Who is trying to shut down Hager defence fund?

191 comments on “Who is trying to shut down Hager defence fund? ”

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1. Tracey 1

   10 October 2014 at 8:08 am

   me too.

   It suggests they know only too well what money can buy you in the justice/political system.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     10 October 2014 at 9:24 am

     They’ve known that for a long time – just look at all their cries about unions from union members each week. They know that a lot of people giving a little each can swing far more money than they can and that’s why the Left needs to go back to having mass parties with each member giving a little each week but also having a direct say in policy formulation and party direction.
     • Tracey 1.1.1

       10 October 2014 at 9:32 am

       and someone to see the union infrastructure as a strength rather than an embarrassment
     • kiwisaver 1.1.2

       10 October 2014 at 6:44 pm

       Totally agree!!
2. boldsirbrian 2

   10 October 2014 at 8:35 am

   Those opposing the fundraising are probably just as concerned with the large number of donors, prepared to make a substantial donation (about $40 on average) to Nicky. It’s a major acknowledgement of the deep rooted support for Hager.

   Mr. Botany (B.)
   • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

     10 October 2014 at 8:48 am

     So many people to track down and vilify, the problem’s out of control. Really, the donors are all like gang members participating in organised crime. The Police must find out their identities for us.
     • wekarawshark 2.1.1

       10 October 2014 at 10:06 am

       wouldn’t that be a better job for the spooks, seeing as how they have all the data already?
     • lprent 2.1.2

       10 October 2014 at 10:07 am

       Yes they really need to get a law on the books for “Intimidation by donating”

       /sarc
       • Colonial Rawshark 2.1.2.1

         10 October 2014 at 2:37 pm

         Although it’s not really a joke as I think they already have such laws in the US and UK. Along the lines of providing significant or material support to individuals or groups engaged in activities against national security.

         In Australia a whole lot of measures are now in place attacking journalists who report pieces which might be interpreted as undermining national security.
         • swordfish 2.1.2.1.1

           10 October 2014 at 2:53 pm

           For the Australian situation see:

           ABC’s Media Watch….http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4101446.htm

           Also……http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4092673.htm and http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4096977.htm for the Australian News Media’s fabricated terror scares over recent weeks (including the one that might just have played a minor role in what appears to have been a late swing back to National in the final week of the Election campaign on this side of the Tas).

           The Murdoch Press, in particular, has much to answer for (but then we already knew that didn’t we).
   • Jenk 2.2

     10 October 2014 at 8:53 am

     boldsirbrian – this is way off subject, but why do you have Mr.Botany(B) at the end of your posts ?
     • Ben Clark 2.2.1

       10 October 2014 at 9:11 am

       You don’t know the AA Milne poem? it’s a classic!
       • Not a PS Shark Sashimi 2.2.1.1

         10 October 2014 at 9:25 am

         Thanks for that BC. A lovely start to the day.
       • greywarshark 2.2.1.2

         10 October 2014 at 10:09 am

         @ Ben Clark 9.11
         I think AA Milne has a great way with words and rhythm.

         Sir Brian had a pair of boots with great big spurs on;.
         A fighting pair of which he was particularly fond….

         Sir Brian woke one morning and he couldn’t find his battleaxe.
         He walked into the village in his second pair of boots.
         He had gone a hundred paces
         When the street was full of faces
         And the villagers were round him with ironical salutes.
     • boldsirbrian 2.2.2

       10 October 2014 at 9:32 am

       I was “Brian”. But after a week or two, I realised I wasn’t the only ‘Brian”. I changed my name to ‘boldsirbrian’. But I decided it needed a little balance

       Refer A.A.Milne “When we were very young”
       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKoL-fVMm5A
       Reading the book is even better. The illustrations are delightful.

       If it’s generally annoying, I’ll drop it. A little bit of A.A.Milne is however a good antidote to the world? (Along with Leunig)

       Mr. Botany (B.)
       • Tracey 2.2.2.1

         10 October 2014 at 9:34 am

         post however you like

         bold sir brian
         • Melanie Scott 2.2.2.1.1

           10 October 2014 at 12:29 pm

           as brave as a lion
           • Murray Rawshark 2.2.2.1.1.1

             11 October 2014 at 12:53 am

             just don’t bop us on the head
       • Jenk 2.2.2.2

         10 October 2014 at 9:40 am

         Now that I’ve re-read AA Milne – Yep ! I agree PS Shark S – that’s a lovely start to the day …… quite cheering after reading dismal MSM news ! Thanks Sir B too.
       • Lindsey 2.2.2.3

         10 October 2014 at 12:37 pm

         One of my first exposures to socialism – as a very young person. Stayed with me for all of my life. I recommend that all parents read this beauty to children.
3. One Anonymous Bloke 3

   10 October 2014 at 8:45 am

   The wingnut hatred won’t stop at frothing and whining. There will be hate attacks against “Meg” – if they can discover her identity, and an attempt to criminalise public fundraising for legal costs wouldn’t surprise me, given ubiquitous wingnut ignorance of the law.
   • Tracey 3.1

     10 October 2014 at 8:48 am

     I think her full identity is well known. I wonder if Slater has contacted his ex prostitute friend to dig up dirt on Meg?
   • lprent 3.2

     10 October 2014 at 9:16 am

     Meg is old friend of mine, as are her kids.

     I think that if she starts having attacks against her from arseholes with a “very special kind of wingnut hatred”, then I may have to release my habitual restraint and really start focusing on the perpetrators.
     • RedLogix 3.2.1

       10 October 2014 at 9:51 am

       An “lprent Attack Fund” would get my interest as well.
       • Colonial Rawshark 3.2.1.1

         10 October 2014 at 2:45 pm

         Sometimes the best form of defence.
     • Tom Jackson 3.2.2

       10 October 2014 at 9:58 am

       Unleash the beast, lprent! 😉
     • higherstandard 3.2.3

       10 October 2014 at 10:16 am

       Swing that dick, you’ll get everyone hot under the collar.
       • RedLogix 3.2.3.1

         10 October 2014 at 10:31 am

         Lynn has run this blog since 2008 largely on his own resources and energy. Not many people have that level of personal heft.

         I’ve met him once (a few years ago) but it was enough to know that his real-life persona and character is consistent with how he has presented himself here for many years.

         And if Lynn is riled enough to react to wing-nut bullying – then I’ll be there too. It’s called loyalty.
         • higherstandard 3.2.3.1.1

           10 October 2014 at 12:30 pm

           When I think of your personas online i’m always reminded of the scousers.
         • travellerev 3.2.3.1.2

           10 October 2014 at 8:08 pm

           Count me in. Beserker mode me if needed. Iprent and I may not see eye to eye on a lot of stuff but he’s got my loyalty too.
           • Colonial Rawshark 3.2.3.1.2.1

             11 October 2014 at 1:43 am

             Haha yep.
       • Rodel 3.2.3.2

         11 October 2014 at 12:01 am

         HS= You are sooo clever. How do you think up such brilliant contributions to debates? We are overcome with anticipation for your next scholarly pronouncement. Genetically related to Cameron are you? ( sarc)

         But wait1 I’m repeating myself about some other troll.
4. Jenny Kirk 4

   10 October 2014 at 8:57 am

   There’s a lot of hatred around – against Nicky Hager, the left, the greens – its all very sickening. We have become an extremely nasty society. No tolerance at all. A legacy from the days of Rogernomics which have continued through three decades and appear never-ending.
   • Anne 4.1

     10 October 2014 at 9:12 am

     The example is set at the very top…

     Hagers house raid
     • Tracey 4.1.1

       10 October 2014 at 9:35 am

       good.
   • boldsirbrian 4.2

     10 October 2014 at 9:37 am

     .
     @ Jenny Kirk (4)

     The givealittle page for Nicky, helps to counter the Nasty society you refer to.
     The only way to counter the Nasty Society (and I agree with your sentiment), is to confront it, one person at a time, one day at a time.

     Mr. Botany (B.)
     • Jenny Kirk 4.2.1

       10 October 2014 at 9:43 am

       Yes – it helps, and I feel privileged to be able to donate a little to Nicky’s fund – thanks to Meg. Really good idea, and so easy to do.
     • Lindsey 4.2.2

       10 October 2014 at 12:40 pm

       I read some of the comments on the Hager fund on NBR – that special kind of RWNJ hatred is alive and well there. I went home determined to donate.
       • Tracey 4.2.2.1

         10 October 2014 at 1:21 pm

         how odd given they are the voices of detached reason mixed with compassion
   • wekarawshark 4.3

     10 October 2014 at 10:12 am

     “There’s a lot of hatred around – against Nicky Hager, the left, the greens – its all very sickening. We have become an extremely nasty society. No tolerance at all. A legacy from the days of Rogernomics which have continued through three decades and appear never-ending.”

     I think this is true, but I think we need to be careful to not think there are more people like this than there are. The internet makes the numbers look bigger, as does talkback radio. Within the political sphere, we have a higher number of people that are expected to be hard arses, so there are more nasty people there, plus the Key govt has taken it to a whole new level. Ditto the MSM, but I’m not sure we can say this across the population. There are still many kind, thoughtful and fairminded people out there. We need to find ways to encourage and support those values (and unfortunately I don’t think ts is a place that does that).
     • Tracey 4.3.1

       10 October 2014 at 1:24 pm

       Especialy once you realise how many posters and talkback callers are part of a strategy which includes multiple handles to one person, the numbers are smaller but their sphere of influence in the media makes them seem louder
   • music4menz 4.4

     10 October 2014 at 10:17 am

     Hi Jenny- Don’t you think that your overarching comment that ‘we have become an extremely nasty society’ is just a bit over the top? There may well be people whose behaviour and attitudes we don’t like, but to condemn New Zealand society as a whole in this way really doesn’t add much to intelligent debate. I see and hear about tremendously generous and kind folk all the time who go about making our society a better place. I might not agree with their politics- frequently I know nothing about their politics- but their actions are good and beneficial and show an enormous amount of empathy and concern for their fellow New Zealanders.

     I’m happy to start giving examples, if you’d like, but I think all readers of The Standard could name innumerable examples for themselves that disprove your generalisation.
   • music4menz 4.5

     10 October 2014 at 10:18 am

     Hi Jenny- Don’t you think that your overarching comment that ‘we have become an extremely nasty society’ is just a bit over the top? There may well be people whose behaviour and attitudes we don’t like, but to condemn New Zealand society as a whole in this way seems a bit excessive. I see and hear about tremendously generous and kind folk all the time who go about making our society a better place. I might not agree with their politics- frequently I know nothing about their politics- but their actions are good and beneficial and show an enormous amount of empathy and concern for their fellow New Zealanders.

     I’m happy to start giving examples, if you’d like, but I think all readers of The Standard could name innumerable examples for themselves that disprove your generalisation.
     • greywarshark 4.5.1

       10 October 2014 at 12:05 pm

       music4menz
       I think Jennys comment We have become an extremely nasty society. No tolerance at all. is a very fair one.

       It’s not over the top to say that about a mean, clutching society putting personal comfort and self-satisfaction before all else and finding excuses to abuse and destroy others who are worse-off in the process. This behaviour is so over the top, that the mean society is running out of bounds down the sides of the golden tower and drowning us underneath. And that hyperbole isn’t at all over the top, it is happening, it is observable to those who dare to see the facts.

       I’m not interested or heartened in hearing about being dependent on charity when it is decided that we deserve it. There are some people helping out, good on them. They are little candles in the dark. But we get very strong winds in NZ – candles aren’t enough to stop the dark depression descending.
       • RedLogix 4.5.1.1

         10 October 2014 at 12:09 pm

         Sadly I agree very much with this gw.

         Recall how popular Muldoon was – and that how in the years after almost no bugger could be found who voted for him.
         • greywarshark 4.5.1.1.1

           10 October 2014 at 12:17 pm

           @ Redlogix 12.09pm
           Yes I really disliked Muldoon. Did this phrase make you think of him? ( ‘finding excuses to abuse and destroy others who are worse-off in the process’).
           • Tracey 4.5.1.1.1.1

             10 October 2014 at 1:26 pm

             The strategy of this lot make Muldoon seem like an amateur. He scowl as he rogered the nation, these gutssmile
         • kathy 4.5.1.1.2

           10 October 2014 at 2:15 pm

           You got that one right, Relogix. I did a survey for the NRB, couldn’t believe the poverty stricken people who voted for Muldoon, but they were nowhere to be found after he disappeared.
         • Colonial Rawshark 4.5.1.1.3

           10 October 2014 at 2:54 pm

           The “Rob’s Mob” strain in NZ society is stronger than ever.
           • greywarshark 4.5.1.1.3.1

             10 October 2014 at 3:24 pm

             I think the attraction of Muldoon was to someone with guts and drive. The determination to have his say and get his way would be very attractive to those with spaghetti-spines here in NZ. And many still will jump to it whenever authoritatively spoken to without question. Just thinking about NZ political lif in general.

             So it’s a shoe-in for someone who conveys easy, relaxed authority like yek or Winston, the earnest ones like Cunliffe who think before they speak or Russel and Metiria who have the twin stresses of knowing they are holding NZ on course towards the possible gap in the reef but aren’t allowed near the wheel most of the time, well they don’t exude confidence and happiness do they.

             And that’s what we want in NZ, someone who will offer us these. We have been buying imported stuff, cheaper but of limited usage, for 25 years, ever since NZ companies collapsed. We are used to getting second best, what’s left after the good export stuff has gone, the apples that are bruised after falling off the truck. We get the low wages enabled for NZ, but then are expected to pay the high export prices for our meat and till recently, our milk.

             When you think about it why should people fall over themselves to vote for Labour and Cunliffe. Impressions matter, and we have learned that we can’t rely on Labour. to improve our lot. Even Helen and Cullen couldn’t restore us to the promised shangri-la that Labour’s Roger whatsname offered, Some pain, and then the gain. Hah! So go with the flow, change political parties and it could always get worse. That’s the watchword.
     • Murray Rawshark 4.5.2

       11 October 2014 at 1:02 am

       Jenny is right about society. It has become nasty. Society should act through state and local government institutions to create worthwhile conditions for all its members. This does not happen.

       It is precisely because society has fallen down, with its existence even being denied by the neolibs, that individuals of good heart step in with charitable works.
   • Rob 4.6

     10 October 2014 at 1:47 pm

     Yes probably part of what some refer to as aspiration and others call greed.
     I feel we need a society where there can be opportunity available to all who wish to be part of that society.
     • greywarshark 4.6.1

       10 October 2014 at 2:05 pm

       Rob
       I would like to amend that to all who wish to be part of society can as a basic, and then all should have opportunities to make a successful life working with others co-operatively and legally for their own good and the good of others. There that gives lots of opportunity and people can seek it out and get it and involve and include others too.
       • Tracey 4.6.1.1

         10 October 2014 at 2:08 pm

         and where even the most vulnerable have the means to thrive.

         i have in mind the disabled in particular, most of whom are sentenced to a life of the most basic benefit for having been born unable to work, or become unable to work through genetics, accident or disease.
         • Susan Dax 4.6.1.1.1

           10 October 2014 at 3:07 pm

           I have M.S. I have a husband who supports me, but not everyone is so lucky. I just wanted to say thank you for this comment 🙂
           • Tracey 4.6.1.1.1.1

             10 October 2014 at 4:30 pm

             you are welcome. I wont consider we are a successful nation til things like this change. what good is gdp and growth and surplus if we doom the vulnerable to subsistence.
             • minarch …

               10 October 2014 at 4:41 pm

               you might like this then Tracey

               http://www.grossnationalhappiness.com/

               The Kingdom of Bhutan is all about the GNH not the GDP !
               • Clemgeopin …

                 10 October 2014 at 5:25 pm

                 They have stopped smokers from smoking. I don’t think the smokers are happy. I also doubt if they don’t have poverty and beggars and not sure if they have old age pensions. How do they measure this GNH? No doubt the wealthy, the corporates, their king and those in power are happy as, as usual.
                 May be my doubts are unfounded. I don’t know.
                 • rawshark-yeshe …

                   10 October 2014 at 7:24 pm

                   Corporates have little place in Bhutan, the last untrammelled Buddhist country on earth. GNH is a measure of contentment, not possessions.

                   In the ‘civilised’ west, we have everything, but not a single moment of contentment.

                   Bhutan is likely happy. Not without problems, but most are imported. It has been protected, mainly by charging a high daily tax of US$200 per day to tourists who are limited to a maximum stay of two weeks ( or maybe 10 days).

                   Sigh … contentedly 🙂
                   • Clemgeopin …

                     10 October 2014 at 9:56 pm

                     Not without problems, but most are imported

                     Thanks for your reply.
                     Have you been there? What are the ‘problems’ you refer to? How well does the hereditary king and the wealthy do in comparison to the poor?
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               10 October 2014 at 4:48 pm

               +1
               • greywarshark …

                 10 October 2014 at 10:15 pm

                 @Clemgeopin
                 I think possibly they are happy because they don’t spend all their time envying others. If they have enough and if lucky, a bit extra, they enjoy that. We have got to the stage where only an excess is enough, for now.
                 And people always setting artificial standards looking down on others who aren’t dressed right etc.
                 • Clemgeopin …

                   10 October 2014 at 10:31 pm

                   Have you been there, seen the place, lived there for a while and spoken to locals? If not, your comments are of not of real use.

                   I haven’t been to Bhutan, but I have stayed a while in Darjeeling and met quite a few Nepalies, Sikkimies and Bhutanese…..all very lovely people.

                   Darjeeling has the mountaineering institute, the first stop for Himalayan climbing, the base town that most climbers start from, including Sir Edmund Hillary.

                   I am ignorant of the actual supposed ‘happy’ situation and ‘GNH’ in Bhutan for its ‘ordinary’ humble and loyal people.
                   • greywarshark …

                     10 October 2014 at 10:56 pm

                     @ Clemgeopin
                     I haven’t been there but have read about it. And I am drawing a bit on my own experience and a bit on comments from people who have been to visit different cultures such as Bhutan. And many are very happy compared to us. I don’t say grace before meals any more, but perhaps I will start again. Accentuate the positive.
5. Skinny 5

   10 October 2014 at 9:03 am

   All these complaints do is fuel further donation support for Hagers. Nice work by the rightwing fanatics, your support is much appreciated!
   • Colonial Rawshark 5.1

     10 October 2014 at 3:10 pm

     lol, very true, not unlike the Streisand Phenomenon.
6. greywarshark 6

   10 October 2014 at 9:49 am

   We encourage all interested parties who have reported this page to the Givealittle helpdesk
   I don’t understand. What is ‘this’ page? Is it The Standard post or is it the project page for Nicky on Givealittle itself. If so, was there something in the comments there objected to? Or are the oppressors of our society trying to shut down communal assistance and support to those who want to expose and stop their machinations?
   • wekarawshark 6.1

     10 October 2014 at 12:44 pm

     It’s the fundraiser page at GiveaLittle. Some people complained to the website owners. Nothing to do with ts.
7. framu 7

   10 October 2014 at 9:59 am

   Aint it weird – its nothing more than the free market in action (according to current orthodoxy)

   but as usual – these bold champions of freedom dont like it
   • srylands 7.1

     10 October 2014 at 11:34 am

     Anyone who has objected to the defence fund on Givealittle is, by definition, not a bold champion of freedom. People should be free to donate their money to any lawful purpose.
     • StarSpangledBallet 7.1.1

       10 October 2014 at 11:52 am

       Agreed. People should be entitled to fritter away their money on any lawful purpose.
     • framu 7.1.2

       10 October 2014 at 12:17 pm

       well – for once were in total agreement

       but i bet plenty of those who are out for hagers blood any way they can, like to identify with the libertarian ideology
     • Draco T Bastard 7.1.3

       10 October 2014 at 12:31 pm

       Yes, and chances every single one of them votes National and proclaims the greatness of free-market capitalism.

       Of course, the free-market isn’t about freedom but using the financial power of the few to oppress society in such a way so that they can blame their victims.
       • Tracey 7.1.3.1

         10 October 2014 at 1:29 pm

         Free to make big profit… Very rarely do they measure freedom of the people, or their prosperity or opportunity to thrive…
     • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.4

       10 October 2014 at 12:37 pm

       S Rylands – well said – I have some harsh words for you at times. That said, at least you hold to your faith.
8. Chris 8

   10 October 2014 at 10:08 am

   The way it’s written is quite bizarre. It’s like saying “Political parties on the left have a right to say that we need to eradicate poverty in New Zealand. We live in a democracy. But let’s have a public debate about what we think of the people who support parties on the left.”
9. travellerev 9

   10 October 2014 at 10:12 am

   Bugger it. Just donated for the second time too! 😆
10. ianmac 10

    10 October 2014 at 11:15 am

    I believe the Nicky Fund is over $40,000 now. Good on us.
11. Clemgeopin 11

    10 October 2014 at 11:16 am

    I too have donated an amount of money and may do so again. I have a couple of questions though (1) How do we know who set up the page? (2) How do we know for sure that the money will actually go into the account of Hager? Is this all just based on trust?
    • lprent 11.1

      10 October 2014 at 11:30 am

      Yes. Meg comes from a long line of women activists of the left. While she is off mostly being a mother at present with two kids under 5, she is still around throughout the social media.

      Don’t worry about that. I checked it as soon as I heard about the page. I was very happy that Meg set it up.

      By the usual trusted circuitous routes (no phone and no computers), apparently Nicky is very happy (ecstatic was the word used) for her to have done it as well.
      • Clemgeopin 11.1.1

        10 October 2014 at 11:48 am

        Thanks and glad to hear that. I am now off to add another small donation without any misgivings. Cheers!
        • Colonial Rawshark 11.1.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 3:12 pm

          Yes I think I might put another small donation through as well. Long live investigative journalism in NZ!!!
    • boldsirbrian 11.2

      10 October 2014 at 11:33 am

      .
      @ Clemgeopin (11)

      The answers to your query are on the givealittle pages. The money goes straight into Nicky Hager’s bank account. If you, or anyone has concerns, you could email Nicky. (I do not have his email, however)

      Mr. Botany (B.)
      • Clemgeopin 11.2.1

        10 October 2014 at 11:50 am

        Thanks boldsirbrian. Good to know. Cheers!
      • wekarawshark 11.2.2

        10 October 2014 at 11:50 am

        Plus, GiveaLittle have protocols for checking the validity of fundraisers and the people organising. Have a look around the site, there is a quite a bit there.
        • Clemgeopin 11.2.2.1

          10 October 2014 at 12:25 pm

          Yes, thanks.

          I just made my second donation and made this comment:

          ‘Hats off to REAL public service done by whistle blowers like you that expose the dirt in the higher echelons of power. We owe a gratitude to you and to other courageous modern heroes such as Edward Snowden, Julian Assagne and Glenn Greenwald. Best wishes mate. CGP on 10 Oct 2014 at 12:06’

          Just above that, there is another comment which I liked. Here it is.

          ‘ Nicky Hager, when the New Year Honours are announced, your name should be at the top of the list! It won’t be, of course – for various reasons – but the service you have done this country in your exposé of the rot and sleaze which has been, and is currently, challenging the very fibre of our democracy, is worth more than any of the baubles which Key and his chums on the Honours Committee will hand to their mates! It is a privilege and a pleasure to help in a small way. Take heart in knowing that you do have a lot of support and admiration for the manner in which you stand by your principles. It is heartening for many of us to know that there is at least one commentator who can be relied upon to provide us with the truth. Such a pity that there are not more of you! Guest Giver on 10 Oct 2014 at 12:07’

          So true, isn’t it!
      • Clemgeopin 11.2.3

        10 October 2014 at 12:31 pm

        you could email Nicky

        Not really, because he can’t read them at present…His computer is some where in the back corner of some police station somewhere!
      • Melanie Scott 11.2.4

        10 October 2014 at 12:54 pm

        I may be paranoid but I find that worrying. A lawyer’s trust account would be safer. The Nat govt’s toadies may try to freeze the account or pressure their overseas owned bank glove puppets to make the money ‘disappear’.
        • Colonial Rawshark 11.2.4.1

          10 October 2014 at 3:15 pm

          What they did to people trying to donate to Wikileaks – they pressured payment systems like Visa, Mastercard and Paypal to stop processing donations.

          Worth remembering that the power elite can shut down any parts of the financial and communications infrastructure (that they own), whenever they wish to, for whatever reason they deem appropriate.
        • AsleepWhileWalking 11.2.4.2

          10 October 2014 at 4:37 pm

          Excellent point and something to consider. I was worried about NH being taxed on the donated “income” so thought some kind of trust would be better from this perspective.
          • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.4.2.1

            10 October 2014 at 4:51 pm

            Personal gifts are explicitly exempt from taxation, or indeed, scrutiny, cf: Cabinet Club.
12. Delia 12

    10 October 2014 at 11:55 am

    Bunch of whiners, who never stop.

    [lprent: Yes I agree. Those trying to close down the Hager donation page certainly are whining quite a lot, and they never seem to stop. ]
    • framu 12.1

      10 October 2014 at 12:19 pm

      who you talking to/about there delia?
    • minarch 12.2

      10 October 2014 at 12:43 pm

      ironic you are whining about people whining there Delia

      think it through next time…
    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.3

      10 October 2014 at 12:43 pm

      A bunch of whiners who never stop is trying to shut down Hager’s defence fund. I donate out of my immense respect for Mr. Hager, and my desire to see the rule of law prevail against the National Party and its enablers, and for the schadenfreude of hearing their lamentations.

      How about you?
13. BM 13

    10 October 2014 at 12:49 pm

    Hager has almost made as much out of this as he did out of his book,actually probably more since he won’t have to pay tax on these donations.

    If I was Hager, I’d just go buy another computer and keep the change.

    Thank you Mr Plod.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      10 October 2014 at 12:52 pm

      Citation needed for Hager’s earning from Dirty Politics, or are you asserting opinion as fact?
      • BM 13.1.1

        10 October 2014 at 12:55 pm

        I saw some back of the envelope number crunching on NBR, I’d have to find the link.

        Edit: Here you go

        http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/hager-legal-fund-flyer
        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 1:17 pm

          Thanks. It’s good to see the profits of free enterprise going to such a worthy recipient for once.
        • Tracey 13.1.1.2

          10 October 2014 at 1:37 pm

          If you think 56k would fund a case against the police and pay bills and mortgage or rent, you live on a different planet to the grownups here
          • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.2.1

            10 October 2014 at 1:43 pm

            Hager’s mortgage free. He says it’s one of the things that provides him with the security to do what he does, which in turn suggests to me that what he does isn’t a huge money-spinner.
            • Tracey 13.1.1.2.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 2:09 pm

              thanks OAB.
        • lprent 13.1.1.3

          10 October 2014 at 2:04 pm

          BM From your link…

          Hager’s share will ultimately be around $56,000 (bar a small advance, royalties aren’t usually paid until several months later).

          I highlighted several major points for you to consider. So at best Hager is just starting to receive money from the book. The reality is that most of the time it can take up to 5 or 6 months before royalty money arrives. However he is having to incur court filing charges now.
          • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.3.1

            10 October 2014 at 2:12 pm

            He must have some income from previous work – ICIJ encourages people to donate and so on.

            It’s the principle that matters as far as I’m concerned: I don’t see why he should have to pay a cent of his own money to defend New Zealand against these mongrels.
    • wekarawshark 13.2

      10 October 2014 at 12:59 pm

      “If I was Hager, I’d just go buy another computer and keep the change.”

      Well of course, because you completely fail to appreciate the various issues involved, esp ones based on principles. Or you don’t care. Or both.
      • framu 13.2.1

        10 October 2014 at 1:29 pm

        hes also missed that the biggest loss is the work – not the tool
        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 1:45 pm

          Cloud storage – and in this case I expect his lawyer has copies of everything – or else what does “prepared” mean?
          • framu 13.2.1.1.1

            10 October 2014 at 2:12 pm

            well – i take it to mean prepared in regards to dirty politics and an expectation of the police coming around to look for rawshark

            however – other work, including all the background documents and data could well be a different story.

            I dont know for sure of course – but i could imagine that NH is the kind of person who would have stacks of documents related to all manner of stories – all required to do his work.

            So – if all of those are digital, and if NH doesnt have a mistrust of “the cloud” (i do – its just a computer somewhere after all) then all his work and data may be on the cloud – but i doubt it

            then theres the non-work items that were seized as well
            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.1.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 2:27 pm

              He said “sources” – not just Rawshark.

              I’ve said it before – the most damaging effect the raid will have on Hager’s work is that of intimidation, not hardware loss.

              Rawshark faces two years in prison. What do you suppose the sources for the tax haven book face if National Party thugs discover their identities?
              • framu …

                10 October 2014 at 2:30 pm

                oh – ok missed the plural somewhere

                however – i still think the loss of stacks of documents would impact his abiltiy to do his work.

                not to mention his families possessions

                regardless – either way its still more than “just get a new computer” as BM suggests

                but yes – your right on the unspoken messaging
      • Tracey 13.2.2

        10 October 2014 at 1:34 pm

        And the assumption he can afford oneright now. He may not get royalties for the book and took a lump sum… Which he wantonly used to pay his rent/mortgage and bills.
    • Tracey 13.3

      10 October 2014 at 1:32 pm

      At least assert his lawyers will make money BM, the fund is for hagers lawyers not hager. What is it with lack of reading comprehension on the right.
      • BM 13.3.1

        10 October 2014 at 1:43 pm

        Has Hager hired a lawyer?, I haven’t really been following this very closely.
        • Weepus beard 13.3.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 1:56 pm

          No you haven’t, have you? It’s clearly discussed in the link you posted earlier. You must have skim read it.
        • Tracey 13.3.1.2

          10 October 2014 at 2:04 pm

          thats obvious. its easier to understand when you read factual reports rather than getting your info from the oil slick and kiwibog. steven price is his current lawyer. of course you would know that if you had actually read the link you posted.

          lprent surely at some point abject, recidivist stupidity gets the boot?
          • BM 13.3.1.2.1

            10 October 2014 at 2:09 pm

            This case is of little interest to me, I saw the link on Kiwiblog and skimmed past everything until I got to what I was interested in, which was how much money he made from the book.
            • minarch 13.3.1.2.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 2:10 pm

              ” how much money”

              yes BM this is ALWAYS the most important thing isnt it…
            • Tracey 13.3.1.2.1.2

              10 October 2014 at 2:11 pm

              and yet here you are blathering your lack of ethics and moronic musings… kiwibog called for the cops to raid slater yet, or bemoaned their failure to do so years ago…
            • Weepus beard 13.3.1.2.1.3

              10 October 2014 at 2:13 pm

              So uninterested you can’t leave it alone.
            • Tracey 13.3.1.2.1.4

              10 October 2014 at 2:16 pm

              you understand that isnt actually what he made, dont you? sure nbr wrapped it up as factual but after a close reading you find it is speculation and unless they have hagers contract with the publisher, it is actualy pretty worthless opinion masquerading as fact.
        • Paul 13.3.1.3

          10 October 2014 at 6:08 pm

          Yet you post on this regularly.
    • Tracey 13.4

      10 October 2014 at 1:38 pm

      Yup, you would commit a fraud at worst and behave with zero morals at best. At least you finally declared your base ethics.
      • One Anonymous Bloke 13.4.1

        10 October 2014 at 1:41 pm

        I don’t think so: the Givealittle Q&A says the money will go into a bank account of Hager’s choosing, and makes no mention of oversight into how the funds are dispersed.

        In any case, how is he supposed to stay in contact with his defence team in the absence of a phone etc?

        I think it’d be an ethical (partial) use of the funds. Mind you, Mr. Hager’s ethics are stricter than mine.
        • Tracey 13.4.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 2:12 pm

          well he has ethics, thats a good start.
    • lprent 13.5

      10 October 2014 at 1:58 pm

      Have you any idea what court fees are like? Most filings cost anywhere between $300 and $1500 a shot. Nicky will be do quite a number of them to get his contact details and documents back for everything from high court injunctions to privacy court. Not to mention if he has to pay lawyers.

      Then of course there will be the civil claims against the police for damages.

      It is all up front money. Not like the slow trickle of money coming in from royalties on his book which will come in slowly over the next year.
      • BM 13.5.1

        10 October 2014 at 2:11 pm

        I would expect Hager to have cloud storage backups of all his important data.
        • wekarawshark 13.5.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 2:30 pm

          Really? Why do you expect that?
          • BM 13.5.1.1.1

            10 October 2014 at 2:34 pm

            What if his house burnt down or some one broke in and trashed it.

            These things do happen, which is why it pays to have backups and the backups being somewhere different, such as cloud storage.

            Hager doesn’t really strike me as a stupid man, so I’d expect him to have backups.
            • Tracey 13.5.1.1.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 2:38 pm

              or an external harddrive, which was siezed.for someone who has little interest your suppositions know no bounds.
              • SHG …

                10 October 2014 at 4:13 pm

                If the backup is at the same premises as the original, it’s not a backup.
                • Puddleglum …

                  10 October 2014 at 7:57 pm

                  Of course it is.

                  Different forms of back-up guard against different forms of ‘risk’.

                  If my laptop crashes (the most likely source of lost data) I have a back-up – in my own house.

                  Of course, if my house burns down that back-up won’t help. But neither would a hard drive stored at my neighbours if the entire neighbourhood is destroyed in an earthquake. And neither will cloud storage if some massive solar flare burns the entire internet (I don’t even know if that’s possible – but hopefully you get my drift).

                  The real question is whether Hager had an appropriate form of back-up for the work he does and his dependence upon or valuing of that work and the likely risks to the data supporting that work – ‘appropriateness’ being constrained by his financial resources, of course.
            • wekarawshark 13.5.1.1.1.2

              10 October 2014 at 2:42 pm

              “Hager doesn’t really strike me as a stupid man, so I’d expect him to have backups.”

              Yes of course, but that doesn’t mean it’s all on cloud storage, or that every piece of information the police took is on cloud storage or even duplicated somewhere. Am thinking paper files in particular, but I also hope that certain confidential information isn’t in the cloud. Have you ever run a big project like multiple books and articles and research and scanned in every document and uploaded it?

              This is daft line of argument, OAB’s running it as well. We simply don’t know how well prepared Hager was, or how much this is disrupting his family and his life and work.
              • One Anonymous Bloke …

                10 October 2014 at 3:17 pm

                Yeah, I think we can safely assume that it’s immensely disruptive and intimidating and awful.

                I’m not sure you understand my line of reasoning. Replacing the hardware is the easy part. Repairing the potential damage done to trust and an open society? Not so much.
                • wekarawshark …

                  10 October 2014 at 3:48 pm

                  I understand the line of reasoning. It’s just that unfortunately you presented it as not a work tools/product issue; that Hager would have copies of everything he needs (which you have no way of knowing); and that the principles are far more important than the other effects. That may be true in Hager’s case, but it doesn’t help to minimise the effect of the raid on Hager and his family. It’s not an either or, and arguing that the hardware, papers and interruptions are waaaay less important (which is how you came across) just fucked me off. Leaving the financial issues aside, if I had to replace my phone, computer, ext hdd, paper files, camera etc it would not be ‘easy’. I’m glad that you have the privilege in your life that enables such a thing to be easy but please don’t assume that is true for everyone else.
                  • One Anonymous Bloke …

                    10 October 2014 at 4:06 pm

                    Ah, sorry, that’s my brevity letting me down: it’s the relatively easy part of this task, “this task” being the return journey to being an open, corruption free, democratic society, which Mr. Hager evidently holds very dearly and actively engages in at no little personal cost.
              • Colonial Rawshark …

                10 October 2014 at 3:20 pm

                Cloud storage of personal data – highly problematic at best for someone in Hager’s line of work. Cloud storage like that through Amazon or Google is intrinsically compromised by the security services. Leaving you with something like MEGA which is better but still does not provide complete security (nothing can).

                BTW harks back to the ridiculous outcry over the celebrity nude selfies which were hacked. The point wasn’t the morality of the nude selfies – the point was storing personal info (ANY personal info) on faraway servers over which you have sweet F.A. actual control or oversight.
                • wekarawshark …

                  10 October 2014 at 3:50 pm

                  actually the point was whether people have body autonomy 😉 but anyway, I agree about Cloud storage and have been surprised to see OAB suggesting this is a good place to store information you don’t want the government to see.
                  • One Anonymous Bloke …

                    10 October 2014 at 4:09 pm

                    OAB says: always encrypt before you save to the cloud.
                    • wekarawshark …

                      10 October 2014 at 5:21 pm

                      Did you see the comment the other day about Hager’s relative tech illiteracy?
                    • One Anonymous Bloke …

                      10 October 2014 at 5:29 pm

                      Relative to Conan the Moderator, Steve Jobs is relatively technically illiterate. I hope and trust that Mr. Hager gets good advice in the areas in which his technical skills are lacking.

                      If not then my house is available to any refugee from the right wing pogrom against his sources that will inevitably ensue.
                    • wekarawshark …

                      10 October 2014 at 5:40 pm

                      Yeah, I’m sure he pays someone to do all that stuff, although probably a different person that scans and uploads all his hardcopy information. /sarc.

                      I think the point here is that you have been making many assumptions, when we really have no idea.

                      btw, can you prove that encrypted data on cloud storage can’t been seen by anyone?
                    • One Anonymous Bloke …

                      10 October 2014 at 6:01 pm

                      I’m pretty sure no-one has demonstrated an ability to crack GPG encryption.
                    • One Anonymous Bloke …

                      10 October 2014 at 6:10 pm

                      By the way, there’s no need to get all right wing on my ass, I didn’t say he pays henchmen for security I said he got sound advice.
                    • wekarawshark …

                      10 October 2014 at 7:45 pm

                      “I didn’t say he pays henchmen for security”

                      That’s nice, neither did I.

                      Am pretty sure the NSA won’t be doing a press release on which encryption they crack.
                    • Murray Rawshark …

                      11 October 2014 at 1:36 am

                      This is the last nested comment of this thread that I can reply to. I think OAB is right about nobody being able to crack GPG. I know many of the people working on the advances in quantum computing that would be necessary to do this. Their biggest successes so far are in increasing the hyperbole in their articles and funding applications. I’d say anything useful from them is a long way off, and if something else were available, funding for quantum computing would have dried up.

                      The NSA doesn’t put out press releases about their abilities, but I’d bet my life savings on them not being able to crack GPG. If you’re close to the people that work in this area, you don’t need press releases.
                    • Colonial Rawshark …

                      11 October 2014 at 10:17 am

                      It’s PGP

                      Also the NSA has worked with commercial encryption tool providers, and also at the algorithms level, to systematically weaken encryption strength to far below the theoretical claimed.

                      An open source non commercial PGP product is probably still the safest you can use. BUT remember that things like key loggers and other exploits can still be used to obtain keys, passwords, and capture data straight off your computer before encryption.

                      http://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption
                    • wekarawshark …

                      12 October 2014 at 1:15 am

                      Which is why the Guardian did all their Snowden UK work in a separate room with security, on four computers that weren’t networked, ever.

                      Adama rules 😉

                      Thanks Murray.
                    • One Anonymous Bloke …

                      12 October 2014 at 9:33 am

                      CV: it’s GPG: the Gnu Privacy Guard. PGP is compromised.
                • Murray Rawshark …

                  12 October 2014 at 12:56 am

                  GPG = GNU Privacy Guard
                  PGP = Pretty Good Privacy

                  No need to thank me, CV.
          • Tracey 13.5.1.1.2

            10 October 2014 at 2:36 pm

            for the same reason he thinks hager made 56k from his book… he read it at kiwibog or oil slick, those doyens of the press, with high integrity and a history of honesty.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.5.1.1.2.1

              10 October 2014 at 2:37 pm

              The National Business Review.
              • Tracey …

                10 October 2014 at 2:43 pm

                oh no, he read it at kiwibog, and posted the nbr link here. he didnt actually read the nbr article.
      • Tracey 13.5.2

        10 October 2014 at 2:13 pm

        he is not lucky to have a QC ready to take an injunction at a moments like oil slick…
14. Neil 14

    10 October 2014 at 1:15 pm

    If one was to dig around a bit no doubt you would find these people that are trying to shut down the donations for Nicky Hagar’s legal fight will be linked to Cameron Slater & John Key.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1

      10 October 2014 at 1:42 pm

      They give back double, or so I’m told.
    • Weepus beard 14.2

      10 October 2014 at 1:57 pm

      Almost certainly Slater and more than likely Collins.
15. music4menz 15

    10 October 2014 at 2:27 pm

    I wonder whether some of those who have contacted the Givealittle site aren’t more concerned about what might be viewed as a ‘charity’ donation site being used to raise funds for someone they don’t think of as a ‘charity’. Perhaps they aren’t so much concerned about people wanting to give money of their own free will to whomsoever they want. Some give money to Save the Children, some to Caritas, some to the Salvation Army, some to Nicky Hager.

    Just a thought.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      10 October 2014 at 2:30 pm

      Reads more like a threat to me, maggot.
    • Tracey 15.2

      10 October 2014 at 2:41 pm

      can you post some links to you interesting assertions?
    • wtl 15.3

      10 October 2014 at 2:41 pm

      The Givealittle site explicitly states that:

      “Is fundraising at Givealittle just for charities, schools and formal organisations?

      No, Givealittle is for all Kiwis who need to raise funds – whatever the good cause.
      • Tracey 15.3.1

        10 October 2014 at 2:45 pm

        i think you are confusing music and others with being innocent posters, they are here disseminating the lies and mistruths fromkiwiblog and oil slick.
      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.3.2

        10 October 2014 at 2:46 pm

        …but not for M4M and his sad little bunch of whining wingnuts: they’re doing a consumer boycott protest 😆
    • wekarawshark 15.4

      10 October 2014 at 2:44 pm

      “I wonder whether some of those who have contacted the Givealittle site aren’t more concerned about what might be viewed as a ‘charity’ donation site being used to raise funds for someone they don’t think of as a ‘charity’.”

      So they can manage to make a complaint to an online organisation but they can’t manage to read the online organisation’s own website? Pull the other one.
      • Tracey 15.4.1

        10 October 2014 at 2:46 pm

        see my comment at 15.3.1
      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.4.2

        10 October 2014 at 2:47 pm

        They can’t read, and they know exactly how intimidation works.
    • Weepus beard 15.5

      10 October 2014 at 2:47 pm

      Don’t think so. Even a quick look at the Givealittle site shows it is not solely for charity fundraising. No, this is a concerted effort by the politically active right to silence critics of the government.
    • greywarshark 15.6

      10 October 2014 at 3:01 pm

      Musing 4 menz – more appropriate 15
      Just a thought. How sweet. You thinking about good things. Have a cup of tea to refresh yourself after your hard work. But your work requires more thought. I want a bigger thought not just a little one.

      Spend some more of your time actually doing something helpful for someone instead of just endlessly writing and whingeing about others.

      That goes for BM. He’s as much of a nuisance as a noisy blowfly.
      But you can hit those or shoo it out the window. So I guess he’s worse. Does he aid discussion?? He causes irritation, for sure. And I think that is a high point of his day and life. But is The Standard a charity-sitter for someone in their declining years?
    • AsleepWhileWalking 15.7

      10 October 2014 at 4:48 pm

      One could argue that many of the causes on Givealittle aren’t actual charities. Ironically (with regards to your ill-informed comment) the site exsists mainly to support those causes.
16. wekarawshark 16

    10 October 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Number of donors to the fund about to hit 1,000.
17. Morrissey 17

    10 October 2014 at 3:15 pm

    It’s not a bunch of “wing-nuts” trying to shut down this fund. It’s the National Party.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1

      10 October 2014 at 4:12 pm

      +1

      I’m sure they have plausible deniability.
    • Anne 17.2

      10 October 2014 at 6:31 pm

      Where’s Jason Ede?
      • Clemgeopin 17.2.1

        10 October 2014 at 6:50 pm

        Where’s Jason Ede?

        May be he is Rawshark? Nah, that would be Rawshock!
        • One Anonymous Bloke 17.2.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 7:07 pm

          He can be found at nolongeruseful.org
18. NZ Sage 18

    10 October 2014 at 4:03 pm

    I’m always intrigued by the biased semantics of MSM.

    During the election campaign John Key “clarified” while David Cunliffe was “forced to explain”.

    Now we see that ALL donators to the Hager fund are “Hager supporters” not “concerned citizens”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nicky-hager-s-supporters-raise-thousands-legal-fight-6101255

    When will the average Kiwi see through this media BS.
    • Paul 18.1

      10 October 2014 at 6:04 pm

      TVNZ does not act as a public broadcaster but as a tool of the elite.
19. Roger fowler 19

    10 October 2014 at 4:45 pm

    This report has motivated me to make another donation for Nicky’s legal defence. Thank you.
20. Ffloyd 20

    10 October 2014 at 5:33 pm

    I was wondering if N Hager has had interviews with the Police before the raid? Or did they just go in gangbusters? The more I read about the raid the angrier I get. Why would the police want to take a camera? Why did they do it while he was away? Was his family there? It seems they also took some of his work in progress on other things, therefore impeding his future livelihood. ,And the time they took does smack of intimidation. Pure and simple. Am off to make another donation.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1

      10 October 2014 at 6:18 pm

      You’re reading too much into it. They’d take a camera because it has memory and memory can be used for more than photos, not to mention that Hager and Rawshark may have taken selfies for posterity (just trying to thing like a cop); it’s all just procedure.

      Hager said the officers involved were apologetic: perhaps they don’t sympathise with their superior officers enough. Perhaps they have Rawshark sympathies.

      What if Rawshark were a cop!!!!

      Now that’s wild speculation: the notion that Hager might not be wrong when he says his sources are safe: not so much.
      • Ffloyd 20.1.1

        10 October 2014 at 6:54 pm

        Duh??
      • Ffloyd 20.1.2

        10 October 2014 at 6:58 pm

        Duh?? Selfies??
        • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1.2.1

          10 October 2014 at 7:05 pm

          A feeble attempt at humour, poorly aimed.
          • Ffloyd 20.1.2.1.1

            10 October 2014 at 7:17 pm

            Sorry, I’m sure! But in fact the questions I asked were genuine. I do not remember ever reading that Hager had been formally interviewed before the raid.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1.2.1.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 7:25 pm

              Andrew Geddis made the same observation. He also suggested various reasons for the police action that have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with policing.

              The RNZ interview with Kathryn Ryan on Wednesday is worth a listen.
21. Dont worry. Be happy 21

    10 October 2014 at 6:51 pm

    Is there a bank number to donate directly to Nick Hagers defence fund rather than through the web site. Dont do internet banking.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1

      10 October 2014 at 7:04 pm

      Why not email him as the Givealittle Q&A suggests?
    • Anne 21.2

      10 October 2014 at 7:49 pm

      Same here. They won’t give you a bank number ( I think the money is going directly to Hager’s bank account.) Send a cheque to:

      Givealittle
      PO Box 78223
      Grey Lynn
      Auckland 1245.

      Write on back of cheque:

      For Hager Defence Fund
      Also your name and email address. (This is so they can confirm receipt)
    • AsleepWhileWalking 21.3

      11 October 2014 at 6:29 am

      They take credit/debit cards. I think of internet banking as logging into my bank and making a direct payment to a bank account.

      Don’t think it is a great idea for Hager to give out bank account details.
22. ed forty 22

    11 October 2014 at 1:26 am

    I will switch to Vodafone or 2DEGREES if they stop the fund.

Links to post

1. Latest news: Friday, 10 October | Dirty Politics: posted on 10 October 2014 at 11:34 am
2. Donations still rolling in for Hager « The Standard The Standard: posted on 11 October 2014 at 9:44 am

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