- Date published:
8:02 am, August 31st, 2014 - 171 comments
Categories: accountability, blogs, Ethics, Media, newspapers, spin - Tags: #dirtypolitics, cameron slater, david fisher, dirty politics, fran o'sullivan, impossible dreams, jared savage, nicky hager, shayne currie, the herald
Key, Collins and the National government are not being brought down by a left-wing conspiracy, or by Whaledump, or Nicky Hager, or evil Leftie blogs, or any other desperate excuse. They are being brought down by we the people getting to see how they operate. They are being brought down by the dirty truth behind their smiling curtain.
It should have happened much earlier. The reason that it should have happened much earlier is that it is abundantly clear that a lot of people knew what was going on. People whose job it was to find out the truth and reveal it, but who instead played along with National’s game.
Herald Journalist David Fisher deserves credit for his brave mea culpa last week:
My history with Cameron Slater
…At some point after April 2012, Key went from blocking Slater to talking and texting with the blogger, and posing for photographs at his side.
It was also about this time I stopped dealing with Slater. Before then, as made clear in Nicky Hager’s book, I was speaking to Slater as a contact and source. …
Information has power. Those with the greatest access to information are those in power. Slater’s links inside National meant he had access to good information.
But as 2012 got underway, I began to wonder who was manipulating Slater and whether I was in turn being made to do another’s bidding. It caused a feeling of great unease. It’s not unusual for journalists to deal with people who have causes to push, or axes to grind. But when you can’t see who, ultimately, is pushing the cause or grinding the axe, you risk failing yourself and your readership.
I had been in the tent. It was a place where stories and story tips came easily – too easily. I stepped back and found myself outside the tent. … If you’re outside the tent, which is where I fetched up, it is cold and hard. This is what journalism should be. You should work for your readers, and work hard.
Other journalists have not been so brave. A few are mentioned in various Whaledump documents, including Garner and Gower. As developments yesterday made clear, The Herald is deeply compromised. The internally leaked email that precipitated the Collins dumping reads in part:
“I [Slater] am maintaining daily communications with Jared Savage at the Herald and he is passing information directly to me that the Herald can’t run and so are feeding to me to run on the blog in the meantime I have additional information flowing in via my tipline. That information will be drip fed into the media or via my blog. …
Cathy [Odgers] can outline her contact with Fran O’Sullivan separately. Basically though the Herald and other media are now picking up our lines…
Nothing to see? Business as usual? I guess that’s why The Herald ran with a panicked response trying to explain themselves. It wasn’t very reassuring. Here’s Savage:
I cut and pasted the content of some of those emails, to remove any possible identifying features, and forwarded them on to Slater. So information was shared, there was a bit of “horse trading”, we talked about developments as the story rolled along. This sometimes happens with journalistic sources and it’s naive to think otherwise. In total, I wrote six stories about the Feeley/champagne issue and Slater was not the source for any of them. I didn’t know that our conversations about Feeley were being shared with others, like PR man Carrick Graham – and that was naive of me to think otherwise.
Savage was beyond “naive”, and I wonder what other journalists would have to say about his description of their ethics. O’Sullivan is more from the Collins school of straight out denial:
The inference in Cameron Slater’s email that blogger and lawyer Cathy Odgers had any influence over that column is risible.
Apparently not Fran, because here you are in The Herald’s damage control piece. Speaking of which, here’s the Editor Shayne Currie:
Reporters will have conversations with contacts from all sides of the political spectrum every day – it’s our job to be fully aware of the source and their motivation, verify the information, and present it in a fair, accurate and balanced manner.
Whale Oil was one of a number of people Jared Savage spoke to as the issue rolled on, to find out what he knew. Some information would have been shared, but none of it, in our view, pivotal or relevant to our inquiries.
No doubt future sources will want to bear in mind that The Herald is happy to share their material with the most vile blog in the country.
Every careful observer of politics has known for a long time that Slater was running dirty tricks for the Nats. Plenty of media were inside Slater’s tent, as Fisher puts it, and many of them would have worked out, as Fisher did, what was going on. Why did it take a hacker and Hager’s book to blow the lid off this for the public to see? Why did journalists keep taking Slater’s morsels instead of digging into and reporting the bigger story?
I’m sure there is a lot of soul-searching going on for individual journalists just now, and I hope that there is a bit of self-reflection going on at an institutional level too. National’s dirty politics, for all its corrosive damage, also marks an opportunity for NZ. An opportunity to take stock, recognise such tactics for what they are, and reject them. An opportunity to clean up both politics and the media’s coverage of it.
Cleaning up politics is simple, vote the Nats out, that’s up to all of us. As for the media, that’s up to them, but if they rise to the challenge then Slater, in the long term, will have done us all a favour.
At the very least Savage and O’Sullivan need to be suspended until after the election.
What happened to free speech
The Herald has become a tawdry rag in the past few years.
A mixtures of sensational crime stories, inane celebrity yarns and attacks and smears on those fighting to maintain a decent and fair NZ. Doing the job of the big corporates who fund them.
The revelations mean the management there have a lot to answer.
“The Herald has become a tawdry rag in the past few years.”
Paul, It has always been a tawdry rag. I’ll go one further, a pathetic tawdry little rag.
I can remember some of the shit against Bill Rowling in the seventies conducted by the Herald.
Since then I have never ever bought the shit, and I certainly would not touch it now. May catch something especially now it has been down the sewer with the slug.
Another Rupert Murdock propaganda rag that needs Crimes act 116 being reviewed as News of the world was.
This is corporations corruption of host Governance no less by Murdock empire again.
When did Murdoch, as you imply, buy “The Herald” or its owner APN?
I didn’t think that Murdoch had anything to do with this paper.
Do you know something or do you just have a grudge against Rupert?
A link to details of his ownership of the NZH would be appreciated.
Rupert Murdock could be an adjective meaning corrupted, filthy, dishonest, trivialising, and privacy breaching. I’m pretty sure that’s how disturbed used it.
I suppose it could be. Anyone who did that might be considered to be a bit mentally disturbed of course.
On second thoughts it could be quite useful.
If I received a CV which makes false or over-stated claims about the persons achievements and made veiled or misleading claims to non-existent qualifications and so-on I won’t need to spell out what is wrong. I could use the convenient shorthand and just say that I had received a “Cunliffe” and then toss it in the big round file cabinet, as the public of New Zealand appear to be doing.
Maybe RNZ should stop using Hooton ( on 9 to Noon) Farrar and Jordan Williams ( onMora’s Panel) as commentators given their roles in all this Dirty Politics.
Agree and I see Hooton is on Q&A AGAIN this morning
Q and A host Susan Wood is a right wing puppet though and probably agrees with everything he says.
Good grief yes, I cant be the only listener who complains about their recurring uncriticised appearances where they get to flannel at will
They absolutely should stop using them.
Also must stop using pure Nat central & heavily involved in similar stuff Boag.
At least not without equivalent level left people for balance & I don’t mean bloody Mike & Josie ‘agree with everything the rightwinger says’.
The other day they had Boag & some lawyer on ‘the Panel’, pure right wing everything & not a word to the left.
Very much should stop using them. They’re all compromised and RNZ continuing to use them compromises RNZ.
In my mind, it’s not a ‘maybe’, it’s a definite. They’re not media ‘commentators’ as much as they are manipulators. They deal in spin and lobbying – it’s how they derive their income. All self-fulfilling and a bit of a waste of time and public money when it comes down to it.
But let’s not forget the way the media has been doing this in the area of business news for bloody years. Why the hell do they get partisan trading room bank employees to comment on the state of the economy and pass it off as gospel? These are the very people that never saw the GFC coming. I may have once mentioned that back in the late 80s/early 90s, a few of us (working at a company supporting the banking sector) used to follow some of these very same ‘experts” predictions – admittedly when they were 20 years younger. They got things wrong more often than they did make correct predictions – a dart board would have been more use! From what I can see, they’ve only learned a new set of spin lingo (“on the back of”; ‘going forward”; etc., etc.) and become more craven.
Actually quite pathetic when one thinks about it! But now the same agenda has extended into the political and social arena.
Very well said, Anthony.
Actually, it’s not just the media’s role to clean up their own act. We need a reformed public service broadcasting media & online media. That requires political leadership and policies.
Yep. Self-regulation is a Tory myth.
self regulation to a rtory means laissez faire on safety and environment etc.
Self-regulation to a Tory means doing anything they damn well please with no concern for the consequences.
Self regulation is like the loose trousers that some young guys wear, appearing to match society’s expectations of reasonable clothing, but with the slightest movement revealing ugly bum crack.
Exactly DTB. Their circular theories inform them that if they get away with shafting others then that’s just the natural order of things. Fantasists.
Karol, you said,
“Actually, it’s not just the media’s role to clean up their own act. We need a reformed public service broadcasting media & online media. That requires political leadership and policies”.
Yes we do, CH7 was that beast but as Russell will tell you National culled this with 1000 knives after saying TV7 activities will be amalgamated with other public channels. Ha Ha!
So in theory Joyce was saying we still have CH7 type journalism in other channels?
Just another Joyce/Goebbels move to destroy opposition voices to the NatZ plans to gut the country.
Criminal attack on our free speech.
CH7 was NOT “that beast”. It was not set up to be Tory Proof. It was a victim waiting for the next National Govt to get into power. Labour did not protect it with any structures or assets which would enable it to be resilient and continue it’s work after funding was cut.
Thanks. Hubby and I were just saying the same sort of stuff over brekkie. Just a shame that the story broke from hacker not respected journos
And just what exactly do you think has happened to the “respected journos” in the last few years? Why do you think all of us this has had to come from completely independent sources? The “respected journos” have been dealt to big time. Only the survivors who have trimmed their sails to the wind are still there to comment.
+1. Fliss, if the respected journos had done their job, the hacker wouldn’t have needed to do it for them. The hacker is a whistleblower, not just on Slater and National, but on the MSM. NZ still hasn’t gotten to grips with that one yet. How do you have a democracy if the MSM are complicit in the corruption?
You don’t, you have corporatocracy.
New name for an old sham. Oligarchy is what it is called.
Or plutocracy, or feudalism.
They’e pretty much all the same – rule by an unelected and unaccountable sector of society that holds all the wealth.
DTB said You don’t, have democracy – you have corporatocracy.
Yes it is a private style of communism without all sharing in the public wealth.
the very worst kind of legalised robbery of the masses.
@ aspasia. And that is why there can only be grave doubts about the media’s ability to clean itself up. Far too much of it is compromised, and any idiot who rode this particular ride instead of getting out is – well – probably an idiot at best (regardless of extenuating circumstances) or an amoral bastard at worst . And that’s all we’ve got.
I asked if the Journo, s would now come forward and explain how this culling of “respected Journalist’s” we all loved and lost because this is now a hot issue as we see the seedy MSM still not coming fully out into the light and pursuing corruption aggressively now even today.
Can they get together and request public air and TV time to explain?
Why would their right leaning political masters suspend them for doing what is expected? We need our own Huffington Post
No we don’t. The Huffington Post does not pay its journalists.
We do though need a left wing newspaper to balance the two corrupt tory ones.
the huffington post in one of the bases i touch in my daily news-roundups..
..and they are becoming less and less relevant..
..we need more an ‘alternet.’.or an ‘information clearing house’..
..and dare i say it..?..for a general daily round-up of local/international contrary-voices/progressive-politics..
..we already have that http://whoar.co.nz/ to be getting on with..
Odgers company let her go but only to create the facade of ethics on their part
I would be interested in seeing how far back this goes. Remember 2008 when The Herald attacked the Labour Government at every turn? Helen Clark could have walked on water from Britomart to Devonport and The Herald’s headline would have read “PM cheats on ferry fare.” Remember the “Nanny State” lines over energy efficient light bulbs and water saving shower heads? I bet they were in bed with Slater and the NACT’s back then too.
And the Democracy Under Attack head lines that they used. Head lines that didn’t come out when democracy was shown to actually be under attack – by National.
I believe the Herald is deeply mired in this.
“I bet they were in bed with Slater and the NACT’s back then too”.
Yes they were, as the contacts apparently went back even beyond then. When the whole dump comes expect this we believe.
Just keep in mind that the only person saying cameron has journalists in his back pocket is cameron himself. Given his modus operandi – which is lie about everything for financial gain – I’d suggest that the media are not as complicit as cameron is making out.
Matthew, Jordan? David? That you?
Maybe Jordan or David, but not Matthew – he would never make basic grammar errors (“camera” as opposed to “Cameron”)!
Camera for Cameron? They’re both in the propaganda game.
Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America …
Widespread misinformation about Israel’s defensive action in countering rocket fire from Gaza has marred all too much of the media’s coverage of the recent crisis.
It’s easy to read into things when you have a fixed point of view. For everyone here saying the media is biased towards the Right, there is a commentator on Kiwiblog and WO saying the media is biased towards the left. It’s human nature to filter what we read depending on our own personal views.
The job of journalists is to present both sides of an argument. When journalists present an argument that we agree with it usually has little impact on us because they are just reflecting how we think the world should be. But when they present an argument that is different from our world view we feel a sense of outrage.
Because this sense of outrage from what we disagree with is stronger than the neutral feelings we get when presented with something we agree with, we feel that there is a bias in the reporting even when the reporting is balanced.
A good example of this is how commenters on Kiwiblog thought that John Key had won the first debate when nearly all the neutral commentators in the media said he hadn’t. They were calling all media ‘leftist controlled hacks’ simply because they couldn’t see the debate from a neutral standpoint.
Most “left/right wing conspiracies” are just a convenient way to rationalise why other people don’t agree with your own personal point of view.
I’m guilty of it myself.
But when Cameron Slater says he is manipulating the news, you can be pretty sure he actually isn’t. The last three weeks headlines tend to enforce this opinion.
Unless of course his plan was to manipulate the media to get Collins sacked, collapse the National vote, destroy the future financial prospects of Jordon Willians, Cathy Odgers, Carrick Graham and himself, threaten the PM, implicate himself in potential criminal activity and destroy any hope in hell in his upcoming court cases with the Privacy Commission and Mathew Blomfield.
If that was his plan he has manipulated the media masterfully.
Actually, the job of journalists is to present the facts. When journalists also interpret those facts they’re doing us a disservice. It is from that interpretation that the bias that we see in the MSM comes from.
The last three weeks tends to indicate that exact opposite of what you think. This makes you come across as another apologist for National’s dirty politics.
His plan was not to get caught doing it. His plan failed.
“Actually, the job of journalists is to present the facts. When journalists also interpret those facts they’re doing us a disservice. It is from that interpretation that the bias that we see in the MSM comes from.”
That’s the ideal. Removing bias from facts is almost impossible, though. Even the English language in default form – purely literal – is biased. Anyone writing anything cannot remove themselves, their future, or past. The best you could do would be to publish lists: “Car, truck, impact, person, tree, sky, sun, police…” Event that list is biased.
At the other end of the scale, political organisations, committees of any kind of special influence, should stay as far away from journalism as The Church should theoretically be from the State. Talk of left wing government clamping down on the media just sounds like Authoritarianism to me, because it is.
To get to the bottom of what people like to read about and how often, we will soon end up in the job of totally shredding whatever we consider our culture to be. Not so bad if people have anarchist tendencies (yay! freedom!), but anything less will only reveal how bias we are towards our own ends regardless or our place on the political spectrum.
The basic fault in our media right now is not the Herald per see, or journalists, but a lack of diverse journalistic views. Addressing that ought to be enough.
poor attempt to shift the blame!
Nicky Hager you forgot to mention his book!
Prior to the book Slater and all his Key conspirators had the Media in the palm of their dirty little hands.
Now no one wants to take responsibility for the consequences!
It has been clear to me since at least 2009 that National, Farrar, and Slater have been working a resonance effect with journos. In particular with the NZ Herald and TV3 newsroom.
Like a laser, a non-story would pumped back and forth between Whaleoil and Kiwiblog, each remarking on what the other had said, until journos started to write stories about “allegations” raised by the blogs.
I’d guess you are either unobservant or willfully ignorant in a style made popular by their allies – the diversion trolls.. Let us not forget that.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean consequences’ comment is wrong – we all know they are complicit, but whether they are as complicit as Slater claims remains to be seen.
Sure there will be plenty of back-pedalling as everyone scrambles to distance themselves from the guttersnipe & seek to establish some kind of moral high ground, but consequences is right in that while we know there has been many dirty exchanges between Slater and ALL parties (albeit mainly the Nats!), we also know he is full of bluff, bluster & BS & his manic approach has been known to cloud what would otherwise be astute & intelligent dirty play.
Sadly for him, like all egomaniacs he is consumed with delusions of grandeur so tends to overplay his hand……so I think it is hard to decipher what is fact & what is (Slater’s) ego.
But as I said below, there will probably be much more to come of this stuff so no doubt we will all soon have a clearer idea on who was involved & our big their role was.
The bigger question of course is if all dirty dealings come to light what then? How do we move forward? Will there be any decent politicians left?
Cameron Slater always has been a rather boastful bugger. So yes, I tend to take whatever he says with a hearty dose of skepticism. Instead I tend to look at effects and try to figure out who and what is doing the machinations.
I’m always inclined to let the machinations to be exposed or at least be commented on. If there is fallout, then so be it.
I’ve always made damn sure that anything I write or do is clear and above the board, and that is the standard that I expect others to follow as well. If they don’t then that is their problem. 😈
It has always been clear that this site is about peoples *own* opinions..
There are a lot of clean politicians. I’ve never had any serious attempts by politicians on the left to manipulate what authors say here. If I ever did then it is likely that whoever did it would wind up carrying their gonads away from here in a cup (figuratively speaking).
and yet so many regard his blog as gospel… Until the Right is implicated…
Go sell fish somewhere else.
From Savage today
“I cut and pasted the content of some of those emails, to remove any possible identifying features, and forwarded them on to Slater. So information was shared, there was a bit of “horse trading”, we talked about developments as the story rolled along.”
Hmmm, something wrong there, let’s have another go at this one.
“I cut and pasted the content of some of those emails, to remove any possible identifying features implicating myself, and forwarded them, with their full headers, on to Slater. So information was shared, there was a bit of “horse trading”, we talked about developments as the story rolled along.”
Ahh much better.
yet his editor states
His emails drip with boastfulness and bluster. He exaggerates in the same email his influence over Herald coverage of Feeley, which was nil, and the extent of contact and information he had with a Herald reporter, which was limited.
what we really need is our own Jon Sewart and the Daily Show. They are one of the few media in USA talking truth to power. His reporting is more than a joke, he relates to the people the real story in a way that they can relate to and understand. He has a reputation for truth, something that is lacking in news in this country, and laying out the bleeding oblivious to the public in an undeniable way.
stewart deserves credit for blazing the way..
but john oliver has since surpassed stewart..
Jon Stewart goes half the distance. He highlights some of the more egregious behaviour. But he never calls for change of substance to the actual system. At most he might mock a few people in positions of power.
Remember, his corporate job and his million dollar pay packet is also reliant on the current system continuing.
We had one -he’s doing a great job too – for Oz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfbIZ1L9z3c
“Every careful observer of politics has known for a long time that Slater was running dirty tricks for the Nats. Plenty of media were inside Slater’s tent, as Fisher puts it, and many of them would have worked out, as Fisher did, what was going on. Why did it take a hacker and Hager’s book to blow the lid off this for the public to see? Why did journalists keep taking Slater’s morsels instead of digging into and reporting the bigger story?”
This is something I have wondered for the past couple of years, but even more so after I stepped away from the WO party line & was eventually banned from WO!
Like ‘consequences’ above I am of the view that Slater is full of bluff, bluster & BS so never understood why so many bought into it & why they continued to give him air time. Why is it these journos who clearly held him in such contempt continued to allow him to be the tail wagging the dog. They just had to ignore him & he would have gone away. Eventually!
While it is highly amusing that Slater has been hoisted by his own harpoon & that his intelligence has predictably been undermined by his ego & lack of foresight causing the political demise of his dear friend Collins, what does concern me is that he does fight dirty & he is going to go down fighting.
You lefties might be happy that he has laid a complaint about Key with Privacy Commission, but if you’re politically savvy you will know it won’t fly & you will know that any chance this hager sager would result in Labour & the Greens winning left the second Collins announced her resignation.
But while we – the centre right voters – have won the battle, we as in all voters, won’t win the war. Slater’s ego & his inability to just quit while he is losing will cost us, it will potentially undermine the integrity of our democracy.
That hacker is out for blood – Slater’s – & because Slater chooses to be right rather than happy (even when he is wrong) he is not ever going to back down. So my guess he & the hacker are going to go head to head meaning all correspondence between Slater & ALL prominent NZers will be exposed. And this will include those you favour on the left.
So when it comes to wishing this is the start of a political clean-up I would say be careful what you wish for as if this stuff continues I reckon we will see many more casualties than Collins, Slater, Ede & Odger (bummer she’s a toxic bum now too eh!).
On a side note – wouldn’t it have made more sense for Slater to just print off all correspondence & perhaps transfer them to an external hard drive so as to keep his own hard drive & cloud storage squeaky clean? I am surprised he had kept so much juicy info so handy & ripe for the picking from would-be hackers.
The issues are wider than just Slater and his relationships with the media. Ask yourself why RNZ, which doesn’t appear to have that relationship with Slater, is still using Hooton as an independent political commentator. Or why Farrar is likewise being used by the MSM and presented as a right wing blogger instead of a National party pollster. Both those men as part of Dirty Politics, so why are they not being stood down and called out on that?
What we are witnessing is the nasty, grubby, illegal end of a much bigger problem. It’s the shift in culture that has happened within the last 30 years, that has almost completely destroyed investigative journalism in mainstream NZ, and has created not just the rightist bias within the MSM, but it’s also removed the skills from many journalists that are necessary for independent though eg to recognise what is right and wrong, or to understand conflict of interest boundaries.
Good comment weka – yes this stuff has been going on for decades, but it definitely shifted into new & illegal territory when social media started to kick off.
So why do you think Hooton & Farrar have not been stood down? Why do you think they have a more direct relationship with the likes of RNZ over Slater? Do you think it is because they are the sanitised faces of right wing attacks (since Slater is too toxic to associate with directly & because he has a ‘face for radio’)? Or something more sinister?
In terms of Hooton I don’t think he hasn’t been incriminated in the same way as Farrar so with no original emails being produced his denials seem to suffice as after all, Hager didn’t give anyone the right of reply.
That could all change of course if more emails get released; maybe Hooton has been given a warning/is on notice.
It is interesting that you see a right wing bias in the media as for the last 6 years many of us on the right have felt has been biased towards the left.
It has changed recently though, especially after Shearer & the missing millions.
John Campbell hasn’t changed though – you guys have got him for life!
But yes, the way MSM has been completely undermined is distressing. Blogs have no checks & balances, they don’t have an independent code or council as it is essentially a free for all where any neanderthal can make up the rules & change them at whim.
Maybe the MSM & the politicians need to step back & just leave the social media to the blogs?
Sure, but they aren’t particularly different to the MSM in that regard. Getting hit with a ineffectual wet bus ticket of having to print a retraction after a few months on a page no-one will read in return for an agreement between parties that they won’t sue for defamation probably seems like a bargain to someone like Slater.
Say something here that compromises this site and this “neanderthal” will examine it, make a decision based on the current state of our legal risk and exert the appropriate response pretty well immediately. We usually get a permanent change in someones behaviour on site one way or another. That is why we don’t get sued or have Slater’s kinds of issues. It is also why we won’t be going into something like the OSMA as it will actually reduce the level of control by sysops over the idiots in the net. This is a concept called ‘sysop responsibility’. If they have any sense they neither want to wind up in court, nor have to spend a lot of time cleaning up a shitpit that inattention will cause.
As it is, our authors and commenters self-restrict themselves to acceptable levels of writing and behaviour, and we have clear lines of responsibility to myself and Mike. Both of us are sticklers about what is acceptable.
Then it comes down to choice. Many blogs won’t carry much of an audience because of what people write. The arseholes of the net will choose to hang off the self-destructive like Slater or dive into the older sewer at Kiwiblog. The more rational will come here or to Public Address or Transport Blog where the conversations may be robust but their comments can be heard.
In each case they have to conform to whatever the local rule set is. That is how the net operates and has been doing so in one form or another for decades.
And out comes the uninformed BS again.
Police do it. Good cop bad cop. Hooten engages with Williams, and so his brand os one of the conciliator for the right, of course he never actual does any conciliation. To walk you need to fall forward. In order to take the debate off the story that the right does not like, Hooten is used to kick the story forward by destabilizing but has the ability to direct the change. Hooten on Q&A got to finally express the problem, and so begin the fight back, when he said that the problem was the PM’s office, that Key hasn’t sacked the staffer because the staffer was doing what he was told. With the noise of the Collins resignation, we have the pivot point for movement. i.e. we connect in our minds that Key’s problem has been solved because Collins has resigned.
But of course it hasn’t because the Press are still livid with the PM office for playing them, nobody in the PM office or the PM has had a bloody nose.
emailing hagers street name in response to a request on behal of those wishing to chop chop nicky.
You theory doesnt account for slater being used by others to their end, hence he never had the control he claimed but that doesnt mean a strategy wasnt being deployed. His bluff blustering and bragging creates a great distancing if things went wrong
” oh slater? Hes full of it”
I don’t think John Campbell is a left wing journalist. He is just a good journalist who tells the whole story and doesn’t put a right-wing spin on it.
What we are witnessing is the nasty, grubby, illegal end of a much bigger problem. It’s the shift in culture that has happened within the last 30 years, that has almost completely destroyed investigative journalism in mainstream NZ…
It is worth remembering that the two-track system seems to have been developed in response to “The Hollow Men.” Instead of trying to dress up a known right wing zealot to look user-friendly, it seemed prudent to get a little-known man to mouth soothing platitudes while a back-room team made the running. Paula Bennett’s being run up the flagpole as a potential National leader suggests that they have not given up on this line of thought, but have instead looked for other ways to stay on the same track.
What we have is a system of economic colonisation, which is able to continue as long as many of the media and the middle class do their darnedest to remain in the colonisers’ favour. You would expect that the illegal efforts made to protect a man who robbed people of their life savings would ring alarm bells for them, but I am not sure it will.
…which is able to continue as long as many of the media and the middle class do their darnedest to remain in the colonisers’ favour.
I agree, Olwyn,
It’s rattled a few cages to find that the ‘get out of jail free’ cards are not necessarily infinite, but then what will happen to Collins (and anyone else who is cut loose)? No real punishment, a life of luxury, just didn’t get the job she wanted.
As for alarm bells, we humans seem to be uniquely gifted at ignoring them.
Talking of Paula Bennett:
Isn’t it ironic that one of the more serious criticisms currently being leveled at Judith Collins was her release to Cameron Slater of the name of a public servant whom she wrongly believed to be the leaker of a controversial email, in an attempt to discredit him.
Now Ms Paula Bennett is being talked up as a potential leader of the National Party in her place. And what did she do a few years back? She released the WINZ details of two solo mothers who told her it was wrong to discontinue night classes that assisted people like themselves to gain a qualification, in an attempt to discredit them.
@ Anne. Yes, she has shown exactly the same contempt for the constraints of office. And she is yet another potential brand-bearer with a photo-shopped back story, as opposed to an actual leader. The right seem to consider their leadership with less depth and seriousness than a shopkeeper considers the kind of counter staff to employ.
unsol, such sweet concern.
Slater wasn’t ignored precisely because he had extensive contacts within National – a feeding pipe to the sewer if you like – that journalists/ media organisations could and did scoop from.
Any journalist (cutting lots of slack here) digging in that environment would have been dealt to by way of smears and loss of career advancement or possibly loss of job. Refer to the point above if you’re unclear about why said journalist would be hung out to dry.
Lastly, if there are people from the left if the house embroiled with Slater to anything like the extent members of the National party are, then Cunliffe (I assume you are meaning to refer to the Labour Party in your comment?) gets to clean out the Labour Party caucus. Now, what’s not to celebrate about that?
Yes Slater did have some leverage thanks to his wee gaggle of insiders, but the question is how much of this information really mattered? Not a lot. The only major expose he had was Goff being caught out for lying about the SIS briefing – which was a non issue for most NZers – and of course the Len Brown affair….which, while salacious, amounted to nothing more than a few giggles & whoopee doos. Neither was career ending – Goff was never going to last as a leader & Brown, well, he is unshakeable.
So it still begs the question, what was it about Slater that made the MSM so desperate to hang onto him?
How could a blogger who most people knew nothing about possibly destroy the career of a journalist? What is it that journalists have been doing that would make the public gasp? That could be a sackable offence? A career ending scandal? Since when does the public care about the personal lives of journalists or anyone….unless they have thrown their spouse down the stairs? Are you saying Slater had them over a barrel because they are all cheating drunks & wife bashers?
But yes, plenty to celebrate if Cunliffe gets to clean house……of course there would still be the issue of poor fiscal policy though! 😉
Even the ‘innocent as a babe’ journalist who cuts the oxygen from an easy and reliable source for copy would be seen in what light by their employer? Erm… career hits cul de sac at best.
Slater, PR firms, etc. fill the gap for journalists who have been subject to media industry ‘rationalisations’ which mean their jobs are precarious and their deadlines vanishingly short and workload increasing.
It’s the quick and easy way to make copy that sensationalises your way up the career ladder.
The road to hell is broad and easy …
Also, I suspect many of the people who have been attracted to journalism since the 1980s reforms are as much motivated by the appeal of mini-celebrity status than the values of serious journalism. It’s the way of the world over the past 30 years.
Good, gets even more of the trash out of our politics.
Unfortunately, some people just want to brush all this dirt under the carpet and carry on as if nothing had happened. Seemingly not wanting to get the corruption out of our country.
My suspicion is that Slater is more used than using. He is too enamoured with himself to realise it. Everything we see now is down to Hager and not Slater. Despite what some choose to believe, if there is evidence of corrupt practice by the Left, Hager will publish it. THAT is but one difference between mr slater and mr hager
if the left needs cleaning up, then i will happily watch the releases that lead to it. Unlike some my aim is to see a decent and fair society and it being lead by decent and fair people.
The extent that those with money have been undermining democracy in NZ was until now suspected not known.
Everyone ought to be embracing the shining of light into dark places.
It is not them and us, we are actually all sailing on the same boat. New zealand
I’m sorry but I don’t understand, why should we care if it ropes in some on the left? That would be good would it not, corruption is after all corruption wherever it is practised.
Anyway until it does, if it does (and I’m sure there are possibilities) this is a distraction. Everyone so far has been National Party.
I agree. The right dont get it cos they see it as them and us… They truly think some of us here would tolerate this in “our own”.
That’s because they accept corruption in their own as shown by the RWNJs coming on here and defending all the corruption that has shown to be in National and so think that everyone that else does as well. That’s also the source of John Key’s and National’s Labour did it too line that they’ve been using as a defence for their own corruption.
100% Investigation of MSM under crimes act 116.
Hooten said this on Q+A today.
We say it is in the public interest to get to the bottom of this.
All it needs is someone to lay a compliant with the police of Media corruption charges.
Why? The email was just talk. Slater was sent off to get him out of the picture. Then the pieces were setup and the opening gambit selected. A totally different crisis was brewed up, one that likely isn’t criminal (Hooten said it might not be), and you have the classic turd blossom. Smelly,distracting and highly attention grabbing and precisely designed to be played when Slater returns.
Nobody has be held to account for the speedy release of SIS briefing notes. Or weather the same notes were used to brief the PM. Its all in play…
…oh, look Collins has been sacked…
If there is anything implicating anyone from anywhere on the political spectrum, I want it to come out. If there are any in the Greens (doubtful), Labour (possible), or Mana (doubtful) working with Slug Boy, we need to know and get rid of them. Not knowing about them is what undermines the integrity of our democracy.
No. Cameron Slater hasn’t done us a favour – Nicky Hager has done us the favour.
Also, who ever passed on the information to Hager…
Slater the loose Cannon is now firing blanks at his enemies while blowing hole in his own party!
It’s like watching the demolition derby *grabs popcorn*
I will ask once more, who is Slater to be able to influence Government to such extend that ha can actually destroy a government that is elected? (Any Government I might add). This is undue influence and should be looked at by the Serious Fraud office. This is extremely serious, far more so than a Monica Lewinsky.
Yep. We need a serious investigation to see just how deep the the rabbit hole goes and to get the people involved out of our politics. I don’t think the SFO are really made for this sort of stuff and that we need a Corruption Unit in the Justice Department.
rofl, the corruption unit just resigned!
You’re seeing it all arse over tit Foreign Waka.
Slater is/was the conduit National uses/used for putting bad shit out there. He didn’t influence government – government used him to influence public discourse. Y’know, they (National) feed him a line and the media then scoops easy copy from the sewer.
In effect National are destroying themselves because they exerted undue influence and weren’t quite careful enough about how they did it.
edit. that and the fact that many within national got carried away eg Collins believing that Minister of Justice meant that she could decide and execute whatever she considered appropriate ‘justice’…like it’s 1500A.D.
Another example is John Key as the Minister for Security Services believing that he could decide and have executed… Slater being supplied with the contents of a secret document in order to bring down the Leader of the Opposition shortly before an election.
Well aye. That’s the one that’s got to have John filling his pants in private. Either that request was released with his knowledge, in which case he’s guilty of using the SiS for political gain. Or he exercised zero oversight as the minister in charge of the area he was in charge of and allowed private citizens to make calls on incredibly sensitive OIA’s. Or then, the fact that no-one has been called to account for the Goff release suggests a nod and a wink was being applied to the latter scenario.
The man’s fucked. The only question that remains is ‘When’? Does he get through an election, resign and run? Does NZ have an extradition treaty with the US?
edit. okay, that was two questions remaining. So far 😉
Result. = Slater gate or Watergate revisited.
Slater has been used by a premeditated strategy of the right including ACT and National party people. That Slater’s mental frailties lead him to make it all his machivellian machinations doesnt make it so.
I bet his readership doesnt drop though, even with many now saying he inflates or makes shit up.÷
Psychopathy is a characterological/neurological condition unrelated to mental illness. There have been a few bloggers associating slater’s alleged psychological condition with his vicious behaviour. This is unfair and discriminatory. People with mental illnesses are less likely to aggress against others than the average person, and much more likely to be vicitimised.
That can’t be restated often enough.
hence i suggested frailties rather than illness.
I think most people would interpret your comment as being about his mental health and relate it to what’s in the public domain about his mental health.
then let me clarify for those who read my post and thought i was saying what just saying thought.
He strikes me as fuull of misdirected anger (resulting in malicious acting out). His frailty, imo, is that he thinks the anger is legitimate and just his way of acting out.
His frailty is that anger is the surface emotion, below it lies pain, hurt etc. He sees himself as some kind of avenging crusader which suggests a deep sense of the victim on his part. Rather than address that he diverts and rather than deal with it creates a self destructive outlet in tge form of the blog, which, imo, is only exacerbating his frailties… A pain that gnaws away, a past when he felt like a powerless victim etc.
“Psychopathy is a characterological/neurological condition unrelated to mental illness.”
It can be. It is not one or the other however. That’s your political bias showing. No one need apologise for anything.
I think the point is that speculating about connections between Slater’s mental health and abhorrent behaviour feeds prejudice and ignorance about mental health in general.
Thats not all it can do Weka. A discussion can also educate. I think making any connection between slaters depressive illness and his behaviour taboo is also contrary to mental health awareness.
There is no way of knowing whether Slater’s reported “depression” has anything to do with his vile behaviour. What we do know is that depression in general is not correlated with this kind of behaviour, if it was, we’d be a lot further up shit creek than we are, given the prevalence of depression.
This kind of bad/mad conflation has consequences for how people who have mental illnesses are treated. It’s easy and it’s lazy and it is a part of a very real problem. Many say the stigma of mental illness is as damaging as mental illness itself.
Violence and aggression is principally explained by other factors.
I don’t think so. If you look at this in its entirety, then it becomes quite clear that Mr Slater has been the “turntable” that was holding all the information and he decided when and to whom to release it. This means he can hold a nation at ransome and by the look of it has done so. That politicians believed that they can use that conduit is just one facet of many, there are also public servants, media of all persuasions etc. You need to remember that the power resides at that place where ALL of the information is being held. Thus, Mr Slater has to be held accountable as a citizen holding a government at ransome to such extend that it can be brought down. Actually, it all is like a roman novel from 2000 BC.
Bollocks. Bill is right: if it weren’t Slater the National Party would be using some other reckless adolescent. His power and status derive from his position as a proxy.
Much more widespread corruption than even Nixon was for goodness sake come on opposition press the criminal act charges under section 116 as we all ask please now.!
It is the links between business / money and government / political parties that causes this dirty shit.
The National Party is all about those links so it is hardly surprising that this is happening to them. They are dirty and corrupt. Everyone knows it.
The link between business / money and government / political parties is the link that must be attacked. It must be purged from the system. There must be no such link …..
Another link to the link between big business and government.
K Rich behaviour needs to be investigated regarding the political appoinrtment to the Health board, highlighted in dirty politic, even if to clear her name. s
Frank Macskasy’s article is very good about how dirty our mainstream media is…
Frank Macskasy’s article is very good – very clearly showing the Mainstream Media’s propaganda machine at work.
Due to a bug, at the moment the http bit at the start of URLs will drop your comment into the spam filter. You can either wait for one of the mods to retrieve it, or you can post the URL without the offending bits.
Yeah it is a freaking problem. I still haven’t isolated the lump of code that is doing it.
Edit: ok, putting www without the http in the link means that the comment avoids the spam filter, and the link is clickable. This works even on URLs that don’t normally use www (like wordpress, will try twitter now too).
works on twitter too. Not sure if there is an issue with it appearing as http instead of https. Anyone know?
What’s clear is Journalism in NZ is as many of us have been saying at the Standard very very lazy and partizan in running lines against opposition parties. Far from being the gate keepers of our democracy they have become the major factor in Politics.
“No doubt future sources will want to bear in mind that The Herald is happy to share their material with the most vile blog in the country.”
Brings to mind the sex victim who was threatened with being outed by someone from the Herald. Ugh.
Corin Dann another compromised member of the media
His interviews with Parker and English show him interrupting Parker far more than he interjected English.
Remember Mr Dann you are working for a public broadcaster and are supposed to be impartial….
… I think that although the idea of TVNZ being a ‘public broadcaster’ maybe theoretically correct, it’s more that it is a publicly OWNED SOE broadcaster – with an overpaid, over-staffed partisan management required to deliver a ‘return’. In the media environment of today, that means they must be competitive, highly commercial and use varous measurements of success that are based on commercial, rather than social (public interest) imperatives.
Rest assured, come a change of government, there will be change. Unfortunately (for my tastes), they’re not ambitious enough.
Pardon any fuckups in my comments folks – the fingers are cold and the eyesight changing
Labour sustained the commercially oriented, high profit seeking SOE business model for TVNZ; Cullen liked the dividends on his books and National simply took the framework to its most logical conclusion.
Agreed! I’ve always said Helen chose to have a lay down and a cup of tea in the third term – instead of backing out some of the damage done during the previous 10-15 years.
I was assured by a Wellington candidate that they’ve seen the error of their ways (and Cunliffe himself has acknowledged the neo-lib agenda has failed). The assurances are not enough though for me to give my party vote to Labour yet.
PSB (and the Sky, SKY/cosy TVNZ relationship/monopoly) is munted – totally and absolutely, AND now RNZ is under threat.
It’s reversible and salvageable however. I can think of a couple of easy steps that would put pay to the SKY monopoly/cosy TVNZ relationship for a start, and ones that the most ardent capitalists (given they apparently like competition) could hardly object to.
Unfortunately at the moment, the crony capitalists and managerial class of neo-lib acolytes have been given a Divine right to do as they please with public resources.
Like I say, for me – the proposals I’ve heard of are not actually ambitious enough.
@ Once Was Tim
“the most ardent capitalists apparently like competition”
That’s one of the greatest neo-liberal lies. They love being monopolies. They only like competition when it drives down the price of what they are buying.
I have never lived in a country which has so many personal fortunes built on owning a monopoly.
Why buy it overseas when you can buy it in NZ and pay more?
Let the sun shine Mr Slater, you love exposing crooked people to the sunlight.
It looks like its time for a little of your own medicine and it certainly seems like there is a lot to be seen.
this section on the radio this morning with garner Hooton and Boag is fucking amazing
can you please be a bit more spcific with the time (that link is generic)? ta.
Holy shit, Hooton sounds really upset at Boag because she is saying there is nothing in the Slatergate accusations. Is that real or part of the play?
10.15 and 10.30 segments
[Yep. Go to http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx and choose the 10:15 am segment – MS]
To me the 10:15 segment was paint advice. The incredible segment was 10:30 – 11am
Thanks, I hadn’t listened to the second and third ones! Might be good for someone to record them, I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t stay up.
ah, so Hooton’s agenda becomes apparent – get rid of enough of them to satisfy his utu, but Key should be left alone because the National govt is taking the country in the right direction. Key’s management of the situation has been appalling until he fired Collins, but nevertheless Hooton would still vote for him over the evil Cunliffe-led left wing cabal. Poor Mattie, doesn’t have anyone to vote for anymore.
Josie Pagani also sounds compromised by her links to Cathy Odgers….from Q and A panel
There is a whole extra chapter around that which we don’t know anything about yet.
Whats funny is that both sides are claiming bias against them by the same people… Lolololololol
Opposition please lay appropriate charges to now seize all files computers and cell phones and laptops from all who have been mentioned in this sordid corruption scandal that is now circulating around the globe.
Matthew Hooten suggested on Q+A today that under the Crimes act section 116 a charge should be laid now.
Before evidence is destroyed!
This is on behalf of all citizens of NZ who deserve justice to be done swiftly now, in order to save our democracy.
Crimes Amendment Act 2002
116 Conspiring to defeat justice
Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who conspires to obstruct, prevent, pervert, or defeat the course of justice in New Zealand or the course of justice in an overseas jurisdiction.
Compare: 1908 No 32 s 137
Section 116: amended, on 18 June 2002, by section 6(1) of the Crimes Amendment Act 2002 (2002 No 20).
So this is a case in the public interest not only political circles.
The price of Freedom & Democracy is constant vigilance.
And official inquiry must include the ‘brown bag’ payoffs of 17 National candidates to stand down this election .. $300K each supposedly. From whence cometh the brown bags and the dosh ?
And a question … does Banks get to keep his pension even though he is convicted ?
Will Collins be permitted to keep hers if she is found guilty of criminality in office ?
You have some evidence for this remarkable claim do you?
Something, anything, that provides more than just an unsubstantiated claim of this nature would be nice.
patience, alwyn, patience …
In other words, no you don’t.
I have heard equally scurrilous rumours about certain parties leaders.
Two of them were supposedly offered half a million each to guarantee that Dotcom would NOT be extradited from New Zealand under any circumstances if they were part of the Government.
I told the purveyor of this I didn’t believe him.
I don’t believe you either.
how marvelous we still live in a democracy and you remain free to call me a liar.
TV3 news running a story about the Hutt South electorate and introduced Chris Bishop. Just happened to be working for Philip Morris from 2011 to 2013. All of a sudden there are tobacco lobbyists running for parliament, after 17 MPs conveniently retire.
Dirty Politics tells the story of how Slater, Lusk et al intimidated candidates in National electorates who weren’t right wing enough not to run.
Seems there are too many coincidences here.
I think he was named as a Lusk prospect in DP.
Mr Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.”
Hang about Alwyn,
I take it you haven’t read ‘Dirty Politics’? Didn’t Hager discuss, in a fair amount of detail, the organised move within the loony element in National to replace moderate candidates with hard right acolytes?
I don’t think what Yeshe suggested be looked into is that far removed from that discussion.
The right wing of New Zealand would be well advised to allow a serious investigation into the allegations flying around and then become active in rectifying any problems uncovered, otherwise they are going to struggle with ‘perception challenges’ (of corruption and lack of integrity) for a very long time to come.
I can see National’s problem – they are entirely beholden to big money interests, so it will be pretty hard to clean up their act. They kind of require the dirty tricks because if they were open and honest about their real intentions noone would vote for them LOL
So I guess they will carry on playing responses of false affront and throwing puerile tit-for-tat/projection style insults (like it looks like you have) and rectify nothing.
I’m not so bothered if you lot carry on in this manner, am pretty pleased about it actually, the more the right carry on the way they are going, the more people are going to see through them and they will become more and more and more unelectable.
“Information has power. Those with the greatest access to information are those in power. Slater’s links inside National meant he had access to good information.
But as 2012 got underway, I began to wonder who was manipulating Slater and whether I was in turn being made to do another’s bidding. It caused a feeling of great unease. It’s not unusual for journalists to deal with people who have causes to push, or axes to grind. But when you can’t see who, ultimately, is pushing the cause or grinding the axe, you risk failing yourself and your readership.”
I found the above the one of the most interesting parts of the article, reading between the lines.
I think the next resignation will be Key’s, before or after the election.
Sounds like the Tory bullhorn is getting a few dents in it.
Sable, ” Sounds like the Tory bullhorn is getting a few dents in it.”
What is that?
A bullhorn is a loudspeaker hand held non-electrical. “You are surrounded!. Mr Key come out with your hands up.”
as george w bush said you got to smoke them out round them up and run them out of dodge
As usual Cam Slater got it right! He called reporters ‘repeaters’ and journalists ‘churnalists!’ And he should know!
Boag Hooton on Radiolive 10.15-10.30 this morning Matthew trying to blame Eaglsetons appointment on Boag!
The Nactional Party is imploding Rats(nats)Leaping from the stinking ship!
Hooton again sheating home blame right to the very Top i.e
Oh the irony of it all, Slater inadvertently brings down his ‘friend’ the corrupt govt minister! In his defense Slater could plead insanity and based on his actions and public utterances that would be plausible.
In another ironic twist Slater appears to have done the whole country a favour in assisting in the removal of possibly this country’s first truly corrupt, possibly even ‘evil’ member of parliament. Her likeness to The Joker is uncanny. Only Acts David Garrett stealing dead babies identities could be argued a contender.
The factions in the National party are now being publicly exposed and contrary to the PR well oiled machine image, show not just division on ideology or policy but the stark reality of good versus bad. If the rot can be cut out in time National will survive but on current observation there won’t be a whole lot of the apple left.
According to an acquaintance who works at APN/Herald the comments to todays editorial went into meltdown with an avalanche of readers appalled by the reports of Savage and O’Sullivans closeness to Slater and Odgers. Apparently they couldn’t moderate the huge negative response. I just checked and they had not updated them since 11.15 this morning.
god wow what can you say its Pandora’s box oh !i really think John key should be stood down and English can act as care taker pm until the election and have a royal commission into this whole affair cover up report cant restore confidence.
Labour wants to set up a new TV station
Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/labour-wants-to-set-up-a-new-tv-station-2014083117#ixzz3Bx5TKUIC
Interesting. Using revenue from TVNZ?
Excellent move Labour. 100% +++++++++++
This sounds good too:
The full policy pdf is here:
Or the quick summary:
No. Cameron Slater has not done anyone any favours. He has been a disaster.
Nicky Hager, he certainly did us a favour; same goes for his source, the Rawshark.
You know who else? People like you, R0b, and karol and lprent who have actively moderated, especially to eliminate violence from The Standard.
Slater’s been trying to spin that he is only doing what everyone else is doing – by which he means us – but the fact is that we don’t do that stuff. We don’t do it because it just isn’t POLITICALLY CORRECT!!!!
Still waiting for the Herald to proclaim ‘Democracy under attack.’
“Herald Journalist David Fisher deserves credit for his brave mea culpa”
– Brave? More like trying to save his own skin…