Women wearing clothes

Written By: - Date published: 1:26 pm, September 2nd, 2016 - 109 comments
Categories: culture, Europe, International, racism, religion - Tags: ,

Franc Burkini muslim

India’s tourism minister Mahesh Sharma stated this week that tourists would be handed a list of do’s and don’ts at airports that would advise them “not to wear skirts” or “venture out alone in small cities.” Cue outrage on Twitter.

He clarified later that he was referring only to religious places, and that he “spoke out of concern.”

“I was speaking about religious places, like temples. I did not comment on what women should wear or not. I am the father of two daughters. I cannot put a ban on when women wear.” One suspects from the clarification that he participated in a discussion with the female members of his household.

But this is not frivolous. According to IMF Chief Executive Christine Lagarde, India’s economic output could increase as much as 27% if the number of female workers were to increase to the level of men. To do that, all Indian women would have to feel safe enough to travel out of the house.

In Christine Lagarde’s own country, France, Prime Minister Manuel Valls gave a rousing speech on Monday in which he hailed the bare breasts of Marianne, a national symbol of the French Republic.

“Marianne has a naked breast because she is feeding the people! She is not veiled, because she is free! That is the Republic!” His inference was that bare breasts were a symbol of France, while the Muslim headscarf was problematic.

The U.N. has called on French beach resorts to lift their bans on the Burkini, and France’s highest administrative court has ruled them illegal.

Both men and women are obsessed with what women wear. But it’s the men who make such statements with the force of ruling power behind them. In Riyadh, Mumbai, and the Riviera, women continue to have to fight to simply wear what they want.

109 comments on “Women wearing clothes”

  1. Scott 1

    Isn’t it Islam that is demanding women wear a particular, and depersonalising, garb?

    The French ban may be a problematic way to try and protect their society’s secularism, but I don’t mind the motive and at least they are not stoning to death those that breach their ban (or in the case of the photo in this post deliberately staging a scene to make a political / religious point).

    • weka 1.1

      Telling a woman she must unveil is the same as telling her she must veil.

      I would have thought that a democratic country with allegedly high standards of women’s rights would be getting that pretty basic respect right.

      • Scott 1.1.1

        Agree, as I said it is a problematic way to seek to protect their society’s secularism. Neither position is good. But they are not equally bad.

        • McFlock 1.1.1.1

          I’m not so sure about that. The penalties might be worse in some countries than others, but if one feels strongly enough to follow a particular religion by dressing in a particular way even if it’s outside the cultural norms of society, to me that’s significantly less problematic than a country enforcing a dress code for whatever reason.

          Body and hair-covering is common among Christian groups as well.

          • Anno1701 1.1.1.1.1

            “Body and hair-covering is common among Christian groups as well.”

            yep , thats why my wife left the JWs when she was 18

            wouldn’t let her wear trousers & couldn’t give a reasonable explanation other than “dogma”

          • Cinny 1.1.1.1.2

            Hair covering is a way to prevent women being closer to ‘god’ than men. It’s all about power, control and domination.

    • No, it isn’t, because “Islam” is not a monolithic hivemind.
      http://arabsinamerica.unc.edu/identity/veiling/hijab/

      Talking as though it is – plus repeating Daily Mail smears about people “staging” the aggressive use of police power to coerce a woman into stripping off her clothes – only really helps ISIS in the end:

      Daesh’s obsession with the “extinction” of the grey zone lies in the value of this narrative to its recruitment purposes. If it can convince impressionable and disgruntled Muslims that they cannot possibly live as Muslims in Europe, and that Daesh somehow embody the actualisation of Islamic ideals in the form of a utopian “state”, then potential adepts may feel squeezed into choosing a camp, a choice which Daesh seeks to facilitate with promises of redemption and uber-machismo and by playing on real concerns over the religious freedom of European Muslims.
      From this perspective, any state repression or racist backlash provoked by acts of terrorism is just an extra boon.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12002726/The-grey-zone-How-Isis-wants-to-divide-the-world-into-Muslims-and-crusaders.html

  2. In that photo why aren’t the police suitably dressed for the beach in their speedos. Another example of their utter hypocrisy.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    I hope the western colonialsts keep telling the inferior Indians what to do and what not to do, according to their own superior white priviliged colonial cultures.

  4. Siobhan 4

    Protecting Secularism at the beach.
    What a crock. The French may need to hire more police for the beach…

    Some Catholic Nuns are still wearing the full Habit , and have been photographed at the beach fully covered.

    Rastafarians. Dreadlocks are also ‘against society’s norm and presumably are ‘threat’ to secularism.

    Sikhs. Beard and Headwear.

    Brethrens, head scarfs, long sleeves.

    Orthodox Jews. Long skirts for the women.

    Goths in black jeans and leather jackets.

    • Scott 4.1

      You’re quite right, but at the moment there is one religious group that some members of are trying to force onto everyone and are running around killing people who don’t share their twisted stone-age barbaric views. Islam is the currently the primary threat to France’s secularism, and France has felt that quite directly more than once recently.

      In that respect Islam is quite different to all of the other examples you gave.

      I agree that the ban is problematic for many reasons, but I can understand where they are coming from.

      • You’re quite right, but at the moment there is one religious group that some members of are trying to force onto everyone and are running around killing people who don’t share their twisted stone-age barbaric views.

        That’s a terrible thing to say about Christianity.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Contemporary

        Wait, what’s that, you say? Only some very extremist fringe groups who claim to be Christian commit violent acts of terror and repression? They’re not really representative of all Christians, and as such, referring to “Christianity” as an enemy of the state is inaccurate and stigmatizing?

        Gosh, I wonder if there’s a lesson in that.

        • Scott 4.1.1.1

          Don’t get me wrong, I’d happily see the end of all the sky fairy stuff. But to suggest that France’s secularist nature is under threat from Christianity in the way it is from Islam is just not correct.

          • weka 4.1.1.1.1

            You missed the point. France is under threat from fundamentalism (and probably its own foreign policy). Islam as a religion isn’t responsible for that. Neither are Muslim women making choices what to wear.

          • Daveosaurus 4.1.1.1.2

            The Pope’s penguins are no better than Daesh. Go and google ‘Magdalen laundry’ if you don’t believe me.

          • Don't worry. Be happy 4.1.1.1.3

            Lets start a little list shall we….to test this “Muslims want to over run the whole World” theory…..how about we look back say 100 years….and ask ourselves just how many Muslim countries have been invaded and occupied by Western Christian countries….and then, for balance, how many Christian countries have suffered the same fate at the hands of Muslims.

            So….Algeria, Morocco, Lebanon, Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Indonesia, Malaysia….(feel free to add)

            Shall we look at countries where the large minority Muslim population endured the horror of ethnic cleansing by the Christian West perhaps….Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Philippines, the former Yugoslavia.

            Or conquered and occupied countries with large Muslim populations such as Malawi, Nigeria, Kenya….again the ones with the guns and jails worshipped the gentle Jesus.

            Feel free to add…

            (If you take the Christian out and just leave White…then you can add to the horror… The West Bank and Gaza and Chechnya.)

            So, in the last 100 years….where is the evidence of this take over of Western Christian civilisation again? Name countries invaded and occupied by Muslims?

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.1.3.1

              As with the Soviet Union, the fact that Islam is a shit form of governance meant its world domination project eventually ran out of steam. It hasn’t been an existential threat to western civilisation since the 17th Century. We conquered them instead – the difference being, of course, that because we don’t have a totalitarian ideology, the Muslim countries we conquered are still Muslim countries – the same courtesy wouldn’t have been extended to us if the roles had been reversed.

          • Outdoor 4.1.1.1.4

            Have you forgotten history? Try & remember what you learnt about the dark ages with the Roman church in control. Have you not noticed their increased presence & ability to influence governments? Wait till the climate change disaster hits & you will be back to church on Sunday as the pope is asking for now.

        • Chuck 4.1.1.2

          I note the link you kindly supplied had this to say…

          “According to terrorism expert David C. Rapoport, a “religious wave”, or cycle, of terrorism, dates from approximately 1979 to the present. According to Rapoport, this wave most prominently features Islamic terrorism, but also includes terrorism by Christians and other religious groups that may have been influenced by Islamic terrorism.”

          The Quran and other Islamic scripture is used to support Sharia law, which comes in mild / medium / hot versions (the mild version skips the more brutal parts of the Quran and Sharia). The medium and hot versions are still supported by 100’s millions of Muslims…which is in direct conflict with all civilised society.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.2.1

            In an example Chuck can perhaps relate to on a personal level, his political forebears opposed universal suffrage to the bitter end. Right wingers are the same the world over.

          • Stephanie Rodgers 4.1.1.2.2

            And the Bible is used to support “hot” versions of Christianity which justifies doing nothing to prevent the spread of diseases like HIV (because contraception is sinful) the deaths of women in pregnancy (life is sacred!) and the murder of gay and trans people.

            The problem is extremism, not the Qu’ran.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.2.2.1

              Cancer? There’s nothing particularly bad about that. Why, this person over here has an ingrown toenail!

              Crappy moral relativism aside, if you want to compare Christianity to Islam in the “oppressive totalitarianism” stakes, you’ll need the Christianity of 500 years ago, not today. Thing is, it’s not 500 years ago, it’s now, and Christianity isn’t the problem, Islam is. We mostly succeeded at stripping Christianity in western societies of its political and social influence and its murderous ideologues – but! It took a long time, a lot of dead bodies and, most of all, some commitment by progressives that religious oppression is not OK. If we really must have Islam present in western democracies, we must also put it through the same de-nazification process we put Christianity through, and if Muslims don’t like it they’re free to take their bullshit somewhere else.

            • Lloyd 4.1.1.2.2.2

              +1

      • KJT 4.1.2

        But. US Neo-liberals are not representative of all Americans.

  5. fender 5

    Yep, no scuba-diving headgear allowed on the beach in France, sorry folks.

    • Olwyn 5.1

      Indeed. And how can you tell the person who has covered up for religious reasons from the person who has covered up to avoid the sun? It is not so long ago we were all getting ordered to cover up and avoid the sun, and the very fair-skinned have little choice but to do so. Now, in France at least, the imperative seems to be to strip down and display our glorious freedom. After all, nothing says freedom like clutching your stomach muscles and surreptitiously trying to make sure that your bikini bottoms are not creeping up in an unattractive way.

  6. Bill 6

    Somewhere or other I read a piece reporting that others on the beach fucking well cheered the cops! 🙁

    Maybe, unreported, there are moves afoot to have widespread ‘hooded onesy’ beach protests of solidarity. Yeah. Sadly, I find myself doubting it.

  7. BM 7

    French take their culture very seriously, when in France, you do as the French do.
    You either except this or leave.

    This isn’t a gender issue, it’s a cultural issue.

  8. AmaKiwi 8

    What amazing creatures we humans are! How easily we can distract ourselves from problems that threaten our very survival.

  9. b waghorn 9

    How the fuck anyone can think bullying muslim woman is going to solve terrorism defies belief. Stupid bunch of gutless losers.

  10. Henry Filth 10

    I’m inclined to think that the French people have a right to define what constitutes their national culture.

    As do the people of Iran.

    • weka 10.1

      And where that culture oppresses people based on class, people of conscience should stand up and call them to account.

  11. swordfish 11

    UK Public’s attitudes (via late August YouGov):

    Ban the burka, says majority of the British public

    By a margin of more than two to one, the British public wants to ban people from wearing the burka

    Over the last few weeks France has been consumed by a heated debate on Islamic dress after the mayors of more than 30 seaside towns instituted a ban on burkinis at their beaches. The ban was later struck down by the country’s high court, but the debate has exposed significant cultural tensions in French society. Former president, and current presidential candidate, Nicholas Sarkozy promising to change the French constitution to ban burkinis should he be elected next year. Sarkozy instituted a ban on burkas and niqabs while he was in power.

    Here in Britain, banning the burka is a topic of discussion in the UKIP leadership contest after candidate Lisa Duffy called for a ban on wearing them in public places. New research from YouGov suggests this would be a popular policy with a majority of the public (57%) supporting a ban on wearing the burka in the UK, whilst just 25% are against outlawing it.

    Support for a ban rises as people get older, with just 34% of 18-24 year older supporting the ban, rising to 78% of those aged 65 or older.

    To what extent would you support or oppose a law that bans people from wearing the burka in the UK ?

    ……………………………….Support Ban ……………………….Oppose Ban

    All ………………………………………..57%………………………………….25%

    Age 18-24 …………………………….34%…………………………………40%

    Age 25-49 …………………………….46%…………………………………30%

    Age 50-64 …………………………….68%…………………………………18%

    Age 65+ ……………………………….78%………………………………….12%

    Working class people are also more likely to support the ban than middle class people (61% vs 54%).

    And by Party Support …

    To what extent would you support or oppose a law that bans people from wearing the burka in the UK ?

    …………………………………Support Ban ……………………..Oppose Ban

    Ukip ………………………………….84%…………………………………..7%

    Con …………………………………..66%…………………………………..17%

    Lab …………………………………..48%……………………………………37%

    Lib-Dem ……………………………42%…………………………………..30%

    There are only two demographic groups that are more likely to oppose a ban than support it: 18-24 year olds and Remain voters. Even then the numbers are relatively closely – Remain voters are net opposed to the ban by just 3%, whilst 18-24 year olds are 6% net opposed to the ban.

    Looking elsewhere, YouGov has found a similar level of support for a burka ban in Germany (62% supporting a ban and 27% opposing), whilst in the US a ban is strongly opposed, with 59% of people opposing the ban and just 27% supporting it

    Looking at attitudes to burkinis, again the UK is more in favour of banning them, although less strongly – 46% of people would support a burkini ban and 30% would oppose one.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Yep. The intellectual liberal left’s precious multiculturalism project is backfiring in a spectacular way.

  12. Anne 12

    It’s incomprehensible to me. WHY? What is the French authorities reason for banning the burkini? I look forward to the banning of full bodied wet suits on French beaches. What hypocrisy.

  13. Le Pen covered a fairly wide range of topics from the burkini debate to the Brexit results, but the best was saved for her warning to the world that a Hillary Presidency would spell global war and destruction.

    In the end of the interview, Le Pen made it very clear that she places France’s sovereignty and its citizens best interests, above the EU and the globalist agenda.

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      And Trump is hitting the very same notes. National identity, cultural distinctiveness and enforcement of borders.

  14. Sabine 14

    and then you have schools in the US shaming girls for wearing regular clothes that may reveal a collar bone, or may be a centimeter short on the hemline
    http://neatoday.org/2016/01/06/school-dress-codes-gender-bias/
    from the linked article

    quote” Sending the right message to students is important. Otherwise, says one of the Kentucky students in “Shame,” “It sends the message to boys that it’s all girls’ fault.…It wasn’t their fault that they were staring—it’s the girls’ fault,” she said.” quote end.

    Christians and swimmsuits. Oh well. http://www.remnantraiment.com/subpages/swimsuits.htm

    i think that generally speaking women should wear what ever they want to wear, in saying that we are still made accountable for for the comfort of men. So the observant, obedient muslima may a. not go swim at all or only in a burkini. For the observant, obedient fundamentalist christian girl it will be the same. Lest they stir desires in man (any man btw who just happenes to be near any girl) that can not rightfully be fullfilled cause they are not married. So in order for the girls and women to not ‘defraud’ the poor bloke who can’t help himself lusting after women that are not appropriator covered, we creating dress codes that only apply to the Ladies. Modesty for men and boys obviously has a different meaning.
    We then are patrolling women later in their life for not be perfectly groomed – lets herself go, being to well groomed – who the fuck she thinks she is, and it always ends up with ‘why did she wear this or that, and why was she here, and why did she go there etc etc etc when shit goes pear shaped and she defrauded a man so bad he could not control his urges and turned into a boy who will be boys cause that what we say? Innit?

    this is a good read about modesty in Christianity and i am quite sure that to an extend much of it could be translated over to modesty in Islam and for that matter into Judaism

    https://strangefigures.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/talking-back-to-patriarchy-part-4-joining-the-great-modesty-debate/

    Quote:
    I understand that our culture has placed a huge significance on gender independence and that considering the struggles of men while choosing your clothing seems almost oppressive, but as a man I can tell you that we are sinning constantly as we try to fight through this culture of sexual openness. Proverbs 5 makes it apparent that God designed the female body to be pleasing to a man. We are warned that we are to be satisfied visually by our wives and to avoid the women who try to entice us. God created your body to be a sacred object, it is a powerful tool that is meant to be used to created desire in your husband. To show off your legs, chest, stomach, or butt is to take something that God intended for the marriage bed and put it on display for anyone to see. This public display not only cheapens the value of your body it throws a massive stumbling block in the way of men who were designed by God to be drawn to your body. – G.N. Davis, “On Modesty”

    “But it’s HIS problem if he lusts after me” you may say, “If what I am wearing causes him to lust, then he has bigger issues that need to be dealt with before God.” And though that may be true, it DOES NOT negate the fact that you are still partially responsible because you are the “walking temptation” to begin with. Is that to say that had you not been around this brother would not have lusted after someone else, no, but that is to say that YOU are responsible to make certain that you are not causing your brother to stumble. – Kristy Ferguson, “Are You a Stumbling Block for Your Brother?”

    Sometimes when I see a girl provocatively dressed I’ll say to myself, “She probably doesn’t even know that 101 guys are going to devour her in their minds today. But then again maybe she does.”… I don’t know because I’ve never sat down with a girl and asked why. All I need to know is that the way she presents herself to the world is bait for my sinful mind to latch onto and I need to avoid it all costs…..I must confess that even church can have several mines scattered about. To the girls who are ignorant please serve your brothers in Christ and have your dad screen your wardrobe….And to the girls who don’t follow the pattern of the world, thank you….You are following scriptures commands and you are helping your brothers in the process. – a college student’s testimony from C.J. Mahaney’s book “Worldliness” Quote End.

    As for the french, topless bathing is common in France and young girls, grown women and very old women do it every day of summer. I still fail to see how wearing a burkini will prevent the man form not having impure thoughts, and how it makes sense for a girl to run around clad head to toe in a swimsuit. And i also would like to know how the girls fear that don’t want to wear the burkini but now must.

    I lived in the South of France from early 90 till end 90’s and would spend after that every year about 6 month there mainly for work. The muslimas and their brothers, fathers, husbands and the like wore standard bathing suits, the more modest ones often would wear a long t-shirt but would not swim. They were never prevented from participating in life other then by their own choice of lifestyle.

    Now the ladies in France like to go topless to the beach, should they stop and accommodate the imposed modesty needs of others?

    • RedLogix 14.1

      A thoughtful argument on the nature of modesty, and one that I have little quibble with. And its not my place in the world to pass comment on how any woman choses to express this, or not.

      But to my mind this is much less to do with modesty, than it is to do with symbolising purdah culture in a context where it is not welcome.

      • Sabine 14.1.1

        modesty is just a nicer word for it.

        • RedLogix 14.1.1.1

          Purdah goes well beyond modesty. It’s about segregation, control, suppression and hidden abuse.

          • Sabine 14.1.1.1.1

            i know that, but modesty is such a nicer word for it. NO? les restrictive. now just bring that hemline down, just button up that blouse a bit more, no ladies do not play sports, and ladies also don’t need to go to universities casue they get married and have babies…..nice modest well educated ladies that know their place.

            purdah.

  15. RedLogix 15

    So no objections to me wearing a Swastika patch to go with my SS cap then? /sarc

    All societies have dress codes and norms that have many meanings and signals attached to them. Pretending this is just a matter of personal freedom erases these messages.

    When I ask myself what message a Burkina on a French beach conveys, I conclude I don’t like it much. Its a symbol of something antithetical to everything European, almost a provocation.

    • So no objections to me wearing a Swastika patch to go with my SS cap then?

      You may have meant it sarcastically, but it’s exactly the point. Most European countries don’t protect freedom of speech or expression, and feel free to ban whatever they don’t like. If commenters on the thread think there’s some philosophical issue with a few French towns banning the burkini, let them stand up for the right to show symbols of fascism and deny the holocaust – those gratuitous breaches of human rights have been in place far longer and at a national level.

    • Sabine 15.2

      mate you go try that in Germany, or Italy, or France, maybe somewhere in Croatia, Greece.

      c’mon make my day and post pictures.

      go to a public beach dressed in your patch and SS cap.

      Oh my oh my oh my that would go viral before you could say booo.

    • Blatant strawman. Unless you honestly believe every Muslim woman wearing a headscarf is an agent of ISIS, which seems unlikely.

      • Psycho Milt 15.3.1

        How is it a strawman? If it’s OK for a government to ban clothing that symbolises an ideology its citizens find offensive, what basis is there for complaining about this particular ban? You personally may find Islam less offensive than fascism, but maybe others don’t – especially in towns that have experienced Muslim violence.

  16. b waghorn 16

    The police in nz wouldn’t force you to remove your patch and cap if you wore them so you’re wrong, try again

    • RedLogix 16.1

      So you happily support me in wearing Nazi regalia? Or not really?

      Maybe you think such a clothing choice would carry a symbolic meaning that is just a teenie bit offensive?

      Maybe the NZ Police wouldn’t act if they thought it just me being an idiot, but how about many thousands of us proclaiming a mass neo-nazi movement? Still no reaction?

      • b waghorn 16.1.1

        no I would think you were at best a bit fucked up ,but i wouldn’t support a law change so that police can forcibly make you remove it, it’s like gang patches in public places i don’t like them but at least you know who your dealing with.

    • The police in nz wouldn’t force you to remove your patch and cap if you wore them…

      The police in NZ wouldn’t have a problem with you wearing a burkini on the beach, either. The police in Nice or Cannes, however, would arrest you on sight for wearing Nazi regalia.

      • Sabine 16.2.1

        However, the Police in NZ would most likely tell me to get dressed and ‘decent’ were i to frolic around a beach top less.

        and i have run into issues when first coming to NZ, not even realising that people here literally wear t-shirts and board shorts to go for a swim.

        needless to say i don’t go to beaches to swim anymore, to much prudery going on there.

        • Psycho Milt 16.2.1.1

          Germany and Scandinavia are more advanced than us in various ways. Of course, Germany doesn’t hesitate to ban particular clothing, or opinions for that matter, if society deems them offensive. The French are by no means unusual in this respect.

        • weka 16.2.1.2

          There is no national law in NZ against being topless. Apparently some places have bylaws

          • Sabine 16.2.1.2.1

            there may be no law, but i suggest not you try it. You will be told in no uncertain terms that this is not acceptable.

            It happened to me. And try pointing out those that would dare to bare their boobies in NZ in public.

            • weka 16.2.1.2.1.1

              I used to sunbath and swim topless a lot when I was younger. I never got told not to, but I got sick of the middle aged men leering so I stopped. Nothing to do with modesty.

              I swim a lot nude now, but I choose where and when I do it, usually where there aren’t people close by. It doesn’t really bother me, the fitting in. But likewise, I occassionally am swimming nude around other people I don’t know, or I see others doing that, and no-one really seems to mind. There is a time and a place and a way /shrug.

          • RedLogix 16.2.1.2.2

            Yes but most people still avoid walking starkers down the main street.

            Time, place and context. The point is that clothing, or the lack thereof, always conveys a message. And modesty is only one small aspect of it.

            • Henry Filth 16.2.1.2.2.1

              I wondered how long it would be before someone decided that it’s all just relative in the end anyway.

            • weka 16.2.1.2.2.2

              I was pointing out that being topless in NZ isn’t a crime (Sabine said the police would ask her to cover up, I don’t think that’s true except where there are bylaws). Genital nudity can be however, and that’s a different thing for obvious reasons.

              • Sabine

                if someone wear to take offense at your naked boobies and they would call the police to take care of the women who is ‘indecently exposing herself’ the police would come and most likely ask you to cover up.

                while there is no law in NZ making it an illegal thing, there is also no law in NZ making it legal. so it is really up to the responding copper (if there is on on duty in that town – who knows now-a-days with cops being cut left right n center).

                • weka

                  Breasts are not part of the indecent exposure laws though. I guess it would depend on where you were but I can’t see the police going to s beach to investigate such a complaint.

                  But there does appear to be at least one council that has a bylaw re visible breasts. Would love to see how that is written to not incriminate women breast feeding.

                  If something doesn’t have a law written to control it then it is by default legal. That’s how laws work, everything is legal until someone writes a law making it illegal. Otherwise how would one know when one is breaking the law?

                  There’s some bits about the law and breasts here,

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boobs_on_Bikes

                  • Sabine

                    Weka, please accept that i may have experiences that differ to yours.

                    thanks.

                    • weka

                      Sabine, I’m not talking about my experience, I’m talking about what the law says. if you are talking solely about your experience of being told by police to cover up on a beach, that’s fine. In which case I would say that the police were acting outside of their authority unless there is a local bylaw.

                      However you appeared to be saying that in general in NZ if you are topless on a beach you can expect to be told to cover up by the police if someone complains.

                      My original comment was to point out that it is not illegal to have bare breasts in NZ, and that the police have no right in that kind of situation, and I’ve posted some links to support that.

                      This is a politcal blog, and this issue is a political legal one, so it makes sense I would want to talk about what the actual legal situation is.

                • weka

                  Police took two calls from the public concerning the exposure before visiting the beach and informing patrolling lifeguards a bare chest was not an offence.

                  Regarding general nudity,

                  New Plymouth police Sergeant Kayanna Holly said public nudity was not a big issue in Taranaki but time and place was key to getting away with getting it off.

                  “Generally it comes down to who is offended. If you are at a nudist beach, sweet. If you are the only one on the beach that is sweet too. But if there are people around who might get offended that’s different,” she said.

                  Section 27 of the Summary Offence Act 1981 classifies indecent exposure as occurring when a person who, in or within view of any public place, intentionally and obscenely exposes any part of his or her genitals.

                  Bare breasts are not indecent exposure.

                  However, that does not mean a topless sunbather will be safe, at least in the New Plymouth district.

                  A bylaw passed in 2008 prohibits any person to be or remain upon any part of a beach unless properly and sufficiently dressed.

                  http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/6321828/Nudity-not-necessarily-an-offence

  17. Mrs Brillo 17

    I expect you are all too young to remember that in the 1950s, 60s and 70s Australian beaches had beach inspectors charged with telling scantily clad women to put more clothes on.
    Never satisfied, some people.

    • Ad 17.1

      Age before beauty, to you i bow. 😉

    • Sabine 17.2

      the same thing happened in Germany. Bikinis were considered a thing from the devil and preachers spoke about the ‘ungodly’ women being Eve taunting poor Adam with the apple of lust.

  18. Observer Tokoroa 18

    . Why do women from some cultures cover right up to go to the Beach? And why are their husbands and sons permitted to wear normal beach wear at the Beach?

    . Church clothes are appropriate for Church. Beach togs are not appropriate in Church.

    . You would have to be utterly totally blind to confuse the Beach with Church. For the Beach is a place to relax and enjoy the Sun and the Sea.

    I do not think the French and the Christians can be blamed for treating the Beach as a place for bathing and a remarkable place to enjoy the Sun and the Sea.

    They have common sense on their side. Don’t they.

    .

  19. Mark 19

    True comments. Only when we are free of the yolk of sexism will HUMANITY truly be free

  20. Ross 20

    In France and Italy there have been recent examples of men telling women what they can and cannot wear.

    There are no women in France or Italy? Goodness, straight males there must be doing it tough. 🙂

  21. save nz 22

    Going around the Internet –

    “No woman in a burqa (or a hijab or a burkini) has ever done me any harm, But I was sacked (without explanation) by a man in a suit. Men in suits missold me pensions and endowments, costing me thousands of pounds. A man in a suit led us on a disastrous and illegal war. Men in suits led the banks and crashed the world economy. Other men in suits then increased the misery to millions through austerity. If we are to start telling people what to wear, maybe we should ban suits.”

    Henry Steward
    London

    • Ross 22.1

      That must be a rather boring country filled entirely with men. Where are all the women? Too busy being virtuous…

  22. Sabine 23

    i think we need to realise first why women were the burka, the hijab, the niquab, or a wig – as do orthodox christian.

    i think we need to realise first why women – western christian women – would never be seen in a skirt that is not full lenght, with hair that never saw a pair of sissors, with a blouse that is fully buttoned up with a full arm.

    i think we need to realise why women, western christian women – do not permit their children to leave house before they are married no matter if the child is 15 or 35.

    I think we need to realise why women, western christian women are not permitted to date, but have to court – dating with the purpose of marriage, and can not meet the propspective husband even after engagement by themselves but must be accompanied by a chaperone.

    And all this in the name of being a godly women, and modest, dutyfull, observant godly women, a helpmeet to her headship and the likes.

    nothing of this has anything to do with ‘modesty’. Modesty is something very private and what is modest to me might be outrageous to someone else. What looks modest on me, my be very revealing on someone with a different body type.

    Is a skin tight full body latex/rubber suit really that modest, or is it the covering of the hair that is modest? And then will the men that come with these girls/women be happy with the other women on the beach who wear their bikinis or are topless? Or should these girls than too adhere to the new standard of modesty?

    • BM 23.1

      The Orthodox Christian faith seems to be nonexistent in France.

      • Sabine 23.1.1

        yes dear.

      • Poission 23.1.2

        The orthodox christian faith exists in syria,where we have the largest christian city being under attack from us / and saudi barbarian moderates.

        https://twitter.com/hashtag/Mhardeh?src=hash

        • Sabine 23.1.2.1

          Augsburg,, Germany has a very large Syrian Orthodox Community. I know that cause i helped paint the Chapel when they build their new church in the early nineties. So much fun, 12 men from the church board explaining me that we should paint Mary as a pretty pale blond women 🙂 ha, as if ever. I just asked the guys to look at their women and if pretty pale blond came naturally.

          they got a lovely mother mary with jet black hair, brown eyes and a caramel complexion. the ladies loved her. 🙂

    • Ad 23.2

      The most efficient policing of women wearing clothes is other women. Like yourself.

      If you think your cartoon of all Christianity holding sway over all women has multinational power, let me introduce you to the world’s real clothing police:
      the global fashion industry and their media.

      Now there’s some multinational gendered power.

      • weka 23.2.1

        Are you suggesting that the fashion industry and media are controlled by women?

        I’m pretty sure that Sabine was talking about a small subset of Christianity.

      • Sabine 23.2.2

        First if you want to call the people living and working in Gloria vale cartoons for their form of Christianity be my guest.
        Secondly if you want to call the women of the Brethren cartoons for their form of Christianity be my guest.
        Thirdly if you want to call the baptists cartoons for their form of Christianity be my guest.
        but let me make it clear for you to understand, you missed teh point of my post completely.

        what i was trying to point out are the various forms of Christianity as they are preached and lived today, in our western world. namely that some live an extrememly liberal interpretation of the bible, and others are very rigid interpretation. The question is now, what is the correct interpretation? My liberal on or your more strict form.

        you then completly miss the point which i stated earlier that the one thing all these three religions – islam, conservative judaism, orthodox christianity and fundamental evangelism, fundamental mormonism, have in common. Namely that the matter of lust, sexual desires is a problem for women that they are soley responsible for.

        It is up to the women to make sure Men are not tempted, defrauded, driven to lust that can not right fully fullfilled cause not married. Thus for this to prevent the women must cover up.
        Again, personally non of this is my business, however when these issues infringe in my rights to wear what i want on the beach, when these issues infringe in my rights to safety on a beach or any holdiay spot or even just out and about in shorts and t-shirt because i don’t subscribe tot he notion that man are all beasts that can not controll their urges when they see the naked knees of a women, then we have an issue.

        Fact is, that if women would not grow up in a society that is ruled my Religion they might not consider their body sinful that must be covered up hidden away lest some geezer whom the not even know gets a boner and who will then blame the bitch for not putting out or up?

    • i think we need to realise first why women – western christian women – would never be seen in a skirt that is not full lenght, with hair that never saw a pair of sissors, with a blouse that is fully buttoned up with a full arm.

      Of more relevance is how we got rid of that from western societies, the time, the struggles, the violence and misery it took to get rid of it, whether we’re glad we got rid of it and how we feel about it creeping it back in again.

  23. Observer Tokoroa 24

    .Hi Sabine
    .
    “I think we need to realise why women, western christian women are not permitted to date, ”

    . Could you tell me where such Christian women live.

    .
    Thanks

  24. Lloyd 25

    What about rash vests?

  25. Observer Tokoroa 26

    .
    . Gloriavale is but a very tiny infinitesimal group of religious people.

    . What they do or don’t do has no affect on the billions of Christians Sabine.
    .

    regards
    Observer

  26. jcuknz 27

    There is a saying “when in Rome do as the Romans do” which solves the problem for many…. so it is OK to go topless/bottomless? in France but other countries no way except in Nudist Clubs.

  27. Amanda Atkinson 28

    This is whole point, and where both sides of the debate lose the plot … if these women are oppressed and forced to wear these things because of their cavemen husbands, then the law is just, because the intention is to remove this oppression, but, if these women are choosing of their own free will to wear them, then this law is a disgrace. Clearly, there are women in both camps, (which percentage in each we can never, and will never know) so clearly there is no easy answer, and no clear right or wrong, and suggestions as to what is right or wrong, without taking into account those 2 opposite aspects to this, lacks critical thought.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    1 day ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    1 day ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    2 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    3 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    3 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    4 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    5 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    5 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago