her five year apprenticeship be able to set out and construct a one story home and two story home from scratch using brick cladding, timber cladding, solid plaster,etc
                    Also he/she should be able to construct these houses on level and sloping ground.
                    How is an apprentice going to achieve these skills building 90m2 boxes in a factory?

                    No offence but these guys aren’t going to be qualified builders at the end of their apprenticeships.
                    I’d certainly wouldn’t want them building a house for me.

                    It’s almost the equivalent of creating Hello World and then calling yourself a software developer.

                    • felix

                      Totally agree – a lot of it will be factory-based work which will at best train hammerhands.

                      Problem?

                    • BM

                      Yeah I have a couple.

                      1. Labour saying that there’s 2000 apprenticeship opportunities, which isn’t quite correct.

                      2.If the government is going to build houses it should be state houses, increase the state house building program and train apprentices within that.The opportunities exists to build a wide variety of houses on all types sections so you will end up with really qualified tradesmen/women.
                      We desperately need to transfer the information from the older tradesmen to the younger guys before they retire, government run apprenticeships offer a great environment for learning because you can take a bit longer and get it right

                      3. Building more state houses would actually take the heat out of the property market by providing cheaper rents, this would force down the price of property and provide opportunities for younger people to purchase their first homes.

                      Build state houses, not private houses.

                    • felix

                      I agree with all of that.

                      I’m not particularly enamored of this policy when compared to the state house option, but it’s the best thing on the table so far.

                      Two options, neither of them ideal. Do nothing? Or build some much needed homes and provide some much needed jobs?

                    • BM

                      Definitely go the state house option and in all honesty it’s some times best to do nothing.

                      For example in stock and currency trading there’s 3 positions
                      1.Long
                      2.Short
                      3.On the sidelines.

                      You only have a certain pool of money to work with so you want to protect it, throwing it away on a long shot isn’t a particularly wise strategy.

                      With Kiwibuild, Labour has a bit of a problem in that they’ve shown every one their cards, they can’t change direction without looking totally incompetent.

                      Labour will get torn to shreds regarding this policy leading up to the election especially if Shearer is the one doing the selling.

                    • mike e

                      Blind monetarist what BS you talk prefabs still need carpenters electricians plumbers Roofers etc!

                    • BM

                      Fuck, you’re an idiot.
                      Not sure why I’m even replying.

                    • felix

                      That’s where we differ BM, I don’t see jobs and homes as a “long shot” – they’re a bloody necessity.

                      You can make any position seem reasonable by talking about it in the abstract, but this isn’t currency trading.

                      It’s people’s lives.

                      ps I reckon anything they put up will get them torn to shreds if Shearer is fronting it…

                • mike e

                  Blind Monetarist when you don’t have an argument you give up I work in the building industry,with someone who worked in a factory producing 32 hoses a week.
                  So your argument is very week!

          • infused 21.2.1.1.2

            Then what happens when we are finished? Same spot.

        • vto 21.2.1.2

          Enough builders to build 30,000 homes every year, like was done during the last boom.

          Now we are building 10,000 per year.

          infused, starter for ten, what does 30,000 minus 10,000 equal? And how does that answer relate to Labour’s proposal?

          • infused 21.2.1.2.1

            It doesn’t relate or answer anything.

            “Our target is to ramp up to building 10,000 houses a year by the end of our first term (or as
            swiftly as the availability of skilled labour allows), and to continue at this level for around ten
            years.”

            ‘ramp up’ to 10,000 additional houses per year over 3 years with a nice little out clause.

            • vto 21.2.1.2.1.1

              i give up

              • infused

                you never started. There’s not enough builders, time, space or money. The entire policy is a load a bs.

                Wait and see.

                • vto

                  ffs,,, ” There’s not enough builders, time, space or money”

                  Five years ago there were enough builders, time and space and money to build 30,000 homes every year.

                  Now there are only 10,000 homes being built every year (the lowest since about the early 70s actually).

                  Two questions;

                  1. what does 30,000 minus 10,000 equal?
                  2. how many homes does this policy want to build each year?

                  Now, I give up because I have to go and build a house. Egg

    • Draco T Bastard 21.3

      Mea culpa my maths was wrong…

      We already knew that and proved it the other day and you’re still talking out your arse as per normal.

      48 x 40 x 60 = 115,200 minutes available

      and then multiply that by the thousands of people we have available to do the work. You know, like the 3334 (that’s 384,076,800 minutes just in case you’re too stupid to use a calculator) builders that it would take to build those ten thousand houses in one year.

      There really is no point in engaging you as you’re far too stupid to know WTF we’re talking about.

  21. vto 22

    It is noted that fisiani and infused and various other naysayers constantly raise the issue of capacity in New Zealand to build an extra 10,000 homes per year.

    It is further noted that fisiani and infused abd other naysayers have refused to answer when it is explained to them that five years ago NZ built 30,000 homes per year and now builds only 10,000 homes per year (lowest since early 70s as I recall, and another indictiment on Key’s brighter future), leaving capacity for an additional 20,000 homes per year.

    Why would they avoid this point do you think? And what implications are there for their lack of honesty on this? I know we are not supposed to make assumptions when it appears a commenter runs for cover but ffs it is blatant on this thread and destroys what should be a robust and honest debate. So strike me down.

  22. Herodotus 23

    Re land cost currently you could buy a bulk site for$400/m2 for 7000m that would allow 50 dwellings problem is that council contributions of $10-$20 kper lot water connection $8k so we aproach $100k for land and that is a high density situation apartment or attached housing , approx 1 year to get planning and resource consenting then to build

    • mike e 23.1

      Hero it could be done quite easily by but would not take off straight away ! this govt has already changed the resource consent and planning times! by the time CH CH rebuild is winding down Auckland will be ready to take off!
      What we need is a wide ranging CGT to stabilize house prices!
      Sections would not be so much of a cost with low rise apartments being built!

      • Herodotus 23.1.1

        From the time a coy has identified a site it takes time to complete due diligence. Review planning requirements, design a plan, working drawings etc. Then you have to apply for a sub division consent that aligns where the individual titles are to the high density block, construct and obtain titles (get the building and title process wrong then there could be major issues later on as your house may not be fully on your land !!) Also my figures above are GST exclusive. Every time council has a question or requires clarification the clock stops in regard to the time a consent is to take and the KPI’s that council use to monitor this type of process.
        And this costing is based on the lowest price I have come across in Auckland !!!

  23. xtasy 24

    This thread of comments appears to have ended at about the 6 pm news. No surprise, as the news on ONE and 3News revealed what the market situation is re section costs in Auckland, where 2 thirds of Labour’s 100,000 new “homes” are supposed to be built over 10 years. An average section alone costs about as much as what Labour want to offer the whole properties for, for first time buyers.

    So maybe bring your tent, once the section has been acquired!

    Then Newlands, quoted as an expert in property, stated that the figures presented by Labour would NEVER stack up. It is impossible to build those homes at such costs over 10 years.

    Also was there an item on both news showing how Goff, Shearer and Sio were going around new developments in South Auckland and meeting new home owners there. One gave them his dim view, and Shearer, asked about section prices in Auckland, had no real answer (as usual).

    It was followed by the comments that average sections in Auckland cost about 300 k, and that is just the average, without a home on it.

    Go onto Trade Me Property, the Real Estate websites of the following perhaps:
    http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/CategoryAttributeSearchResults.aspx
    http://www.realestate.co.nz/residential/search/districts/223/property_types/9/page2

    Then you can see yourselves, what is out of control in Auckland.

    This whole country is out of control under this government, and sadly in some ways NZ has mismanaged for the last 2 or so decades, selling off to overseas investors, having revolving migration, where disillusioned locals move to Australia and get placed by hopeful, desperate, new migrants from other places, forced to work for often low pay and getting sold a shit dream of a future, that does not exist here.

    NZ is STUFFED. And Labour is DEAD, as they have not even got the advisors they need to present sensible policies anymore.

    Shearer is a total embarrassment now, and wait until he will get his lashing in Parliament’s Question Time tomorrow, the Nats and Key just love it!

    A large scale state housing program is needed, not this silly plan Shearer now sells to dreamers and ignorant as his great plan and his great speech. Also stiff controls to stop overseas property buying in housing here, same as nationalization of some strategic lands and assets, and much more will be needed.

    This IDIOT Labour as caucus elected is a total liability as he is the laughing stock of any intelligent person on the LEFT and even RIGHT now!

    Step down Shearer, you are useless! An new party on the Left is needed, starting from scratch, to incorporate also Mana and the Greens, nothing else will get us anywhere.

    • Draco T Bastard 24.1

      +1

      To be honest, the more I read about this plan of Labours the more I hate it. It really is just a plan to get people borrowing more so as to provide an artificial boost to growth.

      • Colonial Viper 24.1.1

        Get middle class people borrowing more and then handing the cash over to corporate outfits like Fletchers. Great.

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    That's the only response to the findings of the Ombudsman's investigation into LGOIMA practices at the Christchurch City Council:My investigation identified serious concerns about the Council’s leadership and culture, and its commitment to openness and transparency. In particular, Council staff raised concerns with me about various methods employed by some ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    22 hours ago
  • There is what corruption looks like
    NZ First seems to be nakedly trying to enrich itself from public office:A powerful New Zealand First figure helped establish a forestry company that then pushed for money from two key funding streams controlled by a New Zealand First Minister. An RNZ investigation has found Brian Henry, lawyer for Winston ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    24 hours ago
  • Escape from Manus Island
    Behrouz Boochani is an award winning author and journalist. He is also a refugee, who for the past six years has been detained in Australia's offshore gulag on Manus Island, and in Papua New Guinea. But last night, with the cooperation of the WORD Christchurch festival and Amnesty International, he ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • When World’s Collide.
    Different Strokes: If a multicultural immigration policy imposes no obligation on immigrant communities to acknowledge and ultimately embrace their host nation’s most cherished traditions and values, then how is that nation to prevent itself from being reduced to a collection of inward-looking and self-replicating ethnic and cultural enclaves?THE COALITION GOVERNMENT’S ...
    1 day ago
  • Could There Be Method In Massey University’s Madness?
    Protective Zone: Reading the rules and guidelines released by Massey University, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that its governing body considers the whole concept of free speech a disruptive threat to the orderly imparting of orthodox academic knowledge.IN TRUE ORWELLIAN fashion, Massey University has announced its commitment to ...
    1 day ago
  • Climate Change: We need more trees, not less
    Farmers held a hate-march on Parliament today, complete with MAGA hats, gun-nut signs, and gendered insults. While supposedly about a grab-bag of issues - including, weirdly, mental health - it was clear that the protest was about one thing, and one thing only: climate change. And specifically, forestry "destroying" rural ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • The IGIS annual report: Dead letters and secret law
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security released their annual report today, and I've been busy reading through it. In amongst the usual review of what they've been doing all year, there's a few interesting bits. For example, a discussion on "agency retention and disposal of information", which points out that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A referendum on bigotry
    The End of Life Choice Bill passed its third reading last night, 69 - 51. Thanks to a compromise with NZ First - which looks to have been necessary on the final numbers - the commencement of the bill will be subject to a referendum. Given the ugliness of the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Political parties and GMOs: we all need to move on
    Recently more than 150 post-graduate students and young scientists presented an open letter to the Green Party via The Spinoff, encouraging them to reconsider their position on genetic modification. Their target is tackling climate change issues.[1] Can any party continue to be dismissive about genetic modification (GM) contributing to ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 days ago
  • Class, Identity Politics and Transgender Ideology
    by Deirdre O’Neill Under Thatcher and then Blair and continuing up until our contemporary moment, the working class has seen its culture slowly and progressively destroyed. The change from an industrial society to a service society produced a marked shift in focus from the working class as the backbone of ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • Irony
    Since 2013, the Australian government has detained refugees without trial in Pacific gulags, where they are abused, tortured, and driven to suicide. The policy is not just an abuse of human rights and possible crime against humanity; it has also had a corrosive effect on the states Australia uses as ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • An age of protest.
    It seems fair to say that we currently live in a problematic political moment in world history. Democracies are in decline and dictatorships are on the rise. Primordial, sectarian and post-modern divisions have re-emerged, are on the rise or have been accentuated by political evolutions of the moment such as ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    3 days ago
  • Another captured agency
    Last month, Greenpeace head Russel Norman surrendered his speaking slot at an EPA conference to student climate activist Sorcha Carr, who told the EPA exactly what she thought of them. It was a bold move, which confronted both regulators and polluters (or, as the EPA calls them, "stakeholders") with the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • NZ First’s dodgy loans
    The core principle supposedly underlying New Zealand's electoral finance regime is transparency: parties can accept large donations from rich people wanting to buy policy, but only if they tell the public they've been bought. Most parties abide by this, so we know that TOP was wholly-owned by Gareth Morgan, and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Member’s Day: The choice on End of Life Choice
    Today is a Member's Day, probably the second-to-last one of the year, and its a big one, with the Third Reading of David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill. last Member's Day it was reported back from committee, after MPs voted narrowly to make it subject to a (rules TBA) ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • How growth in population and consumption drives planetary change
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz The growth of the human population over the last 70 ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • The disappearing Women …
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In her excellent oral submission to the Abortion reform select committee on 31st October on behalf of Otago University’s Department of Public Health, historian and public health researcher Hera Cook stated: “We would ask that the committee not use the term ‘pregnant persons’ and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • “A Passage to India”: enduring art in changing times
    by Don Franks In 1957, E M Forster wrote, of his greatest work: “The India described in ‘A Passage to India’ no longer exists either politically or socially. Change had begun even at the time the book was published ( 1924) and during the following quarter of a century it ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Contemptuous
    The Referendums Framework Bill was due back from select committee today. But there's no report on it. Instead, the bill has been bounced back to the House under Standing order 29593) because the Committee didn't bother to produce one. They probably tried. But given the membership of the committee (which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Zero Carbon: It’s not just a good idea, it’s the law
    Two years into New Zealand’s Labour-led government, the long-delayed Zero Carbon Bill became law on 7 November. Passed essentially unanimously, the lengthy public debates and political manoeuvring faded away until the final passage was even anticlimactic: Flipping through the @nzstuff @DomPost I was starting to wonder if I’d dreamt ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • Climate Change: What happens next?
    Now the Zero Carbon Bill is law, what's next? Obviously, the ETS changes currently before select committee are going to be the next battleground. But we're also going to get a good idea of where we're going, and if the progress the Zero Carbon Act promises is good enough, during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Climate change will fuel bush fires
    Grant Pearce The effects of the current Australian bushfires in New South Wales and Queensland (and also again in California) are devastating and far-reaching. To date, the fires have resulted in several lives being lost and many homes and properties destroyed. Here in New Zealand, the impacts have been only ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • Participation rates
    A passing comment in a post the other day about the labour force participation rates of older people prompted me to pull down the fuller data and see what we could see about various participation rates over the decades since the HLFS began in 1986.   As it happens, the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Reddell
    4 days ago
  • Not So Much “OK Boomer” As “OK Ruling Class”.
    Distract And Divert: The rise of what we have come to call “Identity Politics” represents the ideological manifestation of the ruling class’s objective need to destroy class politics, and of the middle-class’s subjective need to justify their participation in the process.THE RELIEF of the ruling class can only be imagined. ...
    4 days ago
  • Asking for it …
    "I saw a newspaper picture,From the political campaignA woman was kissing a child,Who was obviously in pain.She spills with compassion,As that young child'sFace in her hands she gripsCan you imagine all that greed and avariceComing down on that child's lips?" ...
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand’s Poor Pandemic Preparedness According to the Global Health Security Index
    Dr Matt Boyd, Prof Michael Baker, Prof Nick Wilson The Global Health Security Index which considers pandemic threats has just been published. Unfortunately, NZ scores approximately half marks (54/100), coming in 35th in the world rankings – far behind Australia. This poor result suggests that the NZ Government needs to ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change: Thank Winston
    The Zero Carbon Act is inadequate, with a weak methane target designed to give farmers a free ride. But it turns out it could have been worse: Climate Change Minister James Shaw was so desperate to get National on board, he wanted to gut that target, and leave it in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Illicit markets and Bali Booze
    The Herald reprints an Australian story on a couple of tragic deaths in Bali from drinking cocktails that had methanol in them.  The story argues that methanol is likely the result of home distillation. But what the young tourists were experiencing was far from a hangover. They’d consumed a toxic cocktail ...
    SciBlogsBy Eric Crampton
    5 days ago
  • This is not what armed police are for
    Last month, the police announced a trial of specialist roaming armed units, which would drive round (poor, brown) areas in armoured SUVs, armed to the teeth. When they announced the trial, they told us it was about having armed police "ready to attend major incidents at any time if needed". ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Spain’s failed electoral gamble
    Spain went to the polls today in the second elections this year, after the Socialists (who had come to power in a confidence vote, then gone to the polls in April) rejected the offer of a coalition with the left-wing PoDemos, and instead decided to gamble n a better outcome ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • The astroturf party
    National has finally rolled out its "BlueGreen" astroturf party, fronted by an array of former nats and people who were dumped by the Greens for not being Green enough. Its initial pitch is described by Stuff as "very business-friendly", and its priorities are what you'd expect: conservation, predator-free funding, a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • How to cheat at university
    A couple of days ago I attended (and spoke at) the University of Waikato’s “LearnFest” event. There were lots of talks and sessions on very diverse aspects of teaching, mostly at tertiary level. One was by Myra Williamson from Te Piringa Faculty of Law here at Waikato, on Contract Cheating ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    5 days ago
  • How NZ was put on world maps using a transit of Mercury
    There will be a transit of Mercury – the planet Mercury will pass across the face of the Sun – taking place at sunrise in New Zealand on Tuesday, 12th November. It was by observing such an event 250 years ago that James Cook and his scientist colleagues were able ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • Georgina Beyer: We need to be able to talk without being offended
    Since becoming the world’s first openly transexual mayor and member of parliament, Georgina Beyer has been recognised as a trailblazer for trans rights. Daphna Whitmore talks with her about where she sees the current trans movement We start out talking about legislation the government put on hold that would have ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • The anti-fluoride brigade won’t be erecting billboards about this study
    If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ...
    6 days ago
  • Chosen To Rule? What Sort Of Christian Is Chris Luxon?
    National Messiah? Chris Luxon identifies himself as an evangelical Christian. If he is genuine in this self-characterisation, then he will take every opportunity his public office provides to proselytise on behalf of his faith. He will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices he believes to be ...
    6 days ago
  • War of the worms
    I'm going to make a Reckless Prediction™ that the Tories have 'topped out' in the 'poll of polls' / Britain Elects multipoll tracker at about 38%, and in the next week we will start to see Labour creep up on them.In fact, we might just be seeing the start of ...
    6 days ago
  • Marvelly shows us how to be a feminist without feminism
    by The Council of Disobedient Women Lizzie Marvelly: “I may have missed this… has @afterellen gone all terf-y? Or am I reading something incorrectly? “ https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly/status/1191840059105742849 After Ellen is a lesbian website that is unashamedly pro-lesbian, as you’d expect. So why is Ms Marvelly so bothered about lesbians having their ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Out of the past – Tories to revive racist laws from the 16th century
    Did you know there once was a time when it was illegal to be a gypsy (aka Romani) in Britain?That was between 1530, when the Egyptians Act was passed, and 1856, when it was repealed.Amongst other things, the act forbade the entry of 'Egyptians' into England, ordered those already there ...
    1 week ago
  • 1000 of these now
    Some days I sit and think, “what will I write…?” What do you say when you get to 1000 posts? Maybe you just start where you are, diverge to where this all began, then offer a collection of reader’s favourite posts, and a few of your own? (And throw in ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • Has Shane Jones Just Saved NZ First?
    Counter-Puncher: The “activists” and “radicals” (his own words) from the Indian community who took such strong exception to Shane Jones’ remarks about Immigration NZ’s treatment of arranged marriages, may end up bitterly regretting their intervention. Jones is not the sort of person who turns the other cheek to his critics.SHANE ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: As predicted
    Yesterday, when National voted for the Zero Carbon Bill, I predicted they'd gut it the moment they regained power, just as they had done to the ETS. And indeed, they have explicitly promised to do exactly that within their first hundred days in office. What would their amendments do? Abandon ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let this never be forgot
    In the spirit of Remember, remember the fifth of November, let's keep this in mind FOREVER.
    Oh dear. Extraordinary interview on PM with Andrew Bridgen and @EvanHD just now. Bridgen was defending Jacob Rees Mogg’s Grenfell comments. Evan asked him if JRM had meant to say he would have left ...
    1 week ago
  • Too Late To Change Capitalism’s Flightpath?
    Collision Course? In conditions of ideological white-out, the international bankers’ “Woop-Woop! Pull Up!” warning may have come too late to save global capitalism.WHAT DOES IT MEAN when international bankers are more willing to embrace radical solutions than our politicians and their electors? At both the International Monetary Fund and the ...
    1 week ago
  • Whooping cough vaccine works well despite its imperfections
    Pertussis (whooping cough) is a conundrum. It is a disease that was described hundreds of years ago and the bacteria that causes it (Bordetella pertussis) isolated in 1906. We have had vaccines for about 80 years but this disease is defiant in the face of human immunity. I wanted to ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Passed
    The Zero Carbon Bill has just passed its third reading, uanimously. In the end, National supported it - but we all know they'll turn around and gut it the moment they regain power. Meanwhile, I guess ACT's David Seymour didn't even bother to show up. I am on record as ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Retailing of vaping products – New NZ Research
    Dr Lindsay Robertson, Dr Jerram Bateman, Professor Janet Hoek Members of the public health community hold divergent views on how access to vaping products or electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) products should be arranged. Some believe ENDS should be as widely available as smoked tobacco and argue for liberal ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Justice for Bomber
    When the Police were trying to cover up for the National Party over Dirty Politics, they went all-in with their abuses of power. They illegally search Nicky Hager's house, violating his journalistic privilege and invading his privacy. They unlawfully acquired Hager's bank records. They did the same to left-wing blogger ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Britain’s climate tyranny was unlawful
    Last month, in response to a wave of protests by Extinction Rebellion, the British government purported to ban their protests from the whole of London. It was a significant interference with the freedoms of expression and assembly, and another sign of the country's decline into tyranny. But now, a court ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • More crime from the spies
    Last year, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security reported on significant problems with the intelligence warrant system. While they were unwilling to declare any warrant "irregular" (meaning unlawful) due to the recent law change, they were also not willing to give the system a clean bill of health. Now, they've ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Vaccination, compulsion, and paternalism for the lower orders
    The National Party has come out in support of encouraging greater vaccination uptake. But it sure isn’t the way I’d do it. National’s suggested docking the benefits of those on benefit whose kids aren’t keeping up with their vaccinations. Some in National have suggested extending that to payments under Working ...
    SciBlogsBy Eric Crampton
    1 week ago
  • Global Protests Rage On: But Slogans Are Not Plans.
    Feeding The Flames: It is simply not enough to demand an end to “corruption”, or “inequality”, or the overbearing influence of the authorities in Beijing. These are just “lowest common denominator” demands: the sort of slogans that pull people onto the streets. They are not a plan.WHERE’S THE PLAN? Across ...
    1 week ago
  • 11,000 employed under Labour
    The labour market statistics have been released, and unemployment has risen to 4.2%. There are 115,000 unemployed - 11,000 fewer than when Labour took office. In that time the minimum wage has gone up by $2 an hour, which shows that the right's fears about increases causing unemployment are simply ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Boycott this democratic fraud
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has called for submissions on Andrew Little's tyrannical Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. Normally I encourage participation in the democratic process. I am not doing so in this case. Instead, I encourage all of you to boycott this submissions process, and to post ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Why Mars is cold despite an atmosphere of mostly carbon dioxide
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz If tiny concentrations of carbon dioxide can hold enough heat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Ban private jets
    Aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, and within it, one of the fastest sources is elite travel: billionaires flitting around the world in their private jets, spewing excessive pollution into the atmosphere just so they can avoid mixing with us dirty peasants. But in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Untold Suffering
    That's what we face if we don't stop climate change, according to a warning from 11,000 scientists:The world’s people face “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless there are major transformations to global society, according to a stark warning from more than 11,000 scientists. “We declare clearly and unequivocally ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The left and violent misogyny
    by Phil Duncan Here’s just a few of the kind of threats issued day in and day out against gender-critical women – feminists, marxists, etc – overwhelmingly by MEN (albeit men identifying as women). “Kill all Terfs”. “Shoot a Terf today”. “All terfs deserve to be shot in the head”. ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Imperialism and the iPhone
    This is the third of the synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016). The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Unlike the humble cup of coffee and t-shirt that we looked at in ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The freshwater mussel housing crisis: eviction by invasive weeds?
    Tom Moore Traditionally a food source and cutting tool, freshwater mussels/kākahi are now widely valued as water filters that help clean our waterbodies and maintain ecosystem health throughout Aotearoa. The improvement they provide in water quality can make it easier for other animals to live in streams and rivers, as ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Back it up Luxon: endorsing the destructive past is not actually the way forward
    And to think he gave all the potential goodwill away with that moronic, cult-like statement (repeated ad nauseam by many National hardliners) that Key is quite simply “the greatest PM we ever had”… Installation complete: this was nothing ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Good riddance
    National MP and former Conservation Minister Maggie Barry will not seek re-election next year. Good riddance. Because in case anyone has forgotten, barry is a bullying thug who terrorised both public servants and fellow MPs. She is one of the people who makes Parliament a toxic workplace, and our country ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: D-Day
    The Zero Carbon Bill is back in the House today for its second reading. While this isn't the final stage, its still effectively D-Day for the bill. Because today, at around 5pm, is when we're going to find out if it has a majority, whether National will support it or ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Winston is right
    Winston Peters is in court today, suing a bunch of former Minister and civil servants over their pre-election leak of his superannuation repayment. He's characterised the leak as malicious, and said that it is repugnant that his information was passed on to Ministers to use for political advantage. And he's ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Media impartiality
    Sky's economics editor, Ed Conway has posted a Twitter thread responding to a claim that - as far as I can see - Labour never made:
    Are NHS operation cancellations at an all-time high? That's the impression you might have been left with if you read this story from the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Finish what’s on your plate
    Murray Cox Do I have to finish my favourite genome? That’s an often-asked question. Geneticists generally strive to produce high-quality genomes that sequence every last gene, making full use of the state-of-the-art technologies coming on stream. Sequencing DNA means determining the order of the four chemical building blocks – called ...
    SciBlogsBy Genomics Aotearoa
    2 weeks ago
  • Gainful Employment: A Cautionary Tale.
    Transformative Politics: The idea is to turn each recipient into an unwitting accomplice in their own transformation. From interested observer to hyped-up activist, sharing our messages promiscuously with ‘friends’. You’ll be part of an ever-expanding circulatory system, Jennifer, for the ideas that will win us the election.”JENNIFER SKITTERED her chair ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand should not fund bigotry
    Two years ago, the Cook Islands government announced that it was planning to join the civilised world and decriminalise consensual homosexual sex between men. Now, they've reversed their position, and decided to criminalise lesbians into the bargain:Two years ago, in a step welcomed by many people including the gay and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • More tyranny in Australia
    The boycott is a fundamental tool of protest. By choosing who we buy from, we can send a message, and hopefully change corporate behaviour. Historically, boycotts have been effective, for example over apartheid in South Africa and Israel, in forcing divestment from Myanmar, and in ending bus segregation in the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Submission for rationality and science against the assaults of pre-modernism and post-modernism
    Jan Rivers spoke at the Abortion Legislation Select Committee in favour of the bill, but in opposition to calls from other submitters to exchange the word ‘woman’ for ‘person’ throughout the bill. Jan is a supporter of the feminist group Speak Up For Women and has recently written an excellent ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • My loyal readership of … Cam girls and Pornbots?
    I checked my traffic stats:I was intrigued by 'monica29' - who was this very dedicated individual?  I clicked on the link, to be greeted with ...Ho, hum.Spreadin' the word, spreadin' the word.  Doesn't matter who hears it, as long as it gets out there. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Worth repeating forever
    There have been three polls since the election was announced, and I will shamelessly steal YouGov / UK Polling Report's Anthony Wells' summary of them:Survation – CON 34%, LAB 26%, LDEM 19%, BREX 12%, GRN 1% Ipsos MORI – CON 41%, LAB 24%, LDEM 20%, BREX 7%, GRN 3% YouGov ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Kiwis to have their say on End of Life Choice
    Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First backs the public to decide on the End of Life Choice Bill via a referendum at the 2020 General Election. The Bill, with New Zealand First’s referendum provision incorporated, passed its final reading in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for ...
    2 days ago
  • Addressing miscarriages of justice
    Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Justice New Zealand First is proud that a key Coalition Agreement commitment which will provide for a more transparent and effective criminal justice system has been realised. Legislation to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission, an independent body focused on identifying and responding to possible miscarriages of ...
    3 days ago
  • Week That Was: Historic action on climate change
    "Today we have made a choice that will leave a legacy... I hope that means that future generations will see that we, in New Zealand, were on the right side of history." - Jacinda Ardern, Third Reading of the Zero Carbon Bill ...
    1 week ago
  • Tax-free deployments for Kiwi troops
    Darroch Ball, New Zealand First List MP A Member’s bill has been proposed that would provide income tax exemptions for all New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel while on operational deployment overseas. The Income Tax (Exemption for Salary or Wages of NZDF Members on Active Deployment) Amendment Bill proposed by New Zealand First ...
    1 week ago
  • A balanced Zero Carbon Bill passed
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have brought common sense to the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading in Parliament today. Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters says months of hard work went into negotiating a balanced ...
    1 week ago
  • Paramedics’ status to be recognised
    Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First has listened to calls to recognise paramedics as registered health professionals under the Health Practitioners’ Competence Assurance Act (the Act). Today, the Coalition Government announced plans for paramedics to be registered as health practitioners under the Act, and the establishment of a ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Week That Was: 2,000 teachers in two years
    We began the week by commemorating the New Zealand Wars and celebrating a major increase in the number of teachers. Then, we were busy supporting offenders into work and getting our rail back on track after years of underinvestment. And that's just the start! ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Winning an election one conversation at a time
    In October I was sworn in as the Mayor of Lower Hutt. It’s the privilege of my life to serve Hutt people as their Mayor. There is something really special to be able to serve the community where I was raised, and where I live.   ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Closer cooperation with Korean horse racing industry
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Racing Racing Minister Winston Peters met with Korea Racing Authority Chairperson Nak Soon Kim in Seoul today to discuss closer cooperation between the New Zealand and Korean horse racing industries. As part of the visit to the Seoul Racecourse, Mr Peters witnessed ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Otago to lead digital creativity
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10 million to establish Otago as the centre of New Zealand’s creative digital industry over the next ten years, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “The initiative will bring us closer to the vision of ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Young Otago students encouraged to take on forestry careers
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)’s skills and employment programme will help young Otago people into long-term forestry careers, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. Te Ara Mahi will invest $63,000 in the 2020 school year to support eight 17 and 18 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • PGF backing Dunedin’s waterfront ambitions
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will support local plans to revitalise and stimulate economic development opportunities in Otago, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The four Regional Economic Development Ministers have approved an in-principle investment of $19.9 million towards the region’s ...
    2 weeks ago
  • M. Bovis eradication progress welcomed
    Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First is pleased to have received the Technical Advisory Group (TAG) report on the Coalition Government’s Mycoplasma bovis eradication efforts, which shows significant progress in the fight against the disease. New Zealand First Spokesperson for Primary Industries, Mark Patterson, says the report’s findings ...
    2 weeks ago
  • PGF boosts Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sector
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon David Parker, Minister for Trade and Export Growth The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing to support economic growth opportunities for Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sectors, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Trade and Export Minister David Parker announced today. Almost $20 million ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Minister Peters discusses Pacific challenges and denuclearisation in Seoul
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