Why New Zealand should support the Tongan League team and forget about the Americas Cup

Written By: - Date published: 7:49 am, November 28th, 2017 - 101 comments
Categories: class war, International, rugby league, sport, the praiseworthy and the pitiful - Tags:

If you wanted to see a clear example of sport and class then the last weekend provided the perfect example.

On one side was the Tongan Rugby League team whose ranks included talented professionals who chose to give up well paid gigs and potential big pay outs in the top two International teams so they could play for their home country, a beautiful Pacific paradise of not very many people who at the beginning of the competition had no chance of advancing.

Then they beat New Zealand. And they came so, so close to beating England, a professional league superpower with 570 times as many people as Tonga.

And you have to question the refereeing. That final play looked like it could have been a one on one strip and the consequence would have been a Tongan win and a place in the final.  It should at least have gone to the third ref for review.

And as I said before it is great to see the formerly termed minnows playing so well. It is also great seeing professional players turning their backs on huge game payments so they can represent the country of their birth or ethnic origin. Andrew Fifita for instance who was selected for Australia and could have earned $20,000 per test match and a winning bonus of $50,000 opted instead to play for Tonga and earn $500 per match.  Onya Andrew.

On the other side is the America’s Cup.  High tech boats with lots of sponsors’ logos.  Huge TV contracts to sign.

Over the past couple of weeks we have had a crisis develop in Auckland about the size of the public spend.  It feels really similar to what happened in Wellington with the Hobbit.  A large multinational corporation has local public organisations on to see how much it can squeeze out of them.

First it was the size and cost of the headquarters.  $190 million and significant encroachment on the Waitemata Harbour was proposed.  Thankfully Auckland Council pushed back.  But it will cost $140 million.

But now there is a further claim for $80 million.

From the Herald:

Team New Zealand’s demand for a ‘hosting fee’ has the potential to take the America’s Cup away from Auckland in 2021.

Government minister David Parker told Newstalk ZB’s Tony Veitch that Team NZ were asking for a ‘significant’ hosting fee as Cup defenders, on top of their infastructure expenses.

Asked about the negotiation process Parker said: “I think we’ve been making significant progress in the last couple of weeks. If any one of the parties become unreasonable then we could lose it.”

On one side we have a talented league team willing to play for peanuts and which has invigorated the city in a way that I have not seen. I toot at every vehicle I see with Tongan flags and I toot all the time. I have not seen the city so proud.

And on the other side we have a bunch of rich sailors who are completely mercenary and will represent anyone as long as they pay enough. They ambush the city and the Government and demand that much money the city could do a great deal with addressing the scourge of Kauri Dieback for instance. And then after the decision is made they demand more money. And the justification is that somehow there will be huge wealth generated from visiting members of the 1%.

If there is huge wealth to be generated then I think the recipients of this wealth should pay the hosting fee. I am sure there will be a solid business case somewhere presuming the predictions are accurate.

I would prefer that we sponsor the Tongan National League team and tell Team New Zealand they can no longer use the name if they go overseas.  Passion and dedication and not money should be the primary driver of international sport.

101 comments on “Why New Zealand should support the Tongan League team and forget about the Americas Cup”

  1. Zorb6 1

    You could probably run a F1 Grand Prix in NZ for 80mil.America’s Cup is hardly value for money.Look at the Melbourne Cup.It would create much more revenue as an event at a fraction of that cost.

    • James 1.1

      I assume you have seen the figures that the America’s Cup is not value for money?

      I would be disappointed if we didn’t host the cup here – but the government does this at their peril- Kiwis love this event and if we lose it – you can be sure they will be painted as the reason for it.

      And – I’m pretty sure the government can’t tell them not to use the name Team New Zealand – but again I would love to see them try.

      It’s like you want them to be a one trek government.

      • Kiwis love this event and if we lose it

        [citation needed]

        • Enough is Enough 1.1.1.1

          Draco, we know that you despise most things about modern New Zealand society but do you really need a citation.

          Just google America’s Cup parades.

          Up and down the country New Zealanders came out onto the streets (like they have for no other recent protest or celebration), to welcome their hero’s home.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1

            But the majority of people stayed home right?

            That would indicate that a few people do, as a matter of fact, like the America’s Cup but not the majority which tends to indicate that Kiwis don’t like this event.

            • JohnSelway 1.1.1.1.1.1

              So by your logic because the majority of NZer’s don’t attend specific things then they don’t like or support them?

              The majority of NZer’s don’t attend the Gay Pride parades so does that mean the majority of NZer’s do not support homosexual law reforms?

              The majority of NZer’s didn’t attend, well, any protest against anything National proposed so I guess that means the majority are fine with it.

              Your reasoning is specious, Draco. You are saying unless a particular parade, protest or cause attracts over 50% of the population then we can safely assume the majority of NZer’s are against said cause, protest or event.

              • So by your logic because the majority of NZer’s don’t attend specific things then they don’t like or support them?

                It’s not my logic – it’s that of Enough is Enough.

                My logic requires actual research rather than supposition.

                Which was the point of my comment. Though that was fairly obvious when it followed Enough is Enough’s failed logic.

                • JohnSelway

                  No you implied that because most people didn’t attend the parades then that indicates most NZers don’t like the Americas Cup. So using that same logic I could say the same about the Wellington Xmas parade I went to with my daughter on Saturday.

                  • /facepalm

                    Enough is Enough implied that because people actually went to the parades then all kiwis like the America’s Cup.

                    I followed that same logic by pointing out that the majority didn’t go to those parades and so, according to his logic, Kiwis didn’t like it.

                    It’s not my fucken logic you fucken moron. My logic requires actual study and research.

                    BTW – speaking of “actual research” Reuters tells us of the 2013 Americas Cup:

                    Nearly one-quarter of the residents of the sailing-crazed island nation of New Zealand were glued to their screens for Sunday’s razor-tight races, according to the New Zealand Herald newspaper. It said 927,000 of 4.4 million Kiwis watched live broadcasts of the matches.

                    And it’s still only a minority no matter how you spin it.

                    And please learn to use proper formatting. It’s not hard but it does make reading your comments so much easier.

                    • JohnSelway

                      No need for your fuck this and fuck that. I take your point re: logic however in saying that a nearly 1/4 viewership may be a minority but it is also a massive viewing margin by any stretch so yes, it would seem Kiwi’s do love it and by pointing out “but but it is a minority” applies to, well, anything really that doesn’t have over 50% support.

                      You are splitting hairs. Just admit it – you are wrong and NZer’s truly do seem to enjoy watching an being part if the Cup. Just because a mere 1/4 watch it on the TV doesn’t indicate that it is somehow it is a small minority (which you stated below). It is OK to be wrong, just like I was wrong about the point you were making with Enough is Enough.

                      Everything will be OK.

                    • Enough is Enough

                      No – How did I imply that all Kiwis support the Americas Cup.

                      If 10 Kiwis supported the Americas Cup then as a matter of fact Kiwis support the Americas Cup. Not all Kiwis, no one is suggesting that, but 10 Kiwis, Yes.

                      As it happens Thousands of Kiwis turned out in the rain on a work day. Again no one is implying that all, or even a majority of Kiwis support it. But evidently Kiwis love this event.

                      The point of my post was more a dig at your continuous negativity about anything that you don’t like. Just ignore it if you don’t like it. Kiwis (not all – just to be crystal clear) like rugby, sailing, cricket, concerts, surfing, generally having fun with their mates. A lot of us Kiwis like doing things, or even watching sport, as opposed to sitting on our computers today being continuously negative about anything and everything.

                • JohnSelway

                  BTW – speaking of “actual research” Reuters tells us of the 2013 Americas Cup:

                  Nearly one-quarter of the residents of the sailing-crazed island nation of New Zealand were glued to their screens for Sunday’s razor-tight races, according to the New Zealand Herald newspaper. It said 927,000 of 4.4 million Kiwis watched live broadcasts of the matches.

                  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sailing-americascup-viewers/tv-viewers-tune-in-to-americas-cup-but-jury-out-on-finances-idUSBRE98H1C820130918

                  So not the tiny minority you claimed. If and when I find 2017 figures I’ll post those too

                  • mickysavage

                    Most of Auckland was fascinated by the Tonga England game on Saturday. And it cost a fraction of what the Americas Cup will cost.

                    We are talking about $220 million. I personally can think of many many better things the money could be spent on.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.2

            No – How did I imply that all Kiwis support the Americas Cup.

            By saying:

            Up and down the country New Zealanders came out onto the streets (like they have for no other recent protest or celebration), to welcome their hero’s home.

            Clear implication.

            • Enough is Enough 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Haha Brilliant – I think you are clutching at straws there Draco.

              Anyway, I suggest the best thing is for you to just climb back into your dark cave, and jump on your keyboard the next time we as a community come out on the streets to celebrate something which bring a smile to many kiwis faces.

              • I think you are clutching at straws there Draco.

                No, I’m not. Within context, ‘kiwis’ obviously referred to everyone.

                I suggest the best thing is for you to just climb back into your dark cave

                Why the denigration?

                Can’t support your own arguments perhaps?

                And I’d still like to know why the majority are having to pay for the desires of the minority?

                • JohnSelway

                  “And I’d still like to know why the majority are having to pay for the desires of the minority?”

                  Like everything? Why are the majority paying for cricket, rugby, football, polo, water polo, the Olympic team, the commonwealth team, rowers, shot-putters, ad infintum because they are all only of interest to a minority.

                  Your argument is specious Draco. We get it – you don’t like the Americas Cup for…reasons. But over 900,000 NZer’s disagree with you. And they merely were the ones who tuned in.

                  “Can’t support your own arguments perhaps?”

                  At first your argument centered around there being a tiny minority who actually cared about the AC. When it was shown that this minority actually consisted of a 1/4 of the population you moved the goal-posts to “Well, it’s still a minority”. But we support loads of minority interests and you seem to be suggesting that unless something attracts an over 50% buy in from the public then we shouldn’t be supporting it. Which is stupid.

                • Enough is Enough

                  When I clarified the context, you still continued your hair brained argument,

                  What a sad society we would live in whereby the desires of minority groups could not be funded appropriately with public money. Say good bye to culture, music, sport, and recreation.

                  Ironically the only thing to survive would probably be rugby.

                  It would be a very sad and dark place, hence the reference to a cave.

      • Molly 1.1.2

        So, because I don’t love it – I’m not a Kiwi.

        If our new government supports this, I’m going to be critical of their priorities. Just as I would regardless of who makes this decision.

        “It’s like you want them to be a one trek government.”
        I don’t want them to be a one trick government – pretending to care but really not – and hey look! a royal visit, a rugby world cup, an america’s cup….
        We’ve had enough of that kind of governance, and too many are suffering because of it.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2

      probably

      Only one whole order of magnitude out. Better luck next time.

      • Zorb6 1.2.1

        Interesting link-‘Street races are cheaper to get off the ground than those on purpose-built tracks since they don’t require construction of a new venue’.The AC hosting fee is separate to the cost of infrastructure .It was just a guess ,but the author of your article is guessing too.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.3

      The Economic Impact of the 2003 America’s Cup Defence – Full Report (pdf).

      tl;dr:

      $523m of net additional spending in the New Zealand economy generated by the event over the 2000-03 period, which would not have occurred otherwise.

      • Zorb6 1.3.1

        ‘The main sectors to benefit from the additional demand were:
        Marine sector ($143m)
        Accommodation and hospitality ($92m)
        Retail and entertainment ($132m)
        Business and household services ($48m).
        Transport ($48m)’
        Still hard to justify taxpayers funding it to the degree they want imo.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.3.1.1

          The GST alone on those figures amounts to ~$70M. And those figures are from 2003.

          • Zorb6 1.3.1.1.1

            I get that you are in favour of taxpayers funding the event.It does surprise me,mind you, you are entitled to choose your own cause celebres.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.3.1.1.1.1

              It’s hardly a cause célèbre. Generally speaking, I think we should support one another in our endeavours.

              Where there’s large investment involved it makes sense to look at the cost/benefit ratio. If the figures add up they add up.

              In this case we have previous experience to draw on, and it tends to debunk “it will cost too much” type arguments.

        • mickysavage 1.3.1.2

          Do the same analysis with a series of other events. For instance Pacifica which costs peanuts but generates huge activity. Then let us know which is the best spend.

    • mauī 1.4

      I agree with the comparison with Formula 1. It’s more and more about the money now and not really about country v country like it used to be. The greatest benefactors are most likely the sponsors and with Team New Zealand winning we have won the hosting rights and Oracle, Emirates, and billionaires etc should be paying to put on the event.

      • JohnSelway 1.4.1

        As NZ gets to decide the rules and have decided that at least 20% of the sailing team must represent the country they sail for which is a step in the right direction.

        (I agree about F1 though – I used to really like it but it has just become all about sponsorship)

      • Phil 1.4.2

        I agree with the comparison with Formula 1. It’s more and more about the money now and not really about country v country like it used to be.

        Formula1 hasn’t been about ‘country vs country’ since roughly 1960 and the racing spectacle (visual access, closeness of lap times, number of competitive teams etc.) in recent years is pretty much the same or better than at any time since the sport as we know it began post-ww2. I absolutely adore the old F1 cars. The Lotus 49 and 77, in particular, are borderline pornographic as moving objects. But, watching old footage, makes me realise those races were boring as fuck.

        In terms of cost, a huge driver of the overall increase is safety – both track and car. Again, look back at old races and you see people standing on the outside edge of the track, separated from a +200kph metal object with nothing more than a haybale or single rope fence. All the investment in (and ongoing maintenance of) crash barriers, runoff areas, vehicle impact strenghtening and so on costs a ton of money in addition to what teams are already spending on improvements to squeeze an extra 10th of a second of performance.

  2. garibaldi 2

    I think these new boats are going to make it the most exciting Americas Cup ever and we would be absolute fools not to put it on. Our world wide excellent reputation in yachting/boatbuilding would be enhanced and I can’t help but thinking the naysayers out there are being a tad precious. Besides, it will be more exciting than rucking fugby.

    • lprent 2.1

      I agree – the boat builders and hoteliers should pay for it. While they are at it, they should pay me for my patience in having to put up with this bloody nonsense in my local community.

    • I think these new boats are going to make it the most exciting Americas Cup for that small minority that actually watch it.

      FTFY

      Besides, it will be more exciting than rucking fugby.

      Watching paint dry is more exciting that watching rugby.

      Our world wide excellent reputation in yachting/boatbuilding would be enhanced and I can’t help but thinking the naysayers out there are being a tad precious.

      That’s a possibility but only a possibility. That’s the thing about these sporting events. They usually produce far less income than promised.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1

        See comment 1.3. Actual analysis to argue with.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1

          And what was the downsides?

          How much extra CO2 and other GHG emissions?
          How much damage to the environment?
          How much extra damage to the infrastructure?

          Is extra spending really a viable measure?

          Personally, I’ve always thought GDP was a completely shoddy way of measuring economic performance. This is backed up by certain “financial” opinions though, like so, even recently, from Bloomberg for example:

          “…because GDP measures average income, it can obscure important discrepancies at the household level. When incomes rise disproportionately for the well-to-do, for instance, mean income can increase even though many regular workers see their paychecks cut.”

          In other words, it is a truism that sitting in your car burning fuel that depletes us of resources. But it’s hardly a positive and beneficial spend is it? However, this makes GDP rise.

          Dumping effluent into rivers, and spending a couple of million to clean up that which shouldn’t have been there in the first place also makes GDP rise.
          Hardly good for us, but – it’s certainly good for the GDP stats.

      • JohnSelway 2.2.2

        And again – as linked above:

        ” for that small minority that actually watch it.”

        Close to 1 million. Not a “small minority” by any means.

        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sailing-americascup-viewers/tv-viewers-tune-in-to-americas-cup-but-jury-out-on-finances-idUSBRE98H1C820130918

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2.1

          But still a minority.

          • JohnSelway 2.2.2.1.1

            But a small minority? No.

            So because over 50% of the population didn’t tune in it means…what?
            An even smaller minority watched the Tonga League game. Guess that means people don’t support it.

            Only 45% of regsitered voters voted in the 2013 Asset Sales Referendum. A minority. I guess NZer’s didn’t care about that either

            • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2.1.1.1

              So because over 50% of the population didn’t tune in it means…what?

              An even smaller minority watched the Tonga League game. Guess that means people don’t support it.

              Don’t know. That’s why we have research.

              Only 45% of regsitered voters voted in the 2013 Asset Sales Referendum. A minority. I guess NZer’s didn’t care about that either

              That seems to be more a problem with postal voting and citizens initiated referenda that the government says that they’re going to ignore no matter what.

              • JohnSelway

                And the research shows us that a significant portion of NZ tuned in to watch the America’s cup. Nearly a full 1/4 (which becomes even greater once you trim out everyone under, say 13, who don’t have their own household or TV). This is a greater proportion of people who watch many other events, attend parades, and is in fact an number far greater than those who vote Labour in 2013 (the year the Cup viewer stats are sourced).

                It is quite obvious, from the research available that yes, the Americas Cup is hugely popular in NZ – far more so than many other sports, events or causes. Whether that is a good thing or not, or whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

                It is OK to be wrong Draco. You will be OK.

  3. Ad 3

    I drove through Onehunga and Otahuhu on Saturday morning and it was seriously insane with white and red painted fences, huge lines of red and white balloons, tall trees with road cones on the top with Tongan flags perched on the very tip, and of course hundreds of people-mover vans festooned in colour beeping at each other on the motorway, on Great South Road, and on Mt Smart Road.

    At our early Christmas function at work we gave away 20 double passes to that Semifinal as prizes and awards, and the joint was buzzing on the Monday with what coulda-shoulda beeen.

    Also on that day were the suburban Santa Parades, the many regional markets and German markets and Christmas markets, and the really big downtown Santa Parade on Sunday morning.

    It felt like Auckland was in full celebratory mode everywhere you looked.

    My thought was roughly the same as yours Mickey:
    The Labour Party should represent working class sport, and League is by definition the premier working class sport.

    I’m still waiting for the massive mea culpa from NZLeague for the pathetic proposition of essentially putting up the Warriors as a national team. But at least they’re not requiring $150m in infrastructure before a game is played.

    • James 3.1

      “It felt like Auckland was in full celebratory mode everywhere you looked.“

      I light point out that the areas you were is not “all Auckland “. The majority of the super city has nothing at all.

      And to be honest I would assume that a lot didn’t even know or care that the league World Cup was even coming to Auckland.

      It’s been fantastic watching Tonga – but let’s not get carried away – this is a small event in the scheme of things.

      • Ad 3.1.1

        “…it felt like” is not claiming a statement of fact. After all, I didn’t get to Dannemora or indeed to the North Shore.

        The only reason the people of Auckland knew there was a League World Cup on is because of the Tongan community.

        No need to get carried away. Only a need to re-look at sport funding allocation mechanisms and really ask: how much capital needs to be spent on which discipline to get kids hooked on physical activity for the rest of their lives?

        • solkta 3.1.1.1

          “how much capital needs to be spent on which discipline to get kids hooked on physical activity for the rest of their lives?”

          The evidence would seem to suggest that this level of sport creates more who are hooked on observing sport rather than participating in it. The professionalization of disport into highly competitive sport just sends the message to the majority that they are not worthy and should not try (not that many people enjoy being jumped on anyway).

      • lprent 3.1.2

        Mickey is out west. I’m in Newton just off K Rd. The Tongan community has been pretty active here for a few weeks now and they were quite voluminous last night.

        Where do you live? A cultural desert?

        I’ve lived through several America’s cup around central Auckland over many decades. I’m well and truly over it.

        They are a dreary burden on those of us who live around town. They clog traffic and make running a productive business (I couldn’t give a pigs arse about retailers) anywhere near the city. They make the whole of the bottom end of town even more of a no-go dead area to be avoided than it already is. And on top of that to add injury to offense, I pay for this idiotic frippery through increased bills in rates and taxes.

        Can I suggest that if anyone else likes it that they take it and pay for it themselves.

    • James 3.2

      “The Labour Party should represent working class sport, and League is by definition the premier working class sport.”

      By definition of the working class sport do you mean players on huge salaries playing for multi millionaire owners who don’t even live in the country and run the club as a business ?

    • Morrissey 3.3

      More working people support rugby union than rugby league.

      • Ad 3.3.1

        Union is subsidised up the gills with stadia.
        Well overdue that league got a better share of the states’ attention.

      • lprent 3.3.2

        Not in Auckland.

        • Morrissey 3.3.2.1

          I was referring to Auckland. Contrary to what some RL diehards like to imagine in their pipedreams, rugby union is far more popular everywhere in the city and suburbs.

          But at least Rugby League does have a presence in Auckland. In the rest of the country, it barely registers.

  4. The decrypter 4

    The team playing strip should have been blue……..They lost- just like the natz!!– Reds a winning colour.

  5. One Anonymous Bloke 5

    Looks like a false dichotomy. Why not support both?

    If the only argument against the Americas Cup is that the benefits only accrue to the 1%, the problem is tax law, not yachties.

  6. Antoine 6

    If only you had some connection with the NZ Labour party and could persuade them not to pay the $150M odd for the Americas Cup

    A.

  7. Adrian 7

    Why not support both, and remember where the crews both on and off water come from.
    It is completely dishonest to thrash the old ” millionaires ” line.
    Picton is one place where some key personnel have come from and they were
    “working class ” kids like the majority of their TNZ members.
    I was in Picton when the actual America’s Cup was paraded through the town and the local kids even got to touch it.
    Here was the world’s oldest sporting trophy and one of the most prestigious
    awards in one of the smallest towns in NZ there to honour the local involvement.
    Now that is egalitarianism.
    Good on Tonga, I was hugely disappointed a how close they came but remember those great players only got that way because they were able to develop at the expense of ” millionaire” owners.

    • I was in Picton when the actual America’s Cup was paraded through the town and the local kids even got to touch it.
      Here was the world’s oldest sporting trophy and one of the most prestigious
      awards in one of the smallest towns in NZ there to honour the local involvement.
      Now that is egalitarianism.?

      No, that is a few people exclaiming to the world how special they are.

      Good on Tonga, I was hugely disappointed a how close they came but remember those great players only got that way because they were able to develop at the expense of ” millionaire” owners.

      Millionaires don’t pay for anything, ever. And they probably don’t pay taxes either.

      That’s how they became millionaires.

      • Adrian 7.1.1

        Draco, your arrogance knows no bounds, if people don’t adhere to your own view of an ashes and sackcloth utopia you are as derogatory of them as any born to rule Nat is of one of their dissenters.

        • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1

          What a load of bollocks.

          I just want the actual source of the countries wealth to be accepted and rewarded for their efforts.

          Here’s the thing, it’s not the rich.

      • Payslotsoftax 7.1.2

        What are you on ?

  8. ThatcherForEver 8

    Why should we sponsor Tongan Leage when players like Taumalolo earn over $10 million?

    Don’t kid yourself about professional players turning out for their home countries for minimal match fees, they are more than well compensated

    https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/cowboys/ben-ikin-says-jason-taumalolo-cost-himself-5-million-by-signing-10year-deal-with-cowboys/news-story/0e28c8a47006afb5caae5e513cfe158e

    As for the America’s Cup?, couldn’t care less; big boys playing with boats in the bathtub

    • mickysavage 8.1

      They gave up the chance of earning big money so they could play for Tonga. This is something I applaud.

  9. Do I hear “Neither”?

    Cos that option sounds great.

  10. Adrian 10

    And don’t forget that one of the only two paid designers of these fantastic revolutionary new boats is a 22 year old Elise Beavis, a Computational Fluid Dynamist. She is a great example of the knowledge economy that people on this site are often touting as the way for us to go.
    Remember also that most of the world’s great technological advances and art was underwritten by the so called ” elites”.
    In N Z that is generally 1000s of ordinary Kiwis donating and sponsoring a few dollars to get stuff like this done, wether it be the local league club or helping get a young dinghy sailor or rower or whatever to the next level or even buying a pair of red socks.

    • Remember also that most of the world’s great technological advances and art was underwritten by the so called ” elites”.

      No it wasn’t.

      It was all paid for by the poor workers. They’re the ones that created the wealth that allowed the ‘elites’ and the artists to live at all.

      • Mickomarvel 10.1.1

        Sure, everything, everywhere, at all times comes from the effort of the poor (and not so poor) workers. I wouldn’t be on the left of the political divide if I didn’t implicitly understand that. But it is also always the case that investment decisions are made by members of an elite whether this be a capitalist, socialist or communist elite.
        So I think your comment does nothing to negate Adrian’s point. Our boating industry is second to none, in innovation, both on and off the water and is leading the world in this small but lucrative niche within the ‘knowledge economy’.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1

          But it is also always the case that investment decisions are made by members of an elite whether this be a capitalist, socialist or communist elite.

          Why is that and can we get rid of it?

          Can we, as a matter of fact, get dispersed decision making going and get rid of that ‘elite’?

          Previously there may have been a reason for a well educated clique making the administration decisions but that time is now long past. Everyone is well educated now and communication technologies capable of supporting true democracy.

          Our boating industry is second to none, in innovation, both on and off the water and is leading the world in this small but lucrative niche within the ‘knowledge economy’.

          I suspect that, like so many niche markets, it won’t be quite so niche and quite so lucrative for very long.

          • Mickomarvel 10.1.1.1.1

            Why is that and can we get rid of it?

            Neither question is pertinent to the subject under discussion.

            I suspect that, like so many niche markets, it won’t be quite so niche and quite so lucrative for very long.

            Suspect away to your hearts content. Some suspect the moon is made of green cheese.

            • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.1.1

              Neither question is pertinent to the subject under discussion.

              Actually, it’s very pertinent to the discussion considering that we’re talking about how the workers pay for everything. Shouldn’t they have a say in what they support?

              Suspect away to your hearts content.

              Every body keeps telling us that catering to niches is what’s going to make NZ rich. The problem with that is that everyone else can also cater to those niches.

              As I say, if every country developed it’s economy properly there’d be no trade between them. No need for it when the local economy can produce it just as well and there’s no transportation costs involved making it cheaper.

              • Mickomarvel

                I thought we were discussing the practical issue of whether this government should pay towards a regatta, not some wider issue of worker control.
                I’m not claiming that catering to niches will make us rich, but you’ve already admitted that there are research and development potentialities in the AC.

    • Ad 10.2

      Boston, Manchester, most of Caribbean, Antwerp, Augusta, Washington, bunches of African cities:

      successful, thriving, dependent on slave labour just 200 years ago.

      Careful how well subsidised a tiny few elite jobs are.

  11. David Mac 11

    Yes, lets double the revenue generating capacity and spectacle of the America’s Cup event and divert some of our Team NZ funding towards Team Tonga and build them a boat. Team NZ can drag the spinning quick-fire raffle board out from under that little stage at the RNZYS and BBQ sausages for the Herne Bay silver foxes.

  12. But now there is a further claim for $80 million.

    Isn’t supposed to be user pays?

    They’re using our infrastructure and our waters so they’re the ones that should be paying.

    • David Mac 12.1

      Tend to agree with you, I guess the counter to the argument is if this type of event is deemed by a majority to add vibrancy, quality of life and commercial revenue to Auck/NZ the users are everyone.

      • Well, if it’s everyone then we need to get the sponsors names off of the boats.

        And, to be honest, I would be happier about it if the NZ government fully funded Team NZ but pulled all the results of the R&D back in to NZ government ownership.

        EDIT: As far as R&D goes sponsoring the America’s Cup is a far better option than sponsoring rugby of any stripe.

        • David Mac 12.1.1.1

          Ha! Yep, I like it when I agree with the thrust of your thoughts.

          I guess the counter then becomes:

          ‘Good ratepayers of Auckland. We’re doing the Cup, we can clip your pocket $100 or stick the name of an airline on the sail and sting you $50. What suits you?’

          • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.1.1

            Good ratepayers of Auckland. We’re doing the Cup, we can clip your pocket $100 or stick the name of an airline on the sail and sting you $50 and your airfares will go up 30%. What suits you?

            FTFY

            • David Mac 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Airfares are one of the very few items that haven’t been subjected to the ravages of inflation. A flight to Sydney in the late 70’s costs about the same as it does today. If geared to the price of milk or hot chips, a return flight would be $7000? Their modern marketing programs like sponsorships are partly responsible for that.

              • True.

                IIRC, advertising is about 30% of the fare. That was awhile ago though. IIRC, it’s about normal for business across the spectrum.

                Then there’s the question of if they’re actually paying enough to cover all costs. Climate would suggest otherwise. If the airlines did start charging enough I suspect that people would start claiming poverty because the OE is no longer on the cards and nor is their yearly trip offshore.

          • Mickomarvel 12.1.1.1.2

            They’ve already got the name of the airline on the sail.
            If the rates need to go up then it should be business rates only, as the economic benefits will accrue to businesses not residents. In fact residents may suffer from the extra congestion, strain on resources and price gouging occasioned by the event.

  13. Obtrectator 13

    2001 is over three years away, and already I’m sick to death of hearing about the “Shutduffer Cup”.

    It’s a real dilemma, though, in the strictly accurate sense of being a choice between two equally unpalatable courses of action.

    Option 1 (hosting the thing, spending the dough) alienates the part of the electorate that resents money – “theirs” especially – spent on facilitating rich men’s hobbies, also the ones in the City of Sails who’ll have to put up with all the carry-on involved in preparing for it. But it gratifies the considerable number who troop dutifully in the wake of the drum-bangers rooting for good ol’ li’l NZ sticking it to the world*.

    * while secretly preparing to line their pockets, of course

    Option 2 (don’t refuse to host it, but refuse to cough up) saves the expense, pleases a lot of tax- and rate-payers, and – if the event goes elsewhere – saves a lot of disruption and inconvenience in Auckland, but irks the ones who wanna see the big game, Daddy, and would throw a tanty at anyone who said “no”.
    (The user-pays crowd ought to welcome this option, but quite possibly won’t – they can be surprisingly lenient about what certain users ought to be obliged to pay for.)

    Seems to me it’s all about the numbers, and estimating them accurately. Do that before making a decision. Then go with whatever option would appear to cause a smaller backlash against the present government. If hosting the Cup is likelier to help them retain office in 2020, then so be it. After all, there were many even worse examples of such cynicism under their predecessors. Principle is all very well, but not if it keeps you permanently out in the cold.

    My heart says “save the money, to Hell with the Cup”. My head says “more information, please”.

    • David Mac 13.1

      Measuring it seems to become so subjective.

      Do we include Watercare’s upped bill on the extra toilet flushes at the Hilton? I guess it’s an exchange of funds we wouldn’t of had if the Cup wasn’t on. What about the overtime wages for the guy at the treatment station working late to keep the extra water chlorination needs met? He’s got extra money due to the Cup. The guy fitting tyres to taxis, he’ll see his customers 2 weeks before he normally would.

  14. joe90 14

    But now there is a further claim for $80 million.

    Same old stadium scam – rich pricks picking the public pocket.

    https://www.facebook.com/stopstadium/

  15. Kat 15

    Interesting how sailing and yachts bring out the class warfare. A lot of ordinary working people inhabit the world of sailing including the Americas Cup events across a wide selection of trades. You may even find a few Tongan rugby league supporters are involved in the boating industry. The interest in sailing and yachting is not just the idle pastime of rich pricks.

    The assertion that its just a bunch of rich sailors who are completely mercenary, well I would like to be present when you tell that to young Peter Burling and Blair Tuke.

  16. Mickomarvel 16

    It is also great seeing professional players turning their backs on huge game payments so they can represent the country of their birth or ethnic origin. Andrew Fifita for instance who was selected for Australia and could have earned $20,000 per test match and a winning bonus of $50,000 opted instead to play for Tonga and earn $500 per match. Onya Andrew

    Not sure why this is great. Isn’t it just another form of nationalism? Don’t get me wrong; I’ll cheer for the ABs or TNZ along with the best of them, but I don’t fool myself that this kiwi tribalism is in some way more virtuous than earning my living. However, if you are admitting nationalism into the discussion, why would the mass of Kiwi prefer to support a Tongan league team over a New Zealand yachting team?

    As for the two different “sports”, they’re not that different. Both involve highly paid professionals, both are media circuses, both are supported by sponsorship and backed by billionaires and both have considerable followings. The main difference between them is the perception that one of those followings is comprised of workers while the other consists of ‘nobs’. Possibly true once, but no longer an assumption you can safely make,IMO.

    If the next America’s Cup does not take place in Auckland, I think it will hurt the government in the polls. Equally, it will hurt them if they are seen as being profligate. They need to be able to find a good economic case to support it.

  17. timeforacupoftea 17

    We were in Dakota USA when the America’s Cup was on.
    My husband had to tell me not to make a spectacle of myself in a hotel because no live coverage of the Cup was being played.
    No one knew anything about it, never ever heard of it.
    Mind you Dakota is in the middle of America might explain it.
    Thank goodness for the app on my phone.

    Then again it would not worry us if we never got our chance to have the Cup here in NZ.
    Just watching the graphics by Taylor ? would be quite fine as long as that was live and for free.

  18. Mathias 18

    At least Rugby League got some coverage despite the usual negative reporting it always gets.

    Team NZ – ( that is an oxymoron ) is a rich man’s sport , always has been and should not be in the position of demanding anything from long suffering ratepayers.

    They will do as they are told and all these threats about losing the cup in 2021 because of their prefered option for the marina is not carried out is fear mongering.

    It is typical of the arrogance that has crept into society since that bastard Key and his colleagues were running the country.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • What the actual Hell?
    Keir Starmer has hinted that Labour might vote in favour of the Johnson government's shoddy deal, with the proviso that a second referendum is attached:Speaking to BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show, he said: “We will see what that looks like but it makes sense to say that by whatever ...
    3 hours ago
  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    2 days ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    2 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    3 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    3 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    3 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    4 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    4 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    4 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    4 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    5 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    5 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    6 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    6 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    6 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    6 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    6 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    33 mins ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago