Trump’s not so bad: the inject bleach edition

Written By: - Date published: 10:15 am, April 25th, 2020 - 152 comments
Categories: covid-19, Donald Trump, us politics - Tags: , , , ,

A while back I wrote a post about the problem with that idea Trump’s not so bad, an idea that comes from both parts of the left and the moderate right. The post was in light of stealing kids and putting them in cages, and the general, now years old, analysis of rising fascism in the US. I posted some examples of the damage being done. For reference.

If the past four years weren’t evidence enough, here’s the latest example.


From the Independent,

“I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning,” the president said during his daily Covid-19 briefing. A senior health official, under questioning from reporters, later said federal laboratories are not considering or trying to develop such a treatment option.

“You see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number [on the] lungs, so it would be interesting to check that,” he said, appearing to refer to the disinfectant idea. “We’re going to have to use medical doctors, but it seems interesting to me”

I watched the above video and I thought, this man is deeply stupid. So stupid he can’t conceive of how stupid he is. Handy explanation from John Cleese,


Let’s laugh while we still can.

It can’t be performance, surely. But if one of the tactics of fascism is to create regular chaos to social norms so that the MSM and the general  public can’t keep up, but instead become inured to the social and political changes that allow power to be consolidated, then it doesn’t matter if Trump really is this stupid. Because the performance of a fool serves the same purpose. I’m not sure it’s possible to separate out the fool from the fascism any more.

Watch this snip of the Coronavirus Response Coordinator for the president’s Coronavirus Taskforce, Dr Deborah Birx,

Everyone in the room, including one of the President’s own senior pandemic advisors, knows that what he is saying is both a complete nonsense and dangerous. Much is being made of Dr Birx’s body language, but I’m sitting here wondering why the fuck she doesn’t get up and walk out. Really, how far is this going to go? We’re well beyond the Emperor’s new clothes.


For those unaware, drinking disinfectant is a practice used by some parents of autistic children, whereby having the child drink chlorine dioxide is believed to be a cure. MMS (Miracle Mineral Supplement) is a widely promoted alt health practice claimed to cure, among other things, autism, cancer, and HIV/AIDS. The FDA has issued advisories to stop it.

One thing to pay attention to here is the connection between what Trump is saying and some of the alt health communities, who in the US also tend to be anti-vaxxers and have high distrust the government. They’re more likely right now to be running conspiracy theories about covid, and to be denying the seriousness of the pandemic. My guess is that there is a significant overlap there with support for Trump, the cultures share much especially around libertarian values. The lack of scientific literacy displayed by Trump is very similar to how the MMS/alt health conspiracy crowd operate. This appears to be getting worse.

This is worth noting because ridiculing these people is about as effective as ridiculing redneck Trump voters and calling them deplorables. Many in the alt health crowd should be progressive/left wing but are being radicalised to the alt right.

Turns out that the leader of the MMS movement has been emailing the president.

The other issue is that the whole performance is a form gaslighting where we are expected to deny reality and our own perceptions in favour of an authoritarian narrative. Trump’s idiocy for all to see yesterday was followed up today with PR saying he was being sarcastic. Trump’s supporters, including MSM, are running lines that he didn’t suggest that people actually inject bleach, but was simply raising some ideas for medical research. Tui award right there.

152 comments on “Trump’s not so bad: the inject bleach edition ”

  1. bill 1

    Is it really that Trump isn't so bad, or more a case of others being no better?

    Obama was President when kids were put in cages. Biden encouraged Democratic voters via text to go out and vote in person in the middle of a pandemic. Health care authorities in the South of England announced they were issuing Do Not Resuscitate orders on people with learning difficulties and autism.

    I could go on and on with examples of mendacity and stupidity from people in positions of authority, but I guess there would be no point in a world where people would rather slate everything back to the presence of one man in high office as though – this belief applies to some – his removal would 'set things to rights'.

    • Sabine 1.1

      Kids were already put in cages under President Bush. Gitmo came via President Bush.

      Not a fan of Obama, but it needs to be said that during Obama he was taken to court and he had to stop the shit he was doing for most part. Currently non of that is happening, in fact the courts now are filled with Justices who will never rule against King Trump.

      You could go on and on with examples of mendacity and stupidity, but please show us where Obama was ever a danger to the US and the World by becoming an autocratic theocratic (evangelic fundamentalism is no better then fundamentalistic islam or fundamentalistic orthodix christianity to name just two) armed with nuclear weapons that the hostage taker, the blackmailer in chief would use and chances are will use at some stage during his or Jarvankas reign.

      Because Obama did not cancel elections, did not surround himself with acting this and that to overcome oversight, did not gut every department and staffed it with ass kissing toadies inclusive the pentagon.

      the orange dipshit however is doing all of this, inclusive telling people to drink chlorine in order to 'kill' the virus.

      there is mendacity, and then there is outright sadism. And trump is a sadist who gets of on the suffering of others, it makes him feel potent.

      • bill 1.1.1

        I wasn't aware that Bush also placed children at the Mexican border in cages, which…well, if your going to cast someone as an "autocratic theocrat", then all debate ceases because the problem is simply that there is an autocratic theocrat.

        Trump is symptomatic of a deep malaise within the political culture or body of US politics. He was one possible natural extension of US politics. He didn't have to usurp any pre 2016 order to become President, and institutional influences have kept him trucking along within the confines and general direction of 'acceptably vile'.

        Basically, from an establishment perspective, Trump's only "crime" is his failure to present the public with a facade that's good enough to mask the horrific reality of the political system he's a figure head of.

        The ridiculous hashtag resistance of a Democratic Party that has given his Administration everything it's asked for (and sometimes more than it's asked for) is – at least for some of us – evidence enough of that.

        Extra surveillance powers? No problem. Expand an already bloated military budget? No problem. Set up a $4 trillion slush fund for corporate America? No problem. Want to execute coups, install blockades, lay down sanctions? No problem.(There's probably an extensive list of "you gotta be kidding me" items somewhere within a google search)

        Meanwhile, we're to take the po-faced claims of the Democratic Party and sections of US Intelligence that he's "in bed with the Russians" seriously?!?!

        The guy's a dripping snot of vile sitting atop a heaving glob of vile called US politics. He's a symptom, not the problem.

        Put in a Biden or a Cuomo and the general direction of travel of US politics will not alter.

        • AB

          "Put in a Biden or a Cuomo and the general direction of travel of US politics will not alter."

          Yes – and it needs to be said, repeatedly.

          But a "general direction" does imply that there's a difference in the particulars. And on that basis it's a reasonable argument to say that a Trump admin would cause greater aggregate human suffering in the short-term than a Biden one. Plus it seems likely that a Trump admin would do more structural damage to American democracy through court-stacking, voter-suppression, etc., Also I think one could argue strategically, that a neo-liberal Biden admin will be easier to fight than a neo-fascist Trump admin, with the latter having the support of some very dark forces indeed.

          • bill

            Yup. There are certainly differences in the detail. And there are arguments to be made over the precise location, nature and/or likely effects of those differences.

            Though arguably, that might amount to no more than haranguing one another on whether we would be better off with chocolate icing or vanilla icing on that there strychnine loaded sponge cake.

            • woodart

              whataboutism is bollocks ,and should be ignored. its pure deflection of the worst sort

            • McFlock

              Aggregate human suffering isn't a detail. Minimising it is the job of leaders.

              Obama kept families together and prioritised them for processing and release. The current regime takes children away from parents with no intention of ever reuinting them. That's a big fucking detail, and one of many.

              • bill

                Aggregate human suffering isn't a detail. Minimising it is the job of leaders.

                Seems you somehow missed – there are arguments to be made over the precise location, nature and/or likely effects of those differences.

                • McFlock

                  I saw it as a pathetic distancing statement from 50,000 (and counting) deaths.

                  I saw it as a thin veneer of abstraction over the thousands of detainees who have caught covid while in the "care" of the state.

                  Because the differences between the current oaf and any competent leader (evcn a leader who fails to meet your political or moral satsifaction) does not require much precision to detect.

                  Most people need to distance themselves to get an abstraction imprecise enough to pretend even close equivalence. Sometimes it seems to be such a great distance that they're on another planet.

                  But the commenter who can argue dolt45's equivalence (or even superiority) using particular examples? That's a unicorn, right there.

                  • adam

                    From the guy who happy to write off the deaths of of hundreds of thousands, becasue the US state department has increased sanctions.

                    wift of…

    • Gabby 1.2

      He is so bad and then some, regardless of how shitty anyone else is.

    • weka 1.3

      Your comment is classic 'Trump's not so bad'. As far as I can tell, this position only works if one believes that the US isn't on a distinct and clear path of establishing a form of fascist state as we speak. It's not about mendacity and stupidity. As you say, there's plenty of that in the world. It's about what happens when people lose the ability to resist that or effect positive change, because of how the state and society are transformed to be controlled in an authoritarian way. It's also about how left and moderate right wing narratives that minimise this are part of the process of enabling it.

      • bill 1.3.1

        I'm not saying 'Trump's not so bad". I'm saying he's a natural product of US politics. Maybe your comment is born from a perspective that would suggest the US political economy isn't so bad afterall? A perspective that can only be maintained by casting Trump as an aberration?

        "…when people lose the ability to resist that or effect positive change, because of how the state and society are transformed to be controlled in an authoritarian way"

        Well, various degrees and methods of silencing dissent goes a long way on that front – eg, from the jailing of the likes of Assange and Manning, to the marginalisation of independent journalists like Greenwald, Blumenthal et al.

        Throw in the pushing of co-ordinated and well oiled hoaxes and false narratives from Russiagate to Syria and China…and yeah – authoritarianism (or at least a fading ability to hold things up to sensible scrutiny) is kind of already here.

  2. Sabine 2

    What about her emails tho?

    and what about that doctor who sits there and does nothing?

    • weka 2.1

      Yeah, I'm really curious about her now. Like what must be going on in her head and heart to be able to do that. Presumably she supports Trump and/or the Republicans or she wouldn't have taken the job, but you'd have to have some kind of weird internal wrangling to keep any semblance of normal in that situation. Otoh, lots of people in the administration don't last a normal length of time in their jobs.

      What about her emails, lol, that's another whole set of mental wrangling.

      • Anne 2.1.1

        Good summation weka. When John Cleese was describing the Dunning Kruger Effect he had no idea how prescient he was :

        Slightly off-topic but I picked this up on the RNZ live feed:

        Political and business leaders from around the world have launched an initiative to speed up the development of ways to treat and cure Covid-19.

        The head of the World Health Organisation, Tedros Ghebreyesus, says this is a landmark collaboration and stressed everybody should have access to the new treatments.

        Dr Tedros says the shared commitment is to ensure all people have all the tools to defeat Covid-19 .

        The United States has declined to take part in the initiative.

        – BBC

        Well, the corollary of that is: if they do find a successful treatment and cure for Covid 19 then the US shouldn’t get it. But they will and Trump will claim it was his initiative.

  3. If the distraction has to be as big as injecting bleach, then distance from hydroxychloroquine might be more important than it looks. The vulture capitalists are circling and they're all pushing contact tracing. Couple this with fox news promoting a medicine in the same environment as encouraging their gun totting pro life viewers to give up their lives for the economy and it looks like a trojon horset for cambridge analytica 0.2, and the distance is to protect the client, Larry Ellison? The placebo might not have been worth the gamble, but I can't see the "data miners" of "the new oil" giving up. But surely showing your invisible face shows how desperate the race is. They all just want to help, we are all friends, aren't we?

  4. Alice Tectonite 4

    …deny reality and our own perceptions in favour of an authoritarian narrative.

    2 + 2 = 5

  5. Peter 5

    As bizarre as events were to watch as they unfolded at the White House briefing as they happened, the subsequent events are even more so.

    The behind the scenes talk that went on after the press conference yesterday would have been amazing to witness.

    Trump is envious of the absolute power Kim Jong Un has. In Kim's world the underlings must walk around as if over hummingbird eggs. One broken and you're dead. Not one fibre in your body would even consider questioning or contradicting the boss.

    Being done away with might be more metaphorical in Washington but the wielding of power is the same as is the obeisance, obedience and fear.

    There is, always has been and always will be mendacity and stupidity from people in positions of authority. This effort though is gold medal standard although maybe it is just that it gets to be highlighted by the immediacy of media coverage.

    Then again we'll soon hear it didn't happen or didn't happen in certain ways and on being told the fact, that it's 'fake news' some will believe Trump.

  6. Ad 7

    While the United States' leadership failure has generated the worst-ever health crisis for 330 million Americans, the World Health Organisation is doing what it shoudl do and pulling together the international effort for cures and vaccines:

    The leaders who came together at a virtual event, co-hosted by the World Health Organization, included:

    – President of France

    – President of the European Commission

    – Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

    – UN Secretary General

    – AU Commission Chairperson

    – G20 President

    – Heads of state of France, South Africa, Germany, Vietnam, Costa Rica, Italy, Rwanda, Norway, Spain, Malaysia and the UK (represented by the First Secretary of State).

    Also bunches of other relevant NGOs and corporations including the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), GAVI-the Vaccine Alliance, the Global Fund, UNITAID, the Wellcome Trust, the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement (IFRC), the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers (IFPMA), the Developing Countries Vaccine Manufacturers’ Network (DCVMN), and the International Generic and Biosimilar Medicines Association (IGBA), Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, Gavi Board Chair and Sir Andrew Witty, former CEO of GlaxoSmithKline.

    Notably both US and China reps not participating.

    Still great to see the remains of international cooperation and cohesion still being useful.

    • weka 7.1

      What do you make of China not participating?

      • Ad 7.1.1

        Just idiots. They are doing big diplomatic moves right across the world. They are so vulnerable to global opinion at the moment.

        • Graeme

          Or, along with the US, kept out, or were kept out, of the public view to avoid being a distraction and turning the thing into a China / US recrimination show.

    • bill 7.2

      Dunno quite where you got that list from Ad.

      The initial core group was (from the link you provided) BMGF, CEPI, Gavi, Global Fund, UNITAID, Wellcome Trust, WHO.

      In links from that page, there is mention made of the input from Beijing Institute of Biotechnology and the Beijing Institute of Biological Products as well as the Wuhan Institute of Biological Products.

      Not quite "non-participation".

      • Ad 7.2.1

        My list was in the link provided.

        I hadn't seen that other link, and am very pleased to see Chinese institutions participating. In fact I’m just delighted to be corrected on this one.

        The glaring absence is the United States. The Trump and Pompeo denial of co-operation with and funding for the WHO got even more stark.

        • bill

          Still not seeing it, but hey.

          There's also been some calls from the UK that might be interpreted as suggestions to by-pass or duplicate WHO. As for the US looking to fuck UN bodies, lamentable as it is, it isn't anything new.

          • Ad

            President Trump is far more destructive to UN and multilateral relations than President Obama was.

            • RedLogix

              Clinton, GW and Obama all neglected to give US Foreign policy any overarching direction or purpose. As a result key alliances weakened and opportunities to solve problems were wasted.

              Trump has taken a wrecking ball to what remained.

              It's not obvious however that the world which remains is in a position to repair the damage.

              • Ad

                Oh horseshit.

                "Direction or purpose" was different for each, but that's what they're elected and expected to be.

                Compared to Trump, Clinton and Obama engaged hard and substantively with other countries and formed strong alliances and agreements. Don't have to always like them, but they were huge. And anyone can do a laundry list of failures, but let's remember their successes as well.

                President Clinton negotiated NAFTA. A pretty groundbreaking trade agreement. He drove that because having been educated at the Georgetown School of Foreign Service, he viewed multilateral trade agreements as massive forces of international cohesion. He called it the "doctrine of enlargement" – the doctrine of expanding the number of strength of market democracies around the world.

                He pushed a big revision of the General Agreement of Tariffs and Trade through Congress.

                He persuaded Russia to withdraw troops from the Baltic states.

                He helped broker peace between Ireland, the UK, and Sinn Feinn through his emissary.

                He facilitated pretty useful negotiations between Israel and Palestinians.

                He supported NATO often and well, particularly in the post-Yugoslav disaster. In fact NATO expanded to include Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic because he pushed it.

                He propped up Boris Yeltsin through the UMF bailout. In fact through the Nunn-Lugar Act achieved the incredible feat of actively working with its otherwise sworn enemy in Russia to ensure the safe dismantling of nuclear weapons and safeguarding nuclear power generators. Prior to Clinton a nuclear war exchange between the two was absolutely real.

                Anyone remember the Treaty on the Non-Proliferatio nfo Nuclear Weapons? Clinton.

                Anyone remember the Agreed Framework with North Korea (stuffed up by the following President? Clinton.

                In fact with Clinton the US took to hand the most nettlesome human rights interventions. By June 1999 he had supported the UN strongly to five major new operations, and through US funding and US deployment increased UN forces in the field to 40,000 troops.

                Plenty of failures, sure, but he had pretty clear direction for foreign policy.

                I could have done the same with the Obama regime, but you get the idea.

                Don't go painting US Presidencies with a house brush until they all look the same colour. The Trump Presidency is a fundamental and massive breach of US international engagement the likes of which we have not seen in a century.

                • RedLogix

                  I have to respect such a comprehensive response; you are right it's not accurate to paint all Presidents with the same brush.

                  In my defense I was outlining a broad trends; certainly in the 90's during Clinton's era the US was still highly engaged in the wider world and absolutely Clinton was very good at responding to events as they arose. Another important initiative Clinton was involved in was the transformation of the internet from a US military tool into the global network it is today.

                  Prior to the end of the Cold War the US had one clear overarching goal, contain the Soviets. And they did with remarkable success. After this they never really stopped to ask themselves 'what next?' In some quarters we heard high minded hopefulness about a 'peace dividend', but even that had a primarily domestic focus.

                  I guess my thesis comes to this, when the Iron Curtain fell the USA had this once only opportunity to take the global alliance they had cobbled together and take it to the next level. Instead they coasted on the considerable momentum they'd created for 30 more years. Now Trump has spiked the tyres and slammed on the brakes.

                  • Ad

                    Yeah fully agree with that generally. Same applies to the left.
                    If you were a lower order of commentator like that dick Morrissey I wouldn’t have bothered. You’re worth it.

            • RedLogix

              The good news is that finally most of the world's nations have finally woken up to the blunt truth that no country can solve this crisis entirely on their own.

              Sadly it's taken all of 12 weeks for them to realise this.

              The US never really aspired to be a great power, it accidentally found itself in that role and was never comfortable in it. They were the country founded against empire, and the isolationist faction has always been strong. Trump has merely energised them.

              • Ad

                I can't think of a US President before George H. W. Bush that didn't aspire to moral leadership of the entire world. They started with an empire of ideas and added hard power to it.

                Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal, and allied leadership in the second half of WW2.

                Truman and the Marshall Plan, and formation of the UN and a bunch of other global institutions

                Eisenhower protecting the rest of us from communist invasion, often successfully.

                Here's Kennedy going all out, actually forging a way out of the Cold War if the military would let him.


                Nixon (!) reaching out to China.

                Each in their own way believed they had a specific moral imperative to lead the world according to American interests. They would not have been elected if they didn't (LBJ excluded of course).

                In the course of living memory they have aspired to both moral power and military power, economic power and multilateral power. They got there because they wanted it.

                • RedLogix

                  They got there because they wanted it.

                  Well certainly the 'National Security/Business' faction did for a long time. But both factions are now adrift in the political scene; neither as clearly attached to the Republicans as once could be presumed.

                  Albright would be an senior figure in this faction:


                  That's largely why Trump as been able to so comprehensively trash the US global network and encounter so little pushback from within his own party.

                  The really interesting question is going to be … will the Democrats pull these floating groups across into their alliance? Certainly HC looked like she was on track to do this; yet in doing so she alienated other factions of the Democrat party.

                • Poission

                  Eisenhower protecting the rest of us from communist invasion, often successfully.

                  The Government of the United States approaches this conference with hopeful sincerity. We will bend every effort of our minds to the single purpose of emerging from that conference with tangible results towards peace, the only true way of lessening international tension.

                  We never have, and never will, propose or suggest that the Soviet Union surrender what rightly belongs to it. We will never say that the peoples of the USSR are an enemy with whom we have no desire ever to deal or mingle in friendly and fruitful relationship.

                  On the contrary, we hope that this coming conference may initiate a relationship with the Soviet Union which will eventually bring about a freer mingling of the peoples of the East and of the West – the one sure, human way of developing the understanding required for confident and peaceful relations.

                  Eisenhower atoms for peace speech


      • Incognito 8.1.1

        Yet Hydroxychloroquine is used as a major covid treatment worldwide.

        This is complete misunderstanding and misinterpretation! Why are you making up BS?

        • mauī

          I'm not making things up, I'm going by the link.

          "Sermo’s COVID-19 Real Time Barometer observational study polled over 20,000 expert physicians in 30 countries, including the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, France, Brazil, Russia, China, Japan and Australia. "

          • Incognito

            You uncritically parrot the findings of a poll and you seem to imply that HCQ is effective. Did you look at the underlying data in their Barometer?

            Do you think UV and bleach treatments are effective to against COVID-19? How is HCQ relevant to treatment with bleach? Sounds like whataboutery to me.

            • mauī

              Sounds like I'm being asked for my papers and if I'm carrying the official HCQ text book.

              • Rosemary McDonald

                Maui. Hydroxychloroquine was used back when as one of the tools in the tool box for SARS…if memory serves.

                I can't link from my phone to the papers from back then…but they are there. 😉

                Two points…if any other person had suggested hydroxychloroquine as a potential treatment it would not have provoked such a torrent of derision.

                I simply do not understand why it was acceptable to the pharmacological experts here on TS for hydroxychloroquine to have been used off label as a treatment for lupus and the like but somehow it is simply ludicrous to even suggest trying it for Covid 19.

                Oh that's right…fucking Trump talked about it.

                • Incognito

                  It is not ludicrous to suggest that HCQ could or even might be effective against COVID-19. This is exactly what tens of trials and many more scientific studies are trying to address now. So, that’s a red herring.

                  However, it is ludicrous to say that it is effective and tout as some kind of magic bullet. Doesn’t matter who says is although some should know better. So, that’s a red herring too.

                  Snake oil salesmen are always preying on the desperate, e.g. terminal cancer patients; SSDD.

                  Anyway, the OP was about Trump and bleach. Feel free to defend either or both, if you must.

                • lprent

                  I simply do not understand why it was acceptable to the pharmacological experts here on TS for hydroxychloroquine to have been used off label as a treatment for lupus and the like but somehow it is simply ludicrous to even suggest trying it for Covid 19.

                  There is a probability balance. Most (and probably all) treatments have a probability of a adverse effect. So the first thing you have to show is that at the very least the probability of adverse effects is matched with a better probability of a beneficial effect.

                  The most common way of proving either is to do final testing between two populations, one receiving a placebo and the other a treatment at some level. I’ll skip the mechanics of how people decide the level apart from pointing out that it tends to waste a lot of cells and test animals.

                  Hydroxychloroquine has a known and tested adverse effect of causing arrhythmia in heart function and the types of heart attacks that causes. The probability is (by the sounds of it) pretty high. And even the small trial that was referenced by that murderous PR dickhead Sean Hannity only had a reported 100% no side-effect because the three people who had ICU level adverse effects from the hydroxychloroquine were removed from the trial. This was after the trial victims had been selected against the known probabilities of getting that adverse effect. Look it up – that was reported weeks ago.

                  That trial also only showed a minor probability of it providing a beneficial effect against covid-19.

                  It is used by lupus and other kinds of afflictions because there has been a demonstrated via robust and repeated testing of strong probability of a beneficial effect that outweighs the bad effects.

                  But going off and using it in a situation where the probabilities aren’t known is tantamount to just killing some people without a good reason. With the SARS experiments they were likely to have been using it as a last ditch defense on teh basis that the probabilities of survival from the infection were so low that any increased risk from a unproven treatment were outweighed.

                  However that wasn’t the usage that Hannity or Trump were suggesting that when it should be used.

                  Does that help explain why there is a quite a lot of dislike here and just about everywhere amongst people who have medical or science based backgrounds of the way that Hydroxychloroquine was touted as a no risk cure? I can tell you as a former army medic my first instinct when I saw Trump promoting it and saying ‘where the harm’ was to think that he’d be the best test subject himself. However I suspect that he’d have orders for him to never get near the stuff – from what I understand he’d be high on the risk factors for it to cause arrhythmia.

                  Incidentally my mother had a bad case of arrhythmia between the ventricles of her heart for many years. I wouldn’t recommend it for anyone if they want to have a good life. Eventually it got bad enough that the probabilities favoured a radical treatment. They went into the heart and fried the timing nerves in one ventricle to removed the bad time signal. She was lucky enough to recover ok and got a quite a few more good years from it with some issues. It may have eventually killed her indirectly from the drug cocktail that was required to maintain function.

                  But that is part of the probability tradeoffs as well. As a former nurse, she went into that with her eyes wide open about the risks.

              • Incognito

                Let me simplify it for you:

                1. Did you look at the Barometer in the link?
                2. Do you think HCQ treatment is effective against COVID-19?
                3. What is connection between HCQ and bleach in the OP?
                4. Do you think bleach or UV treatments are effective against COVID-19?
                5. Why did you post that link?

                None of these questions requires a textbook or expert knowledge so that’s a red herring. Only Q5 is an open question but please keep it under 280 characters if you can.

            • bill

              Sunshine being the best disinfectant Incognito – so of course we should mainline a facsimile of the stuff! 🙂

          • Alice Tectonite

            Hydroxychloroquine is being touted as a possible COVID-19 treatment largely based on a single study: Gautret et al (2020). Despite passing peer review, serious concerns have since been raised about the content, ethics and peer review process (ISAC & Elsevier 2020). Gautret et al (2020) is now undergoing further independent peer review. Magagnoli et al (in review) (& references therein) raise doubts as to the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine. Quoting their conclusion:

            In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.

            Not conclusive, but an indication it should not be being rolled out all over the place. (Also Gautret et al (2020) describe their results as 'preliminary' in their discussion, which suggests treat with caution…)


            • Rosemary McDonald

              Seems your search resulted in papers only published/released for discussion in the last few months.

              Look back further.😉

              • Alice Tectonite

                Yeah, probably could've worded that better. The Gautret et al paper seems to have been/is influential in the hyping going on. Basically the small scale studies aren't conclusive either way and need the results of larger trials now underway. The paper in review hints at some potential problems, but again a small sample. Agree that trials are not being done for no reason and have some basis in previous work.

                Anyway, doing too much research starts to look like work (read plenty of science papers usually, just not medical ones). Don't have the background for the nitty gritty detail of medical stuff either (I'm in quite a different field).

      • joe90 8.1.2

        A data-mining outfit that makes it's living flogging information to big pharma?

        Say it ain't so!


        In 2011, a member of the SERMO team, Thomas Rhines, tweeted that as well as research, SERMO “listen[s] to the physicians’ conversations to mine business and competitive intel”. SERMO users took to Twitter voicing their surprise and outrage.

        Dr Mark Ryan, a US doctor based in Richmond, Virginia, said on Twitter: “@SermoTeam could have been useful; lack of moderation/professional behaviour limits appeal; data mining kills it for me.”

        Other doctors also went online to voice their concerns with SERMO’s conversation mining, with New York doctor Jay Parkinson writing on his blog: “They are spreading their propaganda and spying on us in order to sell more me-too drugs … I already am a member but I don’t use it because I feel like some filthy voyeur is watching me.

      • Andre 8.1.3

        Yo maui, what do you think of the idea of injecting disinfectant? Wanna try it yourself next time you get sick?

        What do think of the president of the US suggesting that as something to be seriously considered? As part of a nationally televised live briefing on the status of a pandemic that has killed tens of thousands of his citizens he is supposed to keep safe, no less.

  7. weka 9

    I'm starting to wonder if there's a kind of social contagion of stupid. There's some evidence to suggest people's ability to use imagination is declining in recent decades. That coupled with stress and the general unraveling of civil society in places is a potent mix, especially for those in positions of power. Contagion might not be the right word, more like a cognitive/cultural syndrome that arises from specific conditions.

    • joe90 9.1

      Something to consider.

      Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

      ― Jean Paul-Sartre

      • Incognito 9.1.1


      • Morrissey 9.1.2

        Very good quote, Joe, and true. Exactly the same things apply to those who make false accusations of anti-Semitism: people like Simon Bridges, who claimed that Jacinda Ardern's government was "anti-Semitic" because we did not send a representative to the Israeli-organized Holocaust Remembrance activites in Jerusalem a few months ago.

  8. Rosemary McDonald 10

    After the Yanks elected Reagan…US politics became a joke.

    Having said that, we managed to re elect Clarke, and Key…despite evidence that no good would come of it.

    Trump's a twat. If only folks would ignore him.

    (Hardly a cinematic masterpiece, but "Idiocracy " must surely be compulsory Lockdown viewing?)

    • Mike Campbell 10.1

      Thanks for showing we have morons in NZ to 🙁

      • In Vino 10.1.1


        Hint – if you are going to gratuitously insult someone's intelligence, you should try to get your own elementary spelling correct.

  9. Incognito 11

    Trump is not just science illiterate and proud of it, wearing it like a badge of honour. He’s openly anti-science, just like Stephen Harper in Canada, because it doesn’t suit his narrative.

    For Trump, everything is binary, and he creates a leverage-advantage point from everything that doesn’t work in his favour, like a martial arts master uses their opponent’s momentum to imbalance and neutralise them. Trump pushes off against resistance against him; it makes him stronger. I don’t even think he does it consciously, that he thinks much about it. It is almost instinctive behaviour with him. And he loves it!

    • Rosemary McDonald 11.1

      "…makes him stronger. "

      So, there's a very strange kind of genius in his idiocy?

      However, I honestly do think that if Trump fronted the press mob tomorrow and declared that "…eating fresh fruit and vegetables will help support your immune system. " sales of the same would plummet within hours.

      The entire nation would become exclusively carnivorous.

  10. Cinny 12

    The most irresponsible leader 'murica has ever had.

  11. mac1 13

    The man has just said he was being 'sarcastic' according to RNZ midday news.. He can't even withdraw a statement without trying to save face.

    The old Ron Ziegler line in 1973 as Nixon's press secretary almost would have been preferable. "This is the operative statement. The others are inoperative."

  12. joe90 14

    Much is being made of Dr Birx’s body language, but I’m sitting here wondering why the fuck she doesn’t get up and walk out

    I suspect Dr Birx is a Granfalloon.

    And ever since, slathering on the "independent" clown make-up t escape accountability for all the monstrous shit they routinely say and do has been the average Republican's all-occasion go-to move, which is why it will also come as no surprise that Republican COVIDIOTS are trying to run the same old play.


    So I'll end this post the same way I ended my column from 2009:

    Most newly minted “independents” seem to be little more than Republicans who are fleeing the scene of their crime, but at the same time still desperately want believe in the inerrant wisdom of Rush Limbaugh. They are completely incapable of facing the horrifying reality that they have gotten every single major political opinion and decision of their adult lives completely wrong, so instead they double-down on their hatred of women and/or gays and/or brown people and/or Liberals, and blame them for the miserable fuckpit their leaders and their policies have made of their lives and futures.

    Like German soldiers after the fall of Berlin, they have stopped running away from the catastrophe they created only long enough to burn their uniforms…

    • Incognito 14.1

      I suspect it is some warped version of the Peter Principle in which career professionals and experts find themselves thrust into a place/position that can only be described as ‘being in the wrong place at the wrong time’. Some would say similar things about ‘Uncle Ashley’ as said about Dr Birx or Dr Fauci, for that matter.

      • McFlock 14.1.1

        More like workplace Darwinism – the people most suited to that workplace are the ones who spent decades in the field as specialists but can still listen to the bullshit that comes out of his mouth without openly mocking him or having an urge to correct his lethal stupidity.

        I suggest that NZ's caseload at least partially reflects some level of competence in the leadership, including Bloomfield.

        • Incognito

          Fair comment, but to paraphrase Lynn, it is mostly (due to) luck or bad luck.

          • McFlock

            Mostly. And yet we have very few bleach or fishtank-cleaner poisonings after our leader does a press conference.

  13. joe90 15

    A cruel, heartless, soulless regime.

    But Democrats!

    White House officials are hotly debating whether and how to propose a “liability shield” that would prevent businesses from being sued by customers who contract the coronavirus, according to four people aware of the internal planning effort, as the administration seeks to encourage businesses to reopen without fear of being hit by lawsuits.

    Attorneys in the White House Counsel’s Office are reviewing the matter, but some administration officials have raised objections to the idea, including whether it would expose the federal government to legal claims, according to two of the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. Some White House advisers also have expressed concern that the plan might provoke a political firestorm. (WaPo)

  14. Foreign waka 16

    The leader of the "free" (really?) world advises to inject disinfect.

    What concerns me is, that the people of the US might actually believe him. A very scary thought as it would mean some kind of evolutionary backward step has happened right in front of the world community.

    Will disinfectant be getting short on supply? If so, its a true measure of the situation.

  15. Ad 17

    I am looking forward to President Biden putting the entire Trump family and most of Donald's family on trial and in jail.

    The deaths of 52,000 people (and counting) are on his hands through utter mismanagement.

    There must be a special category of criminal negligence for his mismanagement.

    • McFlock 17.1

      It's a lovely thought, but so many variables along the way – starting with a Biden victory.

    • Andre 17.2

      I just can't see Biden having any part of attempting to hold Oranga bin Frauden accountable. It would just be too politically divisive. Biden's whole brand is built on empathy and bringing people together and working with all sides and warm fuzzies like that.

      New York state on the other hand …

  16. Ad 18

    Great to see COVID-19 protesters piling body bags outside of the Washington DC Trump International Hotel. Sure it's only a symbol and he doesn't own it ,but symbols have punch if displayed well.

    At 52,000 and rising the main should be in jail.

  17. A 19

    This is not what he said. And FYI it's one good reason not to donate to any media that reports it this way.

    Info correcting this is being scrubbed from the web, including a tweet I sent out. Unfreaking believable.

    • Andre 19.1

      Oh indeed?

      Care to advise us of exactly where the inaccuracy is, and what should be in its place?

      Are you giving us that link as an example of allegedly accurate or allegedly inaccurate reporting?

    • weka 19.2

      "This is not what he said"

      What is not what he said? There are two videos showing what he said. If the Independent quotes are inaccurate, please correct with back up.

    • Cinny 19.3

      Supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it.

      And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right?

      And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute.

      And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me.

  18. infused 21

    might want to see the original vs edited text

  19. adam 22

    Why day in day out is it a parade on trump?

    Yet you are attacked here constantly if you point what is fundamentally wrong with a system which invest so much power, effort and money fighting wars at the expense of their own citizens. A system which has handed a muppet more power than King George the Third. A government which has no effective opposition, and when asked gives out every cent to the muppet to fight wars.

    Finally, why are there no questions asked of the whole elite class who have failed utterly. They are unfit to rule, and moreover unfit to even be part of civil society.

    To weka, have a look at this earlier muppet that the US threw up in the role of president. James Buchanan he still has the 620,000 deaths on his hands, so trump is still trailing this muppet. Learn some history, and get some perspective the muppet trump is one in a long muppets who have held a executive position – the problem now is the US constitution has lost much of its power and the person in that executive position can now kill on a wim.

    • weka 22.1

      1. it's not a parade day in and day out of Trump. There's only two posts under that category for April.

      2. it's not the system analysis that is the problem, it's the 'Trump's not so bad' framing.

      3. I have class analysis. I disagree with pretty much everyone across the political spectrum at some point. In terms of your arguments, I find the inability to engage with critique of your own politics problematic. I get that you are outnumbered here by the centre-lefties, but I'm not that and I still find it hard to engage with what you bring here because of how you bring it. My primary interest is in politics outside the L/R spectrum, including how to move past macho politics at the commentariat level. I am also interested in the rise of fascism globally. I have no doubt that your politics and my politics intersect in important and interesting ways that could be the basis of a useful conversation. I'm not going to bother if it's antagonistic though, which is probably why you get left to argue with the commenters who do want an antagonistic fight. I'm also reluctant to engage with people who are convinced they are right and others are wrong.

      4. Please don't tell me what to do, and don't patronise me. I know that Trump is part of a bigger system, and I have an analysis of that too. The post isn't about that though, it's about something else that you haven't even acknowledged in your comment, let alone addressed.

      If you have a problem with the content of this site, my suggestion is you write a guest post. If you can write one that doesn't flame the commentariat (ie focus on the politics you are expressing here about the US situation rather than attacking lefties), I will put it up and moderate the comments to keep the conversation reasonable.

  20. RedLogix 23

    The thing I hate about these threads is that eventually I go away and listen to what Trump actually said and find myself defending something I really don't want to.

    At no point did Trump suggest "injecting with bleach" as the title of the OP claims.

    The context he was clearly speaking in (as clearly as he ever gets) was the possible use of powerful UV light used to 'disinfect' the body from this virus. And apparently this a reasonable type of treatment being investigated.

    Being the chaotic goat of a man he is however, his verbal grammar was ambiguous and this has been exploited to the max.

    Zero credibility points all round.

    • Andre 23.1

      The exact words that Dim Dotardashian used were “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning,”

      A fuller exploration of the context:

      So no, Odious Maximus did not use the exact words "inject bleach". He suggested disinfectant, a broad group of chemicals which includes bleach. He did suggest applying it "by injection inside". So "inject bleach" is just a single example of a broad spectrum of ways of administering disinfectant internally that could be reasonably inferred from Danger Yam's comment. And that entire broad spectrum is dangerous and stupid. We can be confident this part of his rambling was about chemicals, because it follows on from a briefing he had just received about the effectiveness of chemicals on hard surfaces.

      If there were more sophisticated thoughts behind the comment, or nuance that failed to get expressed, it's interesting the clean-up effort didn't attempt that route. Press Secretary MaccaNinny tried to gaslight that Prima Donald was all about getting people to consult with their doctor and that the press took his comments out of context (narrator: he wasn't and they didn't), and was promptly chopped off at the knees by COVID Orange trying to bullshit that he was being sarcastic (narrator: he wasn't).

      • McFlock 23.1.1

        Another check on it.

        Dolt45 was attempting to summarise what he remembered from the briefing immediately prior, which included heat, light, bleach, and alcohol. Bless his polyester socks.

      • RedLogix 23.1.2

        Quote the entire context and it's clear he's got UV 'disinfection' in mind. A much more reasonable idea … if totally unproven.

        So "inject bleach" is just a single example of a broad spectrum of ways of administering disinfectant internally that could be reasonably inferred from Danger Yam's comment.

        Yes he's muddled as usual, he's not making it clear exactly what form of treatment he's referring to at any instant. But the claim in the OP title is that he said the words "inject with bleach". That's clearly a highly selective distortion; 'reasonably inferred' my arse.

        No need for transcripts that can be selectively quoted, the video is readily available. Watch the few relevant minutes and you have the complete picture.

        • Andre

          And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right?

          And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute.

          And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me.

          "And then I see the disinfectant" is clearly a move on from light to his next topic of chemical disinfectant. Which was also a topic in the briefing he had just been given by Bryan.

          • RedLogix

            I've seen this happen in my own field over and again when someone starts trying to convey or summarise ideas they're not expert with. They'll make context ambiguities like this quite unintentionally, especially when they're talking without structured notes.

            Yes he's got it muddled; but at no point does he use the words "Inject with bleach". Here's the video I listened to:


            [“Yes he’s got it muddled; but at no point does he use the words “Inject with bleach””

            At no point did I put those words in quotation marks. The title is not a quote of Trump. It’s clear enough in the post what he said (both vid and MSM quoting), and my and many other people’s interpretation is clear too. People are free to argue the minutiae over what Trump meant, they can even defend Trump if they feel that’s appropriate given what the post was about, but it’s not ok to misrepresent my words or intention – weka]

            • weka

              mod note for you Red.

            • RedLogix

              OK so having established that Trump never said those words, nor even so much as used the word 'bleach' even, then it's clear that this entire post is based on an interpretation of what he may or may not have meant.

              Having watched the video I'd say that even Trump wasn't clear in his own mind what he was trying to say at that moment.

              Here's an ironic thought. What if by some crazy chance the idea of 'injecting' strong UV light (directly into the windpipe or lungs) turned out to be a useful 'disinfection' treatment? What would we have to say to that I wonder?

              People make mistakes all the time, especially when they're extemporising. Trump more often than most because his speech is typically more chaotic and unstructured than most politicians. Yes the ambiguity rated a correction; but did it rate the global shit-kicking the liberal left has visited on it?

              And in what kind of light does it cast us?

              • weka

                "then it's clear that this entire post is based on an interpretation of what he may or may not have meant."

                No, it's not. The only way you will ever know what I was intending, and what I was thinking when I wrote the post, is if you ask. You're not the only one that has misunderstood the post, but I don't see the point in attributing your own mistaken interpretation of my post while trying to assert something about people mistaking Trump's words.

                • RedLogix

                  From your OP:

                  This is worth noting because ridiculing these people is about as effective as ridiculing redneck Trump voters and calling them deplorables. Many in the alt health crowd should be progressive/left wing but are being radicalised to the alt right.

                  Interesting, and I confess I missed that on first scanning. On reflection this is not too far from my own reaction to the comment thread here. Too many people using Trump's weak scientific understanding to ridicule and mock him. Which as you say serves all the wrong purposes.

                  As I said at the outset, I hate these kinds of threads and stayed away from it yesterday because I personally loath threads that are little more than lefties piling on in some weird virtue signalling ritual.

                  • arkie

                    because I personally loath threads that are little more than lefties piling on in some weird virtue signalling ritual.

                    You're not obligated to be advocatus diaboli in such situations.

                  • weka

                    My suggestion is that you reread the post carefully, because most of what I've seen you say here about it is off. As I said, you're not the only person that has missed what I was talking about, but I have no doubt you're not the only person who didn't read it properly either. Some if it might be too subtle, but that's the point of asking for clarification.

                    How any of us engage with the commentariat is another matter.

                  • KJT

                    One of the good things about New Zealand culture, in my view, is how quickly we call BS, on pretentious stupidity, arrogance, and also ignorance..

                    The USA'ians with their exaggerated deference for wealth, and power, tend not to do that to their, "betters".

                    Call it "Piling on", if you like.

                    Even National supporters are getting pissed with Bridges tone deaf stupidity. Rightly so.

                    On ships and aircraft we have courses on "questioning your superiors actions" if you think they may be wrong. Necessary in many cultures because of their tradition of deference to authority. Not often a problem with New Zealanders. We are good at teamwork and mutual decision making.

                    Too much a power gap, between the person in charge and their subordinates, with too much authority given to one person, is a frequent cause of air and sea accidents.

                    Definitely the problem with Trump and his enablers, as we see, here.

                    • RedLogix

                      Questioning, challenging is one thing. It's formally called "Crew Resource Management"

                      CRM training encompasses a wide range of knowledge, skills, and attitudes including communications, situational awareness, problem solving, decision making, and teamwork; together with all the attendant sub-disciplines which each of these areas entails. CRM can be defined as a system which utilises resources to promote safety within the workplace.

                      CRM is concerned with the cognitive and interpersonal skills needed to manage resources within an organized system, not so much with the technical knowledge and skills required to operate equipment. In this context, cognitive skills are defined as the mental processes used for gaining and maintaining situational awareness, for solving problems and for making decisions. Interpersonal skills are regarded as communications and a range of behavioral activities associated with teamwork. In many operational systems as in other walks of life, skill areas often overlap with each other, and they also overlap with the required technical skills. Furthermore, they are not confined to multi-crew craft or equipment, but also relate to single operator equipment or craft as they invariably need to interface with other craft or equipment and various other support agencies in order to complete a mission successfully.

                      Does that read like the liberal media reaction? Nuanced and skillful? Or did we just get the 'inject with bleach version'?

                      Because putting words into the skipper's mouth, assuming worst possible literal interpretations of every misstep, and then openly sneering and mocking … is not the same thing as CRM at all.

                      On most yachts it would get you brusquely dropped off at the first available pier.

                    • KJT

                      If the Master, or senior pilot, was an F wit, like Trump, too right, in New Zealand he would get called out and ridiculed, rightly so.

                      He wouldn't last 5 minutes with a Kiwi ships crew.

                      They simply wouldn't put up with officers, that dangerous.

                    • KJT

                      Too be fair to the Yanks, a tool pusher or barge Master on the rig, that was that much of a loose cannon, would have probably had a tensioner pulley dropped on his head.

        • KJT

          Not unproven at all. Used in water treatment plants already.

          And in disinfection buses and public transport in at least one Asian country, for Covid.

 See about UVC.

          However it is as hazardous to humans if applied internally or externally, as it is to bugs.

          Trump, obviously got the briefing mixed up..

          • Andre

            My first thought when I heard Adderolf Covitler's comments was: when are we going to hear reports of gullible idiots thinking they can treat themselves by stuffing UV LED strip lights up their nose to go down their windpipes and into their lungs?

            • RedLogix

              If that was your "first thought", then may I politely suggest you've gotten into the bad habit of reflexively interpreting everything he says in the craziest manner possible.

              • Andre

                I've had that habit since the early 90s when I was living in Philadelphia and Donnie Dingleberry was merely a regional affliction, ostentatiously stiffing contractors, defrauding investors, and generally just being the worst kind of despicable garbage wearing a human skinsuit possibly imaginable.

                Every time news came out of one of his fresh acts of loathsomeness that ruined the lives of ordinary people, I was left wondering how the hell people failed to do even the most minimal due diligence before getting taken in by him.

                • KJT

                  Did myself the disservice of watching his TV, show a couple of times.

                  His ideas on what made a good manager, something else I've bothered to study, were farcical, bordering on comic.

                  Only someone who started with a large fortune, big enough to be surrounded with greedy sycophants, could get away with that degree of self delusion.

                  I like to think that in New Zealand, someone would have said. "You’re full of it".

          • RedLogix

            However it is as hazardous to humans if applied internally or externally, as it is to bugs.

            Yes UV is hazardous in excessive dosages, but in small doses humans rely on it to produce Vitamin D.

            The windpipe is really just an extension of our external skin into our lungs. It's not unreasonable to explore the idea that it might tolerate some short exposure to UV with the expectation that virus's might be killed on or close to the surface, without chronic damage to the windpipe itself.

            I can think of all kinds of reasons why this idea might turn out to be a bad one, but the worst possible reason would be 'that Trump said it first'.

            • KJT

              You didn't really bother to read what i put there, did you.

              UVC, which is used for disinfection, is not a part of the suns radiation we are normally exposed to.

              Experience has shown, as a general rule, if "Trump says it" it is either garbled BS, or outright lies.

              • RedLogix

                Sighs. Yes I actually ran several large water supply UVC plants for some years; just because I don't overlay technical stuff onto every comment doesn't mean I'm unaware of it.

                But if you really want some readable details.


                • KJT

                  In other words you know enough, not to be misleading about UV…..?

                  • RedLogix

                    If you read the article it points out … as I did … that there are any number of reasons to be skeptical and cautious about using UV internally for this purpose, but it doesn't rule it out either. More research needed.

                    After all it's not entirely obvious that introducing radioactive materials into the body would help attack cancer either, but with research and refinement it has become one of our main tools against it.

                    • KJT

                      My issue is generalising about things, that should be specifically spelt out.

                      As you have expertise in the area, you are obviously capable of it.

                      Otherwise we end up, as is happening now, people selling "UV sterilisers", which are the wrong frequency altogether, about as effective as shining a torch on it, and, if they were the correct ones, would be too hazardous to use.

                    • RedLogix

                      Maybe it should have been clear that I was not generally endorsing random UV treatment methods where I said:

                      I can think of all kinds of reasons why this idea might turn out to be a bad one, but the worst possible reason would be 'that Trump said it first'.

                      You are right maybe I could have spelled it out in more detail, but then again I find many people misread longer qualified comments just as readily as they do short pithy ones.

    • He said it was sarcasm not a misunderstanding. He says he said it?

    • solkta 23.3

      Amazing that you know this when Trump doesn't. The next day he tried to claim it was sarcasm but clear he was that he was talking about disinfectant:

      But i was asking a sarcastic — and a very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside.

      On video here:

      • RedLogix 23.3.1

        I've seen this kind of fucked up behaviour over and again. Someone says something ambiguous or muddled and everyone leaps to the worst possible interpretation and then uses this for a massive shit-kicking pile-on.

        And then the left likes to pretend it's all for kindness, empathy and inclusiveness.

        • solkta

          I've seen this kind of fucked up behaviour over and again. Someone provides clear evidence that you are wrong but rather than address that evidence you just double down.

          • RedLogix

            And here's the kind inclusive empathy loving leftie running in for the shit kicking as usual. Listen to the video, it's obvious he's not quite gotten his head around something he's not an expert on. He's a bit hesitant and searching for the words as he says them.

            Yes he's clearly been ambiguous and inaccurate. Pretty much like everyone is. Yes it rated a correction, it didn’t rate a global gloat session.

            • KJT

              He is the president, FFS, it is his job, to give clear and accurate information during a disaster.

              The US worship of rich dicks, means no one has the guts to challenge him.

              "Garbled messages" are killing people.

              And you are concerned about being nasty to the killer?

            • solkta

              Why can't you just admit when you are wrong? Funny how you are just like Trump in this regard.

              You don't need to be an expert to know not to put disinfectant in your body.

              He has said something ridiculous and then told an obvious lie to try and cover the fact.

              • RedLogix

                I've made it 100% clear Trump was being ambiguous and unclear. His words can be reasonably interpreted in a number of ways, some more likely than others. But it's hard to tell because frankly I don't think Trump quite knew what he was trying to say at that moment.

                But as you say "you don't need to be an expert to know not to put disinfectant in your body" then maybe it's also reasonable to allocate a pretty low probability that this was what he meant.

                • Cinny

                  The thing is some will take what he says as gospel and start shining UV lights into their orifices or trying to 'disinfect' their bodies from the inside out with whatever means is available.

                  He is the President of the USA giving the American people updates during a pandemic, it's crucial he chooses the correct words.

                • solkta

                  Oh, so now you are saying this:

                  I've made it 100% clear Trump was being ambiguous and unclear.

                  But you started by saying this:

                  The context he was clearly speaking in (as clearly as he ever gets) was the possible use of powerful UV light used to 'disinfect' the body from this virus. And apparently this a reasonable type of treatment being investigated.

                  So you have moved from clearly to ambiguous but you see no need to acknowledge that you were wrong.

                  • RedLogix

                    Well when I first watched the video the "UV disinfection" context was the one that first came to my mind. That was the 'least unclear' interpretation to me, even if as usual Trump was being muddled about it.

                    I can offer no explanation as to why so many other people, who all apparently know that putting bleach into the body is a bad idea, would immediately firmly conclude this was what the President was advising.

                    • Sacha

                      Because he said it. You might want to reflect on why your first instinct is to defend the guy. Look at the company you're keeping.

                    • solkta

                      So when you said it was clear that was not what you actually thought? Now you say ambiguous even though Trump himself clarified that he WAS talking about disinfectant, but being sarcastic, when asked about it at the press conference the next day.

                      Trump has said many idiotic things so when he says something idiotic people don't assume that he has misspoken.

                      I'm going to leave it there as you are obviously just wasting words. You can come back with the last word now.

        • Incognito

          Ambiguity, unclear, confusion, imprecise, inaccurate, poorly expressed thoughts and arguments, illogical arguments, you name it, often compounded by not making sufficient distinction between fact and opinion. None of it is conducive to robust discussion and it often leads to robust shit-piling and willy-waving contests.

          When pointed out to them, many a commenter balks at the idea that they could do better and lift their game. Some become quite shitty, in fact. Very few take the hint and improve. Of course, no one is as bad as Simon, Donald, Boris, or whichever ‘example’ they would prefer to compare themselves with. It is too easy (!) to feel superior, become smug, then comment here, feel superior, and be smug.

          Common sense and science can be ‘mortal enemies’.

  21. joe90 24

    They knew how the exchange would be parsed.

    • weka 24.1

      wait, they first transcribed her as saying it is a treatment?

      • joe90 24.1.1

        I read it as they made out in the first transcript that Birx supported the use of bleach and UV as a treatment and when they realised just how absurd it was they went with not as a treatment.

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  • The media were given a little list and hastened to pick out Fast Track prospects – but the Treaty ...
     Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for “fast track” consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 hours ago
  • Just trying to stay upright
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 hours ago
  • “Unprecedented”
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 hours ago
  • Bryce Edwards: Time for “Fast-Track Watch”
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    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    5 hours ago
  • Gordon Campbell on fast track powers, media woes and the Tiktok ban
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    5 hours ago
  • The Government’s new fast-track invitation to corruption
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    Point of OrderBy gadams1000
    6 hours ago
  • Maori push for parallel government structures
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    7 hours ago
  • An announcement about an announcement
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 hours ago
  • All the Green Tech in China.
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    10 hours ago
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    11 hours ago
  • Bernard’s pick ‘n’ mix of the news links at 7:16am on Monday, April 22
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  • The Kaka’s diary for the week to April 29 and beyond
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    14 hours ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #16
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    20 hours ago
  • Bryce Edwards: The Government’s new fast-track invitation to corruption
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    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    1 day ago
  • Thank you
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • Determining the Engine Type in Your Car
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    2 days ago
  • How to Become a Race Car Driver: A Comprehensive Guide
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    2 days ago
  • How Many Cars Are There in the World in 2023? An Exploration of Global Automotive Statistics
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    2 days ago
  • How Long Does It Take for Car Inspection?
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    2 days ago
  • Who Makes Mazda Cars?
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  • How Often to Replace Your Car Battery A Comprehensive Guide
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    2 days ago
  • Can You Register a Car Without a License?
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  • Mazda: A Comprehensive Evaluation of Reliability, Value, and Performance
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  • What Are Struts on a Car?
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  • How Long Does It Take to Build a Computer?
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  • How to Put Your Computer to Sleep
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  • What is Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT)?
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  • How Are Computers Made?
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  • How to Add Voice Memos from iPhone to Computer
    Voice Memos is a convenient app on your iPhone that allows you to quickly record and store audio snippets. These recordings can be useful for a variety of purposes, such as taking notes, capturing ideas, or recording interviews. While you can listen to your voice memos on your iPhone, you ...
    2 days ago
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    2 days ago
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    2 days ago
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    2 days ago
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  • Bryce Edwards: Serious populist discontent is bubbling up in New Zealand
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    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 days ago
  • How to Take a Screenshot on an Asus Laptop A Comprehensive Guide with Detailed Instructions and Illu...
    In today’s digital world, screenshots have become an indispensable tool for communication and documentation. Whether you need to capture an important email, preserve a website page, or share an error message, screenshots allow you to quickly and easily preserve digital information. If you’re an Asus laptop user, there are several ...
    2 days ago
  • How to Factory Reset Gateway Laptop A Comprehensive Guide
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    2 days ago
  • The Folly Of Impermanence.
    You talking about me?  The neoliberal denigration of the past was nowhere more unrelenting than in its depiction of the public service. The Post Office and the Railways were held up as being both irremediably inefficient and scandalously over-manned. Playwright Roger Hall’s “Glide Time” caricatures were presented as accurate depictions of ...
    2 days ago
  • A crisis of ambition
    Roger Partridge  writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • Have 308 people in the Education Ministry’s Curriculum Development Team spent over $100m on a 60-p...
    Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago
  • 'This bill is dangerous for the environment and our democracy'
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • The Bank of our Tamariki and Mokopuna.
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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • The worth of it all
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • What is the Hardest Sport in the World?
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    3 days ago
  • What is the Most Expensive Sport?
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  • Pickleball On the Cusp of Olympic Glory
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  • The Origin and Evolution of Soccer Unveiling the Genius Behind the World’s Most Popular Sport
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  • Can You Jump a Car in the Rain? Safety Precautions and Essential Steps
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  • Can taxpayers be confident PIJF cash was spent wisely?
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    Point of OrderBy gadams1000
    3 days ago
  • EGU2024 – An intense week of joining sessions virtually
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    3 days ago
  • Submission on “Fast Track Approvals Bill”
    The following was my submission made on the “Fast Track Approvals Bill”. This potential law will give three Ministers unchecked powers, un-paralled since the days of Robert Muldoon’s “Think Big” projects.The submission is written a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it’s irreverent because the FTAB is in itself not worthy of respect. ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • The Case for a Universal Family Benefit
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    PunditBy Brian Easton
    3 days ago
  • A who’s who of New Zealand’s dodgiest companies
    Submissions on National's corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law are due today (have you submitted?), and just hours before they close, Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop has been forced to release the list of companies he invited to apply. I've spent the last hour going through it in an epic thread of bleats, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • On Lee’s watch, Economic Development seems to be stuck on scoring points from promoting sporting e...
    Buzz from the Beehive A few days ago, Point of Order suggested the media must be musing “on why Melissa is mute”. Our article reported that people working in the beleaguered media industry have cause to yearn for a minister as busy as Melissa Lee’s ministerial colleagues and we drew ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand has never been closed for business
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Stop the panic – we’ve been here before
    Jack Vowles writes – New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’.  ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Melissa Lee and the media: ending the quest
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    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to April 19
    TL;DR: The podcast above features co-hosts and , along with regular guests Robert Patman on Gaza and AUKUS II, and on climate change.The six things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • The ‘Humpty Dumpty’ end result of dismantling our environmental protections
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Nicola's Salad Days.
    I like to keep an eye on what’s happening in places like the UK, the US, and over the ditch with our good mates the Aussies. Let’s call them AUKUS, for want of a better collective term. More on that in a bit.It used to be, not long ago, that ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Study sees climate change baking in 19% lower global income by 2050
    TL;DR: The global economy will be one fifth smaller than it would have otherwise been in 2050 as a result of climate damage, according to a new study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) and published in the journal Nature. (See more detail and analysis below, and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-April-2024
    It’s Friday again. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week on Greater Auckland On Tuesday Matt covered at the government looking into a long tunnel for Wellington. On Wednesday we ran a post from Oscar Simms on some lessons from Texas. AT’s ...
    3 days ago
  • Jack Vowles: Stop the panic – we’ve been here before
    New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’.  The data is from February this ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Clearing up confusion (or trying to)
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters is understood to be planning a major speech within the next fortnight to clear up the confusion over whether or not New Zealand might join the AUKUS submarine project. So far, there have been conflicting signals from the Government. RNZ reported the Prime Minister yesterday in ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • How to Retrieve Deleted Call Log iPhone Without Computer
    How to Retrieve Deleted Call Log on iPhone Without a Computer: A StepbyStep Guide Losing your iPhone call history can be frustrating, especially when you need to find a specific number or recall an important conversation. But before you panic, know that there are ways to retrieve deleted call logs on your iPhone, even without a computer. This guide will explore various methods, ranging from simple checks to utilizing iCloud backups and thirdparty applications. So, lets dive in and recover those lost calls! 1. Check Recently Deleted Folder: Apple understands that accidental deletions happen. Thats why they introduced the Recently Deleted folder for various apps, including the Phone app. This folder acts as a safety net, storing deleted call logs for up to 30 days before permanently erasing them. Heres how to check it: Open the Phone app on your iPhone. Tap on the Recents tab at the bottom. Scroll to the top and tap on Edit. Select Show Recently Deleted. Browse the list to find the call logs you want to recover. Tap on the desired call log and choose Recover to restore it to your call history. 2. Restore from iCloud Backup: If you regularly back up your iPhone to iCloud, you might be able to retrieve your deleted call log from a previous backup. However, keep in mind that this process will restore your entire phone to the state it was in at the time of the backup, potentially erasing any data added since then. Heres how to restore from an iCloud backup: Go to Settings > General > Reset. Choose Erase All Content and Settings. Follow the onscreen instructions. Your iPhone will restart and show the initial setup screen. Choose Restore from iCloud Backup during the setup process. Select the relevant backup that contains your deleted call log. Wait for the restoration process to complete. 3. Explore ThirdParty Apps (with Caution): ...
    4 days ago
  • How to Factory Reset iPhone without Computer: A Comprehensive Guide to Restoring your Device
    Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs necessitate wiping your iPhone clean and starting anew. Whether you’re facing persistent software glitches, preparing to sell your device, or simply wanting a fresh start, knowing how to factory reset iPhone without a computer is a valuable skill. While using a computer with ...
    4 days ago
  • How to Call Someone on a Computer: A Guide to Voice and Video Communication in the Digital Age
    Gone are the days when communication was limited to landline phones and physical proximity. Today, computers have become powerful tools for connecting with people across the globe through voice and video calls. But with a plethora of applications and methods available, how to call someone on a computer might seem ...
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #16 2024
    Open access notables Glacial isostatic adjustment reduces past and future Arctic subsea permafrost, Creel et al., Nature Communications: Sea-level rise submerges terrestrial permafrost in the Arctic, turning it into subsea permafrost. Subsea permafrost underlies ~ 1.8 million km2 of Arctic continental shelf, with thicknesses in places exceeding 700 m. Sea-level variations over glacial-interglacial cycles control ...
    4 days ago
  • Where on a Computer is the Operating System Generally Stored? Delving into the Digital Home of your ...
    The operating system (OS) is the heart and soul of a computer, orchestrating every action and interaction between hardware and software. But have you ever wondered where on a computer is the operating system generally stored? The answer lies in the intricate dance between hardware and software components, particularly within ...
    4 days ago

  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order.  “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
    2 hours ago
  • Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facility
    Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
    4 hours ago
  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
    Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing  At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin    Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho    Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today.    I am delighted ...
    5 hours ago
  • Government to introduce revised Three Strikes law
    The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
    5 hours ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions.   “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says.    “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
    5 hours ago
  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
    New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today.   “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
    5 hours ago
  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
    Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale.  “It is good ...
    1 day ago
  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
    The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
    1 day ago
  • Trade relationship with China remains strong
    “China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says.   Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
    1 day ago
  • PM’s South East Asia mission does the business
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
    2 days ago
  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
    3 days ago
  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
    3 days ago
  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
    3 days ago
  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
    3 days ago
  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    3 days ago
  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    4 days ago
  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    4 days ago
  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    4 days ago
  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    4 days ago
  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    4 days ago
  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    4 days ago
  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    4 days ago
  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    5 days ago
  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    5 days ago
  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    5 days ago
  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    5 days ago
  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    5 days ago
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    5 days ago
  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    6 days ago
  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    6 days ago
  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    6 days ago
  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    7 days ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    7 days ago
  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    1 week ago
  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    1 week ago
  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    1 week ago
  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    1 week ago

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