Daily review 25/03/2021

35 comments on “Daily review 25/03/2021 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. bwaghorn 1

   25 March 2021 at 6:24 pm

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124650948/waikato-mongrel-mob-faces-mps-in-tense-standoff-at-parliament-over-prospective-firearms-law

   Since when is the ownership of firearms a customary rite. ?

   Strip gangs members of the right to own firearms .
   • weka 1.1

     25 March 2021 at 6:31 pm

     Hutchinson said the bill was “racist in its intent”, and “impinges on the customary Māori rights” to gather food and meet as iwi, hapu or whānau – as such gatherings take place at homes of legitimate firearms owners.

     that seems reasonable to me. Looks racist (given the numbers of Māori who hunt for kai and how get overly targeted by the justice system and have worse outcomes)
     • bwaghorn 1.1.1

       25 March 2021 at 6:51 pm

       Tell me how a rifle is a customary maori weapon?
       • arkie 1.1.1.1

         25 March 2021 at 6:59 pm

         The hunting is the customary right, not the weapon used.
         • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1

           25 March 2021 at 7:03 pm

           Thanks arkie it is good to have finer points explained to those with failing eyesight.
       • David 1.1.1.2

         25 March 2021 at 7:27 pm

         Yes, somehow mongrel mob members with guns suddenly become a race issue.

         I think on this site you often have to take a step back and ask yourself which party proffered the idea. That will then largely dictate the response from many however outrageous the proposition.
       • weka 1.1.1.3

         25 March 2021 at 10:10 pm

         Māori began acquiring European muskets in the early 19th century from Sydney-based flax and timber merchants. Because they had never had projectile weapons, they initially sought guns for hunting.

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars

         How is that not customary?
         • bwaghorn 1.1.1.3.1

           26 March 2021 at 6:11 am

           So south island highland farmer have a customary right to farm ,they've been doing it that long.?

           Japan has a customary right to hunt whales in ships with harpoons as that's just an evolution from how they did it earlier.?

           For me customary means using traditional methods.
           • Rapunzel 1.1.1.3.1.1

             26 March 2021 at 6:22 am

             So you'd apply the same traditions to medicine/health advances, the medium by which you've posted your opinion, telecommunications, flight even motor vehicles?
             • bwaghorn …

               26 March 2021 at 6:51 am

               Huh?

               Weka is claiming fire arms are a customary tool for Maori. I don't.

               Customary to me is using traditional methods to hunt traditional foods.

               Nether guns or deer and pigs are customary to Maori.
               • Rapunzel …

                 26 March 2021 at 7:36 am

                 I see "customary" as common use things move on – for everyone to use whatever tools become available. Some things fall out of use, like burning witches etc and progress gives access across the board to all people to things no one once had. Otherwise "weapons" would still consist of sticks and rocks for everyone
         • alwyn 1.1.1.3.2

           26 March 2021 at 3:02 pm

           What were they hunting at that date, apart from other human beings? I can't think of any large animals that would have been in New Zealand in large enough numbers to hunt at that time.

           Were there any significant numbers of wild goats or pigs here in 1800? Deer were not until the 1850's and there wouldn't have been any wild cattle. You certainly wouldn't use a musket to hunt for rats would you?
           • Incognito 1.1.1.3.2.1

             26 March 2021 at 10:52 pm

             They’d shoot birds, pigs and goats. Have you not heard of Captain James Cook?

             Feral pigs in the northern South Island, New Zealand: I. Origin, distribution, and density

             https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03036758.1991.10418181

             Have you heard of Google?

             Here’s how you do it:

             Type in these words and enjoy: when were pigs introduced to new Zealand
             • alwyn …

               27 March 2021 at 1:04 pm

               You did note I mentioned Goats and Pigs. The question was were there many wild ones at that date. I suspect not . Your link certainly doesn't indicate that there were many outside the South Island sounds. That wasn't where the muskets were sold was it?

               Have you ever seen what a mess a shot from a Musket makes? You couldn't shoot a bird with one and expect to find anything that could be cooked. There weren't any moas around by that stage so there was nothing big enough to shoot.
               • Incognito …

                 27 March 2021 at 3:47 pm

                 You tell me where muskets were sold and traded between Māori and whalers, settlers, and merchants, for example. Can you rule out the South Island?

                 Apparently, the early muskets were not always reliable and Māori were not used to and skilled in using them for warfare. I assume that this would not have stopped them using these for hunting ducks, fowls, and other birds and possibly also feral goats and pigs that would have undoubtedly been around although I don’t know it they were “many”.

                 Apparently, game hunting was big in NZ by the mid-1800s and several Laws and Law changes were passed around that time.

                 Te Ara is your friend if you can use Google 😉

                 No, I’m afraid I’m not old enough to have seen the mess made by a musket shot. Are you and have you or do you rely on the special effects in Hollywood movies?
                 • alwyn …

                   27 March 2021 at 5:44 pm

                   The use of muskets by Maori appears to have started in the early part of the nineteenth century in North Auckland. The primary driver seems to have been Hongi Hika who obtained large numbers of muskets between 1825 and 1821. They were certainly bought for use in warfare.

                   Use of muskets then spread throughout New Zealand.

                   https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/new-zealands-19th-century-wars/the-musket-wars

                   By the end of the 1930's the Musket Wars were pretty much over. They were simply to destructive. Game Hunting, as described in your comment as big in the mid-1800s was irrelevant to the original obtaining of muskets by the Maori tribes. They had had muskets much earlier and used them in warfare. There were, of course no laws on hunting before 1840 were there?

                   Have I seen the effects of a musket shot? No, but I believe it is similar to a shot gun slug. I have seen the effect on a deer of a 12 GA shot gun slug. It was horrendous. And no, it wasn't me doing the shooting. It was an acquaintance in the US who took me out hunting. Well he hunted, I just tagged along.
     • McFlock 1.1.2

       25 March 2021 at 10:33 pm

       The stuff link says "found with a firearm", Hutchinson, seems to be saying that this includes visiting a licensed firearms owner at the place firearms are securely stored.

       There might or might not be a gap between those two statements, but unlicensed people can currently use firearms when supervised by the licensed owners etc. So a community hunt with that sort of mix would be off the table. And of course gang members are included even if they don't have a record of violent crime (but I'm genuinely not sure how many that would apply to, might depend on the gang).

       I can see the logic of the gun-user ban, but it's not quite so clear cut as some folk seem to be suggesting.
       • weka 1.1.2.1

         25 March 2021 at 10:43 pm

         I was thinking about someone who ends up with the ban who lives with someone who provides meat for the whānau via hunting and keeps hunting rifles legally in the house. Either they have to get rid of the firearms, or the person isn't allowed to live there.

         Would be good to see some detailed reporting that explains. I started reading the legislation, but agree it's not immediately clear.

         The Commissioner of Police will have the power to make an FPO in respect of these offenders and any decision made to make an FPO will be reviewable by the District Court. About 600 gang members will initially be eligible for an FPO, however, not all of those individuals will have an FPO issued straight away. Police will decide how to prioritise the most serious offenders within that group with the aim to prevent firearms being used in criminal activities.

         also,

         69D Prohibition on person subject to firearms prohibition order residing at premises where firearms, parts, or ammunition are present

         (1)

         A person who is subject to a firearms prohibition order commits an offence if a firearm, part, or ammunition is kept or found on premises at which the person is residing.

         https://legislation.govt.nz/bill/member/2020/0217/latest/whole.html#LMS310897
2. Anker 2

   25 March 2021 at 6:57 pm

   • How many Maori hunt food. Are there other guns they can use? Do the mongrel mob use guns for criminal activity? How many Maori using these guns for hunting are charged c/p to Pakeha?

   all genuine questions. Given the new gun laws came in in response to a white supremicist

   from Oz murdering Muslims I find it hard to see it’s racist. But the bill may effect Maori more if they use guns for hunting more often.

   deal with the issue of police/courts being racist rather than changing gun laws
   • I Feel Love 2.1

     25 March 2021 at 7:44 pm

     "How many māori hunt food?" I think you'd be quite surprised how many do, it's not unusual at all.
     • arkie 2.1.1

       25 March 2021 at 7:45 pm

       One could say it's a custom.
   • solkta 2.2

     25 March 2021 at 8:01 pm

     I think you need to read the link. This is not about the laws that Labour put through.
   • Jilly Bee 2.3

     25 March 2021 at 8:28 pm

     Apparently Bishop Brian Tamaki does.
3. greywarshark 3

   25 March 2021 at 7:08 pm

   The finer points of Westpac's banking concerns well explained I think by Gyles Beckford- anyway enough to get a handle on it. If it does go up for sale they will be wanting more than $1 and costs for it!

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/439162/analysis-why-would-westpac-want-to-sell-its-new-zealand-business

   But what price for a fully established, slightly scratched, one-owner New Zealand bank? A ball park price of $10bn to $15bn has been mooted – it's a big ball park.
   • alwyn 3.1

     25 March 2021 at 8:07 pm

     I'm not sure that it would be a good buy in the long term.

     A lot of their business could be taken away by the type of Financial Technology which is the core of Ant. That's the Chinese offshoot of Alibaba. Payments could be done by using your phone. That is a great deal cheaper than the eftpos we have. They may also wipe out the Credit Card business which is currently very profitable.

     There will still be things for which the existing Trading Bank structure is best but not on anything like the scale they are at the moment.

     Remember how in the Computer industry IBM and mainframes used to be king? Well the Trading Bank structures we have now may also go the way of the dinosaurs.

     I'm not saying it will be Ant, which really isn't onside with the Chinese Government and which I don't want to see in New Zealand. I just mean the sort of technology they spearhead.
     • RedBaronCV 3.1.1

       25 March 2021 at 11:32 pm

       There still would have to be "a store of value" = your bank account somewhere behind these apps. Basically they are just like an eftpos using a public network (phones) that is likely to be a lot less secure than the eftpos net. Plus if these proliferate then which ones do the banks accept an inwards or an outwards transfer from even in bulk. Would you want your salary paid into the company underlying the apps? If they offered bank accounts/held deposits then presumably they would also need a banking licence.

       We would need to be wary of fragmenting our nationwide transactions systems because of the increased costs and risks of non compatible systems. The Reserve bank IMHO also needs to pressure the banks to harden in country transaction systems to reduce fraud which now seems to be on an industrial scale overseas and is borne by consumers either individually or collectively.
4. Anker 4

   25 March 2021 at 8:05 pm

   Ok have just read what this arms offence bill is about. Police putting a ban on people who have committed domestic violence and/or a serious offence in the last ten years is good.

   It is unfair saying this for gangs. If their members have committed offences then they will fall under this act, without having to specify gangs. I am not sure I would consider it racist though. Some gangs are Pakeha and it would have to say Maori can be put under this ban for it to be racist. Just my opinion.

   Whether they use guns to hunt for food is irrelevant in my opinion. If you have committed a serious offence in the last ten years then yeah, you lose your right to own a gun, whoever you are.
   • weka 4.1

     25 March 2021 at 10:22 pm

     I'd have less of a problem with it if it had been developed by Māori within their own communities. It looks hamfisted. Putting more Māori in prison because we don't want to address systemic issues around violence isn't going to reduce violence overall.
5. greywarshark 5

   25 March 2021 at 8:13 pm

   KiwiRail and the regions step up for a commuter train Hamilton to Papakura, Auckland. Great news. And once travellers get to Papkura presumably it's a hub for elsewhere.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/439137/auckland-to-hamilton-train-ready-to-leave-the-station

   "The key now is making sure people are encouraged to jump on board and use it. Working people will see it as a mobile office, where they can get to and from Auckland safely and comfortably while they work. And it's a brilliant option for families who will be able to relax and really enjoy the ride."
6. greywarshark 6

   25 March 2021 at 8:36 pm

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/439165/insurers-of-ship-stranded-in-suez-canal-face-millions-in-claims

   ,,.About 30 percent of global container shipping volumes pass through the canal each day, carrying everything from fuel to consumer goods. The main alternative route for ships travelling between Asia and Europe, around the African cape, takes a week longer to navigate.

   The ship's owner, Japanese firm Shoei Kisen KK, and its insurers could face claims from the Suez Canal Authority for loss of revenue and from other ships whose passage has been disrupted, insurers and brokers said…

   "If you have a constant build-up of ships, there are massive supply chain issues," said Marcus Baker, global head, marine and cargo at insurance broker Marsh…
   At least 30 ships were blocked to the north of the Ever Given, and three to the south, local sources said. Several dozen ships could also be seen grouped around the northern and southern entrances to the canal.
   Analytics firm Kpler said more than 20 oil tankers carrying crude and refined products were affected by the disruptions.

   The New Zealand Council of Cargo Owners has said some New Zealand cargo will be caught up…
   Auckland University Professor of supply chain management David Robb told Midday Report the situation had already led to a 6 percent increase in oil prices and that could go higher if the ship continued to block the canal…

   Groundings are the most common cause of shipping incidents in the canal, with 25 in the past 10 years, according to AGCS [Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty].

   This is proof that big companies will act irresponsibly and push limits in trying to get higher profit through 'efficiency' – such as bigger vessels taking more containers – despite the associated risks of causing accidents and loss to others. There needs to be firm controls world-wide, not just balancing the cost of calculated insurance to consider. Smaller vessels, more owners, would be better for all involved, to maintain reliable supplies even at a higher cost level, for business and consumers.
   • KSaysHi 6.1

     25 March 2021 at 8:59 pm

     This situation could easily become significantly worse if those containers start coming loose and falling into the canal and blocking passage for the forseeable future. It might even change the world and force countries to do their own manufacturing.
   • alwyn 6.2

     25 March 2021 at 9:29 pm

     The ship would have had a Suez Canal Authority employed Pilot on board. The Captain is still in command but they can always claim they relied on the pilot's supposed greater knowledge.

     The owner of the ship, or its insurer, is certainly going to blame him so the Authority might find itself tryin to make a claim against its own employee.

     Big ships are likely to be much safer than small ones of course. There will be less of them at sea and therefore less chance of a collision for example. Smaller ships are likely to have more accidents that the large ones.
7. KSaysHi 7

   25 March 2021 at 9:19 pm

   Athletes pressured to take vaccine. Once we had informed consent, now there is a ton of peer pressure.
   • alwyn 7.1

     25 March 2021 at 9:33 pm

     It isn't just athletes. The whole population of the country will be under extreme pressure to take a dose of the vaccine.

     At least the athletes are generally younger and fitter and are therefore less likely to have an adverse reaction.
8. weka 8

   25 March 2021 at 10:23 pm

   https://twitter.com/legalfeminist/status/1374850603919233028

   lol, look forward to seeing the answer to this.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS