The Standard is offering to the National Party leadership contenders guest post slots

128 comments on “The Standard is offering to the National Party leadership contenders guest post slots ”

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1. Infused 1

   7 December 2016 at 12:32 pm

   I think The Standard thinks it has more weight than it does tbh.

   I’d be amazed if they bother.
   • Matthew Whitehead 1.1

     7 December 2016 at 2:00 pm

     It’s not an unreasonable offer and it’s made in good faith. You don’t have to try and tear it down just because.
     • HDCAFriendlyTroll 1.1.1

       7 December 2016 at 2:39 pm

       Mickey’s amazed you thought it was serious.
       • infused 1.1.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 11:27 pm

         It was serious at first. The satire tag was added later after likely realizing how stupid it was.
   • WILD KATIPO 1.2

     7 December 2016 at 3:15 pm

     @ Infused

     { ‘ I think The Standard thinks it has more weight than it does tbh.

     I’d be amazed if they bother. ‘ }

     This might though , in light of Keys lies about resigning ‘ for family reasons’…

     And BTW – the news article they are using was dated Dec 21 , 2015.

     http://www.mscnewswire.co.nz/reporters-desk/item/1019-nz-premier-john-key-imf-managing-director-prospect.html

     Which demonstrates that right to the last Key and his ministers cannot be trusted to tell any semblance of the truth.
     • Wellfedweta 1.2.1

       7 December 2016 at 6:40 pm

       So, because you have read a newspaper opinion piece that contains unsubstantiated claims you accuse Key of lying?
       • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 6:53 pm

         Unsubstantiated ? …. by whom?… you?

         As to the second part of of your question ,… Yes.

         Me and at least 50% of the rest of the country.
         • wellfedweta 1.2.1.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 6:56 pm

           This article is from December 2015! Has Key become the MD of the IMF? No. You really are pathetic.
           • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1.1.1.1

             7 December 2016 at 8:33 pm

             L0L ! – just goes to show you cant believe everything you read in Granny Herald , can you now,…

             Which kind of begs the question …. how much politically biased drivel did Granny Herald feed the NZ public about Labour and Cunliffe , while at the same time providing glowing reports about how the sun shines out of Keys arse ?

             Or that $100,000 bottle of wine that never existed ?

             http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11279089
           • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1.1.1.2

             7 December 2016 at 8:55 pm

             Psssst !!!!

             Here’s the link for you to swat up on for your next retort, Welfedweta.

             http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11279089

             And here :

             https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/tag/nz-herald/
             • wellfedweta …

               8 December 2016 at 8:21 pm

               I’ve got no time for the Herald, WK, so you’re preaching to the converted. But back to your comment. Where is your evidence that Key lies about his resignation?
   • rob 1.3

     7 December 2016 at 6:56 pm

     I maybe out of line slightly? butt go fuck yourself. Just came to mind!
     • infused 1.3.1

       7 December 2016 at 11:30 pm

       I read that as go butt fuck yourself 😀
2. The decrypter 2

   7 December 2016 at 12:44 pm

   Chuck them –the contenders, in the pit shown, in a fight to the death. Charge, the likes of me,-{eager to watch} , give the money raised to a worthy cause. -maybe a national party wailing wall or something.
3. The Chairman 3

   7 December 2016 at 12:57 pm

   A commendable gesture, The Standard.
4. ropata 4

   7 December 2016 at 1:00 pm

   Any sincere and competent MP would relish an open public platform like TS to promote their policy, values, and plan for NZ.

   Does such a creature exist in this leadership race?
   • Infused 4.1

     7 December 2016 at 1:39 pm

     Why? You’re not the sort of people they need to convince. I’d bet 90-95% of the people here are core left voters of some description. Nothing any of these contenders say is going to change that.

     You’re just going to get a bunch of bs questions asked.
     • ropata 4.1.1

       7 December 2016 at 1:49 pm

       But surely our beloved Nats represent all New Zealanders? (as well as their true blue mates)
       • Infused 4.1.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 1:59 pm

         no one represents everyone.
         • ropata 4.1.1.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 2:34 pm

           In that case, is it safe to say the following?
           a) Nat MPs only care about their true blue mates and the rest of NZ can get f*ed
           b) Nat MPs are neither sincere nor competent
           c) Nat MPs do not think they need to be democratically elected nor accountable to the people of NZ
           • infused 4.1.1.1.1.1

             7 December 2016 at 4:33 pm

             don’t be so stupid. you know exactly what I mean.
             • Foreign waka …

               7 December 2016 at 6:15 pm

               No, infused – your response was right on the button. No one is represented, that is for sure.
               The ministers looking for the leader/deputy leader roles are being interviewed right now on the news. All of them, without exception talk about themselves or representing the National party.
               Let see, I need to get my head around this…. aren’t they suppose to represent the people who elected them – at the very least – and actually the NZ population at large? How fantastically self serving!
               I take a bow to Mr John Key keeping all this under wrap.
               This leadership competition will show the true colors of the contenders.
     • adam 4.1.2

       7 December 2016 at 1:50 pm

       Poor infused, so angry.

       Well it is one of the stages…
       • Infused 4.1.2.1

         7 December 2016 at 1:58 pm

         I’m not angry at all. I just find it funny you think they’d do this.
         • adam 4.1.2.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 2:27 pm

           Denial… A bit soon, but OK.
         • red-blooded 4.1.2.1.2

           7 December 2016 at 5:52 pm

           Hey, infused – I think you’re confused, here. No-one’s said they expect the candidates to front up. They’re simply being offered the chance.

           As for the idea that most of the readers here are hard-left, I guess I’d point out that you, and BM and many other mouthpieces of the right seem to comments very regularly. Anyone who posted on this site would have right, middle and left-leaning readers.
           • infused 4.1.2.1.2.1

             7 December 2016 at 11:41 pm

             I come here for the deranged comments, and the AR posts.

             CV’s banned, the only one here who made sense. So yeah, this place is quite to the left.
             • ropata …

               8 December 2016 at 1:07 am

               What did CV do this time? I worry about that chap…
               • Andre …

                 8 December 2016 at 5:24 am

                 Read all about it here.

                 https://thestandard.org.nz/everybody-wants-a-recount/#comment-1267351
       • WILD KATIPO 4.1.2.2

         7 December 2016 at 4:44 pm

         L0L!
     • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.3

       7 December 2016 at 2:03 pm

       You think the Nats don’t want to peel off voters from other parties? I’d disagree, it has been central to their political strategy in fact, and they’ve been speaking in glowing terms about Key in his success at attracting swing voters.

       If they’re sincere about wanting to govern for all New Zealand, it’s reasonable to make a respectful pitch towards people who might have slightly different values than they do. I’m personally willing to put aside my criticisms and listen to what they have to say.
       • Brutus Iscariot 4.1.3.1

         7 December 2016 at 2:28 pm

         Not much left to peel off now.

         But i agree in spirit with your post – if only some of your fellow commenters took the same approach in reverse.
         • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.3.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 3:53 pm

           If they’re not worried about those they did peel off running for the hills right now, they’re not paying attention. Collins particularly needs to reassure centrist voters that she will give them what they want to stay part of the National Party coalition.
       • infused 4.1.3.2

         7 December 2016 at 4:34 pm

         swing voters are not on thestandard.
         • Incognito 4.1.3.2.1

           7 December 2016 at 9:34 pm

           I think you just made a huge mistake with your assumption or is it assertion?

           The TS authors and regular commenters are less likely (!) to be so-called swing voters, I agree, but the silent readership of TS is much much larger. How many swing voters do you think would be among them?

           In any case, genuine political debate is not just about point scoring or pulling voters over to the other side, is it?

           It has been a long time since I have witnessed a proper intelligent genuine debate …
           • infused 4.1.3.2.1.1

             7 December 2016 at 11:42 pm

             very few. just like there are very few swing voters reading kiwiblog or whaleoil.
     • WILD KATIPO 4.1.4

       7 December 2016 at 4:52 pm

       @ Infused.

       Hey buddy , – I’m not a member of any party and have criticized Labour here as much as National.

       But the real reason I’ve criticized both is that I , – like thousands of others, – cant stomach the anti worker , anti sovereignty , anti democratic greed and deception that is the lot of the neo liberal ideology.

       And if it wasn’t for that one fact and that one fact alone , – you might even have found me voting for National !!!

       So how does that one sit with you , buddy?

       Perhaps that might explain some of the seething hatred for Key and a lot of the other subversives found in parliament on both sides of the political fence.
5. ropata 5

   7 December 2016 at 1:04 pm

   Q: what is your political philosophy?
   Q: what qualifies you to lead Aotearoa?
   Q: what is your vision for NZ in the next 10-50 years?
   Q: how will you help more Kiwis to share in the current prosperity?
   • Red 5.1

     7 December 2016 at 3:19 pm

     Also how will you help to Ropata by a house
     • ropata 5.1.1

       7 December 2016 at 11:09 pm

       Thanks for your kind thoughts, Red. Merry Christmas.
   • ropata 5.2

     7 December 2016 at 3:58 pm

     Collins:
     A: CRUSH
     B: The Will to Power
     C: A land overflowing with milk and money
     D: – – “share!?” does not compute – –

     English:
     A: I’m Alright Jack
     B: Stick with the devil you know
     C: GST at 100%, Company tax at -17%, All branches of government privatised
     D: By re-defining “Kiwis” as good middle class Christian white males
6. Corokia 6

   7 December 2016 at 1:08 pm

   Kinda pointless offer really because as we know, unlike Labour where the entire party membership get to vote, only Nat MPs have any say in the leadership vote.
   The contenders only really need concern themselves with their fellow causcus members. That fits with the right wing ethos though, just look after yourself and your mates and screw everyone else
   • Brutus Iscariot 6.1

     7 December 2016 at 2:36 pm

     Fairly dopey argument – caucus electing leader is an established feature of Westminster democracies. Positives and negatives for both approaches relate to the historical legacy of the party in terms of bottom up governance.

     The triple-layered approach suits the Labour party courtesy of its roots as an arm of the Unions. Similarly the Green Party is at its core still a “movement”. The National Party isn’t a movement, it’s more a loose affiliation of individuals with some overlapping views and ideologies.

     Caucus election is a reasonably legitimate form of election for such a party, given the embedded knowledge in caucus now of what it takes to win elections and govern. They have a large caucus too now don’t forget – 50 odd. I don’t think the open primary system that Labour has run has helped the party in the public eye. Airing dirty laundry in public can be cathartic or counterproductive.
     • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1

       7 December 2016 at 5:02 pm

       What a load of crap.

       Next you will be saying the signing of the Magna Carta wasn’t an in house affair designed to enhance the financial and political standing of the Barons but instead was designed solely with the wider population in mind.
       • red-blooded 6.1.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 5:57 pm

         Actually, I think Brutus has a valid point. While this seems pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek, the Nats do need to convince the wider public, not just each other. If that wasn’t an issue, we wouldn’t have Collins popping up all over the place claiming she’s been “completely exonerated” and trying to present herself as a populist.

         She’s sure entertaining, if nothing else!
         • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 6:11 pm

           Heh…. just quietly,… I do hope Collins somehow manages to goosestep her way in,… though not quite for the same reasons shes thinking…

           And while she sees National off down the proverbial gurgler, she can entertain us all with her antics along the way !

           Sadly though,… it’ll be boring old English ,… not Collins.
           • Hanswurst 6.1.1.1.1.1

             7 December 2016 at 8:23 pm

             I see this attitude too often here, and I don’t think it’s correct. I think many people are refusing to give Collins credit for how competent she is. Her ability to debate and get her point across in interviews and in the house is excellent – far more in the Clark league than the Key league, and she will know that the standards of what she can get away with in the more exposed position of party leadersre quite different from what she could afford herself when cultivating the image of a maverick MP and minister. For those who dismiss her for Oravida and her dirty politics associations, I would point out that she is nonetheless a current minister and automatically treated as a serious contender for the leadership.

             Voters will probably not forget her earlier scandals, but the latter will be easily tempered by whatever spin sge now wants to put on her political persona and ambitions. She certainly doesn’t have the artless affability that Key conveyed, but neither did Clark, Bolger or Muldoon. History suggests that the imagination of the voting public is captured by different styles at different times.
           • Jenny Kirk 6.1.1.1.1.2

             7 December 2016 at 8:42 pm

             Lol, Wild Katipo.
             Yep – I’m picking boring ole English too. Collins could have been fun to watch.
   • infused 6.2

     7 December 2016 at 4:36 pm

     Excuse me?

     Party members have 40% of the votes, caucus members have another 40% of the votes, and affiliated unions have 20% of the votes.

     Yeah, you get to vote. But it doesn’t really matter.
     • red-blooded 6.2.1

       7 December 2016 at 6:01 pm

       What the heck does that mean? The vote of each party member doesn’t carry as much weight as each caucus member, but that’s fine by me: the caucus knows the candidates a lot more intimately and they’re the ones who have to work with them the most closely. As for the affiliated unions getting a say – good. The Labour Party should never forget its obligation to represent the interests of the working class.
       • Bob 6.2.1.1

         8 December 2016 at 10:10 am

         ” the caucus knows the candidates a lot more intimately and they’re the ones who have to work with them the most closely.”
         So why not just let them choose the leader? The caucus only got their by being voted as the best representative for their members and then the best representative for their region, so let them choose the best representative for them.
     • Jenny Kirk 6.2.2

       7 December 2016 at 8:44 pm

       Are you trying to say the people of the Party didn’t vote Andrew Little in as Leader – well, don’t. The Unions were one voice, the Caucus were another, and the People were the third voice, and the People won.
       We all voted, we had choices 1, 2, and 3 – and Andrew Little came out on top. That was very democratic.
       • HDCAFriendlyTroll 6.2.2.1

         8 December 2016 at 9:50 am

         All votes are equal but some votes are more equal than others.
       • Bob 6.2.2.2

         8 December 2016 at 10:26 am

         “We all voted, we had choices 1, 2, and 3 – and Andrew Little came out on top. That was very democratic.”

         Wrong sorry Jenny, after round three voting (the final round) Grant Robertson had 56.25% of the caucus vote and 55.23% of the members vote. Andrew Little only won because ~75% of the Union Delegates voted Andrew Little as their first choice and Grant Robertson as their last choice.
         This shows how broken the Labour leadership vote is, the caucus who “knows the candidates a lot more intimately and they’re the ones who have to work with them the most closely” as red-blooded put it didn’t get their 1st, second or third choice (Little was last in the caucus votes after round one), and the members who clearly preferred Grant Robertson across all levels of voting didn’t get their choice either.

         Oligarchy is not the type of democracy I want to live in.
7. Gosman 7

   7 December 2016 at 1:16 pm

   I think this is meant to be satirical. However if not then I would like to ask the following questions of the author of this post.

   Given the contenders are trying to win over their fellow National party MP’s and not the wider membership base as in a Labour Party leadership election what benefit would it serve to post here?
   • Stunned Mullet 7.1

     7 December 2016 at 1:36 pm

     “what benefit would it serve to post here?”

     To provide general hilarity and a target for abuse ?
   • Matthew Whitehead 7.2

     7 December 2016 at 2:05 pm

     You clearly don’t have a good grip on satire, Gos.

     While the candidates only need to win over their fellow caucus members, they may want to show they have pull with a larger audience.
     • Gosman 7.2.1

       7 December 2016 at 2:08 pm

       You think this was a genuine off then? MS disagrees with you.
       • Matthew Whitehead 7.2.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 3:55 pm

         If it wasn’t, it should have been.

         It’s always better to hear what people’s real positions are from their own mouths. Unlike the National Party I think it’s a good thing to hear from people with opposing points of view, and I would welcome genuine comments from the Nat candidates if they’re willing to walk into the lion’s den.
   • Molly 7.3

     7 December 2016 at 5:36 pm

     Because the answers given will be taken into account by readers during the next general election.

     If the contenders for the position are not able to clarify why they should be leader of the National Party, then why the hell would you vote for them next year to lead the country?

     (But then National has always had an election strategy that is light on policy, so it would be a step too far for most of them :smile:)
8. DoublePlusGood 8

   7 December 2016 at 1:34 pm

   While this is a hilarious wind-up, there are quite a lot of National trolls here who would probably appreciate such a post.
   • Stunned Mullet 8.1

     7 December 2016 at 1:37 pm

     As a strong supporter of equal opportunity and non biased trolling I concur.
   • mickysavage 8.2

     7 December 2016 at 1:40 pm

     I’m amazed that some think it is a serious offer.
     • Stunned Mullet 8.2.1

       7 December 2016 at 1:42 pm

       Really ? After all your years posting here I’d have though you’d be acquainted with your commenting base by now ?
     • weka 8.2.2

       7 December 2016 at 2:45 pm

       A satire tag might have helped.

       [Just adding one – MS]
       • HDCAFriendlyTroll 8.2.2.1

         7 December 2016 at 4:02 pm

         Not including a link to the contact page would have helped.

         Just saying.
         • mickysavage 8.2.2.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 9:02 pm

           If one of the contenders wishes to submit a post I will be more than happy to put it up and monitor comments. I don’t think it is likely …
           • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.2.1.1.1

             8 December 2016 at 12:36 pm

             You’re far too busy to monitor the comments. Let me do it 😈
             • weka …

               8 December 2016 at 12:40 pm

               Ok, so now it’s worth doing just for that 😈 😈
     • Andre 8.2.3

       7 December 2016 at 4:14 pm

       Wot? Are you saying The Standard wouldn’t post it if any of the contenders submitted an offering?
       • b waghorn 8.2.3.1

         7 December 2016 at 5:45 pm

         they would have to admit that the standard is a thing to do that , can’t see them doing that.
       • mickysavage 8.2.3.2

         7 December 2016 at 9:04 pm

         I would happily put it up myself.

         See the contrast? Labour leader candidates put themselves on the digital line and submit posts and answer questions and attend meetings.

         National leader candidates not so much …
         • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.3.2.1

           8 December 2016 at 5:28 pm

           You can pay to meet them at Cabinet Club. Only $5k per table.
9. Muttonbird 9

   7 December 2016 at 1:37 pm

   Steven Joyce already posts here under the name Gosman. He’s always answering questions.
   • Stunned Mullet 9.1

     7 December 2016 at 1:41 pm

     No I am Steven Joyce, Gosman is Paula Bennett.
     • BM 9.1.1

       7 December 2016 at 1:43 pm

       I’m Judith Collins.
       • mickysavage 9.1.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 1:47 pm

         That explains a lot.
       • mauī 9.1.1.2

         7 December 2016 at 4:22 pm

         I remember when on tv you were asked what’s your favourite blog, and you replied “not the standard” in a really sarcastic voice. It all fits now.
         • mickysavage 9.1.1.2.1

           7 December 2016 at 9:06 pm
       • Siobhan 9.1.1.3

         7 December 2016 at 4:37 pm

         I’ve always thought you had the very best eyebrows EVER in NZ politics.
         • BM 9.1.1.3.1

           7 December 2016 at 6:11 pm

           Thank you for the kind words, you shall be eaten last.
           • Stunned mullet 9.1.1.3.1.1

             7 December 2016 at 7:31 pm

             😆
           • ropata 9.1.1.3.1.2

             7 December 2016 at 11:11 pm

             😂
       • mac1 9.1.1.4

         7 December 2016 at 10:45 pm

         Nah, Judith Collins knows what a ‘destructor’ really is!
     • alwyn 9.1.2

       7 December 2016 at 2:30 pm

       SM is not telling the full truth.
       “Je suis Steven Joyce”.
   • gsays 9.2

     7 December 2016 at 3:07 pm

     I am Brian, and so is my wife.
     • Tophat 9.2.1

       7 December 2016 at 4:07 pm

       No! I’m Brian.
       • alwyn 9.2.1.1

         7 December 2016 at 4:24 pm

         Don’t fight over it chaps.
         Remember what happened to Brian in the Monty Python film.
         I do like gsays comment though. I’d give it a smiley if only I could get the darn things to work.
         • mickysavage 9.2.1.1.1

           7 December 2016 at 9:07 pm

           🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

           Try typing “:smile:”
         • Anne 9.2.1.1.2

           7 December 2016 at 9:11 pm

           Leave space after full stop then : followed by ) – no space in between. 🙂

           sad or angry : followed by ( 🙁
           • alwyn 9.2.1.1.2.1

             7 December 2016 at 9:48 pm

             Trying again. “:smile:” Nope

             or. 🙂

             Yippee, that one works. Thank you Anne.
             • Anne …

               7 December 2016 at 10:09 pm

               Have a look at this:

               https://thestandard.org.nz/faq/smile/

               Once again minus the explanation marks.
10. adam 10

    7 December 2016 at 1:58 pm

    If it has the same type of moderation as the labour party contest, I think it would be very good.

    Let’s not forget, we have a lot of center voters who look at this site.

    The Tory’s want the center vote, I don’t see why they can’t argue with a few from the left to earn the right, to get it.

    I’m sure Judith and Paula think they can destroy any arguments we might have. Bill and Jonathan must have responses to any left wing questions sorted as well.
    • Stunned Mullet 10.1

      7 December 2016 at 2:28 pm

      “Let’s not forget, we have a lot of center voters who look at this site.”

      LOL
      • adam 10.1.1

        7 December 2016 at 3:12 pm

        🙂
      • ropata 10.1.2

        7 December 2016 at 3:47 pm

        Second most popular NZ blog on the OP rankings
        https://openparachute.wordpress.com/2016/12/01/november-16-nz-blogs-sitemeter-ranking/

        Also, lurkers could be from anywhere.
        Also, since when was voting Labour NOT centrist?
11. greywarshark 11

    7 December 2016 at 3:57 pm

    Can someone who knows please provide the links to bring up Blip’s questions of Key’s muckups and lack of versimilitude (lies, near lies and possible porkies)? Please.

    I would have thought Blip would be listed as one item in the archives in politics but can’t see and can’t search. I had the link somewhere but someone better indexed than I could help with this. From it commenters could pick some beautifully tailored questions – Would you do this? Is this something that should be changed, taken apart? What will happen to the vulnerable if this is done? Where do you see your strategic interest taking you – same as Key’s here? Etc etc.
    • TopHat 11.1

      7 December 2016 at 4:26 pm

      Will this help?
      https://offkey.hackpad.com/Honest-John-NgiWfXTpnvD
    • Rosemary McDonald 11.2

      7 December 2016 at 7:05 pm

      https://thestandard.org.nz/john-keys-lies-since-the-2014-election-updated/
      • greywarshark 11.2.1

        8 December 2016 at 11:24 am

        Thanks Rosemary.
        And Top Hat thanks also, glad that someone put that precious list under Lock and Key! Looks nice and easy to read.

        And thanks Blip for documenting the things that future pollies need to do to win high office as PM in NZ and stay popular! Sarc/
12. rod 12

    7 December 2016 at 5:16 pm

    Whatever happened to Mike Sabin by the way?
    • ropata 12.1

      7 December 2016 at 5:33 pm

      Committed the cardinal sin of getting caught
      • Tory 12.1.1

        7 December 2016 at 5:40 pm

        Caught doing what exactly?
        • ropata 12.1.1.1

          7 December 2016 at 6:01 pm

          Dunno, but whatever it was embarrassed the Party, and Sabin wasn’t well connected like McCully and Collins so he couldn’t wriggle out of it
          • Tory 12.1.1.1.1

            7 December 2016 at 7:13 pm

            So you “think” he did something and wasn’t able to “wriggle” out of it?. Sounds like bullshit to me unless you can provide actual details.
            • DoublePlusGood 12.1.1.1.1.1

              7 December 2016 at 9:50 pm

              It must have been something quite bad for him to have been disappeared like that – it was faster than Ede disappeared. Sabin was the darling of the right’s ‘tough on crims’ lobby with his dodgy business in the meth industry, so they wouldn’t normally have wanted to get rid of them.
              Normally people only disappear that fast if they’ve been a complete moron like Aaron Gilmore’s special effort to be as grossly arrogant as possible.
          • BM 12.1.1.1.2

            7 December 2016 at 7:27 pm

            Here be dragons, boyo.
            • ropata 12.1.1.1.2.1

              8 December 2016 at 1:04 am

              🤐
13. Tory 13

    7 December 2016 at 5:39 pm

    “I’m sorry for being a man…,” fuck wrong post, sorry.
    • Cinny 13.1

      8 December 2016 at 6:52 am

      That’s ok dear, when would you like the operation to change that small disadvantage that you have? Help is on the way, I’ll sharpen my knife.
14. rhinocrates 14

    7 December 2016 at 11:00 pm

    Obviously:

    You’re in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise, X. It’s crawling toward you. You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back, X. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping…

    I don’t think that Collins was able to answer or even comprehend that. How about the rest?
    • Rosemary McDonald 14.1

      8 December 2016 at 12:22 am

      I doubt she’s a Dick fan, although a peek into her dreams might in interesting….
    • Cinny 14.2

      8 December 2016 at 7:02 am

      once some are on their backs their fucked? Lol I’m a bit of a smart arse this morning, there was this girl with a reputation, one of the lads gave her the name turtle for that reason.

      But seriously it’s about ‘we’ not ‘me’ the turtle and the desert walker… the walker flips the turtle, saving it’s life, the turtle is great company and shares its wisdom with the walker, saving it’s life. It turns out there was a map on the turtles shell showing the way out of the desert, but the desert walker would have never known that, if they hadn’t stopped to helped the turtle.

      Turning a blind eye can often lead to ones own suffering.

      Other than my take on the turtle, i’ve honestly no idea what you mean Rhino and where Dick comes into it Rosemary. Could you fellas’ please explain i’m a bit lost. Thanks

      I think i got it… how about this, thanks google..

      This from Blade Runner which is based on the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick.

      Holden: The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs, trying to turn itself over but it can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping’
      • Andre 14.2.1

        8 December 2016 at 11:02 am

        Just don’t mention anything about anyone’s mother.
    • Puckish Rogue 14.3

      8 December 2016 at 8:27 am

      Why would you flip it over in the first place?
      • Adrian Thornton 14.3.1

        8 December 2016 at 10:41 am

        Yeh that is obviously the real question.

        The answer (putting on my Freud cap for moment) is power, while the turtle is walking along minding it’s own business, it does not acknowledge your obvious potential power over it.
        Once you have flipped it on it’s back for it to feel the potential of a slow painful death, and then you then flip it back over, you perceive that it now acknowledges your power and that it owes you a debt… but then if we follow @Cinny’s story, where the Turtle spreads it’s wisdom and shares a map with the sick fuck who tortures animals to gain power and force the ‘wisdom’ out of them, can you then trust that wisdom or the map?
        • Puckish Rogue 14.3.1.1

          8 December 2016 at 10:57 am

          As far as my understanding of turtles go they don’t really stray to far from some form of a water source so if it was me I’d (hopefully) know where the nearest water source is (I’m not going to play silly buggers in the desert after all) and if it was close by I’d leave it alone but if we weren’t and the turtle wasn’t too heavy I’d carry the turtle to the water source

          But then I also might also be going to far into it
      • weka 14.3.2

        8 December 2016 at 12:23 pm

        “Why would you flip it over in the first place?”

        Because you want to stop it getting to where it is going.

        Because you’re a sadist.

        Because you think there are too many turtles in the world.

        Because you want to prove that everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

        Because you know sweet fuck all about turtles and their needs and you think they’re better off that way.
        • Puckish Rogue 14.3.2.1

          8 December 2016 at 12:35 pm

          Ok fair call, I mean I wouldn’t but those are valid answers to my question
          • weka 14.3.2.1.1

            8 December 2016 at 12:39 pm

            You get the analogy with Collins though, right?
            • Puckish Rogue 14.3.2.1.1.1

              8 December 2016 at 12:53 pm

              To be fair I thought you were referring to me which I thought was a bit harsh 🙂
              • weka …

                8 December 2016 at 1:48 pm

                I was definitely think of Collins and co. That would be a bit harsh if applied to you, but I guess you can decide if the cap fits, politically speaking ;-P
15. Robert Guyton 15

    8 December 2016 at 11:00 am

    As far as my understanding of turtles goes, they aren’t tortoises.
    • Puckish Rogue 15.1

      8 December 2016 at 11:21 am

      Snap! Ah yes well I blame Cinny and Adrian 🙂
16. Robert Guyton 16

    8 December 2016 at 11:29 am

    It’s the Way of the Rightie, blame-shifters all (and smoothed with a smile)
    • Puckish Rogue 16.1

      8 December 2016 at 11:38 am

      True I accept the blame for believing Lefties and not questioning them, I’m just too trusting for my own good 😉
      • Robert Guyton 16.1.1

        8 December 2016 at 1:27 pm

        Followed by the faux apology – classic Righty slipperiness, as demonstrated so ably by your ex and his daggy hangers-on.
        • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1.1

          8 December 2016 at 1:46 pm

          🙂

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