Online voting – no. Try polling booths

Written By: - Date published: 8:10 am, October 14th, 2019 - 42 comments
Categories: Dirty Politics, local body elections, Politics - Tags: ,

Amid calls to install online voting from the technologically illiterate who are appear to be unaware of the risks, there is clear disagreement from those who do know the risks. Politicians should listen to them.

The current debate centers around the continuing failure of postal voting. This years turnout in the local body elections looks appalling and is likely to only get worse. I seldom bother digging out the snail mail these days because everything important comes through my email or is paid directly. I really only get junk mail, mostly from politicians, through the restricted mailbox in the foyer of my apartment building – and the local body elections. 

It is the same in the other direction. When I was sending a response to a summons for jury service the other day, the envelope rode in my pocket for 2 weeks because I couldn’t find a postbox when I was biking to and from work. It looks like they have almost all been taken down since the last time I had to respond via mail.

But the solution to falling voting isn’t going to be online voting. It is going to be to revert back to the safety of paper and polling booths rather than trying and failing to set up safe and secure online voting. 

I’ve been a computer programmer for a long time. I started writing code on university networks back in 1979. I’ve been wired in one way or another ever since. I’ve written a lot of networked systems to join people in cooperative system. Most, like this one, have been pretty successful at the task they were designed to do.

I’ve also had a hobby of being involved in politics. A lot of time that has been helping to create or run canvassing and election day systems. Frequently stretching the available technology to get everything to work. Those who know me well usually say that my two main interests are programming and politics. It is a vast simplification – but a great and justifiable tagline.

Over the years my viewpoint about the possibility of online voting has waxed and waned with the technological innovations. But as each innovation has revealed its underlying flaws, the more and more that you realise the basic problem with applying them to voting.

It is damn hard to create any computerised system that doesn’t have single points of failure or failure that are lethal when you have something as important as voting.

Having humans in a decentralised system to point out the flaws and any corruption is what makes democratic voting work. It is simple, transparent, cost efficient and highly effective. Going to the local polling booth down the street on a particular weekend day at a booth fulfills all of the needs of a busy society.

It eliminates almost all of the possible failure points in a system apart from politicians finding reasons for voters to vote. With pre-voting at a booth it makes it a system that appears to be sustaining its turnout. Adding a “None of the above” no confidence vote would probably add the incentive to get more people out to vote.

As a system, it doesn’t require massive amounts of pre-election day testing because humans are pretty good at being adaptive and fixing any of the little glitches that inevitably arise. There are also no single points of failure because there are always multiple eyes on all parts of the system. Even where there are problems, they are mostly isolated to small portions of the voters. And physical voting is incredibly hard to hack or subvert directly.

Just think of the safeguards that people already inherently add to most online systems. The frequent analogy by people of the banking system that is used in support of  online voting is a classic case of false projection. They ignore the feedback loop provided by the customers in the system.

What makes online banking work is that banking customers have an vested interest and a rapid response to money disappearing from their accounts. Any corruption or flaws in the system are usually detected and subsequently blocked very fast.

What I can’t see in any online voting schemes that has a way to provide  that kind of feedback loop – at least not without making it easy for hackers or leakers to steal and use voting records.

Online voting is one of those ideas that seems good superficially – that doesn’t appear to be cost effective or be particularly worth pursuing.

Personally, my basic response to implementing any such system would be to see how many inherent flaws and exploits in any such system so that I could find and publish them widely. I’d consider that to be my public duty. Now that would be fun… 

42 comments on “Online voting – no. Try polling booths ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. mpledger 1
    14 October 2019 at 8:31 am

    The other comparison between banks and voting is that if something goes wrong at the bank then they have time (make time) to fix it up. If something goes wrong with voting it could lead to a lot of confusion for weeks or months as they try to fix an unprecedented mistake – probably ending in court. If the result depends on a few hundred votes (overhangs etc) then it's going to come down to one, two or three people to make the final decision about who won.

    Anyway, the way National respond to security flaws is to exploit them as much as possible to their own advantage so I would say no to online voting.

  2. Dukeofurl 2
    14 October 2019 at 8:44 am

    "The frequent analogy by people of the banking system that is used in support of online voting is a classic case of false projection. They ignore the feedback loop provided by the customers in the system."

    The banks themselves make procedural errors, but they can go offline and 'reverse their mistakes'.

    However banking scams from the customer end happen all the time, but I noticed the other day when I paid a new account online , there was 2 step authentication for the first time for me. Im not so silly to think 'can never happen to me' , but I never have banking app on a mobile phone as a risk reduction measure

  3. Agora 3
    14 October 2019 at 9:32 am

    Do it as they did in ancient greece so that oligarchs or dictators found it harder to influence the outcome.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/democracy-ancient-greece/

  4. Dawn Trenberth aka The Fairy Godmother 4
    14 October 2019 at 9:56 am

    When I was door knocking in the Papatoetoe subdivision for my Labour team I met many people who had either never got or misplaced their voting papers. I knocked on doors where the old residents were still on the roll and presumably their ballot papers arrived and the new people were not enrolled. The postal system is complete mess. Some people did do special votes and the night markets at Papatoetoe were packed with people enrolling and voting. Many people asked me if they could vote at the school on Saturday. Let's go back to the ballot box. The people where I live would welcome it. One other thing Auckland council contracted the running of the elections to a private company election services. I think we would all be better off if the electoral commission ran local elections.

  5. Agora 5
    14 October 2019 at 10:16 am

    Chapple closed our conversation with a rueful sigh. “If there’s corruption in our country, it is most likely to be found at the local level. Oversight is less, the media is weaker, and there are large amounts of money just sloshing around … I’d be very surprised if Wellington was rare in this. I think this is very common.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/08/13/751467/time-to-rein-in-the-cash-in-local-politics

  6. AB 6
    14 October 2019 at 10:36 am

    Idiot technocrats who view voting as just another solitary function – like paying a power bill or booking a plane ticket – always strive for convenience and efficiency. Postal voting was meant to be a step forward in convenience and efficiency – and online voting more so. They think people don't vote merely because the process is inconvenient. More likely they don't vote because their lives are sh*t and they don't think it will make a difference. Voting is an irrelevance in harried lives dominated by work and constantly serving the powerful.

    We need to do the exact opposite of what these clowns want. Instead, we should surround voting with ritual and ceremony. Make it an act of physical participation that involves going to places where other people are. Make it a day free of work – far too much work occurs anyway. Open the pubs but close the shops, have picnics in the park. "Dip him in the river who loves water".

    • Macro 6.1
      15 October 2019 at 8:08 pm

      Make it an act of physical participation that involves going to places where other people are. Make it a day free of work – far too much work occurs anyway. Open the pubs but close the shops, have picnics in the park.

      Yes!

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        15 October 2019 at 9:04 pm

        Just find the right formula and everything will go well. Like drop the speed limit so it takes another half hour to go to the next town. There have been a lot of deaths on the road lately in a short period. Males running into trees. Transport authority wouldn't think that these may be suicides.

        Thought – Lower speed limits won't help those. But trying to reach the inner self in people with a message of showing courtesy and being kind to your self and others with encouragement to be a skilled driver might do the job; show respect for drivers, not just dismiss them like difficult children.

  7. adam 7
    14 October 2019 at 1:28 pm

    How about rather than how to vote – ask the question why do people just don't want to vote.

    To many commentators are calling people lazy for not voting – I know many, many people who chose not to vote. Because at some point you have to recognise the system is broken and withdraw your support.

    People no longer count – they are a commodity, and with postal votes or online votes that commodification has been laid bare.

    • Andre 7.1
      14 October 2019 at 1:36 pm

      Go on them, adam. Tell us why you think people don't vote. And how you think the system could be changed into something the majority of the population would think is better than what we now have. Details, please.

      • adam 7.1.1
        14 October 2019 at 6:19 pm

        Already said a few dozen time why I think people are not voting.

        As for solutions – simple really – smaller councils which are more democratic. Make it so people can engage with the local body – not some abstract political beast.

        Good example of abstract political beast, is the super city – which was really just the removal of the last vestiges of local council, and turning it into what the old regional council looked like, plus being equally hard to engage with. Hard to understand and deeply anti-democratic.

        Funny how devolution turned out to be the another lie of the neo-liberal agenda.

        • Andre 7.1.1.1
          14 October 2019 at 6:38 pm

          You think people don't vote simply because the organisation they are voting to put representatives onto is so big that people feel their vote is too small too bother? Welcome to living in a big city. If you want to be chatting to the local authorities all the time, Whangamomona might be more your thing. Me, I prefer having consistency rather than varying policies and standards depending on which side of the street you're on.

          For the local touch here in the big city, there's the local boards. I've had a chat or two to the local board rep, he's followed up and got an answer from council for me on an issue that mattered to me, if I pass him on the street and say hi, he might even remember my name (or not).

          Representatives are elected on the basis of votes being as equal as possible. What's undemocratic about that? Alternatively, what do you think democratic actually means?

          • adam 7.1.1.1.1
            15 October 2019 at 12:10 am

            Nope, what I said was it's too big to be democratic for a local body.

            As for my definition of democracy – obviously somthing quite different than you. I don't mean elected dictatorship for starters.

            Start here

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

            I like what they doing in Rojava, but that would probably mean being stabbed in the back, then having some right wing loony calling you a terrorist.

            Just a side note – local boards – are a joke. As are most people who sit on them. Under funded, budget restricted vanity fair's. But that Auckland for you.

            • Andre 7.1.1.1.1.1
              15 October 2019 at 5:21 am

              So if people aren't going to find the time or effort to engage in the minimalist effort of voting for representatives every three years, why are they going to find the time and motivation to get involved in the massively greater requirement of one of these other governing arrangements?

              At the simplest level, compare turnout at US states that use caucuses vs direct vote primaries. Turnouts for direct vote primaries are low enough, for caucuses it's abysmal. Or Switzerland; apparently voter turnout is almost always below 50%.

              Some of the places I've lived have had some measure of direct democracy. Frankly, most of the results I've seen have been pretty poor. Poorly thought through, stupidly populist measures getting passed that cause real problems down the track. Such as California's Proposition 13. And my rellies from Switzerland have plenty of stories about shitty outcomes there.

              Governing for all requires actual expertise and balancing of competing interests. With representative democracy, we have a chance of getting people whose full time job becomes trying to understand the nuances and unintended effects of new measures. Particularly with MMP, there's at least a chance voices at the margins will be heard and taken into account. Especially if those those at the margins actually elect representatives to be a voice for their interests. Which can't happen if they choose wilful irrelevance by not voting.

              But all too often, "direct democracy" just devolves into simple mob rule. Or even worse, single-issue obsessives with time on their hands get to dominate the process even more than they do now.

              • adam …
                15 October 2019 at 3:28 pm

                Yeap your own neo-liberal waka.

                Have a nice day Andre. Let me know when you decided to get of the beige bus – happy to talk then.

    • McFlock 7.2
      14 October 2019 at 2:12 pm

      ask the question why do people just don't want to vote.

      Pretty low in the order of give-a-damn, really. If they don't want to vote, that's their choice, and the only people it hurts is themselves.

      We should ask how many people want to vote, but do not. We should also ask what barriers to voting exist for those people.

      I wonder how many people even post letters these days? I know businesses post to me, but I haven't mailed a letter in years. You might as well ask me to send a telegram or a fax.

      • adam 7.2.1
        14 October 2019 at 6:12 pm

        'Hurt themselves', how is not voting hurting people who make that choice? When the choice is to walk away from a system which is failing them.

        "I've never felt so clean in my life" was one comment from a mate who chose not to vote for the first time.

        Who's mad – the person who keeps repeating the same process over and over thinking it will produce a different result – or the person who stops, takes a deep breath and asks how can I fix this.

        If you think nearly 60+% of the population are lazy or can't mail a letter you're delusional in thinking this is a system which is working, democratic and just. And maybe, just maybe, you might be a part of the problem rather than wanting to fix it.

        • McFlock 7.2.1.1
          14 October 2019 at 8:48 pm

          I don't think 60% of the population "are lazy or can't mail a letter".
          I think that postal ballots are an unfamiliar and inconvenient process for many people.

          I use a pen maybe once a week. Everything is electronic.

          You need to clear the mail box, not accidentally throw it out with junkmail, put it on the kitchen bench, remember it, not spill stuff on it, find a pen, vote for three different things with three different systems and know what to do when you only like 4 people for 14 positions,find a postbox by a date that's different to the voting date, remember to have the envelope when you remember to stop by the postbox that time there's a free park right there, and mail it. And that's if you don't have reading difficulties or some other barrier to filling iin the form and getting out of the house to send it.

          Now, your alienated mates might be happy to bitch about how society is run without actually doing anything to change it, but maybe their egos are stopping them actually bringing about the change they want. Their discontent is self-inflicted.

          • adam 7.2.1.1.1
            14 October 2019 at 11:57 pm

            Sheesh projecting much – they are doing somthing about it, and not voting is part of that.

            As for the mail excuse – keep running with that if it makes ya happy. Personally think it way more complex than that.

            • McFlock 7.2.1.1.1.1
              15 October 2019 at 12:22 am

              Not voting when the only hope for change depends on elected representatives is literally doing nothing about it.

              • adam …
                15 October 2019 at 5:17 am

                And that is where we disagree.

                As I said, you are part of the problem.

                • Andre …
                  15 October 2019 at 5:37 am

                  How do you think not voting will bring about actual change?

                  • The Al1en …
                    15 October 2019 at 9:33 am

                    It won't, it's just a fantasy, and one that gives those ultra political minorities an easy cop out at election time when they realise in hard numbers how out of touch they are in their constituencies.

                • McFlock …
                  15 October 2019 at 3:40 pm

                  How does one get change in a representative democracy without elected representatives bringing about that change?

      • AB 7.2.2
        14 October 2019 at 10:45 pm

        " If they don't want to vote, that's their choice, and the only people it hurts is themselves."

        Generally I don't like the idea of people hurting themselves – wittingly or unwittingly. I think we might even have an obligation to try to prevent it happening, or at least to make the choice well-informed. What that obligation looks like in this case I have no idea, but I reckon the phenomenon is more problematic that you are suggesting.

        • McFlock 7.2.2.1
          14 October 2019 at 11:01 pm

          It's a democracy, one of the few arenas where problematic self-flagellation should be allowed. I'm just happy in the knowledge that they'd likely vote for someone other than whomever I would vote for.

          There's no reason I can see why local body elections should have two or three times as many voters alienated to the point of intentional non-participation than the national elections. So that indicates to me that the problem with local body elections is something in the way they are conducted: the mechanism of voting (postal), systemic issues relating to their administration, or maybe even just the volume of positions and candidates to be voted on.

          Dunno about a full royal commission, but I do suspect we need to throw research funds at figuring out what the problem is.

          • Andre 7.2.2.1.1
            15 October 2019 at 9:45 am

            My reckons is that the sheer volume of positions and candidates is part of it. Another part of it is that people underestimate how much local government actually does affect their lives relative to central government, so don't see the point in going to the effort of voting.

            • greywarshark 7.2.2.1.1.1
              15 October 2019 at 4:21 pm

              'I never felt so clean in my life' – from not voting? Could be because the mind is empty – no difficult murky decisions to be made, We all can't be like that, And Andre mentioned near the start, California Proposition 13:

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13
              Proposition 13 is embodied in Article XIII A of the Constitution of the State of California. … The proposition decreased property taxes by assessing values at their 1976 value and restricted annual increases of assessed value of real property to an inflation factor, not to exceed 2 percent per year.

  8. WILD KATIPO 8
    14 October 2019 at 5:57 pm

    Mhmmm… support.

    Keep it to the polling booth.

    The human element.

    Screw computerized this or that or voting.

    Too easily hijacked.

    The simplest solutions and techniques are often the best ones, not always so much in 'efficiency' per se'… but in 'less moving parts' that can go wrong.

  9. WILD KATIPO 9
    14 October 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Pre election campaigns?… polling booths…

    Heres a slice of history to learn how its done… BEFORE everyone owned a cell phone and a laptop…

    NUBS.

    NZ Political Clips

    https://youtu.be/erScQkPr5kQ?t=1

  10. WILD KATIPO 10
    14 October 2019 at 6:50 pm

    John Key , Simon Bridges…. L0L0L0L0L0L0L0L0L0L !!!

    The puppy dogs around Sir Rob Muldoon's ankles STILL after all these years of his demise ,… not even a shadow on him… and every other ChiNational PM since – INCLUDING BOLGER !!!!

    And even then it took a treasonous Labour Minister of Finance in 1984 to unlock what they truly wanted, enter Ruth Richardson – sitting board member of the London based Mont Pelerin Society .

    Would Sir Rob have ever sold this country and its people down the drain to foreign interests in the way these successive Labour and ChiNational party hacks ever did?

    I think NOT.

    Maybe that's part of the enduring success and appeal of Winston Peters, – he aint no turncoat. He supports Keynesianism and abhors neo liberalism.

    Just like Piggy did .

  11. Janet 11
    14 October 2019 at 7:50 pm

    I say no to online voting.

    I think it is good to get the voting papers in advance in the mail with some information about the candidates; but posting back did not work for me. I was trying to find more out about the candidates, to the last minute, when suddenly it was too late to post, which then meant a 18Km trip into the council to place my vote in the voting box.

    Rather than posting back, I think that on the last few days some voting return boxes should be placed strategically in the suburbs and villages. This means people who have difficulty in getting to a polling booth on a set day, or can,t be bothered to, can still place their votes. On the last day, Election Day (as in the past) people who can or prefer, will go directly to a polling booth to place their votes or deposit the voting papers received originally in the mail, in the return box.

    Is there any reason why local body elections and government elections cannot be run on the same day and Polling Day be made a big fun nationwide event.

  12. roblogic 12
    14 October 2019 at 10:34 pm

    I wonder what the kind of demographic skew is caused by a postal ballot. I suspect a lot of lower income voters miss out.

  13. Phil 13
    15 October 2019 at 10:26 am

    One of the things that hasn't been mentioned yet for low turnout is Option Paralysis. I do wonder if STV, in particular, suffers from this.

    With an MMP (or even FPP) vote at the GE you've got a relatively small list of candidate/party options with recognised brands and a high-penetration media environment to help narrow down your choices. Local elections tend to have the exact opposite of all those things. It makes the process of choosing who or what to vote for relatively hard.

    Bottom line for me is this: changing the voting mechanism, whether it be polling booths or online, does nothing to address the psychological barriers to local election voting.

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    Governor-General Dame Cindy Kiro arrives for the State Opening of Parliament (Photo: Hagen Hopkins/Getty Images)TL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:New Finance Minister Nicola Willis set herself a ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • New Zealand’s Witchcraft Laws: 1840/1858-1961/1962
    Sometimes one gets morbidly curious about the oddities of one’s own legal system. Sometimes one writes entire essays on New Zealand’s experience with Blasphemous Libel: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2017/05/09/blasphemous-libel-new-zealand-politics/ And sometimes one follows up the exact historical status of witchcraft law in New Zealand. As one does, of course. ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    3 days ago

  • No surprises
    Don’t expect any fiscal shocks or surprises when the books are opened on December 20 with the unveiling of the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU). That was the message yesterday from Westpac in an economic commentary. But the bank’s analysis did not include any changes to capital ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago

  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #49 2023
    113 articles in 48 journals by 674 contributing authors Physical science of climate change, effects Diversity of Lagged Relationships in Global Means of Surface Temperatures and Radiative Budgets for CMIP6 piControl Simulations, Tsuchida et al., Journal of Climate 10.1175/jcli-d-23-0045.1 Do abrupt cryosphere events in High Mountain Asia indicate earlier tipping ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • Phone calls at Kia Kaha primary
    It is quiet reading time in Room 13! It is so quiet you can hear the Tui outside. It is so quiet you can hear the Fulton Hogan crew.It is so quiet you can hear old Mr Grant and old Mr Bradbury standing by the roadworks and counting the conesand going on ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • A question of confidence is raised by the Minister of Police, but he had to be questioned by RNZ to ...
    It looks like the new ministerial press secretaries have quickly learned the art of camouflaging exactly what their ministers are saying – or, at least, of keeping the hard news  out of the headlines and/or the opening sentences of the statements they post on the home page of the governments ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • Xmas  good  cheer  for the dairy industry  as Fonterra lifts its forecast
    The big dairy co-op Fonterra  had  some Christmas  cheer to offer  its farmers this week, increasing its forecast farmgate milk price and earnings guidance for  the year after what it calls a strong start to the year. The forecast  midpoint for the 2023/24 season is up 25cs to $7.50 per ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • MICHAEL BASSETT: Modern Maori myths
    Michael Bassett writes – Many of the comments about the Coalition’s determination to wind back the dramatic Maorification of New Zealand of the last three years would have you believe the new government is engaged in a full-scale attack on Maori. In reality, all that is happening ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • Dreams of eternal sunshine at a spotless COP28
    Mary Robinson asked Al Jaber a series of very simple, direct and highly pertinent questions and he responded with a high-octane public meltdown. Photos: Getty Images / montage: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR The hygiene effects of direct sunshine are making some inroads, perhaps for the very first time, on the normalised ‘deficit ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • LINDSAY MITCHELL: Oh, the irony
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – Appointed by new Labour PM Jacinda Ardern in 2018, Cindy Kiro headed the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) tasked with reviewing and recommending reforms to the welfare system. Kiro had been Children’s Commissioner during Helen Clark’s Labour government but returned to academia subsequently. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Transport Agencies don’t want Harbour Tunnels
    It seems even our transport agencies don’t want Labour’s harbour crossing plans. In August the previous government and Waka Kotahi announced their absurd preferred option the new harbour crossing that at the time was estimated to cost $35-45 billion. It included both road tunnels and a wiggly light rail tunnel ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    4 days ago

  • Webworm Presents: Jurassic Park on 35mm
    Hi,Paying Webworm members such as yourself keep this thing running, so as 2023 draws to close, I wanted to do two things to say a giant, loud “THANKS”. Firstly — I’m giving away 10 Mister Organ blu-rays in New Zealand, and another 10 in America. More details down below.Secondly — ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago

  • The Prime Minister's Dream.
    Yesterday saw the State Opening of Parliament, the Speech from the Throne, and then Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s dream for Aotearoa in his first address. But first the pomp and ceremony, the arrival of the Governor General.Dame Cindy Kiro arrived on the forecourt outside of parliament to a Māori welcome. ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • National’s new MP; the proud part-Maori boy raised in a state house
    Probably not since 1975 have we seen a government take office up against such a wall of protest and complaint. That was highlighted yesterday, the day that the new Parliament was sworn in, with news that King Tuheitia has called a national hui for late January to develop a ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago

  • Climate Adam: Battlefield Earth – How War Fuels Climate Catastrophe
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). War, conflict and climate change are tearing apart lives across the world. But these aren't separate harms - they're intricately connected. ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • They do not speak for us, and they do not speak for the future
    These dire woeful and intolerant people have been so determinedly going about their small and petulant business, it’s hard to keep up. At the end of the new government’s first woeful week, Audrey Young took the time to count off its various acts of denigration of Te Ao Māori:Review the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Another attack on te reo
    The new white supremacist government made attacking te reo a key part of its platform, promising to rename government agencies and force them to "communicate primarily in English" (which they already do). But today they've gone further, by trying to cut the pay of public servants who speak te reo: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago

  • For the record, the Beehive buzz can now be regarded as “official”
    Buzz from the Beehive The biggest buzz we bring you from the Beehive today is that the government’s official website is up and going after being out of action for more than a week. The latest press statement came  from  Education Minister  Eric Stanford, who seized on the 2022 PISA ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago

  • Climate Change: Failed again
    There was another ETS auction this morning. and like all the other ones this year, it failed to clear - meaning that 23 million tons of carbon (15 million ordinary units plus 8 million in the cost containment reserve) went up in smoke. Or rather, they didn't. Being unsold at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On The Government’s Assault On Maori
    This isn’t news, but the National-led coalition is mounting a sustained assault on Treaty rights and obligations. Even so, Christopher Luxon has described yesterday’s nationwide protests by Maori as “pretty unfair.” Poor thing. In the NZ Herald, Audrey Young has compiled a useful list of the many, many ways that ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    5 days ago

  • Rising costs hit farmers hard, but  there’s more  positive news  for  them this  week 
    New Zealand’s dairy industry, the mainstay of the country’s export trade, has  been under  pressure  from rising  costs. Down on the  farm, this  has  been  hitting  hard. But there  was more positive news this week,  first   from the latest Fonterra GDT auction where  prices  rose,  and  then from  a  report ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    5 days ago

  • ROB MacCULLOCH:  Newshub and NZ Herald report misleading garbage about ACT’s van Veldon not follo...
    Rob MacCulloch writes –  In their rush to discredit the new government (which our MainStream Media regard as illegitimate and having no right to enact the democratic will of voters) the NZ Herald and Newshub are arguing ACT’s Deputy Leader Brooke van Veldon is not following Treasury advice ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Top 10 for Wednesday, December 6
    Even many young people who smoke support smokefree policies, fitting in with previous research showing the large majority of people who smoke regret starting and most want to quit. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Wednesday, December ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • Eleven years of work.
    Well it didn’t take six months, but the leaks have begun. Yes the good ship Coalition has inadvertently released a confidential cabinet paper into the public domain, discussing their axing of Fair Pay Agreements (FPAs).Oops.Just when you were admiring how smoothly things were going for the new government, they’ve had ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Why we're missing out on sharply lower inflation
    A wave of new and higher fees, rates and charges will ripple out over the economy in the next 18 months as mayors, councillors, heads of department and price-setters for utilities such as gas, electricity, water and parking ramp up charges. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Just when most ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • How Did We Get Here?
    Hi,Kiwis — keep the evening of December 22nd free. I have a meetup planned, and will send out an invite over the next day or so. This sounds sort of crazy to write, but today will be Tony Stamp’s final Totally Normal column of 2023. Somehow we’ve made it to ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago

  • At a glance – Has the greenhouse effect been falsified?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago

  • New Zealaders  have  high expectations of  new  government:  now let’s see if it can deliver?
    The electorate has high expectations of the  new  government.  The question is: can  it  deliver?    Some  might  say  the  signs are not  promising. Protestors   are  already marching in the streets. The  new  Prime Minister has had  little experience of managing  very diverse politicians  in coalition. The economy he  ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    6 days ago

  • You won't believe some of the numbers you have to pull when you're a Finance Minister
    Nicola of Marsden:Yo, normies! We will fix your cost of living worries by giving you a tax cut of 150 dollars. 150! Cash money! Vote National.Various people who can read and count:Actually that's 150 over a fortnight. Not a week, which is how you usually express these things.And actually, it looks ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago

  • Pushback
    When this government came to power, it did so on an explicitly white supremacist platform. Undermining the Waitangi Tribunal, removing Māori representation in local government, over-riding the courts which had tried to make their foreshore and seabed legislation work, eradicating te reo from public life, and ultimately trying to repudiate ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago

  • Defence ministerial meeting meant Collins missed the Maori Party’s mischief-making capers in Parli...
    Buzz from the Beehive Maybe this is not the best time for our Minister of Defence to have gone overseas. Not when the Maori Party is inviting (or should that be inciting?) its followers to join a revolution in a post which promoted its protest plans with a picture of ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Threats of war have been followed by an invitation to join the revolution – now let’s see how th...
     A Maori Party post on Instagram invited party followers to ….  Tangata Whenua, Tangata Tiriti, Join the REVOLUTION! & make a stand!  Nationwide Action Day, All details in tiles swipe to see locations.  • This is our 1st hit out and tomorrow Tuesday the 5th is the opening ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Top 10 for Tuesday, December 4
    The RBNZ governor is citing high net migration and profit-led inflation as factors in the bank’s hawkish stance. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Tuesday, December 5, including:Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr says high net migration and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • Nicola Willis' 'show me the money' moment
    Willis has accused labour of “economic vandalism’, while Robertson described her comments as a “desperate diversion from somebody who can't make their tax package add up”. There will now be an intense focus on December 20 to see whether her hyperbole is backed up by true surprises. Photo montage: Lynn ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • CRL costs money but also provides huge benefits
    The City Rail Link has been in the headlines a bit recently so I thought I’d look at some of them. First up, yesterday the NZ Herald ran this piece about the ongoing costs of the CRL. Auckland ratepayers will be saddled with an estimated bill of $220 million each ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    6 days ago

  • And I don't want the world to see us.
    Is this the most shambolic government in the history of New Zealand? Given that parliament hasn’t even opened they’ve managed quite a list of achievements to date.The Smokefree debacle trading lives for tax cuts, the Trumpian claims of bribery in the Media, an International award for indifference, and today the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago

  • Cooking the books
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis late yesterday stopped only slightly short of accusing her predecessor Grant Robertson of cooking the books. She complained that the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), due to be made public on December 20, would show “fiscal cliffs” that would amount to “billions of ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • Most people don’t realize how much progress we’ve made on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The year was 2015. ‘Uptown Funk’ with Bruno Mars was at the top of the music charts. Jurassic World was the most popular new movie in theaters. And decades of futility in international climate negotiations was about to come to an end in ...
    Skeptical Science
    7 days ago

  • Of Parliamentary Oaths and Clive Boonham
    As a heads-up, I am not one of those people who stay awake at night thinking about weird Culture War nonsense. At least so far as the current Maori/Constitutional arrangements go. In fact, I actually consider it the least important issue facing the day to day lives of New ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    7 days ago

  • Bearing True Allegiance?
    Strong Words: “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o ...
    Bowalley Road
    7 days ago

  • You cannot be serious
    Some days it feels like the only thing to say is: Seriously? No, really. Seriously?OneSomeone has used their health department access to share data about vaccinations and patients, and inform the world that New Zealanders have been dying in their hundreds of thousands from the evil vaccine. This of course is pure ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago

  • A promise kept: govt pulls the plug on Lake Onslow scheme – but this saving of $16bn is denounced...
    Buzz from the Beehive After $21.8 million was spent on investigations, the plug has been pulled on the Lake Onslow pumped-hydro electricity scheme, The scheme –  that technically could have solved New Zealand’s looming energy shortage, according to its champions – was a key part of the defeated Labour government’s ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago

  • CHRIS TROTTER: The Maori Party and Oath of Allegiance
    If those elected to the Māori Seats refuse to take them, then what possible reason could the country have for retaining them?   Chris Trotter writes – Christmas is fast approaching, which, as it does every year, means gearing up for an abstruse general knowledge question. “Who was ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago

  • BRIAN EASTON:  Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes – The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago

  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    1 week ago

  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago

  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago

  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    1 week ago

  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago

  • First big test coming
    The first big test of the new Government’s approach to Treaty matters is likely to be seen in the return of the Resource Management Act. RMA Minister Chris Bishop has confirmed that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal Labour’s recently passed Natural and Built Environments Act and its ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago

  • Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity
    New Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga begins
    The Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says.  “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in Dubai
    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Study shows need to remove distractions in class
    The Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.   The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Post-Cabinet press conference
    Most weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago

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