The people have spoken

Written By: - Date published: 8:21 am, October 10th, 2022 - 147 comments
Categories: auckland supercity, elections, local body elections, local government, supercity - Tags:

The people have spoken.  Auckland, Christchurch and Dunedin have new conservatives mayors.  Wellington bucked the trend and veered left.  Well done Tory Whanau.

Turnout was appalling. It was bad last time when 35.2% of Auckland voters and 39.6% of voters in my home local board area of Waitakere Ranges locally voted. This time it was even worse. The latest figures suggest that 31.1% of electors voted and in the Waitakere Ranges this figure was 34.7%.

This needs to change. There were pop up voting booths which ran out of voting forms. Casting special votes has to be made easier. For instance every library should be equipped to receive them. And the pop up voting booths were a good idea but there are far too few of them.

Clearly the left took a hit. Out west we went from three Green local board members to none. Regionally Pippa Coom losing is a big blow as is Julie Fairey’s potential loss in her bid to take over Cathy Casey’s seat. In Whau Kerrin Leoni may make it after the final votes are tallied but for Tracy Mulholland to win is remarkable, given her performance as a Councillor.

Ken Turner beating Linda Cooper for one of the Council seats out west is a surprise. I know Ken well and I enjoy his company but I think it is fair to say that his and my world views are entirely different.

The local boards give a strong indication of what happened. Waitemata is now dominated by National aligned Community and Residents. And in Puketapapa the progressive Roskill Community Voice suffered the same fate. Elsewhere the result was mostly stable although voting levels for progressives were lower.

For Waitakere Ranges we went from a four to two advantage to three all although the final votes may get Mark Allen over the line.

What were the causes?

Clearly turnout did not help.

And the last few years have been difficult and have fed into a widespread feeling of grumpiness. I have thought all along that this could be a bad election for incumbents and so it has proved.

When this grumpiness coalesced over a particular issue, such as cycleways, then clearly proponents were put under pressure.  Pippa Coom and Julie Fairley are as pro cycle as you can imagine.  Aaron Hawkin’s loss in Dunedin could also be traced to an attempt to make Dunedin’s transport systems more sustainable.  But some people became really upset at the proposal that we should make it safer for our cyclists if this means fewer resources for cars.

Resources were also an issue. This is the first election out west where it appears to me that Future West was outspent by a handy margin by our opponents.  And for there to be three heavily resourced right wing mayoral campaigns against one left wing candidate which was rich with activists but not so rich with dollars shows what progressives are up against.

Labour’s results were better at a local board level in Whau and Henderson Massey where right wing opponents either did not have the resources or were not organised.

And the style of campaigning was important where grumpiness and not vision was the best performing style. It is no coincidence that Wayne Brown’s promising to “fix” Auckland resonated so much better than Efeso Collins’ vision for the future.

The next three years will be interesting. There are some vital infrastructure improvements that will not happen unless budget is applied. And the radical response required by climate change will just not occur.

For progressives it is time to regroup and rethink. Our style of campaigning clearly needs an overhaul.

Update:  as an indication of the grit and determination shown in their campaigns Kerrin Leoni and Julie Fairey have both overtaken their conservative counterparts.  Auckland Council is looking a whole lot more interesting.

147 comments on “The people have spoken ”

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  1. infused 1
    10 October 2022 at 8:37 am

    It sucks because the candidates are shit imo.

    There is no bar of entry. Many regions had absolute idiots going for council/mayor.

    Something needs to be done to up the game a little bit. A good central website with all candidates would be a start, the platform they are running etc.

    A good example of this is Upper Hutt, Guppy got back in. Been in there since he was born. Why does he keep winning? Rest are loonies. He’s not good, he’s not bad, but he’s a stable pair of hands, that’s the problem.

  2. Descendant Of Smith 2
    10 October 2022 at 8:47 am

    Since the last election the three local post-boxes have been sawn off at ground level and removed. This means you have to make a trip to town to post your mail. I have no doubt this had an impact – I wonder how many post-boxes have been removed around the country and how many in poorer areas versus well-off areas.

    • weka 2.1
      10 October 2022 at 8:53 am

      NZPost is a disgrace. For years now. This is on central government. The eyeopener for me this year is the degree to which central government doesn't give a shit about local democracy.

    • Tiger Mountain 2.2
      10 October 2022 at 8:56 am

      Yes, there is a sinking lid on postal infrastructure alright, Courier services for online trading and shopping is where it is at now. Have under 35s ever posted an item not to do with Student Loans?

      Plus, when even the likes of Cabinet Ministers and thousands of others, do not receive their voting papers then we have a problem.

  3. PsyclingLeft.Always 3
    10 October 2022 at 8:56 am

    Nick…Smith Mayor of Nelson ? WTF ?

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/08-10-2022/former-mp-nick-smith-elected-in-nelson

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127248298/just-a-f-secretary-former-mp-nick-smith-bullied-harassed-and-swore-at-staff-according-to-a-draft-report

    But yea..ya gotta wonder ? !…

    Smith stood again in the 2005 general election and kept his seat with a greatly increased majority, his personal share of the vote increasing from 46.8% to 54.9% and his overall majority from 4,232 to 10,226.

  4. Jack 4
    10 October 2022 at 9:01 am

    There is a mood for change nationally. You didn’t have to look too far to find it. Those who campaigned for practical back to basics local governance did well. Those who campaigned on central government ideology, not so much.

    Most want reliable services, maintained infrastructure and reasonable rates from their local council and local board.

    When you have pot holes everywhere, roads reduced to one lane in your electorate for nearly 12 months with no sign of repair and public projects taking years to complete but obsess about putting a cycle lane down a quiet residential street for a few cyclists, of course you’re not going to do so well.

    • mickysavage 4.1
      10 October 2022 at 9:45 am

      Does improving road safety so that kids can cycle safely to their schools back to basics or central government ideology?

      • Jack 4.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 9:55 am

        Not sure putting a cycle lane down a quiet residential street that leads to and from no other linked infrastructure, is so badly designed and not maintained that locals actively avoid it improves safety for anyone. And that that is made the key priority while other infrastructure falls apart all around you suggests you missed the national mood shift completely

        • Descendant Of Smith 4.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 3:37 pm

          How does changing to a government who after the GFC met with NZ's top business leaders and the best they collectively could come up with was in fact a cycle-way going from the top of the country to the bottom help anything?

          FFS the whole cycleway as government policy was started by National and personally overseen by the PM himself.

          The pothole issue at the moment is partly as a result of weeks and weeks of rain. The water table under many roads is high, they are difficult to repair properly while rain is falling as you have water underneath the new seal and the heavier trucks that the National Party allowed are wreaking havoc.

          There is a section locally that took less than half an hour for a large track to turn on it and churn it up to inches above the road level.

          A gentle reminder from 2007.

          Plan to allow heavier trucks “insanity” – expert

          It’s dangerous and wasteful to allow heavier trucks on New Zealand roads, says the car buyers’ Dog & Lemon Guide.

          Commenting after the government announced that it would allow trucks of up to 53 tonnes on public roads, Dog & Lemon Guide editor Clive Matthew-Wilson said:

          “This is insane. Not only is this incredibly wasteful of energy, it’s also a serious risk to other motorists. One in five trucks were found to have brake faults in 2007, and the larger the truck, the harder it is to stop.”

          “Trucks make up only 4% of the vehicle fleet but cause 16% of all road deaths. This risk is only going to rise with larger trucks”

          “Claims that larger trucks are part of the government’s energy-saving strategy are simply a lie. The government’s own figures show that transporting goods by rail is over five times more efficient that transporting goods by truck.”

          “The government is also implying that road user charges will pay for the roads the trucks travel down. This is another lie. The trucking industry didn’t pay one cent for the cost of building these roads. The ordinary motorist paid for our roads, and one of the reasons our roads are so expensive to build is that they are being built to carry larger and larger trucks. The trucking industry pays a relatively small fee for some of the damage it does to the road surface. The taxpayer foots the rest of the bill.”

          https://dogandlemon.com/media/plan-allow-heavier-trucks-insanity-expert

  5. Tiger Mountain 5
    10 October 2022 at 9:04 am

    Micky left the <sarc> tag off his header! “Some” of the people have spoken in reality.

    Good news in my Far North District though…
    • First FNDC Māori Mayor–Moko Tepania–leading on specials at the moment. A young leader, who did not accept John Carter’s casting vote against Māori Wards. He went and community organised. An extraordinary meeting, with hundreds outside Council Chambers overturned the decision, before the legislative change.
    • An extra car park out front of the Mangonui Four Square (sort of in joke), “Browny” has pissed off to Auckland, so his aggressive sign and space by his over water apartment will not be needed.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.1
      10 October 2022 at 9:23 am

      Moko Tepania did not accept John Carter’s casting vote against Māori Wards

      As I've said on here previous….its never failed to amaze that someone like John Carter..has any credence,,,or Power up there ? !

      Good Effort by Moko !! Shows what COULD be : )

      Oh also the new Mayor Wayne B….I reckon he should/will be getting attention re…

      Brown was caught on camera saying, if elected, he would stick pictures of Simon Wilson in urinals so people could "pee" on him. showed Brown also calling Wilson a "prick".

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/476007/journalist-on-mayoral-candidate-wayne-brown-s-comments-it-s-a-horrible-thing

      • Tiger Mountain 5.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 10:44 am

        Several union friends of mine are predicting staff action including stoppages against Brown. He instrumented the sacking of scores of PSA members at FNDC HQ and service centres after slandering them at public meetings. Pure anti unionism.

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 5.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 12:42 pm

          Isnt his targets on council the upper levels of management rather the bottom levels

          'If he wins the Auckland mayoralty, Wayne Brown will instruct council chief executive Jim Stabback to cut the staff bill for officers earning more than $300,000 by 30 per cent.

          Orsman interview in Herald

          It also shows the difference between Orsman , an actual reporter and the Heralds opinion columnist who was much more slanted – as hes entitled to do in opinions as opposed to reporting

          • Tiger Mountain 5.1.1.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 1:22 pm

            Dunno Ghost, we do know in the Far North what he did though, and it was basic Council Staff that got sacked. Obviously smaller organisation in comparison to Supercity.

            • Ghostwhowalksnz 5.1.1.1.1.1
              10 October 2022 at 1:39 pm

              Maybe . That was 2008-2013 so hard to find annual reports from that time to check.

              I find that changes over the last decade are remembered as a single time

        • Incognito 5.1.1.2
          10 October 2022 at 1:58 pm

          Unions negotiate in good faith, so let’s keep it this way.

  6. Adrian 6
    10 October 2022 at 9:14 am

    No Weka, its not NZPost's fault, it is Email's fault. we have had the same Rural delivery box for 33 years and in that time we have gone down from numerous letters a day to about one letter a week on average and that's a printed bank statement only because we requested it, If people are not posting letters and if NZPost has to drive miles every day to check on empty letter boxes then "questions would be asked " probably by you and others about the waste and the climate implications of hundreds of NZPosts vans doing bugger all. After all its been aeons since I last saw a gaslamp lighter.

    • Descendant Of Smith 6.1
      10 October 2022 at 3:43 pm

      If they can deliver every second day they can check every second day. Doesn't have to be every day collection. Would ensure continuity of work for posties – collect day 1, deliver day 2.

      The ability to post back election results / where older people live should have been part of their thinking.

    • Craig H 6.2
      11 October 2022 at 11:20 am

      There's a question of the government whether NZ Post should remain a state-owned enterprise with a profit motive (albeit paying dividends to the Crown), or revert to a public service where it's not expected to operate for profit.

  7. Ad 7
    10 October 2022 at 9:26 am

    Total congratulations to those in the Waitakere Local Board who stood for the left and organised right through to the end, even when they knew the tide was against them. That takes courage and determination.

    Sure this term there's been too much change for many to handle, but the left will be back.

    • Johnr 7.1
      10 October 2022 at 12:15 pm

      Well done you westies.

      We easties ended up with Sharon Stewart for a 5th term.

      And, Maurice Williamson

      Her of Dirty Politics fame

      Him of resigning parliament in disgrace

      Might be something in that old saying "Go west young man"

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 7.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 12:49 pm

        Williamson was forced out of his non cabinet ministerial post over the lobbying of a police sergeant about a wealthy donors pending charges . Thats what lawyers are for.

        Not Parliament as he remained for another 3 years after above events

  8. Anne 8
    10 October 2022 at 9:32 am

    My heartiest congratulations to Tory Whanau. A breath of fresh air and fresh ideas for Wellington. She comes across as a very strong lady which she will need to be. Her enemies will be drawing up the battle lines to bring her down as we speak.

    I note that Wayne Brown has been helicoptering around Auckland to have a look at his "realm". Think I heard it yesterday clattering above my part of town. 😮 Does this mean we will have to refer to him as King Wayne? Oh dear….

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-auckland-mayor-wayne-brown-surveys-the-realm-in-a-helicopter-before-scrutinising-the-council-books-today/EUGOQPALXATLSLAWDG53CMFMQ4/

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 8.1
      10 October 2022 at 9:40 am

      My heartiest congratulations to Tory Whanau. A breath of fresh air and fresh ideas for Wellington.

      Absolutely. I did rate Paul Eagle…. But Tory just strikes me as Inspirational. IMO she will be a real motivator/shining example for the Change that all of NZ needs desperately.

      And re King WB? Choppering around? What a Wayne.. Kerr : ) He def the opposite of Tory for Auckland.

      • Jimmy 8.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 9:56 am

        'Jacinda should have endorsed Tory instead. Very surprised Eagle only came 4th! Does he now stay on for Labour? Efeso's endorsement didn't do him much good either. I thought it would be close not over 50k in votes less than Brown. People voting for change and saw Efeso as more of the same (Phil Goff, Len Brown).

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 1:26 pm

          Preferential voting does that . The order can change from first iteration to last.

          In Australia federal elections, about 10% of seats the 2nd vote getter on 1st preferences becomes the winner. About every 10-12 years the 3rd place will become winner once all iterations done ( which happened in recent election)

          Eagle may have 2nd or 3rd on 1st preferences and dropped down as the lower candidates gave their preferences to others

          in 2019 Foster was 2nd until 8th iteration

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Wellington_City_mayoral_election#Results

    • Incognito 8.2
      10 October 2022 at 9:58 am

      No, King is too imperialist for some here on this site; his title will be POTAC (President Of The Auckland Council).

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 8.2.1
        10 October 2022 at 1:07 pm

        Funny you should say that , but being President in council meetings is exactly the mayors job

        Dictionary says …the head of a society, council, or other organization. in its older meaning of a fairly minor job

        • Doogs 8.2.1.1
          12 October 2022 at 7:55 pm

          Uh -uh! Not president. – Chairman. That's a whole different brief, requiring a set of skills Brown does not have.

      • Shanreagh 8.2.2
        10 October 2022 at 4:24 pm

        Why did I skim read POTAC as POTATO? wink

    • Tiger Mountain 8.3
      10 October 2022 at 10:45 am

      yes

  9. Nigel Haworth 9
    10 October 2022 at 9:50 am

    A fair analysis, with perhaps one further point needed. Those of us grounded in what many see (wrongly, I suggest) as an outdated class perspective place some emphasis on the long-term drift of the Party and left politics away from that class perspective to one found in a pluralist configuration of interests and institutions.

    When this began is a debate in itself, but one can see substantial differences in perspective even between the Clark era and today. I have my own analysis of this, based on the impact of failed socialist models, 50 years of neo-liberalism and associated individualism, and the intellectual impact of post-modernism (France’s reactionary response to 1960s and 1970s turgid structuralism). The latter gives rise to an “intersectional” pluralism on steroids, effectively distancing politics from grounded class perspectives. It’s reached a particular height here on “The Standard” recently with the unsurprising suggestion that the over 60s should be denied the vote.

    A long-winded way of suggesting that Labour should reflect on its history, roots and current trajectory. I see Barbara Ehrenreich’s account of this dilemma has been rediscovered upon her recent death. It’s a good starting point.

    • Tiger Mountain 9.1
      10 October 2022 at 11:01 am

      I agree that Post Modernist philosophy–where anything can mean anything–has been a scourge when linked with neo liberal individualist psychology, and the erosion of collectivism and public civic participation.

      Millions know exactly their Flybuys points tally, but have little clue on what they should be paid, or days in lieu, on a public holiday.

      The current NZ Labour Caucus is mired in post Blairism and a near 40 year monetarist Parliamentary consensus. Reserve Bank Act, State Sector Act, privatised power generation and supply all just roll over each election.

      The key strategic task for new gen voters is retiring Roger’n’Ruth’s toxic legacy one way or another.

      Cheeky question dept…are you the N. Haworth that supported striking South Auckland Car Industry workers in the late 80s?

      • Nigel Haworth 9.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 11:16 am

        You know, I think, that to be the case. And the same person you took to task for partnership work later. Always consistently grounded in a class analysis.

        • Tiger Mountain 9.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 1:17 pm

          Fair enough. I could have posed that differently. We all evolve over our political and working lives one way or another.

          Tripartism, & later “High Performance Work”, or the PSA version of Partnership were unconvincing to me, right opportunism. Capitalism will never “behave” or deliver for the working class, apart from certain reforms and strategies when it suits.

          Exceptions do appear occasionally such as Maritime industry reps supporting the long existing union call for the return of NZ owned coastal shipping.

    • swordfish 9.2
      10 October 2022 at 11:31 pm

      .

      Absolutely spot on, Nigel … refreshing to hear this from a former Party Pres yes

  10. Sanctuary 10
    10 October 2022 at 10:17 am

    It seems to me that the dislike of change in the people who vote in local body elections – older, whiter, richer – is growing apace with their age.

    Local body elections have given us an excellent barometer of the mood of the National Party base and of the current state of the boomer war against reality. The 12% of voters who elected Brown are people whose appreciation of Maori extends only as far as cultural appropriation but not to cultural adoption. They don't like Te Reo, they don't like "Aotearoa" New Zealand, They don't like three waters because of Maoris and the hate the idea of co-governance in any form.

    They are wedded to the ideology of the capitalist dream that rewarded them and the lifestyle of the Kiwi myth they can afford – their own, detached home in a leafy suburb and the 3B's (bach, boat and BMW) they really don't like anything they perceive as wasting their money and challenging the paradigm that made them rich – so they hate PT, cycleways, climate change mitigation, and urban densification.

    The shock of the new in a world where information overload is leading to accelerating cultural change means the next election could be shaping up as an intergenerational culture war battle royale. With Cheese.

    • Anne 10.1
      10 October 2022 at 10:38 am

      … the capitalist dream that rewarded them and the lifestyle of the Kiwi myth they can afford – their own, detached home in a leafy subub and the 3B's (bach, boat and BMW) they really don't like anything they perceive as wasting their money and challenging the paradigm that made them rich – so they hate PT, cycleways, climate change mitigation, and urban densification.

      You can add: due to their successes in life (not always earned) the firm conviction that their views on everything is vastly superior to the rest of us. 🙄

    • AB 10.2
      10 October 2022 at 12:33 pm

      It seems to me that the dislike of change in the people who vote in local body elections … is growing apace with their age

      Pretty much. It's why I'm shaking my head and groaning to hear every media commentator everywhere saying that the results are a rejection of the status quo! Actually, it's a desire for the restoration of an old status quo before the days of brute realities like climate change. A yearning for the old stable days of steadily growing prosperity and certainty.

    • swordfish 10.3
      12 October 2022 at 3:58 pm

      .

      and of the current state of the boomer war against reality.

      LOL … ahhhhhhh no, the most patently obvious struggle with reality at the moment comes courtesy of the culturally-hegemonic dogmatists of Wokedom (along with their highly opportunistic fellow-travellers like your good-self). And when they try to impose their crude, distorted fantasy world on cold, hard reality … they put innocent people through hell & create whole new forms of social injustice. Inevitably, it's always people older, more vulnerable, less financially privileged than you who do all the suffering. Very much a feature, not a bug, of your dogma. It's why you're such total frauds.

      [In your case, of course, a double fraud because, withan innate instinct to where power currently lies, you’re simply paying lip-service to the new dogma out of pure self-interest]

      An inherently self-interested professional-managerial class, seemingly intent on the Year Zero destruction of all social norms, denial of scientific knowledge & common sense … aggressively deploys ostentatious moral posturing to justify core attacks on liberal democracy & the free expression of ideas … hand-in-hand with the vicious scapegoating of poorer, working class & lower middle class pakeha & asians.

  11. Anne 11
    10 October 2022 at 10:18 am

    It’s reached a particular height here on “The Standard” recently with the unsurprising suggestion that the over 60s should be denied the vote.

    Whoever said that is obviously very young indeed. I would love to be 60ish again. 🙂

    • Anker 11.1
      10 October 2022 at 10:26 am

      Yes I find it unbelievable that some are calling to take away the vote from people over a certain age. I have read it suggested, but can't actually remember where this anti democratic idea has come from.

      What is going on in this country? What is happening to one person one vote?

      Women worked bloody hard to get the f…g vote and now there is some (ageist) idea that if you are over a certain age, you know longer have the franchise (including if you are a man)? Likely because older people may be less likely to vote a certain way? For god's sake

      • Sanctuary 11.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 10:41 am

        I think we need to start considering how we adapt as societies and democracies to the reality of people living a much greater age than at any time in history and to an unprecedented situation where society is no longer pedominately one of the young.

        It is an anthropological situation unprecendeted for any species ever. What are going to be the cultural implictions of gerentocracy? What are the social impacts of having our political leadership dominated by septegenarians and octogenarians elected by a constuency of over 50s?

        We need to consider potential solutions for the downsides to this blessing of the ability to live great age that our technology has given us. Suggesting age limits on the ability to stand for public office, or even upper age limits on voting, are ideas worth discussing.

        • SapphireGem 11.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 10:04 pm

          Your suggestions about having upper age limits on voting and standing as a candidate are ageist and concerning.

          Do you really think it is OK to strip away democratic rights from older people?

          NZ has a real problem with elder abuse and neglect, which reflects the fact that our society undervalues older people and condones ageism, while every “ism” is deemed unacceptable.

          How in good conscience can you so coolly suggest that we further devalue and dehumanise older people?

          By the way I’m Generation Y. If people in my generation and younger are not motivated to vote, that is their issue and removing older people’s rights to participate in the democratic process will not address this problem.

          Frankly, your comment is sickening.

          • weka 11.1.1.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 10:32 pm

            I agree. I've seen the suggestion a handful of times in the past week and none of the people could make a rational argument for it.

            • Sanctuary 11.1.1.1.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 8:24 am

              "…agree. I've seen the suggestion a handful of times in the past week and none of the people could make a rational argument for it…"

              I don't think anyone is arguing in favour of it, but more arguing we need to consider it for discussion.

              Here is a rational discussion of the problem (if a problem is agreed to exist).

              • weka …
                11 October 2022 at 8:29 am

                I don't think anyone is arguing in favour of it, but more arguing we need to consider it for discussion.

                Can you please explain why you think we need to consider it for discussion?

                I've definitely seen people in favour if it (SM reckons level).

                • Sanctuary …
                  11 October 2022 at 8:58 am

                  OK. NZ spends a big proportion of it's government spending budget on superannuation. As a result we've got a low rate of elderly poverty. However, we've also got a scandalously high rate of child poverty. Would the money we spend on the last 10 years of people's lives be better spent on the first ten?

                  To put it crudely, is spending for bonnie babies a better use of scarce tax dollars than spending for broken down boomers?

                  This debate won't occur, because the elderly vote for their self-interest just like any other group and they'll vote to protect their privileges. Furthermore, because they vote in greater numbers, are richer, and tend to have more time on their hands they can disproportionately influence the national debate on these questions.

                  • weka …
                    11 October 2022 at 9:02 am

                    assuming you're not arguing for removing the franchise (nor removing funding), is the point that if we have this particularly conversation it makes more visible the problems of where wealth and power are accumulating and how the systems perpetuates that?

                    (we don't have a shortage of tax dollars).

              • Nigel Haworth …
                11 October 2022 at 4:00 pm

                I think a few people see this as a serious idea, and not a stalking horse. There are currents of a pernicious ageism flowing, no doubt justified by previous reverse behaviours. Another current in contemporary pluralism’s hold on politics.

              • SapphireGem …
                11 October 2022 at 9:28 pm

                Cloaking this discussion in supposed rationality doesn’t alter the fact that excluding or considering the exclusion of older people from the democratic process breaches their human rights, and is ageist, dehumanising and incredibly disrespectful and disgusting.

                People trying to exclude various other sectors of society from the democratic process, for example, excluding a certain ethnic group or socioeconomic group, would be considered reprehensible and illegal.

                So, again, why are you trying to make such an awful suggestion seem reasonable to discuss, simply because others have raised this topic?

                I am not interested in any links you include in your answers, to try to defend the indefensible.

    • Jimmy 11.2
      10 October 2022 at 11:09 am

      Yes and don't we have an ageing population which under that would mean less people would be able to vote.

  12. Stuart Munro 12
    10 October 2022 at 10:19 am

    Hmm – it's difficult to read local politics without being immersed. Couldn't vote this time around – post office withholding my mail for no obvious reason. Council's not bad here, practical folk.

  13. Anker 13
    10 October 2022 at 10:22 am

    Thank you Nigel Haworth. What a breath of fresh air your comment is.

    I am a long time Labour supporter and member and have never voted for any other party.

    To watch what Labour have done or failed to do has been profoundly disillusioning for me. So much so at the next election I will not vote for them.

    They are neck deep in identity policy and their work on increasing both the numbers and the remuneration of the PMC sickens me. I am disgusted with the contempt Little shows for the health workforce.

    This w/e I heard that NZ Health is a shambles and unlikely to achieve what the good intention part of it was (health equity). Ok this is heresay, but I judged the source to be credible. There will of course be health equity as more and more health professionals quit NZ and no one gets any sort of service.

    I would be very interested to hear your analysis Nigel. Perhaps you could do a post for the Standard?

  14. KJT 14
    10 October 2022 at 10:25 am

    No.

    "The property owners have spoken"!

  15. Barfly 15
    10 October 2022 at 10:59 am

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

    Record low turnout in Auckland.

  16. Corey Humm 16
    10 October 2022 at 11:12 am

    I've voted in every election I've been able to since I turned 18 and canvassed and would have easily enrolled thousands to vote in central govt elections

    I've only voted in one local government election and that was 2016 and it was such a complicated process with so many boxes to tick that I picked many at random. Its too complicated and there should be booths like a central govt election.

    Im at the end of year two in a pol sci degree, council elections are insanely overcomplicated, voting for mayors, councilors, ranking community board members and 2016 you had health to vote in the health board and the mayor has no executive power. It's a bit overwhelming and seems like too much work and I'm a pol nerd. God knows how the public feels.

    We need booths. Old fashioned booths. I'd frankly get rid of the community board 🤷🏼‍♂️ and just vote on your councilor and mayor and have community elections in another year.

    After a long hard day at work noone wants to read a hundred essays from randoms running for positions they don't understand and be bombarded with questions and then have to mail in the damn thing. It's way too much work for something as mundane as local government.

    35% turn out is telling us the public doesn’t like the electoral system for council. Instead of complaining the process neeeds to be simplified and reformed.

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 12:16 pm

        They used to have an election day for councils but the turnout was terrible. Which is why they changed to postal voting .

        The answer is still send out the paper voting page but allow an online vote based on the codes in the paper votes plus a security check of date of birth which Elections NZ knows but isnt on voting paper.

        people could still post the papers in or put them in designated boxes at libraries, council offices if they choose

        • Visubversa 16.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 3:20 pm

          The problem is that people don't get their voting papers as these days not many things are done by mail. Every block of flats has heaps of voting papers for people who don't live there any more. I got several lots for previous tenants of my downstairs flat – some for people who had not lived there for 6 or 7 years. People think to update their enrollment in General Election years if they have moved, but not many bother for Local Elections.

          Add the scarcity of postal options and limited opportunities for people to cast special votes and you get the sort of turnout we have just had.

          This privileges the wealthier and more settled people who are more likely to stay in the same address for may years.

          • Ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.1.1.1
            11 October 2022 at 7:56 am

            The renters around me have stayed for years too. What you say is correct but general election turnout has been falling too. I voted but my partner said 'not interested'.

    • Belladonna 16.2
      10 October 2022 at 1:47 pm

      Actually, the Community Board (at least in Auckland) is the only bit of the council elected representatives that ordinary people have a chance to talking to.

      I would literally never see 'my' Councillors between elections – but the Community Board members are at almost every local event, right down to the school fairs and weekend markets. They're also really active and responsive on social media (local community facebook pages for different suburbs).

      They're the people I can trust to at least listen to what I have to say, and to represent my concerns to the bureaucrats. Of course, they're listening to lots of others as well, but it's easy to see when there's a groundswell of support for, or opposition to, a policy or decision. Even when I don't agree with the outcome, at least I feel as though I've been heard (unlike the sham 'consultation' that Council carries out as a box ticking exercise).

      Sadly, these are the people who have least power to alter the Council decisions – especially those of AT – which are at a further remove from accountability.

      I'd like to see a lot more decision-making and funding power devolved to the community boards – rather than exercised across the board by council bureaucracy – who frequently are so contemptuous of the local boards, they can't be bothered to inform them of decisions which affect their area.

      When people can see a difference locally they're more likely to think their vote is worthwhile.

    • James Thrace 16.3
      10 October 2022 at 7:10 pm

      If you want booths, there is nothing stopping the elected councillors from choosing that option under the Local Electoral Act 2001.

      the question then becomes whether either of the two private companies contracted to the local councils have the ability, resources, and will, to make that a reality. Based on some of the stories around last minute and special votes, one has to wonder.

  17. Ad 17
    10 October 2022 at 12:04 pm

    I have a sneaking suspicion the Special votes are going to tilt things a little better than the commentariat have stated so far.

    Should hear in an hour.

    • Ghostwhowalksnz 17.1
      10 October 2022 at 12:12 pm

      Good news , the specials have tilted

      Julie Fairey in Albert-Eden-Puketāpapa Ward ( 2 seats) is now a councillor, about 500 votes ahead of the 3rd place She stood on City Vision to replace Kathy Casey

      In Whau ward ( 1 seat) Kerrin Leoni is now ahead by nearly 300 votes on the Labour ticket

      Commentariat will have to eat humble pie.

      But Goff never had a majority from the left anyway. Thats why he had the conservative from Franklin as his deputy Mayor and the National party stalwart Simpson from Eastern bays as his Finance Chair.
      There were a small group of conservatives who were outside the tent but always pissing in.

      • Ghostwhowalksnz 17.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 12:34 pm

        Not strictly 'specials' included as they are yet to come. This further result included those who voted in person on Saturday

      • Ad 17.1.2
        10 October 2022 at 12:56 pm

        Brown will impose his committee structure, but his Deputy role just became a really interesting appointment.

        That's a tight council now.

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 17.1.2.1
          10 October 2022 at 1:03 pm

          'Close to 65,000 votes were returned on Saturday morning in Auckland, bringing the turnout up to 35% in the preliminary results. That’s a lift from 31% as of Friday night, with still special votes, expected to be about 3% of all votes, to come. In 2019 the final turnout was 35.27%.'

          https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/10-10-2022/leads-swap-in-two-councillor-races-after-late-surge-in-auckland-vote-count

          So should be slightly higher turnout than 2019, so far Brown got same number of votes that Goff got in 2019. This might push him higher – but still way lower than the 237,000 Len Brown got in 2010 when turnout was nearer 50%

          • Ad 17.1.2.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 1:19 pm

            Yes that turnout is important: puts the lie to Ardern's comments this morning about turnout affecting the result, nor that the 'system' has in any way failed any more than last time.

            I expect to hear a more tempered message from her this afternoon once she actually talks to Brown.

        • Incognito 17.1.2.2
          10 October 2022 at 1:56 pm

          Brown will need all the charisma and diplomacy he can muster to ‘fix’ Auckland, but fortunately, he’s go both in spades. The people have spoken; the rest didn’t even utter a silent whisper.

  18. Adrian 18
    10 October 2022 at 12:37 pm

    Its hilarious that all of the collected I Reckoners, Fake Journalists and incompetent real ones have reported the death of the left a little prematurely, and their running line of mayoralty voters rejecting the left totally ignoring the fact that Phil Goff was not defeated but had retired and Efesio was earnestly Independent, Foster was replaced by a Green candidate and the only Labour aligned mayor in Christchurch had also retired. And after special votes have now been counted it appears Auckland may have a left wing majority council. Oh, and the panic over turnout… seems that it is almost exactly the same as the previous election in 2019.

    We need better journalists.

    • Brigitte 18.1
      10 October 2022 at 12:54 pm

      And even the Tory elected in Wellington is from the left…. smiley

    • Ad 18.2
      10 October 2022 at 1:16 pm

      Not sure about your left-right distinction, but this is the first CEO-style mayor we've had in Auckland since Robinson. He can in his 2023 budget propose wiping out the Boards in entirety. Let’s see how much he can teach the left about regaining control of the levers of power.

      Ardern is the closest to a Minister for Auckland in this government but she's perpetually distracted overseas. We have no functioning Auckland Labour caucus, so the substitute filament to Wellington will be a fairly powerful Mayor's office.

      Brown is one more big adjustment for Ardern to make if she wants to grip the ring of the third term. She can’t afford to turn Ak Council against her or clearly she will face the mighty wrath of ZB Radio.

      • Tiger Mountain 18.2.1
        10 October 2022 at 1:37 pm

        Mr Brown makes out he is a hybrid, but in essence he is a classic right opportunist.

        His Far North record is there for those that care to look. Community direct action stopped an un-needed large Marina in Mangonui Harbour, but when he became Mayor tried to “refloat” the project, which he was a player in, and was slapped down again. He still takes it out on individuals involved.

        There is quite some legislative grunt and effort required to retire the undemocratic, and unaccountable CCOs. A belligerent Mayor is not going to achieve it on a personal whim.

        • Ghostwhowalksnz 18.2.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 1:47 pm

          Do you mean this one built in 1997

          https://whangaroamarina.co.nz/

          Or this later proposal in 2016 , long after Brown was out of office

          https://infocouncil.fndc.govt.nz/Open/2016/06/THCB_27062016_MAT.pdf

          • Tiger Mountain 18.2.1.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 2:10 pm

            Good try Ghost–why you seem to run defence for “Browny” would be interesting to discern. In the link, are a couple of map graphics I did many years ago for the Mangonui Heritage Trail.

            • Whangaroa is a different place geographically from Mangonui. And it is a smaller installation, and grubby and not over used these days anyway. Not opposed by the Mangonui Harbour Protection Group.

            • The Marina in the link is the also abandoned secondary proposal after the original 160 berth was flagged away, which was to be situated closer to “Māori Pt.” on the inner Mangonui harbour.

            • Ghostwhowalksnz 18.2.1.1.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 7:59 am

              I tried to find something as I was interested in what happened too. ( something I do often for various minor things in small towns)

              But no luck really at finding something like you said for when Brown was Mayor. But course it sounds like the thing he could be interested in

              • Tiger Mountain …
                11 October 2022 at 8:31 am

                Various of those involved in Mangonui Harbour Protection Group were subject to threats from local good ol’ boys and marina supporters. We stayed strong, including enlisting local Ngāti Kahu support and there is no #1 or #2 Marina in Mangonui harbour today.

                This was the group involved in Marina proposal #1, I have previously personally met most of them.
                https://opencorporates.com/companies/nz/811852
                https://www.nzlbusiness.com/company/struck-off/Mangonui-Marina-Developments-Limited

                Mr Brown when campaigning to be Mayor and when Mayor in first term handed out colour copies of the Marina proposal #2. Who has one of those now? The Northland Age archives may assist with resolving this matter.

                • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                  11 October 2022 at 10:00 am

                  Thanks for that

                  Mangonui Marina , based on company office online search ,never had Wayne Brown as a director.

                  Mayors often support these sort developments, but from what you say they were thinking of the wrong locations

                  • Tiger Mountain …
                    11 October 2022 at 3:09 pm

                    You are approaching Sea Lion territory here Ghost. I would ask the moderator look into your approach. You got it wrong on Whangaroa Marina and did not have the balls to acknowledge your error.

                    I have established my bondafides in several ways, such as a producer for artwork for the Mangonui Heritage Trail. I never claimed Brown had any Board or directorate involvement, merely that he supported Marina proposal # 2 at public meetings. Northland Age archives will hopefully cough up what I have described. In the meantime, feel free to entertain us on why you support “Browny”.

        • Ad 18.2.1.2
          10 October 2022 at 1:55 pm

          Only Watercare still has statutory protection, and it's in process of being legislatively upended.

          Brown can kill all CCOs if he consults through LTP.

          • Tiger Mountain 18.2.1.2.1
            10 October 2022 at 2:19 pm

            It does not amount to a tin of the proverbial if there is not a significant degree of public understanding on these CCOs. Phil Goff did raise the issue publicly to his credit.

            • Ad 18.2.1.2.1.1
              10 October 2022 at 3:07 pm

              Was odd to see Cabinet pass on changing the Kiwirail structure to enable more direct political accountability.

              A smart mayor would abolish all CCOs into Departments to reaggregate Council power away from Wellington.

              • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                11 October 2022 at 8:03 am

                Good point . Wellington water is a council created CCO as it operates across multiple councils , which isnt the necessity in Auckland.

                To me its the the Boards of these Auckland entities which are remote , they use their structure to keep the Council at a distance with the vague annual statement of intent the only time they accept direction

      • AB 18.2.2
        10 October 2022 at 2:38 pm

        Let’s see how much he can teach the left about regaining control of the levers of power.

        There's that certainly. A little less civility from the left might be good sometimes – just call things out for what they really are and take action. The problem with Brown is what he might do with the levers if he can regain control of them. That's the difference between the endlessly mentioned concept of 'delivery', and the purpose of the thing actually delivered.

        • Ad 18.2.2.1
          10 October 2022 at 3:09 pm

          On track record Brown is stronger at that than Len, Goff or Collins.

          'What to do with power' is a much more fun question than 'how to get it'.

  19. Ad 19
    10 October 2022 at 1:26 pm

    Hearty congratulations to Eliot Brown for getting into the Otago Regional Council.

    Fresh face wins the youth vote | Otago Daily Times Online News (odt.co.nz)

    21 and making a stand for good.

  20. Radical Alternative 20
    10 October 2022 at 2:42 pm

    Outsourcing the election was a pretty shortsighted move for a centre-left council, not that Goff probably gives a shit, but the Efeso team's decision to take the Chloe Swarbrick approach was definitely a major bungle. As for Brown, it seems like he's scrambling to figure out what his agenda actually is, especially now with the provisional votes changing the math on the council.

    • tinderdry6 20.1
      10 October 2022 at 7:31 pm

      Brown knows exactly what his agenda is. And the math on council won't be decided until Friday.

  21. SPC 21
    10 October 2022 at 3:14 pm

    It ended up 35% in Auckland (with specials to come), so that will go higher than last time.

    The Herald gives Brown an 11-9 majority to preside over.

    Is it that credible to call Mike Lee, former Alliance candidate and now independent, part of team Brown?

    • Visubversa 21.1
      10 October 2022 at 5:02 pm

      Mile Lee was supported by C&R. He is likely to have given some sort of assurance of voting intentions on some issues in return. His desire for revenge will cost Auckland dearly.

      • Incognito 21.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 6:08 pm

        If that were truly the case, then it would be a lot easier and probably cheaper to seek a therapist although the waiting lists are rather long. Politics is the last place where people should act out their personal issues with or grievances against others, but sadly, it seems this may not always be the case. That said, channelling anger, rather than unresolved personal issues, into constructive behaviour & action for change and betterment of other people, yourself included, is as good a driver as any.

    • tinderdry6 21.2
      10 October 2022 at 5:50 pm

      "The Herald gives Brown an 11-9 majority to preside over."

      There's an old saying that may/should not be as relevant in the digital era yet it is- 'today's news is tomorrow's chip paper'.

      The final count and results will not be announced until Friday 14th October, however two wards in particular (Whau and Albert-Eden-Puketāpapa) remain very close. The Herald called them for C&R, whereas as at the latest published count they had gone Labour/City Vision respectively.

      "Is it that credible to call Mike Lee, former Alliance candidate and now independent, part of team Brown?"

      IMHO, Mike will back Brown on some key policy issues (built heritage, Auckland Transport, council spending), but they will have their differences.

      Even if both of the Whau and Albert-Eden-Puketāpapa results go 'left', this Governing Body will be far more evenly divided than the previous one.

  22. Incognito 22
    10 October 2022 at 3:40 pm

    I’d say that many people didn’t even open their voting papers; I know of a few that didn’t. Making it supposedly easier to vote won’t necessarily entice those people to vote. One of the problems, as I see it, is that those people didn’t need a reason or excuse to not vote; they did need a reason or motivation to vote at all.

    I have to say that it is not all that clear what I was voting for myself, as those candidate profiles, pseudo-biographies or mini-CVs were a far cry from some meat on the bone in terms of clear realistic policies; they were more like vague aspirational platitudes at best and gibberish at worst.

    Quite a few candidates got ‘elected’ unopposed, which sums it up for me. That said, it takes guts to put yourself forward in any election and, when elected, front up at all the public meetings, et cetera – it is not for the fainthearted, IMHO.

    • pat 22.1
      10 October 2022 at 4:18 pm

      Is there a solution?

      • Incognito 22.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 5:34 pm

        First, define the problem. Then, break it down to smaller parts without going full-reductionist – always circle back to overall big picture. Next, figure out what can be done in the short and medium term to change things – be bold, imaginative, and creative and look what happens elsewhere, as NZ is by no means unique. One word of [my personal] advice: don’t look too much to the past for those so-called answers – presentism doesn’t suit present-day problems and we don’t get all that much from analyses by historical boffins, IMHO.

        Most of all, approach it as an evolutionary process, with no clear well-defined beginning and certainly no clear pre-set end. Democracy and its associated politics and political structures/institutions is not a rigid state, like something fossilised; it is an ongoing process of change and development, just like [our] society is, from local community to nation-wide and beyond, a continuously evolving network of people, communities, economies (local, regional, national) and the many varied relationships within and between those, and with the environment, last but not least.

        I like the way TS tries to point the laser pointer to certain issues, but it the [my] Holy Grail is a more comprehensive and cohesive vision of the Human Condition for want of a better word/concept. Very few people try to make a genuine attempt at shining a bigger brighter light on our current reality but it is really beyond the capability of any single individual human being aka mere mortal to have a complete-enough grasp of it to point to a possibly better future.

        HTH

        • pat 22.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 5:51 pm

          So not in the foreseeable then

          • Incognito 22.1.1.1.1
            10 October 2022 at 6:12 pm

            Every journey begins with the first step. We’re already many steps along this journey, so why stop here and why not take the next step and keep going? The future begins here & now – that foreseeable enough for you?

            • pat 22.1.1.1.1.1
              10 October 2022 at 6:29 pm

              Not really…but more importantly I suspect it would not be of any incentive for the 70 odd percent who dont bother with local democracy

              • Incognito …
                10 October 2022 at 6:46 pm

                Ok, let’s split this into 2 groups of eligible voters: 1) those who used to vote in the past and didn’t vote this time, and 2) those who have never voted and didn’t vote either this time. Would the exact same reasons/reasoning apply to both groups and, conversely, would the same ‘solutions’ apply? (NB a 3rd group might be the ones who did vote this time but won’t vote next time in 3 years)

                Why do people engage, not engage, refuse to engage, or disengage from anything social (i.e. outside themselves or their most immediate circles)? Apathy is not limited to voting and voters; it seems to be everywhere, if you look and listen – critics are abundant though. So, might the issue be much wider than just (!) politics and, if so, what, if anything, can be done about it? Or should we simply accept it as a sign of the times, the ‘new normal’, and do nothing and let it runs its course?

                • pat …
                  10 October 2022 at 6:59 pm

                  The voting pool is dynamic…those that voted previously are not necessarily around and those that were ineligible previously are potentially now so….and its worth remembering around 30% of the population were born offshore.

                  And it may be fair to observe that turnout for local body elections has always been low though perhaps not quite so low as recently.

                  What is to be done is unclear but it would appear that the predominant 'solutions' are unlikely to have any significant impact…. most have been long identified, tested and yet engagement continues to decline.

                  • Incognito …
                    10 October 2022 at 8:08 pm

                    The voting pool is dynamic…those that voted previously are not necessarily around and those that were ineligible previously are potentially now so….and its worth remembering around 30% of the population were born offshore.

                    Not sure if I follow. Do you mean some people die or emigrate? How would this change voter turnout as a percentage of the total pool of eligible voters? Whether the pool shrinks or grows doesn’t explain anything per se although the make-up (aka demographics) could. Why are people born overseas less likely to vote in the Local than in the General Election? Is it media attention and name/brand recognition (familiarity), for example? If so, this is potentially fixable [a loaded word, perhaps]

                    And it may be fair to observe that turnout for local body elections has always been low though perhaps not quite so low as recently.

                    It seems to have quite steady (but low!) during the last 3 elections.

                    https://www.dia.govt.nz/Local-Authority-Election-Statistics-2019-Long-description-for-graphs#figure1 [actual graphs don’t load!?]
                    Note the 7-8% drop in 2013 compared to 2010.

                    https://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/civil-and-political-rights/voter-turnout.html [somewhat dated; it looks like from 2016; includes local and general election stats, some (minimal) demographics of non-voters, and a very thin international comparison]

                    … most have been long identified, tested and yet engagement continues to decline.

                    Indeed, so what does this tell us? Perhaps that a bigger more ‘structural’ re-think/overhaul is overdue, of the actual political system and institution instead of focussing on the mechanics of voting and other rather superficial facets of a much deeper issue? Does it actually matter? Should we be worried? Might it ‘self-correct’?

                    Political systems are intrinsically (and notoriously) slow to change. OTOH, this is a desirable outcome, but OTOH, it can stifle necessary (vital) change. At what point, if any, do we raise to Level 4, or Red Alert? Besides revolutions and civil wars, nobody has been there yet to give us a clue although some writers and philosophers alike have imagined various possible mostly dystopian outcomes …

                    • pat …
                      11 October 2022 at 1:54 am

                      Dynamic because people die, emigrate, have a change of circumstance….all manner of reasons. the point being that past action is no guarantee of future action. The overseas born are even less likely to have an awareness/habit/understanding of local body government simply through less historical exposure (origin dependent) some data in your link would tend ro support this, as noted by asian turnout.

                      There is a curious feature within your linked data that may be worth investigating and that is the sizeable difference in turnout by council type…district v city though neither is what could be described as high.

                      My recollection (and polling of my offspring confirms) is a complete lack of interest in local body politics until the rates demand arrived and even then there was a sense of 'pin the tail on the the donkey' with a one paragraph spiel about a candidate and little else in the way of information about 'policy'.

                      It is very easy to disengage (if you were ever engaged) from such as system ….and very difficult to remedy if we wish to make candidacy as open and unencumbered as possible.

                      And then there is falling home ownership rates.

                      Will it self correct?…I can see no reason why it would and multiple reasons why it will be abandoned/overthrown.

                      As with national level politics I an tending to believe that governance by random selection is the only possible way to maintain a democracy….and that is most unlikely so yes we should be worried because as poor as democracy is the alternatives are worse.

            • Shanreagh 22.1.1.1.1.2
              10 October 2022 at 6:42 pm

              Thank you Incognito. You clearly know your stuff. We can work this strategic magic, and it is magic once you see it working, for the 30% or the 70% and any % in between.

        • Shanreagh 22.1.1.2
          10 October 2022 at 6:07 pm

          Excellent Incognito. Very good summary of future/strategic planning in a positive way.

          Also to expand this……there does not does have to be a 'problem'. We can define what we would like as an semi end state or desired state to aim for, recognising that with the strategic planning we never get to finish.

          While we do need people who know about the past from a 'this worked well and this did not' we should not be forever looking over our shoulders.

          We need people who can ask open ended questions and ask 'what would happen if we did this?'

          As someone who had a role in strategic planning in a couple of workforces the hard thing is to get people focussed on the big picture and then to keep them there, as the tendency for some is to immediately dive into the detail and start 'fixing'. In some strategic planning sessions we had to work really hard to push people away from 'fixism'.

          Some cannot focus on big picture stuff for too long. Once we pushed back onto to the big picture/future focus and removed the 'fixism' focus the results were really good. As we did the future stuff the paths just dropped out in many cases and we noted them as we went along.

          Learning painting in later life, we were taught to draw an image over 20 times, to keep going and those latter works were usually the ones that most artists explored further.

          Also it is a people oriented process, no one person knows everything.

          • Incognito 22.1.1.2.1
            10 October 2022 at 9:32 pm

            I’m with you all the way.

            Approaching it (…) as a ‘problem’ sets up the premise that there is or rather, that there must be a ‘solution’ and a ‘solver’ (aka fix and fixer, respectively). I know I’ll ruffle some feathers saying this, but this to me seems a predominantly male tendency.

            Approaching things/life as a series of challenges or opportunities comes with quite a different mind-set from the outset. In my experience, this often leads to constructive engagement that is more open-minded resulting in more effective (and less predictable) outcomes.

            Zooming in and out to see the big-picture-small-picture is not easy and requires some practice but anybody can learn it – it isn’t too different from short-term-long-term thinking in planning and strategizing when we have to alternate [between] time scales in some kind of fluid and coherent thinking process, call it ‘realistic dreaming’, if you like. It would be good, IMO, to teach this at schools from a young age, i.e., scaling and rapid (almost instinctive) PoV switching without losing track of the overall picture and objective. I believe that some advanced [computer] games hone those sorts of dynamic thinking and problem solving much more than people (and the usual younger users/players!) realise 🙂

  23. mosa 23
    10 October 2022 at 5:52 pm

    Well Ms Adern thinks its just down to the postal system. Not the fact that many people have no confidence or inclination to vote. Sure the method of postal voting is a hinderance in the 21st century and the associated problems with NZ Post is a factor.

    But the vote is low outside of the area's of wealth and privilege and there are real dynamics at work here but nothing about how fed up a lot of people are with local government. Yes there are contentious issues around three waters and tolling roads as two examples but that just seems to energise the more right wing voting population.

    ON THE EVIDENCE to date, the turnout for this year’s local government elections will plumb new depths. Some will blame indifference, others apathy, and a courageous few will interpret the record low turnout as proof that democracy itself is failing.

    The disengagement is glaringly obvious but there is more to it than just postal issues as Chris Trotter pointed out. Ms Adern should read this analysis.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/476386/local-body-elections-pm-jacinda-ardern-on-left-s-losses

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/09/29/they-call-it-democracy-but-theyre-lying/

    • Shanreagh 23.1
      10 October 2022 at 6:17 pm

      As the late and special votes come in we will move away from the 'ideas' that our news people had

      1 In some cases we will find that local engagement has actually improved, ie more or the same number people voted as last time.

      2 there are some councils where these late votes etc have meant that the so-called swing to the right did not occur.

      We can always improve our voting processes, we should look at these every time we operate them to see what can be improved.

      We should be very wary of a facile view that this election is harbinger of the 2023 elections. It may not be? Some parts may be. There is much to reflect on for all politicians and hopefully they will all be doing this.

      In the meantime there is much to be said for involving ourselves in our own local body politics/councils and structures.

      • Shanreagh 23.1.1
        10 October 2022 at 6:45 pm

        Grandstanding about ACC finances is confirmed. Nothing hidden.

        'Earlier, Stabback said the financial briefing for the mayor would be on information already publicly available, such as in the recently released annual report, and there were no surprises.'

        • Poission 23.1.1.1
          10 October 2022 at 9:10 pm

          ACC has 11.5b debt,as well as 5 b in its CCO'S.they have been funding OPEX and CAPEX out of debt.

          The cost of debt is now heading North,as well as the future liabilities of Acc and AT.As the debt is now mostly funded from overseas,they would have lost substantive value on the 16.7% NZ $ value alone,refinancing is not only difficult it is very difficult as Pension funds (read hedge) take substantive margin calls on their depreciating bond assets.

          Europe and especially the UK is facing high option hedges on UK bonds which has meant the BOE to double down on the Gilts ,with another emergency measure today.This is to protect both European pension and insurance funds,with the risk substantive to the global insurance market.

          https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1579364486716456961?cxt=HHwWgoDQmcDog-srAAAA

  24. logie97 24
    10 October 2022 at 6:14 pm

    Wayne Brown's first action was to "Open the Books" and of course has revealed that Auckland is headed for a storm. That statement was obviously going to be made – allows Brown to make his own mistakes but blame the former administration. So, now that Goff has gone but is going to be smeared by the incumbent, shouldn't he break from tradition and call B/S if it is to whatever Brown claims.

    For future local elections, perhaps the council should be obliged to "open the books" prior to the event (as is apparently the requirement in general elections).

    On a second point, RNZ Checkpoint went out and interviewed locals in different areas of Auckland on what they hoped for from the new Mayor. I wonder at the value of these vox-pops, as the interviewees for the most part seemed to be complaining about national issues rather than what the council can influence.

  25. Shanreagh 25
    10 October 2022 at 6:32 pm

    For future local elections, perhaps the council should be obliged to "open the books" prior to the event (as is apparently the requirement in general elections).

    I had thought that Councils were required to put up these figures. I did see some thing earlier but cannot find it.

    Brown is grandstanding. He has a philosophical position, whether justified or not, that ACC should not have COC(council owned companies or entities) running council ops. Fair enough, that is his position.

    He should not try to say 'oh wow because of the existence of these companies, Auckland is going to hell in a handcart. He clearly is and has been saying this…..There will also be costs to bring these back in house. He may find that the once embarking on this kind of restructuring the people you wanted to keep and move back in house are the ones that say 'oh no I'm not keen on that guy's approach, he does not seem to know how to treat the staff' and walk out. As an old stager in terms of reorganisations/restructurings I have seen this happen time and again. Then there is to down time while this restructuring is going on as people 'fight' for their jobs.

    I did find this

    https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/elections/information-for-candidates/Documents/pre-election-report-2022.pdf

    I find this focus on this guy undeserved. He has a less than stellar reputation in local body politics. He should be head down and bottom up and focusing on the future, learning how to work with people and less time singing and ‘pissing’ around

    • Grey Area 25.1
      11 October 2022 at 9:48 am

      "He should be head down and bottom up and focusing on the future, learning how to work with people and less time singing and ‘pissing’ around."

      That doesn't appear to be his style.

      "At the start of Monday, as Brown entered the council building for the first time in his new role, he expressed confidence that the 20 ward councillors, whom he had yet to meet, would follow his line on director replacements.

      “Recently elected councillors don’t like to go against large majorities,” Brown said.

      I suspect Brown is a bully.

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/130131127/wayne-browns-day-one-call-for-a-resignation-and-a-repeat-forecast-of-gloom

      • Shanreagh 25.1.1
        11 October 2022 at 5:07 pm

        I suspect Brown is a bully.

        Good grief I suspect you may be right. Demanding resignations when you have no role in the employment of the people on these boards certainly sounds that way.

        I find him very Trumpian in his boorishness.

        Surely Auckland could have done better.

  26. mosa 26
    10 October 2022 at 6:49 pm

    " A strong signal sent but she aint listening "

    " candidates on the hustings report that they have witnessed rising anger towards the " Labour " Government amongst voters they’ve talked to. There is no doubt that the cost of living crisis, the housing crisis, the climate crisis and so on are making people dissatisfied with a government that seems to be focused on all the wrong things "

    " Collins in Auckland and Eagle in Wellington may even have suffered from Ardern’s endorsements of them. They both had much worse results than forecast "

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/10/10/political-roundup-voters-have-sent-a-very-strong-signal-but-will-central-government-listen/#comment-683

    • satty 26.1
      11 October 2022 at 9:22 am

      Not sure about the part " Eagle in Wellington may even have suffered from Ardern’s endorsements"…

      I based my voting decisions mainly on the little booklet that came with the voting papers (plus some minor internet search), not on party alignment or endorsements. Paul Eagle wasn't really standing out and didn't show any clear vision on climate change / transport etc.

      So he didn't get the #1 spot from me (and – just a guess – not from my partner either).

      Maybe he thought he can simply walk in on his name / party affiliation…

  27. Shanreagh 27
    11 October 2022 at 1:03 pm

    But then you have to laugh. With the sound on to get the full effect of Hoots hootin' Second picture.

    https://twitter.com/kiwisara/status/1579373659743215616

    • Incognito 27.1
      11 October 2022 at 2:52 pm

      Who’s the burly guy?

      1. Chauffeur
      2. Helicopter pilot
      3. Body guard
      4. Handy man
      • Shanreagh 27.1.1
        11 October 2022 at 5:02 pm

        5 Water carrier oops I mean phone carrier.

        He may have the change needed for the person in front to manoeuvre around Auckland, like the Queen had only a handkerchief in her bag and everything else was carried by her Lady in Waiting.

        Whoever it is Hoots is standin' by him, no that's not right ..Hoots is standing by the one in front.

        I must admit it is my warped sense of humour but I have played the spoof of Hooton standin' by his man several times now.

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