web analytics

The Cindy effect

Written By: - Date published: 6:17 am, October 1st, 2009 - 67 comments
Categories: national/act government - Tags:

National in opposition irresponsibly fanned the flames of all kinds of unrest, from the divisive Iwi / Kiwi campaign, to the nanny state ranting and Section 59 stirring, to the cynical “Democracy Under Attack” EFA nonsense. National made it their mission to get people scared and angry. And for what? History suggests that they would have won the 2008 election anyway. But National played the fear and anger game, and so those scared and angry people are out there. In droves. And now they’re turning their anger on National.

Because National in government can’t continue to be be so irresponsible. Let’s give credit where it’s due, in some respects National are getting it right. On the surface at least they have moved on from Iwi / Kiwi. They are doing a fair bit of nanny stating of their own (because sometimes it’s needed). They have stood firm on the Section 59 reform (bravo!). They have released an EFA that acknowledges that there was really little wrong with Labour’s version, and they seem (thus far at least) to be committed to an EFA process that is better managed than Labour’s was. In short, National have done a massive flip-flop on every single one of their lines in opposition.

So what becomes of the broken hearted? What happens to that scared and angry constituency that National helped create? Seems to me they fall into two general categories. First, the seriously fringe – the hard core racists and Section 59 opponents and the serious EFA loons. They’re as mad as hell and they’re not going to take it any more! But where do they go politically? ACT isn’t picking up in the polls. I don’t think Winston can make it back. Will we see the emergence of a new political party to represent the terminally angry?

The second group is more straightforward. The reasonable people who believed the dishonest National / Herald propaganda war — and are now working out that they’ve been duped. One of them, Cindy from Titirangi, was quoted in a post here yesterday (from The Herald, Your Views):

I feel misled by this govt and this newspaper last year telling us readers that the Electoral Finance Act would take away our freedom, rubbish. I believed them at the time athough it was really confusing.That we were being denied our freedom to participate in democracy by allowing this law. Lies!

The worst part of that is that this newspaper which is supposed to be impartial was supporting National and Act’s spin in their editorials and stories. If we can’t trust the media, and we can’t trust politicians like this Govt with a finance minister who can’t tell the truth, who in heaven’s name can we trust?

Cindy was expecting something very different from the National government that she voted for. In an earlier Your Views she wrote re Bill English:

WELLINGTON! This makes me mad. He’s and the Prime Minister John Key, I no longer can respect the Prime Minister after the way he sticks up for this man’s blatant dishonesty. Remember who voted you in! …

He’s settled in Wellington hasn’t he for many years, his kids live there, his wife lives there, she has a GP practice. The gall of a man who owns a home valued at 1.2 million to keep milking more and more money from us at a time like this. I loathe this government and I could kick myself for voting them in.

How many angry Cindys are there out there, working out that they’ve been duped? These people have an obvious place to go, back to Labour or the Greens, and we may have seen this movement starting in the most recent polling (National down 5, Labour up 4). If it turns out that Labour lead the next government, then the Cindy effect will have been a big part of the victory. People don’t like being lied to. I have to admit that I would find it karmicly pleasing if all National’s dishonest propaganda antics in opposition achieved was to set them up as a one term government….

67 comments on “The Cindy effect”

  1. lprent 1

    The blatantly dishonest approach to political debate run by NACT for the last few terms also got people like me and many of the writers on this site to get active in the same manner here. It was a politically short-sighted strategy that we’re turning on the right.

    Labour may not want to go there, which is generally why Goff is reasonably conciliatory at the political side. However I have no such inhibitions and nor do many people in the broad left. We’ll have fun slicing and dicing this government highlighting its flaws, stupidities, and outright incompetences. The objective is to make it clear that using these types of dishonest tactics so beloved of political operators like Joyce, McCully and Crosby-Textor are a negative sum game over the longer term.

    Making it clear to the more reasonable politicians how destructive these tactics are to their objectives will help make political debate in NZ more constructive. The best way of getting that across is to perform the same tactics on them, except more intensively and better. Having some collateral damage on relatively undeserving targets is a good teaching experience.

    Beside these pompous arrogant fools we have in government are such easy targets. Now about Joyce…..

    • r0b 1.1

      The blatantly dishonest approach to political debate run by NACT for the last few terms also got people like me and many of the writers on this site to get active in the same manner here.

      Agreed, me too, with one important clarification of phrasing (I hope!). Its not the “same” manner here – a dishonest approach – I would not support that. I’m happy use the same tactics – “slicing and dicing this government highlighting its flaws, stupidities, and outright incompetences”. But not dishonestly. NACT are a target rich environment even keeping it completely honest.

      If The Standard ever starts running Iwi / Kiwi or spreading Section 59 anger or the like then we will have become the dark side, and I’ll be gone. We need to keep it honest and not make the same mistakes as NACT! I’m sure that this is what you meant Lynn, but your comment conflated head on tactics and dishonest tactics, and I want to adopt one without the other.

      • lprent 1.1.1

        Yep. You’re correct, I accidently conflated the NACT’s dishonest approach with the ‘no mercy’ tactics.

        Just like all of those pleas about Bill just doing ripping us off for his family are currently falling on my deaf ears. It is irrelevant because whiners can always find excuses. Where I’d have once made allowances for human frailties, the NACT campaigns have taught me not to bother. Just go for the jugular and keep squeezing.

        It is only after the NACT politico’s realize that the type of political campaign they have run for the last few years is stupid that we can restore some semblance of humanity to the political system. That will be when this lot are turfed out as the most reviled government since their last one – but this time not on policy question – but on their depth of stupid behavior.

  2. Tim Ellis 2

    Good for you r0b. If you repeat inaccuracies long enough, then the decreasing number of people who still read the standard might believe them.

    • rocky 2.1

      Yet you’re still here… 😉

    • lprent 2.2

      Are you hoping that leaving a line about inaccuracies enough you’ll somehow make it true? Yeah right…

      I spend a significant amount of time constraining things like the damn spambots and spiders from sucking up all of the available processing. Looks like I succeeded in early september. The system has been really stable since then.

      The number of ‘people’ reading the site just keeps rising at a rather constant overall rate. Has done so ever since the usual xmas/new year drop. It passed the November 2008 human numbers earlier this year.

      Of course if we reported the same way as some of the sites around, our ‘ranking’ would look a whole lot different. I’d love to look at the raw numbers because I’m sure that many are reporting machine entities.

  3. Hilary 3

    The Cindys of NZ are also those sort of people likely to take a night school class, or employed as school support staff, and never expected that attacks on these would be part of the Government’s plans.

    • gargoyle 3.1

      Really ?

      I thought the Cindy’s of this world were the same people who wrote on sites like this under different pseudonyms to try and score a political point.

      • felix 3.1.1

        Has everyone met gargoyle? He used to be bilbo, before that hs, and god knows what else in between.

  4. Adrian 4

    With a quietly reasoned letter yesterday(unusual for me) I got the “I think I didn’t know” story about the illiterate Tolley to the notice of the local paper and on to page 2. Good on them, particularly on such a big sad story day, considering that they had missed it on their own associated Stuff site,which incidentally removed the story later in the day from the site( interference, I wonder), it was, by the way lead and banner in The Chch Press. It can be done, opinion will change bit by bit, just bring the the stupidity to the notice of the local papers which are still where most people get their political info. NZers don’t like to admit they have been sold a pup,it’s like the bloke who buys a second hand car his mates told him not to, he’ll defend it for ages against all reason and then something snaps, he drains the oil, jacks up the back wheels, puts sugar in the tank, several bricks on the accelerator, fires up the barby, gets a few beers and waits for it to blow. It’s going to happen to NACT, it’s going to be swift and vicious and fun.

  5. illuminatedtiger 5

    Nice to see there are still some thinking individuals among those that National think of as their “punters”.

  6. Tom Semmens 6

    Is Cindy Waitakere woman personified?

  7. Herodotus 7

    For voters to return to labour, there has to be some REAL evidence that we are not getting just the same. From what has been stated from Labour, there is nothing new.
    NZ I believe is looking for a leader/party to enable NZ to move forward. From comments and behaviour I have not seen anything that will enable individuals to aspire comming from Labour.
    So from someone who has voted for “both” sides of the spectrum I am not looking for a negative campaign. I accept that there has to be some of this strategy to undermine Nats but where is and real constructive, tangable comments from Labour?

    • r0b 7.1

      Labour just lost an election, and the public (in general) is not yet listening to them or looking for an alternative. So Labour aren’t announcing much, or doing much in public. But of course you’ll see more of this as time goes by.

      You can, however, already see a REAL difference clearly. Labour is a constructive and honest opposition. It isn’t exploiting the angry s59 crowd. It is offering to work constructively with the government on foreshore and seabed, electoral reform / EFA, and carbon trading / ETS.

      An honest and constructive opposition is a REAL difference for this country, and next time round it will be nice to have an honest and constructive government.

      • Daveski 7.1.1

        I agree with your implication that the last Labour government was neither honest nor constructive.

        I also agree that people aren’t listening and much to our mutual surprise it hasn’t been the complete hospital pass that we expected being in Govt to be given the dire economic predictions.

        However, the rest of your general comments are simply Labour spin. Nothing has changed within Labour – same old last century leadership.

        Likewise, the more the Standard writers bad the PM, the more his popularity appears to increase. It’s increasingly clear that the accepted view here is out of touch with the public reality.

        I have no doubt that National is still underperforming in areas. That criticism is completely valid. But I don’t see any groundswell of people heading back to Labour nor a genuine acknowledgement that Labour need to do more than put their leader on a motorbike. Mind you, Cindy most likely has a thing for bikies!

        • r0b 7.1.1.1

          I agree with your implication that the last Labour government was neither honest nor constructive.

          I appreciate that we all take different things from what we read, Daveski, but I think you’re stretching to drag that “implication” from what I wrote.

          It’s increasingly clear that the accepted view here is out of touch with the public reality.

          There’s no such thing as one agreed public reality. The view here is a view of a good chunk, and possibly a growing chunk, of public opinion.

        • lprent 7.1.1.2

          He implied nothing of the sort… What he said was that national were a dishonest and destructive opposition. Care to try and show where they did anything that was constructive?

          They are carrying on in the same vein in government. So far it appears that this government doesn’t want to even listen to anything apart from their donors. They have been noticeable for their anti-democratic habit of excessively using urgency. Where there have been select committees to listen to submissions, they have been noticeable that they ignore most of them.

          Tell me – do you defend those actions?

          On the economy, they haven’t done ANYTHING to date apart from increasing deficits by stupid tax-cuts. There have been NO real budget cuts. Even their aborted second round tax-cuts were for October. So on behalf of Cullen, I accept your generous accolade of his stewardship of the economy. To date his actions in 2008 are still guiding the economic situation in so far as it can be controlled from NZ

          • Daveski 7.1.1.2.1

            Where I have been largely consistent is that National’s lack of any response has been effective at least at a macro level. I’m not sure if this was planned or not – I must admit to some amazement of the lack of any coherent policy or actions in areas directly affecting me.

            Your view of Cullen is rose tinted. While he did some good, he also allowed the public service to spiral upwards out of kilter with the growth in the economy. As pointed out elsewhere the reduction in debt was only possible given the boom and indeed the debt burden has moved from the public to private sector. Under the same good steward, we went into recession before the rest of the world.

            Still, the ongoing honeymoon (altho starting to wane) does raise questions as to why National is perceived to being a good job. To put it blunt, I think the public had had a gutsful of your lot and wanted change. It’s neither logical or objective and must piss you off no end but that is the most logical explanation. Which means of course that Labour either has to hope that National implodes spectacularly or Labour is able to change its spots.

  8. Tom Semmens 8

    Herodotus: Labour under Clark shook off the revolution, and achieved what was possible to ameloriate the worst of the excesses of neo-liberalism. All the while National has remained bankrupt of new ideas – just by the way, this why I still believe National will be a one term government. Key isn’t growing into the job and his government has at its heart a policy vacuum of a party paralysed between a neo-liberal faction and a pragmatic power at all costs faction. One knows the other is wildly unpopular with the public, whilst the other thinks it’s opponent is made up of intellectual lightweights. Both assesssments are accurate. Into this policy vacuum is stepping a revanchist Treasury, whose hardline extremism will destroy National electorally. Anyway, I see signs that Labour is already looking at more serious structural changes to the economic mix and we might just see some serious proposals for change from them before the next election that will be popular with an exasperated electorate.

  9. Herodotus 9

    For labour to be strong again AND act for the best interests of NZ, there needs a lesson to be learnt. A 3 year wait with the old guard in my mind is not in our countries best interest.
    The good that occurred with labour was diminished by the last 3-4 years damage caused by a tired govt. (Tireness was caused from no new energy being brought in, the same has happened with Nats previously and many other regeimes thoughtout the world)
    NZ is best served with a strong govt & strong opposition both working in their own way to progressing NZ. I have not seen this YET in my voting history.

    • r0b 9.1

      For labour to be strong again AND act for the best interests of NZ, there needs a lesson to be learnt.

      Labour have changed their leadership, taken in new talent, and broken with the past. The lessons have been learnt.

      A 3 year wait with the old guard in my mind is not in our countries best interest

      If you are suggesting another 3 years of NACT instead then I put it to you that that is a far worse outcome for NZ.

      • Herodotus 9.1.1

        One major motivation of the last govt was to promote NZ within the OCED ranks, I notice that this was dropped in the last commentary within the budget. Over the last 3 years of labour there was nothing to signal a change in the countries progress. Like the current govt, labour in ’99 lead a charge re a Knowledge economy, great sentiment but nothing tangable followed. We had a great opportunity with the windful of funds flowing into govt but this potential was not able to be translated into reality. I believe that this occurred because other agendas superseeded what was best for the country.

        • r0b 9.1.1.1

          One major motivation of the last govt was to promote NZ within the OCED ranks,

          Do you suppose NACT have the same motivation?

          Knowledge economy, great sentiment but nothing tangable followed.

          I quite agree, it was poorly done.

          We had a great opportunity with the windful of funds flowing into govt but this potential was not able to be translated into reality.

          Yes there was opportunity, and yes it was translated into reality. We paid off huge amounts of overseas debt, leaving the country well positioned to ride out the current crisis. That’s a huge outcome! We started saving for the future with KiwiSaver and Cullen fund. We started to address our abysmal childhood poverty stats, with WFF lifting children and families. All of these are huge, the opportunities were by no means wasted.

          I believe that this occurred because other agendas superseeded what was best for the country.

          Ahh – “other agendas” eh. Right, sorry, as you were then.

          • Herodotus 9.1.1.1.1

            Yes govt debt did reduce, but all that happened was that private debt increased at a greater level. For many of us living in the suberbs, I found that taxes both direct and indirect happened. tax creep, power coys price gouging then paying dividends BACK to the govt, increases in ACC to name a few.

      • Tim Ellis 9.1.2

        That’s right r0b, Labour have changed their leadership. They got rid of a leader and co-leader who were first elected during the Muldoon years for a leader and co-leader who were first elected… during the Muldoon years. I wouldn’t call that renewal.

        If the lessons have been learnt it doesn’t explain why the Labour Party is still trailing National in the polls by twenty percent.

        • r0b 9.1.2.1

          If the lessons have been learnt it doesn’t explain why the Labour Party is still trailing National in the polls by twenty percent.

          Oh don’t be dim Tim. It doesn’t work like a light switch, it takes time for public opinion to move. But once it moves it acquires quite a bit of momentum…

          • Tim Ellis 9.1.2.1.1

            I’ve never known a light switch to take a year to turn on r0b. I’ve also never known the room to get darker when you flick the switch.

            There has been one poll so far showing an improvement in Labour’s fortunes. It is still a long way behind where it was at the 2008 election. A bit early to start claiming there’s momentum.

            • bill brown 9.1.2.1.1.1

              Tim,

              Doesn’t is a contraction of does not.

            • felix 9.1.2.1.1.2

              Indeed bb. Oh Timmy, what a ‘wit you are.

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox 9.1.2.1.1.3

              Not as far as you may think.

              Labour plus Greens in last poll was over 40%. Another 5 or 6 % both ways would bring Nat/ACT and Labour/Greens (assumeing they get their 5%) quite close together- something for the Maori Party to have to think about

      • Swampy 9.1.3

        The Labour leader is yesterday’s man, a core part of two previous Labour governments that fell out of favour. He cannot seriously be considered renewal. Nor can most of the front bench people who are the same people who helped carry Labour to election loss last year.

  10. HitchensFan 10

    Oh Man, I so hope you guys are right. Maybe “Cindy” represents all those Kiwis who voted naively “for a change” without thinking about a change from what to what and are now realising their error……please, please, please let this pack of fools be a One Term Government……

  11. Ianmac 11

    What karma. The day that John Key wiped Winston from any possible connection by saying that he would not tolerate anything but the highest standards while he was the leader, I thought he would regret those words. Worth? English? It also seemed to me as writers above say once the “mob” get a taste for vocal democracy they will not stop at the closing of an election. Watch this space! But maybe more involvement is better than apathy, but who is to say what is good/bad involvement?

  12. felix 12

    And not even a tax cut to dull the sting of betrayal.

  13. Blue 13

    I’ve always found it interesting how insane things got last year. I don’t think people even understood why they were angry half the time. It was hard to pin down exactly what was so terribly, horribly world-endingly awful about the EFA but people turned up in droves with tape over their mouths in public places. Ditto Winston – ask the average punter exactly what the seedy, no-good, very bad deed he was supposed to have done was and I don’t think many would know. But they got exercised about ‘corruption’ and the like nonetheless.

    Now that National is in government and having to take the tough decisions, keep their support parties happy and having their every move scrutinised in a way they weren’t in Opposition, the tables are turning somewhat.

    When the public are ready to listen again, I hope Labour are ready, because there are a lot of issues that seriously need addressing. I hope they won’t keep getting bogged down in rehashing the issues of the last Labour Government. I want to see some new, big, bold ideas.

    • Rob 13.1

      With Winston, obviously the very visibly and public lying he did , to the extent of holding up signs saying NO. Is not that important to you. It amazes me that you do not get this and it worries me that you do not think it is important.

      • Blue 13.1.1

        Well, I’m glad you know what’s going on inside Winston’s mind. I suppose somebody has to.

        Am I concerned that a donation was given to a small-fish political party, but not declared and then the leader of said party said he didn’t know anything about it?

        Actually, no. I think there are far more important things to be worried about.

        Wow, how out of touch am I?

  14. r0b 14

    people turned up in droves with tape over their mouths in public places.

    I wouldn’t say “droves” exactly. Those protests were astroturf, there was never a large turnout…

  15. logie97 15

    “So from someone who has voted for “both’ sides of the spectrum…”

    Don’t you love these individuals who try to claim the moral high ground. Float around the traps like Peter Dunne – aren’t I sensible.
    Sit in the middle of politics and think only about what’s in it for them. No political philosophy.

    • Ianmac 15.1

      But people are like that. Follow to be part of the in-crowd. We all drink straight out of the bottle. (I don’t)
      We all have the right hemline. (I don’t.)
      We listen to the right music. (I don’t.)
      A friend of mine worked alongside some workers of a big business while he set up the Data system last October. His casual conversations with the workers left him staggered at how little they knew about politics yet they were still able to trot out the “lines.”

      • logie97 15.1.1

        … mmm Herod (otus) where have we encountered that name before. Was he the one who couldn’t quite make up his mind 2000 years ago and changed the path of history?

        • Herodotus 15.1.1.1

          He was better at recording that say Xenophon. But I am amazed how quickly and efficiently past events (evan those that happened quite recently) are either forgotten or “manipulted”. No one wants themselves to be judged by their past actions as that may indicate what they will do in the future. It also allows the finger to be pointed at others with immunity as top what they have done. The real scary thing for me is it is all self interest. (I will be generous here) little is done for the betterment of NZ and the vast majority of people who ARE struggling.

      • Rob 15.1.2

        It must be fantastic to be so intellectually superior than other people, look why dont you just make it easier for the “great unwashed” and vote for them.

        • Herodotus 15.1.2.1

          No one is superiour, perhaps if there was more listening then we may all learn from others. No one has the sole ownership of knowledge or wisdom. I get the impression that some think that they have, or listen to a select few i.e. preaching to the converted.
          Perhaps as a suggestion those in Wellington should get out and put them in a position to listen.

    • Herodotus 15.2

      logie97 not trying to take the moral high ground, that area of land is alread well over populated, and re politicial philosophy can you tell me of any party that is consistent in that. I believe that only philosophy followed is that of Niccolo Machiavelli.

  16. ak 16

    Blue: ……even understood why they were angry half the time.

    Heh – so true Blue: one of the great entertainments pre-election was to endure some ranting and follow with a gentle “so what exactly has this bitch done again, to make you hate her so much?” The sight of empty fury ricochetting inside empty vessels produced some delightful facials! “Why, she’s …ummmm…. welll….that car thing, – anyway, time for a change…”
    In more cruel moments: “So nothing solid then. Just a general hatred – gosh look at the time, have a nice day”.

    Good post r0b – the Cindy effect, love it. Yes, now that the euphoria of the ball has warn off, it’s dawning on Cindy and her ugly sisters that they really slopped the dripper – their prandsome hince is all tongue and no bung, and life in the scullery is about to get a lot grimmer….

  17. burt 17

    rOb

    Perhaps you could put your cards on the table, was the EFA good or was it bad. Yesterday you tried pitifully to prove you hadn’t supported it but it seems having failed in doing that you are going to take the position there was noting wrong with it and any opposition to it was purely National/ACT dishonesty and scare mongering about it.

    Ignoring for a moment the hypocrisy of National/ACT if they were to introduce an EFA substantively similar to the Labour EFA, would you consider it to be good legislation or bad legislation?

    • r0b 17.1

      Stalking me is becoming quite an obsession for you Burt. Don’t you have better things to do with your time?

      Yesterday you tried pitifully to prove you hadn’t supported it

      You’re a liar Burt. Yesterday you challenged me to supply any example of me criticising the EFA, and I supplied half a dozen. Of course I supported the EFA. The disgusting election rorts that National ran in 2005, the rorts that cost them the election and their leader Don Brash when the truth came out, they had to be stopped. The EFA wasn’t perfect by any means, but the job it tried to do needed doing.

      substantively similar to the Labour EFA, would you consider it to be good legislation or bad legislation?

      Good in most but not all respects.

      • Swampy 17.1.1

        Politics is a dirty business. There are a certain number of players in it, who for the most part skate very thin ice on a lake of hypocrisy as they accuse each other of one thing or another. Anyone who gets involved in politics has to take the rough with the smooth. You’ve chosen to have a political blog. Like all political blogs it is largely of disinterest to the general public. It merely serves to emphasise one side’s political campaign against the other. Dig deep enough and one finds that there is a lot that is not being said that materially changes the picture. I read a number of political blogs, just to keep myself informed to some degree about some of the major issues in politics. I wouldn’t use any of them as a credible source of what the public thinks or of news, the media does a much better job of filtering out the political white noise from the substance of what is really relevant.

    • burt 17.2

      I think you are the liar rOb, you supplied evidence that you had been critical of the initial drafting. No such criticism of the final Act or the process that was used to pass it, quite the opposite actually.

      I’ll ask again – shall I start adding links here where you defended the law and the process used to pass it?

      You have however half answered today’s question, you think the intent of the EFA was good and it was required. The intent is also debatable given the implications that some parts of the EFA appear to be solely to shut down dissent. Now you might think shutting down dissent was necessary when Labour was in govt but I doubt you would be so happy about it with Labour in opposition. Perhaps you could be clearer about what parts you though were good and what parts you might, under duress, concede were odorous.

      • r0b 17.2.1

        Burt your question was: Can you point me to any comments you made condemning the anti democratic nature of the EFB/EFA ?.

        I pointed you at half a dozen and I stopped when I got bored (it was after all 1:40am). You can whine all you like about it now, sure, but stop lying about what was asked and what was answered.

        I’ll ask again shall I start adding links here where you defended the law and the process used to pass it?

        Oh would you Burt? Yes please! I think that would be a great idea. Off you go Burty…

      • burt 17.2.2

        rOb

        Here are a few things to think about;

        In this thread ( http://www.thestandard.org.nz/nationals-campaign-to-muzzle-union-continues )

        talking about the use of urgency to pass the EFA

        Lots of bills get passed under urgency at the end of a year.

        OK, so National passing stuff under urgency at the end of the year will be just fine for you rOb? I’ve already seen a few comments about National using urgency (which was OK for RV and the EFA) – shall I link them here ?

        rOb spinning…

        The EFB is supported by an overwhelming majority of parties in parliament.

        And justifying a partisan approach

        Will the real John Key please stand up?

        and then a few comments later in that same thread

        The EFB represents an attempt to tighten up and modernise those laws. It’s not a fundamental constitutional change (like the introduction of MMP). It’s not an assault on free speech. It doesn’t selectively persecute any minority. It just tidies up existing rules that define the level playing field that is required for democracy.

        And you continue on and on in that thread to defend the EFB….

        On another thread;

        Electoral finance laws are apparently not constuitutional change…

        Anti-EFB crusader calls for armed revolution

        You still think this rOb ?

        RE: What the ODT had to say about the EFB;

        ODT on the Electoral Finance Bill

        “The price of apathy is to be ruled by evil [wo]men Plato’

        It’s deja moo all over again. (As in, we’ve heard this bullshit before).

        Then later in that thread;

        ODT on the Electoral Finance Bill


        and then here;

        Key demands we publish full quote

        • r0b 17.2.2.1

          Very good Burt, anything I said I stand by. What was your point again?

          • burt 17.2.2.1.1

            That you defended the EFB/EFA both the law itself and the process used to pass it.

            Good luck pointing to hypocrisy if National carry on with a electoral funding bill similar to Labour’s – I’ll back you pointing that out.

            But unless you are prepared to wear that label yourself you had better be very careful what you say about the actual law itself and especially careful about being critical of the process National use to pass it.

            • r0b 17.2.2.1.1.1

              That you defended the EFB/EFA both the law itself and the process used to pass it.

              I defended that which needed defending, and criticised that which needed criticising. It’s called independent critical thought Burt. You should try it some time.

              Good luck pointing to hypocrisy if National carry on with a electoral funding bill similar to Labour’s I’ll back you pointing that out.

              I shan’t mind if National come up with a similar Bill Burt. It wasn’t perfect by a long shot, nor was it terrible. If National can improve it, or at least not stuff it up completely, I’ll be happy.

              But unless you are prepared to wear that label yourself you had better be very careful what you say about the actual law

              Thanks terribly for the warning Burt, I’ll give it all due consideration.

  18. BLiP 18

    Great post. The effects of tactics used by Crosby/Textor to stir up the fears and anger of the public so disgusted me that for the first time in my life I became active politically.

    I work in an office that is wall-to-wall Tory and the level of personal invective against Helen Clark became near intolerable as the election date drew close. As the one “greenie” in the office, I became the target of, at first, sly jokes and nasty innuendo which, in the end, devolved into outright bullying. I’m big enough and ugly enough to stand up for myself but, in effect, I had to keep my head down and mouth shut. Any attempt to query the antagonists for National resulted in being shouted down with lies and abuse – there was no room for any discussion or consideration of the facts: that “socialist, lesbian bitch whose policies have trashed democracy, left people terrified in their own homes, and wants to run our lives has to go” was the refrain.

    A year later and things have settled down. There’s not quite the same edge to the comments. Basher Bennett’s bullying didn’t help, but there’s room now to explain what “reported crime” is, to share a laugh at John Key cycling around New Zealand in his poncho and goober dancing at the Big gay Out, and coming up with our own Top Ten and expressing a shared sense of embarrassment at the Letterman appearance. I’m even welcome back at the Friday drinks even if its just to take piss, but the mood has changed.

    • r0b 18.1

      Good for you BLiP – stay strong. I was in a similar environment once (long ago now) and it isn’t easy being the stand out…

      • outofbed 18.1.1

        i was very till very recently working in the transport industry doing some manual work. Being a Greenie in that environment was immensely difficult too.
        I felt like I came from a different planet. although jokes were in general light hearted and one gives as much as one takes.,
        But people had no grasp of sustainability issues at all. No idea
        Made me realise that the Greens were just not connecting

        I found the whole thing very soul destroying actually all the ideas about politics were those that can weree gleaned by 30 sec sound bites on the National news.
        I did find that after a while one could get through some new ideas and ways of looking at things but it wasn’t easy

        It was interesting that the perception was , that we were all dope smoking sandal wearing dropouts( It was amusing to find out the only person in the place never to have smoked dope was me)

  19. HitchensFan 19

    BLiP and rOb. Agreed. Me too. But the mood is definitely changing……I’ve just had to keep my head down for a year and put up with the vile invective but it’s now starting to go in the other direction thanks to Crusher, Basher and now Double Dipton………and everyone seems united in thinking Key is just an idiot and sort of amusing in an OMG he’s the PM kinda way……
    Give it another year…

  20. Anne 20

    Interested in your experiences Blip. I went through the same thing in the late 1980s. It was a government service too! It reached the point where the local management asked staff to report any witnessed misdemeanours they could use “to get rid of me”. They failed because there was nothing anyone could find. It was a case of puerile, political vindictiveness.

    • BLiP 20.1

      Yes – I know – I can hear it in the background – its the smallest violin in the world playing just for me . . . but what my experience gave me was an idea of just how divisive and nasty the tactics were to the national psyche, never mind my little world.

      At its worse, I had National Ltd stickers plastered all over my car, everyone in the office got new ergo-dynamic furniture (made from nyatoh) except me, necessary information to do my job was delayed, and there were a few weirdo phone calls at home. There wasn’t any real threat to my employment as such except that the atmosphere was made so toxic I began seriously to consider other options.

      Like I said, things have settled down now and one or two people have even approached me to say they were upset by the actions of others at the time. The fact that they didn’t speak out when it mattered annoys me but, again, is evidence of the effectiveness of tapping into that irrational human aspect Crosby/Textor and National Ltd delight in and profit from. My only consolation is that individuals on the Right must have suffered significant effects from their cognitive dissonance and now have a putrid pool of malignant nastiness eating away at their souls.

      Prior to the election campaign I didn’t really bother with politics even though close family members are involved. These days, however, in my own little way, whether its delivering pamphlets or banging up bill boards, or blogging or slipping the odd comment into conversations, I like to think that so far as I am concerned the C/T tactics have backfired. I know I’m not the only one and, in fact, as the real face of National Ltd emerges, our ranks will swell. As r0b says: stay strong.

  21. Mac1 21

    Cripes, BLiP, 2008 candidates got a cruisy run compared to your experience.Stay strong yourself, brother.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • More time for health workers and elderly to get flu vaccine
    The Government has extended by two weeks till April 27 the amount of time priority groups, such as health workers and those aged over 65, have to get their flu vaccine before it is made available to the wider public. This year’s vaccination campaign is a key component of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Communities step up to help New Zealanders stay connected and fed during lockdown
    Communities stepping up to help New Zealanders stay at home to break the transmission of COVID-19 and save lives have received Government support, said Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. “Delivering groceries for the elderly who can’t shop online, providing data packs for low income families to keep them connected, and being ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • 120 COVID-19 testing centres now operating
    Across New Zealand 120 sites are taking samples to be tested for COVID-19.   68 community based assessment centres (CBACs) have been established to take samples from people with COVID-19 symptoms. Alongside this, 52 other centres including designated general practices, swabbing centres, and mobile clinics are now testing people for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Covid19: Government moving quickly to roll out learning from home
    The Ministry of Education is working with partners to develop a package of options so that students can learn at home when Term 2 begins on 15 April, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. Supports are also being prepared for households with children under five, to help parents and whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Making learning from home accessible to Māori learners and whānau
    Māori Television to begin educational te reo programmes Ki te Ao Mārama – a new online learning space Thousands of hard copy learning packs ready for distribution Helpdesk and advice service for kōhanga, kura and wharekura Television, the internet and hard copy learning packs are some of the ways whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • New Zealand to provide assistance to Vanuatu following Tropical Cyclone Harold
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced an initial package of support to help the people and the Government of Vanuatu respond to the impact of Tropical Cyclone Harold. “Our Pacific neighbours have been hit by a Category 5 Cyclone at the same time as dealing with the economic impacts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Planning for the future of tourism
    Tourism New Zealand to lead work reimagining the way tourism operates in post-COVID-19 world. Ministers to review International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy investment plan. The Government, industry and business are working together to develop a plan for how tourism will operate in a post-COVID-19 world, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • NZ horticulture sector feeding Kiwis and the world during COVID-19
    More New Zealanders are taking up the chance to work in horticulture as the sector keeps New Zealanders fed and in jobs during the COVID-19 Alert Level 4 lockdown. “Our horticulture sector has long been one of New Zealand’s export star performers, contributing around $6 billion a year to our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Work to repurpose PGF funds begins
    The Provincial Development Unit is working through applications and projects to see where Provincial Growth Fund money can be repurposed for initiatives deemed more critical to fighting the economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. “We need to be throwing everything we have at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • A million workers supported by Govt wage subsidy
    The Government’s wage subsidy to protect jobs and keep workers and businesses connected during the lockdown has now supported over a million New Zealanders, with $6.6 billion already paid out. “We’re supporting businesses to pay wages, and stay connected with their workers so that we are all in a better ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government helps Pacific communities fight COVID
    The Government is stepping up efforts to help protect New Zealand’s Pacific communities in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet has agreed that $17 million will be allocated to support a COVID-19 Pacific Response Package, which will: Support Pacific health and disability services facing increased demand; Ramp up public health messaging ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Dr David Clark
    “Yesterday evening the Health Minister advised me of his trip to a beach during the lockdown and offered his resignation,” Jacinda Ardern said.  “Under normal conditions I would sack the Minister of Health. What he did was wrong, and there are no excuses.  “But right now, my priority is our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Statement from David Clark
    Last night as part of my preparation for the Epidemic Response Committee, I provided the Prime Minister with a complete picture of my activity outside my home during Alert Level 4.  That included the fact that on the first weekend of the Alert Level 4 lockdown I drove my family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • COVID-19 mental health support begins
    A range of support is being rolled out across New Zealand to help people look after their mental health during COVID-19 Health Minister David Clark said this morning. “COVID-19 has brought a lot of uncertainty into our lives and many of us will be feeling some level of distress or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealanders in Peru to be assisted by Government charter flight
    The New Zealand Government has made arrangements to charter a flight for New Zealanders stranded in Peru to depart the country, following agreement with the Chilean government to allow the necessary transit through Chile, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters announced today. “Like many travellers around the world at the moment, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • COVID-19 Hospital Preparation Well Advanced
    Hospital preparations for COVID-19 are well advanced says Health Minister David Clark. “Hospitals across New Zealand are repurposing buildings and training staff to get ready for COVID-19 patients. This gives me confidence that we are well prepared for any potential increase in COVID-19 patients needing hospital level care,” said David ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Further measures to support businesses
    The Government will be introducing legislation to make changes to the Companies Act to help companies facing insolvency due to COVID-19 to remain viable and keep New Zealanders in jobs. The temporary changes include: Giving directors of companies facing significant liquidity problems because of COVID-19 a ‘safe harbour’ from insolvency ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt’s COVID plan, economic strength recognised
    The Government’s plan to cushion the blow of COVID-19 by supporting incomes, jobs and businesses, and position the economy to recover has been backed by another international report. International credit rating agency Moody’s today reaffirmed its highest Aaa credit rating on New Zealand, saying the economy is expected to remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Funding certainty for sports through COVID-19
    National sports organisations have been given certainty of funding to ensure they can remain viable through the COVID-19 pandemic, Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson announced today. “The global spread of COVID-19 has had a significant impact on sport and recreation in New Zealand, including the cancellation or postponement of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Butchers now allowed to process pork
    Changes have been made to allow butchers to process pork, only for supply to supermarkets or other processors or retailers that are open, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has announced. “We carefully weighed the risk of allowing butchers to open their shops for retail customers, but the risk of spreading COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Essential workers leave scheme established
    Essential workers who take leave from work to comply with public health guidance are being supported with a leave scheme to ensure they will continue to receive income, say the Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Iain Lees-Galloway and Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni. A number of essential businesses ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Govt WhatsApp helps share COVID-19 information
    A Government WhatsApp channel has been launched to help make information more easily accessible and shareable in the fight against COVID-19. Govt.NZ, which is free to use on any mobile device, will carry information and news for the public, businesses, healthcare providers, not for profits and local government. It can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Managed departure plan for stranded foreign nationals enables safe, orderly exit
    The Government has announced a plan to enable the safe, orderly exit of tens of thousands of stranded foreign nationals from New Zealand during the current COVID-19 Alert Level 4 restrictions, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters has said. “When we moved into lockdown a week ago, the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government delivers COVID-19 support to GPs and Pharmacies
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says the Government is delivering on its commitment to support general practice doctors and nurses, and pharmacies on the front-line of our fight against COVID-19. "For us to overcome COVID-19, we need community health services such as general practice and community pharmacy to step up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
    Justice Susan Thomas has been appointed Chief High Court Judge, Attorney-General David Parker announced today.  She replaces Justice Geoffrey Venning who has resigned from the position.   David Parker paid tribute to Justice Venning, who he said had stewarded the High Court very capably over the last five years.   “On behalf ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
    Work is underway looking at measures to speed up consents for development and infrastructure projects during the recovery from COVID 19, to provide jobs and stimulate our economy.  Environment Minister David Parker said the COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis that will have a wide ranging and lasting impact ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supermarkets able to open on Easter Sunday
    The Government is ensuring supermarkets can open on Easter Sunday so we can buy groceries, but stay closed on Good Friday allowing workers to take a break. This provides a balanced approach and ensures we avoid large queues that two days closure may cause. “Supermarkets will be able to open ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago