The right’s weird obsession with Darien Fenton

Written By: - Date published: 8:00 pm, October 3rd, 2011 - 261 comments
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National’s wee attack poodles seem to have fixated on Labour’s IR spokesperson Darien Fenton following her making a mean comment about the mad butcher on facebook and then apologising for it and offering to buy him a beer.

Now to me that seems like a pretty minor thing resolved in a pretty straight forward Kiwi kind of a way. But for some reason David Farrar and Cameron Slater have been getting their (rather large, I’m sure) knickers in a twist. Slater’s even called for her resignation! Even Matthew Hooton’s jumped on the bad wagon – according to him Fenton’s worse than Hitler (also, the standard’s part of a vast left wing jihadist feminazi liarboor conspiracy. Sigh).

The whole sideshow has become so rabid I’m starting to wonder about a few things. Like, why are these righties so worked up about Fenton? Are they scared of her? And why are they coming to the defense of Peter Lietch? I mean from what I hear he was a big NZ First supporter about the same time they were getting all worked up about Winston. And, come to think of it, what’s a working class fella like Leitch doing having a late night heart to heart with National’s muck-flinger?

It seems to me the ladies bloggers doth protest too much. I wonder why?

261 comments on “The right’s weird obsession with Darien Fenton ”

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  1. Draco T Bastard 1
    3 October 2011 at 8:03 pm

    It’s the political-right which means they’ll do anything to distract from real issues especially if they think they can paint the left in a bad light.

  2. Kaplan 2
    3 October 2011 at 8:22 pm

    I reckon it’s because Farrar is a creature of 100% spin.

    To see someone actually say what they think, unedited and in public, set’s his little mind into overdrive.

    You can almost see him thinking… ‘How can someone actually speak the truth about how they feel! They MUST be punished!’.

  3. mickysavage 3
    3 October 2011 at 8:36 pm

    The answer is simple.  Double credit downgrade.  Why debate the issue when with a lot of noise and froth people can be diverted away from realising what a fcuk up it is.

    • Anne 3.1
      3 October 2011 at 8:56 pm

      mickysavage is spot on.

      It seems to me the ladies doth protest too much. I wonder why?

      Sorry, don’t get that bit.

      • Julie Fairey 3.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 12:26 pm

        I think the implication is supposed to be that labelling two men as women is somehow demeaning to them. When actually it demeans the original writer imho. As do the pointless cracks about knickers.

        • Anne 3.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 12:37 pm

          Thanks Julie Fairey. A bit obtuse, but it needs also to be remembered that once upon a time the female roles were played by men. I think the ‘knickers in a twist’ is a fairly common garden expression nowadays.

          • IrishBill 3.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 6:04 pm

            Alternatively Julie could have checked the conversation I had with QoT further down the thread to see there was no intent vis-a-vis comparisons to women. I have however altered the line to make that clears

            As for what demeans whom, I’m glad to know that Julie is the arbitrator of such things and I don’t feel at all like I’ve had a value judgment made against me from on high.

            • Julie Fairey 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 October 2011 at 10:27 pm

              Fair call that I hadn’t seen the convo down thread. TLDR indeed.

              However, I read your post once you _had_ altered it, in reaction to QoT calling you on it. And I still read it pretty much the same way as she and others originally did.

              You aren’t v up with the internet lingo are you? imho means In My Humble Opinion. No statement that I’m the Queen of the World in that whatsoever, in fact an explicit acknowledgement that the sexist statement, intended or otherwise, demeaned the author _in my opinion_.

    • Vicky32 3.2
      4 October 2011 at 4:47 pm

      Why debate the issue when with a lot of noise and froth people can be diverted away from realising what a fcuk up it is.

      Exactly – a distraction is what Mathew Hooton was using it all as, on RNZ yesterday… amazingly Ryan didn’t let him get away with it!

  4. vto 4
    3 October 2011 at 8:47 pm

    ignore it.

    no more comments on this please.

  5. John 5
    3 October 2011 at 8:49 pm

    The Mad Butcher cried apparently when he heard about the comments.

    Of course Peter Leitch may want to have another cry for the unemployed and working class citizens who are getting totally buried by a National idiot who constanly uses them as whipping boys and has constantly taken money off them, taken spending power from the poorest sector in the country while disgustingly rewarding his fatcat mates

    Leitch, wake up, grow up, stop lurking around like some innocent thirteen year old.

    Poverty fucking hurts motherfucker, Leitch is an idiot to support Key and I hope South Auckland walks away from the shops he promotes. The Mad butcher is a failed businessman who now just markets someone elses butcheries with his shameless and now creepy rants about cheap unhealthy meats. We need some grownups in the business sector, don’t suck up to “poor bashing ” politicians especially if your brand is connected with that class. ….and fuck all charity, pay your taxes.

  6. SHG 6
    3 October 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Every time something happens that could reflect badly on the National Government you can rely on a Labour MP having a public brain spasm resulting in so much negative publicity that afterwards “Labour are fucking useless” is all that people remember.

    National doesn’t need a comms unit to manipulate public perception – it has the Labour caucus.

    • mickysavage 6.1
      3 October 2011 at 8:59 pm

      Message to SHG

      From CrosbytextorNZ

      Well done.  Good use of  the strategy.  You managed to post a comment and make no direct reference that could be linked to the double credit rating downgrade.  

      Your post was also really abusive and tacky, well done.

      Your shift ends at 23:00.  Please make sure you have posted another 10 comments by then.

      Message ends … 

      • SHG 6.1.1
        3 October 2011 at 9:09 pm

        The unavoidable conclusion is that Fenton, Mallard, Curran, Hughes, Goff, King, Jones, Cunliffe, Cosgrove, and Wall are all agents of Crosby-Textor.

        • IrishBill 6.1.1.1
          3 October 2011 at 9:15 pm

          um she made a comment on facebook and then apologised for it and offered a beer. That seems quite reasonable to me. Would you like to explain exactly what the problem is?

          • SHG 6.1.1.1.1
            3 October 2011 at 10:25 pm

            For the me the “hook” (to use a comms term) of Fenton’s Facebook post was this:

            Brad Gibbons: Perhaps Labour should work to earn back (Leitch’s) support then?

            Darien Fenton: Brad – why?

            Couldn’t have been better for National if Crosby-Textor had scripted it. A public post from a Labour List MP that reinforces every stereotype they could possibly want.

            • IrishBill 6.1.1.1.1.1
              3 October 2011 at 10:37 pm

              That’s a hook for you? My god “cat stuck in tree” stories must really hold you in thrall.You need to get a life pal.

              • SHG …
                3 October 2011 at 10:52 pm

                A Labour List MP from a union background publicly asking “why?” Labour should work to earn back a voter’s support is a lot more revealing.

                • IrishBill …
                  3 October 2011 at 10:57 pm

                  No it’s not. Which is why nobody in the MSM made that their “angle” (See what I did there? I used another “comms” word).

                  • SHG …
                    3 October 2011 at 11:58 pm

                    Well, I noticed it. So did other commenters on Fenton’s FB page before she sanitised it (itself an act of communications ineptness).

                    • IrishBill …
                      4 October 2011 at 7:12 am

                      So you’re a National supporter that hangs out on labour party MP’s facebook pages a lot? Now I’m sure you need to get a life.

                • Rich …
                  4 October 2011 at 12:47 pm

                  I wouldn’t expect many multi-millionaires to vote for a left-of-centre party. About the only ones I can think of in NZ would be the Morgans.

        • mickysavage 6.1.1.2
          3 October 2011 at 9:27 pm

          Well done SHG.  Another really nonsensical comment.  Only 7 to go now …

    • McFlock 6.2
      3 October 2011 at 9:00 pm

      Every time something happens that could reflect badly on the National Government you can rely on a Labour MP having a public brain spasm resulting in so much negative publicity that afterwards “Labour are fucking useless” is all that people remember.

      Funny, that. Also, have you ever noticed how there’s almost always exactly enough news in the world to fill an hour of New Zealand TV every night (including ads). Two of life’s mysteries, I guess.

  7. randal 7
    3 October 2011 at 8:56 pm

    well the right are weird period. its not the poor who are the sexual deviants and creepy sneaks. and perverts. No names no pack drill but what about the christian guy who used his position with the justice department to abuse children and would not admit it.

  8. John 8
    3 October 2011 at 9:05 pm

    SHG….STFU, Fenton was right . This fearful , don’t upset anyone politics is killing this country. Leitch was way out of line , way out of line, people are hurting, key is a disgrace, it;s not labours fault that the media is and always has been tory, it’s just the disgrace that our media is. I’m sure if David Lange were alive today he would have said the same thing. Key is bad news for the poor, really bad news, that’s the news.

    The Mad Butcher is not taking the burdon of this recession, ridicolously and once again disgustingly it’s the poor who are being whipped, the fuckers who have no representation at national media level apart from front page demonisation.

    and the hypocracy of Kiwiblob and mentalblogger to say this is meanspirited is just a joke. Do they ever read their own websites. They are the lowest pits of political discussion this country has ever seen and quite scary. Fenton is off the mad butcher brand forever and i understand why and so do you, Leitch made the mistake, not fenton.

    • IrishBill 8.1
      3 October 2011 at 9:13 pm

      Sorry but I’m not convinced John. Fenton shouldn’t have said what she did about Leitch but I think her apology was fine. i’m truely baffled as to why the righties are so upset about it – especially as Leitch was a big Winston supporter and they hate Winston more than anything else in the universe.

      • SHG 8.1.1
        3 October 2011 at 9:20 pm

        i’m truely baffled as to why the righties are so upset about it

        They’re not. They think it’s great. Because, on cue, just when something happens that might reflect badly on the government an eminently dislikeable Labour MP has a public brain spasm, and the Labour Party’s total ineptness when it comes to communications has become the story. Again.

        • mickysavage 8.1.1.1
          3 October 2011 at 9:31 pm

          So lets see, on one hand we have the country’s economy under threat.  On the other hand we have a couple of ill chosen words on a Facebook page.  Of course both things are just as important as each other and RWNJs have to, in the interests of our country’s future jump up and down about those couple of words and denigrate Darien who is almost perfect but obviously not quite there.

          Give me a break.

          You RWNJs are embarrassing and so transparent.  The king of RWNJs matthew Hooton gave it away today on morning report.

          You are not debating the issues. You are blowing as much smoke as you can because you realise National is vulnerable.

          Lovin that Change feeling yet? 

          • Pete George 8.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 7:06 am

            This wasn’t just a story promoted by the bogies from the right nostril, you would know that if you read Red Alert and could see what many on the left seemed to think.

            Anyway I thought this was last week’s story. Why give it more legs if it’s just a diversion from the important issues?

        • IrishBill 8.1.1.2
          3 October 2011 at 9:32 pm

          A facebook comment and an apology. That’s the story? Did anyone but the rightwing blogs and granny herald actually run it?

        • Vicky32 8.1.1.3
          4 October 2011 at 5:13 pm

          an eminently dislikeable Labour MP

          Why do you consider her eminently dislikeable? Because she’s a unionist or because she’s a woman, or both?

      • Anne 8.1.2
        3 October 2011 at 9:40 pm

        Sorry Irishbill but I think Peter Leitch was the one out of line with his public endorsement of John Key.

        If it had happened six or more months ago most would have just shrugged their shoulders but, given his high profile, he was wrong to say it so close to the election. Yes, Darien’s response was a tad intemperate, but I can understand why she said it. Remember her background as a Union delegate. She knows the terrible effects the NAct govt’s policies are having on ordinary working people – especially those in the lower socio-economic group. His words would have sounded like a total betrayal of the very people he claims to care about.

        She did the right thing and apologised profusely. Maybe Peter Leitch should say sorry too for his original intemperate comment.

      • Pete 8.1.3
        4 October 2011 at 1:55 pm

        The Mad Butcher was also a very strong supporter of Helen Clarke. My 11 yr old had to choose a famous NZ’er for a class project. Well over half the class chose Sir Peter Leitch. The man is universally loved for his generosity of spirit. If you had asked me I would have thought he was a Labour supporter until he made his comments about Key.
        I thought Fenton’s comments were more than just a brain fart. Although some right wing bloggers may have led the chorus, it would be a huge mistake not to realise that many left and middle of the spectrum voters were deeply offended.
        Fenton’s comments were more like a Freudian slip. My concern about the Labour party is that they still don’t understand why many left leaning voters like me are not listening. The fact that Febnton had to ask why Labour should try and win support back was most telling of all. Plus it was really a Claytons apology. Their communications strategy has been very poor. Most of the people I associate with (middle NZ’ers) are really tired of the vindictive stuff from Labour politicians.

        • Vicky32 8.1.3.1
          4 October 2011 at 5:19 pm

          I thought Fenton’s comments were more than just a brain fart. Although some right wing bloggers may have led the chorus, it would be a huge mistake not to realise that many left and middle of the spectrum voters were deeply offended.

          Why? What on earth did she say that was so bad? Seriously…

          • Pete 8.1.3.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 5:42 pm

            Hi Vicky32. To answer your question, the remarks were incredibly stupid. When Labour is struggling in the polls (to put it mildly) attacking one of the most respected and loved NZ’ers is a very bad look. Leitch is loved because he has a big heart and he cares about the ‘little person’. He has mana within the South Auckland electorates.
            For a Labour list MP to make such mean spirited remarks about someone who has earned universal respect for his good works, from all parts of the political spectrum, was an appalling gaffe. The problem for Labour is that it is just another indication to the public, that they are just not hearing the feedback. To ask why Labour might need to earn back his support displayed an arrogant and elitist attitude.
            It is not just right wingers who got their knickers in a twist over this. I have a large extended family of mainly left leaning voters. Without exception the reaction was shock, and repugnance.

            • felix 8.1.3.1.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 6:02 pm

              You opened your comment with “To answer your question”. Wha happen? You get distracted or something?

              ‘Cos if I recall correctly the question was “What on earth did she say that was so bad?”

              It’s weird, it’s like you’re all so busy being upset that you can’t remember what upset you.

              I reckon in about 3 years this’ll be another “feral inbreds” and you’ll all be saying Darien wished him dead or some such bullshit.

              So. Care to have another go at it?

              • Pete …
                4 October 2011 at 6:25 pm

                No actually I don’t wish to have another go at it. I answered her question quite fully, both in terms of the inappropriateness of the comments and the context within which they were made. I also treated her question with respect and courtesy.
                It is not people like you that Labour needs to focus on. It is people like myself that are currently left voting, but outside the margins for Labour at the moment.
                Your comment about feral inbreds makes no sense to me, and I don’t wish to engage in personal rhetoric.

                • felix …
                  4 October 2011 at 6:40 pm

                  Actually Pete you didn’t even come close to answering her question.

                  You said what you thought of the remarks (stupid, mean, repugnant appalling etc), but the question asked what the remarks were that have you so upset.

                  So what was it?

                  They must’ve been pretty awful, no one seems to be able to repeat them. did she call him a pedo or something?

                  Worse?

                  No personal rhetoric in my comments to you Pete, just straight questions. How about a straight answer?

            • Vicky32 8.1.3.1.1.2
              4 October 2011 at 6:58 pm

              Hi Vicky32. To answer your question, the remarks were incredibly stupid

              Yes, but you haven’t answered my question! In detail please, what are the words she used that caused “shock and repugnance”? AFAIK, she simply said she didn’t want to be near him any more. Contrary to what y’all insist, she didn’t call for a boycott, in fact she said the precise opposite – that she wasn’t calling for a boycott!

    • SHG 8.2
      3 October 2011 at 9:13 pm

      What you describe as “don’t upset anyone” politics I might characterise as “don’t smear a guy that your core demographic regard as a hero” politics.

      Sorry, I meant FORMER core demographic. See known right-wing nutjob Chris Trotter:

      http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2011/10/auslander.html

    • Zetetic 8.3
      3 October 2011 at 9:29 pm

      John.

      Fenton was wrong in principle: Labour doesn’t own Leitch’s vote, and politically: her comment reinforced the narrative of Labour being bitter and nasty, which I know it’s Fenton’s character at all but the msm was all too keen to pick up once Farrar and Whaleoil had brought it to their attention.

      Labour should be working to make friends with vote multipliers like Leitch – it’s what National has been doing – rather than getting shitty at any of them who don’t give the party their undying support. Leitch is clearly no political mastermind. Just someone who feels honoured being treated well by people with power, and will tend to reward them with his endorsement. There’s a lot of community figures like him who Labour could easily win over.

      That said, it was just a mistake and she dealt with it the right way. She didn’t keep digging. She offered an apology and that should have been an end to it.

      • Anne 8.3.1
        3 October 2011 at 10:15 pm

        Fenton was wrong in principle: Labour doesn’t own Leitch’s vote,

        But Darien Fenton never said Labour did. Of course, his voting pattern is his business.

        Leitch has never politically endorsed Labour. Indeed he’s on record saying back in the time of Helen Clark’s stewardship that “he never talks about the politics”. Well, a week or so ago he apparently (and conveniently?) forgot he had said that.

        • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 8.3.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 11:07 am

          Given the ongoing refernce to Letich as a “class traitor” on this matter, combined with Curran’s railking against the Greens for stealing Labours viotes, one could conclude that their is indeed a sense of ‘ownership’ amongst Labour MPs on the votes of workers and beneficiaries.

  9. Paul 9
    3 October 2011 at 9:09 pm

    The corporate media – a weapon of mass distraction

  10. Tiger Mountain 10
    3 October 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Firstly, there is deep woman hate expressed in varying degrees by most tories. Secondly, Darien is a unionist, again pathological hatred. Thirdly, Sir Mad’ is indeed a useful diversion during the week of “downgrade”.

    • Rodel 10.1
      3 October 2011 at 10:57 pm

      Ha! Sir Mad…I like that
      I’ve met him. A noisy bugger, nice enough, not the brightest sausage in the shop but good at the money making template and good luck to him, but hey if John Key gives you a knighthood, the ultimate prize for thickos with no understanding of the aristocratic heritage of massacres, then you’re obliged aren’t you, to reciprocate by supporting those who bestowed you with the title sir… maybe even believing that you’re one of the aristocracy yourself…even if you have no appreciation of the implications of your support. At least politicians can’t give out honorary doctorates … yet

      Yea ‘Sir Mad’ I like it ….solid as reckon.

  11. QoT 11
    3 October 2011 at 9:22 pm

    It seems to me the ladies doth protest too much.

    I’m sorry, IB, is there something inherently wrong about being a woman that you’d like to point out? Must be, since you’re using gender as an insult.

    • IrishBill 11.1
      3 October 2011 at 9:30 pm

      I’m paraphrasing Hamlet. you know – “the lady doth protest too much, methinks”. It’s traditionally used to describe a situation in which too great a ruckus raises suspicion of a hidden crime. It’s got nothing to do with being a lady.

      • QoT 11.1.1
        3 October 2011 at 9:51 pm

        And of course “the bloggers doth protest too much, methinks” wouldn’t have made exactly the same point without the dogwhistle to misogyny. Oh wait, I forgot, we live in a vacuum and questioning other men’s masculinity using woman-related language isn’t really tragically common in our political discourse.

        Also worth noting: the quote is uttered by Gertrude while watching Hamlet’s entrapment-play. It’s ironic because, you see, she’s commenting on the love-declarations of a character who represents herself pre-marrying her husband’s murderer; when the play-queen says “And never come mischance between us twain!” Gertrude is expressing doubt about the play-queen’s sincerity.

        Not of course that one could draw any kind of connection between that and leftwing bloggers professing skepticism over rightwing bloggers’ outrage at offhand, trivial matters instead of focusing on real issues. But I await the next use of the “John Key on the catwalk, what a f*g” gif with bated breath.

        TLDR? Save everyone the hassle next time, be aware of the fairly obviously sexist culture you live in, stop giving feminist bloggers yet more material with which to wonder why the fuck we should stay quiet about our girly matters till the Revolution comes.

        • IrishBill 11.1.1.1
          3 October 2011 at 10:07 pm

          Okay firstly I have no idea what TDLR means. Secondly, , it’s about thirty years since I last read Hamlet so forgive me if I’ve forgotten the context of the quote. And finally, yes I could have written “the bloggers etc” but as I appear to lack the understanding of the nuances of english language required to even recognise that I’m writing something that could be considered sexist, I’m not sure how I could avoid further transgressions especially given the structural sexism of the language itself. Any advice?

          • QoT 11.1.1.1.1
            3 October 2011 at 10:12 pm

            The concept of “not using the word “ladies” when referring to males because such language is commonly used to degrade” is “nuanced” now?

            I mean, yes, structural issues with our language (gosh, it’s not like people have been working against that with so-called “politically correct” alternative words for decades) but if you honestly can’t see why contributing to the idea that calling men ladies in a derogatory manner [ETA] is sexist I’m certainly not going near the actual difficult stuff.

            (I’m not even getting into how the common, context-deprived use of that quote buys into notions about women not ever meaning what they say or a woman’s “no” not really meaning “no” because apparently this would fly right over your head.)

            TLDR = “too long, didn’t read”. Because I know we women just ramble on all the time.

            • IrishBill 11.1.1.1.1.1
              3 October 2011 at 10:34 pm

              Um, I wasn’t comparing Slater and co to “ladies” was making a literary allusion which I assumed underscored the fact they appear to be covering something up with noisy misdirection. Turns out I was wrong.

              And by “structural sexism” I wasn’t talking about individual words (“PC” or otherwise) but making a facetious point about the power dynamics inherent in a grammar that has been established during hundreds of years of patriarchy.

              As for your your TLDR comment? What the fuck? Do you really think I make my decision to read a comment or not based on whether the commenter has a penis?

              Edit: By the way I’ve changed it.

              • vto …
                4 October 2011 at 8:00 am

                poor show in changing it mr bill.

              • Lanthanide …
                4 October 2011 at 9:40 am

                Personally when I read it and it said “ladies”, a did feel some slight unease about it, as if you were calling them ladies as an insult. If you had said “the lady doth protest too much”, that would be fine because it’s a direct quote. But changing it to “ladies” somehow makes me uneasy. I think QoT saw it the same way, but I’m not surprised that you (or anyone) wouldn’t see it that way – I think it’s a pretty marginal interpretation.

                TL;DR is a common internet slang that is sometimes used in a dismissive way. If you’re in an argument, you can put it at the end as a way to “dumb down” your argument so your opponent can understand what you’re saying. It can also be used to “cut to the chase” and emphasize a central point that may not have been clearly conveyed in your original reply. I think QoT was using it in both of these ways, and her reply at 11.1.1.1 was more of a sarcastic jibe than anything serious, I think. I could of course be completely wrong, but that’s just my take on what she said.

                • felix …
                  4 October 2011 at 10:21 am

                  Personally when I read it and it said “ladies”, a did feel some slight unease about it, as if you were calling them ladies as an insult. If you had said “the lady doth protest too much”, that would be fine because it’s a direct quote. But changing it to “ladies” somehow makes me uneasy.

                  Pretty much exactly what I was thinking Lanth.

            • The Voice of Reason 11.1.1.1.1.2
              3 October 2011 at 10:36 pm

              So, would it be Ok if I used the phrase in connection with your contribution here, QoT?
               
              Or maybe this one, also from the Dane:
               
              Conscience does make cowards of us all.
               
               

            • Vicky32 11.1.1.1.1.3
              4 October 2011 at 5:28 pm

              (I’m not even getting into how the common, context-deprived use of that quote buys into notions about women not ever meaning what they say or a woman’s “no” not really meaning “no” because apparently this would fly right over your head.)

              My mother used to use that quote all the time, whoever she was talking about. I suppose you think she was a sexist idiot? No, she just liked using quotes. Calm down, woman!

        • Vicky32 11.1.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 5:23 pm

          And of course “the bloggers doth protest too much, methinks” wouldn’t have made exactly the same point without the dogwhistle to misogyny. Oh wait, I forgot, we live in a vacuum and questioning other men’s masculinity using woman-related language isn’t really tragically common in our political discourse.

          Oh come on! He’s explained, and I think you’re being absurd QoT. There’s nothing misogynistic about his nod to Shakespeare! You’re making the rest of us (women, and feminists) look like shrikes with no sense of proportion…

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2
        4 October 2011 at 12:43 pm

        And how many people do you think have actually read Hamlet well enough to realise that?

    • vto 11.2
      3 October 2011 at 10:26 pm

      That’s right QoT, I know what you mean. We white middle class males get batted all the time with not just the derogratory and sexist overtones of a similar such cry in our own particular context but also all the racism and class ridicule too. Great aint it. And from our own types at times too no less – that alone tells you how ingrained it is.

  12. John 12
    3 October 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Well to be honest we are in a pattern of politics that means labour and national swap the govt seats every 6 to 9 years, basically because the swinging voter takes that time to realise national does nothing but reward its donors.

    I like Fentons guts, the mad butcher is a former butcher, longtime adman who trades on his street credentials, hanging out with john key is a remarkable thing for him to do and she remarked.

    I know we all want nice, smiley politics because who really wants this bitter shit but we don’t have them, we haven’t had them for a long time and Fenton made a sensible point. I’ve met Leitch and he’s nice but full of shit, well the day we met him he was.

    Fenton is only front page material because the media wanted some tears, she made a valid point but we have a media who just don’t give a fuck.

  13. John 13
    3 October 2011 at 9:36 pm

    “and the Labour Party’s total ineptness when it comes to communications has become the story.”

    Yeh and moronically talking about your cat MoonBeam while a major credit rating agency publicly dumps on your time in office is the way to go. Jesus, is the great new future. Kids get that Australian job sorted pronto.

    It’s just a tired, well monied, smothered political forum, smothered by a wealthy party and its fat media buddies. Labour never get a fair shot in the press, it’s amazing they ever win office really, they only win when National can’t lie anymore because the bullshit is starting to stink.Let’s be honest.

    • mickysavage 13.1
      3 October 2011 at 9:42 pm

      Aye John and the right wing are really good at bringing it up and regurgitating it and regurgitating it and regurgitating it …
      I think that Irish and Zetetic are suggesting that if this happens we all back the F off and talk about important things like climate change or credit rating downgrades or unemployment.
      As soon as we engage with the right on issues like this it is like wrestling like a pig in mud, we are no good at it and they love it ….

    • SHG 13.2
      3 October 2011 at 10:34 pm

      moronically talking about your cat MoonBeam while a major credit rating agency publicly dumps on your time in office is the way to go

      It is when we’re less than two months out from an election and Key is legally forbidden from talking about anything that might make people more or less likely to vote a certain way or even to vote at all. Because National is not criminally inept at communications, Key would have been made aware of the restrictions under which he had to operate.

      • IrishBill 13.2.1
        3 October 2011 at 10:41 pm

        But he still made political comment. Unlawfully. You see SHG, that’s the hook (if I may uses a comms word) for me right there.

        • SHG 13.2.1.1
          3 October 2011 at 10:43 pm

          Well, he either made political comment or he spoke of nothing important. I don’t know, I haven’t heard the broadcast. But both things can’t be true at the same time, and Key is being criticised on this page for both.

          • IrishBill 13.2.1.1.1
            3 October 2011 at 10:45 pm

            Oh no. People on a blog expressing different opinions. Whatever next?

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 13.2.1.1.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 3:47 pm

              You should try to put a stop to that, IB.

          • felix 13.2.1.1.2
            4 October 2011 at 11:49 am

            Well, he either made political comment or he spoke of nothing important. … But both things can’t be true at the same time

            Apparently you haven’t heard Key speak before.

          • thejackal 13.2.1.1.3
            4 October 2011 at 8:45 pm

            SHG

            Well, he either made political comment or he spoke of nothing important. But both things can’t be true at the same time.

            Key made political comments that as usual were not very important. The thing here is that he made stupid political comments knowing he should not have been goofing off on a radio show… He should have been addressing the downgrades appropriately. Instead we get contradictions and even more muddling. What a turkey baster!

      • Puddleglum 13.2.2
        4 October 2011 at 12:04 pm

        SHG, would you concede that Key’s appearance on Radio Live was part of his election strategy? If not, why not?

  14. John 14
    3 October 2011 at 10:17 pm

    “As soon as we engage with the right on issues like this it is like wrestling like a pig in mud, we are no good at it and they love it ….”

    To not defend Fenton is the greater evil in the long run. Leitches o.t.t defence of a poor hating leader is hard to take when you are said community.He went out of his way to get in the spotlight. I don’t want any butchers trying to fuck up the poor.

    What kind of country are we developing, strangled by tabliod media and quite nasty, and intentioned rightwing online idealogues who amazingly get to set headlines, rather than get dealt to by a free media for their outright lies and thin propaganda.

    Everything is upside down, the poor created the recession according to these rightwing propagandists.

    Fentons thoughts.That’s what I thought when i saw leitch do that. We are in a recession, a long one and the poor are taking the punches, this is a genuinely poor citizen writing. Fenton said what i was thinking. Sorry for being so poor, I know I am.

  15. Brett Dale 15
    3 October 2011 at 10:26 pm

    It was about a politician attacking someone who didn’t support her party, and the person she attacked is someone who has done so much for the community, and that is why some people who are big league fans like me werent happy.

    • felix 15.1
      3 October 2011 at 10:38 pm

      Are you ever really happy though Brett?

      • Brett Dale 15.1.1
        3 October 2011 at 10:42 pm

        I was happy with the warriors effort last night, even though they didn’t win. Maybe if the cards can improve from 1-3, (but they have to fix their offensive line) I will be very happy.

  16. newsense 16
    3 October 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Dissent during the RWC emboldens the terrorists

  17. John 17
    3 October 2011 at 10:42 pm

    “It was about a politician attacking someone who didn’t support her party, and the person she attacked is someone who has done so much for the community, and that is why some people who are big league fans like me werent happy.”

    and some people think you would be wise to measure your happiness on other factors.To support National for about 45% of the population is a very poor decision, alarmingly poor because it drags their lives backwards.

    Now reality time, Peter Leitch has been massively rewarded for his work well beyond the dreams of any average citizen. I’m sick of charity shit, charity is an official part of most marketing now, tax breaks and all.

    Also local commerce has been massively over rewarding to businessman like Peter for way too long and his new love affair with our creepy new york banker makes him look insincere at the least. If stacey jones did the same thing i would be disappointed given his past labour endorsements.

    I aint going to his shops, well , to be fair, they aren’t his shops actually. . By the way I love those new human sandwichboard jobs the mad butcher shops are creating for school leavers, so 1930’s.

    • The Voice of Reason 17.1
      3 October 2011 at 10:49 pm

      Actually, Stacey Jones is a paid spokestool for a licensed loanshark operation called Instant Poverty (or something similar). His ripping off of league fans is much more direct than anything Leitch has done.

  18. John 18
    3 October 2011 at 10:56 pm

    “Because National is not criminally inept at communications.”

    Well why go on the radio? Don’t fucking lie to me man, we have the National Party for that,they are manipulating communication which is bad for a democracy.

    On the topic of real news SHG , that downgrade is a shocking thumbs down to his monetary skills, shocking..you know that bro, it just hurts to admit it. C’mon be honest, how can you spin that????
    There is no way that is not BAD NEWS FOR JOHN KEY, of course wall street bankers fucked the world economy up so badly its still limping so it’s NO SURPRISE but c;mon SHG, forget the mad butchers tears for a second and get real, WHAT A FUCK UP!!!!!!!

    • SHG 18.1
      4 October 2011 at 12:12 am

      I’m not disagreeing with you. The downgrade is a kick in the guts for the whole country just when we don’t need it. But there will hardly be any discussion of the downgrade because everyone’s too busy facepalming over Labour’s media incompetence.

      Communications is a fine art and Labour is just really really bad at it. Labour is giving National a free ride, a blank cheque, a get-out-of-jail-free card on every issue. Because it’s fucking useless at communicating.

      Imagine a world in which this happened:

      Labour’s comms team reminds the leadership group that the Warriors are playing in the NRL Grand Final and thus everything and everybody remotely connected with rugby league has to have nothing but feelgood stories attached to it. For the benefit of the Labour caucus members who don’t follow rugby league the comms team circulates a list of key rugby league personalities, corporate sponsors, and high-profile supporters. Labour leadership makes it clear: feelgood stories only.

      Labour’s comms team marks on its calendar the week in which the ratings agencies are expected to release their credit ratings for NZ and reminds the leadership group. Knowing that the economy ain’t looking so hot and relishing the thought of beating the National Govt over the head with this, the Labour leadership issues a clear directive to all party operatives: no fuckups that week. No signs that are too big, no hoardings up too early, no social media own goals, no braindead comments on the Internet that will be recorded and reproduced for ever. Nothing to distract the media from the ratings downgrade and the fingers that will then point at the government.

      I know, fantasy right? Like Labour would ever have its shit together enough to handle its communications that professionally.

      • John 18.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 12:35 am

        I’m on to it. Maybe Labour should get a cat too, call it moonbeam too and drivel on about it at the exact time the country sinks into more financial ruin,, “hi my name is john and my badge says prime minister…grin, drivel, I’m a banker and now a wellknown dickhead who loves da foto ops more than the job. You don’t want professionalism You want trivia and warm winks from balding men who look just like you!!

        Professionalism?

        Or maybe the media could be “professional” themseves and actually do some research and homework on the real issues facing 2011 n.z. Maybe stop asking overweight lonley parasititical National little sad boy bloggers for copy that the womans weekly would pass up on and actually contribute something to the freedom of press and ideas so badly needed now. Poor old Duncan , Guy and Sean might have to do some work though, or we could just ignore them like everyone does now. Put them on the weather, they can’t fuck that up or actually make them work for a while in a factory.

        I know asking too much of the “it’s all about” ME -dia, but actually glad you see the light on nationals bad economics though.Remember two ticks for labour, don’t believe the hype, don’t fall for the flashing lights, look for policy that actually has a grounding in reality and not written on the back of a Richmans napkin. Vote for something that can last.

        • SHG 18.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 1:01 am

          No. Labour needs to get its shit together. Too late now, the election is lost, but maybe there’s hope for the next one. Someone needs to put his or her hand up and say “ok kiddies, playtime’s over, grownups are running the party now”.

          That means no leaders spontaneously ruling out working with a potentially vital MMP partner without consulting caucus (see: Goff and Harawira).

          No spokespersons on IT and Telecommunications dizzily blathering on about TEH INTERWEBS like a teenager who’s just discovered Bebo. (see: Curran, every week or so)

          No running the party webserver like you have NFI about anything. (see: whoever was responsible)

          No attacking an academic commentator on the left for being part of a conspiracy against Labour and taking secret payments from Bill English (see: Mallard on Edwards)

          No chipping in that it’s part of a conspiracy between the Right and the “non-Labour left” (see: Curran)

          No bitching that Labour is being “white-anted” by the Greens, who are stealing left voters that belong to Labour by Divine Right. (Curran, again)

          No personal attacks and crazy yes-but-no-but calls for boycotts of independent stores run by hardworking franchisees because of something said by the country’s biggest Warriors fan and a hero among the South Auckland community – hell, the whole country. (see: Fenton, Wall)

          etc etc etc.

          Right now Labour’s public perception is something like that of an unpredictable rabid animal that needs to be shot before it hurts someone else. And every single thing it does reinforces that perception because it’s fucking useless at communicating.

          • The Baron 18.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 7:08 am

            It’s for these reasons that I have a weird obsession with Clare Curran that goes well beyond the amount I think about Darien (like, who is she anyway? Around all last term and did all of sweet fuck all as far as I can tell. Didn’t give a toss then; don’t give a toss now).
            But Curran – oh Curran, she is pure comedy gold. Can we have a post on her please Irish so we can all share stories of our favourite CC cock ups?

            • IrishBill 18.1.1.1.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 7:20 am

              You do realise what a loser you sound like, right?

              • The Baron …
                4 October 2011 at 10:04 am

                But it wasn’t me that posted what amounts to “the right tease Darien cos they like her so much teeheehee” now was it… Just the sort of cut throat, deep thinking I’ve come to expect from you, Irish.

          • mickysavage 18.1.1.1.2
            4 October 2011 at 8:21 am

            SHG

            Thank you for your obviously heart felt comments.  Obviously you have the interests of the Labour Party at heart and I can see that you want to become a member and contribute to the resurgence of a proud Party.

            Drop me a line with your address and I will send you  a membership form.

            /Sarc

            I read your list and I thought “what the?”.  Nothing about child poverty, peak oil, climate change, unemployment, the aging population … 

            Just a whole lot of troll lines on the odd stray word uttered during the past three years.  Did you do a cut and paste from the CT site?

            • John 18.1.1.1.2.1
              4 October 2011 at 8:34 am

              Irish Bill and Mickey Savage , great points. It’s encouraging to have real political discussion and not thin, pointless trivia thrown at you. Why are the left the only faction that can actually focus on real living conditions and not become pointlessly obsessed with what colour tie a candidate should wear.The country is full of fretful sleepers , pathilogically waiting to stamp on those whose bank accounts are not sufficient enough to rid them off the horrible glare of a state run by a selfish and cold rightwing. Money sucks more than ever.

            • SHG 18.1.1.1.2.2
              4 October 2011 at 11:44 am

              The topic at hand was Labour’s incompetence in communicating with the public, not its policies. Kinda figured that was obvious.

              Here’s an extreme invented example of what Labour does, time after time:

              The Labour Party today announced a radical overhaul of its family policy, extending free health care, free early childhood education, and paid parental leave for working parents. “We really have to do something about the fact that stupid hetero c*nts can’t keep their legs closed,” announced a Labour spokesperson.

              Great policy. Terrible communication.

              Poll after poll, the numbers come back showing that the general public really likes Labour policies, it just won’t vote for Labour. Why? Because Labour is fucking useless at communicating.

              • Daveo …
                4 October 2011 at 11:50 am

                You know, I used to work in a newsroom and you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. Thanks for playing.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1.1.1.3
            4 October 2011 at 8:58 am

            It’s all about the PR, see. These witless RWNJ’s laud National for being ‘on message’, completely castrated of their real feelings or opinions, and they think that’s a good thing. Truly pathetic.

          • Vicky32 18.1.1.1.4
            4 October 2011 at 5:39 pm

            No personal attacks and crazy yes-but-no-but calls for boycotts of independent stores (sic)

            If you mean Fenton, she didn’t call for a boycott, idiot.

  19. John 19
    3 October 2011 at 11:02 pm

    “Actually, Stacey Jones is a paid spokestool for a licensed loanshark operation called Instant Poverty (or something similar). His ripping off of league fans is much more direct than anything Leitch has done.”

    I agree it would be nice to have banks that would lend the poor money but that doesn’t happen.

    Actually i tried to loan off them but got turned down. Stacey and Peter are allowed to earn money bro, that’s the marketplace, you probably never have to go to IF.
    …. but yes you are right we need far better deals for the poor , its nice to have you on board,

    • IrishBill 20.1
      4 October 2011 at 7:22 am

      Ah yes, the guy who’s in charge of the country. Versus an opposition backbencher. I’d suggest you take a wee reality check son.

      • Nick C 20.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 4:05 pm

        Which would be fine, if you were focused on how he was running the country. I selected those posts out of the hundreds on John Key because they are basically just attempts at character assassination.

        • IrishBill 20.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 5:58 pm

          Whatever.

        • thejackal 20.1.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 9:08 pm

          Character assassination? A few excerpts from your links Nick C:

          The new media-trained image isn’t completely infallible, however. Just before the last election, in November 2008, Key was heard to yell at a work rights activist who was heckling him, shouting ‘the truth is you’re an idiot!’

          He refused to say what his position was on the 1981 Springbok Tour, saying “oh, I can’t even remember … 1981, I was 20 … ah … I don’t really know. I didn’t really have a strong feeling on it at the time. Look, it’s such a long time ago.”

          Key has set New Zealand on a path of significant right-wing economic reform without most people even being aware of it. If he wins the next election in 2011 his softly-softly approach will take the country further and further down that road.

          Our PM is also a marvel of modern physics with any issue he manages to appear to be on both sides of the fence at the same time. He is both for and against state asset sales and Maori advancement, and he makes the underclass’ his top priority while giving most of the money for tax cuts to the wealthy.

          Giving away the position of Maori Affairs minister and a few associate positions wasn’t too much of a hardship. Neither was promising to look at’ the Foreshore and Seabed legislation, given that National didn’t like it either (though for different reasons).

          To sack a minister of the Crown without any explanation to the people that he and the minister in question were supposed to serve does not conform to the high standards of honesty and transparency Key promised his Government would hold themselves to.

          Looks like John Key has assassinated his own character to me.

  21. Pete George 21
    4 October 2011 at 8:09 am

    When the whole world’s against you (well, Russell too)…

    … at a time when Phil Goff continues to struggle not to suck all the charisma out of any room he’s in, a Facebook blurt that puts the party on the wrong side of Warriors Fan No. 1 was spectacularly unhelpful to Labour. Idiotic comments at The Standard, only more so.

    Such sentiments are widely – if somewhat lazily – accepted in the political blogosphere as proof of Labour’s “arrogance”. But Labour doesn’t have a lot to be arrogant about at the moment. What you’re hearing there is grief, anger and frustration.

    The challenge is to try and turn frustration into positive energy.

    • mickysavage 21.1
      4 October 2011 at 8:18 am

      How is United Future’s polling Pete?  Off 0% yet?  So why should Labour take advice from you?

      • Pete George 21.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 8:48 am

        If UF doesn’t get coverage and traction then I’d at least like to see a competent opposition in the next parliament other then the Greens.

        • mickysavage 21.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 8:54 am

          So Pete why should Labour listen to you, a senior operative whose amount of traction with the electorate is approximately, give or take a bit and take into account the margin of error, 0%?

          • Pete George 21.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 9:17 am

            I’m aware that Labour isn’t a listening sort of party these days so I don’t expect them to listen to me. I’m just one ex voter.

            It’s Labour’s choice if they don’t think it’s important to consider why their support has mostly pissed of or is pissed off.

        • The Voice of Reason 21.1.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 9:17 am

          How much traction are UF getting with you, Pete? Have you decided whether the party you represent are worth voting for yet?
           
          Just as an aside, I still find it funny that a party that attracts the support of more than a quarter of eligible Kiwis in their poorest polling results can get lectured to by members of parties who rarely exceed single figure support on their best days.

          • Pete George 21.1.1.2.1
            4 October 2011 at 9:23 am

            You’re getting a bit off topic – what do you think of the weird obsession with Fenton/Presland style politics?

            Just as an aside, I don’t think it’s funny that 2% for UF would be a success but 20% for Labour would be a massive failure.

            • Tiger Mountain 21.1.1.2.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 9:31 am

              Well tory Pete, one TV poll had UF at zero point zero (0.0) which is something of a classic result, maybe the pollsters are using some secret quantum mechanics technique?

            • mickysavage 21.1.1.2.1.2
              4 October 2011 at 9:32 am

              Um Pete
               
              I am pointing out that your “helpful advice” is anything but and you are motivated by attack politics.  I am also pointing out that the competence of your party to attract support is very poor. 
               
              Yet you criticise Darien for engaging in attack politics and you then attack me?  Do you know what hypocricy is?
               
              Why don’t you point out one, just one post anywhere where I have attacked Leitch.

    • John 21.2
      4 October 2011 at 8:44 am

      “They don’t care about the tribal class traitor rhetoric because the you’ve attacked their tribe.”

      Who the fuck are they? Do you really think the poor are that stupid to support a millionaire who seems to have no knowledge of what they are going through at the moment. The mean spirited tribe of the national party and its invasion into the lives of the poor has been with us forever , the poor just arrange themselves around whoever can stop these fucking social and economic fascists from totally controlling their lives .

      The poor fucking care about poverty, if you were poor you’d give a fuck too.

  22. Anthony 22
    4 October 2011 at 8:27 am

    Some of you guys just don’t get it… It’s not about freedom of speech, or being an attack poodle or whatever.

    It’s about attacking somebody that people in your key electorates actually really like, someone they like not through a fawning view from afar, but because this person is personally visible in their communities – They don’t care about the tribal class traitor rhetoric because the you’ve attacked their tribe.

    It was just a really, really politically stupid thing to say.

    • mickysavage 22.1
      4 October 2011 at 8:33 am

      There has been absolutely no perspective here.  We are talking about a couple of stray words on a Facebook page.  This has been beaten up out of all proportion by some RWNJs and the rest then hoe in and say that the left are failing because they caused the massive beat up.

      This is so irrational.  And so predictable. 

      • The Baron 22.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 10:09 am

        … and so much fun, cos political spastics like you walk into it full of spit and vinegar every single time.

        • bbfloyd 22.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 1:47 pm

          it’s been such a long time since iv’e heard the term “spastic” used as a political debating tool… in fact, the last time i heard it, the words were coming out of the mouth of a rather spoiled and obnoxious primary school boys mouth, along with generous amounts of spittle, after he had been informed that he had to be fair to his classmates, and give back some of the crayons he had hoarded…..

          you aren’t that boy all grown up are you baron? because if you are, then you obviously havn’t learnt a thing…. if you aren’t, then it suggests you have issues with communicating in an adult setting…….either way, you are irrelevant, and less than mature…

          i’m not surprised that your gang is happy to stand up for a guy who is so thick that he allows advertising that exposes issues of impotence(you can’t beat the mad butchers meat)… now we know that impotence is a serious issue for those who suffer from it, but to use it to sell “meat” is a bit limp, to say the least…

          so this is the kind of person who endorses old pink eyes for pm? so the fact that key is a magnet for the bigoted, racist, uninformed “underclass” is a great thing to the rest of your cheerleading squad is what is the real, and unpleasant reality for the rest of us….

          eeeeeewwwww!!!

        • Vicky32 22.1.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 5:47 pm

          and so much fun, cos political spastics like you walk into it full of spit and vinegar every single time.

          Using ‘spastic’ as an insult is disgusting. Also, juvenile. You ought to be very ashamed TB.

      • Deb 22.1.2
        4 October 2011 at 10:11 am

        What is irrational in my books is to continue to give last week’s negative story legs the week after.
        Leave it alone and it dies a natural death – surely

      • gareth 22.1.3
        4 October 2011 at 12:38 pm

        and that in a nutshell is why labour mp’s need to be so careful in what they put in public….

        Any tiny slip up and the right leaning media hoe in to create a shit storm, masking the real issues.
        It is irrational, it is predictable and it is biased.

  23. Anthony 23
    4 October 2011 at 8:43 am

    I think you underestimate how many people it pissed off though once it got coverage.

    • John 23.1
      4 October 2011 at 8:53 am

      How dare the poor have a spokesman? They haven’t earned it eh Anthony. Stop talking out of your arse , there is no reliable info about who was pisssed off and who wasn’t.

      A well heeled man (maybe innocently) spat on the folks who put him where he is, now that pisses you off, 45% of the nation are disgusted by another head in the sand Nat leader , especially one who was bought up with the generosity of the state, as a child given the best of state housing and education and now denies that to other New Zealand children 40 years later, what a selfish fuck.

      you piss me off anthony and so does the ignorance of Peter Leitch. Politicains need to speak up, this stupid environment of media beat up just keeps poverty undiscussed for another year. Fuck off John Key , go back to New York and repair the mess you helped create.

      • jem 23.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 9:25 am

        “45% of the nation are disgusted by another head in the sand Nat leader ”

        hahaha Well why not continue that line of thought ;

        “70% of the nation are disgusted by another head in the sand Labourt leader”

  24. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 24
    4 October 2011 at 8:53 am

    It is not the (minimal) harm caused by what she said. It is what it shows about Labour’s thinking. The public sees them as the new nasty party.

    You need no more evidence for this than the polling which suggests that the public prefer Labour’s policies but would still not vote for them.

  25. jem 25
    4 October 2011 at 9:01 am

    It has NOTHING to do with Left or Right. Its to do with a truly great New Zealander who has given countless time and money to the less fortunate, being attacked by vermin who hasn’t even come close to contributing to this country, and its people, as much as he has.

    That’s it, nothing more, nothing less.

    Once again the left just don’t get it.

    • John 25.1
      4 October 2011 at 9:05 am

      Oh Jem, what a lovely world you must live in.

      • jem 25.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 9:14 am

        Well Im sorry John, but I don’t care who you are, left or right, you just don’t attack one of our beloved. Especially when he didnt actually do anything other than invite the PM to a rugby game.

        He is not a traitor, he is someone for all NZ’ers to be proud of. Left and Right

        And it just seems that , to the left, nothing is sacred.

        • John 25.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 9:22 am

          Jem, if you don’t understand politics maybe this site isn’t for you. The left by and large are backed by the poor, the right..by a well rewarded and irrational middleclass and big business uberclass.

          If in the U.K if someone like Sir Alex Ferguson started hanging out with David Cameron he would lose a lot of support, stop being in love with business and think how you and your vote can help the poor, it’s important you take a real interest in your country. Do you understand the hardships a recession brings to the poor, do you have any fucking idea.

          Charity is a joke that keeps Kerre woodham and the sky city events centre in good food and clothes, the mad butcher has a wonderful life, he calls radio stations and runs bbq’s , think about poverty, please.

          • jem 25.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 9:39 am

            John

            “Do you understand the hardships a recession brings to the poor, do you have any fucking idea.”

            I don’t think you do.
            Several of my friends are social workers in South Auckland…and let me tell you mate. The “poor” still seem able to afford a 50″ TV, and sleep in till middle on a Tues, while their 4year old kids scavenge the cupboards for scraps!!!

            As usual you “defenders of the poor” have no idea whats actually happening out their on the streets, so you don’t actually know how to help them.
            But hey, what do I know about politics, I’m just someone down on the street experiencing what you can only talk about.

            • The Voice of Reason 25.1.1.1.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 9:52 am

              Several of your friends are social workers in South Auckland, eh? Strangely narrow social circle you have, jem and how odd that they would all have the same anecdote to tell. Nah, far more likely that you are a lying Tory troll whose only experience of South Auckland is driving through it on the way to the bach on holiday weekends.

              • jem …
                4 October 2011 at 10:01 am

                I love how the left immediately pull that card. By your reckoning… half this country must own batches. But alas , no, I never have and neither has anyone in my family.
                I live in South Auckland, drive a $500 car, have 4 kids, single income family.

                One could almost say, I’m the poster Labour supporter…yet no, like many others i got fed up with them, as they lost their roots and have no idea who the working class are anymore.

                But hey…good luck with your next twist of the truth.

                • The Voice of Reason …
                  4 October 2011 at 10:22 am

                  4 kids, single income family. I take it your partner earns the big bucks while you loll about in front of the 50 inch telly and your 4 year old looks for food scraps in the kitchen.
                   
                  Mind you, with one income and four kids, you must be loving Labour’s Working for Families top up. And Labour’s free childcare hours. And Labour’s cheap doctor’s visits etc etc.
                   
                  Lying Tory Troll.

                  • felix …
                    4 October 2011 at 10:32 am

                    “…loll about…”

                    I think you mean lol about. ♪ Trololololol lololol lololol…♫

                  • jem …
                    4 October 2011 at 10:36 am

                    Ah yes, the insults and hostility…so “left”, you could almost be a Labour MP…

                    I actually work the 40hr week, while my wife looks after the kids at home. no 50″ telly though sorry.

                    And yes, I do enjoy the WFF , free child care etc… they have greatly helped my family survive. I appreciate it immensely… my family would be “up the creek..” without it.

                    Any more mud to sling? 🙂

            • felix 25.1.1.1.1.2
              4 October 2011 at 9:53 am

              That’s so adorable.

              • jem …
                4 October 2011 at 10:03 am

                thanks mate ,I am to please 🙂

                • mik e …
                  5 October 2011 at 11:32 pm

                  Ive never been able to claim wff because we are always just above the cut off but I support the policy because without wff many families would be in dire straits . The middle class has been squeezed ever since the rogernomes took control!

        • Vicky32 25.1.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 5:58 pm

          And it just seems that , to the left, nothing is sacred.

          By you, the Mad Butcher is sacred?

    • KJT 25.2
      4 October 2011 at 10:24 am

      Ask his staff what they really think of him.

  26. JS 26
    4 October 2011 at 9:40 am

    The MB is certainly an enemy of vegetarians. But he’s just one of many NZers to have made his fortune and public profile out of the exploitation and death of millions of animals. That is nothing to be proud of or celebrate.

    • The Voice of Reason 26.1
      4 October 2011 at 9:59 am

      The only time I ever met Leitch was while we were both stuck at the traffic lights in Greenlane about twenty years ago. My front seat passenger knew him through league and wound down the window for a chat while we waited for the lights to change. After being introduced I suggested he should intoduce a range of vege sausages. He laughed at me then, but I note they sell them now. Funny old world, etc …

  27. davidc 27
    4 October 2011 at 9:46 am

    I agree with Jem.

    The Nats couldnt have scripted this own goal better.

    On the eve of NZ leagues biggest day in 10 years a Labour Party MP attacks the loudest and most loyal league supporter, a man with vast public profile and following, league being the game of inner city poor and inner city poor being the LP traditional voter base esp Auckland where the Warriors are based.

    Leitch is of course the current patron of the NZRL, a spot that he took when a certian ex PM left for NewYork.

  28. Bob Stanforth 28
    4 October 2011 at 10:34 am

    The rights obsession? Really?

    And yet you continue to post this shit about it? But the right is obsessed?

    I suspect the right is thankful – and wishes that such stupidity long continues. You complain regularly that the ‘left’ cant catch a break from the MSM. And yet this shit happens, and you expect to be taken seriously? I lol’d 🙂

  29. randal 29
    4 October 2011 at 10:41 am

    I wonder how fat boy farrar, dumbell slater and big red hooton are today? I believe they have just had a coniption fit?

  30. J Mex 30
    4 October 2011 at 11:43 am

    If I were a Left supporter, I would be saying this:

    Please, please, please pick your fucking targets –

    Don’t have a go at Peter Jackson/Lord of the Rings. NZ loves him/it
    Don’t have a go at the mad butcher on the eve of the Warriors final. NZ loves him/them
    Stop having a go at John Key. NZ loves him

    You have (as someone else put it here), a fucking target rich environment in National (outside of John Key). Blast away at them as NZers generally loath them.

    But no, I expect someone in Labour is training their sights on Dan Carter or the memory of Sir Ed right now.

    Don’t blame the media (right wing attack dogs) if you offer them up a story that the public will love to read.

    • Daveo 30.1
      4 October 2011 at 11:46 am

      If I were on the right I’d be saying “If I were a left supporter…”

      And nobody in their right minds would be pay any attention to the the drivel I followed that statement with. That is all.

      • J Mex 30.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 11:50 am

        Or, you could keep up your existing strategy, of having a go at NZ icons.

        Seems to be working well for you all.

        • felix 30.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 11:57 am

          Gee I wonder why righties and nats want everyone to leave Britney alone? Could it be because he’s the only chance they have of being elected?? Thanks for the concern.

          Cute of you to list Key as an icon in the same breath as the All Blacks and Ed Hillary btw.

          • J Mex 30.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 12:14 pm

            Correct. He is National’s superstar player. He appears to be teflon coated.

            To use a rugby analogy You keep trying to tackle him and he keeps fending you of effortlessly. The rest of his team is huffing and puffing around the field, (or sitting down in the middle of the paddock).

            Meanwhile, Team Labour gets into a huddle…

            “Any ideas?”
            “I’ve got one – Let’s tackle key…”
            “Brilliant!”

          • Anthony 30.1.1.1.2
            4 October 2011 at 12:21 pm

            Come on, you know that is the end goal of Key’s media managed public persona. Everything he does is used to place him there or in proximity to that idea of kiwi icon

            It’s apparently clear that he’s the wrong target as he will never do anything to personally draw flack (he has a bunch of lackeys for that), that’s the whole point of a managerial strategy – shit flows down hill. By the time it starts piling up to stick to him he’ll be well on his way to Hawaii.

      • jem 30.1.2
        4 October 2011 at 11:59 am

        Daveco
        Brilliantly said mate… just the reason the left are so disliked by the General public… Arrogant To The Last

        • One Anonymous Bloke 30.1.2.1
          4 October 2011 at 12:07 pm

          Yet another delusional RWNJ thinks they speak for ‘the General(sic) public’, and has the utter lack of self-awareness to describe others as “Arrogant.”

  31. randal 31
    4 October 2011 at 1:21 pm

    its typical of the right wing sickos to assert that everything they stand for is beyond criticism. anyway winston churchill was summariuly dismissed at the first election after world war two and key is about to go the same way. think: the harder they come the harder they fall.

    • SarSar 31.1
      4 October 2011 at 2:12 pm

      You seem to be saying that Darien Fenton must be without criticism there. Pot black? She can say what she likes and people can rebutt it, which is what they are doing.

      [lprent: We allow a lot of discussion here (which is what I think that you meant before putting down the wrong word).

      Which is why I’ve had to put up with the rather turgid and inane remarks for the last few days whilst moderating. The moderators concentrate on lousy behavior rather than opinion unless that opinion turns to stupid repetitive troll discussions that we can’t stand reading anymore. Then I believe in being evil.. ]

  32. randal 32
    4 October 2011 at 1:23 pm

    just rememebr that winston churchill was summarily dumped at the end of wwii and the same thing is going to happen to key in 6 weeks time.

    • SarSar 32.1
      4 October 2011 at 2:14 pm

      Yes, seems to be the way the polls are going. Most popular PM ever and all. Definitely can see the merit in your comments there.

    • J Mex 32.2
      4 October 2011 at 2:23 pm

      Want to put some money on it Randal?

      Didn’t think so.

    • sthnjeff 32.3
      4 October 2011 at 2:34 pm

      That has to be the most riddiculous statement written in a long time

      [lprent: Stop changing pseudonyms. It is irritating having to release them from first time moderation. Eventually I give up and start filing them in spam as troll fill. ]

  33. mickysavage 33
    4 October 2011 at 1:44 pm

    You know what is really funny with this post?
     
    The title is “The Right’s weird obsession with Darien Fenton”.
     
    We are now up to 140 comments.
     
    Nuff said?
     

    • J Mex 33.1
      4 October 2011 at 1:55 pm

      Micky, I think you’d find as many comments if it was called – “The right’s weird obsession with Labour’s massive own goals”.

      And I am certain you could swap Left/Right & Labour/National in that title and it would still hold true.

      As an example, you could have just as easily written a post last election called “The Left’s weird obsession with Pansy Wong”

      Labour supporter: ‘[Shock]OMG, Pansy Wong’s a nazi!’

      National supporter: ‘The left only hate her cos she’s so amazing!!!’

      • felix 33.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 2:39 pm

        Yeah, you could.

        Of course first you’d have find a bunch of left-wing bloggers, labour party spin doctors & radio commenters etc all going mental over some off-handed remark Pansy made on facebook about a celebrity butcher or something equally inane.

        But assuming you could, then yeah, you could definitely swap the names out.

        • J Mex 33.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 3:08 pm

          Yes. Because one can never generalise. Ever.

          Two situations need to be identical before you can compare them.

          (Except the people’s names apparently)

          • felix 33.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 3:24 pm

            If you read all the way to the end of the second sentence (hard work, I know) you’ll find the words “or something equally inane”.

            Hth.

        • higherstandard 33.1.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 3:24 pm

          Lockwood smith’s “little hands” – (feck sounds like a porno) ?
          – not a politician but remember the hand wringing and frothing over Paul Henry, Hone, Key’s ‘ “we’d love to see wages drop ?” etc etc etc people will wank on about anything to pass the time.

          • felix 33.1.1.2.1
            4 October 2011 at 3:34 pm

            Eh?

            Key and Smith talking about wage levels, immigration and employment? Those are serious matters they’re discussing and of course they’ll be called to account for what they say. Why wouldn’t they?

            How’s that even comparable?

            • higherstandard 33.1.1.2.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 3:39 pm

              Yes quite right they were at least discussing something serious whereas Darien was just spouting vitriol against a respected member of the community.

              • felix …
                4 October 2011 at 3:52 pm

                So no relevant examples then?

                (Obviously I’m referring to examples of a Nat politicians saying something trivial about a celeb and the whole left wing pr machine going fucking retarded over it, rather than an example of whatever it is you’re trying to change the subject to).

                  • felix …
                    4 October 2011 at 4:35 pm

                    Relevance?

                    Remember I am quite thick so you’ll need to spell out what the parallel is.

                    • J Mex …
                      4 October 2011 at 5:16 pm

                      Let me spell it out for you, Felix.

                      Micky Savage seems to think that the “right” are obsessed with Darien Fenton. They aren’t. They are obsessed with taking advantage of opportunities to hammer their opposition (that is LABOUR), when they screw up.

                      I am sure that everyone here can agree that Darian’s facebook comments were a screw up. Right?

                      O.K. The “left” are just as obsessed when National screw up. An example? Melissa Lee in the Mt Albert by-election. She said that the motorway would bring criminals in from South Auckland to Mt Albert. This was a stupid thing to say. Did the “left” go “Meh. She said something stupid” ? No, they went batshit crazy about Melissa Lee being a racist etc.

                      Were they obsessed with Melissa Lee personally? Not at all. They just wanted to land as many hits as possible and make the opposition pay for their MP’s mistake in the hope that it helps their side.

                      Is that spelt out enough for you?

                    • felix …
                      4 October 2011 at 5:24 pm

                      “I am sure that everyone here can agree that Darian’s facebook comments were a screw up. Right?”

                      No, just a handful of RWNJs working for the National Party. No one else gives a shit and that’s kinda the point.

                    • J Mex …
                      4 October 2011 at 5:39 pm

                      If it wasn’t a mistake. Why did she apologise? Why did she say “I’ve had another look at what I said and reckon I went too far.”

                      Is that not a mistake?

                      Or, are you saying that all the mean RWNJ’s made her apologise and she didn’t need to?

                      Let’s see if we can get anyone else here saying that Darien’s attacks on Sir Peter Leitch were not a screw up.

                      IrishBill: You sound like Matthew Hooton. Take a couple of deep breaths and settle down – you’ll last longer here that way.

                    • felix …
                      4 October 2011 at 5:49 pm

                      Why should I give a fuck why she apologised? Maybe she thought she’d hurt someone’s feelings. I don’t know, who did she apologise to? You? David Farrar?

                      Like I said, I couldn’t give a shit and neither I suspect could the vast majority of sentient beings.

                    • J Mex …
                      4 October 2011 at 5:58 pm

                      It is insane that you don’t think that was a mistake.

                      Either on a principled level, or a political level.

                      On the principled level, do you think that it is o.k for M.P’s to encourage others to withhold goods, services or trade from others based on their political beliefs? Do you think it’s appropriate for National M.P’s to encourage employers not to employ Labour supporters?

                      On the political level, do you think that Fenton had a net gain or net loss of votes from her comments, which were made in a public domain, and hightly likely to get picked up on?

                      You know she made a mistake. You are just being obtuse.

                    • felix …
                      4 October 2011 at 6:16 pm

                      I’ll thank you not to tell me what I think, especially after I’ve been so open and forthright with you.

                    • J Mex …
                      4 October 2011 at 6:22 pm

                      I’ll simplify for you.

                      Do you think that Fenton’s comments, which were made in a public domain, and highly likely to get picked up, were more likely to result in a net gain or net loss of votes to Labour?

                    • felix …
                      4 October 2011 at 6:35 pm

                      Are you demanding that I see this non-event through your particular nut-job coloured lens, J Mex?

                      Gee it’s like you’re obsessed or something.

                      Found anything to support your original contention yet? Anyone called Pansy Wong a N@zi or whatever your fantasy was?

                    • J Mex …
                      4 October 2011 at 6:56 pm

                      Are you demanding that I see this non-event through your particular nut-job coloured lens, J Mex?

                      Not at all. I’m trying to find out your honestly held belief, but unfortunately you seem more interested in trying to dance on the head of a pin.

                      My contention is that Fenton’s comments were a mistake (in fact, I used the word ‘screw up)….

                      “I am sure that everyone here can agree that Darian’s facebook comments were a screw up. Right?”

                      You stated that it wasn’t a ‘screw up’…

                      No, just a handful of RWNJs working for the National Party.

                      So I’m trying to establish why you don’t think Fenton’s facebook comments weren’t a screw up (when this would even seem apparent to Fenton).

                      However, you don’t seem interested in actually putting forward why Fenton’s comments were not a mistake/screw up. You seem far more interested in frothing about RWNJ’s.

                      I would argue that you aren’t actually interested in debating things. You are as bad as the worst ‘cheerleaders’ at Kiwiblog.

                    • felix …
                      4 October 2011 at 7:20 pm

                      I’m actually very much interested in debating things, just not necessarily on your specific terms you control freak.

                      Found anything to back up your original contention yet or are you dead set on changing the subject to “felix says he doesn’t give a crap but I bet he does”?

    • lprent 33.2
      4 October 2011 at 3:02 pm

      Yep, I noticed that. Also that the comments were rather short as if many of the new commentators had problems stringing coherent sentences together.

      Ummm looks like the sewer and the blubber rendering plant have come to visit.. 😈

  34. SarSar 34
    4 October 2011 at 2:10 pm

    I think it’s cause the comments were perceived by many to be rude and nasty. That could be why the fuss. Just putting it (the obvious) out there.

    • mickysavage 34.1
      4 October 2011 at 8:23 pm

      Perceived by some, particularly Matthew Hooton, David Farrar, the slithery one and all of their followers.

      For the left well we want to concentrate on the big issues.  For the swinging voters I think they are still hooked into the rugby and league but I guess you want them to be remotely conscious of the shitstorm you guys are putting up and be slightly less likely to give Labour their vote.

      This is the purpose isn’t it?  Because the merits are way too tame and I cannot understand the angst. 

  35. Anne 35
    4 October 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Letter to NZ Herald dated Tues. 4th October

    Quote:
    Sir Peter Leitch needs to be more careful with his political opinions.

    He is a great philanthropist and a kind and decent New Zealander, I fully and unreservedly support his right to reasonably express his political views.

    But he must temper this with the responsibility he carries as a public figure and popular man of the people because his words can have a profound effect upon the public’s opinions and views, including voting patterns.

    This is why I agree, in principle at least, with Labour MP Darien Fenton, although perhaps not in her chosen method of expression, which could have been a little more diplomatic.

    Ms Fenton’s point that an endorsement by Sir Peter can influence a rather gullible voting public into believing John Key is a Prime Minister of the underclass is salient. He is not that.
    Unquote.
    (final emphasis mine)

    That letter encapsulates what so many of us are trying to say.

    I say it once more: Darien Fenton fronted up and apologised for her mistake. Does Peter Leitch have the guts to do the same?

    • higherstandard 35.1
      4 October 2011 at 3:26 pm

      “That letter encapsulates what so many of us are trying to say.”

      …and you can’t see why people call Labour arrogant and out of touch ?

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 35.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 3:38 pm

        Labour’s new campaign slogan:

        Vote for us, you gullible ignoramuses!

        • higherstandard 35.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 3:40 pm

          If I hadn’t seen some of Anne’s previous posts I would’ve sworn it was a piss take.

      • Bob Stanforth 35.1.2
        4 October 2011 at 5:35 pm

        +1

        And they wonder why people dont like them, and refuse to back them. But the voting public is gullible.

        Tui ad. 🙂

    • Nick C 35.2
      4 October 2011 at 4:03 pm

      Can’t you see the problem though? You treat the idea that ‘working class’ people will be better off under Labour, no matter how clueless Labour currently is, as a matter of fact rather than a matter of opinion upon which reasonable people can disagree. And as far as you are concerned the only problem with our political system appears to be that these working classes can’t simply be hearded like sheep into the polling booth with pre-filled Labour ballots.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 35.2.1
        4 October 2011 at 4:46 pm

        Ignorant of history then. GDP is always greater under Labour – their economic management is better than National’s and always has been. When the economy does better we all do better. Please try and keep up with the facts, as challenging to your prejudices as they are.

        • Nick C 35.2.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 5:19 pm

          Especially during the 1980’s when Labour’s current leaders Goff, King and Mallard were all cutting their political teeth right?

          Even if that were true (and I suspect it isn’t) it wouldn’t preclude a debate between reasonable people as to who will be best able to manage the economy in future.

          Of course to some voters the economy may not be the biggest issue. They may be more worried about waiting times for surgery, which National has cut significantly (partly by turning to the private sector). They may be more worried about interest rates and inflation, which have both been lower under National than they were under Labour.

          The point is that the voting decision is extremely subjective, but people like Darrien are treating it is objective by purely looking through the lense of class politics, and just assuming that the current Labour Party is competent when many on the left would disagree. Its exactly the same mistake Clare Curran made when talking about white anting by the Greens.

          • Bunji 35.2.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 8:15 pm

            For the record: Growth under Labour 4.1% per annum, National 2.9%.
            And Labour’s worst growth was in the 80s with the 4th Labour Government.

            Inflation lower under National? I could’ve sworn it recently hit a 21 year high.

            And yes, elective surgery waits are on average down, as National has cut preventative health measures to pay for them. We’ll just have to wait and see whether obesity & diabetes education and prevention measures is a better long-term solution than funding lots of stomach-stapling operations.

        • Nick C 35.2.1.2
          4 October 2011 at 5:24 pm

          “their economic management is better than National’s and always has been”

          In summary: If you think that statement is a matter of fact rather than a matter of opinion you are an idiot.

      • mik e 35.2.2
        5 October 2011 at 11:35 pm

        Nick C While national spend billions of borrowed money to buy votes

  36. felix 36
    4 October 2011 at 5:27 pm

    I’m starting to think they just hate women.

    • Nick C 36.1
      4 October 2011 at 6:03 pm

      Clearly. If a male Labour MP (lets say Trevor Mallard) said something equally bizzare on social media (lets say attacked an academic for his ‘links’ to a right wing blogger) then I imagine there would be no reaction at all from the right.

      Oh, wait…

      And since its a right wing sexism thing, clearly no one at all on the left is concerned about Darriens comments.

      Oh, wait…
      http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/09/29/beer-and-apology/comment-page-1/#comment-204618 (and numerous others).

      • felix 36.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 6:08 pm

        “If a male Labour MP (lets say Trevor Mallard) said something equally bizzare on social media”

        Err, what was it she said that was so bizarre?

        • Nick C 36.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 6:33 pm

          *sigh*

          Well it was bizarre enough that she felt the need to appologise for it, numerous Labour supporters on red alert felt the need to express their frustration over it, Phil Goff felt the need to post a damage control tweet this morning. heck even IrishBill agrees the comment was out of line!

          But feel free to go ahead and assume that anyone who doesn’t slavishly support the Labour Party is an enemy of the people and deserves to have their (former) business boycotted.

          • felix 36.1.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 6:45 pm

            So you don’t know what she said? Or it was so awful you can’t repeat it?

            • Nick C 36.1.1.1.1.1
              4 October 2011 at 6:57 pm

              http://whaleoil.gotcha.co.nz/files/2011/09/Fenton-hates-the-butch.png

              Well calling the Mad Butcher a sycophant, threatening to boycott his stores and asking ‘why’ labour should try to earn his support (as if that requires an intricate justification).

              All for merely holding an opinion she disagreed with on the PM.

              The key point of course is that she made these comments despite Mad Butcher arguably having personally done more for New Zealand’s working classes than any other living New Zealander.

              That enough for you?

              • Vicky32 …
                4 October 2011 at 7:05 pm

                threatening to boycott his stores (sic)

                No, she didn’t say anything about a boycott, although it doesn’t matter now, as you all seem convinced that she did, because Whale said so.

                • Nick C …
                  4 October 2011 at 7:14 pm

                  “I choose not to buy from those who support Tories”

                  http://www.yourdictionary.com/boycott
                  Boycott: To refuse to buy, sell or use

                  • The Voice of Reason …
                    4 October 2011 at 7:39 pm

                    Where does that quote come from, Nick? I googled it and only got one hit. Any chance it’s made up?
                     
                    I’ve been boycotting the Mad Butcher for over thirty years now, by the way. All butchers’ shops, as it happens. Doesn’t seem to have hurt them much, and I’m a lot healthier for it.

                    • The Voice of Reason …
                      4 October 2011 at 9:08 pm

                      Thanks SHG. I’m still not sure what the fuss is about. Surely she has freedom of choice? As well as not eating meat, I’ve also boycotted Shell because of them having a Nigerian poet hung a long time ago. I’m happy to say that it only took twenty years to win that fight and Shell have now fucked off out of NZ. OK, it may not really have been my boycott that did it, but I still feel good for making the choice.
                       
                      And, after all, don’t we all actively boycott stores on a daily basis? If I buy a pair of jeans from Store A, am I not refusing to buy from Store B?

              • felix …
                4 October 2011 at 7:25 pm

                Sorry what?

                All this is because someone called someone a sycophant?

                What’s the quote? Surely there must be more to it than “He’s a sycophant”.

                Surely. What are the words that so offend you, Nick?

            • Nick C 36.1.1.1.1.2
              4 October 2011 at 7:25 pm

              On second thoughts felix dont bother responding. I just read your comments earlier on this topic. You have already proven yourself immune to logical/reasonable arguments. I dont expect to get a different result.

              • felix …
                4 October 2011 at 7:29 pm

                You get what you give.

                So what were the words that got you so upset?

              • J Mex …
                4 October 2011 at 8:31 pm

                Exactly Nick C,

                Don’t waste your time.

                • felix …
                  4 October 2011 at 10:03 pm

                  Yeah don’t waste your time telling anyone what you’re offended by, just keep yelling that whatever it was you’re very offended indeed.

                  Particularly don’t waste your time with that bastard felix, he asks annoyingly straight questions that you won’t be able to answer crookedly.

                  So unfair. Dicks.

                  • J Mex …
                    5 October 2011 at 10:14 am

                    Yeah, when you get asked a direct question, it’s all “I’m not debating on your specific terms you control freak.”

                    Fact is, I’m not offended by what Darien said – In the least. But I, and any other forthright person with half a political brain, acknowledge that this was a cock up on the part of Fenton. It did Labour NO GOOD, and SOME (we can argue about the amount) HARM.

                    You want to argue that it wasn’t a mistake or stuff up. Number of people who actually believe that? Zero. Number of people who pretend there was no mistake because they are so tribal they feel the need to publicly project the ridiculous – Just one – Felix.

                    Zetetic even acknowledges it, and puts what I believe is the best possible shine on it. But at least Zetetic is being honest.

                    “Fenton was wrong in principle: Labour doesn’t own Leitch’s vote, and politically: her comment reinforced the narrative of Labour being bitter and nasty, which I know it’s Fenton’s character at all but the msm was all too keen to pick up once Farrar and Whaleoil had brought it to their attention.

                    Labour should be working to make friends with vote multipliers like Leitch – it’s what National has been doing – rather than getting shitty at any of them who don’t give the party their undying support. Leitch is clearly no political mastermind. Just someone who feels honoured being treated well by people with power, and will tend to reward them with his endorsement. There’s a lot of community figures like him who Labour could easily win over.

                    That said, it was just a mistake and she dealt with it the right way. She didn’t keep digging. She offered an apology and that should have been an end to it.”

                    You really are defending the indefensible, Felix, and losing any credibility over this one.

                  • felix …
                    5 October 2011 at 12:37 pm

                    My Dear Old Gran would’ve said you “write more than you think”, civil as she was.

                    “You want to argue that it wasn’t a mistake or stuff up.”

                    No, you want me to argue that.

                    See the difference? I’m not defending anything so I’ll thank you to stop putting words in my mouth, again.

                    I’d like an apology please, and you can fuck yourself while you’re giving it.

                    • J Mex …
                      5 October 2011 at 1:49 pm

                      Oh dear. That’s where you’ve got to?

                      I’m not arguing anything… I’m not saying anything… You think I think something but you’re wrong, I’m not arguing anything, you are. Don’t ask me what I think, I don’t have to tell you. I won’t answer questions just because you want me to. None of this matters, this type of thing is unimportant (unless the other side does something. Then it is outrageously important.)

                      You are a child.

                      On election night, I will think of you, Felix. The most unpleasant of partisan hacks I ever had the misfortune of attempting online discourse with. And I will think to myself, ‘I bet that cunt ‘Felix’ is miserable tonight’. And that will make me smile, and then I will go on with my life, and pay you no more mind.

                    • lprent []
                      5 October 2011 at 2:54 pm

                      The question would be which party he would be a partisan hack of?

                      Definitely not Labour, National, Act, UF, or NZF… I haven’t seen him say anything too derogatory about the greens or mana yet..

                    • Pete George …
                      5 October 2011 at 2:13 pm

                      I’ll thank you to stop putting words in my mouth, again.

                      That’s kinda cute coming from you felix. Maybe it’s a case of sowing, reaping.

                    • lprent []
                      5 October 2011 at 2:46 pm

                      Nope. There are a lot of things you can say about felix, but he doesn’t try to put words into your mouth.

                      Mostly he asks questions that people don’t want to answer, pokes ridicule, punctures pomposity, and very occasionally states what he actually thinks about something. I don’t think that he cares too much about peoples orientation political or otherwise. He seems to fasten on to people who try to avoid answering direct questions or are only around to troll.

                      Which is one of the reasons I keep an eye on who he is tormenting. The other is watching him persistently removing peoples Armour with short pertinent and frequently funny comments. It is an artform that I sadly lack the skill to do myself, despite having over 8000 comments of his to observe.

                      I always think of him as very sharp needle wearing a hat with three bells on it and the smile of a weasel having fun. I have no idea why he named himself after a cat…. 😈

                    • felix …
                      5 October 2011 at 2:27 pm

                      J Mex.

                      I’ve been totally consistent about this: I’m not a Labour supporter and I couldn’t care less what Fenton has to say about the Mad Butcher, the Mad Hatter, or Mad fucking Max.

                      Do you get it yet, weirdo?

    • J Mex 36.2
      4 October 2011 at 6:04 pm

      I’m starting to think they just hate women.

      Yes, Felix. And Labour supporters hate women AND are racist, evidenced by their treatment of Pansy Wong and Melissa Lee.

      You really are being a cock.

      • felix 36.2.1
        4 October 2011 at 6:14 pm

        Doh, what was I thinking?

        Kiwibog and Slater’s hole are well known bastions of tolerance where all races and genders are welcomed and differences respected.

        Lolz. What a silly goose I am.

        • Brett Dale 36.2.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 8:17 pm

          I dont think you can put kiwiblog and Slater in the same company.

          Kiwiblog is like CNN, Slater is like Faux News.

          • felix 36.2.1.1.1
            4 October 2011 at 10:06 pm

            You’re grading turds, Brett.

            Sure they might have slightly different textures and sizes and from your perspective the differences might seem immense.

            From where I sit though Brett, it’s all just shit.

  37. Jimmy 37
    4 October 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Disect it, spin it, stand it on its head, roll it it glitter, result = bad look for Labour!

  38. mickysavage 38
    4 October 2011 at 8:29 pm

    You know what is really, really funny with this post?
     
    The title is “The Right’s weird obsession with Darien Fenton”.
     
    We are now up to 228 comments.
     
    Talk about obsession.

    Wingnuts are frothing and accusing the let of hating working class heroes and women with no evidence but this has not stopped them in the past.

    Gawd do we have to put up with this until the election?

    I think there needs to be a better way to respond.

    DNFTT? 

    • Anthony 38.1
      4 October 2011 at 9:01 pm

      RWNJ?

      Half the people who have been complaining about this across blogs are left leaning who are fucking exasperated by the constant own goals.

      Losing this one = 3 more years of National which will be completely fucked

  39. higherstandard 39
    4 October 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Dudes not feel twenty titties ?

    • mickysavage 39.1
      4 October 2011 at 8:45 pm

      You are sick HS.  And weird.

      I reckon a ban is appropriate.  Irishbill?  HS is really weird. 

      IrishBill: if “weird” was a reason to ban people there’d be none of us here.

      • higherstandard 39.1.1
        4 October 2011 at 9:04 pm

        I know you are but what am I

        • mickysavage 39.1.1.1
          4 October 2011 at 9:22 pm

          You are a wanker, a pillock and a buffoon. I just wish you would debate the issues so your ass could be handed to you on a plate.

          • higherstandard 39.1.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 7:16 am

            Tell you what MS I’ll come to your next electorate meeting in West Auckland.

            I’ll be the one dressed as Willy Wonka but beware I will have had a nuclear tandoori the night before.

            Who can take the sunlight, sprinkle it with poo
            ‘parp!’
            Cover it with chocolate and a miracle or two
            ‘slop’
            The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
            The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
            He mixes it with love, makes the world taste good

            “arghhhhhh me eyes it burns”

  40. John 40
    4 October 2011 at 9:23 pm

    “The key point of course is that she made these comments despite Mad Butcher arguably having personally done more for New Zealand’s working classes than any other living New Zealander”

    C’mon, go back to kiwiblog, please. Mathew H, you really shouldn’t post when your drinking. The poor are going backwards under National. Also businessman need to look after their markets, peter leitch will lose customers because he didn’t think through his actions, mathew ridge wont get any customers because if you go “political” in your marketing expect folks to feel uneasy about you as a person, it’s creepy and desperate That’s just life.

    It’s all about swinging voters and they swing very slowly but if you can do basic maths and have an understanding of politics beyond simply loving National regardless of how much shit they dump on you you’ll realise that Labour still have a chance of forming a govt under mmp.

    You also might want to consider that taking away the swing vote of about 5% you pretty much have as many left voters in this country as right voters. Labour and the left are, and always have been the underdog in the media, it’s amazing they command 45% of the vote at the moment considering the bias that faces them at every turn.

    The nat supporter (s) ? on this thread know they could lose and thus are resorting to old school Muldoon tactics of irrational fear. It’s predictable but childish. National are a party that is only interested in smothering the country with a conservative chill that historically is a failure , Muldoon and Bolger were basketcase administrations and history is repeating itself. john key is no Helen Clark, he is fluff and in 6 – 9 years national will be disowning him as they do all their leaders, when it becomes apparent how limited his vision is. Even his one apparent skill, international finance, has quickly proved to be below average. Goff is disliked as much as Clark was disliked in opposition. Know your history.

    Clark is now recognised as one of the greatest politicians in the world today. Her respect is immense. Key is a goofball and dismal banker who is known as the guy who letterman used as a butt of a joke campaign that was the worst advertisement for n.z in america i have ever seen.

    We were 1% vote away from having don brash as the national prime minister and look at how much nats hate him now. What a party. What a sad party.

    • jem 40.1
      5 October 2011 at 10:31 am

      “peter leitch will lose customers because he didn’t think through his actions, ”

      Sorry mate, maybe you didn’t realise but he doesn’t own the Mad Butcher chain….. he sold it 3.5 years ago, so if anything, Labours lack of intelligent thought will loose an innocent bystander (the CURRENT owner of the chain) customers.

      Just like Labour to punish the innocent. Who is really not thinking through their actions?

      • The Voice of Reason 40.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 11:02 am

        Sorry mate, but you’re wrong. He’s still their spokesperson and gets paid to promote their stores, so this income is intrinsically linked to their success.

        • jem 40.1.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 11:46 am

          Interesting approach.

          So I am wrong for saying that Peter Leitch does not own the Mad Butcher chain?
          Or maybe I am wrong in saying that the new owner will loose customers, not the Peter, as he simply receives a fee for his services regardless of the number of customers through the stores?

          Interesting what you consider right and wrong. Maybe next you can tell me I’m wrong in saying that the Earth is not flat.

          • The Voice of Reason 40.1.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 4:56 pm

            Your second supposition is correct, jem. Ultimately, it’s the new owner’s problem, but Leitch is still intrinsically linked to the stores. Hell, until this blew up, I didn’t even know he’d sold them!
            If you have any other difficulties working out right from wrong in the future, do get in touch.
             
            And MarkM, below, you are fucken dreaming, my son. I’m sure he gets well compensated for his efforts on behalf of the stores. Why wouldn’t he? He does plenty of other work gratis, so why would you begrudge him some coin for the ad work he does for the shops?
             
            If you have any evidence he does it for free, post the link. But I think you’ll find it is a normal commercial arrangement, presumably part of the sale deal. Happy for you prove otherwise, though.

        • MarkM 40.1.1.2
          5 October 2011 at 4:36 pm

          And how do you “Voice of Reason” know Sir Peter , gets paid to be their spokesperson.
          I heard he does it for free.

  41. Herodotus 41
    5 October 2011 at 11:29 am

    I am just a bit lost – If the Peter Leich is so bad. Then why are both major party leaders associating themselves with him?
    It was a wee bit of fun this discussion – But why does Phil give it some more O2?
    Perhaps there was more political capital lost by the rant. If so that nice mans smile is still relavent and Labours disconnection with the public is still peceived to be there.
    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/10400546/mps-in-photo-battle-over-sir-peter/

  42. randal 42
    5 October 2011 at 2:47 pm

    this may be the only way she can get her piccy in the paper. the meedja and teevee had decided on their very ownsome that JOhn Keys and onlyJohn Keys gets his piccy in the paper every day and nobody else.
    enogut hits here and it might go viral like faceblerk.

  43. davidc 43
    5 October 2011 at 3:08 pm

    I think this article is a cunning ploy by the Standard in an attempt to catch up with Kiwiblog in the rankings!

    254 posts and counting!

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