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The cleaner & the ugly face of National

Written By: - Date published: 7:05 am, September 27th, 2013 - 164 comments
Categories: capitalism, class war, jobs, wages, workers' rights - Tags:

Imagine that your job was to clean 130 toilets every day. Imagine the grinding unpleasantness of it. Imagine the horrors some disgusting person would regularly leave for you to deal with. Imagine you do that for just above the minimum wage, barely enough to support your family, far from enough to live a real life. And imagine seeing one of the people whose shit you clean sneer at you.

Watch this. Listen to these poor working women plead with the rich people in suits to give them just a taste of the life that they take for granted. See Tau Henare (a man who was once a union organiser, for fuck’s sake) sneer and say she should give her job to someone else if she doesn’t like it.

Someone, Tau, has to do the job of cleaning up your shit or your office would soon stink of it and worse. That person is as human and as worthy of basic human dignity as you. And, unlike you, she works hard for her money, when was the last time you contributed anything of value to society? Arsehole.

As for Henare’s ‘solution’ – what happens when the woman gives up the job? Some other poor desperate person has to take it and endure the same conditions. She herself can’t get the benefit because she gave up a job voluntarily and she’ll be bloody lucky to get another job in John Key’s economy where 50,000 more people are unemployed than when he came to office.

‘She should educate herself, get a better job’, says the smug rightie. Still doesn’t change the fact that someone has to do the job and they deserve dignity. And how is a working class Pasifika mother meant to be able to afford to get educated? She can’t afford to take the time off work, and there’s no government support for her to get an education on the benefit thanks to Paula Bennett who took away the Training Incentive Allowance.

And, now, rather than pay these people a living wage, National wants to make a crappy, low-paid job worse by making it possible for cleaning contractors to fire existing staff and hire them back at worse pay when contracts change hands.

A job and a fair wage in return for your hard work. It’s something that anyone deserves, but it’s more than National thinks that you’re worth.

164 comments on “The cleaner & the ugly face of National ”

  1. miravox 1

    How is that relevant? Are Labour and the Greens responsible for the contract? Are Labour and the Greens promising a living wage?

    Do Labour and the Greens support this piece of legislation designed to remove job protection for cleaners? Shall I answer these questions for you?

  2. tinfoilhat 2

    The Greens are committed to and pay at the very minimum a living wage.

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1

      You should get paid more for cleaning up a vegetarian’s shit.

      • amirite 2.1.1

        Those who are cleaning your shit must be getting a CEO’s pay then.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1.1.1

          I am not a vegetarian.

          • thatguynz 2.1.1.1.1

            Perhaps not but given how regularly you demonstrate just how full of shit you are, one would suggest that cleaning up after you would be a hell of a job..

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Displaying your superior intellect again there I see, thatguynz.

      • phillip ure 2.1.2

        @ gormless..

        ..do you prefer the odour of rotting flesh and animal fats..?

        ..whoar..!

        ..phillp ure..

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1.2.1

          I am not discussing my shit with you, Phil.

          • phillip ure 2.1.2.1.1

            u threw the first turd..eh..?

            ..and why the vegetarian-hate..?

            ..(and such a bad/lame ‘joke’..and from a mitchell-fan..?..hang yr head..!..)

            ..do you have financial interests in the flesh-trade..?

            ..and seriously..there is a school of thought that holds that people will never treat people decently/with respect.

            ..until people first treat animals decently/with respect..

            ..eh..?

            ..and i’d bet a vege-casserole to a meat-pie..

            ..that henare hasn’t even heard of that school of thought..eh..?

            ..and would likely share yr curled-lip contempt of those ‘vegetarians’..

            ..so..there you sit..with henare..

            ..(and i speak to you again as a fellow mitchell-fan..)

            ..henare ain’t at all funny…eh..?

            ..and you want vegan-funny..?

            ..this is from a piece i found this morn:..titled ‘the 19 most annoying things about being a vegan’..

            “..10. Getting lumped in with the gluten-free people.

            For Christ’s sake, it’s already hard enough!!!..”

            (now that..is funny..)

            ..phillip ure..

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1.2.1.1.1

              I bet David Mitchell is a meat eater.

            • Rosie 2.1.2.1.1.2

              Onya Phil. Don’t know why some folks are obsessed with belittling vego’s after all these years, and even more childish, considering their fecal matter, as if this has anything to do with the topic anyway.Are they stuck in the 50’s?

              V funny point 10 “Getting lumped in with the gluten free people”. I have actually had this happen to me. Long story, involving an awkward social blunder recovery moment. But who’s off topic now lol.

      • tinfoilhat 2.1.3

        Not sure why you think that The greens are all vegetarians but I will defer to your expertise in all things scatological.

  3. vto 3

    Tau Henare is a pig. As are his mates who are supporting this. All pigs. oink oink, go sit with Matthew Hooton. Horrible horrible National Party people.

    What a disgusting arsehole of a man.

    He will get his comeuppance one day, that is for sure.

    • amirite 3.1

      + 1

      To be fair, he only said what most tories think to themselves but don’t dare to say it loud.

      • Tom Gould 3.1.1

        Remember how the MSM was all over Charles Chauvel when he had a moan about a crying kid on a plane? Where are the big chooks now on this grotesque example of arrogance and selfishness and entitlement? Not a peep, not a word.

    • Scatalogical thread is inevitalbe.

      Trying not to imagine Tau grinning smugly as he walks out of a Beehive bathroom, having shotgunned the bowl due to the backup brought on by a roid and potato diet. Too late.

    • North 3.3

      No mana. An out and out kupapa sucking ShonKey Python for the $160,000 or whatever it is he gets annually. Thing is he’d adopt that pose for anyone who had the power to ensure the putea. No mana but sure jumps on board the mana waka when it suits him. He’s a joke in the North.

    • newsense 3.4

      Someone should make a toilet bowl brush of Henare, would be more satisfying to use than the chew toys…

    • The Labour Party needs to show these comments and TV news item every day throughout the election campaign.
      Yhis is true National Party ideology at is best,

  4. lurgee 4

    Surely ‘ugly face’ suggests a bit of confusion as to the mechanics of the defecation process? It doesn’t come from the face – except when John Key is speaking.

    Other than that, well said.

  5. karol 5

    Darien Fenton, Labour MP against the employment law changes and for the cleaners in schools, Parliament, etc.

    said yesterday, Listen to the Cleaners Mr Bridges:

    Simon Bridges should meet with the cleaners who today told Parliament about their fears for their work, their families and the health of their local communities under his proposed changes to labour laws, Labour’s Associate Labour spokesperson Darien Fenton says.

    “Cleaners representing schools, Parliament and the police college have warned MPs on the Transport and Industrial Relations Select Committee about the impact of proposed changes to Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act.

    “Not only will the changes lower their pay and cut their hours, it will affect the quality of work they are able to do.

    “School Cleaners are particularly vulnerable, as even the largest of schools have fewer than 20 cleaners and will be subject to the proposed changes. Their jobs and pay will no longer be protected if their contractor changes hands or the work is franchised.

  6. Colonial Viper 6

    Cleaners do more good for society than the parasitic banking industry. But we have an economy which rewards pursuing excessive financial greed, and takes for granted jobs which physically help society.

  7. geoff 7

    Does it break the Standard’s anti-violence policy to suggest that someone should fling a turd at Tau Henare?

    [lprent: Probably. And hypothetically I could ban for hypotheticals as well. ]

    • private baldric 7.1

      Nah

      Celebrity death match between Tau H and Trev M with the winner receiving a bungee jump from the top of the sky tower sans bungee.

  8. pollywog 8

    Tau always struck me as a crawly bumlicking toady and i’m a fairly good judge of character.

  9. One Anonymous Knucklehead 9

    Henare’s failure to muster even the tiniest shred of human decency, Bridge’s pants-on-fire assertions that the changes are about “fairness”, can only serve to remind people what the National Party is.

  10. Saarbo 10

    “unlike you, she works hard for her money, when was the last time you contributed anything of value to society? Arsehole.”

    Hear, hear…well put!

  11. shorts 11

    I’d support any party that proposed MPs get paid the living wage and value cleaners far higher than many of those who hold power in this land

  12. greywarbler 12

    I learned from the delorean link that there were some great figures connected with the film Back to the Future. To drool over if you are an investor.
    Budget $US99M
    Box office $US957.6M
    Sorry off thread but wow. Can cleaners get into that sort of budget?

    Unfortunately you can’t make an appearance on any stage when you are invisible. And that is how the managers and indeed the general public treat such workers. Though they want the tidy clean results of their work to be visible. It’s paradoxical thinking.

  13. Rosie 13

    A moment of shear gobsmackedness was experienced watching this clip on the news last night. Purely unbelievable. Tau Henare is a paid up of member of Cruel Bastards Inc. Does he have no understanding of the work content for these women, the difficulty of life for low paid workers and the right to work security, and not to mention dignity?

    He needs to have a little think about that and then apologise to these women and all other workers he has insulted by his comments. He can follow that up by thanking them for doing a remarkable job.

  14. Tracey 14

    Cant find it online at stuff or the herald

  15. Lightly 15

    The cleaning contract is run by Parliamentary Services, not the political parties. Labour and the Greens have called on Parliamentary Services to pay its staff and contractors the living wage.

  16. To be fair, he only said what most tories think to themselves but don’t dare to say it loud.

    Oh, they say it out loud alright, and write it on blog comments threads – you just don’t usually find one of their elected representatives blathering it to the TV cameras.

  17. Curtis 17

    Was she not actually concerned with potentially losing her job because of the law change? Did Tau actually bother to listen to her because I don’t understand his logic “Oh you’re worried about losing your job? Well give it to someone else then?” Who does he think he is some kind of Aristocrat and all us peasants should be happy with the scraps he and his mates gives us?

    • Draco T Bastard 17.1

      Who does he think he is some kind of Aristocrat and all us peasants should be happy with the scraps he and his mates gives us?

      Yes, that would be exactly what he, and the rest of the National Party hierarchy, are thinking.

    • Puddleglum 17.2

      “Was she not actually concerned with potentially losing her job because of the law change? Did Tau actually bother to listen to her because I don’t understand his logic “Oh you’re worried about losing your job? Well give it to someone else then?”

      Well spotted.

      It’s as if he automatically defaulted to the idea that they were too ‘fussy’ and didn’t want to be cleaners. As if he only had a small repertoire of dog whistle responses to these kinds of situations: ‘Toilet cleaner complaining = lazy would-be beneficiary who thinks all work is beneath her’

      Disturbing stuff.

  18. AmaKiwi 18

    Congratulations, Tau! If we can make that snide remark into a Kim Dotcom style U-Tube clip, we can motivate a lot of people to vote these creeps out in 2014.

    Same for John Key’s “no need to be honest” remark.

    We have lots of creative young Lefties. Here’s their chance to become famous and do a good deed at the same time. Much more effective than speeches and hoardings. Cheaper than TV ads.

    David Cunliffe, can we make U-Tube our new media outlet?

  19. srylands 19

    I don’t support the living wage campaign. New Zealand already has a very high minimum wage.

    Just a note on cleaners. I am surprised more don’t become more entrepreneurial. I have my house cleaned once a fortnight. I pay $70 for 2.5 hours cleaning. The guy does a great job. He is 65, just started getting Super, and has 6 clients, giving him a nice top up to his retirement income.

    The key point is he was hard to get. Good cleaners can make a decent living. The “minimum|” wage is a minimum. A bit of effort can get you a lot more even if you are a cleaner. This is down to personal effort, not yet more efforts by the state to regulate markets.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 19.1

      Reality check: success is driven by chance, not hard work. Yeah yeah, I know, you have blind dogmatic faith in your opinion, but your opinion is worthless.

      • srylands 19.1.1

        “Reality check: success is driven by chance, not hard work. ”

        Seriously bad shit must have happened to you. Are you brain damaged?

      • infused 19.1.2

        God, this confirms your a fucking moron.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 19.1.2.1

          Yes, shoot the messenger, that always works. Lots of people work hard. A few of them achieve riches and/or success. The difference is luck.

        • Bruce 19.1.2.2

          Grammar police: “your” should be “you’re” as in “you are”. I spot a moron.

          • Brett Dale 19.1.2.2.1

            Bruce.

            This was Voted best tweet ever by the twitter universe.

            “Hey Grammar police, it’s YOU’RE GOING TO DIE ALONE”

            Something to think about.

            Man all my years of working, only to be told it comes down to luck, as why
            people are successful.

      • Brett Dale 19.1.3

        One Knucklehead:

        You say success is driven by chance and not hardwork?????

        That is not cemented in reality, Infact, I dont think I will read anything you write again.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 19.1.3.1

          Check the facts. Lots of people work hard. Police, nurses, miners, etc.

          The hard work might bring you riches and success, if you are lucky. Don’t shoot the messenger. I am not making this up. It formed the basis of Warren Buffett’s challenge to US tax policy, for example, but he didn’t make it up either.

          The best examples are the innate income advantages and disadvantages delivered at birth, or being tall, or dark haired, or male.

    • Delia 19.2

      These women are supporting families. They are talking about job security. They cannot run around town with x number of clients if they have child care responsibilities. If you think cleaners are over paid, go and be one. Obviously in your fantasy you would make a killing.

      • srylands 19.2.1

        “These women are supporting families.”

        Don’t be so stupid. Their kids are at school. My cleaner only works 9-3. Where did I state that cleaners are over paid? I don’t need to be a cleaner. I did 4 years of shit jobs on minimum wage while I was at university. It taught me that I did not want to do that forever.

        If people have made the decision to not aspire beyond minimum wage jobs they should not aspire to have children. They simply can’t afford them

        • Hayden 19.2.1.1

          If people have made the decision to not aspire beyond minimum wage jobs…

          Where is the evidence that everyone on minimum wage has made that decision?

        • karol 19.2.1.2

          should not aspire to have children

          Interesting way to describe sex.

        • Te Reo Putake 19.2.1.3

          Oh, goody, another eugenics fan crawls out from under his rock. The fact is that cleaners do aspire to be above minimum wage, which is why their union is so active in the Living Wage campaign. Its lowlifes like you that stop their aspirations being met.

        • framu 19.2.1.4

          “If people have made the decision to not aspire beyond minimum wage jobs they should not aspire to have children. They simply can’t afford them”

          im going to cut straight to the logical end of this discussion

          your an inhuman piece of trash – GFY

          come back when your ready to actually engage and have disposed of your pathetic, disgusting and immoral little fantasy world

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 19.2.1.5

          Planet Srylands, where procreation is neat and tidy and matches faith-based drivel. Planet Earth, where the poorest people have the most children. Never the twain shall meet.

        • Tracey 19.2.1.6

          didnt you say that you needed 150k before you should even consider children, preferably 200K? That’s way beyond minimum wage aspirations.

          Essentially you just want people like you to be breeding, whereas I am pleased to see the borth rates amongst folks like you are declining.

          • srylands 19.2.1.6.1

            didnt you say that you needed 150k before you should even consider children, preferably 200K? That’s way beyond minimum wage aspirations.”

            Are you drunk behind that bar in Hamilton again Tracey with an e?

            Not quite what i said – Yes I did say that you needed 200K to live in a decent Auckland suburb and live a decent life and have 2 kids. That is not a remarkable conclusion.

            Yes I did know that birth rates decline with both income and educaion levels. Are you so obtuse that you think that is news?

            • Tracey 19.2.1.6.1.1

              You seem quite fixated about Hamilton and drinking.

              Open mike 22/09/2013

              Anyway for completeness here is what you wrote

              “A household income of 100K is totally unremarkable. If you live in Auckland and had a couple of kids, you would need a household income of at least 150k to live a half decent life (200K to live a fully decent life). Any income less than that in Auckland and you should give up on having kids (or live somewhere else).

              If you are aged 30+, in good health, and you are involuntariliy earning less than $60K, you have made some poor life decisions about education, work, or both plus a bunch of other things.”

              Next time you are pretending to be in Wellington you ought to have dinner with Mathew Hooten. You can just sit and nod at each other all night long.

        • amirite 19.2.1.7

          Srylands -If children were treated as simple economic units like you seem to think, no one would ever have them because it wouldn’t make any financial /economic sense to have them.
          The only upside of that is that the likes of you wouldn’t have never been born.

        • Sable 19.2.1.8

          Not everyone is lucky enough to have a university education whilst others may not be capable. Does that mean these people should be condemned to a life of misery? I thought you were misguided srylands now I see you are in fact much worse than that. Shame on you sunshine….

        • fender 19.2.1.9

          Srylands trying to outdo Henare for arsehole of the week award.

          Would like to know how anyone could competently deal with the bullshit dribble pouring out of your cakehole in 2.5 hours once every 2 weeks, must use a fire hose.

        • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.10

          If people have made the decision to not aspire beyond minimum wage jobs they should not aspire to have children.

          The problem you fail to see is that these people can’t afford to aspire to better paying jobs. They don’t have the necessary resources to go back to school and the present system keeps them in that position.

          Think about it: Where are they going to get the money to start a cleaning business? To buy the van, the tools and the supplies? Then there’s the cost of advertising and the time between when they start and the time when they have enough regular clients to have enough income.

          Can’t do it on the unemployment benefit as you’re a) supposed to be looking for a job and b) just don’t have enough income to actually start the business.

        • greywarbler 19.2.1.11

          What a loss to the world if srylands’ parents had been poor and digent. (not indigent). Sigh. If this doesn’t make sense it’s in tune with wrylands epigram.

        • miravox 19.2.1.12

          “Their kids are at school.”

          She works nights…

          But yeah, what’s she doing with her day? House-keeping, maintaining family & social contacts preparing food, household administration etc – and sleep are so over-rated.

          … made the decision not to aspire beyond…

          because there is no context to ‘decision-making’, not at all.

          • McFlock 19.2.1.12.1

            Srylands was talking about his cleaner. Domestic slave, if you will. He seems to be unaware that most businesses schedule cleaning for when it’s most likely that other staff won’t be disturbed – for example, my office gets cleaned anywhere from 8-10pm weeknights. I only know this because I work late, and generally bullshit / gasbag with the cleaner for a bit before I piss off home.

            But even if I only worked daylight hours, I’d have to be a fucking self-absorbed moron to assume that the bin empties itself, the floors mop, vacuum or polish themselves, that bogroll gets changed magically, and so on…

            • QoT 19.2.1.12.1.1

              I’ve worked with a hell of a lot of such fucking self-absorbed morons, McFlock. One workplace, the cleaners explicitly *did not* do dishes. If the two or three people who knew how to load a dishwasher were out for a day? Some people got seriously fucking confused when we ran out of mugs.

              So ignoring the massive amounts of other things that just magically stay clean or stocked … it’s depressing how easy it is.

        • Wayne 19.2.1.13

          Srylands,

          Jeepers, your opinion is pretty extreme, and actually quite offensive.

          It must be obvious to everyone but you, that people have many different, and sometimes difficult financial situations and can raise really good families.

          The whole point of WFF and State Housing is to make sure everyone has the full range of choices in life, even though it might not be so easy for them.

          • Draco T Bastard 19.2.1.13.1

            The whole point of WFF and State Housing is to make sure everyone has the full range of choices in life, even though it might not be so easy for them.

            Except for the fact that they don’t and that their true purpose is as a multi-billion dollar subsidy to business so that they can continue paying substandard wages so as to maintain higher profits for the few.

          • Hayden 19.2.1.13.2

            your opinion is pretty extreme

            Sadly, it’s actually not that unusual, judging by some of the comments on Stuff, NZ Herald, etc.’s stories.

        • Puddleglum 19.2.1.14

          If people have made the decision to not aspire beyond minimum wage jobs …

          Putting aside any other issue with this statement, why do some people ‘decide’ upon one path and others upon another?

          Put another way: Just what is a ‘decision’ and what processes give rise to one?

    • Hayden 19.3

      Yeah, but you live in Australia.

    • miravox 19.4

      ” I pay $70 for 2.5 hours cleaning”

      Is that in Australia or Kapiti?

      Also – Unless you know what that’s worth after expenses it’s pretty irrelevant.

      • Murray Olsen 19.4.1

        I pay $50 for 2 hours cleaning in Brisbane. I can’t imagine an hourly rate that would be high enough to clean up the stinking kupapa mess left by the Right Dishonourable Tau Henare. Is the cleaning union still strong enough to put a work stoppage on his shithouse?

        • miravox 19.4.1.1

          Beyond a living wage, that’s for sure. He might be wanting to be responsible for keeping his personal space extra un-messy right about now.

          I wonder what job he’ll be going to after the next election – may be the cleaners union can gift him the tools of the trade with instructions on how how to maintain dignity in front of arseholes, a skill these women have learned so well.

  20. karol 20

    Clever, Lynn. I’m impressed this pre-programmed time-shifting is possible.

    • Rosie 20.1

      It had me a little baffled lol 🙂

    • lprent 20.2

      It wasn’t pre-programmed. The sort order for comments in on UTC date/time. So shifting a comments date shifts it in the order.

      Just edit the top-level comment and change time on the comment and it moves the whole thread to the bottom. Moving a day forward seems like the obvious solution as it puts the comment thread to the end of the posts day in the sun.

      I’m tired of people hanging around to get in a first diversionary comment to try to divert the post to something that the author didn’t intend. I can move the comment to OpenMike. But in a lot of ways this is preferable.

      Leave a note to tell people that is what was done.

      • richard 20.2.1

        Only drawback seems to be that the link to the comment stays at the top of the list of list of ‘latest comments’

        • lprent 20.2.1.1

          Yeah – same in the admins view. That will be easy to fix. Just exclude back to the future comments from that list. I drived from that class last week to to play around with jquery/ajax

  21. Imagine if you decide to better yourself and go to night school, to find a better a job.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.1

      Imagine if that exact same point was covered in the OP. Imagine if you took remedial English comprehension lessons.

      Imagine if we had better wingnuts.

      Brett Dale and Tau Henare: arseholes together in shite.

      • Brett Dale 21.1.1

        Yeah who doesnt want personal responsibility.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.1.1.1

          Personal responsibility to read the article at the top of the page before making a complete fool of yourself?

          Or the variety of “personal responsibility” that you use to blame victims of circumstance, that makes you look like a piece of trash?

        • Descendant Of Sssmith 21.1.1.2

          Yep we should not have people cleaning the toilets then.

          Once you have finished you’ll put on the gloves, get out the disinfectant, and clean it yourself.

          Do you take personal responsibility for your bowel motions Brett and the hygiene risk they present?

          I get annoyed actually when toilets don’t have a toilet brush besides them.

          I’ve never thought someone else should have to clean crap off the toilet after I’ve been and do it myself if there’s a toilet brush there. Motel rooms, workplaces, sports venues, airports. Don’t expect wife to do it either at home.

          It’s a small way in which I can make the cleaners job less unpleasant.

          • McFlock 21.1.1.2.1

            I reckon there’s a line of courtesy, if you will 🙂

            Back when I was a cleaner at DEKA (waybackwhen) the bogs weren’t too bad of a job, little skid marks ok. The time I had the “task > (($/hr)*1000)” thought was when someone had obviously been ill and the toilet was a sight to behold. That could have done with a token attempt by the dealer, IMO.

            Well, there was another time when I got to work to find an elderly gentleman had been incontinent in one of the checkout lines. Fair enough, it happens, but they just roped it off for 45 minutes until I got in to work. Right at the goddamn front of the shop, too. All class.

            • Psycho Milt 21.1.1.2.1.1

              …they just roped it off for 45 minutes until I got in to work. Right at the goddamn front of the shop, too. All class.

              Having run a library in a US Army camp in Kuwait, I’m familiar with the not-really-one-if-you-aren’t-a-cunt ‘dilemma’ of whether to put an out-of-order sign on the overflowing toilet and leave it until the long-suffering cleaners turn up, or deal with it yourself.

              There’s something about American toilets (and Americans, and jury-rigged sewerage systems) that leads to a great many blocked/overflowing toilets. I was particularly impressed with the unknown military hero who managed to block our urinal with toilet paper. Soldiers aren’t provided with abundant opportunities to eliminate waste, so none of them let the fact the urinal was blocked prevent them pissing in it, until eventually I got told about it and spent a while getting elbow deep in this effluent soup so I could pull all the toilet paper out of the drain. My staff were horrified, but the bottom line is that the same room features soap and a wash basin, and cleaners don’t enjoy being elbow-deep in piss any more than anyone else does. It would probably do Tau some good to have a go at it himself.

            • Puddleglum 21.1.1.2.1.2

              When I was at Primary School, at the end of every day we had to clean the classroom and put our chairs on the desks, up off the floor.

              I remember one afternoon a child who was a smart-alec in training, asked the teacher ‘Why do we have to clean up for the cleaners?’

              The teacher looked at him in that beautifully characterful way that some old school teachers had, and, after a pause, said words to the effect: ‘Cleaning up your own mess shows respect to the cleaners, who can then do a better job, and teaches you self discipline and to take responsibility for yourself. The world works better that way.’

              It was a great moment – no doubt embellished by memory, but for me it’s a reminder of something that’s been lost. Nowadays I’m stunned at how many people – like Tau Henare in this instance – are just grown up versions of that young smart-alec. They almost seem to think it’s some kind of an expression of a higher morality to show no respect for others and certainly not to ‘yield’ to the weakness of empathy.

        • the pigman 21.1.1.3

          Oh dear. Fallen off your hoverboard again, Brett? That musta been a nasty knock to the head…

    • joe90 21.2

      Imagine if you decide that the 225,000 people engaged in adult education 2009 could be reduced to 35,000 in 2012.

      • Tracey 21.2.1

        Don’t use facts or logic, you are dealing with people who give off the facade of rationality but are, in fact, relying on myth not facts to bolster their world view.

      • QoT 21.2.2

        But at least 50,000 of them were only doing silly skill-less things like Moroccan cooking, Anne Tolley said so!

    • framu 21.3

      Ok brett – i will play nice here.

      How does that fix the actual problem of cleaners earning to little?

      not this particular cleaner – but anyone who ends up doing the job

      • Psycho Milt 21.3.1

        See, once everyone has gained an education sufficient to “better” themselves, the average proletarian will be well capable of designing an automated cleaning system that costs far less than employing cleaners, and will enrich themselves from it, and this will be replicated across all proletarians/work sectors, and society will be totally awesome.

        • Brett Dale 21.3.1.1

          Psycho milt:

          There are plenty of free community colleges, do what I did in the 90’s, didint want to work in fast food all my life, went to a free night course run by the council in office admin, and changed careers.

          • lprent 21.3.1.1.1

            … plenty of free community colleges

            Not any more. Anne Tolley destroyed almost all night courses in 2009/10 by dropping the minimal amounts of funding that they received.

            • Brett Dale 21.3.1.1.1.1

              Iprent:

              There are plenty of courses going around that are still free. Or at elast just a one off
              small fee, and what about winz? they offer courses.

              • Tracey

                “plenty of courses going around that are still free.”

                Could you post the links to ones here that will reuslt in higher than minimum wage when completed?

              • Draco T Bastard

                and what about winz? they offer courses.

                LOL, beginner courses that are far below what’s learned in school. They won’t pay the small amount to even do the 7 days of training to get full MYOB accreditation.

          • Psycho Milt 21.3.1.1.2

            There are plenty of free community colleges, do what I did in the 90′s, didint want to work in fast food all my life, went to a free night course run by the council in office admin, and changed careers.

            The question I was replying to was “How does that fix the actual problem of cleaners earning to little?”

            Your reply to it suggests that you’re happy for cleaners to have inflicted on them whatever low level of pay and conditions employers want to foist on them, because if they didn’t enjoy that they wouldn’t be cleaners. It’s essentially the same view as Tau Henare’s, ie a singularly unpleasant one.

          • miravox 21.3.1.1.3

            Even if, as a cleaner, she wasn’t working nights,
            even if she had child care arrangements that allowed her to take night courses,
            even if she could afford the cost of a trip to college,
            even if she had the right skills to take the courses,
            even if she knew there were ‘better’ jobs available in the hours she could work and
            even if she felt secure enough that someone would hire her with English as a second language (because we’re not racist, or judgemental… oh nos),

            then someone else would have to clean the toilets and that someone would not be paid enough to live on and having their job made more precarious by this unfair, wage-reducing, legislation.

          • Draco T Bastard 21.3.1.2.1

            Actually, it is but we need to get rid of capitalism so that the freeing up of peoples time can result in a better society rather than the increased poverty for the many and increased wealth for the few that we see now.

    • Tracey 21.4

      you mean the nightclasses that National canned or something else? If you mean papers at a Uni outside working hours, then you also need to explain how a person on 13.50 an hour will be able to pay the course fees, their rent, their food, their electricity?

      How arrogantly middle class of you to imagine the world is for everyone as it is for you.

      • Brett Dale 21.4.1

        Tracey:

        There are a ton of free courses, some run by winz, some run by schools, and even the ones that arent free, its just a small one off fee around $30.

        So lets say you did a basic free night course in computing, if you type on a computer at a particular speed, you will find yourself data entry work.

        That pays slightly higher than cleaning, around $15-17 if you go with temping agencies, and its slightly more pleasant than cleaning.

        • Tracey 21.4.1.1

          Can you post your sources for the free or cheap courses and to the entry level jobs currently being advertised that she could step into.

          Who will clean the toilets when the cleaners are all data entry personnel? Students?

          Thanks

    • Sable 21.5

      Imagine simply treating people with respect and paying them for their hard work irrespective of who they are Ches-dale toenail cheese…

      • Brett Dale 21.5.1

        Sable:

        People do treat people with respect, and I have worked data entry assignments, where the cleaners actually get paid more and deservedly so.

  22. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 22

    Newsflash!

    Tau Henare has introduced National’s new election campaign slogan which is believed to have been inspired by the fabulous meeting Key has just had with his powerful conservative mates in Britain

    After spending large amounts of NZ tax payer dollars to get to Britain for an urgent strategy meeting with the most powerful right-wing minds in the world and staying in the finest hotels, the PM, looking somewhat sheepish responding to the question “Was that a good use of NZ taxpayers’ dollars?” stated on TV1 News: “Yes it was a very productive meeting. I was amongst the brightest and some of the wealthiest, I mean, most powerful of the western world and I made a lot of ‘useful’ connections”.

    It is understood that having spent much time over tea and canapés deliberating over the issues of concern, namely, how the conservatives and the interests of those that fund them could hold onto their fraudulently gained money whilst still appearing generous and democratic the resolution of the meeting was to approach their respective disgruntled members of the public with a clear and simple message that all could understand:

    “Let them eat cake”

    It is believed Mr Key spent much time at the meeting handing out his C.V.

    • Sable 23.1

      Good job…..

    • Te Reo Putake 23.2

      Interesting that Tau apparently doesnt agree with the righty scum commenting on this thread:

      “Mr Henare said on Twitter last night that he had previously cleaned toilets himself.

      He added: “I apologise to the lady and to all those that haven’t really got a choice in jobs. Aroha mai. My bad.” ”

      Haven’t really got a choice. Exactly right.

    • Steve 23.3

      Apologised yes, but we now know what he really thinks.

      I suspect the slimeball was jumped on from a great height by his paymasters. After all, can’t have the great unwashed knowing what the National party really thinks of them.

      Pathetic, grovelling toady.

  23. Sable 24

    I always personally found Henare pretty odious. I’m not surprised at all by his behaviour. NZ is increasingly a country of the “haves” and “have nots”, inequality fostered by the elitist National government.

  24. Curtis 25

    Tau just wrote this on facebook
    Tau Henare
    41 minutes ago via Mobile
    Yesterday, I was asked point blank what I felt about the lady who has to clean our toilets at Parly, nothing more and nothing less I said well if she doesn’t like doing her mahi than she could leave. I didn’t even know she’d had been at the select committee. I see they put the 2 together and made a story. Context is everything. Maybe I should have said all cleaners need a pay rise. I realise explaining is losing and take your criticisms on board. Kia ora. The good thing is that I have access to all those people who think what I said when they saw the 2 put together is i can have my say without having to answer questions from the old media. To Dr Brian Edwards, you of all people should know better, like I said, I was asked point lank, no background, no anything, what I thought about the person who cleans our toilets in Bowen house, I responded by saying well If she didn’t like her job she could give it to someone else, this was in response to that question. I haven’t seen the story that ran on TV3 but I can guess they ran 2 story’s together and had my comment as a comment on the lady’s appearance before the select committee. To those that want to listen, those are the facts, to those who don’t, they are still the facts. You all can and have made your opinions clear. I’m not blaming 3 news, I stand by my comments, and I accept that I have pissed off a few people. nga Mihi nui ki a koutou katoa mai I te ringa Matau ki te ringa Maui ki te waenganui hoki.

    • Tracey 25.1

      If he didnt know which cleaner was being referred to (the one before the select committee) how did he know she didnt like her job?

      • QoT 25.1.1

        It’s kind of revealing, isn’t it? Like, when he *knows* her situation he’s all understanding.

        If he doesn’t know the situation, his default assumption is that she’s a whinger who needs to be talked down to.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 25.2

      Thanks for the information, Curtis.

      Tau Henare’s comment and ensuing explanation show an extraordinary lack of awareness of the conditions involved when there is an high unemployment rate.

      One cannot just leave one’s place of work.
      This is just not an option when there is a lack of jobs.

      It is yet another of many “Let them eat cake” moment.

    • bad12 25.3

      Raymond having to dig deep for excuses can in no way excuse the comments made, i suggest that Raymond go and have a look at the news item,

      The overcoat changing Henare is far past His use by date and should end up at the bottom of Nationals party list for election 2014 so as to become fully aware what we think of Him and His views on those who toil daily for little reward in our economy…

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 25.3.1

        I thought Mr Henare was expressing National’s political approach very lucidly, Bad12. Why would they demote him for that?

      • Murray Olsen 25.3.2

        I think they should make him leader of the NAct party. Then everyone will become aware of the real party policy on employment and its attitude to manual workers.

    • Sable 25.4

      Ugh, what a glib little twit. Throwing a few Maori words to make it look like he’s one of the locals when in fact it appears he thinks he’s better than ordinary hardworking people. Maybe he should just shut his arrogant mouth and take it on the chin.

      • Not Another Sheep 25.4.1

        Ākuanei koe i a au,Sable ! Tapahia tōu arero; ko te āhua nei e tūtara ana o etahi whakahē i te mahi a te rōpū nei; ā, te kaupapa o te Rōpū Reipa, anō.

        Heoi anō, ko māua māua, ko ō whakaaro e āhukahuka ana ki nōku – “…it appears he thinks he’s better than ordinary hardworking people.” Anō ! Rite tonu te haunga o te tiko o Tau Henare ki ngā rōpā.

        Auē Tau !!! Kaua e wareware koe ‘He rei ngā niho, he parāoa ngā kauae’ ? Koia kei a koe…..
        Kaore a koe, Tau, e mōhio ki te rerekētanga o te pono me te tipatipa; ākene pea ??? Ākene pea he arero rua?
        Pōkokohua mā, NATIONAL; me mutu ēnā mahi haitutu – ēnei ture whakarihariha.
        Kaua tētahi tangata i puritia i roto i te tikanga whakapononga. Kua noho ko te ngaringariā ki runga koutou katoa, Nāhinara !

  25. Iprent

    The delorean solution?

    Awesome that you reference back to the future, apart from that tightyrighty made a good point.

    • lprent 26.1

      But the post was on the parliamentarians making decisions for their cleaners. Party headquarters staff are not parliamentarians, not in parliament, and are not paid for by parliamentary services.

      In other words TR was quite clearly doing a diversion from the post. If he wanted to make that “good point” then he should have done it outside of Zet’s post. He can either do it on his own blog or he can start a thread in OpenMike. Of course I could have just given him a 6 month ban – which was my first instinct (I really am irritated by people doing that). If I see him doing it again, then that is exactly what he will get.

      Posts are written on a topic by someone taking the effort and giving up the time to write them. Have some arsehole trying to divert the commentary by doing an off-topic first few comments just pisses me off. Anyone who does it and who doesn’t take the effort to at least try to relate it to the actual content of the post from now on will be taking a big risk with their comment writing privileges.

      • Brett Dale 26.1.1

        Iprent:

        Isnt that was these message boards are about though?

        An OP may write something, but people may take something else from it, thus the different comments.

        • lprent 26.1.1.1

          On this site they should at least relate to the context of the post or parent comments. Just dropping something completely random and out of context into a discussion and causing the author to look at their post and ask “why in the hell did I bother to write this?” isn’t helpful. I need authors way way more than I need arrogant shithead commenters who upset them.

          For something that is completely out of context like TR’s comment, there is the daily OpenMike and other more general purpose comment posts – which we don’t moderate for diversion and context.

          TR or anyone else who wants to drop out of context comments into other posts apart from OpenMike or open posts should now consider carefully if they want to leave comments here anytime in the foreseeable future. I like people to be able to assess risks…

          That was what got Jenny a 6 week ban and several others banned recently. But looking at TR, it is apparent that I haven’t made the consequences plain enough.

    • miravox 26.2

      “apart from that tightyrighty made a good point.”

      S/he did? Can’t see it myself.

  26. bad12 27

    According to the Herald online MP Raymond Henare has now apologized for what He said about one of Parliaments cleaners Mareta Sinoti,

    Mrs Sinoti may wish to forgive Henare his intemperate comment but i for one find that this particular scab festering on the body politic of New Zealand should be lanced as soon as possible, hopefully by National realizing the damage His comments have done and they consigning Him to the lowest ranking on their Party List,

    Having changed His political over-coat on various occasions during His life Henare appears to have no beliefs other than those which keep his snout in the trough of the public purse,

    His claim that He has ‘cleaned toilets befor’ is spurious considering the years He has spent partying and party hopping at the expense of those who daily toil to clean His mess,

    This scab denigrating the efforts of hard working Kiwis who toil daily for little reward should be surgically removed and the sooner the better…

  27. Ennui 28

    Lets answer some of the idiots like Tighty and Brett…the women doing the toilet cleaning would I suspect prefer not to. I am not too proud to admit I have cleaned toilets for dollars whilst a student and it was not pleasant or desirable BUT it was entirely necessary. Somebody has to do this or we end up with highly paid medical specialists treating parliamentarians….

    My viewpoint is that the job is worth far more than we pay for it to be done: the women do not have the luxury of an employment market with viable alternatives. These woman need the money, and all honour to them for putting the needs of their families first in earning an income. Consequently the stock in trade Right wing nonsense spouted by Tau has no validity.

    On another note to all commentators here, why oh why do we describe toilet cleaning as a lowly job? Have we no respect for those who do the things we need done most? These people fill a societal role that is far more valuable and honorable than those professions that seek to restrict entry and charge us for their privileged status…forex floor traders and merchant bankers come to mind.

    • mac1 28.1

      Ennui, you are right on the money.

      Toilet cleaning is not a lowly job.

      I cleaned toilets all this week as a cleaner.

      I once went on a summer camp where the camper participants shared the cleaning/cooking/ type jobs.
      A medical doctor chose the toilets job, which he did thoroughly. I asked him why he chose them as his contribution. His reply was “Less work for me as a doctor.”

      Toilet cleaning is an essential job.

  28. Brian 29

    Thanks Tau!! – you have helped show the nation the true side of the National party.

    What a star!

  29. Draco T Bastard 30

    The low pay that cleaners and other low paid but critical jobs get is what I’m referring to when I say that a Universal Income will increase wages. Given that a UI of a reasonable amount* will give these people a choice as to doing the low paid job or getting a better education and thus a better income means that to get people to do these jobs will mean that they will need to be paid more.

    * Well above present UB rates.

  30. Bill 31

    Cleaning up other peoples’ shit or whatever may not be exactly pleasant. But there is, perhaps, a deeper issue being missed (I haven’t read all the comments, so don’t know if it’s been picked up on).

    The fact that cleaners probably work to a very tight timetable and have about zero say over their work environment is, to me, a bigger issue than what it is they clean.

    Think about it. Day in and day out performing rote tasks and having no more input than an automaton. It’s that that’s soul destroying and far more deserving of compensation than some managerial type who has the luxury of managing their time and tasks to some degree as well as, possibly, input to their work environment in general.

    • karol 31.1

      Yep. I see that with the weekend cleaners where I work. Hard regime. But they have been saving for many years, and can afford a little bit of an improvement to the families lives.

      All would be disappointment if they got their pay or jobs cut.

    • The fact that cleaners probably work to a very tight timetable and have about zero say over their work environment is, to me, a bigger issue than what it is they clean.

      I see that at my work. Every time the contract is renewed, it goes to a different company, because that company has tendered a lower price, which is predicated on giving fewer cleaners less time to clean the damn building. The staff working in the building (and this infuriates me just about the most) then proceed to complain about the poor sods who have to empty their rubbish bins and clean their fucking toilets not doing a good enough job! Bottom line: Bridges, Henare, everyone else in the government currently involved in fucking cleaners up the arse, and their fellow travellers DPF et al, are fuckwits who deserve a good beating.

  31. Darien Fenton 32

    Tau apologised. So now its Simon Bridge’s turn. And at the same time withdraw his employment law changes to show he means it.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 32.1

      Hi Darien,

      Thanks for coming along to the Standard,
      Labour is looking very good these days, please keep up the team spirit.

      Tau Henare can apologize for the deep-seated beliefs he holds all he likes, however we know that he still believes these things because he continues to belong to a political party that follows through with the type of uninsightful, uncompassionate, and shortsighted views that his comment displayed; so. really, it is clear that the apology will only ever be an insincere one.

  32. BrucetheMoose 33

    Stuff me. a bit rich coming from this professional bludger. What the hell does this spud contribute to the daily running of the country anyway. Perhaps Tau Bro should try doing this lady’s job for a week before making such criticisms. He would probably melt into the bowl from doing a honest hard days work.

  33. AsleepWhileWalking 34

    What a prick. And his apology does nothing to erase his sneering image from my mind.

    Incidentally these women don’t look young enough to necessarily obtain a student loan – the government has moved to age limit loans. For example if you are in your fifties you can’t necessarily train as a nurse unless you can fund it yourself through some other means. Do people realise what this is doing to older folk?

  34. xtasy 35

    Hah, actually I have been a cleaner once or twice in my “career” in NZ, and I tell you, it was a SHIT job, and I got few thanks for it, no matter how hard I worked. I tell you, I have done almost any job there is in this country, so I am an “all round experienced person”, I suppose.

    But as for cleaners, the deserve the minimum wage of $ 15 at least, which I expect a Labour led government to bring in anyway!

    As for the “qualifications” of cleaners, I admit, in many cases it will leave a fair bit to be desired, but that is not just for cleaners to take note of, New Zealanders as a whole, need to put more effort and emphasis into/on training, qualifications and whatever. Yes, even cleaning is in some ways and “expert” job, as there are many different places to clean, industrial, office, public spaces, whatever, and there are many cleaning agents, chemicals and machinery in use, that need to be learned about.

    The same applies to many other jobs. The “good old days” of just getting a broom or mop to sweep to “clean” a place, to “jump into a truck and drive it”, to “start a fork-hoist and lift a pallet”, to do this or the other, those days are gone. We live in a very different world now, with much specialisation and expectations. I look forward that all this gets rewarded by fair pay, no matter what job is done!

  35. xtasy 36

    Wikipedia on Tau Henare, by the way:

    “As a young boy growing up in Otara, Henare had a contrasting childhood. On one hand, he was told almost before he could walk that his future would be politics,[2] which at times requires statesman-like skills to deal with others. On the other, Otara was “a place where you learn how to survive,” and it required Henare to learn “to be strong, stand up and not take a backward step.”[2] Looking back on his 1960s childhood in 1996, Henare summed it up as one that “taught me to be proud of who I am.”[2] It also later contributed to what he describes as “youthful exuberance” that lead to a 1980s reputation for being a stirrer and a radical.[2]

    In Otara, Henare attended Sir Edmund Hillary Collegiate. During Year 11 (Form 5) when he was 16, Henare passed School Certificate, a former New Zealand secondary school qualification for high school students to progress to Year 12.[2] However, Henare was unsuccessful on his New Zealand University Entrance.[5]

    After his schooling ended in 1978, Henare worked at a variety of positions, including wool cleaner and wool classer, where he was responsible for separating sheep’s wool, organiser for the Northern Clerical Workers’ Union under activist and trade unionist Syd Jackson,[6][7] community worker, advise to the Waitakere City Council, and Department of Internal Affairs adviser.[2] During this period, Henare was unemployed for two years.[2] Also, at the age of 25, Henare was arrested for breaking through a police line and laying a wreath for the Maori Battalion during a royal visit on Anzac Day in 1985.[2]”

    He was a “cleaner” too, a wool classer (secure job, as I learned those days), and actually a “bloody UNIONIST”!!!

    He went into some “community work”, and finally ended up in a public service role, that led to what else?: MP for the Nat(z)ional Party!?

    What a “qualified” career that is for a pompous, arrogant, and up his backside cleaner ridiculer? Does the man have any decency, or even humility?

    Tau Henare is one of the most OVERRATED pollies there are in New Zealand, that is MY view, and I am sure, I am NOT alone!

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_Henare

    • Not Another Sheep 36.1

      “,[2] which at times requires statesman-like skills to deal with others”

      Henare writes (via Curtis post)
      “like I said, I was asked point blank, no background, no anything, what I thought about the person who cleans our toilets in Bowen house”.. [ Here at this point he could have said ‘She is a lovely lady’. Yet, he does connect the dots (that he denies) between the cited two events by following with]… “ I responded by saying well If she didn’t like her job she could give it to someone else.”

      Āhahā Henare…. No flies on him.

  36. Bruce 37

    How low can we go with this anti-worker government. They have got away with way too much.

  37. CeeH 38

    Give Tau a toothbrush to clean his own excrement – I say. Now that would make for a good cartoon.

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