An MMP government

Written By: - Date published: 7:20 am, September 22nd, 2017 - 101 comments
Categories: election 2017, labour, leadership, MMP - Tags: , , , ,

On current polling the next government could be Labour + Green + NZF. That would annoy a lot of Nats if they have more votes than Labour alone, but that’s how MMP works. English lied about this in the last debate, but apparently has since walked it back. Audrey Young sums up:

Biggest party might not lead new Government

New Zealand heads to the polls tomorrow in one of the most uncertain election outcomes in memory, after one of the most gripping campaigns.

One thing is certain: either National or Labour could lead the next Government, no matter which party has the most seats after the votes are counted.

A suggestion by Prime Minister Bill English this week that the largest party gets the first chance to form a Government under New Zealand’s constitutional arrangements is not correct, and he has walked back from that.

The largest party under MMP has led the Government but any bloc of parties making up more than 50 per cent of the Parliament can actually form the Government. …

The Nats tried to take out NZF and have probably failed. Bad mistake, though who knows what Peters will actually do if he holds the balance. Let’s hope that the polls are underestimating the scope of the mood for change, and that Labour + Green (+ Maori?) can do it without him. Get out there and work for it people…

101 comments on “An MMP government ”

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  1. Incognito 1
    22 September 2017 at 7:28 am

    There are no “kingmakers” in this election and Winston Peters is a PCP (Probable Coalition Partner, not Angel Dust). This is MMP and we have a representative democracy. This means that a majority of one or two seats should not be seen as a mandate to exclude the other half of the House and thus the other half of the electorate/population. It means that you go out of your way to reach as much (political) consensus as possible. It means that you first and foremost try a non-partisan approach. Am I asking too much?

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      22 September 2017 at 10:20 am

      That’d be nice but that’s not actually how things work in the real world – as National have showed us time and time again as they’ve gone against the wishes of the majority of people.

      It’s a problem that comes from having a government that’s not accountable for their actions.

      • Matt 1.1.1
        22 September 2017 at 10:52 am

        What National have forgotten over the last 9 years is that at all times they have held a very small majority and that around 50% of the electorate don’t agree with their policies. They still work as though they are under FPP.

        I guess they only way to change things is to show them how things can work. I expect that Labour,Green and NZ First will have that opportunity following the election.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1
          22 September 2017 at 10:58 am

          I guess they only way to change things is to show them how things can work.

          Nope because when they next get into power they will be act exactly the same way.

          Thing is, even a Labour led government will likely be passing legislation that the majority of people are against. The TPPA springs to mind. If they can’t get agreement from NZ1st and Greens then they’ll just get it from National. it won’t change the lack of support in the community – they’ll just over-ride the opposition.

      • cleangreen 1.1.2
        22 September 2017 at 8:56 pm

        Yes draco Like the cup of teas sagas??

        National coerce the system to get power so Incogntito’s suggestion;
        ” It means that you first and foremost try a non-partisan approach.” Am I asking too much?

        Well it seems that no party is following this policy you state should be followed.

        Anyway I have more respect for Winstons knowledge of what is the ‘legal’ proceedure of how to form a governmet so I will await the outcome.

  2. Brokenback 2
    22 September 2017 at 7:29 am

    The banner headline on the Audery Young article is
    “Could a minority party lead new Government ”

    this will be today’s dog whistle.

    As for yours?
    Maori Party = Kupapa

  3. Bearded Git 3
    22 September 2017 at 7:32 am

    “The Nats tried to take out NZF and have probably failed. Bad mistake……..”

    Winston also still hasn’t forgotten that National took NZF out over the Owen Glenn donations in 2008.

    This is why Jacinda will be PM.

    Lab 39 Gre 8 NZF 6 is 65-66 seats, a safe majority. Add Flavell to this.

    • Enough is Enough 3.1
      22 September 2017 at 1:31 pm

      Winston will go with the side that gives him more. It is that simple.

      Predicting he will go with the left because of a scandal in 2008 which was of his own making is a bit hopeful unfortunately.

    • cleangreen 3.2
      22 September 2017 at 9:02 pm

      100000% Beared git, great insight I fully agree.

      Winston is so deeply experienced far far more then compared to the other bees hovering around the parliamentary honey pot today eh?

  4. cleangreen 4
    22 September 2017 at 7:41 am

    “On current polling the next government could be Labour + Green + NZF.”

    Please let it happen!!!! as we need both youth and experience combined with all oposition parties to begin the restoration of this country from the clutches of a dying carcass of the National Party.

    • David C 4.1
      22 September 2017 at 8:14 am

      cleangreen.
      Please please please let Labour go into a threeway coalition with Greens and Winston.
      The resulting chaos would be outstanding.

      I think its far more likely that Labour will just ignore the Greens and go with Winston.
      As long as Lab + NZF > Nat they are safe as Greens will never vote with National.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1
        22 September 2017 at 11:01 am

        Please please please let Labour go into a threeway coalition with Greens and Winston.
        The resulting chaos would be outstanding.

        There’ll be less chaos from that combination than we’ve seen from National/UF/ACT/MP.

        • Colville 4.1.1.1
          22 September 2017 at 11:57 am

          Nat govt has been steady functional and boring I want some excitement!

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.1
            22 September 2017 at 12:59 pm

            Undermining society by underfunding essential services is ‘functional’?

            As for steady?
            How many of their MPs suddenly retired? Where’s Barclay?

            • Colville 4.1.1.1.1.1
              22 September 2017 at 3:34 pm

              Barclay was a boy in a man’s job good riddance to him.
              But if that is all you can give me for excitement over 9 years of Nat management then bring on the lab/gre/Winston hydra ☺️

              • Draco T Bastard …
                22 September 2017 at 11:37 pm

                It’s not. There were a few more that ‘retired’ from politics quite suddenly.

                There’s the ongoing Barclay affair and how Blinglish and a few others tried to cover it up – I do wonder how that investigation is going and how the police are going to sweep it under the rug this time.
                There’s Collins and the Orivida scandal which may have grown some more teeth.
                Aaron Gilmore
                IIRC there’s another couple of instances of fraud and sexism to go as well.

                If there’s anything that the country should have learned over the last few years is that no National MP can be trusted.

      • Robert Guyton 4.1.2
        22 September 2017 at 11:11 am

        “Please please please let Labour go into a threeway coalition with Greens and Winston.”

        Big ups to David C for his positive day-before wishes!

  5. Carolyn_nth 5
    22 September 2017 at 7:43 am

    Planning to vote today (in Epsom) – will hold my nose and go for gold – to change the government: one tick against the NACT rorts, lies, inequalities, poverty and destruction of democracy; one tick for the left and positive change.

    • garibaldi 5.1
      22 September 2017 at 7:48 am

      Carolyn, the way to get rid of Rimmer (Seymour) is to give your electorate vote to Goldsmith.

    • patricia bremner 5.2
      22 September 2017 at 9:15 am

      You go girl. Out out damned lot!!

    • Carolyn_nth 5.3
      22 September 2017 at 1:30 pm

      I think I voted – now I’m not sure. If they want you to tick within the circles, they need to give us thinner pens. I did 2 tick movements, and ended up with 2 circles filled with orange – I figured it must count – but now I’m not sure.

      • Carolyn_nth 5.3.1
        22 September 2017 at 3:03 pm

        Hah! I submitted a query to the Electoral Commission via the form on their website.

        Got a pretty prompt reply:

        Provided your intention is clear when you mark your ballot paper, it will be counted as a valid vote.

        Thanks for your feedback about the pens, I will pass your concerns on to our Voting Services team.
        Ngā mihi,

      • Graeme 5.3.2
        22 September 2017 at 4:07 pm

        I voted last weekend and had the same experience. The marker looked new, but the tip showed evidence of some deliberate use. I ended up with a small white dot at the top of both circles.

        • Carolyn_nth 5.3.2.1
          22 September 2017 at 4:12 pm

          Interesting. You’d think, with all the “Two ticks” promos for voting, they’d make damn sure they provided the equipment to do it easily, and with certainty!

  6. RC 6
    22 September 2017 at 8:01 am

    National are so stupid they continue to attack their potential coalition partner right up to election day. It would not surprise me at all to see NZF going with Labour and the Greens because i’m not the only NZF party member wanting some utu.

    • tracey 6.1
      22 September 2017 at 8:04 am

      Winston is old school. Weened on politics at Muldoons teet. He plays it as a game and says what it takes to win. He will forgive National if they make some concessions to him. Remember this is the party that has recriminialise prostitution as a policy…

      The winebox was a long time ago …

      • Brokenback 6.1.1
        22 September 2017 at 8:13 am

        As opposed to the maori party …..?

      • BM 6.1.2
        22 September 2017 at 8:17 am

        Winston is old school. Weened on politics at Muldoons teet. He plays it as a game and says what it takes to win

        This, one of the big reasons you always see him sticking it to National is not that he hates them but sees National voting people as being more likely to swap to NZ First if he sows enough doubt in their heads.

        Once the “game” is over it’s beers and laughs around the table.

        • RC 6.1.2.1
          22 September 2017 at 8:21 am

          You are daft if you believe that there is real hatred inside the National party towards Winston and NZF.

          • weka 6.1.2.1.1
            22 September 2017 at 4:35 pm

            THat’s not what he said. He’s saying that Peters is playing a power game. Of course he will work with National if he needs to, and vice versa.

  7. Brokenback 7
    22 September 2017 at 8:10 am

    Willie Jackson ,on the daily blog

    “Take the latest Colmar Brunton Poll – added together, Labour + Greens + NZ First will be the new Government, but is that the story the right-wing media are telling you? They are saying that Jacinda’s ‘fairy dust’ has failed her, that the momentum has stopped and that anyone wanting real change this election should just go home, head bent with their tail between their legs for daring to hope.

    I call that out and denounce it! ”

    The “brand” differentiation exercise is over , it’s time for compromise and pragmatic agreement on the way forward.

    It will be a rough ride , the msm and our owners will fight tooth and nail to delay obstruct the repeal of the garbage legislation this sycophantic mob of thieves have bestowed upon us .
    It will require all that have petitioned, organised, berated through forums & non-msm against the damage done in the past 9 years to continue to their efforts and use the mechanisms of democracy to try and re-build a fair society.

    At least we can hope to see a Parliament devoid of Urgency , Select committee process working as intended and a Speaker who respects the traditions of their position.

  8. Redlion Seratus 8
    22 September 2017 at 8:20 am

    Looking forward to the Troika being in Government…the bulk of people see through Nationals deceit and lies …this is why a three way coalition is what is required.

  9. Eszett 9
    22 September 2017 at 8:41 am

    The largest party under MMP has led the Government but any bloc of parties making up more than 50 per cent of the Parliament can actually form the Government. …

    This not a “feature” of MMP, but just they way a parliament in a representative democracy works. It could happen under any electoral system, even FFP.

    I believe 1923 elections in the UK was such a case
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1923

    A more proportional system encourages to have more parties, which the makes situations like this more likely, but it is not restricted to them.

    • Brendan 9.1
      22 September 2017 at 4:10 pm

      “I believe 1923 elections in the UK was such a case”

      The MacDonald Ministry didn’t exactly end well…

  10. Glenn 10
    22 September 2017 at 9:46 am

    Winston will be the next UK High Commissioner before the end of next term and all power to him if he does get it. Despite what we may think of him he is a legend. (And I didn’t vote for him).

    • popexplosion 10.1
      22 September 2017 at 12:44 pm

      Nats will want a support partner, Winstons already is old, by term end. So they will fob him off to London, same same, Labour. Renewal of the old vote party.

  11. peterh 11
    22 September 2017 at 9:47 am

    Maybe not Winston, Latest Internal polling the gap is narrowing, also over last four days a large increase in the
    youth turning up to be inrolled

  12. WILD KATIPO 12
    22 September 2017 at 9:47 am

    This from an article on Stuff today,….

    Get out and vote!
    When Aunty Helen tells you to get and and vote, you better do what she says!

    So there , … consider yourselves warned !!!

  13. ianmac 13
    22 September 2017 at 9:53 am

    My family is voting tomorrow. Lots of red ticks.
    The Marlborough Express has an unscientific on line poll going today.

    I voted for our mighty Janette Walker Labour candidate three times.

    The counter went up by one each time because I voted on Firefox, then Chrome, and then Safari. Dishonest I know but just proving that online polls are beatable.

    • Glenn 13.1
      22 September 2017 at 10:15 am

      I’m surprised there are still Provincial Newspapers still surviving the internet. The Taranaki Daily News up still goes on despite having reduced staff, a rented office, mainly syndicated news and being printed in Porirua and I amazes me why folks buy it. If I subscribed to a print newspaper in a moment of insanity it would have to be either The Dominion or The Herald.

      Yeah, I don’t believe any online polls. Even doubtful of the ones on telly.

      Go Jacinda.

      • ianmac 13.1.1
        22 September 2017 at 12:46 pm

        Glenn. Fairfax owns our Express. Their experiment is that on Monday Wed Fri we get the Express with strong accent on Marlborough news. On Tuesday Thur we get the Christchurch Press.
        Strangely enough it is quite good after initial misgivings.

    • DoublePlusGood 13.2
      22 September 2017 at 10:23 am

      Ah, the old ‘vote early, vote often’ strategy!

  14. swordfish 14
    22 September 2017 at 10:14 am

    Changing Public & MSM opinion

    One or two Polls over the past decade have suggested strong public sentiment in favour of the idea that the party receiving the most votes should form the subsequent Government (eg 79% agreeing in a 2008 Colmar Brunton).

    However Jacinda-mania (and Labour’s subsequent revival) may have somewhat mitigated this view – the usual MSM suspects haven’t been pursuing this line in the way they did during previous campaigns & a recent Herald ZB Kantar TNS poll found more voters feeling NZF should make any coalition decisions on the basis of policy wins (38%) rather than simply going with the largest party (35%) – albeit with a hefty 27% still Unsure

  15. boggis the cat 15
    22 September 2017 at 10:37 am

    The polling results seem to be swinging around a great deal. Is this the ‘undecideds’ making their minds up, or are some voters really unable to choose between National and Labour?

    • Bill 15.1
      22 September 2017 at 10:43 am

      I’m picking a large proportion of the supposed 13% “undecideds” from whatever that last poll was, are tossing a coin between NZ Labour and Green. Obviously, the sensible and the progressive or left leaning among them will tick Green 😉

      • The Fairy Godmother 15.1.1
        22 September 2017 at 11:48 am

        Also in my canvassing have found a big portion of people tossing up between the two big parties as they don’t want little parties.

        • boggis the cat 15.1.1.1
          22 September 2017 at 5:33 pm

          There are a lot of people with that mindset, that only the largest parties ‘count’.

          I suspect that these are the people who don’t understand policy at all, and just want to choose the ‘winning team’.

    • alwyn 15.2
      22 September 2017 at 11:55 am

      They have had a chance to have a good look at Ardern’s ability to do the job and they aren’t impressed.
      Did you happen to see the graphic that went with the TV3 news broadcast about the poll last night? After Ardern became leader the Labour votes rose a lot. After the campaign started they fell nearly as fast as people saw that she really wasn’t up to the job.
      Damn it, why couldn’t Labour get their act sorted out? Nine wasted years. It would be good to get a new Government but the alternative to National are totally useless.

      • Doogs 15.2.1
        22 September 2017 at 1:48 pm

        As are some of the commenters on this site. FFS Alwyn who are you talking to? Yourself?

        • alwyn 15.2.1.1
          22 September 2017 at 2:17 pm

          Well you are obviously one of my readers.
          Why do you bother if it upsets you?

          • Robert Guyton 15.2.1.1.1
            22 September 2017 at 2:28 pm

            Why does anyone bother?
            That’s the question.

            • alwyn 15.2.1.1.1.1
              22 September 2017 at 6:27 pm

              In your case Robert I can tell you.
              I am sure it is because you are a seeker after enlightenment.
              You are trying to reach, in the Indian Religious sense, the state of Nirvana
              “All Indian religions assert it to be a state of perfect quietude, freedom, highest happiness”
              Reading my homilies will help you on the path. Travel well, my son.

              • In Vino …
                22 September 2017 at 8:06 pm

                I personally find that your homilies lead to the slough of despond.

                • alwyn …
                  22 September 2017 at 8:23 pm

                  Oh dear.
                  Slough of despond.
                  “The Slough of Despond is a fictional, deep bog in John Bunyan’s allegory The Pilgrim’s Progress, into which the protagonist Christian sinks under the weight of his sins and his sense of guilt for them”

                  Are you really such a vile person with such a great weight of sins? Actually you are, when I consider the things you say here.
                  Repent and all will be forgiven. You can overcome your terrible guilt if you repent, or so I have been told. Change to worshipping the ideas that I expound. You can be saved you know.

                  I really didn’t think anyone read Bunyan any more. I remember trying it when I was a teenager. God knows why, and He isn’t talking.

                  • In Vino …
                    22 September 2017 at 8:37 pm

                    Indeed – a pity you have lost God, whom I see as a metaphor for Principles.
                    The protagonist Christian is the modern beneficiary, or poor couple working long hours on barbarically low pay rates of which you and your ilk approve.
                    You I see as a Pharisee who does not comprehend his own guilt in supporting a system of exploitation and misery imposed upon others.
                    You burble with foolish over-confidence.

                    • alwyn …
                      22 September 2017 at 8:44 pm

                      Yes, dear.
                      You sound as if you have already been partaking in order to try and numb the pain when your beloved lot fall short again in an election.
                      “In vino veritas is a Latin phrase that means “in wine, truth”, suggesting a person under the influence of alcohol is more likely to speak their hidden thoughts and desires. The phrase is sometimes continued as, “In vino veritas, in aqua sanitas”, i.e., “In wine there is truth, in water there is health.”
                      What have you been drinking? Stick to water. It is much better or your liver.

                    • In Vino …
                      22 September 2017 at 10:12 pm

                      Ahh, tut tut. ‘for your liver’, not ‘or your liver’. As you preach correctness, try to pick your bumbling way around the keyboard more carefully. You love to pretend erudition, but fail to convince.

      • boggis the cat 15.2.2
        22 September 2017 at 5:41 pm

        They have had a chance to have a good look at Ardern’s ability to do the job and they aren’t impressed.

        That would be one thing that I would definitely rule out.

        It isn’t as though Bill English has been covering himself in glory throughout the campaign — if anything, he has destroyed the ‘honest Bill’ talking point. Ardern could be criticised for lack of specificity, but as any sociologist can tell you people don’t recall facts as well as they recall emotional response: a positive message devoid of facts will win over positive facts with a neutral message.

        (This does have a distinct downside, in that you get ‘robot’ Clinton losing in likeability terms to the Orange Clown.)

  16. Sparky 16
    22 September 2017 at 11:39 am

    Relieved to see NZF in the mix. A voice of common sense and reason.

  17. Wisdumb 17
    22 September 2017 at 11:54 am

    The results of the American election, the Brexit referendum and the British snap election, show a disconnect between voting results and polling demographics that should favour Labour in our election. However, if the worst comes to the worst and Labour is unable to form a government, I still see room for hope.

    For such a result, National would presumably have ACT with it, it would have pooh-poohed the Greens, leaving it with NZ First and the Maori Party as partners. Such a mixture would surely be unstable. There are many conflicting policies between the four of them but in particular, NZ first is strong on economic nationalism, which is the antithesis of the vile TPP that National is besotted with. The campaign has also aroused the social conscience of the Maori Party. Hence, even if the Nats win this election and form a government, a successful vote of no confidence against it within three years is not unlikely.

    If it does, by this time Labour, Jacinda, and their policies would be well consolidated, and many potential partners thoroughly antagonistic to National would be available – why else would a vote of no confidence have succeeded – and Labour would win in a canter.

  18. alwyn 18
    22 September 2017 at 12:02 pm

    I think Winston will go with whichever party gives him the biggest bag of baubles.
    However he has a high price. With National he can insist that he be the number two in a two party coalition. ACT and the Maori party can’t stop that.
    With Labour though he will be requiring that there are no Green Ministers. He isn’t going to share his prizes. It will be just like 2005. What are the Greens, assuming they are actually in Parliament, going to say? They will almost certainly have less seats than New Zealand First and are, in my opinion, equally likely to end up with a percentage that is below the 5% as they are to be above it.
    Under 5% and National will be able to form a Government with their current partners.

  19. Glenn 19
    22 September 2017 at 12:44 pm

    I think the Green vote will be higher than the polls show.

    • alwyn 19.1
      22 September 2017 at 12:50 pm

      It is possible but it would be a first.
      They have dropped well below the final poll in every election since 1999.
      On the other hand they usually go up between election night and the final result although not back to the poll numbers.
      This time could be different though. I know several people who have been vociferously Green before previous elections but were very unhappy with the Party preferring to support Turei but to dump on Graham. They might be still going to vote Green but they aren’t talking about it any more.
      People talking to pollsters might be the same.

    • simonm 19.2
      22 September 2017 at 2:09 pm

      The Greens have always picked up a few percentage points from overseas voters casting special votes in previous elections. There’s no reason to think this year will be any different.

      • alwyn 19.2.1
        22 September 2017 at 2:37 pm

        Yes, that is what my third sentence was saying, or at least meaning to say, although I hadn’t limited it to the overseas voters.
        “On the other hand they usually go up between election night and the final result although not back to the poll numbers.”

        On the other hand I would suggest “a few percentage points” is gilding the lily a bit. 50 basis points or about half of a percentage point might be a bit closer.
        It was 0.23% in 2005, 0.29% in 2008, 0.44% in 2011 and 0.68% in 2014.

        • simonm 19.2.1.1
          22 September 2017 at 5:06 pm

          Sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant. I didn’t take ‘Mind Reading’ as a subject at school.

          • alwyn 19.2.1.1.1
            22 September 2017 at 6:20 pm

            Really?
            I thought you, like me, were both Old Boys of Harry Potter’s school Hogwarts.
            Compulsory subject there.

            • simonm 19.2.1.1.1.1
              22 September 2017 at 6:30 pm

              I can’t stand Harry Potter personally. Poorly written shite if you ask me.

              https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2007/jul/17/harrypottersbigconisthep

              • alwyn …
                22 September 2017 at 6:39 pm

                I’ll take your word for it. I’ve neither read any of the books nor seen any of the films.
                Nicholas Lezard certainly isn’t a fan, is he?

                • simonm …
                  22 September 2017 at 8:24 pm

                  He is indeed. The films are tolerable IMHO.

                  • alwyn …
                    22 September 2017 at 8:38 pm

                    I shall keep an eye out for when one is next on free TV. I can always record it, watch a bit of it and then delete it if I cannot be bothered looking at the rest.
                    When Lezard compared the writing to Jeffrey Archer I really lost interest in the books. I read about 50 pages of Archer once. God it was awful.

                    • simonm …
                      22 September 2017 at 9:37 pm

                      With you 100% on Archer. Forget about perjury, the bugger should have been jailed for life for crimes against the English language.

                    • Frida []
                      23 September 2017 at 6:37 am

                      Haha @simonm and @alwyn – agree with you both there. Rowling and Archer can’t write to save themselves. Another ‘bestseller’ in that camp is Dan Brown. Ouch. Meanwhile, superb English writers like Ian McEwan and Zadie Smith to name just a couple continue to produce beautiful pieces of writing.

                      [lprent: Thank you for identifying that election day comment loophole. Now fixed. ]

    • Colville 19.3
      22 September 2017 at 3:42 pm

      Glenn
      It’s never happened before but it’s possible
      We have seen a couple of percent of soft left voters float away from Labour over the last couple of weeks if that trend continues then greens might do 8% or so
      Usually greens % drops on the day tho.

      • boggis the cat 19.3.1
        22 September 2017 at 5:46 pm

        I would guess that they will get to eight or nine percent, but not crack ten.

        Unfortunately they have bled some support back to Labour under Ardern, and managed to make several leadership bungles leading in to the campaign.

        My feeling is that the results between National and Labour will be tight. At least this should be an interesting result.

  20. Brendan 20
    22 September 2017 at 3:27 pm

    I think whatever happens, NZ First is going to suck the neoliberal air out of National and Act. Sure, it won’t be real progressivism, but National will be damaged goods after 12 months. If they do stitch together a government from National, NZ First, ACT, and Māori, it will be a shambles that has no coherent strategy. Worst case scenario I see happening tomorrow is 3 years of a very effective Labour-Green opposition while National desperately tries to negotiate its way through a coalition of chaos.

  21. Tanz 21
    22 September 2017 at 4:24 pm

    nope, Bill English basically said that under our constitution, the kingmaker would have to go with the party that has the most votes. How is this not true? In a democracy, that is how it works. Winston himself said he would go with the party with the most votes, has he not? I English did not lie, he was stating facts of democracy.

    [lprent: No that is not true. It is just billshit. Bill English was simply lying again. As are you.
    There is no legislation that says that. There is no standing protocol or convention that says that. And there is absolutely no precedent that says that.

    Since I’m not that in favour of people trying to promulgate false facts on this site – banned for 4 weeks as a discouragement to do this kind of crap again. Unless of course you can come up with a constitutional reference that states that coalitions must be formed with the biggest party under MMP.

    😈 But since even Billshit Bill has retracted on that bit of crap it could be a long search. ]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1
      22 September 2017 at 4:28 pm

      😆

      Bill English was lying, and has since retracted his statement. Winston says he talks to the party with the most votes. Please try and inform yourself so that I don’t have to constantly correct your fake news.

      • weka 21.1.1
        22 September 2017 at 4:37 pm

        methinks there’s going to be some interesting conversations on Sunday. Unless we get really lucky, which I’m still open to happening.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1.1.1
          22 September 2017 at 4:45 pm

          We’ll know more when the electoral commission releases the updated early voting and enrolment data at 6pm.

          • McFlock 21.1.1.1.1
            22 September 2017 at 4:50 pm

            180,000 more votes cast yesterday. Insane.

          • weka 21.1.1.1.2
            22 September 2017 at 5:08 pm

            6pm? That’s not the counted votes though right?

            • lprent 21.1.1.1.2.1
              22 September 2017 at 5:26 pm

              Almost right.

              My understanding was that they start counting the advance votes at midday tomorrow and release them at 7pm at the close of voting.

              • weka …
                22 September 2017 at 5:48 pm

                Yes, that’s what I thought too. But OAB is talking about early voting and enrolment stats I think? As in which booths had what turnout? Enrolment demographics?

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                22 September 2017 at 6:34 pm

                Sorry, going off this Newsroom piece…

                Electoral Commission spokesman Richard Thornton said by email that the enrolment numbers currently on its website were enrolments that had been processed so far and are not the final figure.

                “There will be late enrolments that haven’t been processed yet, including enrolment forms coming in from advance voting places, and I can’t provide a figure for how many of those there are,” he said.

                “We will update the figures on the website at 6pm tonight…

                …looking, can’t find anything yet. Will keep looking…

                • weka …
                  22 September 2017 at 6:47 pm

                  Oh right, I thought you were talking about tomorrow. So the EC is going to update its website tonight on enrolment and advanced voting stats?

                  Enrolments are open until midnight (online), so I guess we won’t get a final figure until tomorrow.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    22 September 2017 at 8:02 pm

                    26k more people have voted than at the same time in 2014. That might mean that fewer will vote tomorrow and we’ll get a similar turnout.

                    If it’s a bigger turnout, I struggle to imagine it’s because people are more convinced by Bill English than they were by Dr. Sir Key.

        • cleangreen 21.1.1.2
          22 September 2017 at 9:35 pm

          Yes our Weka,

          There will be many lies and coecion to distort the truth comming from the PM/Joyce stable to try and screw any deal which only benefitss them under false circumstances, so it is great to have Winston’s long experience to draw upon of how this joselling for control is going to play out going forward as we saw in the UK election, dont you agree?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.2
      22 September 2017 at 4:47 pm

      *correction, for “talks to”, read “talks first to”.

  22. cleangreen 22
    22 September 2017 at 9:24 pm

    Driving home tonight I heard a report on Radio live Ali Mau “Drive with Ali Mau at around 5.30pm radio that Ali was interviewing a political expert Massey University my memory serves me, who said that a forward report was known already about the results from the voting pattern of the early votes todate!!!!

    We heard are (apparently) now known said the presenter.

    The results we heard on the car radio was ;

    Voters for the two main parties National & Labour are as follows;

    National 33%
    labour 45%

    I hope this early reprt is correct, as when we voted today in Gisborne the booth was over loaded with people all the way out the door and down the road, and my wife said she did not see many ‘national’ voters.

    Please dont ask me how she knows that, but I have faith is a womens intuition as my mum had it and she was right every time on every issue then presented to us.

  23. cleangreen 23
    22 September 2017 at 9:39 pm

    OAB said “We’ll know more when the electoral commission releases the updated early voting and enrolment data at 6pm.”
    This last post above may shed some light?

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  • Tobacco First

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  • Trump’s Adopted Son.

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  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 19

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  • Joint statement from the Prime Ministers of Canada, Australia and New Zealand

    Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue.  We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
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    18 hours ago
  • AG reminds institutions of legal obligations

    Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
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    21 hours ago
  • More young people learning about digital safety

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views.  “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
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    21 hours ago
  • Speech to the Conference for General Practice 2024

    Tēnā tātou katoa,  Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
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    23 hours ago
  • Employers and payroll providers ready for tax changes

    New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts.  “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
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    1 day ago
  • Experimental vineyard futureproofs wine industry

    An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
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    1 day ago
  • Funding confirmed for regions affected by North Island Weather Events

    The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
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    1 day ago
  • Indonesian Foreign Minister to visit

    Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.   “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
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  • Strengthening partnership with Ngāti Maniapoto

    He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
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    2 days ago
  • Transport Minister thanks outgoing CAA Chair

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
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    2 days ago
  • Test for Customary Marine Title being restored

    The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says.  “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
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  • Opposition united in bad faith over ECE sector review

    Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet.  “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
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  • Kiwis having their say on first regulatory review

    After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks.  “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
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  • Government upgrading Lower North Island commuter rail

    The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
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    2 days ago
  • Government moves to ensure flood protection for Wairoa

    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
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    3 days ago
  • PM speech to Parliament – Royal Commission of Inquiry’s Report into Abuse in Care

    Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care.  At the heart of this report are the ...
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    3 days ago
  • Government acknowledges torture at Lake Alice

    For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
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    3 days ago
  • Government acknowledges courageous abuse survivors

    The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
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    3 days ago
  • Half a million people use tax calculator

    With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis.  “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
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    3 days ago
  • Paid Parental Leave improvements pass first reading

    Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
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    3 days ago
  • Rebuilding the economy through better regulation

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    3 days ago
  • ‘Open banking’ and ‘open electricity’ on the way

    New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
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    3 days ago
  • Charity lotteries to be permitted to operate online

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
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    4 days ago
  • Accelerating Northland Expressway

    The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
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    4 days ago
  • Sir Don to travel to Viet Nam as special envoy

    Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.    “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
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    4 days ago
  • Grant Illingworth KC appointed as transitional Commissioner to Royal Commission

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024.  “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
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    4 days ago
  • NZ to advance relationships with ASEAN partners

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane.    “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says.   “This will be our third visit to ...
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    4 days ago
  • Backing mental health services on the West Coast

    Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
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    4 days ago
  • NZ support for sustainable Pacific fisheries

    New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
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    4 days ago
  • Students’ needs at centre of new charter school adjustments

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
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    4 days ago
  • Commissioner replaces Health NZ Board

    In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today.  “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
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    5 days ago
  • Minister to speak at Australian Space Forum

    Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum.  While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation.  “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
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    5 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend climate action meeting in China

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan.  “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
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    5 days ago
  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
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    7 days ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

    The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
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    1 week ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

    New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
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    1 week ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

    President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests.    Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone.    Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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