web analytics

Women wearing clothes

Written By: - Date published: 1:26 pm, September 2nd, 2016 - 109 comments
Categories: culture, Europe, International, racism, religion - Tags: ,

Franc Burkini muslim

India’s tourism minister Mahesh Sharma stated this week that tourists would be handed a list of do’s and don’ts at airports that would advise them “not to wear skirts” or “venture out alone in small cities.” Cue outrage on Twitter.

He clarified later that he was referring only to religious places, and that he “spoke out of concern.”

“I was speaking about religious places, like temples. I did not comment on what women should wear or not. I am the father of two daughters. I cannot put a ban on when women wear.” One suspects from the clarification that he participated in a discussion with the female members of his household.

But this is not frivolous. According to IMF Chief Executive Christine Lagarde, India’s economic output could increase as much as 27% if the number of female workers were to increase to the level of men. To do that, all Indian women would have to feel safe enough to travel out of the house.

In Christine Lagarde’s own country, France, Prime Minister Manuel Valls gave a rousing speech on Monday in which he hailed the bare breasts of Marianne, a national symbol of the French Republic.

“Marianne has a naked breast because she is feeding the people! She is not veiled, because she is free! That is the Republic!” His inference was that bare breasts were a symbol of France, while the Muslim headscarf was problematic.

The U.N. has called on French beach resorts to lift their bans on the Burkini, and France’s highest administrative court has ruled them illegal.

Both men and women are obsessed with what women wear. But it’s the men who make such statements with the force of ruling power behind them. In Riyadh, Mumbai, and the Riviera, women continue to have to fight to simply wear what they want.

109 comments on “Women wearing clothes”

  1. Scott 1

    Isn’t it Islam that is demanding women wear a particular, and depersonalising, garb?

    The French ban may be a problematic way to try and protect their society’s secularism, but I don’t mind the motive and at least they are not stoning to death those that breach their ban (or in the case of the photo in this post deliberately staging a scene to make a political / religious point).

    • weka 1.1

      Telling a woman she must unveil is the same as telling her she must veil.

      I would have thought that a democratic country with allegedly high standards of women’s rights would be getting that pretty basic respect right.

      • Scott 1.1.1

        Agree, as I said it is a problematic way to seek to protect their society’s secularism. Neither position is good. But they are not equally bad.

        • McFlock 1.1.1.1

          I’m not so sure about that. The penalties might be worse in some countries than others, but if one feels strongly enough to follow a particular religion by dressing in a particular way even if it’s outside the cultural norms of society, to me that’s significantly less problematic than a country enforcing a dress code for whatever reason.

          Body and hair-covering is common among Christian groups as well.

          • Anno1701 1.1.1.1.1

            “Body and hair-covering is common among Christian groups as well.”

            yep , thats why my wife left the JWs when she was 18

            wouldn’t let her wear trousers & couldn’t give a reasonable explanation other than “dogma”

          • Cinny 1.1.1.1.2

            Hair covering is a way to prevent women being closer to ‘god’ than men. It’s all about power, control and domination.

    • No, it isn’t, because “Islam” is not a monolithic hivemind.
      http://arabsinamerica.unc.edu/identity/veiling/hijab/

      Talking as though it is – plus repeating Daily Mail smears about people “staging” the aggressive use of police power to coerce a woman into stripping off her clothes – only really helps ISIS in the end:

      Daesh’s obsession with the “extinction” of the grey zone lies in the value of this narrative to its recruitment purposes. If it can convince impressionable and disgruntled Muslims that they cannot possibly live as Muslims in Europe, and that Daesh somehow embody the actualisation of Islamic ideals in the form of a utopian “state”, then potential adepts may feel squeezed into choosing a camp, a choice which Daesh seeks to facilitate with promises of redemption and uber-machismo and by playing on real concerns over the religious freedom of European Muslims.
      From this perspective, any state repression or racist backlash provoked by acts of terrorism is just an extra boon.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12002726/The-grey-zone-How-Isis-wants-to-divide-the-world-into-Muslims-and-crusaders.html

  2. In that photo why aren’t the police suitably dressed for the beach in their speedos. Another example of their utter hypocrisy.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    I hope the western colonialsts keep telling the inferior Indians what to do and what not to do, according to their own superior white priviliged colonial cultures.

  4. Siobhan 4

    Protecting Secularism at the beach.
    What a crock. The French may need to hire more police for the beach…

    Some Catholic Nuns are still wearing the full Habit , and have been photographed at the beach fully covered.

    Rastafarians. Dreadlocks are also ‘against society’s norm and presumably are ‘threat’ to secularism.

    Sikhs. Beard and Headwear.

    Brethrens, head scarfs, long sleeves.

    Orthodox Jews. Long skirts for the women.

    Goths in black jeans and leather jackets.

    • Scott 4.1

      You’re quite right, but at the moment there is one religious group that some members of are trying to force onto everyone and are running around killing people who don’t share their twisted stone-age barbaric views. Islam is the currently the primary threat to France’s secularism, and France has felt that quite directly more than once recently.

      In that respect Islam is quite different to all of the other examples you gave.

      I agree that the ban is problematic for many reasons, but I can understand where they are coming from.

      • You’re quite right, but at the moment there is one religious group that some members of are trying to force onto everyone and are running around killing people who don’t share their twisted stone-age barbaric views.

        That’s a terrible thing to say about Christianity.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Contemporary

        Wait, what’s that, you say? Only some very extremist fringe groups who claim to be Christian commit violent acts of terror and repression? They’re not really representative of all Christians, and as such, referring to “Christianity” as an enemy of the state is inaccurate and stigmatizing?

        Gosh, I wonder if there’s a lesson in that.

        • Scott 4.1.1.1

          Don’t get me wrong, I’d happily see the end of all the sky fairy stuff. But to suggest that France’s secularist nature is under threat from Christianity in the way it is from Islam is just not correct.

          • weka 4.1.1.1.1

            You missed the point. France is under threat from fundamentalism (and probably its own foreign policy). Islam as a religion isn’t responsible for that. Neither are Muslim women making choices what to wear.

          • Daveosaurus 4.1.1.1.2

            The Pope’s penguins are no better than Daesh. Go and google ‘Magdalen laundry’ if you don’t believe me.

          • Don't worry. Be happy 4.1.1.1.3

            Lets start a little list shall we….to test this “Muslims want to over run the whole World” theory…..how about we look back say 100 years….and ask ourselves just how many Muslim countries have been invaded and occupied by Western Christian countries….and then, for balance, how many Christian countries have suffered the same fate at the hands of Muslims.

            So….Algeria, Morocco, Lebanon, Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Indonesia, Malaysia….(feel free to add)

            Shall we look at countries where the large minority Muslim population endured the horror of ethnic cleansing by the Christian West perhaps….Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Philippines, the former Yugoslavia.

            Or conquered and occupied countries with large Muslim populations such as Malawi, Nigeria, Kenya….again the ones with the guns and jails worshipped the gentle Jesus.

            Feel free to add…

            (If you take the Christian out and just leave White…then you can add to the horror… The West Bank and Gaza and Chechnya.)

            So, in the last 100 years….where is the evidence of this take over of Western Christian civilisation again? Name countries invaded and occupied by Muslims?

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.1.3.1

              As with the Soviet Union, the fact that Islam is a shit form of governance meant its world domination project eventually ran out of steam. It hasn’t been an existential threat to western civilisation since the 17th Century. We conquered them instead – the difference being, of course, that because we don’t have a totalitarian ideology, the Muslim countries we conquered are still Muslim countries – the same courtesy wouldn’t have been extended to us if the roles had been reversed.

          • Outdoor 4.1.1.1.4

            Have you forgotten history? Try & remember what you learnt about the dark ages with the Roman church in control. Have you not noticed their increased presence & ability to influence governments? Wait till the climate change disaster hits & you will be back to church on Sunday as the pope is asking for now.

        • Chuck 4.1.1.2

          I note the link you kindly supplied had this to say…

          “According to terrorism expert David C. Rapoport, a “religious wave”, or cycle, of terrorism, dates from approximately 1979 to the present. According to Rapoport, this wave most prominently features Islamic terrorism, but also includes terrorism by Christians and other religious groups that may have been influenced by Islamic terrorism.”

          The Quran and other Islamic scripture is used to support Sharia law, which comes in mild / medium / hot versions (the mild version skips the more brutal parts of the Quran and Sharia). The medium and hot versions are still supported by 100’s millions of Muslims…which is in direct conflict with all civilised society.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.2.1

            In an example Chuck can perhaps relate to on a personal level, his political forebears opposed universal suffrage to the bitter end. Right wingers are the same the world over.

          • Stephanie Rodgers 4.1.1.2.2

            And the Bible is used to support “hot” versions of Christianity which justifies doing nothing to prevent the spread of diseases like HIV (because contraception is sinful) the deaths of women in pregnancy (life is sacred!) and the murder of gay and trans people.

            The problem is extremism, not the Qu’ran.

            • Psycho Milt 4.1.1.2.2.1

              Cancer? There’s nothing particularly bad about that. Why, this person over here has an ingrown toenail!

              Crappy moral relativism aside, if you want to compare Christianity to Islam in the “oppressive totalitarianism” stakes, you’ll need the Christianity of 500 years ago, not today. Thing is, it’s not 500 years ago, it’s now, and Christianity isn’t the problem, Islam is. We mostly succeeded at stripping Christianity in western societies of its political and social influence and its murderous ideologues – but! It took a long time, a lot of dead bodies and, most of all, some commitment by progressives that religious oppression is not OK. If we really must have Islam present in western democracies, we must also put it through the same de-nazification process we put Christianity through, and if Muslims don’t like it they’re free to take their bullshit somewhere else.

            • Lloyd 4.1.1.2.2.2

              +1

      • KJT 4.1.2

        But. US Neo-liberals are not representative of all Americans.

  5. fender 5

    Yep, no scuba-diving headgear allowed on the beach in France, sorry folks.

    • Olwyn 5.1

      Indeed. And how can you tell the person who has covered up for religious reasons from the person who has covered up to avoid the sun? It is not so long ago we were all getting ordered to cover up and avoid the sun, and the very fair-skinned have little choice but to do so. Now, in France at least, the imperative seems to be to strip down and display our glorious freedom. After all, nothing says freedom like clutching your stomach muscles and surreptitiously trying to make sure that your bikini bottoms are not creeping up in an unattractive way.

  6. Bill 6

    Somewhere or other I read a piece reporting that others on the beach fucking well cheered the cops! 🙁

    Maybe, unreported, there are moves afoot to have widespread ‘hooded onesy’ beach protests of solidarity. Yeah. Sadly, I find myself doubting it.

  7. BM 7

    French take their culture very seriously, when in France, you do as the French do.
    You either except this or leave.

    This isn’t a gender issue, it’s a cultural issue.

  8. AmaKiwi 8

    What amazing creatures we humans are! How easily we can distract ourselves from problems that threaten our very survival.

  9. b waghorn 9

    How the fuck anyone can think bullying muslim woman is going to solve terrorism defies belief. Stupid bunch of gutless losers.

  10. Henry Filth 10

    I’m inclined to think that the French people have a right to define what constitutes their national culture.

    As do the people of Iran.

    • weka 10.1

      And where that culture oppresses people based on class, people of conscience should stand up and call them to account.

  11. swordfish 11

    UK Public’s attitudes (via late August YouGov):

    Ban the burka, says majority of the British public

    By a margin of more than two to one, the British public wants to ban people from wearing the burka

    Over the last few weeks France has been consumed by a heated debate on Islamic dress after the mayors of more than 30 seaside towns instituted a ban on burkinis at their beaches. The ban was later struck down by the country’s high court, but the debate has exposed significant cultural tensions in French society. Former president, and current presidential candidate, Nicholas Sarkozy promising to change the French constitution to ban burkinis should he be elected next year. Sarkozy instituted a ban on burkas and niqabs while he was in power.

    Here in Britain, banning the burka is a topic of discussion in the UKIP leadership contest after candidate Lisa Duffy called for a ban on wearing them in public places. New research from YouGov suggests this would be a popular policy with a majority of the public (57%) supporting a ban on wearing the burka in the UK, whilst just 25% are against outlawing it.

    Support for a ban rises as people get older, with just 34% of 18-24 year older supporting the ban, rising to 78% of those aged 65 or older.

    To what extent would you support or oppose a law that bans people from wearing the burka in the UK ?

    ……………………………….Support Ban ……………………….Oppose Ban

    All ………………………………………..57%………………………………….25%

    Age 18-24 …………………………….34%…………………………………40%

    Age 25-49 …………………………….46%…………………………………30%

    Age 50-64 …………………………….68%…………………………………18%

    Age 65+ ……………………………….78%………………………………….12%

    Working class people are also more likely to support the ban than middle class people (61% vs 54%).

    And by Party Support …

    To what extent would you support or oppose a law that bans people from wearing the burka in the UK ?

    …………………………………Support Ban ……………………..Oppose Ban

    Ukip ………………………………….84%…………………………………..7%

    Con …………………………………..66%…………………………………..17%

    Lab …………………………………..48%……………………………………37%

    Lib-Dem ……………………………42%…………………………………..30%

    There are only two demographic groups that are more likely to oppose a ban than support it: 18-24 year olds and Remain voters. Even then the numbers are relatively closely – Remain voters are net opposed to the ban by just 3%, whilst 18-24 year olds are 6% net opposed to the ban.

    Looking elsewhere, YouGov has found a similar level of support for a burka ban in Germany (62% supporting a ban and 27% opposing), whilst in the US a ban is strongly opposed, with 59% of people opposing the ban and just 27% supporting it

    Looking at attitudes to burkinis, again the UK is more in favour of banning them, although less strongly – 46% of people would support a burkini ban and 30% would oppose one.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Yep. The intellectual liberal left’s precious multiculturalism project is backfiring in a spectacular way.

  12. Anne 12

    It’s incomprehensible to me. WHY? What is the French authorities reason for banning the burkini? I look forward to the banning of full bodied wet suits on French beaches. What hypocrisy.

  13. Le Pen covered a fairly wide range of topics from the burkini debate to the Brexit results, but the best was saved for her warning to the world that a Hillary Presidency would spell global war and destruction.

    In the end of the interview, Le Pen made it very clear that she places France’s sovereignty and its citizens best interests, above the EU and the globalist agenda.

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      And Trump is hitting the very same notes. National identity, cultural distinctiveness and enforcement of borders.

  14. Sabine 14

    and then you have schools in the US shaming girls for wearing regular clothes that may reveal a collar bone, or may be a centimeter short on the hemline
    http://neatoday.org/2016/01/06/school-dress-codes-gender-bias/
    from the linked article

    quote” Sending the right message to students is important. Otherwise, says one of the Kentucky students in “Shame,” “It sends the message to boys that it’s all girls’ fault.…It wasn’t their fault that they were staring—it’s the girls’ fault,” she said.” quote end.

    Christians and swimmsuits. Oh well. http://www.remnantraiment.com/subpages/swimsuits.htm

    i think that generally speaking women should wear what ever they want to wear, in saying that we are still made accountable for for the comfort of men. So the observant, obedient muslima may a. not go swim at all or only in a burkini. For the observant, obedient fundamentalist christian girl it will be the same. Lest they stir desires in man (any man btw who just happenes to be near any girl) that can not rightfully be fullfilled cause they are not married. So in order for the girls and women to not ‘defraud’ the poor bloke who can’t help himself lusting after women that are not appropriator covered, we creating dress codes that only apply to the Ladies. Modesty for men and boys obviously has a different meaning.
    We then are patrolling women later in their life for not be perfectly groomed – lets herself go, being to well groomed – who the fuck she thinks she is, and it always ends up with ‘why did she wear this or that, and why was she here, and why did she go there etc etc etc when shit goes pear shaped and she defrauded a man so bad he could not control his urges and turned into a boy who will be boys cause that what we say? Innit?

    this is a good read about modesty in Christianity and i am quite sure that to an extend much of it could be translated over to modesty in Islam and for that matter into Judaism

    https://strangefigures.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/talking-back-to-patriarchy-part-4-joining-the-great-modesty-debate/

    Quote:
    I understand that our culture has placed a huge significance on gender independence and that considering the struggles of men while choosing your clothing seems almost oppressive, but as a man I can tell you that we are sinning constantly as we try to fight through this culture of sexual openness. Proverbs 5 makes it apparent that God designed the female body to be pleasing to a man. We are warned that we are to be satisfied visually by our wives and to avoid the women who try to entice us. God created your body to be a sacred object, it is a powerful tool that is meant to be used to created desire in your husband. To show off your legs, chest, stomach, or butt is to take something that God intended for the marriage bed and put it on display for anyone to see. This public display not only cheapens the value of your body it throws a massive stumbling block in the way of men who were designed by God to be drawn to your body. – G.N. Davis, “On Modesty”

    “But it’s HIS problem if he lusts after me” you may say, “If what I am wearing causes him to lust, then he has bigger issues that need to be dealt with before God.” And though that may be true, it DOES NOT negate the fact that you are still partially responsible because you are the “walking temptation” to begin with. Is that to say that had you not been around this brother would not have lusted after someone else, no, but that is to say that YOU are responsible to make certain that you are not causing your brother to stumble. – Kristy Ferguson, “Are You a Stumbling Block for Your Brother?”

    Sometimes when I see a girl provocatively dressed I’ll say to myself, “She probably doesn’t even know that 101 guys are going to devour her in their minds today. But then again maybe she does.”… I don’t know because I’ve never sat down with a girl and asked why. All I need to know is that the way she presents herself to the world is bait for my sinful mind to latch onto and I need to avoid it all costs…..I must confess that even church can have several mines scattered about. To the girls who are ignorant please serve your brothers in Christ and have your dad screen your wardrobe….And to the girls who don’t follow the pattern of the world, thank you….You are following scriptures commands and you are helping your brothers in the process. – a college student’s testimony from C.J. Mahaney’s book “Worldliness” Quote End.

    As for the french, topless bathing is common in France and young girls, grown women and very old women do it every day of summer. I still fail to see how wearing a burkini will prevent the man form not having impure thoughts, and how it makes sense for a girl to run around clad head to toe in a swimsuit. And i also would like to know how the girls fear that don’t want to wear the burkini but now must.

    I lived in the South of France from early 90 till end 90’s and would spend after that every year about 6 month there mainly for work. The muslimas and their brothers, fathers, husbands and the like wore standard bathing suits, the more modest ones often would wear a long t-shirt but would not swim. They were never prevented from participating in life other then by their own choice of lifestyle.

    Now the ladies in France like to go topless to the beach, should they stop and accommodate the imposed modesty needs of others?

    • RedLogix 14.1

      A thoughtful argument on the nature of modesty, and one that I have little quibble with. And its not my place in the world to pass comment on how any woman choses to express this, or not.

      But to my mind this is much less to do with modesty, than it is to do with symbolising purdah culture in a context where it is not welcome.

      • Sabine 14.1.1

        modesty is just a nicer word for it.

        • RedLogix 14.1.1.1

          Purdah goes well beyond modesty. It’s about segregation, control, suppression and hidden abuse.

          • Sabine 14.1.1.1.1

            i know that, but modesty is such a nicer word for it. NO? les restrictive. now just bring that hemline down, just button up that blouse a bit more, no ladies do not play sports, and ladies also don’t need to go to universities casue they get married and have babies…..nice modest well educated ladies that know their place.

            purdah.

  15. RedLogix 15

    So no objections to me wearing a Swastika patch to go with my SS cap then? /sarc

    All societies have dress codes and norms that have many meanings and signals attached to them. Pretending this is just a matter of personal freedom erases these messages.

    When I ask myself what message a Burkina on a French beach conveys, I conclude I don’t like it much. Its a symbol of something antithetical to everything European, almost a provocation.

    • So no objections to me wearing a Swastika patch to go with my SS cap then?

      You may have meant it sarcastically, but it’s exactly the point. Most European countries don’t protect freedom of speech or expression, and feel free to ban whatever they don’t like. If commenters on the thread think there’s some philosophical issue with a few French towns banning the burkini, let them stand up for the right to show symbols of fascism and deny the holocaust – those gratuitous breaches of human rights have been in place far longer and at a national level.

    • Sabine 15.2

      mate you go try that in Germany, or Italy, or France, maybe somewhere in Croatia, Greece.

      c’mon make my day and post pictures.

      go to a public beach dressed in your patch and SS cap.

      Oh my oh my oh my that would go viral before you could say booo.

    • Blatant strawman. Unless you honestly believe every Muslim woman wearing a headscarf is an agent of ISIS, which seems unlikely.

      • Psycho Milt 15.3.1

        How is it a strawman? If it’s OK for a government to ban clothing that symbolises an ideology its citizens find offensive, what basis is there for complaining about this particular ban? You personally may find Islam less offensive than fascism, but maybe others don’t – especially in towns that have experienced Muslim violence.

  16. b waghorn 16

    The police in nz wouldn’t force you to remove your patch and cap if you wore them so you’re wrong, try again

    • RedLogix 16.1

      So you happily support me in wearing Nazi regalia? Or not really?

      Maybe you think such a clothing choice would carry a symbolic meaning that is just a teenie bit offensive?

      Maybe the NZ Police wouldn’t act if they thought it just me being an idiot, but how about many thousands of us proclaiming a mass neo-nazi movement? Still no reaction?

      • b waghorn 16.1.1

        no I would think you were at best a bit fucked up ,but i wouldn’t support a law change so that police can forcibly make you remove it, it’s like gang patches in public places i don’t like them but at least you know who your dealing with.

    • The police in nz wouldn’t force you to remove your patch and cap if you wore them…

      The police in NZ wouldn’t have a problem with you wearing a burkini on the beach, either. The police in Nice or Cannes, however, would arrest you on sight for wearing Nazi regalia.

      • Sabine 16.2.1

        However, the Police in NZ would most likely tell me to get dressed and ‘decent’ were i to frolic around a beach top less.

        and i have run into issues when first coming to NZ, not even realising that people here literally wear t-shirts and board shorts to go for a swim.

        needless to say i don’t go to beaches to swim anymore, to much prudery going on there.

        • Psycho Milt 16.2.1.1

          Germany and Scandinavia are more advanced than us in various ways. Of course, Germany doesn’t hesitate to ban particular clothing, or opinions for that matter, if society deems them offensive. The French are by no means unusual in this respect.

        • weka 16.2.1.2

          There is no national law in NZ against being topless. Apparently some places have bylaws

          • Sabine 16.2.1.2.1

            there may be no law, but i suggest not you try it. You will be told in no uncertain terms that this is not acceptable.

            It happened to me. And try pointing out those that would dare to bare their boobies in NZ in public.

            • weka 16.2.1.2.1.1

              I used to sunbath and swim topless a lot when I was younger. I never got told not to, but I got sick of the middle aged men leering so I stopped. Nothing to do with modesty.

              I swim a lot nude now, but I choose where and when I do it, usually where there aren’t people close by. It doesn’t really bother me, the fitting in. But likewise, I occassionally am swimming nude around other people I don’t know, or I see others doing that, and no-one really seems to mind. There is a time and a place and a way /shrug.

          • RedLogix 16.2.1.2.2

            Yes but most people still avoid walking starkers down the main street.

            Time, place and context. The point is that clothing, or the lack thereof, always conveys a message. And modesty is only one small aspect of it.

            • Henry Filth 16.2.1.2.2.1

              I wondered how long it would be before someone decided that it’s all just relative in the end anyway.

            • weka 16.2.1.2.2.2

              I was pointing out that being topless in NZ isn’t a crime (Sabine said the police would ask her to cover up, I don’t think that’s true except where there are bylaws). Genital nudity can be however, and that’s a different thing for obvious reasons.

              • Sabine

                if someone wear to take offense at your naked boobies and they would call the police to take care of the women who is ‘indecently exposing herself’ the police would come and most likely ask you to cover up.

                while there is no law in NZ making it an illegal thing, there is also no law in NZ making it legal. so it is really up to the responding copper (if there is on on duty in that town – who knows now-a-days with cops being cut left right n center).

                • weka

                  Breasts are not part of the indecent exposure laws though. I guess it would depend on where you were but I can’t see the police going to s beach to investigate such a complaint.

                  But there does appear to be at least one council that has a bylaw re visible breasts. Would love to see how that is written to not incriminate women breast feeding.

                  If something doesn’t have a law written to control it then it is by default legal. That’s how laws work, everything is legal until someone writes a law making it illegal. Otherwise how would one know when one is breaking the law?

                  There’s some bits about the law and breasts here,

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boobs_on_Bikes

                  • Sabine

                    Weka, please accept that i may have experiences that differ to yours.

                    thanks.

                    • weka

                      Sabine, I’m not talking about my experience, I’m talking about what the law says. if you are talking solely about your experience of being told by police to cover up on a beach, that’s fine. In which case I would say that the police were acting outside of their authority unless there is a local bylaw.

                      However you appeared to be saying that in general in NZ if you are topless on a beach you can expect to be told to cover up by the police if someone complains.

                      My original comment was to point out that it is not illegal to have bare breasts in NZ, and that the police have no right in that kind of situation, and I’ve posted some links to support that.

                      This is a politcal blog, and this issue is a political legal one, so it makes sense I would want to talk about what the actual legal situation is.

                • weka

                  Police took two calls from the public concerning the exposure before visiting the beach and informing patrolling lifeguards a bare chest was not an offence.

                  Regarding general nudity,

                  New Plymouth police Sergeant Kayanna Holly said public nudity was not a big issue in Taranaki but time and place was key to getting away with getting it off.

                  “Generally it comes down to who is offended. If you are at a nudist beach, sweet. If you are the only one on the beach that is sweet too. But if there are people around who might get offended that’s different,” she said.

                  Section 27 of the Summary Offence Act 1981 classifies indecent exposure as occurring when a person who, in or within view of any public place, intentionally and obscenely exposes any part of his or her genitals.

                  Bare breasts are not indecent exposure.

                  However, that does not mean a topless sunbather will be safe, at least in the New Plymouth district.

                  A bylaw passed in 2008 prohibits any person to be or remain upon any part of a beach unless properly and sufficiently dressed.

                  http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/6321828/Nudity-not-necessarily-an-offence

  17. Mrs Brillo 17

    I expect you are all too young to remember that in the 1950s, 60s and 70s Australian beaches had beach inspectors charged with telling scantily clad women to put more clothes on.
    Never satisfied, some people.

    • Ad 17.1

      Age before beauty, to you i bow. 😉

    • Sabine 17.2

      the same thing happened in Germany. Bikinis were considered a thing from the devil and preachers spoke about the ‘ungodly’ women being Eve taunting poor Adam with the apple of lust.

  18. Observer Tokoroa 18

    . Why do women from some cultures cover right up to go to the Beach? And why are their husbands and sons permitted to wear normal beach wear at the Beach?

    . Church clothes are appropriate for Church. Beach togs are not appropriate in Church.

    . You would have to be utterly totally blind to confuse the Beach with Church. For the Beach is a place to relax and enjoy the Sun and the Sea.

    I do not think the French and the Christians can be blamed for treating the Beach as a place for bathing and a remarkable place to enjoy the Sun and the Sea.

    They have common sense on their side. Don’t they.

    .

  19. Mark 19

    True comments. Only when we are free of the yolk of sexism will HUMANITY truly be free

  20. Ross 20

    In France and Italy there have been recent examples of men telling women what they can and cannot wear.

    There are no women in France or Italy? Goodness, straight males there must be doing it tough. 🙂

  21. save nz 22

    Going around the Internet –

    “No woman in a burqa (or a hijab or a burkini) has ever done me any harm, But I was sacked (without explanation) by a man in a suit. Men in suits missold me pensions and endowments, costing me thousands of pounds. A man in a suit led us on a disastrous and illegal war. Men in suits led the banks and crashed the world economy. Other men in suits then increased the misery to millions through austerity. If we are to start telling people what to wear, maybe we should ban suits.”

    Henry Steward
    London

    • Ross 22.1

      That must be a rather boring country filled entirely with men. Where are all the women? Too busy being virtuous…

  22. Sabine 23

    i think we need to realise first why women were the burka, the hijab, the niquab, or a wig – as do orthodox christian.

    i think we need to realise first why women – western christian women – would never be seen in a skirt that is not full lenght, with hair that never saw a pair of sissors, with a blouse that is fully buttoned up with a full arm.

    i think we need to realise why women, western christian women – do not permit their children to leave house before they are married no matter if the child is 15 or 35.

    I think we need to realise why women, western christian women are not permitted to date, but have to court – dating with the purpose of marriage, and can not meet the propspective husband even after engagement by themselves but must be accompanied by a chaperone.

    And all this in the name of being a godly women, and modest, dutyfull, observant godly women, a helpmeet to her headship and the likes.

    nothing of this has anything to do with ‘modesty’. Modesty is something very private and what is modest to me might be outrageous to someone else. What looks modest on me, my be very revealing on someone with a different body type.

    Is a skin tight full body latex/rubber suit really that modest, or is it the covering of the hair that is modest? And then will the men that come with these girls/women be happy with the other women on the beach who wear their bikinis or are topless? Or should these girls than too adhere to the new standard of modesty?

    • BM 23.1

      The Orthodox Christian faith seems to be nonexistent in France.

      • Sabine 23.1.1

        yes dear.

      • Poission 23.1.2

        The orthodox christian faith exists in syria,where we have the largest christian city being under attack from us / and saudi barbarian moderates.

        https://twitter.com/hashtag/Mhardeh?src=hash

        • Sabine 23.1.2.1

          Augsburg,, Germany has a very large Syrian Orthodox Community. I know that cause i helped paint the Chapel when they build their new church in the early nineties. So much fun, 12 men from the church board explaining me that we should paint Mary as a pretty pale blond women 🙂 ha, as if ever. I just asked the guys to look at their women and if pretty pale blond came naturally.

          they got a lovely mother mary with jet black hair, brown eyes and a caramel complexion. the ladies loved her. 🙂

    • Ad 23.2

      The most efficient policing of women wearing clothes is other women. Like yourself.

      If you think your cartoon of all Christianity holding sway over all women has multinational power, let me introduce you to the world’s real clothing police:
      the global fashion industry and their media.

      Now there’s some multinational gendered power.

      • weka 23.2.1

        Are you suggesting that the fashion industry and media are controlled by women?

        I’m pretty sure that Sabine was talking about a small subset of Christianity.

      • Sabine 23.2.2

        First if you want to call the people living and working in Gloria vale cartoons for their form of Christianity be my guest.
        Secondly if you want to call the women of the Brethren cartoons for their form of Christianity be my guest.
        Thirdly if you want to call the baptists cartoons for their form of Christianity be my guest.
        but let me make it clear for you to understand, you missed teh point of my post completely.

        what i was trying to point out are the various forms of Christianity as they are preached and lived today, in our western world. namely that some live an extrememly liberal interpretation of the bible, and others are very rigid interpretation. The question is now, what is the correct interpretation? My liberal on or your more strict form.

        you then completly miss the point which i stated earlier that the one thing all these three religions – islam, conservative judaism, orthodox christianity and fundamental evangelism, fundamental mormonism, have in common. Namely that the matter of lust, sexual desires is a problem for women that they are soley responsible for.

        It is up to the women to make sure Men are not tempted, defrauded, driven to lust that can not right fully fullfilled cause not married. Thus for this to prevent the women must cover up.
        Again, personally non of this is my business, however when these issues infringe in my rights to wear what i want on the beach, when these issues infringe in my rights to safety on a beach or any holdiay spot or even just out and about in shorts and t-shirt because i don’t subscribe tot he notion that man are all beasts that can not controll their urges when they see the naked knees of a women, then we have an issue.

        Fact is, that if women would not grow up in a society that is ruled my Religion they might not consider their body sinful that must be covered up hidden away lest some geezer whom the not even know gets a boner and who will then blame the bitch for not putting out or up?

    • i think we need to realise first why women – western christian women – would never be seen in a skirt that is not full lenght, with hair that never saw a pair of sissors, with a blouse that is fully buttoned up with a full arm.

      Of more relevance is how we got rid of that from western societies, the time, the struggles, the violence and misery it took to get rid of it, whether we’re glad we got rid of it and how we feel about it creeping it back in again.

  23. Observer Tokoroa 24

    .Hi Sabine
    .
    “I think we need to realise why women, western christian women are not permitted to date, ”

    . Could you tell me where such Christian women live.

    .
    Thanks

  24. Lloyd 25

    What about rash vests?

  25. Observer Tokoroa 26

    .
    . Gloriavale is but a very tiny infinitesimal group of religious people.

    . What they do or don’t do has no affect on the billions of Christians Sabine.
    .

    regards
    Observer

  26. jcuknz 27

    There is a saying “when in Rome do as the Romans do” which solves the problem for many…. so it is OK to go topless/bottomless? in France but other countries no way except in Nudist Clubs.

  27. Amanda Atkinson 28

    This is whole point, and where both sides of the debate lose the plot … if these women are oppressed and forced to wear these things because of their cavemen husbands, then the law is just, because the intention is to remove this oppression, but, if these women are choosing of their own free will to wear them, then this law is a disgrace. Clearly, there are women in both camps, (which percentage in each we can never, and will never know) so clearly there is no easy answer, and no clear right or wrong, and suggestions as to what is right or wrong, without taking into account those 2 opposite aspects to this, lacks critical thought.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • The Few are on the run, again, it still won’t stop reality catching up…
    We are seeing what has been termed “a greater challenge than the crash of 2008” by a growing number of economists and more rational, sane commentators, because whilst that was a shocking exposure of the levels to which hubris had sunk, right down to the blank cheque given those who ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    6 hours ago
  • Speaker: Locked down in Jersey City
    I am a Kiwi living in Jersey City, New Jersey. Jersey City is the second-largest city in the state and is located directly across the Hudson River from downtown Manhattan. Locals call it New York’s sixth borough. More than 350,000 New Jersey citizens, including myself, commute to New York daily ...
    9 hours ago
  • Expanding houses
    It’s  a beautiful autumn afternoon, we need to get out of the house, and so our bubble sets off on a bike ride around our local neighbourhood, Cambridge Park. The bikes come out of the garage, and, being really certain we have a front door key, close the garage door ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    11 hours ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 13
    . . April 7: Day 13 of living in lock-down… and unlucky for those who are superstitious. A day when there was a ray of sunshine from an otherwise bleak day of worrying signs. Today, as RNZ reported; Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield reported 54 new confirmed and probable cases ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    13 hours ago
  • A UBI in Spain
    So far, universal basic income policies, which see people given a regular income without any conditions, have been trailed only on a small scale. But now, Spain is introducing one nationwide as a response to the pandemic: Spain is to roll out a universal basic income (UBI) “as soon as ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    14 hours ago
  • Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 4: Till et al (2020)
    Paul Connet, head of the anti-fluoride propaganda group, Fluoride Action Network, claims that the IQ of children bottle-fed in fluoridated areas drops by 9 points. But he misrepresented the research. There is no observable effect. For earlier articles in this series see: Part 1: Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only ...
    17 hours ago
  • The Role of Government
    The Queen’s coronavirus broadcast, with its overtones of Winston Churchill and Vera Lynn, prompted me to reflect on the tribulations my parents’ generation suffered during the Second World War – and I imagine that those parallels, given her own wartime experience, were very much in the Queen’s mind as she ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    18 hours ago
  • How to complain about MDC’s unreasonable LGOIMA charging regime
    Back in February, the Marlborough District Council increased the mount it charges for LGOIMA requests. I used the LGOIMA to poke into this, and it seems the case for increased charges is unjustified: the supposed increase in request volumes it rests on is an artefact of the Council suddenly deciding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 12
    . . April 6: Day 12 of living in lock-down… Another day of a near-empty Park N Ride carpark; . . And another day of near-empty Wellington streets; . . . Light traffic on the motorway. No apparent increase in volume. Commercial vehicles sighted; a gravel-hauling truck; McAuley’s Transport; a ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    2 days ago
  • A Lamentable Failure of Imagination.
    Imagination By-Pass: Had the Communications Minister, Kris Faafoi (above) taken a firm stand with Bauer, reminding them of their obligations to both their staff and the wider New Zealand public, then a much more favourable outcome may well have ensued. He should have made it clear to the Bauer board ...
    2 days ago
  • Simon Bridges can’t connect
    We all know that Simon Bridges has, at the best of times, an intermittent relationship with the truth. However you would think that during a pandemic and economic crisis the current opposition leader would pull his head in and start to do the right thing.Obviously leading by example should be ...
    2 days ago
  • Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 3: Riddell et al (2019)
    Connett promotes Riddell et al (2019) as one of the only four studies one needs to read about fluoridation. But he misunderstands and misrepresents the findings of this study. Image credit: Fluoride Action ...
    2 days ago
  • The biggest challenge for a generation ahead – covid-19. Defeat and Recovery
    Last month I wrote my blog on covid-19 pointing out the in our pre Alert Level 4 days that a subject no one had heard here months ago was now dominating the media. An amazing feature of this crisis is how quickly it has swept every other issue aside worldwide. ...
    PunditBy Wyatt Creech
    2 days ago
  • Testing for COVID-19 in NZ to Achieve the Elimination Goal
    Nick Wilson,1 Ayesha Verrall,1,2 Len Cook,3 Alistair Gray,3 Amanda Kvalsvig,1 Michael Baker,1 (1epidemiologists, 2infectious disease physician, 3statisticians) In this blog, we raise ideas for how New Zealand might optimise testing to both identify cases in the community as part of the COVID-19 elimination strategy, and to confirm when the virus ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 days ago
  • Should we all be wearing face masks to prevent Covid-19 spread?
    Maybe you’ve seen the graph that says those countries where everyone wears a mask are the ones that have managed to keep Covid-19 under control? The first thing to say about that claim is that those countries also did lots of other things, too – they acted fast, with intense ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    2 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #14
    Story of the Week... Editorial of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... North Atlantic's capacity to absorb CO2 overestimated, study suggests Research into ocean’s plankton likely to lead to ...
    3 days ago
  • The Americans are trying to kill us all again
    The Treaty on Open Skies is one of the most effective mechanisms for preventing war curently in force. By letting countries make surveillance flights over each others' territory, it eliminates fears that they are secretly preparing for war. So naturally, the US is planning to withdraw from it: The Trump ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 11
    . . April 5: Day eleven of living in lock-down… My one day of rest for the week, and an opportunity to mow my lawns – which I’d been delaying for about three weeks. (On the plus side, the damp micro-climate in my back yard yielded three lovely fresh mushrooms ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Now we know what the rules are
    As the lockdown has gone on, disquiet about what the rules were and the police's enforcement of them has grown. On Friday, Police admitted that they were abusing routine traffic stops to effectively set up illegal checkpoints, and on Saturday Stuff revealed internal police advice saying that they actually needed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 2: Green et al (2019)
    Paul Connett is putting all his eggs in one basket. He says “you only have to read four studies” to find community after fluoridation harmful. Image credit: Fluoride Action Network newsletter. For part 1 of this series see Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 1: Bashash et al (2018). Paul Connett, ...
    3 days ago
  • Hard News: Splore Listening Lounge 2020: the road to a “yes” vote
    As far as anyone can say, New Zeaand still has a general election scheduled for September 19 this year. The election will be accompanied by two referenda, one of which will ask voters:Do you support the proposed Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill?The official campaign period for the cannabis referendum begins ...
    3 days ago
  • Obituary for The New Zealand Listener (1939-2020)
    The vast majority of tributes to the Listener hearken back to its glory days, with little reflection on the magazine as it was at its end.I wrote for it, for half the Listener’s life; I have known personally all the editors except the first (mythical) three. From 1978 to 2014 ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    3 days ago
  • Universal income – a challenge to capitalism or a crutch?
    As the world economy slides rapidly towards deep recession there are growing calls for a Universal Benefit coming from some leftists and rightists. Now Finance Minister Grant Robertson is saying it is on the table.  This article by a French party Workers Struggle provides analysis of various forms of universal ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 1: Bashash et al (2018)
    This is the advice from the very top of the anti-fluoride movement – Paul Connett, director of the Fluoride Action Network (FAN). Don’t worry about reading  up on all the scientific information “You only have ...
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 10
    . . April 4: Day 10 of living in lock-down… I wake up to a fine Saturday morning which normally would be like an early Christmas. But it’s Day 10 of Level 4 Lock Down. What  will my fellow New Zealanders be doing on a day like this – staying ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • Redline reaching out to more writers & readers
    Some time during the night we went over the 850,000 views mark. We might have had our millionth view by the end of this year – certainly by early next year. Most of the people involved in Redline spent years and years producing various small left-wing papers and selling them ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Keir Starmer elected
    Comfortably, in the very first round, with an impressive 56% of the votes.I wonder, did members of the Shadow Cabinet start tweeting their resignations during Starmer's victory speech, or is that only a trick the right pull?It is odd how all the talk of how the next leader "needs to ...
    4 days ago
  • Hard News: Michael Baker and the Big House
    One of the key voices in this extraordinary time in which we live is that of University of Otago epidemiologist Professor Michael Baker. Philip Matthews did an an excellent job this weekend of capturing the way he became the man for this moment in a profile for The Press.But one ...
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand Gives up on Trying to Save Daylight
    New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern addressed the nation today about the decline in daylight New Zealand has been experiencing over the previous few months. She said “As many of you will notice, our attempts to stem the dwindling of the daylight over the last few months have been completely ...
    Can of wormsBy Can of Worms, Opened
    4 days ago
  • A bulletin from Greece
    Redline received this article from the KOE a Marxist party in Greece Our friends in the KOE describe here the mounting crisis in Greece and tensions on the Turkish border. As desperate people flee from their homelands which have been ruined after decades of imperialist wars and interventions the people ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • And God spake all these words, saying
    As the first week of Level Four lockdown unfolded, mounting questions grew as to just what was (and was not) allowed under its “rules”. Partly these were driven by some apparently contradictory messages from different authority figures and explanations carried in the media. Partly they reflected a somewhat sketchy legal basis ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    4 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 9
    . . April 3: Day 9 of living in lock-down… Another late-start to my work day. Everything is temporarily upended as clients are shuffled around so we can minimise our “bubble” by reducing the number of people we help. One of my colleagues has been removed from his clients; his ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • Death to our lockdown enemies!
    We must root out the traitors among us! ...
    Imperator FishBy Scott Yorke
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change: The benefits of electrification
    In order to meet our 2050 carbon target and do our bit to avoid making the Earth uninhabitable, New Zealand needs to decarbonise our economy, replacing fossil fuels with electricity in the energy, industrial and transport sectors. The good news is that it will mean cheaper power for all of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 8 (sanitised version)
    For those folk who find my other Lock-Down Diary versions too “negative” or otherwise unpalatable… Here’s a photo of a pretty flower, .   . Better? Tomorrow’s Sanitised Version: a cute animal video. . . . =fs= ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 8
    . . April 2: Day eight of living in lock-down… Today, my work day starts late. Our rosters and clients have been dramatically changed, lessening (theoretically) the number of people in our work “bubble”.  If just one of us catches covid19 the impact could be considerable as Grey Base Hospital ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • A note on apartments and bubbles
    As Aotearoa enters week two of lockdown, it’s clear we’re all still working out what our “bubbles” look like and how to stay in them to stop the spread of Covid-19. New to the government’s Covid-19 website is some good guidance for people living in apartment blocks. Recent decades have ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    6 days ago
  • Getting in futures shape 
    “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” Lenin Don’t we all know that feeling now.

    Prospect Magazine alerted me to this particularly apt quote. It is a much more evocative quote than Hemingway’s “gradually then suddenly” which is also doing ...

    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    6 days ago
  • Maybe axing Clark would be unfair. But what about any of this is fair?
    Yesterday was the day the consequences of the lockdown suddenly got very real for many. Firms have been closing and laying people off since the outset of the quarantine but this has mostly been happening out of the public eye. The mass closure of a number of iconic New Zealand ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    6 days ago
  • Might a ‘Coasean’ social contract mitigate overall societal harm from COVID-19?
    Brian Williamson1, Prof Nick Wilson2 (1Economic consultant, UK; 2University of Otago Wellington) In this blog, we outline how a win-win social contract could be forged to address the major dimensions of response to the COVID-19 pandemic when using a mitigation strategy: the particular need to protect older people from high ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    6 days ago
  • Returning To “Normalcy”.
    Resuming Normal Service: The Republican Party's nominee for in 1920, Warren Harding, promised the American people: “not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration”. If she wishes to remain our prime minister, then Jacinda Ardern will offer New Zealanders the same.HOW EDUCATED AMERICA snickered when the ...
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand’s Government Must Save New Zealand’s Media.
    No Free Society Without A Free And Functioning News Media: If we are to surrender our civil rights to the broader cause of defeating Covid-19, then foreign corporations must, likewise, surrender their right to inflict immense economic and cultural harm on New Zealanders simply because it improves their bottom line.I’M ...
    6 days ago
  • Corona fevers and the madness of models
    by Daphna Whitmore A third of the world is under lockdown and a clear assessment of this measure to curb the spread of COVID-19 is urgently needed.  With any high-stakes decisions it has to be asked what are we dealing with here? Are the measures warranted? Will they achieve their ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • Lockdown day 8
    I haven’t done a huge amount in the last few days. I’m reading The Poppy War and I’ve sort of poked at a couple of games – I started SOMA but I’m a wimp and I quit while in the first room after the brain scan. I might try it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    6 days ago
  • Backstage and Theatre
    The swan politicians may be gliding on the water, occasionally snapping at one another. Meanwhile, as the Covid19 crisis illustrates, the officials are desperately paddling below providing the real locomotion. One of the most fatuous recent grandstanding comments (of about a week ago), adding to the public’s anxieties, was ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    6 days ago
  • Legal Beagle: Waiver, the singular Crown and the conduct of Crown legal business
    Much has been written about the importance of discretion in an emergency situation, and the concerns raised by the potential for it to be exercised arbitrarily. Given the quality of the discussion, there seemed little point in adding to it at any length. In particular, I point to the evidence ...
    6 days ago
  • Highlights from Bauer Media’s science-related reporting
    Today has felt surreal. I was all set to touch base online with my science communication students when a colleague shared the news that Bauer Media would be shutting down its publications immediately. The first link I saw implied it was Woman’s Weekly affected, and even that shocked me. But ...
    SciBlogsBy Sarah-Jane O'Connor
    6 days ago
  • Outsiders.
    Bogeymen, Real And Imagined: Is the number of psychopathic and sociopathic individuals in any given society truly as vanishingly small as we like to tell ourselves? Isn’t it more likely that the mass-shooters and serial-killers filling the headlines represent only the tip of a much, much larger iceberg of frightfulness? ...
    7 days ago
  • We have a right to know the rules we are expected to obey
    Outgoing Police Commissioner Mike Bush appeared before the Epidemic Response Committee today, who asked him for the rules police are using to enforce the lockdown. He refused:Police Commissioner Mike Bush has admitted the advice given to Kiwis about what they're able to do during the lockdown hasn't been clear enough. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 7 (sanitised version)
    For those folk who find my other Lock-Down Diary versions too “negative” or otherwise unpalatable… Here’s a photo of my cat, . . Better? Tomorrow’s Sanitised Version: a pretty flower. . . . =fs= ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    7 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 7
    . . April 1: Day seven of living in lock-down… This morning I had a brief chat with one of my neighbours, “D” (social distance between us, a good three or four metres). I learned he had resigned from his previous job and had been hired by another company – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    7 days ago
  • RIP The Listener, New Zealand’s pioneering voice
    Funnily enough, my thought as I start this post is whether it will be well written enough. Or should that be well enough written? Because so much of what I know about good writing came from my two stints at The Listener, which this morning was shut down due to ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    7 days ago
  • OK, Britney: stop sniping at National for doing its job
    With normal democratic procedures in abeyance, there were two ways to go. First, it was open for the government to dissolve itself and invite the National Party to join a ministry of national salvation. That would have lessened the democratic deficit of the times by having a team of rivals without ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    7 days ago
  • Helpful tips for parents during lockdown
    Dr Kirsty Ross Children and young people can respond differently in times of distress. This also varies by age and developmental stage, with younger children having more magical and imaginative thinking, and older children having more awareness and knowledge of the issues our communities are facing (which brings up ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #13, 2020
    1 week ago
  • Hungary is now a dictatorship
    Hungary has been a virtual dictatorship for a decade now, as Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has gradually eroded its democracy. But now, its official, with the passage of an indefinite emergency law allowing rule by decree:Hungary’s parliament has passed a new set of coronavirus measures that includes jail terms for ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A new Ministry of Works
    While the economy is on pause under lockdown, the government is beginning to plan how to cope with the post-lockdown, post-tourism, post-export education world we will eventually find ourselves in. They're planning a lot of infrastructure spending as economic stimulus, and have asked for proposals which can start the moment ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Capture: Well spaced out
    It's my distraction,  setting up tiny scenes to photograph.  I've got stuck on the Babushka dolls for now.  Something about their bubble shape.  Something about their never changing, smiling features, suggesting persistent equanimity.  Can we get through everything that is being thrown at us and keep at least a tiny ...
    1 week ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 6
    . . March 31: Day six of living in lock-down… This time I managed to sleep a little longer and the alarm woke me at the pre-set time: 6.55am. Then remembered I was working a later shift and could’ve slept in. Oh well, there are things to do at home. ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • March ’20 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: Diamond Harbour School Blogs I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is unexpectedly missing or ...
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Poll Pot and the partisans
    Yesterday's Horizon poll showing support for a "Yes" vote in this year's cannabis referendum sliding into the majority for the first time in a year looked like good news for reformers – and it probably is. But the result warrants some scrutiny.The poll is the fifth in a series commissioned ...
    1 week ago
  • Why those bubbles are so important
    For almost a week now, every one of us who isn’t an essential worker has been confined to their bubble. We are allowed to go shopping for groceries, to visit the doctor, and to get a bit of exercise if we stay local. The reason we are doing this is ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • A Government System That Works
    The Covid-19 saga will no doubt produce many twists and turns for us before it is finally brought to an end. But one thing it has shown us – and what comfort it should bring us – is that our country’s government is in good hands. I am not thinking ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Smashing down the barriers: Where are we at with COVID vaccines?
    In the absence of a vaccine or a cure for a deadly disease, staying home in your bubble is what you do, the concept is not new.  To the best of my knowledge last time we did this in NZ was for polio, in the years before a vaccine came ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    1 week ago
  • National Network on Cuba (USA): “Cuban medical solidarity is a pillar of its society and is founde...
    The following statement was released on March 28 by the National Network on Cuba, a coalition of 40 groups, based in the United States. In recent weeks, Cuba has deployed hundreds of medical providers to over a dozen countries in Europe, Asia, as well as to their neighbors in Latin ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Alarming decrease in calves increases fears for endangered Hector’s dolphin
    This has been a terrible summer for Hector’s dolphins. The first indication was very low numbers of dolphin sightings during late spring and early summer. The Otago University Marine Mammal Research Team has carried out routine dolphin surveys at Banks Peninsula for more than 30 years. In all that time, ...
    SciBlogsBy Otago Marine Science
    1 week ago
  • Time for Grant Robertson to reveal package #2?
    On March 17, Finance Minister Grant Robertson was quick out of the blocks with an economic rescue package to help businesses through the inevitable recession resulting from the coronavirus pandemic. Robertson had pulled together a scheme in short order that so far seems to have saved many jobs. In his ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    1 week ago
  • Saving lives
    The purpose of the lockdown is to save lives, by reducing the spread of covid-19. We won't know if its really working for another week, but given the devastation that will result if it doesn't - 14,000 dead is the optimistic scenario - its definitely worth trying. But pausing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 5
    . . March 30: Day five of living in lock-down… Woke up still in darkness. Alarm hadn’t gone off. Turn to radio clock; it’s a few minutes after 6am… I lie there in the dark, waiting to drift off to sleep… but it ain’t happening. Clock ticks over to 6.55 ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Les Gray: the man who told the truth
    The story of Les Gray, the public sector psychologist who told the truth about his use of cannabis and set off a storm, has a special place in the lore of cannabis reform in New Zealand.When Paul Shannon interviewed Gray for the 'Dope and Hope' issue of Planet magazine in ...
    1 week ago
  • Why now? Historical specificity and the perfect storm that has created trans identity politics
    by Phil Duncan For Marxists, a key concern about social trends is their context – not just their causes, but why they happen when they do.  Events and phenomena have causes, but they also are time or period-specific. While much of the left have capitulated recently to postmodernism, most notably ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Time for a living wage for supermarket workers
    Since the lockdown began, we've all suddenly been reminded who the actually essential workers in our society are: not the people at the top who pay themselves the big bucks and rort the perks, but the people at the bottom they screw over and squeeze: cleaners, warehouse staff, truck drivers ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: MUSIC: Lockdown Grooves
    Kia ora! As I've watched nearly all my remaining work vanish over the past couple of days, it has occured to me that one good way to keep me away from arguing with fools on Twitter all the time (in the knowledge that all we're really doing is processing our ...
    1 week ago
  • A place of greater safety?
    Aotearoa New Zealand has committed to trying to extirpate the virus that causes COVID-19 from its shores. To do that, as a society we’ve moved to “Level 4”. That means adapting to unprecedented restrictions on our personal freedoms, particularly to our rights to move freely and associate with friends and ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    1 week ago
  • The police and public trust
    When the Prime Minister declared a state of emergency last week, she handed the police powers to enforce it. And almost immediately, we started hearing about heavy-handed, arbitrary "enforcement" by police who (at best) cared more about order than law, or (more likely) had no idea what the rules were ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • Communities step up to help New Zealanders stay connected and fed during lockdown
    Communities stepping up to help New Zealanders stay at home to break the transmission of COVID-19 and save lives have received Government support, said Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. “Delivering groceries for the elderly who can’t shop online, providing data packs for low income families to keep them connected, and being ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • 120 COVID-19 testing centres now operating
    Across New Zealand 120 sites are taking samples to be tested for COVID-19.   68 community based assessment centres (CBACs) have been established to take samples from people with COVID-19 symptoms. Alongside this, 52 other centres including designated general practices, swabbing centres, and mobile clinics are now testing people for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Covid19: Government moving quickly to roll out learning from home
    The Ministry of Education is working with partners to develop a package of options so that students can learn at home when Term 2 begins on 15 April, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. Supports are also being prepared for households with children under five, to help parents and whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • Making learning from home accessible to Māori learners and whānau
    Māori Television to begin educational te reo programmes Ki te Ao Mārama – a new online learning space Thousands of hard copy learning packs ready for distribution Helpdesk and advice service for kōhanga, kura and wharekura Television, the internet and hard copy learning packs are some of the ways whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • New Zealand to provide assistance to Vanuatu following Tropical Cyclone Harold
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced an initial package of support to help the people and the Government of Vanuatu respond to the impact of Tropical Cyclone Harold. “Our Pacific neighbours have been hit by a Category 5 Cyclone at the same time as dealing with the economic impacts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Planning for the future of tourism
    Tourism New Zealand to lead work reimagining the way tourism operates in post-COVID-19 world. Ministers to review International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy investment plan. The Government, industry and business are working together to develop a plan for how tourism will operate in a post-COVID-19 world, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • NZ horticulture sector feeding Kiwis and the world during COVID-19
    More New Zealanders are taking up the chance to work in horticulture as the sector keeps New Zealanders fed and in jobs during the COVID-19 Alert Level 4 lockdown. “Our horticulture sector has long been one of New Zealand’s export star performers, contributing around $6 billion a year to our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Work to repurpose PGF funds begins
    The Provincial Development Unit is working through applications and projects to see where Provincial Growth Fund money can be repurposed for initiatives deemed more critical to fighting the economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. “We need to be throwing everything we have at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • A million workers supported by Govt wage subsidy
    The Government’s wage subsidy to protect jobs and keep workers and businesses connected during the lockdown has now supported over a million New Zealanders, with $6.6 billion already paid out. “We’re supporting businesses to pay wages, and stay connected with their workers so that we are all in a better ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government helps Pacific communities fight COVID
    The Government is stepping up efforts to help protect New Zealand’s Pacific communities in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet has agreed that $17 million will be allocated to support a COVID-19 Pacific Response Package, which will: Support Pacific health and disability services facing increased demand; Ramp up public health messaging ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Dr David Clark
    “Yesterday evening the Health Minister advised me of his trip to a beach during the lockdown and offered his resignation,” Jacinda Ardern said.  “Under normal conditions I would sack the Minister of Health. What he did was wrong, and there are no excuses.  “But right now, my priority is our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Statement from David Clark
    Last night as part of my preparation for the Epidemic Response Committee, I provided the Prime Minister with a complete picture of my activity outside my home during Alert Level 4.  That included the fact that on the first weekend of the Alert Level 4 lockdown I drove my family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • COVID-19 mental health support begins
    A range of support is being rolled out across New Zealand to help people look after their mental health during COVID-19 Health Minister David Clark said this morning. “COVID-19 has brought a lot of uncertainty into our lives and many of us will be feeling some level of distress or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealanders in Peru to be assisted by Government charter flight
    The New Zealand Government has made arrangements to charter a flight for New Zealanders stranded in Peru to depart the country, following agreement with the Chilean government to allow the necessary transit through Chile, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters announced today. “Like many travellers around the world at the moment, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • COVID-19 Hospital Preparation Well Advanced
    Hospital preparations for COVID-19 are well advanced says Health Minister David Clark. “Hospitals across New Zealand are repurposing buildings and training staff to get ready for COVID-19 patients. This gives me confidence that we are well prepared for any potential increase in COVID-19 patients needing hospital level care,” said David ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Further measures to support businesses
    The Government will be introducing legislation to make changes to the Companies Act to help companies facing insolvency due to COVID-19 to remain viable and keep New Zealanders in jobs. The temporary changes include: Giving directors of companies facing significant liquidity problems because of COVID-19 a ‘safe harbour’ from insolvency ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt’s COVID plan, economic strength recognised
    The Government’s plan to cushion the blow of COVID-19 by supporting incomes, jobs and businesses, and position the economy to recover has been backed by another international report. International credit rating agency Moody’s today reaffirmed its highest Aaa credit rating on New Zealand, saying the economy is expected to remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Funding certainty for sports through COVID-19
    National sports organisations have been given certainty of funding to ensure they can remain viable through the COVID-19 pandemic, Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson announced today. “The global spread of COVID-19 has had a significant impact on sport and recreation in New Zealand, including the cancellation or postponement of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Butchers now allowed to process pork
    Changes have been made to allow butchers to process pork, only for supply to supermarkets or other processors or retailers that are open, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has announced. “We carefully weighed the risk of allowing butchers to open their shops for retail customers, but the risk of spreading COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Essential workers leave scheme established
    Essential workers who take leave from work to comply with public health guidance are being supported with a leave scheme to ensure they will continue to receive income, say the Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Iain Lees-Galloway and Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni. A number of essential businesses ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt WhatsApp helps share COVID-19 information
    A Government WhatsApp channel has been launched to help make information more easily accessible and shareable in the fight against COVID-19. Govt.NZ, which is free to use on any mobile device, will carry information and news for the public, businesses, healthcare providers, not for profits and local government. It can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Managed departure plan for stranded foreign nationals enables safe, orderly exit
    The Government has announced a plan to enable the safe, orderly exit of tens of thousands of stranded foreign nationals from New Zealand during the current COVID-19 Alert Level 4 restrictions, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters has said. “When we moved into lockdown a week ago, the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government delivers COVID-19 support to GPs and Pharmacies
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says the Government is delivering on its commitment to support general practice doctors and nurses, and pharmacies on the front-line of our fight against COVID-19. "For us to overcome COVID-19, we need community health services such as general practice and community pharmacy to step up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
    Justice Susan Thomas has been appointed Chief High Court Judge, Attorney-General David Parker announced today.  She replaces Justice Geoffrey Venning who has resigned from the position.   David Parker paid tribute to Justice Venning, who he said had stewarded the High Court very capably over the last five years.   “On behalf ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
    Work is underway looking at measures to speed up consents for development and infrastructure projects during the recovery from COVID 19, to provide jobs and stimulate our economy.  Environment Minister David Parker said the COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis that will have a wide ranging and lasting impact ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supermarkets able to open on Easter Sunday
    The Government is ensuring supermarkets can open on Easter Sunday so we can buy groceries, but stay closed on Good Friday allowing workers to take a break. This provides a balanced approach and ensures we avoid large queues that two days closure may cause. “Supermarkets will be able to open ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago