The Left Do Not Own Maori

Written By: advantage - Date published: 11:52 am, November 26th, 2023 - 52 comments
Categories: greens, labour, Maori Issues, maori party, Maori seats, uncategorized - Tags:

Labour, the Greens and liberal parts of the media have not adjusted to the fact that liberal and Maori are different things.

To start with, the super-liberal state-owned media frame current Maori political representation as within Labour, Greens, or Te Pati Maori. Typically, they do not mention the Maori within New Zealand First, ACT, or National.

Mihingarangi Forbes said a few days ago in a hot breath of histrionic catastrophism that “I think they’ve burnt the house down and literally repealing everything they assume to be race-based. … I think the Treaty has been robustly analysesd and defined by our most brightest legal minds in the country … if it’s up for more discussion, the place for that is with them not so much the general public.”

With just 17 years to go to our bicentenary, proposing that you don’t need to take the public with you on a constitutional document is an appalling arrogance. Labour and the Greens were told this by voters up and down the country for over a year. They didn’t listen, so they got their parliamentary asses handed to them. Moist left commentators like Forbes need to do their grieving elsewhere and then figure out how Maori within power are shifting.

Labour and the Greens do not have a right to presume Maori will support them. Maori-roll voters turned their backs on them and only supported Labour sufficiently in one Maori electorate.

The Green Party have two Maori MPs. The Greens have fewer Maori MPs than either ACT or NZFirst. Neither Labour nor Greens can claim to represent Maori better than the current government.

The left have to get over themselves.

Maori, being complex but rational beings with diverse interests, will engage with the government because that is where power and leadership and public funding is. Likely that is the situation for the next six years.

There is every reason to believe that Maori will do as good if not better under this government than they did under Labour-Greens in the previous term. It was great that the previous government gained massive volumes of funding for various institutions, and made a huge symbolic lift to the status of Maori culture with the new Matariki public holiday. It was not great that when it came to standing up for many other policies, because the government decided to make a bonfire out of them rather than stand up straight in the election. Funding and symbolism were not sufficiently material to enough Maori voters.

So why weren’t Maori voters just grateful to the left?

In its most polemical form, we can get James Baldwin to state it clearly: “I am not your nigger.” Baldwin was very difficult to pin down as a revolutionary, a radical, or a black pacifist. Beneath his rage you can still discern a reach for unity. What he hated was being treated as if his anger was inappropriate or worse an impediment to black progress, or even that it would take a particular form. Even at its friendliest, the culture still condescends. Black people operate in United States cultures in as complex a set of forms as any other. Same here.

We can see that calculus in the results that are in cabinet now, where Maori have made it through party membership and candidate selection, and voting, and ranking, and coalition negotiations, to now be in power. They are working through the system gaining power and influence and responsibility. On their own terms. On terms that the left clearly doesn’t yet understand.

With that in mind let’s turn to Maori in Cabinet. In no particular order:

Nicole McKee (Ngapuhi), Minister for Courts, Associate Minister of Justice
David Seymour (Ngapuhi), Deputy Prime Minister in 18 months

Check this context for him:

I went to a school [Raumanga Middle School] where probably most of the students were Māori – and I grew up in Northland, which has a higher proportion of Māori than most other parts of the country. So, I was at ease in a Māori world, or at least in a mixed Māori and Pākehā world.”

Check out also:

Shane Jones (Te Aupōuri and Ngāi Takoto), Minister for Oceans and Fisheries, Minister for Regional Development and Resources, Associate Minister of Finance, Associate Minister of Energy
Winston Peters (Ngāti Wai iwi, but also of Ngāti Hine and Ngāpuhi), Deputy Prime Minister from now, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Racing
Casey Costello (Ngāti Wai, Ngapuhi), Minister of Customs, Seniors, Associate Minister of Health, Immigration, and Police
Shane Reti (Ngāpuhi, Ngāti Hine, Ngāti Wai, Te Kapotaiand Ngāti Maniapoto), Minister of Health, Pacific Peoples Minister)
Tama Potaka (Minister of Conservation, Māori-Crown relations, Māori Development, Whānau Ora, Associate Minister of Housing

Out of the 20 Cabinet members, 7 are Maori. That’s well over the Maori population proportion of 17%.

Astute followers of New Zealand politics will also know that the public board positions are at least as powerful as most Ministerial positions. So one might expect the ‘downstream ticket’ effect of appointing Maori (just as Labour did) into such major boards as TVNZ, RNZ, Transpower, Pharmac, ACC, Reserve Bank, NZTA, Infrastructure New Zealand, AgResearch and other CRIs, and the many other quangos that actually exercise the real power in New Zealand. That’s one to watch through the Appointments Committee.

Let’s get back to that question of why Maori didn’t support a return to power for the left.

As commentator Jon Stokes (Raukawa, Maniapoto) noted:

It is more likely Māori voters did what most voters do leading up to the election: asked themselves whether their lives and the experience for their whanau and community had improved under the current government, or not.

Whether change would improve things or make things worse. This would be measured against the very immediate impact on everyday life, including the cost of living, rent/mortgages, crime, access to quality health and education.”

And now we need to follow the money.

Some sectors of Maori have learnt over the last century that the commercial interests they have developed must be defended from the interference of government. A typical case in point is the flat rejection by Maori fishing interests of a Kermadec marine sanctuary – despite years of intensive negotiation with both National and Labour.

These commercial interests are vast and need substantial mediation with central government – as one can see with their engagement via MFAT.

The Maori economy is growing up to about $70 billion already and will likely continue to outpace the rest of the economy.

To get just a glimpse into the breadth and complexity of Maori interests in governance, in 2020 there were 1,230 Maori authorities, and three fifths of those were considered essential during the COVD lockdown. Maori authorities exported about $755 million worth of goods in 2020, about half of which went to China. And the average Maori farm is about five times the size of the average New Zealand farm.

We don’t need to go into the massive scale of development that Ngai Tahu or Waikato Tainui are into now. But it’s worth pointing out that Maori commercial interests need the state neither more nor less than the rest of New Zealand’s commercial interests. There have to be rational reasons to engage with each other, not a presumption of perpetual statist dependence.

Maori commercial interests are not the same as the interests of the left, and it is not up to Maori explain that to the left. In fact it is more likely that Maori commercial interests will find it easier to deal with the new government than the previous one.

Maori are not owned by the left. Maori interests are not the same as the interests of the left. Maori voters will continue to vote in their own interests. Maori are now significantly in power and in power on their own terms – likely for the next six years.

The left will regain power in part when they figure this out.

52 comments on “The Left Do Not Own Maori ”

Comments are now closed

Tricledrown 1

26 November 2023 at 1:12 pm

Te Party Moari have got good candidates who can communicate with the constituency. Labour will most likely never control the Maori seats again and for the same reasons Labour lost support. Candidates who are appointed by Labour's hierarchy carpet baggers and useless MPs who just.make up the numbers.The main reason why Labour lost was those 5to6 Cabinet members who let Labour down badly. Kiri Allen did the most damage'Michael Wood pure stupidity ,Nash like wise'David Clark a complete dipstick going out not once but twice under lockdown in a Labour signed van ,then getting the grocery lobbiest's to write and promote the enquiry into the grocery lobby and letting them continue to own shares in the Warehouse there only real competition ! Clare Curran doing policy in a Cafe instead of committee's. Labour need better candidates who can be team player's.

If Labour had none of these scandals they would have scraped home.

But being late with bringing in Medical staff while other countries did not sit on there hands.Then Australia brought in seasonal workers kept them isolated to harvest valuable crops to keep supplies up prices down while our crops were left to rot compounded by cyclones caused a bigger spike on inflation.Not clearing the conspiracy theorists out of parliament grounds was another big mistake.More money should have been made available to Auckland and Aucklanders for the second lockdown.Instead of giving $50 billion to the grotescly profitable big 4 overseas owned banks who pay no Tax in NZ, That caused massive unecessary house price inflation increasing homelessness. Then Kiwibuild by another imcompetant Cabinet minister.Labour were the architects of their own downfall.Yet the left block only failed by a few seats.Closer than most predictions and not to bad considering the right block spent 5to 6 times more Money than the left block.
- Louis 1.1
  
  26 November 2023 at 4:42 pm
  
  There have been times when Labour lost the Maori seats and won them back, so to claim "Labour will most likely never control the Maori seats again" is just wishful thinking on your part.
- Belladonna 1.2
  
  26 November 2023 at 10:25 pm
  
  Kiri Allen did the most damage'
  
  I disagree with this.
  
  Everyone that I know, on all sides of the political spectrum, was highly sympathetic to Allen. And recognized that her behaviour was the result of intolerable pressure due to personal circumstances (probably made worse by the pressure of her job). That's not to say people were excusing her, or saying that what she did was acceptable. But they were deeply sympathetic – and very much 'there, but for the grace of God'. There was no associated splash onto Labour (except, possibly, in her local electorate). The damage Labour may have taken was over the loss of a highly talented and able Minister, who had real leadership potential for the future – at a time when these appeared to be very thin on the ground.
  
  Wood and Nash, on the other hand, were perceived as arrogant and out of control. And Labour's reputation did take a significant hit. While Clark and Curran were also less-than-competant – they had pretty much been forgotten by 2023. Timing does matter when it comes to political scandals.
  - newsense 1.2.1
    
    27 November 2023 at 8:51 am
    
    When your previous image was as a go getter, who was there to get things done, first on the ground when help was needed, and perhaps a bit of a maverick, someone unable to control their public actions or image isn’t much of an election campaign. Sympathy may mean understanding, but it doesn’t equal votes for your party.
    
    Nash sharing cabinet info is arrogance. It’s clear to see he saw himself as above the rules and helping out his business mates. But confusingly that seemed to be his job in Labour?
    
    Wood’s behaviour is simply baffling and there hasn’t been an explanation for what happened that can remotely be comprehended. Daft.
    
    The National research unit was funded and brutal. I’m sure they’re sitting on much more too. The timing was rolled out by them in time for the election. Bang, bang, bang.
    
    Hard to know where Chippy stood, seeing 3 of his most likely rivals go down, but also his ministry’s reputation and key talent too. Too late to build up the profiles of others in Labour and there was little inclination to do so.
    - Anne 1.2.1.1
      
      27 November 2023 at 11:55 pm
      
      Wood’s behaviour is simply baffling and there hasn’t been an explanation for what happened that can remotely be comprehended.
      
      I agree with you newsense. From what I knew of him his behaviour was out of character. I know the Opposition used the apparent lack of judgement to discredit him, but he was a competent minister with a big political future ahead of him.
      
      Despite the fact he was reminded several times he simply never got round to sorting is trust accounts. I wonder if there was personal problems back at home in Auckland that was taking up his time. We may never know,
georgecom 2

26 November 2023 at 1:21 pm

it's worth pointing out that race politics can be different from labour/capital politics. the 2 can intersect regularly, especially given that the expansion of the British and other empires was entwined with the development of capitalism. But empire building had other strands and motivations as well. So I agree that Maori politics is not a straight carry over to left/socialist politics, neither are identity politics. That is why first and foremost I see things through a left/socialist perspective. The current position of the Maori Party lines up (imo) heavily along a left/socialist however previous iterations such as under Turia/Sharples not so heavily.
SPC 3

26 November 2023 at 1:46 pm

There is a bit of a discombobulation here – Maori are not just a collective (as per corporate iwi), but also a people with some negative social statistics as a whole.

The elected government is offering less, not more assistance, to Maori as a people and also less to all those in the negative social statistics category.

The Maori electorate voting in 2023 was self protective – having voted in Labour MP's to be part of the government, they have voted for their own independent position under a National led one. It was not that way on the party list.
Blazer 4

26 November 2023 at 1:50 pm

The irony is, that imo Labour were seen to be pandering to Maori…i.e -3 Waters,Co-governance and were punished by mainstream voters irrespective.

That Maori deserted Labour in droves to vote for TMP is a backlash against the National lite campaign Hipkins ran.

With senior,experienced Maori Labour ministers defeated,I cannot see voters coming back again.

Labour have a huge job on their hands, as not only have they lost the Maori vote,but also the socialist vote has abdicated to….'greener' pastures.
- georgecom 4.1
  
  26 November 2023 at 2:44 pm
  
  if Labour find themselves in a similar position that National does, needing support partners who are not just simple to fob off, I am not upset about that. Had Labour been able to form a govt this time round I would have been very happy with them being 'forced' into a CGT by their coalition partners and would have been happy to have them 'forced' to make plans to accelerate addressing climate change. The stage addressing CC got to in 2023 lays the foundation for more action
Anne 5

26 November 2023 at 3:13 pm

Mihingarangi Forbes said a few days ago in a hot breath of histrionic catastrophism that “I think they’ve burnt the house down and literally repealing everything they assume to be race-based. …

.
She spoke in a moderate and reasonable manner as she always does. However what she had to say IS catastrophic for Maori and Pacific Islanders . The key word is "assume". That is exactly what the right-wing are doing…. making false assumptions out of legislation that is (soon to be was) aimed at helping improve the current poor outcomes for most Maori and Pacific Islanders. And they are doing it out of ideological and racist-based spite.

What is sickening is listening to Seymour claiming how much he wants to help Maoris while he prepares to do the exact opposite by repealing legislation that would have helped drag many of them out of poverty and discrimination.

I used to refer to PM, John Key as "a snake in the grass". He was an angel compared to this bastard.
- SPC 5.1
  
  26 November 2023 at 4:07 pm
  
  Seymour's style to gangstalk Maori on behalf of the majority and then gaslight resistance (the idea that being equal under the law is better than being provided for – dismissed as dependency). This is in keeping with the double-speak of libertarian freedom for the haves with an authoritarian order to manage any underclass.
  - Anne 5.1.1
    
    26 November 2023 at 5:12 pm
    
    Exactly.
AB 6

26 November 2023 at 3:43 pm

Individual Maori are naturally more than accepting of market economics if they can be on the winning side of it. That's essentially why some Maori don't vote left. Both the political left and the right have always known that. There's nothing new in this fact.

What I think Forbes was talking about, and what is under assault from this new Government, is not individual Maori as such, but the notion of Maoriness, i.e. the idea that there is a different, culturally-based perception of the world that comes from being Maori, that the prior indigeneity of Maori confers rights in this area under the Treaty, and that the NZ state needs to recognise that difference and to some extent accommodate it in how it goes about its business. There are some areas, such as the management of natural resources, where the Maori worldview seems to be mostly congenial to the environmental left, but I suspect there are other areas where it isn't.

I would call what the new government is doing "cultural cleansing" – the polite cousin of ethnic cleansing. It's the erasure of a distinct Maori worldview and rights in natural resources as things worthy of consideration by governments. And the attempted erasure is happening out of a concern that it is a potential limitation on the free operation of capital.
- SPC 6.1
  
  26 November 2023 at 4:31 pm
  
  There is a global concept of capitalism where it is the nation state itself that is a constraint on its supremacy as prime mover of activity. The concept of an indigenous people with rights (and here Tiriti prior to UNDRIP) is an added layer to that.
  
  Thus nations with international corporations tend to seek trade agreements with rights to investors.
  
  Thus a government seeking to solve lack of infrastructure with international investment would first remove whatever seemed to be an impediment.
  
  Thus overturn the WT decision as per water rights after the sale of power assets. And having kicked co-governance to touch seek to pave the way for urban councils to partner international water supply corporations. The money raised used by councils for their other water responsibilities.
  - AB 6.1.1
    
    26 November 2023 at 5:24 pm
    
    Yes – that looks like the wider context I hadn't considered. Though I think some of what we see now is smaller-scale domestic capital working in its interests. It's a bit like concentric circles with increasing scale.
Steve Otto 7

26 November 2023 at 3:50 pm

The left do not own Maori, Maori own the left.
Anker 8

26 November 2023 at 4:18 pm

100% Ad. One of the best posts on the Standard.

Maori are not a feeking hive mind.

Mihi Forbes and Dita de Boni, came across as pathetic partisons (especially the later ) on the nation.

I think I read Maori make up 29% of the Cabinet.
SPC 9

26 November 2023 at 4:47 pm

Let’s get back to that question of why Maori didn’t support a return to power for the left.

And what more, than maximising the number of TPM MP's, could Maori on the Maori electorates do to help?

And why was it that the result was realised by being more to the left (wealth tax) than Labour?
Kat 10

26 November 2023 at 5:16 pm

This post shows that many commentators have widely differing views on Maori and politics. Attempting to define the Maoriness of various individuals solely to justify some mathematical percentage for representation in power comes across as typical pandering to the mores of colonialism.

David Seymour looks, talks and behaves about as much a Maori as Thomas Robb…..
- pat 10.1
  
  26 November 2023 at 6:01 pm
  
  "..behaves about as much a Maori"
  
  ??????
  - Kat 10.1.1
    
    26 November 2023 at 7:48 pm
    
    "??????????"
    
    In Maori terms, behave in a way that is culturally proper or appropriate…….
    - pat 10.1.1.1
      
      26 November 2023 at 8:32 pm
      
      https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
      - Kat 10.1.1.1.1
        
        26 November 2023 at 9:55 pm
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikanga_M%C4%81ori
        
        As I said David Seymour looks, talks and behaves about as much a Maori as Thomas Robb…..
        
        pat 10.1.1.1.1.1
        
        26 November 2023 at 10:24 pm
        
        And what cultural norm has David Seymour breached that leads you to compare him to Thomas Robb?
        
        Kat …
        
        26 November 2023 at 10:35 pm
        
        He hasn't breached any….as I said David Seymour looks, talks and behaves about as much a Maori as Thomas Robb…..
        
        Belladonna …
        
        26 November 2023 at 10:37 pm
        
        This seems to be an inherently racist statement. The assertion that there is any such thing as "Maori" behaviour.
        Do people have to don 'blackface' to meet your standards of Maori-ness?
        
        Kat …
        
        26 November 2023 at 10:45 pm
        
        Hello Prima……see you are questioning your own senses, mind, observation, judgment……once again…..
        
        Belladonna …
        
        26 November 2023 at 11:01 pm
        
        Gotcha. Everyone who disagrees with you is just plain wrong.
        
        Have a nice life in your bubble, 'Astrophe'
        
        Anne …
        
        26 November 2023 at 11:22 pm
        
        Speak for yourself Belladonna. Everyone you choose not to agree with is always wrong and you are always right. I doubt it has ever crossed your mind you could ever be wrong.
        
        Drowsy M. Kram …
        
        27 November 2023 at 6:29 pm
        
        Anne (@11:22 pm), to be fair, everyone gets it wrong sometimes.
        I recall being almost knocked off my chair earlier this month.
        
        pat …
        
        26 November 2023 at 11:01 pm
        
        He hasnt breached any cultural norms and yet you write…..
        
        "In Maori terms, behave in a way that is culturally proper or appropriate……."
        
        And this vague conflicted reasoning leads you to equate him with the Ku Klux Klan?
        
        Kat …
        
        26 November 2023 at 11:12 pm
        
        Just a question Pat, are you and Prima a twosome….. or just a onesome…….just keeping things in 'context'……. as it were…….
        
        pat …
        
        26 November 2023 at 11:38 pm
        
        Nice side step…you should play rugby, or perhaps you do.
        
        It appears the basis of your argument is David Seymour isnt Maori because you dont like him.
        
        You can like/dislike whomever you wish, indeed many vote on that basis but its not a very influential argument to convince others of the soundness of your position.
        
        Kat …
        
        27 November 2023 at 12:04 am
        
        Pat, you should play tiddlywinks…perhaps you do.
        
        I am not out to influence or convince anyone….I just tell it as it appears…….David Seymour is as much a Maori as Thomas Robb……
        
        So flick your squidger and provide an alternative appearance…..
    - Anker 10.1.1.2
      
      26 November 2023 at 9:45 pm
      
      How does a culturally appropriate person behave? Do all Maori behave in a culturally appropriate way?
      
      My husband's Maori and when I read him your comment, he said that person doesn't understand people.
      
      I think many on the left believe all Maori should agree with the left, sort of a "right think".
      
      I still don't know what you mean by behave in culturally appropriate way. How does Marama behave that is culturally appropriate in an interview????
      
      I noticed David greeted Jack in Maori. Clearly that's not enough for you
      - Kat 10.1.1.2.1
        
        26 November 2023 at 10:17 pm
        
        Do you understand the meaning of the word 'context' in English……..nothing to do with left or right think……..I only ask given your question….. context provides us with the information we need to fully understand, evaluate or interpret the ideas in the language as written…….are you aware who Thomas Robb is……..the man from Arkansas USA……
- roblogic 10.2
  
  27 November 2023 at 12:49 am
  
  Seymour addressed the crowd at Waitangi this year in excellent Reo.
  
  Why he chooses to pander to white supremacists and gun nuts is a separate (disgusting) issue
Corokia 11

26 November 2023 at 7:17 pm

Labour won the party vote in all 6 Maori electorates, closely followed by Te Pati Maori ( who had very left wing policies)

Just saying
- Blazer 11.1
  
  26 November 2023 at 7:48 pm
  
  Yes ,tactical voting was evident.
  
  When Nania Mahuta and Pene Henare get rolled..it does speak volumes and signals the effect of a new ,more future looking,youthful inspired movement not satisfied with the direction of Labour.
  
  As a bloc the Greens and TPM can surpass Labour in coming elections imo.
roblogic 12

27 November 2023 at 12:43 am

Don't blame the Left. It seems to me that Māori were a large part of the Cooker movement. Marae were hotbeds of anti-government conspiracy bullshit. Malevolent liars and dirty politics operators found their message resonated with Māori (understandable) suspicion of authority.

Then there are selfish pricks like Winston and Shane Reti selling them the delusion of abandoning class solidarity and pulling oneself up by the bootstraps.

Along with the corporate media's full spectrum campaign of fear and paranoia against the Left. Amazing how all the ramraids have stopped, cost of living is magically solved, petrol doesn't matter now.

Māori have been sold a lemon, just like the rest of NZ, but we haven't realised it yet.
- Rolling-on-Gravel 12.1
  
  27 November 2023 at 6:53 am
  
  ”
  - Along with the corporate media's full spectrum campaign of fear and paranoia against the Left. Amazing how all the ramraids have stopped, cost of living is magically solved, petrol doesn't matter now.
  ”
  
  This is what I hate about our media. So supine to the agenda of capital that it's willing to artificially problematise a set of political parties & ideologies by bringing in a whole set of nearly nonassociated events to negatively colour these parties and ideologies with the spin that these parties & people cannot solve these problems or it is their fault.
  
  If I had my way, we would have legislation or pressure to make sure that media doesn't bia anybody to artificially hate any kind of political parties and that any malfeasance gets uncovered.
  
  It really does anger me that we are so willing to let our media conspire against our best interests through tugging on our worst tendencies such as fear and bigotry.
  
  Fuck that noise. OUR MEDIA SHOULD NOT PUT US IN AN ARTIFICIAL STATE OF FEAR AND HATE!
  
  Separate media from capital. Make journalism serve us. Independently fund the media and direct the media to report the truth with no lean or directly declare the lean but separate it from other media that does not lean and do not promote it.
- newsense 12.2
  
  27 November 2023 at 8:37 am
  
  Maori using fringe religions to give them a bit of power outside mainstream structures is also nothing new.
Tiger Mountain 13

27 November 2023 at 7:23 am

A class left objective analysis shows the majority of Māori are working class, there have long been Māori entrepreneurs, business people, and a scattering of academics etc. Māori will do what they will as do pākehā and tauiwi working class–particularly after 40 years of neo liberalism–but–there is also a parallel Māori world, little known to many bal’heads but most significant with a whole different ethos and set of behaviours.

Class relationships are an effective way to view disparate groups of people and individuals in my view. A colonised group such as Māori however might get an exemption from “identity politics” because not only are they exploited by capitalism like the vast majority of us, they also were subject to the confiscation of most of their land and economy and attempted extinguishment of their very race and culture.
newsense 14

27 November 2023 at 8:34 am

Ad the prophet hyping his own drum.

Maori who voted identifying as Maori voted for the left twice over.

Yes there are blue Maori. And rich Maori. And Maori related to some of the biggest racists we know. Queenites, Kaupapa and those that never signed or fought. Not ducking new!

It’s hard to know if this is just one of those old tired anti-identity politics posts dressed up as some advice from the second coming. IE we can’t have a minimum wage and have policies that support positive sexual and ethnic identity.

We reached a taihoa moment in the way we proceed in our biculturalism. And we have international superpowers with enormous interest in our multi-culturalism. Not much analysis there yet about the Auckland results.

Labour did a poor job of selling its legislation. Across the board. The political planning and marketing behind, not just 3 Waters, but the lot of it was weak. No point getting to resource management and award wages in the last week of office. No point overloading the slate then backing off principled legislation looking like cowards. The Greens achieved the most significant work of the two governments in my opinion.

But also Ad by the same token is now pretending a cyclical backlash that we’ve seen time and time again is something new.

It’s all in the wash. But it’s not some great new revelatory key to everything.

Identify core principles. Communicate these clearly. List legislation that furthers these. Don’t try to hide debt in 3rd structure books. If you have co-governance set out clearly what responsibilities and rights that gives. Don’t set out to BS us. In between chuck in a few electorally tasty, but still principled things such as interest off student loans. Left wing parties announcing cutbacks and prudence as their only principles are unnecessary. Left wing parties doing things competently and with consistent principles are what is required. Don’t try to do so much it’s half arsed and unfinished.

Maori on benefits will be worse off. Maori renting will be worse off. Maori in jobs in the gig economy or in lower paid industries will be worse off.

And again, you confusingly say thrice Maori didn’t vote left. Maori identifying as Maori voted left twice. Labour is the party that cut its Maori caucus by giving Maori low list rankings. It still retained a significant share of the party votes of those in the Maori seats. It still represents those voters.
- roblogic 14.1
  
  27 November 2023 at 3:05 pm
  
  IMO Te Paati Māori picked up more seats because people were tired of do-nothing Labour and "captain's call" Hipkins ruling out substantial change for low income/working class Kiwis.
  
  Labour did a poor job of selling their programme to middle NZ but there was lots to like for Māori.
  
  The right wing campaign against everything Labour and Green probably resonated with Māori to some degree also – hence the move to TPM
  - newsense 14.1.1
    
    27 November 2023 at 9:31 pm
    
    I mean we are told that the party vote is what matters under MMP right?
    
    Labour won the party vote in every Maori electorate. In one by over 50%.
    
    Are you suggesting that TPM is not a left aligned party? With policies including a wealth tax and free dental care?
    
    Ad posted this insight before, but not what should come of it.
    
    Should we keep a list of a town’s population by race and only have bicultural signage where Maori are statistically significant? And what would make Maori statistically significant?
    
    Should the Treaty only apply to those who have ancestors that were Queen Victoria’s citizens and not Dutch derived South Africans or those from other countries who didn’t sign, or indeed tribes who didn’t sign? Perhaps if you have half the blood of one you can be consistent with the Treaty half the time? Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays?
    
    As I’m sure it’s better to do from what NZ has done across the 20th C- let’s assume collective Maori rights in any given situation as nil and then waste time as an immature nation going through protests and court action to determine Maori rights in every sodding case, rather than the novel approach of including Maori upfront to avoid this.
    
    Or just admit that there is an attempt to legally change the underpinning of NZ sovereignty to conquest/terra nullius through a bare majority at the ballot box. Or as best as can be done. Like it is in Hawaii. Where some love a holiday. Exit through the gift shop.
    - roblogic 14.1.1.1
      
      2 December 2023 at 11:12 pm
      
      Not quite following your point, I was just speculating about why Labour appeared to lose votes to the other parties of the left.
      
      The Treaty was between Māori and the Crown – but the Crown represents *all* citizens regardless of ethnicity.
      
      Agree that Seymour is an idiot opening a can of worms with his referendum talk…
Simbit 15

27 November 2023 at 8:51 am

To quote another famous African American, there are house niggers and field niggers…
newsense 16

27 November 2023 at 9:01 am

Te Rauparaha and the Elizabeth was local capitalism at its finest.

Labour needs to stop trying to teach history or languages and encourage more entrepreneurs of this kind!

I’ve finally understood what Ad is talking about.
NZ Jon 17

27 November 2023 at 11:08 am

The Green Party have two Maori MPs.

The Greens have 6 Māori MPs (and 2 Pasifika MPs):
- Marama Davidson
- Teanau Tuiono
- Hūhana Lyndon
- Darleen Tana
- Kahurangi Carter
- and of course the amazing Tamatha Paul 🙌
Would hate for Ad to be accused of not being able to count correctly…

💚
- Ad 17.1
  
  27 November 2023 at 3:19 pm
  
  Hey good correction I went off their old published list on their site.
  
  Appreciated. Heat thing back at yer.
Nigel Haworth 18

27 November 2023 at 2:14 pm

It strikes me that all ethnic groups divide on class lines, that is, ethnicity is a challenging basis upon which to argue for alternatives to Capitalism. Whilst post Modernism has wasted so much time and effort in renewing a tired pluralist understanding of political power, ethnicity/nationalism has been a constant challenge to the Left for much longer. Just one instance of such complication – have a look at the knots in which the Left across France, Germany and the UK tied itself coming to terms with the First World War.