The dirty politics of beating up on Karel Sroubek

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, November 14th, 2018 - 272 comments
Categories: Iain Lees-Galloway, immigration - Tags: , ,

So, I was pretty willing to believe Ian Lees Galloway had made a mistake as immigration minister, and tried to do a reasonable but compassionate thing and simply failed to have all the evidence ready when he decided to let Karel Sroubek conditionally stay in the country.

In reality, we learned today, it turns out the reason the Nats knew so much about this case not because the information was legitimately “in the public domain” like they stated, but because one of their members who ran for a local board is the new partner of Karel’s ex, and they’ve been trying to put a hit out on the minister using deeply personal information, rather than having any legitimate point to make about systemic vulnerabilities in the immigration system or an actual display of lack of judgement. This is a young man, from what we can tell, who boneheadedly went home under a false name for one night despite actually being in danger because he was desperately homesick, and the idea that this trip actually proves he was somehow lying about the corruption involved in his case seems much more in doubt now that the other side of the story is coming out.

https://twitter.com/reedfleming/status/1062213024679845893

https://twitter.com/reedfleming/status/1062217292241489920

The Nats think the superficial politics of this will work for them- it’s certainly fired up their base and people who have no understanding of or compassion for immigrants, and those who don’t get that part of being a country that respects human rights means sometimes you have to grant residency to people who would be endangered in their home country, no matter how seemingly democratic it is. I can think of several reasons, for instance, we could grant residency on compassionate grounds to people from the USA. (honestly being black in the USA right now is probably reason in and of itself, for instance, with the ridiculous lengths people have to go to not to be shot by police there) This was very clearly a very last chance for someone we’ve already detained in New Zealand, anyway, and who had functionally already been a resident here, admittedly under fraudulent circumstances.

It’s not ideal that he smuggled drugs. It’s not ideal that he stole other people’s identities. And it’s not ideal that he has demonstrated repeatedly poor judgement. But you don’t deport someone to a country where they legitimately may be in danger just because they’re not an ideal candidate, especially not when you’re trying to be a kinder government. You make the hard call to be a better person. To say that everyone deserves safety- even those who have preyed on addicts or committed crimes. Because believing in human rights means you believe in them for everyone who’s willing to try and be part of society, even those of us who fail from time to time, and fall short. It means you believe in due process and minimum rights for criminals, and not extraditing them to places that can’t guarantee a fair trial. It means not extraditing people who might face the death penalty. It means all of those things.

I don’t like Lees-Galloways’ values on immigration. I think he’s too conservative and too close to NZ First’s position, one which I find utterly self-defeating in the long run and built on naive populism. But now the information on this case is finally starting to come out, it looks like the Minister has made the right call here, and the key to being right as much as possible is to immediately and aggressively admit when you’re wrong. I briefly thought the Minister had made the wrong call, perhaps because he skimmed the file and information hadn’t been provided to him by his staff, perhaps not. But it sounds like he was completely justified in granting this application for residency even though immigration officers were apparently pushing for deportation, and I hope he upholds his initial decision, and even though I don’t think he’s the right one to do it, I still wish him all the best in reforming an immigration department that has begun to view itself more like a temping agency than an actual immigration service, (we shouldn’t be treating immigrants like they are potential employees and looking just at qualifications all the time, it is potentially racist and discriminatory policy, but we should acknowledge the limits our available infrastructure imposes on our ability to take new migrants to cities like Auckland) and then I hope he embarasses the Nats in the house next time it sits by thoroughly panning them for pretending they were getting this from publicly available information that the Minister “should have known,” when in reality they had an obvious inside source.

I have many criticisms of this government, but this is no longer one of them. I’m comfortable that they made a good (and brave!) call here, and I sincerely hope they stick to it.

272 comments on “The dirty politics of beating up on Karel Sroubek ”

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  1. Kat 1
    14 November 2018 at 8:40 am

    Tell that to the Hosk who again today in the Herald continues the “beat up” and promotion of “superficial politics” by his buddies in the National party. Optics my eye.

    • Jack Ramaka 1.1
      14 November 2018 at 12:55 pm

      The Hosk is a Cock ?

    • crashcart 1.2
      16 November 2018 at 9:34 am

      I haven’t clicked on a Hosking article in months. The guy has a job because he generates click add revenue by spouting dog whistle shit. It gets his followers to click his crap (not going to change), but it also gets those of us who disagree to click it just to see what the latest shit is. I think we would all be better off if we didn’t feed into his cycle.

  2. Sanctuary 2
    14 November 2018 at 8:47 am

    One of the most troubling aspects of the new National party men is a strain of repugnant and rampant misogyny that sees women who have been in relationships with their political enemies as sources of information.

    Be it Luigi Wewge’s cynical exploitation of Bevan Chaung or Jamie-Lee Ross’s serial filandering, or this case, they regard women as a resource to be exploited.

    • mpledger 2.1
      14 November 2018 at 9:43 am

      And Jordan William’s “She’ll no doubt want to root me tomorrow I’ll have to take one for the team to get the details out of her.”
      https://thestandard.org.nz/beware-creepy-men-of-the-right-rawshark-returns-briefly/

    • Jack Ramaka 2.2
      14 November 2018 at 2:54 pm

      All young sex addicts playing pass the parcel in Wellington by the sound of it ?

    • soddenleaf 2.3
      14 November 2018 at 4:18 pm

      oh, ok. so let’s hypothetically raise your misogyny one level. A migrant, desperate or just heavily despicable gets his wife to start a relationship with a politician, to undermine opposition to his migration. And, another thing, how is it his mum, his wife, their offspring are all here in nz. Does that help or harm his case? Who knows but one this for sure, they need a review ofthis case, and National need to growup and help make the best decision by handing over all relevent information. They too easy fall overthemselve beating up on the little guy, or crikjnal, for all the wrong outcomes.

    • Matthew Whitehead 2.4
      14 November 2018 at 6:30 pm

      Fair call.

    • Jo-Anne Cole 2.5
      14 November 2018 at 10:38 pm

      So they’re exactly the same as the old National party men then?

  3. marty mars 3
    14 November 2018 at 8:55 am

    Yep totally agree. Very well stated Matthew, thank you.

  4. Muttonbird 4
    14 November 2018 at 8:58 am

    I’ve not paid much attention to this case because to me it’s always just been National throwing a chew toy to their RW base and trying to deflect from their own internal problems.

    There are far worse criminals (both white and blue collar) in NZ now on residence visas. They are here because of the poor immigration management under the last government. A lot of those drug smugglers haven’t been caught yet but the damage they are doing can be seen in the growing and now normalised meth epidemic.

    What does interest me is how the National Party goes about getting their information for hits on the government. There have been information leaks to the Nats on the Whaitiri case, the Haumaha case, the Sroubek case, and both Curran cases.

    It is hard to know whether the Nats themselves deliberately ‘encourage’ elements in the police and public service (and in the Sroubek case it is pillow-talk) to disclose information damaging to the government, but I wouldn’t bet against it. They do after all have a large war chest with which to buy the enormous amounts of confidential information they’ve been able to lay their hands on recently.

    • Chris T 4.1
      14 November 2018 at 9:44 am

      ” They are here because of the poor immigration management under the last government.”

      Labour gave him residency in 2008

      • Muttonbird 4.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 9:48 am

        I’m talking about the increased Asian gang presence in NZ over the last 10 years under the open door policy of the last National government. They smuggle meth ingredients and now we have a normalised meth epidemic.

        • Jack Ramaka 4.1.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 12:23 pm

          Bolger was warned about this by British Intelligence in Hong Kong but stacked a hissy fit and chose to ignore the warning bells, further Labour & National Governments have been blind to the Chinese modus operandi.

        • Bob 4.1.1.2
          15 November 2018 at 12:52 pm

          To be honest.international criminals have always been here.It went seriously-wrong when Nz let a flood of Hong Kong Nationals in. These are Major players when it comes to crime-especially the drug trade.This, plus the rise of a highly-organised US distribution-franchise (hells angels) has pretty much sealed our fate..

      • Jum 4.1.2
        15 November 2018 at 7:42 pm

        Hey, tricky Chris,

        He was given residency in 2008 under another name, because of his sporting talent.
        Stop trying to turn this into Labour’s fault, when the fake name wasn’t discovered until nats were in in 2011 and he’s still here. Obviously, the nats must have had a reason for letting him stay or they’re just really, really bad at oversight.

    • Jack Ramaka 4.2
      14 November 2018 at 12:29 pm

      Jacindarella and Winnie the Pooh need to flush out the corrupt officials and dismantle the Stazi Network set up by the Hungarian Jew JK, which exists here in NZ in the Police, Intelligence Services and Government Departments. These people are employed to serve the best interests of New Zealanders not Mike Hoskins, Duncan Garner, Simon Bridges, Pulla Benefit and the Canterbury Pie Eating Champ ?

      [Going to leave this unedited as an example of How Not To Comment on TS. Jack, if you go down the ‘blame the Jews’ line again, you’ll be gone. TRP]

  5. Chris T 5
    14 November 2018 at 9:03 am

    I found the people on here standing up for ex-National spin doctor Ross and his harrassment of his staff humourous.

    Now we have reached a new low.

    A gang affiliated, apparently violent enough for the police to put an entire family in witness protection, kidnapping charged, lying, drug smuggling, alleged police beater.

    But hey. It isn’t his fault eh?

    It’s because the opposition are asking mean questions

    • Antoine 5.1
      14 November 2018 at 9:07 am

      The left chooses some strange champions

      A.

      • Cinny 5.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 9:13 am

        No one is championing for karel sroubek.

        The left have been wondering why the nat’s kept on and on about THIS particular case.

        Now people are discovering that it is national party dirty politics rearing it’s ugly head again.

        And national seem to have gone rather quiet on the subject.

        Personally I hope karel sroubeks ex wife is aware that she is probably nothing more than a pawn in a political game.

        The exwife’s new man…. he is very very different from the exhusband, wonder how they hooked up? Was it a set up from the get go.

        Hope the exwife is doing OK.

        • Antoine 5.1.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 9:36 am

          > No one is championing for karel sroubek.

          Matthew is, he says it was a ‘good and brave call’ to give him residency.

          A.

          [MjW: Don’t put words in my mouth. That is not me holding up Karel as an exemplar by any means, it is me reluctantly conceding that ILG showed good judgement in this instance, and that we need to allow Karel to stay to be consistent with our own values, not because he’s a good guy. The danger that someone would present me as actually supporting ILG is also why I also mention I disagree with him and think he’s a bad pick for Immigration, so the whole idea of anyone being the Left’s Champion here is amazingly off-topic.

          You need to be reasonably careful how you represent what I say in future, as I don’t have as much time to play Mr. Nice Moderator as I used to, and consistently lying about what I have said in the main post will get you short bans.]

          • mpledger 5.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 9:45 am

            That’s not championing for Karel Sroubek, that’s championing the right call when the right call is balanced on a knife’s edge.

            • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 9:57 am

              It wasn’t a good call, it was a very dumb, hastily made call that should have been an easy no

              • Antoine …
                14 November 2018 at 10:14 am

                I also see no knife edge here

                A.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  14 November 2018 at 10:16 am

                  Agreed. No matter what National did or didn’t do it was ILG that signed off on someone he shouldn’t have and is now trying to save himself by throwing his staff under the bus

                  • OnceWasTim …
                    14 November 2018 at 1:46 pm

                    oh ffs! here we go! I was waiting for someone (surprisingly or not YOU @PR) to bring out the ‘throwing his staff under the bus’ line.
                    I guess you’re not as clever as I was giving you credit for

                  • Gabby …
                    14 November 2018 at 4:35 pm

                    Looks like under the bus is where some of his staff belong puckers. That may be where the nat cat dragged them in from.

        • marty mars 5.1.1.2
          14 November 2018 at 9:39 am

          + 1 yep cinny – dirty gnat dirty tricks.

        • Chris T 5.1.1.3
          14 November 2018 at 9:44 am

          “And national seem to have gone rather quiet on the subject.”

          So have Labour

          It’s called parliament being in recess

          • mpledger 5.1.1.3.1
            14 November 2018 at 9:46 am

            Good to know that the point matters less then holidays to National.

          • Cinny 5.1.1.3.2
            14 November 2018 at 10:43 am

            One would of thought when parliament was in recess that the opposition would be shouting from the roof tops to get attention.

            But hey what do I know, i’ve only been watching almost every question time for near on a decade and following politics since I was at primary school.

            • Chris T 5.1.1.3.2.1
              14 November 2018 at 10:53 am

              Why would they when the govt can make an excuse not to be around to answer?

              • Cinny …
                14 November 2018 at 11:30 am

                Publicity, appealing to voters with new ideas/info and so on.

                Yes the govt. can make an excuse to not be around to answer during recess, but one would of thought any opposition party would take full advantage of such situations.

                Just because something has always been done a certain way, is no reason for not making changes

              • McFlock …
                14 November 2018 at 11:50 am

                Seriously? the government choosing to not defend itself would be bad for the opposition’s scaremongering?

                • Chris T …
                  14 November 2018 at 12:10 pm

                  It would make a very uninteresting story that less people would hear about.

                  • Cinny …
                    14 November 2018 at 2:58 pm

                    Do some politicians only bring matters up if they think it would make an ‘interesting story’?

                    Dang that’s sad as.

              • veutoviper …
                14 November 2018 at 4:15 pm

                Make excuses not to be around?

                Do you mean like the fact that Winston Peters (DPM and Minister of Foreign Affairs) has been overseas since mid last week on Foreign Affairs business, including the Armistice Day commemorations in France, also attended by Merkel, Trump, Putin and many other heads of State?

                Or Jacinda Ardern now being in Singapore for the ASEAN Summit and then PNG for the next five days for APEC – sans baby and partner who have remained in NZ?

                Peters is on his way back to join Ardern and Parker for these meetings.

                Perfect opportunity for the Opposition to try to score some points on the home ground.

                But what of Bridges? No tweets for days, no press statements for days …..

                Have the BBQs been brought out and brushed off – well away from Tauranga?

                • Mike …
                  21 November 2018 at 1:08 am

                  “No tweets for days, no press statements for days”

                  If you count blog posts as statements the same could be said of Whaleoil.

              • Matthew Whitehead …
                14 November 2018 at 6:47 pm

                For the opposition, keeping up the pressure on the government, being seen as effective politicians, you name it.

                If they thought they could get a good interview on this topic anymore they would be lining up- suddenly Woodhouse is nowhere to be seen though as soon as the personal connection was revealed.

                For the government, they’ve been pretty consistent in their low availability for this story after the first day or so, it’s not exactly new.

        • Enough is Enough 5.1.1.4
          14 November 2018 at 12:08 pm

          “The left have been wondering why the nat’s kept on and on about THIS particular case.”

          Because that is what a decent opposition should do. Pull up the government for its dumb decisions.

          Why try and frame this as left v right?

          Government Ministers have and will make dumb decisions. It should not matter from our perspective what side of Politics they support or stand for. When they fuck up (whether it be Nick Smith, Judith Collins, Iain Lees-Galloway, or Clare Curran) we should all be calling them out on it.

          Otherwise we are simply partisan cheer leaders.

          • patricia bremner 5.1.1.4.1
            14 November 2018 at 2:27 pm

            ‘Decent opposition’ oxymoron. Conniving scheming lying .. try those .

            • Enough is Enough 5.1.1.4.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 5:10 pm

              Way to miss the point

              • patricia bremner …
                14 November 2018 at 6:34 pm

                Enough is Enough The post is about the sleazy way the Nats got their info.
                You think you are right!! I am not sure you are!! But I am sure the opposition are conniving users and liars.

          • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.1.4.2
            14 November 2018 at 6:55 pm

            This was not a dumb decision, and remember, I was the one who called for firing Clare Curran as a Minister one scandal early because she was not living up to the technical requirements of her open government portfolio and just wasn’t up to the job of Being A Minister in general.

            ILG is absolutely minister material, even though I frequently disagree with him, but the idea we should put someone’s life in danger just because they’re a criminal is abhorrent stuff, and the sort of authoritarian centrism and ignorance of the role of immigration that’s being brought to bear in the criticism of this case does not belong in a modern country.

            To the extent that it’s a political failure, that is the extent to which the electorate itself is wrong.

        • ianmac 5.1.1.5
          14 November 2018 at 2:15 pm

          Yes Cinny. No matter how the Nat Plants try to divert, the essence of Dirty Tricks remain. I don’t think the Nat speakers give a damn about Sroubek or about his wife. They just see a mean chance to make the Minister seem ineffective.
          Wonder what the Review will really show. What if it turns out to be the right call by ILG?

          • Cinny 5.1.1.5.1
            14 November 2018 at 3:01 pm

            Enough is Enough, am hearing you for sure, but something about this just doesn’t sit right.

            For sure Ian, the review will be interesting, and am glad it’s happening,

            It used to be, ‘let’s not talk about it, we are going to do things our way no matter what’.

            It sure is refreshing to have a government who seeks the opinions of others.

    • Matthew Whitehead 5.2
      14 November 2018 at 6:38 pm

      I think now we’ve heard both sides it is pretty credible Karel had reason to fear for his life. I wouldn’t send even David Seymour Or John Key somewhere they were in danger, even though arguably they “deserve” it for how they’ve caused suffering to ordinary New Zealanders. I don’t see why we should treat people whose wrongs are much smaller any differently.

      The opposition’s questions aren’t “mean.” What’s disconcerting is that they were pretending they found out about this case through publicly available information that Lees-Galloway should have known, when in fact all this time they’ve had a personal in. That’s completely inappropriate, and it’s now quite obvious that Lees-Galloway was briefed appropriately.

      • Chris T 5.2.1
        14 November 2018 at 6:45 pm

        Matthew

        There were two other witnesses with him in the trial over there

        They are happy living at home under their real identities.

        He was plastering his image all over the global web forums as a champion kickboxer and rocked off home for a visit.

        I think we can surmise the risk he portrayed is rather over blown.

  6. Antoine 6
    14 November 2018 at 9:06 am

    > But it sounds like he was completely justified in granting this application for residency even though immigration officers were apparently pushing for deportation

    Personally I still think we can do without this Sroubek guy, he seems like a louse, I continue to believe Lees-Galloway made the wrong call, both in hindsight and given the information available at the time

    A.

    • Craig H 6.1
      14 November 2018 at 8:33 pm

      The Minister didn’t grant residency, he suspended the deportation liability – this chap was already a resident.

  7. Bearded Git 7
    14 November 2018 at 9:24 am

    Great post Mathew. Sheds more light on the whole process.

    The Nats will never get back into power while they behave in this nasty underhand dishonest manner. John Key’s clever blokey veneer has long gone.

    One quibble-where is the evidence that ILG is close to NZF’s position on immigration?

  8. Puckish Rogue 8
    14 November 2018 at 9:41 am

    To reiterate what Chris T said:

    “A gang affiliated, apparently violent enough for the police to put an entire family in witness protection, kidnapping charged, lying, drug smuggling, alleged police beater.”

    This is who ILG decided would be a good fit for NZ but apparently its all Nationals fault.

    • mpledger 8.1
      14 November 2018 at 9:48 am

      What’s the bet National kicked the can down the road so Labour would have to deal with it and now cry foul over a decision they were too scared to make.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 9:59 am

        Whats the bet that had the minister taken more than an hour to read the file he might have come up with the correct decision (the correct decision being no)

      • Jack Ramaka 8.1.2
        14 November 2018 at 2:56 pm

        Definitely comes out of the Crosby Textor Dirty Tricks Handbook.

    • adam 8.2
      14 November 2018 at 9:52 am

      Sheesh how to miss the point…

      Mind you, you lie to yourself so often one should not be surprised.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.2.1
        14 November 2018 at 10:01 am

        Unless somehow managed to make ILG make a really bone-headed decision the fault here is with ILG, not National

        At some point the left is going to have stop blaming National for everything and look at the ministers and ask what they’re doing

        I won’t hold my breath though

        • OnceWasTim 8.2.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 10:49 am

          At least try and hold it until there is a long overdue review of the entire system.

        • adam 8.2.1.2
          14 November 2018 at 12:00 pm

          Yeap still on your own waka. Did you even read what the author wrote?

          Because using tired attack lines from the dirty politics handbook is really dull to say the least, and it’s more of the same lies and b.s we got in the ponytail puller years.

          It gets worse, your approach confirms my suspicion, you support modus operandi – dirty politics .

  9. ianmac 9
    14 November 2018 at 10:02 am

    Great post Matthew Whitehead. Pulls together the bits of a mean attack on Mr Galloway. Quite a lot of stuff claimed by Nats was not really true but by innuendo and slur make Ian seem inept. For instance the gang case was dropped I think yet we still have the “witness protection” thing repeated.
    The total picture makes National look desperate/sick.

  10. Chris T 10
    14 November 2018 at 10:26 am

    Well on the upside for the scummy crim’ lovers on here, I doubt he will be leaving anytime soon.

    If Iain “One of the hardest decisions I have to make. In fact it took nearly an hour” Lees Galloway, does cave to pressure and deport him, it will be in the appeals court for years

    • ianmac 10.1
      14 November 2018 at 11:42 am

      Do you know how long an executive summary usually takes to read and digest Chris? I hear that with staff by your side and the summary in front of you, the normal time by previous Immigration Ministers is 65 minutes.

      • Chris T 10.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 12:09 pm

        One would think given the criminal history of the bloke, the police report with the mentioning of the witness protection and the court proceedings report, he would have thought it a good idea to read the main one.

        “I hear”

        That’s nice.

        I hear swimming after eating causes cramp.

        • ianmac 10.1.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 2:22 pm

          So you do not know how long it takes Chris? And yet you and your chums sound so sure. The Executive Summary in any field has to be taken as a true and proper complete report otherwise it would be useless.
          As the great Simon Bridges said recently, “The Immigration Minister is not expected to set out and be a detective.”

          • Chris T 10.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 2:25 pm

            “The Executive Summary in any field has to be taken as a true and proper complete report otherwise it would be useless.”

            No it isn’t

            The clue is in the name “Summary……”

            “The Immigration Minister is not expected to set out and be a detective.”

            He didn’t have to be

            He got the full report given to him with the Summary

    • Matthew Whitehead 10.2
      14 November 2018 at 6:58 pm

      “crim lover” is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in kiwi political debate. That’s the sort of rhetoric that belongs in a Trump speech.

      Believing criminals get to have rights even when they’ve behaved like utter shits, and that we don’t deport people we have reasonable suspicion are in danger a pretty moderate point of view that you’d think even a party high from sniffing “Tuff-on-Crime” all the time would be able to get behind.

      • Chris T 10.2.1
        14 November 2018 at 7:07 pm

        I never said he didn’t have rights.

        He has the right to appeal if he gets deportation orders.

        Which will go on for years

        He also has EU rights as he has an EU passport.

        Meaning the whole danger argument is utter pants, given he can chose to be deported to and live in any EU country he wants to plant his scummy arse in.

        • In Vino 10.2.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 8:08 pm

          Own your own bullshit, Chris T.
          “Crim lover (should be hyphenated) is a low blow, indeed worthy of a rabble-rouser such as Trump. And even when you whine that you are being reasonable, you then speak (so eloquently) of ‘his scummy arse.’
          Your language reflects only your own ghastly state of mind.
          You need to work out whether you belong in a civilised discussion or a septic tank.

          • Chris T 10.2.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 8:11 pm

            If you want to make out he is a victim go for it.

            Don’t expect others to not have contempt for the scumbag

            • In Vino 10.2.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 8:34 pm

              Another infantile response. I am NOT making out he is a victim, but you seem to have a primitive desire to believe so.
              And then you still resort to emotive language – ‘scumbag’.
              I tell you again – using words like that tells us more about your own state of mind than anything else.

              • Chris T …
                14 November 2018 at 8:39 pm

                You have on this very page people morphing “National” and “Nazi” and calling their non preferred party Natz.

                You have someone slagging Key off for because he is jewish and they are obvious anti-semetic.

                You have posters accusing National of manipulating loads of “helpless” women with no evidence.

                Forgive me if I find your focus on my calling the Czech a scumbag while you ignore this quite laughable

                • I feel love …
                  14 November 2018 at 8:47 pm

                  The weird jew snark got jumped on promptly, or did you selectively not notice? & not everyone makes infantile nicknames. You have been called out, own your bullshit, you spout it, you own it.

    • reason 10.3
      15 November 2018 at 9:12 am

      your a joke chris t …………….. when it comes to “scummy crim’ lovers ” …. count yourself as one.

      Your a cynical opportunist ………. who is totally indifferent to a double killer of NZ women not being removed from our country.

      I bet your also indifferent to national taking bribes / large secret donations…..

      or have you been speaking out about that ??????

      Nah

  11. Jum 11
    14 November 2018 at 10:31 am

    Newstalk ZB – are they now part of the dirty politics campaign?

  12. SaveNZ 12
    14 November 2018 at 10:42 am

    Sadly our immigration policy does not seem to value the public’s safety or even fairness in their choices. Why should criminals wanted and/or convicted in two countries and with possible protection orders against his ex partner get residency here.

    Even worse when apparently much better immigration candidates are turned away because they don’t want to commit crimes and lie on the forms while those who do that, even when caught are championed and supported by immigration lawyers to stay here .

    Committing a crime and being in jail should AUTOMATICALLY mean that applicants can get residency here. It should be a no brainer, but nope as usual all the woke lefties are keen to throw ordinary Kiwis and migrants under the bus to champion this wonderful cause.

    Who cares about the Natz views. They are worse because they set up the situation of having all these criminals coming here no questions asked in the first place.

    Wah, wah, he was homesick that’s why he left. Please,,,,,, more likely to be to further some criminal activity…

    And the EU is a BIG place with many different countries he can hide out in and continue his criminal ways, we have enough criminals in NZ, the last thing we need is more of them being encouraged by immigration ministers to create our 100% pure criminal NZ, that that labour and National and who knows how many other political parties, seem keen to promote here.

    • Antoine 12.1
      14 November 2018 at 10:52 am

      “cannot get residency”

      A.

    • OnceWasTim 12.2
      14 November 2018 at 1:10 pm

      Careful using the term ‘immigration lawyers’ (as opposed to advisors).
      The legitimate ones (and I’m not in anyway one of them) often get tarred with the same brush as charlatans operating. In fact the gNats made an industry out of them – at one time (if they aren’t still) promoted on INZ’s own website.
      It should have stuck out like a dog’s balls, that where they had an interest in other little enterprises – such as a private tertiary institution, or a labour recruitment/hire agency, or a ‘security’ firm’, or even a bloody beauty salon when there was supposedly a shortage of hairdressers on a skill shortage list – there might just be the possibility of a scam or two going on. It was all part of the industrialisation of immigration, based on economic imperatives rather than any overall commitment or social benefit to the country, and unfortunately it’s only very slowly changing.

      And that’s just ONE aspect of NZ’s immigration policies over the past decade (and more).

    • Matthew Whitehead 12.3
      14 November 2018 at 7:20 pm

      Uh, yes it does consider that, and in fact we’re so restrictive in our immigration rules that the US Republicans can’t pass the points-based system we use to make our decisions because it’s a political non-starter there. Immigration even gets an explicit carve out from BORA.

      (Our immigration system is also the one AfD, noted neo-nazis, would like to institute in Germany)

  13. Laijouchan 13
    14 November 2018 at 10:52 am

    re: Corruption in the Czech Republic from Radio.cz…”Why the Czech Republic scored worse in corruption index”

    “We see a lot of cases that got stuck in judicial procedures and they are seen as the flagship of the anti-corruption fight. And lastly we see a trend of state capture which is very visible….”

    “We see that some powerful groups are really able to influence and rig the rules of the game so they actually don’t have to do anything illegal. They are able to adjust regulations so that they legitimizes their behavior. I think that’s what needs to be discussed because this is the form of grand corruption that we are talking about.”

    https://www.radio.cz/en/section/marketplace/why-the-czech-republic-scored-worse-in-corruption-index

    To quote the great Stan Lee (RIP), ’nuff said

    • SaveNZ 13.1
      14 November 2018 at 12:22 pm

      He does not have to settle in Czech Republic he can go anywhere in the EU aka 28 countries in Europe. Czech Republic is a member of the EU and there is free movement between the countries.

  14. SaveNZ 14
    14 November 2018 at 10:53 am

    Should read

    Committing a crime and being in jail should AUTOMATICALLY mean that applicants CAN’T get residency here.

    • SaveNZ 14.1
      14 November 2018 at 10:58 am

      Not sure if true but I also read that he qualifies for legal aid, what a joke if true, especially as apparently he owns a house and business here, surly legal aid should be for citizens only!!!!

      So no doubt after all this he will be championed and supported by immigration lawyers to stay here and paid for by hardworking folks taxes just like his prison stay, police and justice system also paid for by hardworking folks taxes.

      And I though the immigration criteria was that migrants are not supposed to be a drain on the NZ taxpayer to get residency here.

      Clearly that was also ‘skipped’ in the hardest decision of Iain’s life (as he’s already probably cost more than $500,000 to Kiwi taxpayers and he’s only been here a few years, imagine the cost over a lifetime,) which only took Iain 1 hour as well as the bungling officials who recommended him to stay (presumably).

  15. Jum 15
    14 November 2018 at 11:06 am

    Puckish Rogue 8.2.1
    14 November 2018 at 10:01 am
    ‘stop blaming National for everything’

    After I’d stopped laughing having witnessed your nats key n co govt blaming Labour for everything, for nine long years, including it seems, for daring to leave national in a good place financially to manage the GFC, because it meant nats couldn’t put into place austerity measures to sell off what little was left of our strategic assets, I thought about why I blame national.

    I well remember key screaming over several long years that Labour should be giving out tax cuts after it had achieved a surplus. I can only assume key knew some nasty financials were coming down the line. He was supposed to be such a financial whizz after all. But, Cullen was too clever for him, on our behalf. Same with Auckland takeover, where nats wanted to steal all Aucklanders’ assets but the people won and picked two non asset seller mayors.

    I blame national for being born in 1936 with the sole purpose of destroying the people’s party The Labour Party.
    They almost succeeded in 2017 until Ardern arrived. No fault of Little, yet another principled man in Labour.
    They almost succeeded in 1984-90 by moving in cuckoos now called act – that betrayal was probably a nat agenda, but definitely on behalf of greed -local and international.
    They almost succeeded in 2009 – 2017 by america’s stooge coming in and almost turning NZ into a fxckfest of greed and sending worker rights back to the 19thC.

    I blame national for making misogyny okay because it, on reaching government in 2008, stopped the research on pay equity, and now exploits women for political gain – JLR, Carel Sroubek case, etc.

    I blame national for just being and for turning very good nat supporter friends of mine into voting for hypocrisy and corruption, because they’ve always voted for national and with no principled mainstream media uncovering of national’s dirty politics because supporters refused to read Hollow Men and Dirty Politics, truth seems to have no place with them. But that is national, isn’t it. Truth gets in the way of profit.

    The contempt I feel now – and I couldn’t believe that national could be any worse in my eyes – has been surpassed. Congratulations on being absolute proof of everything I hate about greed.

    Labour must watch its back – the creatures from the nat lagoon have only just begun.

    • Nick 15.1
      14 November 2018 at 12:43 pm

      +1 Jum

    • Jack Ramaka 15.2
      14 November 2018 at 1:24 pm

      Most National voters are clones born and bred, their wives and children will follow suit, they are clones which breed in amongst themselves like the Exclusive Bretheren, and the private school folk of Remuera & Fendalton.

    • mary_a 15.3
      14 November 2018 at 1:48 pm

      Great comments there Jum (15). Thanks.

      • Jum 15.3.1
        14 November 2018 at 5:29 pm

        My pleasure, Mary_A, I hate to see good politicians attacked in the interests of creatures with no moral base. Just base.

    • patricia bremner 15.4
      14 November 2018 at 6:49 pm

      I have said previously, National supporters are most dangerous when they are likely to be exposed. They will try to win every way possible. They play dirty.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 15.4.1
        15 November 2018 at 1:22 pm

        The only good thing ILG has done politically is divert attention from the failure of kiwibuild. Small wonder he’s still in his position.

        Soubreks new partner has friends in high places too it seems

  16. Whacked 16
    14 November 2018 at 11:15 am

    Sounds like Immigration NZ are seriously politicised. I suspect there will be a few polishing up their CV’s looking for another public service fiefdom to be part of after the investigation into this case comes out. The Nats will claim the Minister is throwing them under the bus. It’s part of the process of restoring the public service to being apolitical however. All this will back fire on the Nats. Gosh they desperately need a leader with at least a modicum of integrity but they won’t find him or her in their current fetid state.

  17. Gosman 17
    14 November 2018 at 11:27 am

    Czechia is a stable and prosperous central European country that is part of the EU and has a number of safeguards in place protecting citizens rights (including against corruption). It isn’t a tinpot dictatorship where there is no rule of law. The idea that someone will be at risk if they go back to the country from the “authorities” is frankly fanciful.

    • Jum 17.1
      14 November 2018 at 11:47 am

      Gosman,
      If a mother who obviously loves her son but says he’s safer in NZ and she has to return to her own country, and doesn’t get to see him, unless she visits again, then I believe her not you.
      https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018671052/karel-sroubek-s-mother-mila-give-him-one-last-chance

      ‘has a number of safeguards in place protecting citizens rights (including against corruption). It isn’t a tinpot dictatorship where there is no rule of law. ‘

      Golly, Gosman, you just described NZ, yet look what national is doing, trying to reverse that status, by using underhand tactics to try to bring a good Minister like Lees-Galloway down.

      If I was Labour, I’d start looking sideways at all officials. Have national turned them into something other than non-partisan advisers to Government on All New Zealanders’ behalf?

      Maybe the blogging serfs of national have done us all a favour by giving us clear evidence of national’s activities with officials, while in government.

      I want to trust that taxpayer-paid officials are working on our behalf, not someone else’s agenda – here or internationally.

      • Gosman 17.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 12:58 pm

        National is doing the job you would expect an opposition party to do. It is holding Government Ministers to account for decisions they make. Or do you think the Opposition should not do that?

        • ianmac 17.1.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 2:26 pm

          “It is holding Government Ministers to account for decisions they make.”
          What a pity they didn’t do that. Instead they muck rake and sneer and fabricate. Who would want such people to be MPs in Government? The are the despised ones.

        • Jack Ramaka 17.1.1.2
          14 November 2018 at 2:59 pm

          Dirty Tricks 101 & 102 Gossie Parliament is turning into Sesame Street IMHO ?

        • Matthew Whitehead 17.1.1.3
          14 November 2018 at 7:09 pm

          I’d like them to actually tell us where they got their information from, rather than pretending it was publicly available when it wasn’t, for one. It makes a big difference in whether ILG could have reasonably been expected to know of Karel’s return to the Czech republic, and undermines their criticism of this case’s handling rather deeply, and turns it into a cheap appeal to anti-immigration and Tuff-on-Crime gutter politics that doesn’t actually try to make the country better in any discernable way.

          Secondly, I think it’s actually quite ridiculous to imply that spending one day in the Czech republic under a false name is proof he was never in danger. It’s a boneheaded move, to be sure, but it is not “aaaah but he thought he was safe!” material if he listened to his mum and left pretty much as soon as possible.

          Thirdly, if the Czech republic is a prospering democracy and we’re a place where Karel has been locked up and has limited access to his family support network, why the hell else would he want to stay here? You can’t have things both ways, either his home country is safe and great in which case there’s no real motive for wanting residency, or it’s a dangerous place for him and worth leaving his family behind despite his being so homesick he went under a false name. There is no plausible motive backed by evidence for the counter-factual.

      • Jimmy 17.1.2
        14 November 2018 at 1:40 pm

        His mother says he nice boy so we should grant him residency. LOL. He went back to Czech twice? by his own choice!

    • Jack Ramaka 17.2
      14 November 2018 at 12:35 pm

      Jacindarella and Winnie the Pooh need to harden up and get rid of the prick ?

      Along with all the Asian Meth Dealers & Vagabonds let in under the corrupt Natzi Government ?

    • McFlock 17.3
      14 November 2018 at 12:43 pm

      And yet googling “czech republic corruption” returns sooo many articles…

  18. Stuart Munro 18
    14 November 2018 at 11:27 am

    Immigration cases are always bound to be fraught. I’m not particularly impressed with the decision, we’re letting far too many people in as it is – half the reason we have a housing crisis. And, I recall the gnats Labour endlessly strained over Ahmed Zaoui, who unlike Sroubeck was not criminal.

    It’d be good to see a few pegs in the ground on immigration:

    *Working or associating with a fake employment scheme automatically reverses residency and nullifies appeals. Pull that shit and you’re gone.

    * Convictions resulting in imprisonment likewise end all attempts to gain residency.

    *Abusing foreign staff by underpaying or the like results in a permanent loss of access to that work force.

    The ongoing reports that immigration lacks the staff to investigate reported problems shows how irresponsibly this critical function has been and is still being handled. Either reduce inflows until the immigration service can cope, or hire more staff until they can cope. There’s no excuse for letting everything just go to hell in a handcart.

    • Puckish Rogue 18.1
      14 November 2018 at 11:38 am

      Yeah I’d agree with that

    • Jum 18.2
      14 November 2018 at 11:58 am

      Some good points indeed, but let us not forget, we have a few people probably worse; I’d like to have a few deported and can’t e.g.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrett_(politician)
      with an assault conviction in 2002 and stealing a baby’s name for a passport

      Just in case we think we’re holier than thou, we actually let him into parliament.
      We let Thiel into NZ because he’s a billionaire. Funny how wealth seems to sanitise people’s characters.

      • reason 18.2.1
        15 November 2018 at 9:23 am

        Peter Thiel’s Palantir worked with Cambridge Analytica on the Facebook data, whistleblower alleges

        Whistleblower claims Palantir worked with Cambridge Analytica on the Facebook data breach
        5:44 PM ET Tue, 27 March 2018 | 01:18

        https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/27/palantir-worked-with-cambridge-analytica-on-the-facebook-data-whistleblower.html

        Palantir, a secretive company co-founded by billionaire Peter Thiel, worked with Cambridge Analytica, the political analysis firm that harvested data from Facebook users, whistleblower Christopher Wylie told U.K. lawmakers Tuesday.

        “Senior Palantir employees” then worked on the Facebook profile data that was acquired by Cambridge Analytica, Wylie claimed.

        Cambridge Analytica claimed it worked on all the digital aspects of Donald Trump’s 2016 election campaign. Thiel is a well-known supporter of Trump and donated over $1 million to his campaign. He is also on the board of Facebook. Steve Bannon, who was a top executive at Cambridge Analytica, led Trump’s campaign.

        Palantir has previously done work for the National Security Agency and is backed by the CIA’s not-for-profit venture capital firm.

    • RedLogix 18.3
      14 November 2018 at 12:03 pm

      Same here. Immigration to countries like NZ is a highly desired privilege worldwide. Abuse it and you lose it.

      Having said that, there will always be complex cases like this one on which we should eat on the side of compassion.

      • Antoine 18.3.1
        14 November 2018 at 12:06 pm

        I can’t see how it is complex, the guy is simply a scumbag. Is he not?

        A.

        • Jum 18.3.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 12:14 pm

          Key’s a scumbag and did far more damage to NZ; can we deport him somewhere Antoine?

          • Antoine 18.3.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 12:22 pm

            I’m neither talking to you nor talking about Key; I’m asking RedLogix about his views about Sroubek

            A.

            • Jum 18.3.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 12:44 pm

              Antoine,

              If you want to have a quiet chat with RedLogix, get a room.

              But if you’re on here, I’ll continue to analyze your comments and add my own.

              Shame you can’t understand that an ex prime minister technically assaulting a waitress and using two bodyguards and his so called status to shut down her rights to privacy of her own body,
              is so much worse
              because he encourages the whole New Zealand population to believe it is okay to treat women badly (hence part of this particular post and thread).

              Is this part of the natzi regime – try to shut down freedom to comment?

          • Jack Ramaka 18.3.1.1.2
            14 November 2018 at 12:36 pm

            Send him back to Hungary with George Soros ?

        • RedLogix 18.3.1.2
          14 November 2018 at 1:59 pm

          If this case was so black and white, then I’m sure the decision would have been as easy as you would like to pretend it is. My sense is that there is information we don’t and shouldn’t know about this case that makes it impossible for us to make an informed call.

          • Antoine 18.3.1.2.1
            14 November 2018 at 11:23 pm

            Until someone in authority tells us this information (or even tells us that it exists, without being able to specify the nature of it), it is hard to avoid being critical

            A.

            • JC 18.3.1.2.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 11:30 pm

              Typical RWNT response!

              “Until Someone in Authority tells “us” ….

              FFS!

              You are in absolute “Authority” as to what you want to THINK, and/or read, and/or believe …

              Get a life or are you Fine with being just “Critical”

              J.

              • Antoine …
                14 November 2018 at 11:36 pm

                I’m not right wing, I have a life, and I am not ashamed of being ‘critical’ of drug dealers and their enablers. Plenty of the regulars here feel the same way, see e.g. SaveNZ

                A.

                • JC …
                  14 November 2018 at 11:52 pm

                  Oh OK, so what Save NZ says, and off course (“Plenty of the regulars here”) means it’s OK to NOT think for yourself ….

                  Perhaps you might consider extending your horizons…

                  Or, do you just live in “Your” own vacuum?

                  J.

                  • Antoine …
                    14 November 2018 at 11:55 pm

                    I do think for myself and this is what I’ve come up with. If the Government wants to come forward with more facts (e.g. that a deal was cut with Sroubek as an informant) then that might change my view.

                    A.

      • SaveNZ 18.3.2
        14 November 2018 at 12:23 pm

        I think there are plenty of migrants that need our compassion more than this privileged criminal with plenty of options.

        • Jack Ramaka 18.3.2.1
          14 November 2018 at 3:01 pm

          Sounds like he has been a Police & Government informant so they probably owe him a few favours ? Just reading between the lines ?

      • Stuart Munro 18.3.3
        14 November 2018 at 1:52 pm

        I agree about erring on compassion – but the refugee test: “a well-founded fear of persecution” is the test for that. Sroubeck should ordinarily be declined residency for criminality, but may be admitted as a refugee, if his fears are well-founded.

        • SaveNZ 18.3.3.1
          14 November 2018 at 2:52 pm

          He’s got 28 countries to hide in back in the EU, nobody put a gun to his head to be a criminal.

          He’s an easier target in NZ, but my guess is that he’s got a cosy place here with organised crime and EU drug connections to help the international drug trade here and is keen to stay and be a big drug importer fish in a small sea, rather than a small fish in a big sea.

          Probably so much more advancement in the criminal world in NZ than EU, less criminal glass ceilings no doubt!!

    • Jack Ramaka 18.4
      14 November 2018 at 1:00 pm

      The more crooked you are and how big your cheque book is, goes a long way with the NZ Immigration Department especially under the last 9 years of the John Key Natzi Government

    • Matthew Whitehead 18.5
      14 November 2018 at 7:16 pm

      I agree the nats have strained our infrastructure, but the price of someone’s life is always more precious than inconvenience, which is essentially the case you’re trying to make here by pulling a “we’re full.”

      We should also recall that “we’re full” has a pretty sordid history if you look back at it as a rhetorical device.

      Really, the only thing I agree with is your last point- let’s make employers who are making the case that they need siginificant amounts of immigrant labour get properly inspected, and revoke their privileges to hire non-residents if they can’t meet the legal obligations of a good employer. That’s eminently fair.

      But we already consider offending and fraudulent behaviour in residency applications, there’s no real reason to make stupid zero-tolerance rules that obliterate the ability to use human discretion.

  19. Sabine 19
    14 November 2018 at 11:54 am

    can someone explain to me whom the guy is afraid of in the Czech Republic.

    Its the fearing for his life that i have a bit of a hard time wrapping my mind around. Is it the government there that he is afraid of or the criminal underworld?

    The Czech Republic, last i checked, is not really known for killing people.

    So really the question should be asked, whom – in the Czech Republic – is he afraid of, and if he can’t live there, could he live anywhere else in the Europe, as many Czech do.

    • veutoviper 19.1
      14 November 2018 at 12:16 pm

      Exactly the question I have been wondering.

      Have you listened to the RNZ Checkpoint interview with Sroubek’s mother last night? It is the link enbedded in the second paragraph of the post.

      Putting aside the ‘mother pleading for her son’ aspects (which I find understandable regardless of any circumstances), the interview clarified some things for me. I have just pulled up the recording and related article and the latter says:

      “When asked if she believed he could be killed if he returned using his real name, she replied: “That could happen. Yes. I really believe that. There are many cases like that in the Czech Republic.”

      She accepted the situation looked bad, but said he was young at the time and wasn’t thinking “straight”.

      “I can understand his feelings, that he was homesick, and wanted to visit his own home even for a very short time.”

      But she said it would be different if he travelled home using his real name, saying they did not trust the justice system or the police to protect him.”

      I am taking from the wording “to protect him” that his mother was implying that it is probably the criminal underworld that he is primarily afraid of; but that the justice system/police might not do their utmost to ensure his safety …

      Here is another link to the recording of the full interview and the accompanying article:

      https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018671052/karel-sroubek-s-mother-mila-give-him-one-last-chance

      • Sabine 19.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 12:28 pm

        ok, but would that prevent him from living anywhere else in Europe.
        as for the criminal element, they could also come here in kill him.’

        what is the actual proof that he is in danger of his life. Like seriously.

        there is this fellow from Pakistan who is going to be deported https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/367091/nz-resident-involved-in-people-smuggling-to-be-deported

        Quote” He suffered threats to his life on his last visit there, she said, and deportation would result in the permanent separation from his family to whom he was a “pillar of support”.

        The tribunal heard he was the subject of an open fraud investigation by the police in relation to his directorship of a car company. The sum under investigation is said to be substantial.

        It ruled he did have exceptional humanitarian circumstances because of his wife and stepson’s health issues but it would not be unduly harsh to deport him.

        “[His] concealment of his deportation from the United States (bolstered by his concealment of ever having lived there, or in Canada) went to the heart of his residence application,” it said, in its written decision.” Quote End.

        so really, i can’t see this as the issue here. The Czech Republic is a relatively safe place, the police there is no more and no less corrupt than in many other places in the caucasian/european union world. To boot, he has the option of living anywhere else without needing to apply for a permit of any kind anywhere with in the European Union.

        Sorry but it does not add up.

        • veutoviper 19.1.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 12:53 pm

          No need to be sorry, Sabine, I was in no way making a case one way or the other as to whether Sroubek should be allowed to stay or be deported. There are so many strands to this particular case and Sreubek’s safety etc if he is returned to the Czech Republic is just one.

          Another big factor for me is that, having worked as a full career public servant in Wellington, I am well aware of the ‘shortcomings’ – to put it mildly – of the Immigration Dept over decades, not just years.

          I believe that there is a lot more water to go under the bridge on the Sroubek case – AND the politics internally in the Dept and the role of the Nat party/Government in this particular case.

          Ideally I would hope that the time and depth will be given to the investigation so that the ‘shortcomings’ overall, and not just in the Sroubek case, are exposed and lead to a long overdue major bomb under that particular dept. I think I am probably being a little too hopeful, however, as there are so many other things to also be fixed. Indications are that the PM wants this one over and done with and out of the way asap. Not a criticism per se; just the realities of what the government has on its plate at present.

          • Sabine 19.1.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 1:01 pm

            I did not read your comment as you making a case for anything, just a simple answer to my question.
            But If we are to stop deporting people because of a danger to their lives in their home countries i would suggest taht the case of the guy linked in my reply surely applies – and that guy is married to a kiwi.

            And lets assume this guy is helping the police, then why not state that? At some stage he will get a new name/passport etc and voila. Gone from the public view.
            But honestly if he pissed of certain people then he is not save in NZ either.
            Its just a short flight in and out and voila.

            So essentially it would be nice for the government to come clean as to why this guy can’t be deported to the Czech republic, while we have easily deported people back to countries where we knew they would not be save or not as save as here in NZ including their children.

            The Czech republic is not a dangerous country by any means. I have been there several times, many Kiwis on an OE make a point to traveling there especially if they are into Beer and Architecture. Both to be easily found there, also because it is fairly cheap.

            No this ‘his life is in danger’ only makes sense if he pissed someone of – Italian mafia, eastern European mafia etc, and then he is not save here either, and his mother on TV would also not be save in the Czech Republic.

          • Chris T 19.1.1.1.2
            14 November 2018 at 1:10 pm

            As Sabine has said, he doesn’t have to go home.

            He has an EU passport, and can go to any EU country he wants.

            I would add something else about this supposed life threatening danger back home.

            There were to other witnesses in the case other than him over there and they are happy as Larry living there under there normal names, so it can’t be that bad

        • McFlock 19.1.1.2
          14 November 2018 at 12:54 pm

          With Ardern’s “read between the lines” comment, I suspect he did a deal with someone here more than there. Somehow made NZpolice happy enough to fix it for him to stay here.

          • Antoine 19.1.1.2.1
            14 November 2018 at 1:06 pm

            That was my suspicion, and if it turned out to be the case then I would look more favorably on Lees-Galloway, but still no one comes forward with evidence.

            A.

            • te reo putake 19.1.1.2.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 3:02 pm

              Hi, Antoine. I speculated on this the other day. I think Woodhouse knows exactly what the deal is (and was probably in on it as Police Minister/Immigration Minister at the time). He also knows the current Minister can’t say what the deal is, so that gives the Nats a free hand to poke the borax.

              In other words, cynical manipulation of the system, done for political gain.

              • Pete …
                14 November 2018 at 5:35 pm

                That sort of has the implication that Woodhouse is a scumbag.

                Oh, okay, fair enough.

              • Gabby …
                14 November 2018 at 6:29 pm

                That would surely have been mentioned though. No reason why Woodlouse should get away with that kind of crap.

          • Sabine 19.1.1.2.2
            14 November 2018 at 1:11 pm

            then they should state that he is an important asset to our ‘fight against drugs’ and done.

            • McFlock 19.1.1.2.2.1
              14 November 2018 at 1:41 pm

              lol I don’t think the nats will ever be “done”.

              But either way, sometimes knowing the nature of cooperation is as useful to the bad guys as knowing exactly what was said.

              • Sabine …
                14 November 2018 at 2:34 pm

                it would should slow down the conspiracy theories.
                I mean heck, this simply undermines the government stance on any other future deportation for people whose breaches were similar, i.e. drug smuggling, fake names, fraud etc.

                so yeah, if he is an asset to police, state it as such and be done with it.

                I mean, if we did not have these completely fucked up ‘the war on drugs’ policies in the first place we would not be in this predicament, right? i am all for chancing our laws to more resemble those of Portugal, but i don’t see anyone in NZ politics currently to having the guts and intestinal fortitude do propose such laws so the very least we can do is to at least apply the laws to all and not just to some.

                I mean we have no issues sacrificing many of our young ones and older ones on the altar of ‘just say no to drugs’, we lock them up, we give them a permanent record and their safety in prison be damned.

                • McFlock …
                  14 November 2018 at 2:46 pm

                  I reckon the nats would then be demanding to know exactly what he said, to quibble over whether that was deserving of residency (spoilers: they’d say it was the wrong decision, whatever he gave up).

                  Maybe it was drugs.
                  Maybe it was local or international criminal networks.
                  Maybe it was a favour for czech corruption investigators running a confidential investigation into the cops who handled the case.
                  Maybe it was regarding money laundering, or how he paid for homes with cash.
                  Maybe it was how NZ was being used as a safe staging point for international trafficking of whatever (drugs, guns, people) and there are ongoing investigations.

                  Point is, if it gets narrowed down to an area, people have a specific and strong incentive to go after him, and also to change their operation so that what he knows is no longer relevant.

        • the other pat 19.1.1.3
          15 November 2018 at 4:16 pm

          correct send him back

    • Jack Ramaka 19.2
      14 November 2018 at 12:40 pm

      He didn’t have any fear working with the Hells Angels and using stand over tactics.

      Listen the guy is a World Kick Boxing Champ and is covered in tough guy stickers.

      Get rid of him and if he gets taken out in Europe not our problem.

      ILG needs a grow a set of nuts and man up ?

    • adam 19.3
      14 November 2018 at 3:38 pm

      “”can someone explain to me whom the guy is afraid of in the Czech Republic.””

      Good question Sabine, generated a interesting discussion amongst a few of us, our best guess is…

      The gangsters who operate the porn industry in the Czech Republic, are powerful, and quite nasty. They even scear the Russian gangs, which is an achievement in and of itself – as they are a bunch of scary individuals.

      If he crossed them, they will have little to no qualms in ending his life.

      As he worked with gangs here, it does seem to fit.

  20. Observer Tokoroa 20
    14 November 2018 at 12:00 pm

    The Good thing about Karel Sroubek is that he is not one of Standard’s Trolls.

    In fact, we do not have to put up with Sroubek day after day mouthing away with utter nonsense. The Trolls are non stop bedlam. Twisted to the core.

    Not that I am against the stupidity of National trolls, for they do at least present the complete madness and cruelty of the wealthy within New Zealand.

    Unlike Merciless Paula Bennett, Karel Sroubek has not revealed the intimate privacy of some single woman to all the citizens of New Zealand. Paula should have been jailed for those breaches. She knows that. She hides that.

    Neither does Karel Sroubek sell off Millions of $Dollars of our Assetts to his friends – as did Sir Rotten John Key and Sir stench Billy English. Fattening their incomes, and impoverishing the middle class and the poor of New Zealand.

    Yes Karel at some stage handled addictive drugs. Was imprisioned for that. Sir John Key was addicted to playing with hair and Pigtails of young girls. Was never imprisoned for that addiction.

    The same John Key in conjunction with Herald destroyed the reputation of decent Labour men and women. Key built a bank of slime bastards around him and crushed decent people whom he hated.

    Think of the member for New Lyn who Key and the Herald slaughtered. He was Shoulders and Brain way ahead of any one in the Beehive.

    Karel Sroubek never sank anywhere near that low. Only National are into that slime – then as now. Cowards. National stands for Evil.

    • Antoine 20.1
      14 November 2018 at 12:05 pm

      (nods approvingly and clinks glasses)

      A.

    • Chris T 20.2
      14 November 2018 at 12:15 pm

      Good to see you have such sympathy for the gentleman.

      I take it given he no longer has a house, you will be the first to offer your spare room for him to stay and give him a spare key?

      • Jum 20.2.1
        14 November 2018 at 12:32 pm

        Nah Chris T

        You, Coleman, Guy, Woodhouse can house him.
        They had ample opportunity to judge and deliver back then if the guy was sooooooo terrible.

        And you for being just one of several people happily using this national dirty politics activity to attack Labour.

        Tell me, do you know Mark Davey?
        Given this is small population NZ and everyone knows someone who knows everyone else, it seems noone but Sroubeks ex-wife, maggie barry and possibly mark mitchell do.

        The immigration department certainly needs an overhaul, and after the experience Lees-Galloway has had, he’s just the man to do it.

        • Chris T 20.2.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 12:47 pm

          When?

          He was given residency by Labour in 2008 and the judge discharged him without conviction in the identity case

          Never heard of him until the scumbags mum went balling to the media

          Apparently she said he was a National Party member. Haven’t seen anything to show he was ever a candidate.

          • Jum 20.2.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 1:24 pm

            Chris; tell me which day in 2008, when he had sports talent to recommend him, Labour gave him residency under a fake name he was using until 2011 when it was discovered under national’s watch?

            What happened in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2016 all incidences that should have brought him to the attention of immigration – if they were doing their job properly, or had national reduced staffing by then?

            Look at the Matthew Whiteheads piece above:

            ” Funny that @MarkMitchellMP said he’d go to Czech Republic to find out what the go was with Sroubek.

            Turns out all he needed to do was go down the road to catch up with fellow National Party Member, Mark Davey.

            — Reed Fleming (@reedfleming) November 13, 2018

            Meanwhile @maggiebarrynz, another Auckland National Party MP was one of 3 people to like a post from Auckland Future celebrating Mark Davey’s successful election.”

            And it’s ‘bawling’ not balling. And she didn’t actually tear up until Lisa Owen asked her to reply, in English, about her feelings about her son and his situation.

            So once again, you, Coleman, Guy and Woodhouse can house him. I’m sure you’ll have lots in common.

            • Chris T 20.2.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 1:45 pm

              Not sure what your saying in the first bit.

              He got a visa when he first arrived in 2003. Was given residency in June/July 2008 (It was confirmed at question time (early last week I think)).

              I have never had a problem with Labour giving him it.

              He was using a false name. They ain’t mind readers and probably didn’t even go to the Minister.

              He got found out about the identity and discharged without conviction….ie He got off it…Whether this means he could actually be deported just under using a false name I don’t know, but he had no criminal record as he got off it.

              Then now Galloway at his idiotic best has given him a letter blocking his deportation.

              This is something that you can’t just take away, and go “Oop’s. Sorry I have changed my mind”

              It is basically going to turn into a mini version of Dotcom trying to get rid of the scummy prick

              • Michelle …
                14 November 2018 at 1:58 pm

                which scummy prick are you talking about chris t, john or d- com

              • Craig H …
                14 November 2018 at 5:23 pm

                Yes, a conviction which established the identity as being different to the identity that residence was granted to, would automatically result in the residence being cancelled and deportation to follow.

    • Jimmy 20.3
      14 November 2018 at 1:47 pm

      I would rather have John Key living next door to me than Karel Sroubek

    • Ed 20.4
      14 November 2018 at 8:41 pm

      Superb Observer Tokoroa.

  21. Jum 21
    14 November 2018 at 12:12 pm

    Yes Observer Tokoroa,
    It will take a long time to cleanse our political system from that slimy reach of nats.

  22. Jum 22
    14 November 2018 at 12:22 pm

    Ian Lees-Galloway has given careful thought to Sroubek’s conditions for being allowed to stay. Is this a usual thing by an immigration minister?

    He’s certainly spent time safeguarding his option to deport if those conditions are not adhered to.

  23. Siobhan 23
    14 November 2018 at 12:45 pm

    Though it is a shame we don’t do even a small fraction of this hand-wringing and sympathetic media interviewing of mothers for all the young Maori sent to prison each year to be harassed and worse by the gangs.

  24. Jum 24
    14 November 2018 at 1:01 pm

    ianmac 10.1
    14 November 2018 at 11:42 am

    Do you know how long an executive summary usually takes to read and digest Chris? I hear that with staff by your side and the summary in front of you, the normal time by previous Immigration Ministers is 65 minutes.

    McFlock 17.3
    14 November 2018 at 12:43 pm

    And yet googling “czech republic corruption” returns sooo many articles…

    Hope you don’t mind, Ianmac and McFlock – just repeating a couple of useful posts to put some context into replying to misleading statements about time spent and Czech corruption.

  25. joe90 25
    14 November 2018 at 1:44 pm

    Sroubek was intimately involved in the import and distribution of MDMA, the goody that the top end of town’s little darlings prefer.

    Little wonder National want him gone.

    • Chris T 25.1
      14 November 2018 at 1:52 pm

      You have actually looked at how much MPs get paid and realised that pretty much all MPs “little darlings” are at the “top end of town”?

      Being a Labour MP doesn’t automatically disqualify from being high income and for most of them loaded

      • joe90 25.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 2:01 pm

        I don’t think lowly elected officials are the ones who desperately want him gone.

      • Muttonbird 25.1.2
        14 November 2018 at 4:43 pm

        Are you seriously suggesting ILG gave Sroubek residency so he could supply ecstasy to the children of Labour MPs?

        • Chris T 25.1.2.1
          14 November 2018 at 6:28 pm

          I’m not suggesting anything except Labour MPs are just as loaded as National MPs

          This is hardly earth shattering insight, though you would think it was given some people on heres ignoring it when criticising National for being rich pricks

          joe90 was suggesting that National have an ulterior motive as the stuff he was bring in is used by their kids, as they have money.

          • Muttonbird 25.1.2.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 6:42 pm

            There’s been an undercurrent from RWNJs suggesting the minister was ‘instructed’ to grant residency. Jimmy obliges such in his comment below at 26. It’s a bit like the Nats’ attempted hit on Clarke Gayford a few months back.

            I imagined you were alluding to the same suggestion. Apologies if not, it’s just you all look the same to me.

            • Chris T 25.1.2.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 6:51 pm

              I don’t Galloway was instructed to do anything.

              I just think he made a major screw up and he and Ardern have dug their heels in too deep and now can’t afford to admit it, as that will look even more silly, probably to the point of having to ditch their 3rd minister in a year.

              I doubt this will end well for either of them

              • Muttonbird …
                14 November 2018 at 6:57 pm

                I think the Nats have fired all their shots on this and as Espiner said today they are barking up the wrong tree.

                The Nats would have been far better to have concentrated on the very narrow eligibility parameters of Kiwibuild because that has annoyed more people than it has made happy.

                Guess it’s too hard to buy critics of Kiwibuild though.

                • Jack Ramaka …
                  14 November 2018 at 8:16 pm

                  Their main weapon the “The NZ Herald” have appeared to go very quiet on this issue, I wonder if the issue has run it’s course now ?

                  • Muttonbird …
                    14 November 2018 at 8:20 pm

                    Perhaps. But I’m sure the Nats will pay Sroubek’s ex-wife some more money to provide further detail on their relationship so watch for that.

            • Chris T 25.1.2.1.1.2
              14 November 2018 at 6:56 pm

              Oh and I also don’t particularly blame a few Nat supporters on here for making up crap like he was made to, when you have the other side making up conspiracy theories about payments to his ex wifes boyfriend because he happens to be a nat party member.

              And of course the disgusting accusations of they just target women, because of misogyny on this page, which seems to have appeared from nowhere.

              Especially given the same people were slagging off the alleged abused women connected to Ross

              • Muttonbird …
                14 November 2018 at 6:59 pm

                Ah no. I went through this with your stablemate James yesterday. You don’t get to pretend to protect the integrity of women while at the same time supporting Donald Trump.

                • Chris T …
                  14 November 2018 at 7:02 pm

                  I don’t support there arsehole orange idiot

                  far far far far from it

                  • Muttonbird …
                    14 November 2018 at 7:05 pm

                    Sure you don’t.

                    You speak like him for a start.

                    • Chris T …
                      14 November 2018 at 7:12 pm

                      No I don’t

                      I think he is a uber populist, misogynistic, racist (bordering on white supremist), crass, semi dangerous, fricken idiot.

                      I also think the democrats are utter shit at the moment and picking Clinton was incredibly stupid as she is dodgy

                      This doesn’t alter the fact that I think he will probably get another term

                      The US media are dumb and he plays them like a game.

                      But if you chose to call me a liar all good

                      I don’t give a shit

                    • In Vino …
                      14 November 2018 at 8:27 pm

                      Chris T – at 10.2 you were accurately called out by the Writer of the Post for puling an insulting term that would be exactly typical of Trump.
                      You do speak like him, but seem to have little self-awareness. Is that due to immaturity or what?

    • Gabby 25.2
      14 November 2018 at 6:39 pm

      Do they have a new supplier?

  26. Jimmy 26
    14 November 2018 at 1:59 pm

    “Its not ideal that he smuggled drugs” that really made me laugh. And its “not ideal” false identity, stand over tactics, gang affiliation etc. etc. and who knows what else since didn’t have all the info.
    To him “its not ideal” that he got caught!
    Did ILG make the decision based on Sroubeck’s mothers comments that he’s really a nice boy?
    Reading between the lines and based on what is in the public domain, no one in their right mind would give him residency. Even if you only spent 10 minutes on the file. Which means there must be something really important in the file that out weighs all the bad shit. Or ILG was told to give him residency which is very fishy.

    • ianmac 26.1
      14 November 2018 at 2:39 pm

      “And its “not ideal” false identity, stand over tactics, gang affiliation etc. etc. and who knows what else since didn’t have all the info.”
      Funny that you don’t know much yet you able to denigrate and exaggerate regardless.
      I think he was convicted on the false identity, and the drugs charge. And the other “tidbits” are heresay.

      • Jimmy 26.1.1
        14 November 2018 at 4:21 pm

        So if there is more info. and more crimes that weren’t known by ILG when he made his decision, that just makes all the more reason to deport him. However, I think most of the public believe there was already more than enough info. to deport him.
        What have I exaggerated? So he didn’t associate with head hunters?

      • Craig H 26.1.2
        14 November 2018 at 8:36 pm

        He wasn’t convicted on the false identity charge – that charge was discharged without conviction.

        Had he been convicted of that, he would automatically have his residency cancelled and deportation would follow.

  27. Sacha 27
    14 November 2018 at 2:20 pm

    Nobody made this guy snuggle up to a street gang, nor import drugs. And if he has been a snitch for our authorities in recent years, then he would be safer deported.

  28. Darien Fenton 28
    14 November 2018 at 2:20 pm

    What’s disgusting are the pathetic attempts by National to draw comparisons to this case ; The various situations where people have been denied residency ; Gerry Brownlee (on FB would you believe (forgetting perhaps that these cases have been around more than one year) when his lot were still in government. Ordinary residency is not something usually decided by the Minister : it’s mostly the Associate Minister who does the appeal cases, and the Minister only gets involved in deportation cases. What seems clear to me now is the ex wife is leaking information to the Natz who are using it for political purpose. The rights and wrongs of the Karel Shroubeck case are under investigation. I for one am holding judgement until those facts are available. He may be a bad bastard, but he won’t be the first any government has allowed to stay.

    • Jum 28.1
      14 November 2018 at 2:37 pm

      Just repeating my earlier post, hoping you can answer it. Tks.

      Jum 22
      14 November 2018 at 12:22 pm

      Ian Lees-Galloway has given careful thought to Sroubek’s conditions for being allowed to stay. Is this a usual thing by an immigration minister?

      He’s certainly spent time safeguarding his option to deport if those conditions are not adhered to.

    • Muttonbird 28.2
      14 November 2018 at 4:49 pm

      +1. There’s a definite pattern emerging here. The National opposition appear to be paying whoever they can for damaging info on the government.

      Disgraceful politics. Hope they get burned at the ballot box.

      • marty mars 28.2.1
        14 November 2018 at 5:18 pm

        Yep true. This one stank from the get go. Must be time for another tape 😊

        • Chris T 28.2.1.1
          14 November 2018 at 6:41 pm

          Yeah we could do with a laugh watching some mentally ill dude hearing things that aren’t on it.

          • Muttonbird 28.2.1.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 6:47 pm

            Laughing at mental health. That’s classy. You are showing your true colours there.

            • Chris T 28.2.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 7:23 pm

              Not sure why it worries you

              You were one of the ones saying he didn’t have any and National had him locked up to seize his computers and phones

          • marty mars 28.2.1.1.2
            14 November 2018 at 7:16 pm

            Yeah Chris sounds like you should take a break especially if you’re getting into that stuff.

      • Chris T 28.2.2
        14 November 2018 at 6:39 pm

        Care to provide any miniscule drop of proof?

        The opposition holding the govt to account?

        Oh my god!! How dare they??!!

        • Muttonbird 28.2.2.1
          14 November 2018 at 6:52 pm

          The proof is in the opening post. The Nats are in bed with Sroubek’s estranged ex-wife (literally!) and are using that relationship for the sole purpose of damaging a government minister over what is a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things.

          Also, have you not been paying attention over the last few weeks? There is ample evidence National are still neck deep in dodgy and corrupt politicking as has been exposed by whistle-blower, Jami Lee Ross.

  29. rod 29
    14 November 2018 at 5:23 pm

    Where would the National opposition be without the services of their mates and toadies that abound in NZ’s Right wing MSM. answer, Fucked !

  30. SaveNZ 30
    14 November 2018 at 6:41 pm

    We also have the mother of Sroubek on a visitors visa. So if he gets to stay, the next thing is that she will apply to become a resident too and the Kiwis will be paying for her welfare and super and health as well as the prison stays and rehab of her son.

    We can’t even look after our own criminals some of whom sound like they are innocent – that is where NZ tax resources should be heading aka rehab of our own criminals and better standards for our people, not adding more privileged criminals from offshore into our country to bludge or be supported in prison & legal aid & justice off the taxpayers.

    • Craig H 30.1
      14 November 2018 at 7:00 pm

      Under which category?

      • SaveNZ 30.1.1
        15 November 2018 at 8:51 am

        What category is there not, you can get married, have a child who is a resident, get in under the investment category aka operate an export/import business, or just buy a house and rent it out, Get a fake job for a few years, be the victim of domestic abuse while in a relationship here, …. there are more ways to become a resident if you are prepared to enter into a whole range of situations for a few years and then apply for residency and even better if you qualify for legal aid and then you can make the taxpayers pay for all your applications and appeals. It is pathetically easy for anybody to become a resident here and about 1/2 the time of other countries. Once in, you can use the NZ passport to enter OZ or go back home, or qualify for voting, welfare and what have you here. Super only takes 10 years and free health straight away. Sounds like you can also commit crimes abroad and then be too frightened to return and get residency that way. Pathetic!

        • Craig H 30.1.1.1
          15 November 2018 at 10:04 am

          How many of those are realistic for a middle aged mother?

          • SaveNZ 30.1.1.1.1
            15 November 2018 at 10:59 am

            You only have to be with someone for a short amount of time, just 3 months and then get married… if you get any domestic abuse then you can apply for residency, or if you break up after getting married or relationship, your residency still stands.

            The son has a lean of the 2 million plus matrimonial property so plenty of cash and MDMA is one of the highest priced drugs apparently so plenty of profit there, to give to his Mother $$$ to buy residency under the investment category if marriage ain’t her thing.

            $30k buys a job, you can study here no problems too and get working visa.

            Although most of the media focuses on skills shortages to migrant here, the vast majority of migrants are getting in under other categories like marriage, etc and the skilled categories when analysed are a joke aka working in a fast food restaurant is one of the biggest skills migrating here last few years. AKA scam.

    • Brutus Iscariot 30.2
      15 November 2018 at 9:24 am

      As they say, charity begins at home.

      The logical conclusion is that to secure NZ residency, all you have to do is allude to involvement in dodgy shit back in your home country, and claim that the local mob will kneecap you (or worse) if you return. Ie the worse your criminality, the better your chances of asylum in NZ.

      There’s also the MINOR DETAIL that the Czech Republic is in the EU, so he could have returned to settle anywhere in Europe.

  31. Gabby 31
    14 November 2018 at 6:46 pm

    Maybe the fellow’s been kicked in the head one time too many and he’s not healthy enough to chuck out.

  32. SaveNZ 32
    14 November 2018 at 6:56 pm

    These guys don’t seem to get much compassion or daily media attention on their situation and they seem to deserve financial help a lot more than wasting it on prison stays for crims that want to get residency here while in prison!!

    https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/07/the-battle-of-nepata/

    or spend our taxpayers money and give a bit more compassion to our own kids in state care who then somehow end up in jail (and sounds like is innocent).

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12156071

    Where are the government’s priorities, because they seem a lot more compassionate to foreigners that have plenty of options to people who live here that are completely screwed over by a lack of resources and compassion from government!

  33. shadrach 33
    14 November 2018 at 11:46 pm

    “But you don’t deport someone to a country where they legitimately may be in danger just because they’re not an ideal candidate…”
    Karl Sroubeck comes from the Czech Republic, not North Korea. Do you have any evidence that Sroubeck would be in any danger if he returned ‘home’?

    “…because he was desperately homesick…”
    Well, according to his mother. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12159554. Do you have real evidence for that claim?

    “…it turns out the reason the Nats knew so much about this case not because the information was legitimately “in the public domain” like they stated, but because one of their members who ran for a local board is the new partner of Karel’s ex…”
    This was a poor decision. Simple. Trying to blame incompetence on ‘dirty politics’ (whatever that means) is just weak.

    • Jum 33.1
      15 November 2018 at 9:32 am

      ‘Muttonbird 28.2.2.1
      14 November 2018 at 6:52 pm

      The proof is in the opening post. The Nats are in bed with Sroubek’s estranged ex-wife (literally!) and are using that relationship for the sole purpose of damaging a government minister over what is a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things.

      Shadrach,
      Remember this:

      Attack on Auckland Mayor to get rid of him and put in a person to sell off Auckland’s assets, built up by the government, and the people for the people, not your greedy mates, Shadrach.

      ‘ mpledger 2.1
      14 November 2018 at 9:43 am

      And Jordan William’s “She’ll no doubt want to root me tomorrow I’ll have to take one for the team to get the details out of her.”
      https://thestandard.org.nz/beware-creepy-men-of-the-right-rawshark-returns-briefly/‘

      There was a lot worse uncovered; this is just the tip of national’s grubby wider iceberg. The part under the water doesn’t bear thinking about.

      So much immoral behaviour by so-called upright national-affiliated citizens. The attack on Lees-Galloway is totally and completely alt-right dirty politics.

      • Shadrach 33.1.1
        15 November 2018 at 2:03 pm

        No, it really isn’t. It is an opposition asking legitimate questions of a government minister. That’s how our democracy works. You’re mistake is pretending that National playing politics with the issue excuses a Ministers poor decision. It doesn’t.

        • Jum 33.1.1.1
          15 November 2018 at 4:00 pm

          Shadrach – yes it really is. Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn’t make you right. Maybe alt right, but not correct.

          And ‘you’re mistake’ was your mistake…

          The biggest insult to democracy is when people exploit others to damage it. As is happening here. In fact, our democracy started disappearing when neo-liberalism took over and the greedy embraced it, happily ruining other people’s lives for their own gain.

          But, good to see you’re finally waking up to the fact that national is playing politics. But one more lesson, Shadrach; national is playing dirty politics, that’s right, d i r t y politics. Now you’ve got it.

          Poor decision? No. A decision that allows some humanity but with severe consequences if rules for staying are not adhered to. Having witnessed the degrading of New Zealand because of people that seek to destroy humane values, Lees-Galloway has acted humanely; it is up to Sroubek to prove himself or out the door.

          And, given the very poor past oversight by national govt and its reduced workforce in this particular case, over several incidences, you’re hypocritical in the extreme to now attack Lees-Galloway for trying to maintain a fair aspect to this issue. This should not have reached his desk. Perhaps some nat ministers had their reasons for allowing Sroubek to stay and it had nothing to do with not noticing what he was doing during that time.

          So, Shadrach, you pick which one: bad oversight of Sroubek by nats or there is a very good reason why nats Coleman, Guy, Woodhouse and now Lees-Galloway have allowed a dispensation to Sroubek.

          Either way you’re just playing dirty politics and its getting dirtier.

          • Shadrach 33.1.1.1.1
            15 November 2018 at 6:29 pm

            Poor decision? Yes. To allow someone with Sroubecks known criminal behaviour, let alone everything else that has been published, to not only stay in our country, but to offer him residency when he didn’t even request it! ILG has not acted humanely, he has acted naively. ILG’s duty is to the citizens of NZ, not an criminal trying to avoid justice elsewhere.

            Dirty politics? No. Just politics. It seems you use of the DP term is little more than an excuse for a poor decision.

            • Jum 33.1.1.1.1.1
              15 November 2018 at 7:23 pm

              Oh dear, really, is this what you want Shadrach – Wash, Rinse, Recycle Refer to my comments before 33.1.1.1

              Either way you’re just playing dirty politics and its getting dirtier. And, Shadrach, that’s a nat agenda, not a ‘decision’ and you’re supporting that agenda. So, yes, it’s dirty politics – d i r t y = dirty.

              ‘So, Shadrach, you pick which one: bad oversight of Sroubek by nats or there is a very good reason why nats Coleman, Guy, Woodhouse and now Lees-Galloway have allowed a dispensation to Sroubek.’

              But, I think we’re making headway. You’re actually saying that every nat minister – Coleman, Guy, Woodhouse – made a poor decision about Sroubek, allowed staffing levels to drop, had no oversight of Sroubek from 2009 to 2017 and then tried to blame it on Lees-Galloway.

              You are also making a comment that suggests you personally know Sroubek or an official that knows Sroubek’s personal circumstances.

              • shadrach …
                16 November 2018 at 12:00 am

                Let’s get this straight. You seem to be either:

                a) defending ILG’s decision to grant residency to a convicted drug smuggler who entered NZ on a false passport (who also has previous arrests for aggravated robbery and blackmail, and manufacturing a class C drug), after less than an hours deliberation and without consideration of material the media were able to discover in fairly short order, or:
                b) accepting ILG made a mistake but arguing it’s ok because National are just being dirty, and they did it too.

                Which is it?

                • Jum …
                  16 November 2018 at 10:14 pm

                  LOL, Shadrach – Getting something straight? Nats can’t even lie straight in bed. They lie everywhere else though when it suits their agenda; just ask key.

                  Imagine your gall, trying to box me into your narrow analysis.

                  First, reply to my comment from 33.1.1.1.1.1 15 November 2018 at 7:23 pm
                  ‘You are also making a comment that suggests you personally know Sroubek or an official that knows Sroubek’s personal circumstances.’

    • Cinny 33.2
      15 November 2018 at 2:18 pm

      Trying to blame incompetence on ‘dirty politics’ (whatever that means) is just weak.

      Turning a blind eye does not change facts, same as saying something is ‘weak’, it still doesn’t change the facts, it merely dismisses them because the facts may not agree or align with your political leanings.

      Shadrach, I suggest you read the book Dirty Politics, then you will have a better understanding of how national operates.

      Dirty Politics…

      Hager’s book describes a lengthy history of correspondence between Slater and Justice Minister Judith Collins that eventually contributed to her resignation as a Minister.

      In response to the allegations in the book, Prime Minister John Key said that he talked to Slater on a regular basis.

      Hager claimed that using bloggers rather than journalists allowed Key to maintain a friendly public persona, while using right-wing blogs as a vehicle to attack opponents.

      Other bloggers mentioned in the book include Matthew Hooten, Cathy Odgers ( who goes by the name of Cactus Kate) and David Farrar.

      However, Hager reserves his strongest criticism for Cameron Slater, who he says received payment to write attack articles on public figures who opposed or criticised National Party policy – and Dirty Politics identifies those who paid him

    • OnceWasTim 33.3
      15 November 2018 at 2:47 pm

      > “Karl Sroubeck comes from the Czech Republic, not North Korea. Do you have any evidence that Sroubeck would be in any danger if he returned ‘home’?”

      Fuck me with a feather duster!

      So now your comparison should meet North Korea’s criteria?
      Jesus wept!

      . SMA ( Shadrach Meshach Abendnigo)

      (Don’t bother replying unless you’re circumsized)

      • veutoviper 33.3.1
        15 November 2018 at 3:20 pm

        “Shadrach Meshach Abendnigo”

        Tut. tut, tut. Should be: “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednigo”. Daniel 6. ROFL!

        And no, I am not circumcised. I don’t support female circumcision.

        • OnceWasTim 33.3.1.1
          15 November 2018 at 3:53 pm

          Yea I realised the ‘n’ after I hit enter, and basically couldn’t be fucked going for another edit. Phat fingers, alzheimers and all beginning to kick in.
          (I’m STILL ‘exceptional’ though, and in absolute awe of @ Shad’s wisdom)

          • McFlock 33.3.1.1.1
            15 November 2018 at 4:02 pm

            lol I’d never bothered looking into this one’s name.

            Troll thinks he can walk through fire unharmed, huh? Just another inadequate with delusions of grandeur…

          • veutoviper 33.3.1.1.2
            15 November 2018 at 4:28 pm

            Definitely exceptional, OWT! Don’t go away!

            Cannot suggest anything for the phat phingers, but highly recommend Vitamin B12 for memory, mental acuity etc. Could give a whole long lecture on that subject but won’t today. No, not a health nut, just someone who now has to inject B12 regularly due to a (genetic) autoimmune condition which should have been diagnosed decades ago and the biggest improvement has been to memory, mental abilities etc far more so than in the physical problems. But enough …

          • Anne 33.3.1.1.3
            15 November 2018 at 6:42 pm

            (I’m STILL ‘exceptional’ though, and in absolute awe of @ Shad’s wisdom)

            Lols. I like that OWT.

            Gawd almighty, “Some mothers do have em.”…

      • Shadrach 33.3.2
        15 November 2018 at 6:25 pm

        So you don’t have any evidence?

  34. Jum 34
    15 November 2018 at 9:37 am

    To the moderator. I hope it’s okay for me to quote above commenters. It is respect and agreement in using their words. In fact, there are many such excellent quotes that should be repeated because Shadrach and co haven’t learned yet. Bit slow or just ignoring the facts?

  35. Tricledrown 35
    15 November 2018 at 9:28 pm

    Latest news National Party member in a relationship with Sroubeks ex feeding inside info to Simon Bridges Dirty Politics.

    • Jum 35.1
      15 November 2018 at 10:19 pm

      Yes, and I saw Simon Bridges giving the worst rendition of someone perplexed and caring and concerned about what might be the issue with the Carel Sroubek case, that I have ever seen. (Well except for key,) It was so fake, someone tell him not to look at acting as a follow-up career.

  36. Jum 36
    17 November 2018 at 5:03 pm

    Jum …
    17 November 2018 at 7:42 am

    Nonsense Shadrach; you’re just using stupid dirty politics tactics to not reply to my earlier comment.
    The more you try to distract and divert, I will become more suspicious about your holier than thou motives.

    Once again,
    First, reply to my comment from 33.1.1.1.1.1 15 November 2018 at 7:23 pm
    ‘You are also making a comment that suggests you personally know Sroubek or an official that knows Sroubek’s personal circumstances.’
    Shadrach …
    17 November 2018 at 4:43 pm

    No, and no.

    Now https://thestandard.org.nz/the-dirty-politics-of-beating-up-on-karel-sroubek/#comment-1550665. Answer please.

    Not good enough; how do you know this, Shadrach?

  37. Anne 37
    17 November 2018 at 5:38 pm

    And here is the truth:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12161233

    Excerpt:

    Within prison I also got to read many prisoners’ sentencing notes as I helped them prepare for their parole hearings. It was in this capacity that I got to read Karel’s file that included the 2011 ruling from Judge Roy Wade who discharged him without conviction. At the time, this Judge was clearly satisfied about concerns for Karel’s safety if he were to be deported.

    There’s highly emotionally charged language about him being a “gangster”.

    There’s no doubt he has done some highly unsavoury things that no one can begin to defend but the person I saw was anything but a gangster (I know gangsters – I saw plenty in prison and Karel wasn’t one). There’s also an irony in this as the reason he had to escape the Czech Republic in 2003 was because he testified against a gangster and his life was threatened.

  38. Jum 38
    17 November 2018 at 6:13 pm

    Thank you Anne.

    As for Shadrach; there’s nothing more feckin disgusting than individuals seeking to ruin politician’s lives for greed and self-interest.

    Greed has such a lot to answer for in this country and whenever it rears it’s ugly head and trolls start to try to destroy perfectly good politicians trying to do the best they can for all – and I say ALL – New Zealanders, I understand fully how much is at stake. The vehemence with which these vicious individuals operate is beyond my comprehension as a thinking human being. They are trying to, literally, overturn a decent and livable future for all New Zealanders, And the vicious attempts to try to reverse decent living standards for all people is what I cannot get my head around. What makes people so ill in thought and deed to perpetrate these attacks on simple decency?

    I also realise that monied interests are far more focused on controlling NZ’s future than could possibly be healthy for New Zealanders; I hope all politicians with a modicum of self-worth and realisation of their representative position in Parliament are watching their backs. There appears to be no depth to which greed, power and influence will not stoop to.

    • Anne 38.1
      17 November 2018 at 7:16 pm

      What makes people so ill in thought and deed to perpetrate these attacks on simple decency?

      Having had some very personal experience of such behaviour Jum, I have been asking myself that question for more than two decades. I put it a lot of it down to degrees of sociopathy – some of it brought on by neoliberalism in its extreme forms.

      To get back to Shadrach… I gave him (think its a him) the benefit of the doubt when he first started to comment. Now I scroll over his comments and don’t read them. Best to ignore then they might go away.

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