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We need more ministers like Steven Joyce

Written By: - Date published: 11:45 am, March 7th, 2018 - 123 comments
Categories: labour, national, phil twyford, Steven Joyce - Tags:

Steven Joyce would have been pretty useful in a Labour-led government right now.

Steven Joyce took over the rapidly collapsing Novopay system from the Minister of Education after a completely stuffed procurement process. It took months to fix, but he and his team fixed it. Stepen Jojyce fronted throughout.

Steven Joyce also amalgamated dozens of different departments together to form the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. This Department is now the primary go-to shop for advice and action if you want to get stuff done. They are the default regulator, funder, and shaper of much of our current economy, including housing, and our entire innovation ecosystem.

Steven Joyce rolled out the Crown Fibre Holdings rollout of broadband across New Zealand’s cities. Millions now benefit from that increased capacity.

Re-using that Crown Fibre corporate structure, Steven Joyce also re-formed the Special Purpose Development Vehicles that have accelerated Crown development in some areas. They are already the template for what Twyford rolls out in the coming months. You can see it developing stuff in southern Auckland right now.

Steven Joyce was also core to the rollout of the irrigation fund. Plenty of other Ministers stumbled in this area. The completed projects are major alterations to New Zealand’s economy that have enabled massive new dairy processing investments.

Steven Joyce got Transmission Gully motorway going, together with Mackay to Pekapeka. It had almost nothing to do with Peter Dunne, and everything to do with Joyce while Minister of Transport.

Steven Joyce accelerated the entire Pokeno-Meremere-Huntly-Hamilton-Cambridge motorway system. Last stages of it won’t be finished until 2020, but it is a well-overdue upgrade to the Auckland-Hamilton-Taouranga freight triangle.

Steven Joyce also got the Puhoi-Wellsford motorway alliance going.

Steven Joyce, with MBIE, ensured that Emirates Team New Zealand were supported through multiple losses, and then ensured that they came back here. Which will be a spectacular event for Auckland and for the world.

Steven Joyce was also the primary negoatiator for the government in forming the National Convention Centre. His control of Crown risk in that negotiaton with Sky City stands in absolutely stark contrast to Brownlee’s debacle in Christchurch’s Justice Precinct or the dead Christchurch Stadium.

All of those, and more, are tasks that will shape New Zealand for a century to come.

I don’t have to like all of them, and I sneakily suspect some of you might not either.

Plenty of things he could have done, plenty of marginal benefits foregone or wasted. Plenty of projects he opposed.

But he should look back with pride that the stuff that he put his shoulder to was hard, changed New Zealand significantly according to government policy, and will last the test of time.

And he had no ego about any of it. He just got on with it. All of the long-range jobs he started will be finished and celebrated under a Labour-led government. And he doesn’t care.

Steven Joyce is like a front-row forward in New Zealand: they get no praise but they carry weight. They are critical to the long term success and reputation of a government. Of the current government, only Twyford comes close, and he has got a long way to go before he delivers as Joyce has done.

Steven Joyce, this country needs more Ministers like you. Just, on the left.

123 comments on “We need more ministers like Steven Joyce ”

  1. Puckish Rogue 1

    Damn dude you looking to get excommunicated?

  2. cleangreen 2

    What a lot of bloody dribbling rubbish you speak of Joyce ADVANTAGE.

    I don’t think anyone believes Joyce now or what you said since the $11.7 Billion hole issue was debunked and it buried him.

    He needs to be investigated over has actions in the “leaking of financial details into Winston’s private affairs to destroy him.

    Joyce is dirty and you can’t paint over a shitty turd but nice try.

    • Ad 2.1

      Proud dirt to him.

      • OncewasTim 2.1.1

        Do you really believe it was Joyce that fixed Novapay?
        And your trying to polish the turd that is MoBIE really is laughable
        Good try tho Ad. Someone has to stick up for the tragedy known as Joyce

    • James 2.2

      “He needs to be investigated over has actions in the “leaking of financial details into Winston’s private affairs to destroy him.“

      Which are of course unproven at this point.

      • WILD KATIPO 2.2.1

        I take it you subscribe to the ‘Peter Pan’ principle that no one did it and it just ‘popped out of thin air ‘…. much like fairy dust , perhaps…

        • james 2.2.1.1

          No – but Im not so ideologically blind to assume that it couldn’t have been somebody else.

          but assuming someone is guilty without any evidence to back it up is all OK if its someone you dont like huh?

          • Muttonbird 2.2.1.1.1

            Perhaps you subscribe to Joyce’s own theory, that it was the Greens.

          • WILD KATIPO 2.2.1.1.2

            No ones being ‘ ideologically blind’ here , cobber .

            When official organizations rely on vetting to gain an insight on an individual they more often than not review past track records to ascertain any likelihood of any unsuitability for a position.

            And judging by said politicians past track record?

            Well. I’ll leave that up to you.

  3. Keepcalmcarryon 3

    I want my irrigation fund back and the Mackenzie country restored.
    Giving public money from asset sales to private individuals for their gain at terrible cost to the environment is neither clever nor right.
    Say no to drugs btw

  4. We need more like Stephen Joyce?

    Maybe we need more like Herbert Hoover as well… complete with an uncaring attitude for thousands of his countrymen and women in opposing Roosevelts New Deal.

    And in that , we had the counterpart in Stephen Joyce.

    Try a Jeremy Corbyn next time , Ad.

    All in the Family Theme Song – YouTube
    all in the family theme song▶ 0:54

    • Ad 4.1

      When Corbyn’s actually done something I’ll do one on him.

      • WILD KATIPO 4.1.1

        Oh ,… and he has not?…

        I was under the impression that he has raised the popularity of Labour , particularly among the young after years of that party declining , championed a social democratic manifesto that challenges the neo liberal narrative and narrowly missed defeating Theresa May and sinking the Tories…

        Watch this space for the next general election in England , perhaps.

    • OncewasTim 4.2

      Can I ask a str8 question of you Ad?
      Are you just trying to be contrarian in your post or do you really believe in Mr Fixit and what is, and has become one of the public service’s biggest bugger’s muddles since the 80s reforms.
      It’s a genuine question @Ad

  5. adam 5

    I wonder if you actually have dealt with this new ministry you speak highly of Ad.

    It’s mantra is “Obtuse”. I deal with it often enough to know many within the new super ministry are ideological hacks (politiest description I can think of) and not civil servants in the classical use of the term. Trying to get a straight answer is like pulling teeth and no one, just no one takes responsibility.

    It has a poorly designed web page, which I’m lucky enough to have another database to hack through it’s content. Most people are not that lucky.

    As a ministry it’s a turd. But many who embrace an economic system which relies on exploitation, probably love it.

    • Ad 5.1

      Its well due for review.
      But highly unlikely to happen.

      Parker’s too stretched, Jones is too coarse a thinker.

      • adam 5.1.1

        Here an example of the idiocy of the Ministry, this is helping push up market rents across Auckland.

        https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/rent-bond-and-bills/market-rent/?location=Waitakere+-+New+Lynn&period=72&action_doSearchValues=Find+Rent

        Now look at the numbers they all small numbers of people actually moving into flats, and places like Crookers use this crap to keep pushing prices up. It’s stupid, and not just a bit *&^% up. Just like Joyce, all ideology no sense.

      • patricia bremner 5.1.2

        “coarse thinker” Shane has a degree and masters and was granted a fellowship at the school of government business at Harvard. But then, perhaps you are obliquely referring to porn?

      • OncewasTim 5.1.3

        Can I ask a str8 question of you Ad?
        Are you just trying to be contrarian in your post or do you really believe in Mr Fixit and what is, and has become one of the public service’s biggest bugger’s muddles since the 80s reforms.
        It’s a genuine question @Ad

  6. AB 6

    No argument that Joyce was effective – and for a long period of time created a convincing (to many) persona of non-nonsense, plain-speaking competence.
    Like Ahab – only his purpose was mad.

    • AB 6.1

      I should add, that I think Joyce’s genius was (along with Key) in shoring up National’s overwhelming appeal to men.

      • KJT 6.1.1

        Didn’t notice it.

        But then I associate with “the men:” , and women, who do real work.

        Entrepreneurs, tradespeople, labourers, technicians, Doctors and Teachers

        I suppose if you are a parasitic spiv, like too many that are making money in New Zealand at present, Joyce would appeal?

        • patricia bremner 6.1.1.1

          1000%

        • AB 6.1.1.2

          Yeah – sort of, though I had Trotter’s ‘Waitakere Man’ more in mind actually.

          • KJT 6.1.1.2.1

            As a former male resident of Waitakere, and a tradesman, I think that stereotype has been done to death, already.

            I saw more political nouse, intellectual curiosity, and tolerance, among the Waitakere working class, than at University.

  7. RedLogix 7

    A mature and thoughtful post Ad; and an effective counterpoint to a lot of the other ideological ranting elsewhere on TS.

    • Nah mate , – reckon he was just taking the piss.

      But then again , I could be wrong, – hell ! – probably even Pres Marcos and his lot did a few good things in their time , the trick is in remembering who suffered because of them…

      • KJT 7.1.1

        Yeah. Fascists are good at making the “trains run on time”.

        National couldn’t even make “the trains run”.

        So.

        Comparing them with Fascists is unfair!

        • WILD KATIPO 7.1.1.1

          🙂

          I’ll remember that next time I read Blips ‘John Keys long list of big fat lies’ and the one in particular Key pulled about the existence of the XKEYSCORE surveillance program…

          It must have all been a bad dream I had on the day …

      • greywarshark 7.1.2

        Red Logix
        Just a little provocative title don’t you think, ‘We need more ministers like Joyce’?
        We need to have less businesses like Fletchers is another title to consider.
        Do you think that if Ministers get business moving and hopefully make a profit, then that justifies anything?

        • greywarshark 7.1.2.1

          It might be interesting to the thoughtful to see this vid from Dennis Potter a few months before he died in 1994. He talks about the great media businessman Rupert Murdoch. He is very successful but Potter points out what a poisonous sort of business that is.

          (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnVrK38xI-A

          • RedLogix 7.1.2.1.1

            Of course within the context of a National govt’s priorities, and especially compared to John Key’s fundamentally lazy legacy, none of us were ever going to approve of the outcomes.

            But Ad is making the simple point that every govt needs effective and capable Ministers with both vision and the ability to get things done. Joyce clearly ticked both those boxes and it’s churlish not to recognise this … and the need for similar talent in this present govt.

            • greywarshark 7.1.2.1.1.1

              RL
              Well it would be good if Ad could present similar to your summation of what is needed as the main point, and say that the Labour coalition should look to Joyce as a measure of how high they need to jump. It seemed more like a paean of praise to this peon.

              • RedLogix

                and say that the Labour coalition should look to Joyce as a measure of how high they need to jump.

                Yes … I like that. The right intentions are important, but the ability to constructively translate big ideas into big results is less common than we suppose.

                • greywarshark

                  I cannot agree more Red Logix, but that shouldn’t be taken to mean that I cannot agree any more with you. Oh how confusing words can be.

    • veutoviper 7.2

      I cannot agree more, RedLogix.

  8. Sparky 8

    Given the left will be dead after March 8 whats to stop him joining Nat 2.0…..?

    And yes he did some some positive things…..

    • So what if he did?

      I’m sure there’s ample other people who could have done exactly the same things and STILL not colluded with his inner core in stomping all over low income earners.

      No sympathy for any of them , I’m afraid. People suffered because of that odious bunch and this country has never before seen a more corrupt govt that the last National one.

      • Sparky 8.1.1

        You really think the current govt is any different…..90 day law (still here), TPP11, obscure policy on the poor and needy…..?

        That said if any politician does the right thing I see no reason not to offer praise…

        • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1.1

          I Joyce had done the ‘right thing’ then he would have protested at Key and English’s policy’s that enriched the wealthy but left so many suffering as a direct result of those same policy’s.

          But he didn’t. He actively participated with that govt. As a senior voice as well.

          So no chocolate fish for Joyce I’m afraid.

        • greywarshark 8.1.1.2

          Sparky
          First you have to be interested enough to see what they are doing. Do you care?

        • patricia bremner 8.1.1.3

          Sparky, win some lose some. NZ First is right of centre, Labour centre and Greens Left of centre.
          So we have to expect down the middle for most things.
          .

  9. Siobhan 9

    I guess this answers your question “How should the Standard adapt to the new Government?”…apparently by singing the praises of the previous National Governments Ministers.

    It shows how far to the Right, Labour, and some of their supporters, have slipped if praising Stephen Joyce, or any other National Party Idealogue is ‘a thing’ other than clickbait.

    • Sparky 9.1

      A good point Siobhan. I think we are in the same place now where the US is. I remember one commentator said the Dems had taken the place of the Republicans and the Republicans had simply moved further right.

      • veutoviper 9.1.1

        Oh well, Sparky – only two more days until the sky falls in.

        Two days because you have to factor in the time difference between NZ and Chile.

        To help you prepare, NZ is 16 hours ahead of Chile so 10am/5pm Thurs 8 March in Chile are 2am/9am Friday, 9 March in NZ.

        • WILD KATIPO 9.1.1.1

          No , no , no noooo , silly ,… the internet punters say the end happens this year 2018. That fact that they give 365 consecutive days in a row in which this will all happen is irrelevant.

          Don’t you believe what the interweb people say on the matter or something?

          • veutoviper 9.1.1.1.1

            Well Sparky @ 8 above believes that the left will be dead after March 8. I just thought I would point out that we have another 16 hours because of the time difference between NZ and Chile. So you think we may have a bit longer?

            And you have been sparking well today LOL.
            Keep it going, red spider!

            • WILD KATIPO 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Huh ?…

              All I’m saying is the sky’s gonna fall on our heads… one day in 2018,… or 2019 ,… or 2020… sometime… some day ,… maybe. Sort off.

  10. Muttonbird 10

    Great satire post!

  11. Zorb6 11

    A person I know who works at M.B.I.E has crinkly hair,loves big screen T.V and appreciates sculptures.She thinks Joyce is wonderful too.

  12. Anne 12

    I’m with AD on this one.

    Joyce is a businessman and an exceedingly good one at that. He ran his portfolios like he would run a business. I didn’t like everything he did by a long shot – and he did some of it at the expense of the have-nots – but there’s a place in a democracy such as ours for quality businessmen to leave their mark too.

    Now we have a government that will re-dress the balance by placing a greater emphasis on lifting the poor and disadvantaged to a level where they can also play their part in society.

    That’s what democracy looks like is it not?

    • … ” but there’s a place in a democracy such as ours for quality businessmen to have their turn ” …

      Stephen Joyce also once owned MediaWorks.

      MediaWorks went under financial difficulty. They were then bailed out by the National govt. A privately owned media was bailed out by the taxpayer. Corporate welfare .

      Stephen Joyce was a senior in the Key led govt. He was also Minister for Communications and Information Technology .

      So Stephen Joyce was a Minister with nationwide media connections who could send a quiet word to have John Campbell / Campbell Live axed when Campbell was making serious investigations into the setting up for deportation of Kim Dotcom .

      And once Campbell Live was axed it was replaced with a failed chintzy show in that time slot and Mark Weldon , – another Nat sycophant , – was given the position of CEO.

      I don’t know about you lot , – but if you cant join the dots and see the devious Machiavellian hand of Stephen Joyce operating in an industry he knew backwards along with knowing all the main players and influencing public opinion – including during an election – well , I dont know what to say.

      The man was dangerous.

      Its that simple.

      Dissecting the GCSB bill – Campbell Live (Kim Dotcom scandal …
      Video for Dissecting the GCSB bill – Campbell Live (Kim Dotcom scandal)▶ 16:11

      John Key discusses Dotcom saga – YouTube
      Video for John Key discusses Dotcom saga▶ 17:29

      • patricia bremner 12.1.1

        Yes, so partisan behaviour was rife, but under reported by his friends, who now accuse Labour of the same.

        • WILD KATIPO 12.1.1.1

          Yep and for a long while the formula worked magic. That is , until Key ditched the roadshow. Then it all imploded from then on in… with the final death rattle taken when Adern came in…

          However, just like other privileged elites, they don’t go down easily and still have their agents in strategic places…

    • Puckish Rogue 12.2

      Hey hey hey we don’t like that sort of reasoned comment around here, consider yourself told off 🙂

      • WILD KATIPO 12.2.1

        That’s right , – we like ’em with a little bit of wink wink, nudge nudge say no more ‘Spiv’ about them , don’t we , Puck…

    • KJT 12.3

      Quality businessman?

      Joyce is a “fine representative’ of the breed of neo-liberal “businessmen”, who make their money by finding ever more creative ways of ripping off their clients, and tax payers, while contributing, nothing!

    • greywarshark 12.4

      Not enough Anne – we must have Labour involved in business too. They can’t be just a charity that comes awake when the country is policy-riven and in despair.
      Labour can pursue parallel policies for the people, exploring options, ensuring that busy small agencies keep on getting funding, assisting micro business, providing capital in small amounts when it can grow, keeping investment returns in NZ, ensuring training is done and setting up eager skilled work gangs for seasonal work etc., and that there is a way for people who care to help those who have difficulties and stop that number expanding.

      We should have proof that they aren’t just a bunch of wannabe aristocrats, or technocrats and meritocats!

      From google
      Technocracy and Populism – The New Atlantis
      https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/technocracy-and-populism
      Problematically, this meritocratic revolution potentially creates yet another even more austere aristocracy tempered by neither moral obligation, divine law, nor custom. Tocqueville might be right that while democracy “loosens social bonds…it tightens natural bonds,” but technocratic governance denies the goodness of …
      https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/technocracy-and-populism

      Populism & Technocracy.
      Technocracy stresses responsibility and requires voters to entrust authority to experts who identify the general interest from rational speculation. Populism stresses responsiveness and requires voters to delegate authority to leaders who equate the general interest with a putative will of the people. While the populist form of representation has received considerable attention, the technocratic one has been neglected. The article presents a more complete picture of the analytical relationship between them.
      american political science review

  13. greywarshark 13

    Note to Ad: Careful not to lodge tongue too far in cheek – may be irreversible and seem to be a bridges too far for a leftie. Do you like Bridges too by the way?
    I’m sure he has good qualities.

  14. With all due respect, Ad, I feel that Idiot/Savant’s assessment of Joyce is closer to the mark!

    “Fuck up fucks off
    Having failed to attract more than a handful of votes in the National Party leadership contest, Steven Joyce is retiring from politics. Good riddance. While he somehow had a reputation as a “Mr fix-it”, like Gerry Brownlee Joyce fucked almost everything he touched. He fucked up transport by starving the regions of funding to build pointless superhighways in Auckland for the trucking industry. He fucked up science and innovation by stealing funding from CRIs, then making them compete for it all over again as laughably underfunded “national science challenges”. He fucked up tertiary education by limiting access to loans and allowances, creating a teacher shortage which is going to last for years. He fucked up economic development by signing a crony deal with SkyCity allowing them more pokie machines for an undersized and unnecessary convention centre. And he fucked up finance by being memorably unable to count during the election campaign. This isn’t a record any politician should be proud of, and I am glad he’s fucked off, so the only thing he can fuck up anymore is himself.”

    Posted by Idiot/Savant at 3/06/2018 04:05:00 PM

    • Ad 14.1

      Well, by election 2020, the National Convention Centre will have opened, the Americas Cup Louis Vuitton Cup will be in swing, road freight will not have to grind through Hamilton or Huntly on its way to the ports, Wellington will have an alternative future-proofed access, huge areas of Auckland will have been developed for industry and housing through PPPs, broadband rollout is finished, more dairy processing factories will continue popping up, and all of that on top of three election campaigns trouncing the left easily. By 2020, those aren’t fuckups, they are a collective national transformation. Most of it will be claimed by the Labour government, as is their right.

      • KJT 14.1.1

        Well, by election 2020: another underutilized convention centre subsidised by ratepayers will have opened; The Americas Cup Louis Vuitton Cup will be in swing, thanks to New Zealand’s sophisticated boat building industry, that National has almost destroyed, with their overpriced dollar, (Kept that way to give an illusion of prosperity with cheap TV’s); Road freight will have to grind through, the soon to be overcapacity, new highways on its way to the ports, (because there will never be sufficient roads and underfunded rail will need millions in investment); Wellington gains a new 50k parking lot; huge areas of Auckland will have been turned into slums full of identical rabbit hutch houses through PPPs; broadband roll-out has enriched the company where Joyce will be looking for a directorship (After cost blowouts); More dairy processing factories will continue popping up, to use all the extra milk we cannot sustainably produce; and all of that on top of three election campaigns won by smokes and mirrors, and pretending to be “Socialist” (What the more unsophisticated of us, call, lying like flatfish!).

        Fixed it for you.

        “By 2020, those aren’t fuckups, they are a collective national transformation”.

        What fucking planet, are you on?

        • Ad 14.1.1.1

          Here’s the simple rationale and route from NZTA for the full Waikato programme from Auckland to Cambridge. Many sections are completed already.

          The Transmission Gully flythrough can be seen here, and there are plenty of progress timelapses available on Youtube.

          If you look back you will find that the high dollar has been sustained since the dollar was floated in the 1980s. The collapse of the boatbuilding industry was due to that fact that no one was buying them for five years after the GFC, and our industry failed to adapt. Nevertheless, those that have remained are globally dominant in their niche equipment areas. Such as those supplying AM 36 boats.

          Broadband rollout was never going to be done for free, and has enriched the lives of all its millions of users.

          If you don’t like PPPs, good for you. We don’t have public capital to build enough houses. Twyford knows that, and is going to use all financial instruments that he can lay his hands on.

          It is going to be hard for the hard left, but then it usually is.

          • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1.1.1

            ”If you look back you will find that the high dollar has been sustained since the dollar was floated in the 1980s.”

            And that’s why its hurt exporters like farmers who have no option but to borrow to excess leaving no margins but to produce on an unsustainable level . And another reason why we have so many Australian banks who siphon vast amounts of cash out of this country annually . And yet another reason why so much of the ‘public capital’ doesn’t exist sufficiently to ‘build enough houses’.

            Throw in a few tax cuts for the corporate’s , that use public funding to foot the losses while privatizing the profits and voila ! What have you got?

            All sorts of neo liberal excuses as to why public health, housing , education and other essential services cannot be provided.

            And the root causes go right back to its Genesis: 1984.

          • KJT 14.1.1.1.2

            I know why boatbuilding collapsed. And it was nothing to do with the GFC.
            I was there.

            The dollar would have dropped without excessive immigration, and high interest rates, compared with the rest of the world. That was deliberate policy.

            We had plenty of public finance for housing when State houses were first built.

            But. Rabid right wingers are incapable of seeing fiance options that do not make foreign banks rich.

            Ad. You wouldn’t know a “hard leftie” if you fell over one. If you are part of the “Labour” party, it shows how far they have lost their way.

            I am a capitalist former business owner and I still work for a large corporate, fortunately a somewhat more ethical one, than some. ., That knows the business I work in relies on a fully functioning society. “Hard left” FFS.

            • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1.1.2.1

              ,,, ” The dollar would have dropped without excessive immigration, and high interest rates, compared with the rest of the world. That was deliberate policy. We had plenty of public finance for housing when State houses were first built ” …

              ———————————-

              Ha! – that whole ‘financial crisis’ surrounding the outgoing Muldoon govt and the incoming Lange govt thing was a construct .

              The same thing happened with the Bolger govt.

              Its all been a complete and utter con job from start to finish . And THIS is how they did it. And we’ve all been paying for these leeches ever since …

              ——————————————————–

              A key point of the free-market cabal’s programme was to devalue the New Zealand dollar, an extremely sensitive issue. Several weeks before the July, 1984 election, Douglas, Labour’s shadow finance minister, “accidentally” released a statement which signaled his intent to devalue. Since it was a near certainty that Labour, aided by the New Zealand Party’s drawing votes from the Nationals, would win, speculators began to dump the New Zealand dollar, planning, post-devaluation, to cash in each dollar of foreign currency for more New Zealand dollars than previously.

              With Labour’s victory, the simmering foreign exchange crisis exploded. The Reserve Bank’s Foreign Exchange holdings quickly ran dry, and Labour demanded, even before the end of the several-week transition period, that Muldoon devalue. After a brief struggle, Muldoon capitulated, and devalued by 20%.
              Speculators made tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars overnight.

              According to economist David Steele, writing in the March/April 1990 edition of the PSA Journal, shortly before the election, a three man delegation from the Business Roundtable, two of whom were Mont Pelerin members Gibbs and Kerr, met with National Party leader, and soon to be Prime Minister, Jim Bolger, to “request” that Ruth Richardson, a Mont Pelerin asset, be made Finance Minister in his new government.

              ———————————————————

              Extracts from :

              New Right Fight – Who are the New Right?
              http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/pageA.html

              • The above is meant to demonstrate just why our coffers always seem to be inconveniently empty whenever public infrastructure is concerned…

                The Global ‘ Credit Crunch’ which came much later was simply a symptom of neo liberal free market and an unregulated banking/lending environment .

            • Ad 14.1.1.1.2.2

              My experience of the boatbuilding industry in west Auckland is that customers dried up real fast after 2008. We worked pretty closely with the government to get a superyacht servicing industry sustained in Hobsonville, with Helen Clark and Jim Anderton,, and the good staff at the MED, but that was also undone by the Hobsonville-based boatbuilder going backrupt. Then Erceg went under. Then Salthouse, and all the rest went like a pack of cards, all around the same time. Answer was the same: no customers.

              The dollar did not drop. Forget your counterfactuals.

              Great to hear you are still in business.

              • KJT

                Of course the dollar did not drop. It should have, given our terms of trade.
                That is what “floating” a currency is supposed to do, after all.

                And that is why the boatbuilders failed.

                If the reserve bank act, immigration and house lending hadn’t kept our dollar artificially high, New Zealand boat builders would have been more than competitive.

      • WILD KATIPO 14.1.2

        Again , – so what ?

        There seems to be a confusion about a politicians achievements and their personal characteristics and ideology’s. I’m sure we could quote many leaders past and present who were ‘ achievers’. But two questions remain – at what cost to a large demographic that suffered under that govt and just who were the ultimate financial benefactors of Joyce’s grand schemes?

        The poor? Those kicked out of their state house ? Those family’s living in garages ? the beneficiary’s who were bullied and humiliated at a govt dept ? and on and on it goes…

        Yet all that time Joyce was waving his magic wand and making things happen he was more than helping to support that same govt and endorsing it wholeheartedly .

        Autobahns spring to mind…

        • Ad 14.1.2.1

          He would have been interesting in the housing portfolio, but he never got the chance.

          The ultimate benefactors of the big transport schemes are people using them. It’s usually measured in time and safety benefits first off, but there are wider benefits that get more diffuse.

          • WILD KATIPO 14.1.2.1.1

            …’The ultimate benefactors of the big transport schemes are people using them ‘ …

            Like trucking firms.

            As for the other commuters who don’t haul heavy freight and dont destroy the roads , they get to fume ( and breathe in fumes ) behind these roaring behemoths.

            Funny how Europe is still quite big on rail and we are not…

            Still , if your a ‘quality businessman ‘ , I guess first things come first and making that moola by hauling those loads long distance on roads is one of them. It helps to have a sympathetic ear from your man in parliament who is also a ‘quality businessman ‘, I guess…

            • Ad 14.1.2.1.1.1

              The ultimate benefactors of the big transport schemes are everyone, but sure, that includes trucking firms. It definitely seemed the case that Joyce listened to business interests pretty closely. But then again, that was his job.

              • And yet the cash that could have been diverted to ease the poverty of so many and develop our social infrastructure , – was allocated to roading upgrades instead (that rail could have easily handled ) to stay in step with the transport company’s and their CEO’s , meanwhile – the poorer sectors of society (and poorer regions like Northland ) could all go jump in the lake.

                Does it never occur to people that we are having our legs pulled constantly in this country ???

                • Ad

                  Road transport funding is dedicated just to transport. Been like that since they did hypothecated fuel taxes.

                  Got no argument from me about the last government and poverty.

                  • Yes indeedy , allocations are just that ; sectors of the budgetary slice.

                    Including roading. But so also is rail.

                    I guess I’m looking at why so much emphasis on one area when there are obvious answers to long distance heavy freighting ( rail ) … and juxtaposed against the poverty ie : record homelessness etc etc …under National… they persisted in that instead of looking at real effective measures to combat that poverty.

                    It just never did add up especially when even the OECD repeatedly pointed that out in its reports on New Zealand levels of poverty.

              • greywarshark

                You sound so right wing with that sort of explanation Ad. Everyone benefits from the big transport schemes. What bosh.

      • Muttonbird 14.1.3

        Let me get this straight. You celebrate dairy intensification and openly want more of it?

        You’re on the wrong site, mate.

    • Sacha 14.3

      Link to I/S blogpost: http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2018/03/fuck-up-fucks-off.html
      Please do not paste entire articles from other sites here.

    • Ad 15.1

      You be the judge 🙂

    • greywarshark 15.2

      But did he get the trains running on time?

      • KJT 15.2.1

        Nah. Couldn’t even get the “trains to run”.

        • Ad 15.2.1.1

          Joyce loathed trains.
          Forced to bail Kiwirail out multiple times, only to be asked for more bailouts the following year.
          Actively opposed Auckland’s City Rail Link.

          • KJT 15.2.1.1.1

            How much did he spend on “bailing out’ the trucking industry, with roads?

            • Ad 15.2.1.1.1.1

              He certainly supported all users of the motorway system.

              Every user of the transport system, whether road or rail, gets dumptrucks of subsidy from the taxpayer, every time they use it.

              • KJT

                Like all of the right wing, you fail to realise the value of a public utility, is not it’s cost. It is the cost of not having it.

                Rail has much greater value because it saves the cost in land use, pollution, and environmental degradation attached to roads. But you wouldn’t think so by the much greater amount given to roading that subsidises trucks.

                By the way. Coastal shipping is not only, not subsidised, it is treated as a cash cow by MNZ, Government, and the owners of ports.

                • Ad

                  I’ve worked on transport infrastructure, financing, and infrastructure politics for a wee bit. But cheers for the pamphlet pointers.

                  Joyce was never in charge of coastal shipping.

                  Great to hear you favour heavy rail. Me too.

              • And yet a family car can in no way be compared to a fully laden logging truck in the damage it causes to roads…

                So just who benefits in a disproportionate sort of way here ?

                Joe Blow in his family car or the trucking firm…?

                • Ad

                  That depends on how you value crash (death and injury) eliminations, road maintenance, urban impact, and journey time reliablility, from using the new expressways.

                  Personally I would have preferred that Joyce favour rail over motorways, but they all needed doing.

  15. Stuart Munro 16

    Not sure about the fibre roll out either. We’ve had it down our way, on paper at least, since this time last year. Signed up for broadband in October – still waiting for it.

    • I live in a street not far from Auckland central currently and we still have copper and wont have fiber optics til much later.

      You’ve got to hand it to many of the farmers, though ,… many of them just backhoed with their tractors and got the job done after getting pissed off with waiting.

  16. Puckish Rogue 17

    Good post 🙂

  17. Pat 18

    We need more Ministers like Steven Joyce….like we need a hole in the head

  18. red-blooded 19

    Joyce was good at what he did for a long time. I don’t like a lot of what he did – in particular the irrigation and dairy intensification. A big focus of the last election was the state of our waterways, and Joyce has been an active part of the process that’s seen them further and further degraded.

    I don’t live near any of the big roading schemes, but I do think a stronger focus on public transport and rail makes sense.

    As for the fibre roll-out, that was started under Labour. Joyce helped to run it reasonably efficiently, and it was a focus of the Nats, but it wasn’t only their work.

    His electoral tactics worked when the Nats had key fronting them, but he seemed to have a limited bag of tricks and he couldn’t adapt when circumstances changed. The blue joggers were just a rehash of the blue rowing team, and the decision to target NZF was stupid, especially given the change in Labour leadership. And as for the $11.7 million hole… That was desperation and it was despicable.

    • …” and the decision to target NZF was stupid, especially given the change in Labour leadership ” …

      That decision was made under the auspices of both Key and English , Key saying he would never include NZ First in his govt , unfortunately for both English and Joyce, things changed rapidly after Key left… then along came Adern and then the leak , … in a fit of arrogance and feeling of invulnerability that Dunne, the Maori party were forever,… someone leaked the info ,…

      As for the hole?, – the media played up Joyce and English as hard as they could but even they couldn’t hold back the economists who said it was total bolderdash.

      Now if they could lie about that so baldfaced to the public, – what else did they lie about during those 9 years?

      And that’s only the MSM of NZ…

      Get the picture?

      • red-blooded 19.1.1

        What was it in my comment that suggested I didn’t get the picture, WK?

        And Key had been out of the picture for about 10 months before the election – that’s about 9 months before the change in Labour leadership. The failure here was Joyce’s and English’s and the rest of their team.

        Plus, to be fair to the media, Joyce and English were mocked and confronted by most commentators and political journalists when they were making ridiculous claims about fiscal holes. The financial journalists were on the case quickly and the economists who were called on were unequivocal and were widely reported. Even Hoskings confronted English about it in the televised leaders’ debate after their played that desperate last card.

        • WILD KATIPO 19.1.1.1

          Lol, – was agreeing with you. The ‘ get the picture’ was just an underlining of the above statements. Sorry bout that turn of phrase , guess it was open to misinterpretation.

          As for the anti Winnie thing , it was a culture within Nats back when Key was around, English and Joyce just carried the baton onwards.

          But as for the media?… they certainly were up the Nats butt for a good 9 years and we had bootlicker after bootlicker filling the radio waves, TV screens and daily rags on a daily basis: Hosking comes to mind and his ilk , Fran O’Sullivan another…

          • Antoine 19.1.1.1.1

            When we’ve seen the next Budget, I might believe there’s no fiscal hole.

            A.

  19. Tony P 20

    Novopay is not fixed. There are still mistakes every fortnight with teacher’s pay. It’s still a dog of a system.

  20. Drowsy M. Kram 21

    Joyce championed the down-sizing of University councils, stacking them with political appointees at the expense of student, staff and community representation. This was one more step in the commercialisation of a notionally independent public tertiary education/research sector, with predictable effects on institutional quality and integrity.

    Like so many of his ilk, Steven’s mantra was ‘milk that cash cow, now – someone else can clean up the mess later.’ An object lesson in unsustainable practices.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/govts-university-council-plan-slammed

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11241853

  21. D'Esterre 22

    “Steven Joyce also amalgamated dozens of different departments together to form the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. This Department is now the primary go-to shop for advice and action if you want to get stuff done. They are the default regulator, funder, and shaper of much of our current economy, including housing, and our entire innovation ecosystem.”

    Hahaha! much raucous laughter in this household at that confident assertion. Nobody we know who has to deal with MBIE agrees with you. It was well-intentioned, but misguided on Joyce’s part to try an amalgamation of this sort. Doomed to failure before it even got under way.

    “Steven Joyce got Transmission Gully motorway going, together with Mackay to Pekapeka. It had almost nothing to do with Peter Dunne, and everything to do with Joyce while Minister of Transport.”

    Yes. We know full well that Joyce must shoulder the blame for the unmitigated disaster that is the Kapiti expressway. And Transmission Gully: bidding fair to become as much of a disaster as the expressway, and for broadly similar reasons.

  22. joe90 23

    Steven Joyce is like a front-row forward in New Zealand:

    Indeed.

    The Hiding Hand principle is the idea that when a person decides to take on a project, the ignorance of future obstacles allows the person to rationally choose to undertake the project, and once it is underway the person will creatively overcome the obstacles because it is too late to abandon the project.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiding_hand_principle

  23. David Mac 24

    Ha! What a hoot.

    I think Ad has got his tongue in his cheek and highlighting something that grates on me too.

    ‘Oh look someone in a Red T-Shirt with a green stripe’…”Hello I love you.”

    ‘Oh look someone in a Blue T-Shirt with a yellow stripe’…”Die you exploitive pig.”

    We all care about the same things.

  24. newsense 25

    Who was responsible for labour inspectors?
    Who was responsible for the Indian education immigration debacle?
    Who oversaw the rankings drop of our universities and the H.R. departments which cost us top talent?

    We need someone who combines abilities to get projects done with a much greater understanding of what constitutes New Zealand and who is important.
    It’s great we are going to get a convention centre, maybe. Should we have been giving up TVNZ premises to do it?

    I’d also contest the bit about no ego! ‘Minister of everything!’

    It’s his job to get things done. If a lot of his colleagues were incompetent (and ministers in the past were), it doesn’t make a base competency worthy of enormous praise.

  25. Antoine 26

    Labour doesnt need Steven Joyce. But it needs several senior Ministers who could do the kinds of things that Steven Joyce could do. At present I’m not seeing any.

    A.

  26. Pat 27

    a more thoughtful (and accurate ) assessment of ex minister Joyce

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/03/gordon-campbell-on-the-departure-of-steven-joyce/

  27. byd0nz 28

    Goodbye, good riddence,
    Steven dildo Joyce,
    How great it will be,
    Not to hear his voice.
    His arrogance past on,
    To the younger Nats,
    He’s been put out to pasture,
    with those other Key rats.
    Like English and Key,
    His contributions were sent,
    Not to ordinary Nzeders, but
    To the elite one percent.
    No one will loose sleep over him,
    Into oblivion he’ll slip,
    The only smart thing he has done,
    Is to jump from the Nat-sinking ship.

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    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: An industry in denial
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The “most open and transparent government ever” again
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    1 week ago
  • Gordon Campbell on farmers playing the victim, plus Chile’s right turn
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  • Important People
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  • Parliament, the Courts and the end of three strikes (for now)
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  • NZ Politics Daily: 23 November 2021
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  • Dissing The Farmers.
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  • (Lack of) Public Service Announcement: The National Library of New Zealand, Internet Archive, and Al...
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    1 week ago
  • Game over for the HRPP
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
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  • Chinese influence and American hate diffusion.
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    1 week ago
  • NZ Politics Daily: 22 November 2021
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  • Free speech is a people’s frank confession to itself
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    1 week ago
  • 2021 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #47
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  • The F Words, by Barbara Gregorich
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  • The Scourge of the Aimless Kick
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  • Delta Rocks Gibraltar: Lessons to be learned from Covid-19’s global resurgence.
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  • I’ll take the masks and vaccines, thank you
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    2 weeks ago
  • A Peak Out of Auckland? + Other Covid Musings
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  • Sing Song about Hard Times
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  • A good problem to have
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    2 weeks ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the politics of anger, plus a music playlist
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    2 weeks ago

  • More Vietnam Veterans to receive compensation for Agent Orange Exposure
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    9 hours ago
  • Government commits to international effort to ban and regulate killer robots
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    10 hours ago
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    11 hours ago
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  • Grace period for expired driver licences cruises into 2022
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    12 hours ago
  • Delivered: 1,000 extra transitional homes
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  • Traffic light levels announced
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    1 day ago
  • Financial support to move to traffic light system
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  • New Ambassador to Russia announced
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  • New Permanent Representative to the UN announced
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    2 days ago
  • Further COVID-19 economic support for Cook Islands and Fiji announced
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    2 days ago
  • New law will clear the air for tamariki in vehicles
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    3 days ago
  • Nine countries designated very high risk
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  • Foreign Affairs Minister concludes final stage of world trip
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    3 days ago
  • Milestone launch of Pacific Languages Unit
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    3 days ago
  • Public Health Lecture – University of Otago
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    4 days ago
  • New Zealand statement on situation in Honiara, Solomon Islands
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    4 days ago
  • Nailed it! Over 500 apprentices get jobs boost
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    4 days ago
  • Investment to support maternal mental health
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    4 days ago
  • Workplace vaccination requirements extended to cover Police and NZ Defence Force
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    5 days ago
  • Aotearoa New Zealand and Canada to pursue greater Indigenous collaboration
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    5 days ago
  • Māori vaccination rates reach 80% first dose
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    5 days ago
  • Subsequent Children legislation to change
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    5 days ago
  • Security Information in Proceedings Legislation Bill introduced to Parliament
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    5 days ago
  • Shortcomings revealed in power cut investigation
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  • COVID-19 Protection Framework supported by new testing and contact tracing strategy
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    5 days ago
  • Supporting New Zealanders to recover from COVID-19 in the community
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  • Additional support for people isolating at home
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    5 days ago
  • Tax bill provides vital support for families
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    6 days ago
  • New text service to support disabled peoples’ vaccinations
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  • Proactive Calendar Release – October 2021
    ...
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  • Pacific community reach vaccination milestone
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  • Reconnecting New Zealand – the next steps
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  • Shot in the arm for Canterbury tourism
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    6 days ago
  • Combined efforts connecting locals to nature
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    6 days ago
  • Empowering Diverse Communities
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    7 days ago
  • Moriori Claims Settlement Bill passes Third Reading
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    1 week ago
  • Permanent drug-checking law passed and new providers appointed
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  • Pacific communities supported to transition to the COVID-19 Protection Framework
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  • Government helps Pasifika Festivals to ride the COVID wave
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