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Open mike 10/10/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 10th, 2022 - 75 comments
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75 comments on “Open mike 10/10/2022 ”

  1. Jenny are we there yet 1


    It's not that employers can't pay decent living wages. It's just that they don't want to, they would prefer to exploit vulnerable migrant workers. Unlike other workers migrant workers are bound by law to one employer on pain of being deported if they try to better their condition by leaving for another position. And if they dare complain about their wages or conditions will not be picked for future work.

    Six-figure roles for skilled labourers, excavator operators, carpenters

    Susan Edmunds 05:00, Oct 10 2022

    * Queenstown's construction industry 'volatile' with critical labour shortage

    ….the rate was indicative of the current market. The client was happy to pay more for someone, provided it could get people, he said.

    “We’ve been doing this for 26 years and never in my career in this industry have I experienced it where the client is saying two things they haven’t said before – the first is they don’t care so much about the cost, they need people.

    “The second is that previously they've been quite particular about people having to have certain skills… now they’ll just take a punt.”

    Brad Olsen: Econ Talks – Wage growth accelerates as unemployment bounces to 3.3%

    Wages rose as unemployment also ticked up slightly in the June quarter, data from Stats NZ shows.

    He said labourers who might previously have earned 50c or $1 more than minimum wage could now command up to $5 because businesses were “that keen” to hire staff.

    Economist Brad Olsen said it was an example of an employer trying to capture a broad variety of people.

    The job ad noted that a lack of experience was not necessarily a problem, so long as the person had a good attitude.

    “What this reflects is that at the moment with these ads, they’re looking for anyone – as a business they are not being able to be picky or direct on what skills or skill bases they want … they’re having to take what labour is available and employees have a lot more ability to dictate terms and demand what they want because there is a huge need for people.”

    Olsen said there was a clear opportunity for someone who was experienced and could manage at team, or be relied upon to take on more work, to earn good money.

    …a retail role at Furniture Clearance Co in Napier was offering $28 an hour, which would work out at about $58,000 a year for someone working full time, significantly higher than the national average of $51,739 for retail jobs.

    Olsen said the employer was having to sell itself to potential workers – outlining at the top of the ad what the business could offer rather than what it was looking for. “It does highlight a change in how businesses are having to recruit.”

    Seasonal worker cap increased to 19,000 people….

    ….Emma Consedine, chief executive at 40 Foot Consulting, said there were surprisingly high salaries on offer in other sectors, too, as employers around the country struggled to find staff…..

    ….“Most companies in tech are experiencing huge numbers of vacancies that they are not able to fill.”

    She expected that to change when more potential candidates were able to come into the country.

    Olsen said while there was an opportunity for workers at the moment, it would not last forever. “It’s important to be aware that conditions can and often have changed quite quickly in the labour market.”

    But Eder was less sure that conditions would change soon…..

    …..it takes a while for people – migrants and working holiday people – to get here. Particularly with the hiccups at Immigration NZ in comparison to the welcome mat that Australia is throwing out."

    He said it was possible the shortage of workers could continue through next year.


    Don’t misunderstand me here. I am not against migrant workers.

    Our economic recovery depends on them.

    But they should have the same rights to leave a job and change employers to better their conditions.

    A more equal labour market will stop employers playing migrant workers off against local workers, to keep wages low for both groups.

    Justice for migrants.


  2. Stephen D 2


    A longish read, and a bit heavy going, but a fascinating discussion about the long arcs of geopolitical history.

    ”International systems are dynamic, not static. Although they may enjoy long periods of relative stability or stasis, they are fluid in nature and therefore prone to change over time. In the last century stable world order cycles have become shorter and transitional cycles have become longer due to a number of factors, including technological advances in areas such as transportation and telecommunications, demographic shifts, the globalisation of production, consumption and exchange, ideological diffusion, cultural transfer and increased permeability of national borders. Status quos are more short-lived and transitional moments–moments leading to systemic realignment–are decades in length.

    We are currently in the midst of such a long transitional moment.“

  3. weka 3

    Is anyone else following the Mermaids meltdown? Short of writing a long, detailed post, I'm at a loss as how to explain it to anyone who hasn't been following.

    • weka 3.1

      I am considering writing a post, but everyday more comes out and the amount of research needed has exploded.

    • Bearded Git 3.2


    • Molly 3.3

      I am.

      Response to a support tweet which lists some of the issues, I think just creating a list is the way to go. I'll add if I think you have missed any. Alternatively, I'm home most of this morning so we could collaborate.

      Of course, since tweeting this last night the information around their digital communications employee, Darren Mews has come to light.

      Click tweet to read list.

      • Molly 3.3.1

        blush Wrong tweet:

      • weka 3.3.2

        thanks Molly. I have to go out this morning, but will email you.

        Saw the Darren Mews bit on Maya Forstater's twitter. I'm tempted to put up a running post where I just add the new content every day. So people can actually see the content not being reported in MSM, but also how much of it there is, and the progress of it unfolding.

        • Molly

          I think the phrase "Not a bug, but a feature" that's been proffered, is an apt one.

          The culture there – and in other similar organisations – seems to be one of Queer Theory boundary breaking and elimination of safeguards. I have some bookmarks of Mermaid standard greeting screenshotted by a family that tells children to not use the family email, but to create a separate one for communication on the forum. Coupled with the advice to move to a Discord server, it is apparent the basic safeguarding protocols with children were deliberately abandoned.

          I'll check my emails on my return. yes

          • weka

            Not a bug, is a good lead in for a post.

            I think the boundary breakdowns and the connections with Queer Theory and child sex abuse is the way in. May as well put it all out there.

          • weka

            Dropping this soo can find it later. Feeling I should be putting content warnings up. Mermaids supported and accepted online porn fundraiser.

            What’s even more fucked up is I will have to explain why that is wrong.

            • weka

              and this

    • left for dead 3.4

      Weka,a link would help ?

      • Matiri 3.4.1

        The irony of asking a moderator for a link wink

        • left for dead

          What,weka's renown for asking and providing.frown

        • weka

          not really. The only requirement here for links is with quotes (at the time) or claims of fact (when asked for, but good to put links up front).

          People can talk about whatever they want, and people can ask for links to explain. As happened here.

      • weka 3.4.2

        as you can see from my comment, this is a very difficult event to explain. Including with a single link. I'll see what I can come up with.

        Mermaids is a charity in the UK that provides services to trans and other gender non-conforming youth and children.

        You can start here,


        • left for dead

          Cheers weka,I wasn't being cheeky.surprise

          edit. that I know,why are they falling apart,to my mind about time they helped trans people and not hinder.

          • weka

            all good 👍


            • Mermaids made a complaint about the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Alliance to the Charity Commission, claiming they're not a charity
            • In that investigation, the spotlight also went on Mermaids
            • This includes the Mail investigation re the things Mermaids has been doing that undermine child safeguarding. Two of the Trustees resigned at this time
            • last week, it was revealed that one of the remaining Trustees is an academic with a history of writing pro-child sex pieces. He has since resigned. The issues is whether Mermaids knew and didn't care, or didn't know because they didn't screen their Trustees.
            • Orgs that have been using Mermaids as a referral service have started telling their staff to stop doing this.

            In addition to that, there are connections between Mermaids, Queer Theory, and pro-paedophilia. The left won't talk about it, because we're not allowed to criticise the Rainbow people. But there is a huge amount of discussion and material being shared by GC people on twitter and it is damning.

            • Molly

              I think it's important to underline HOW influential this charity has been.

              Despite claiming in court to not be medical experts, they were meeting regularly with the Tavistock GIDS clinic, leveraging that relationship to advocate for "affirmation only" healthcare responses for those that sought medical help, and Susie Green (despite her non-medical background) is listed as one of the authors of the WPATH SoC 8 that has just been released which removed minimum age levels for medication and surgeries.

              They have also been very embedded in education, and institutional and corporate training, without oversight of materials or scrutiny of what is being delivered without evidence.

              There are many such organisations following the Mermaids model in the UK. And we also seem to have a couple in NZ. Apparently, they have an exemption from showing where their grants come from, but I have to double-check that information to confirm. Looking at the Charity Commission website there are no details of grant income, but I don't know why that is.

      • Molly 3.4.3

        Some articles in the Times on one or two aspects, but the full story and revelations are not in the media but on Twitter and independent sites.

        Archived – non paywall Times articles here which only scratch the surface:

        Mermaids: Trans youth group faces scrutiny by charity watchdog

        Trustee of the transgender charity Mermaids quits after speech to paedophile aid group

        Lottery pauses cash for trans charity Mermaids during investigation

      • Molly 3.4.4

        For those who prefer videos, Helen Joyce briefly outlines the situation on Andrew Doyles Free Speech Nation, and the challenges ahead:

        • left for dead

          Thanks,Molly. Have heard of Helen Joyce and listened,she's good value.

        • Anker

          thanks Molly and Weka for continuing to highlight what is happening re gender ideology in other parts of the world. The msm silence on these issues is deafening

  4. weka 4

    • weka 4.1

      • Graeme 4.1.1

        You've got to be currently getting water or sewage services form your local Council to come under the new Entities.

        There's some existing Council rural supplies that are agricultural mixed use that may be sold to their users rather than go into the Entities, Clutha and Waitaki have quite a few of these.

        There are also some existing private supplies that may look at moving to Entity ownership / management. I manage several small water supplies and one of those may be better in the Entity than being private. The other two are agricultural focused and will be outside the expertise of the entities.

        • weka

          do you mean that rural people on non-council domestic water won't be part of Three Waters? I've heard varying opinions about this, but don't regional councils have responsibility for those atm?

        • weka

          so will places that don't currently have water charges eg Dunedin, have water charges under Three Waters?

    • Graeme 4.2

      The rates are a function of the service provided. To reduce the rates councils have to reduce the service below the regulated minimums. These standards haven't really been tightened by recent legislation (Water Services Act 2021), but the enforcement and liabilities have been. The standards go back 30 – 50 years and have been ignored / procrastinated / debated by councils all that time. The tactics are the same as the farmer lobby is using to secure water rights in ORC.

      It's not a very pretty situation and some districts are downright ugly. At long last we've got a Government that is actually doing something about it.

      • weka 4.2.1

        yeah, but ignoring standards is on councils and the government could have passed legislation and enforced compliance. Regional councils have been allowed to do what they want, it's just daft to say that there aren't various ways this could be addressed.

        • Robert Guyton

          I'm puzzled by your antipathy toward 3 Waters, weka.


          • Cricklewood

            There is lots of hesitancy purely based on the fact that once control is centralized pretty much zero thought will be given to the needs and wants of small communities nor will thought be given about how and policy change will effect small communities. Many of which have invested in and have effective infrastructure already in place that meets the needs of those small communities

            • Incognito

              I think that’s not an accurate description. There’s definitely consideration of small(er) communities but where the convo becomes unhinged and unstuck (…) is how best to put this into practice. Co-government is the antithesis of centralisation, in essence.

              A second observation is that current infrastructure may be (just) adequate but as with all infrastructure, it requires constant upkeep, repair & maintenance that is increasingly more costly. Don’t forget that drinkable water is essential for well-being (good health) and that this is the primary objective, not the economic (or political) factors.

              • Shanreagh

                And don't ignore the elephant in the room…co-governance and 'those Maaaaaris'

                If we throw out Three Waters on grounds to do with cost/access to supply and local voice we don't have to put on our pretty horrible racist hat.

                This is very /sarc.


                • Incognito

                  Yes, indeed, but I do realise that many (?) people seem to think that Māori [will] only look after the interests of Māori and ‘shaft’ everyone else, i.e., those people might be projecting. I could dig further into the issue of racism vs. reverse-racism, but that would just raise a red flag for some 🙁

                  In my opinion too, the alleged Māori card is a huge red herring (aka large mammal in the room).

          • weka

            I don't trust the process that was used to get this far. I think the model will make local democracy worse than it is (we should retain localism wherever and whenever we can). I'm doubtful that suits in Chch have the necessary skills and experience to make decisions for small towns in Otago and Southland. I think not bringing people along is a massive mistake at this point in history. The amount of TINA lines being run is a big red flag.

        • Graeme

          Previously drinking water came under the Health Act, administered by MOH. This was completely useless and I don't think there was ever a prosecution despite some quite blatant breaches of standards (Havelock North and another in Queenstown in late 80's where 3000 people were very sick). Things sort of got fixed after the fact and that was that.

          Regional Councils have regulated discharges of sewage, and have been quite good. In Otago especially since Ngai Tahu have been involved, But that is only after the fact, they don't have any role until there is a discharge.

          Regulation of infrastructural practice and operation is the role of the new regulator established under Water Services Act 2021. Taumata Arowai is a rather grunty orgaisation with big boots and a bigger stick. There will be changes in how things are done irrespective of the 3 Waters reforms. However it's going to work a lot better for water users with the 3 Waters reforms as suppliers / Councils will have the scale to do the job at a more reasonable cost.

  5. joe90 5

    After nine months of murder, rape, torture, looting, and razing entire communities, Russia calls blowing up a bridge terrorism.

    That really takes the fucking biscuit.

    • Jenny are we there yet 5.1

      If bombing a bridge is terrorism. What is bombing the centre of a capitol city?

      • joe90 5.1.1

      • joe90 5.1.2

        Meet the new butcher.

        Russia has appointed a notorious general who opened fire on pro-democracy protesters in the 1990s as its first overall commander for the war in Ukraine, as the Kremlin struggles to halt a Ukrainian counteroffensive that has left its forces in disarray.


        Surovikin is a veteran commander who led the Russian military expedition in Syria in 2017, where he was accused of using “controversial” tactics including indiscriminate bombing against anti-government fighters.


        Yet Surovikin also has a checkered history that includes two stints in jail for allegedly selling weapons and for leading a military column against protesters during the 1991 coup. He has also previously served in Tajikistan and Chechnya.

        “For over 30 years, Surovikin’s career has been dogged with allegations of corruption and brutality,” wrote British intelligence officials in a recent report on Surovikin’s likely promotion to lead the southern military group.

        During the 1991 coup d’état attempt launched by Soviet hardliners, Surovikin, then a captain, led a rifle division that drove through barricades erected by pro-democracy protesters. Three men were killed in the clash, including one who was crushed.


    • mauī 5.2

      The fighting is in majority russian ethnic areas of ukraine. So what you're saying is that Russia is deliberately harming its own people, which is either crazy or you've got it wrong.

      • joe90 5.2.1

        Terrorists target civilians in densely populated city centers during morning rush hour with indiscriminate cruise missile attacks. They don't care who they kill.


        • mauī

          There are two sides to every story…

          • joe90

            Bartlett's stock-in-trade is whitewashing war crimes and spreading conspiracy theories. She's never given a fuck about the victims, let alone the evidence.

      • Jenny are we there yet 5.2.2

        “….Russia is deliberately harming its own people, which is either crazy or you’ve got it wrong.” Maui

        Odessa is a majority Russian speaking city. Yet Odessa has suffered months of non-stop Russian missile attacks on civilian infrastructure and housing.

        We have not got it wrong.

        The Russian Federation is a murderous avaricious fascistic state with designs on the whole of Ukraine as a colony of a new Imperial Russian empire.

  6. Peter 6

    The ACT party has put out some policies to do with co-governance and Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

    Karen Chhour​ who was in the news recently when Kelvin Davis made comments about her in the House, was at the launch. I can imagine her once again drawing attention with her 'colourblind' assimilation perspective.


    • Nic the NZer 6.1

      Whats that, ACT is ruling out going into coalition with National already? I don't think the Green Party has even voted on that issue for this election and obviously would have to wait to see Nationals election policies before undertaking such a vote.

      • Belladonna 6.1.1

        Nope. ACT just issuing statements of 'bottom lines' for future negotiation- which doesn't appear to be the way the GP operates, in any case.

        National (Luxon) have said it's too far out from the election for National to negotiate.

        It would be interesting to see just how 'bottom' all of the ACT bottom lines will be in reality. Would missing even one of them result in the party sitting on the cross-benches?

        Mind you- National have already said that they'll wind back 3 waters (including the co-governance aspects) – so they're on board with some of it already.


        • Nic the NZer

          Nope? Go on, nice David the twerking robot, wouldn't misslead people. Surely this is already as good as one of Chris the land Lords upcoming election promises.

      • weka 6.1.2

        Whats that, ACT is ruling out going into coalition with National already? I don't think the Green Party has even voted on that issue for this election and obviously would have to wait to see Nationals election policies before undertaking such a vote.

        I don't think it works like that with the Greens. I would have thought the remit was voted on at an AGM and stays policy until someone brings a different remit or a revision to be voted on. It's been while since I looked at it, but it basically says they won't support National into government because the policy gulf is too wide. I think it's safe to say that is still true.

        • weka

          hmm, you might be right. This post I wrote in 2017 basically says that at each election they reiterated their position. But I think I'm right too, in that it's quite a high level process to change the fundamental position (no to National).

          The Green Party’s coalition process

    • I don't know why it's particularly notable that an ACT MP was at an ACT policy launch.

      And the less said about Davis' racist comments, the better. Even his apology doesn't seem to have erased them from some minds.

      Debate the policy, not the person.

      • Peter 6.2.1

        Making an observation about the presentation is perfectly valid of course.

        If I were a media columnist comparing the position that Karen Chhour took today with the essence of the claim which Davis made, I'm sure that would be accepted as pertinent by many.

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