Denazifying Ukraine

Written By: - Date published: 8:51 pm, March 6th, 2022 - 128 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

One of Vladimir Putin’s objectives in the Russian incursion into Ukraine was to “denazify Ukraine.” With the breakdown in the agreement to allow a humanitarian corridor out of Mariupol, this task will be much harder and the terrorist toll much higher. Once Russia has succeeded however, the world will be a better place for it.

Mariupol is a stronghold for the Azov battalion, a Nazi force integrated recently into the Ukrainian army. Its strength is estimated at 5000 men. Some consider that this number, small relative to the total Ukrainian armed forces, means that their influence is correspondingly small.

But this is to misunderstand the reasoning behind the tactics used by the Azov battalion and other Nazi-type forces in the Ukrainian army. They know that they do not need large numbers to cause massive mayhem and death.

Watch Yevhen Karas of the neo-Nazi C14 battalion outline the methodology in a public address:

Max Blumenthal at the Grayzone has more background on the neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine, as well as the weakness of Zelensky in his attempts to control them.

Tass states today:

MOSCOW, March 5. /TASS/. Nationalist forces did not allow any civilians leave Mariupol and Volnovakha during the period of ceasefire on Saturday, so the Russian armed forces resumed their offensive, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major Gen. Igor Konashenkov said on Saturday.

“Not a single civilian was able to exit Mariupol and Volnovakha via the declared security corridors. Nationalist groups use the population of those cities as a human shield. Nationalist battalions used the ceasefire period for regrouping their forces and reinforcing their positions. Due to the Ukrainian side’s reluctance to somehow influence the nationalists or extend the ceasefire, the offensive resumed from 18:00 Moscow time,” Konashenkov said.

This is exactly what the Nazi groups want, more innocent suffering as it is more propaganda for their cause. Western media will likely blame the change on Russia, which makes no sense. Its aim has been to keep the country’s infrastructure and its civilian population intact and unharmed.

These groups have had a wider impact. The criminal shooter at the mosque massacres in Christchurch in 2019 wore a ne0-Nazi symbol used in the Azov battalion badge on his jacket. Again an example of terrorist thinking about how maximum damage can be caused in this case by a single person.

And we should not forget this UN resolution from 16 December 2021:

By a recorded vote of 130 in favour to 2 against (Ukraine, United States), with 49 abstentions, the Assembly then adopted draft resolution I, ‘Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance’.”

Former diplomat Craig Murray gives his view that the “The Ukrainian vote against the U.N. resolution against Nazism was motivated by sympathy for the ideology of historic, genocidal active Nazis. It is as simple as that.” I should note that Craig Murray is of the view that the Russian invasion into Ukraine is a breach of international law, and he is right in that.

In my opinion if it was the right thing to do to fight against German Nazism in 1939 it can be argued that there is some justification for Russia to fight against Ukrainian Nazism that has been killing their compatriots at their borders.

We also need to remember that it is Russia that has suffered grievously from Nazi ideology – Slavs were untermenschen as much as Jews. In my opinion, Western condemnation at Russia’s territorial incursion should be balanced with equal condemnation of Nazi barbarity.

As for us here – watch out for sanctions blow-back.

*Badge image is of Donbass  group

 

128 comments on “Denazifying Ukraine ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Blazer 1
    6 March 2022 at 8:56 pm

    Will be watching this thread with interest.

    Thought these sentiments were banned on this forum as …unacceptable 'propaganda'!

    [lprent: You appear to be a ignorant dimwit who is too lazy to actually research anything – like what this site is about. Read the about.

    What’s your political ‘angle’?
    We come from a variety of backgrounds and our political views don’t always match up but it’d be fair to say that all of us share a commitment to the values and principles that underpin the broad labour movement and we hope that perspective will come through strongly as you read the blog.

    What was asked for were credible links, an argument, and opinions. What was received were assertions of fact not backed by links backing those assertions nor argument nor acknowledgement that what was parroted was just speculation.

    This is your warning about impuning this site without apparently having read the about or policy. I’ll moderate you until you confirm that you have read the documents about the site, and now understand them. ]

  2. pat 2
    6 March 2022 at 9:05 pm

    Theres no accounting for taste

  3. Psycho Milt 3
    6 March 2022 at 9:16 pm

    If Putin were so keen to wage war on Nazi groups, he'd start with his home town:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Imperial_Movement

  4. Psycho Milt 4
    6 March 2022 at 9:21 pm

    For a broader view of fascist groups operating in Russia, this is pretty comprehensive:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Far-right_politics_in_Russia

  5. Byd0nz 5
    6 March 2022 at 9:37 pm

    Good on you Mike Smith. At last a bit of balance to the debate, a brave post considering the one eyed five eyes supporters on this site. Also apt comment from Blazer seeing as some moderators here are big on banning some with opposing views.

    [You wouldn’t be able to give a few examples of moderators banning commenters here just for their opposing views, would you? You’re playing with fire when making such accusations and I wouldn’t want you to get burnt – Incognito]

  6. SPC 6
    6 March 2022 at 9:47 pm

    I suppose it's a matter of whether you believe accounts at TASS over reports in other media.

    There is no ceasefire in Mariupol and there is no ceasefire all along the route. Our civilians are ready to escape but they cannot escape under shelling."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60629851

  7. Grafton Gully 7
    6 March 2022 at 9:47 pm

    "We also need to remember that it is Russia that has suffered grievously from Nazi ideology – Slavs were untermenschen as much as Jews."

    We also "need to remember" the Molotov- Ribbentrop Pact. Untermenschen and Herrenrasse collaborating to share a dismembered Poland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

  8. joe90 8
    6 March 2022 at 10:02 pm

    “Not a single civilian was able to exit Mariupol and Volnovakha via the declared security corridors.

    And the last time Putin’s thugs allowed a corridor they butchered those who took them at their word.

    It was the biggest loss of life in Ukraine's war against Russian-backed separatists.

    Hundreds of soldiers died as the Ukrainian army and volunteers retreated in a column from the eastern town of Ilovaisk on 29 August 2014.

    Ukrainian veterans are adamant the Russian army was there, even though Moscow has always denied claims that regular Russian forces took part in the battle.

    President Vladimir Putin has said merely that any Russians involved were volunteers following "a call of the heart".

    […]

    "We realised the enemy had reinforcements," he says.

    "At the time we could not imagine the scale of this entrapment. Our troops had surrounded Ilovaisk but all our troops were surrounded by the enemy".

    Negotiations were going on and a humanitarian corridor was being prepared for them to leave, they were told, and yet their withdrawal was repeatedly postponed.

    How soldiers became trapped in 'bloody corridor'

    Then, on the morning of 29 August 2014, came the command to gather and leave Ilovaisk in two columns.

    "Nobody knew the routes," said Roman Zinenko.

    They began to move, they passed the first ring of encirclement smoothly but within a few kilometres their column came under fire.

    "It was just a shooting range and we were the targets," he said.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49426724

  9. aj 9
    6 March 2022 at 10:02 pm

    It’s good when we do it — Kosovo, Iraq — but evil when they do it. The precedent for recognizing breakaway republics in Europe was set by the USA when it detached Kosovo from then Yugoslavia.

    Will there ever be reflection on the unwisdom of successive US administrations pushing the outer boundaries of NATO farther to the East in the post-Cold War period?

    A lot of the commentary thus far is from theorists and utopists who haven't paid much attention to the lessons of history. While I support whole-heartedly the ideal that all nations have respect for each other and respect international law ((Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, has the right to set its own security policy) the hard reality is that Russia, like any great power, cannot tolerate a military outpost of its enemies on its border.

    This sort of event did not happen in a vacuum. US foreign policy and national security elites, in the post Cold War period, bungled this through hubris, and by getting high on their own End-Of-History horse.

    "Fuck it!" Russia's Final Break With the West

    https://niccolo.substack.com/p/fuck-it-russias-final-break-with?s=r

    • SPC 9.1
      6 March 2022 at 10:21 pm

      Na what the West did in Iraq (and Libya attacking government ground forces with NATO planes there to enforce a no fly zone) was wrong.

      Quibble – Kosovo did not come out of Yugoslavia but one of its parts – Serbia. And taking South Ossetia out of Georgia – but not allowing it and North Ossetia to merge and form an Ossetian republic within Russia and aspire nation state independence is a cynical.

      Yeah, Ukraine within NATO was always the red-line. NATO and Russia should have cut a deal where they agreed to Ukraine neutrality and offered to mediate the issue of its borders with Russia.

    • Andrew Miller 9.2
      7 March 2022 at 7:55 am

      It’s takes like yours that are making actual Eastern Europeans so frustrated. I’m sure they’ll thank you for suggesting they’re ignoring their own history.

      https://newrepublic.com/article/165603/carlson-russia-ukraine-imperialism-nato

      Also, anyone who think there’s moral equivalence between this and what happened in Kosovo doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously on any subject.

      Putin can’t stand an ‘enemy’ on his border? Asked yourself why an organisation that represents the governments of Western Europe and Canada are an ‘enemy’? If Russia is no threat to the nations of Eastern Europe and the Baltics, what threat is NATO to Russia?

  10. SPC 10
    6 March 2022 at 10:09 pm

    By a recorded vote of 130 in favour to 2 against (Ukraine, United States), with 49 abstentions, the Assembly then adopted draft resolution I, “Combating glorification of Nazism, neo‑Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance”.

    Further, the Assembly urged States to eliminate all forms of racial discrimination by all appropriate means, including through legislation, urging them to address new and emerging threats posed by the rise in terrorist attacks incited by racism, xenophobia and other forms of intolerance, or in the name of religion or belief. It would call on States to ensure that education systems develop the necessary content to provide accurate accounts of history, as well as promote tolerance and other international human rights principles. It likewise would condemn without reservation any denial of or attempt to deny the Holocaust, as well as any manifestation of religious intolerance, incitement, harassment or violence against persons or communities on the basis of ethnic origin or religious belief.

    Nations abstaining included UK, Canada, Oz, NZ and most of Europe.

    https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3894841?ln=en

  11. McFlock 11
    6 March 2022 at 10:46 pm

    Putin's stated objective of "denazifying Ukraine" is about as believable as Bush's stated objective of freeing the Iraqi people.

    Whether the true objective is empire building, legacy building, or some sort of ethnocentric objective of unifying slavic people, seems things haven't gone smoothly. Good.

  12. felix 12
    7 March 2022 at 1:28 am

    Gee I hope there are no nazis in Taiwan.

  13. Hongi Ika 13
    7 March 2022 at 6:27 am

    Poots is requesting that the Ukrainian Military and their people stop fighting to end the hostilities, well you know what the easiest way to end this is Poots needs to fuck off back to Russia problem solved.

  14. RedLogix 14
    7 March 2022 at 7:34 am

    Given that Mike Smith has a special privilege here as one of the Trustees of the site I am going to self-censor and sanction this site until he is removed.

    He has chosen his side.

    • Ad 14.1
      7 March 2022 at 8:06 am

      I've just done a post with some intersections to that of Mr Smith, so come on over and have a good ol' roast.

    • Adrian Thornton 14.2
      7 March 2022 at 12:36 pm

      "Given that Mike Smith has a special privilege here as one of the Trustees of the site I am going to self-censor and sanction this site until he is removed."

      Doesn't sound like there is any stepping out of, or even debating the well trodden Western narrative with our Comrade 'RedLogix'…don't worry RL you can just listen to RNZ all day long, as they too refuse to engage in disseminating any meaningful historical background or current context to this conflict….it seems like that sort of 'reportage' should suit you right down to the ground.

      "He has chosen his side"…I really thought you were smarter than that.

      [Why don’t you focus your efforts on addressing the OP and joining the actual debate instead of pursuing one of your usual pet hobbies that comprises attacking one of your preferred targets because of their perceived ideological, moral, and/or cognitive flaws (aka you strongly disagree with them)? There’s plenty of substance in the OP to set your sharp teeth in – Incognito]

      • Byd0nz 14.2.1
        7 March 2022 at 1:06 pm

        He has chosen his side"…I really thought you were smarter than that..

        Well I didn’t, RL is good at deleting other’s comments, I think the Red is OK, but the Logic bit should be replaced with Neck

        [Your inflammatory comments are a diversion from the debate. If you cannot get past your obvious dislike of another commenter then keep quiet unless you want to draw attention to yourself for all the wrong reasons and get burnt as a result. This is your last warning – Incognito]

      • Incognito 14.2.2
        7 March 2022 at 2:30 pm

        Mod note for you.

  15. Andrew Miller 15
    7 March 2022 at 7:39 am

    Wow!

    The Standard are printing pro Putin propaganda that may as well be written in the Kremlin, whilst Russian military are committing crimes against humanity.
    But then you can just play the meeeja card and equally embarrassing moral equivalence card. It’s like reading a bunch 18year olds that just discovered Chomsky.

    This is why the term useful idiots is so er…useful, Putin and co are of well aware of the extent of the extremely far right/neo Nazi presence in Russia (it’s not like it’s not well documented), they’re also well aware of the fact it’s common knowledge in the West, yet he can be confident there’ll be enough people willing to ignore all that, swallow the propaganda as they’ll lap up anything that allows them to continue their reflexive anti Americanism.
    All the while so long as they dress it up as ‘balance’ they get to portray this morally vacuous horseshit as reasonable and anyone else as either ‘hysterical’ or dupes of ‘mainstream media’.
    I do also love that the ‘When we do it good, when they do it bad’ type comments never get old and people still think they’re making a serious point.

    [lprent: Read the about and the policy. It will give you a clearer idea of how the site operates and the diversity of opinion amongst authors. I’m aware that you don’t appear to have been commenting here for too long. But you should learn about what you’re commenting about. Otherwise you’ll find that it leads to you being banned for suggesting that a dumb computer has a mind. ]

    • RedLogix 15.1
      7 March 2022 at 7:46 am

      The Standard has no editorial committee. What happened is that Smith wrote this all by himself and hit publish. As one of the two trustees no-one is going to stop him publishing whatever he wants. That is just how it is.

      Attack him at your peril; the best advice I can give is to protect yourself by not associating with it.

      • Blazer 15.1.1
        7 March 2022 at 7:56 am

        Wouldn't countering his arguments with evidence that destroys them, be a more effective…approach?

        • RedLogix 15.1.1.1
          7 March 2022 at 8:02 am

          Once the bombs and bullets start flying the time for argument is over. You pick a side and either live or die for it.

          • Byd0nz 15.1.1.1.1
            7 March 2022 at 8:34 am

            Well we all know what side you’re on ‘Captain Nato’. As long as the bombs are falling on the Don-separatists supplied by NATO and Yankeeland, you seem ok with it.

            Seems like you want to do some sanctions of your own, ie, Mike the writer of this post., who is at least putting some balance on your view types. Lol

          • Tiger Mountain 15.1.1.1.2
            7 March 2022 at 3:24 pm

            Well if you have ever seen “Dr Strangelove”, and “Threads”, the side worth picking is world peace, not sides within Imperialist conflicts.

      • Andrew Miller 15.1.2
        7 March 2022 at 8:06 am

        Meh, what’s the worst that happens? I get banned from a blog site that lets shit like this be punished.

        I do find it interesting that this branch of the left just refuse to die. The weirdest this is that the decades that these types shilled for the Soviet Union you could at least understand in terms of them telling themselves they were defending Socialism against the evils Capitalist Imperialists.
        Now, be it Russia or China they’re shilling for States that are even more corrupt versions of Capitalism. It’s pretty much impossible to dress it as anything but crude anti Americanism.
        The mental gymnastics required to give it a veneer of reasonable are amusing in a slightly sickening kind of way.

        Thanks for the explanation, as it at least doesn’t leave me thinking everyone involved is devoid of a moral compass.

        • tsmithfield 15.1.2.1
          7 March 2022 at 9:01 am

          Neo-Nazis in Ukraine are a fringe group, and not represented in the Ukraine government:

          "In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector.[4] However, the resulting coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition failed to pass the 5% threshold it gained no parliamentary seats.[5] No far-right parties gained seats in the Verkhovna Rada (Ukraine's parliament), as they all failed to win any single-mandate constituency seat.[5]''

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine

          So, the results from the 2019 election suggests that neo-nazis don’t have any broad support in Ukraine.

          If it can be considered justifiable to invade Ukraine because Ukraine has some right-wing extremists, then I guess it would be justifiable invading us on the same basis, because, we have right wing extremists here as well.

      • Incognito 15.1.3
        7 March 2022 at 8:10 am

        My advice: address the Post and don’t attack the Author. The absolute worst that can happen is that I start moderating personal attacks, which are not uncommon under Mike’s Posts sad

        • Andrew Miller 15.1.3.1
          7 March 2022 at 8:50 am

          Fine moderate me then.
          If you want to pretend that repugnance at this kind of propaganda bs is a ‘personal attack’ then that’s on you.
          I just think it’s sad you seem so unaware of the sources he’s dressing up as reasonable opinion. It’s not hard to find information on just how odious someone like Max Blumenthal is. Any kind of decent left should have nothing to do with the likes of him.
          If The Standard wants to associate itself with the kind of conspiracy level nonsense that people have no problem recognising when it comes from the far right, then so be it but you can’t then complain if you lose credibility off the back of it.

          • Incognito 15.1.3.1.1
            7 March 2022 at 9:01 am

            So far, 31 comments under this Post and a few who just or mostly attack the messenger(s), without much substance, rather than the contents of the Post. If you cannot handle controversial and difficult debate then please leave it on your own accord. I’m trying to set clear boundaries, so that everyone who does wish so can argue the topic of the OP. HTH angel

            • tsmithfield 15.1.3.1.1.1
              7 March 2022 at 9:33 am

              I agree. If we value free speech, we should not be prohibiting people from stating controversial views even if we don't like them.

              That, of course, gives those who disagree the right to point out why they think the ideas are wrong.

              • lprent …
                7 March 2022 at 12:50 pm

                Which is the whole point of putting posts up.

                What the moderators get antsy about is comments doing personal attacks or attacks against the site, comments that assert fact without backing it, links that don't actually back assertions of fact, comments astroturfing the site, and comments that are clearly designed to cause flamewars and breakdown of robust debate.

                For the inevitable people who have a problem with assertions of fact boundaries, then if you're unsure about the support of facts, then just express them as being your own opinion.

                Opinions matter because long-term commenters who aren't fools accumulate respect from all sides because they offer links, ideas and opinions that are hard to refute.

      • lprent 15.1.4
        7 March 2022 at 12:43 pm

        This is pretty much bullshit.

        Attack him at your peril; the best advice I can give is to protect yourself by not associating with it.

        Offhand, I can't remember that last time that Mike actually moderated comments.

        I on the other hand, as the other trustee with a strong divergence of of lot of opinion to Mike, do moderate when I have time. You're aware of this having been an author and moderator for years, and having done a few orders of more moderation than that Mike does.

        If you want to comment about the site, then I'd suggest that you shouldn't indulge in quite so much hypocrisy.

        • RedLogix 15.1.4.1
          7 March 2022 at 9:32 pm

          Two points. One is that I was quite aware that Smith does not engage much with his own posts and leaves the moderation to others. It was not him I was expressing concern about.

          Secondly as you are aware I have chosen to relinquish any role as moderator for a number of reasons; and this post merely adds to them.

          Freedom of speech is well and good, but I suggest Smith goes to some city in Ukraine right now and express the same sentiments.

    • lprent 15.2
      7 March 2022 at 12:37 pm

      See my mod note.

  16. UncookedSelachimorpha 16
    7 March 2022 at 8:02 am

    Weird how someone driven by such noble intentions, seems so intent on looting his own country.

    So because Hitler despised Slavs, Putin is murdering thousands of Slavs in a Slavic nation, the leader of which (who Putin aims to assasinate) is Jewish. Makes sense. Prior to the invasion, Igor Shchupak, a Holocaust historian in Dnipro:

    …past persecution of Jews was carried out mostly when Ukraine’s territory was under the control of foreign states, principally Russia and Germany, that made anti-Semitism official policy.

    From the same article:

    Despite its scarred history, Ukraine today is no hotbed of anti-Semitism. It already has a Jewish prime minister, Volodymyr Groysman, and if he stays on after Mr. Zelensky is sworn in, Ukraine will be the only country outside of Israel where the heads of state and government are Jewish.

    “We have anti-Semites today, but we have no anti-Semitism as a state policy,” he said.

    A survey by the Pew Research Center found that only 5 percent of Ukrainians surveyed would not accept Jews as fellow citizens, compared with 18 percent of Poles, 22 percent of Romanians and 23 percent of Lithuanians. Ukraine now has the world’s third- or fourth-largest Jewish community, but estimates of its size vary wildly, ranging from 120,000 to 400,000 people, depending on who is counting.

    “The times of pogroms are over,” Rabbi Kaminezki said. “This is not on anybody’s agenda here.”

    No doubt the Azov group are largely despicable, as is Nazism in Ukraine (and all other European nations). Mass murder of civilians and soldiers with apparent empire building as the real goal, doesn't seem the answer.

    Clearly the whole "Nazi" thing is just a pretext. You can get a much better idea of Russian motivations prior to the invasion here.

    An extraordinary and hateful essay has revealed the malignancy in the hearts of Kremlin policymakers.

    ….

    As regards Ukraine it confirms, extends, and threatens: it confirms the Russian elite view that there is no such thing as a distinct Ukrainian identity, that consequently, the Ukrainian state is some sort of monstrous historical deviation from its true place within Russia, and that it really has no right to sovereign existence. The reader must conclude that its continuing existence is seen as a continuing offense to modern Russia’s ongoing pretensions to empire and also, implicitly, the entire narrative of Putin’s state as the true heir of Kievan Rus’, the early medieval Russian entity, which had its capital in Kyiv.

    A better description for "Russia's territorial incursion" (sounds like a lovely holiday) is a bloody war – why use such euphemisms? It makes you sound like a mere conduit for Kremlin propaganda.

    • Hongi Ika 16.1
      7 March 2022 at 8:33 am

      Might piss Isreal off if he assasinates the little Ukrainian Jew.

      • Adrian Thornton 16.1.1
        7 March 2022 at 1:04 pm

        Israel arms the the Neo Nazi's (by default)….

        Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine

        Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces

        https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727

        • Tiger Mountain 16.1.1.1
          7 March 2022 at 4:20 pm

          The global arms industry always seems to somehow remain reasonably unseen. Weapons and ammunition is obviously manufactured somewhere and funded by someone.

          Who pays for these Israeli arms exports I wonder–could it at least partially be the USA who provide around 3 billion per annum to the Israeli military?

  17. UncookedSelachimorpha 17
    7 March 2022 at 8:08 am

    I remember visiting the site of the Katyn Forest massacre in Poland twenty plus years ago. Another case of Russia ordering atrocities and then blaming nazis.

  18. Andrew Miller 18
    7 March 2022 at 8:41 am

    Anyone reading this should be aware of who Max Blumenthal is. He’s literally been paid by both Putin and Assad and is one of the people behind the White Helmet ‘false flag’ conspiracy theory.

    He has no credibility except amongst utter cranks. It’s nothing more than the left wing equivalent of the kind of far right conspiracy media this site rightfully decries.
    I do wonder to what extent anyone else involved in The Standard understands the damage it does to the site’s credibility.

    Anyway, that’s me done. Deleted off my feed.

    • RedLogix 18.1
      7 March 2022 at 8:59 am

      That is my sense of it too. I could ignore Smith's dubious record defending the CCP, but this has stepped over the line.

      The rest of the world has firmly and with a surprising degree of unanimity rejected Putin's crimes with massive and serious sanctions; everyone is scrambling to withdraw from Russia as fast a possible.

      If this were one rogue author the situation here might be different, but this comes from one of the people who literally own this site, therefore I no longer believe The Standard can be part of any legitimate discourse.

      • Blazer 18.1.1
        7 March 2022 at 9:03 am

        You are over reacting imo Red.

        Why tar all authors here with the same brush?

        Your middle paragraph is an exaggeration too.

      • Adrian Thornton 18.1.2
        7 March 2022 at 12:58 pm

        Can you please post a link to another piece published on TS that has offered any kind of balance or historical context on this conflict over the past 10 days?…one that has contributed to any kind of balanced "legitimate discourse"….I personally think the Right Wing problem in the Ukraine is only part of a far larger and very complicated picture behind this awful conflict…however all the parts deserve closer examination…not instant censorship….which is now the first action all you Liberal Imperialists call for when confronted with any counter narrative you don't like….grow up man.

      • Tricledrown 18.1.3
        7 March 2022 at 2:30 pm

        It's opinion counter it with your opinions.

        It's illogical to run away.

        Mike Smith is trying the tucker carlson/Trump thing.

        Hypocritical .

        Zelensky was a famous comedian in the Ukrain who put his name forward to run for president thinking it would be a laugh he won a landslide.

        Over Pootins puppet and that's when pootin decided to ACT.

    • Adrian Thornton 18.2
      7 March 2022 at 12:42 pm

      "Max Blumenthal is. He’s literally been paid by both Putin and Assad" really?…how about you put some credible links up to prove that..

  19. mpledger 19
    7 March 2022 at 9:05 am

    This Nazi stuff was swirling around in America before the Capitol riots. It just smells like Russian propaganda – "what would put Europe off supporting Ukraine? They are really Nazis and Nazis are the worst."

  20. Gosman 20
    7 March 2022 at 9:49 am

    What actual policy of the Ukrainian government qualifies as "neo-Nazi"?

    • tsmithfield 20.1
      7 March 2022 at 9:56 am

      None that I know of. They have a Jewish leader. And the Neo-Nazis only gained 2% of the vote in the 2019 election and didn't win any seats as I point out in my post above.

      • Gosman 20.1.1
        7 March 2022 at 10:18 am

        I agree entirely with you. I am curious how people who argue that Ukraine is a hotbed of neo-Nazis respond to the question though. If the government has been infiltrated by them as suggested then surely this is evidenced by actual policies which could be described as neo-Nazi.

        • tsmithfield 20.1.1.1
          7 March 2022 at 10:32 am

          I think they have a few neo-nazis in the military. But what better place for them than the front-line?

      • lprent 20.1.2
        7 March 2022 at 12:53 pm

        The whole of far-right parties seem to have gotten less than 4% in total in 2019.

        In other words something like what our overtly christian parties get.

        By the logic Russia is pushing about the Ukraine, we’re in the verge of becoming a theological state in NZ.

    • Pierre 20.2
      10 March 2022 at 9:39 pm

      Several left forces, including the Communist Party, have been prohibited from standing in elections. Communists were expelled from the parliament in 2014 and their parliamentary group was forcibly dissolved.

      They won a respectable 12% vote share at the national elections in 2012.

  21. Dennis Frank 21
    7 March 2022 at 10:07 am

    Putin's self-declared de-nazification agenda seems a bit like cleaning out a cockroach infestation in the pantry when the pantry is in your neighbour's house.

    Taking him at face-value, the thing to notice is that he hasn't declared any success in his eradification effort thus far. I wonder, could that be due to the Azov regiment not wearing the Wolfsangel symbol on their uniform? Hard to hit an invisible target.

    The political party which uses that symbol has lost influence in recent years. Even in this unified front with other rightist parties they did poorly:

    In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election other parties joined Svoboda to form a united party list; the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, Right Sector and National Corps. But in the election they won 2.15% of the votes, less than half of the 5% election threshold, and thus no parliamentary seats via the national party list. The party did win one constituency seat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

    If Putin is seriously paranoid about these national socialists, it'd be akin to the normal paranoia an elephant feels about a nearby mouse. And he seems enough of a nationalist socialist himself to make me wonder why he's threatened by the ideology. More likely he's just using it as a pretext pretence.

    • Tricledrown 21.1
      7 March 2022 at 2:33 pm

      Pootin has been funding far right groups including Farage to divide Europe destroy the European Union, to powerful for his liking.

    • Jenny how to get there 21.2
      7 March 2022 at 3:20 pm

      "…..More likely he's just using it as a pretext pretence." Dennis Frank

      7 March 2022 at 10:07 am

      Absolutely. Just as the Assassination of Grand Duke Ferdinand of Prussia by a terrorist was used as a pretext for the First World War.

      For the causes of this war, (or any other war), you have to dig a lot deeper than the stated pretexts.

      As Karl Marx wrote 'the limits to the exploitation of the feudal serf were determined by the walls of the stomach of the feudal lord'.

      However with the industrial revolution and the invention of capitalism, accumulation for accumulation's sake became the norm there were no limits to growth in exploitation of human labour and the environment. (apart from the physical limits of the planet itself).

      Unlike feudalism, capitalism is an expansive system, based on the premise, (and expectation) of endless growth. Without growth capitalist economies go into recession.

      But capitalism didn't development all over the globe all at once, it developed at different rates and in different countries at different times. This meant that the growth economies that came late to full flower, found the world already divided up between the established powers.

      These late comers to the growth economy Lenin call the have not imperialists. They included Germany, Japan, Italy. They wanted to grow into new territories and markets but found barriers to growth in the fact that these markets and colonies were already occupied. Not being able to grow they faced economic collapse and depression.

      The Growth economies of Russia and America are butting up not just against the natural buffers of the planet but up against each other.

      They don't want to go to war. They have to go to war.

      Any pretext will do.

      • Jenny how to get there 21.2.1
        7 March 2022 at 3:45 pm

        Only rarely does a book truly change the world. In the nineteenth century, such a book was Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species….

        Dennis Meadows on the 50th anniversary of the publication of The Limits to Growth – Post Carbon Institute

        By: NOTICES AND FEATURES – Date published:6:15 am, February 28th, 2022

        I would argue that Karl Marx's book Capital was even more transformative than the nineteenth century work of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species. Darwin's work certainly changed the way we looked at the natural world with benefits to science. Karl Marx' work Capital also written in the 19th century changed the world as well.

        As Marx himself said, the purpose of philosophers is to understand the world, the point of course is to change it.

        The analogy of the walls of feudal Lord's stomach being the limit to exploitation under feudalism, compared to the limitless growth economy of capitalism gives us a clue to the underlying causes of all modern wars.

    • Jenny how to get there 21.3
      7 March 2022 at 4:03 pm

      "Putin's self-declared de-nazification agenda seems a bit like cleaning out a cockroach infestation in the pantry when the pantry is in your neighbour's house." Dennis Frank

      Best original analogy skewering Putin's pretext for launching this war, that I have read, so far.

      • Dennis Frank 21.3.1
        7 March 2022 at 4:53 pm

        Thanks Jenny. smiley I would have added an eye-rolling emoji except the damn thing's too serious for that. I hope his convoy remains stuck into the rainy season…

        • Brigid 21.3.1.1
          7 March 2022 at 6:09 pm

          But in this case the neighbour with the cockroach infestation requested assistance.

          The Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic appealed to Russia with a request for help. Hardly unreasonable considering the brutality the people of Donbass have endued over the last 8 years

          • Dennis Frank 21.3.1.1.1
            7 March 2022 at 6:55 pm

            I've noticed reports of such a request. I gathered they issued from Putin, which raises the question of credibility. These two political entities lack international recognition of their status.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic

            A basic principle of international law is that sovereign statehood derives from recognition by other states as much as assertion of independence.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state

            It would help their claim if they could each cite a referendum result that established the will of their people. Can they?

            I'm willing to credit their ethnic affiliation with Russia – and can acknowledge that Ukrainian nationalists aligning with neo-nazis to repress them ain't a good look. However the UN cannot act on their behalf without evidence of the will of their people…

          • Jenny how to get there 21.3.1.1.2
            8 March 2022 at 5:29 am

            Brigid

            7 March 2022 at 6:09 pm

            But in this case the neighbour with the cockroach infestation requested assistance.

            The Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic appealed to Russia with a request for help…..

            I notice here Brigid, that you don't give any link or proof for your claim that the armed greater Russian nationalists in Donetsk and Lugansk were invited in.. But even if your claim was true – using the same analogy – You don't send in even more neo-nazi 'cockroaches' to clear out a neo-nazi infestation in you neighbors pantry

            ….The ideologues, as well as some prominent members of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity party [headed by Alexander Barkashov, believed to be in Donetsk at the moment], Alexander Dugin’s ultra-nationalist Eurasia Party; Edward Limonov’s Other Russia party and Black Hundred are either actively involved in the fighting in eastern Ukraine or effectively encouraging others to take part.

            Pavel Gubarev, one of the leaders of the Donetsk militants from the outset is known for his roots in the Russian National Unity party. His aide, Alexander Proselkov, shot and killed on July 31 by the militants’ own security guards, was a Russian national and member of the neo-fascist International Eurasia Movement and Eurasian Youth Union, both closely linked to Dugin. He was one of many Dugin followers now in eastern Ukraine.

            Neo-fascist Dugin’ has friends and / or followers in high places in Moscow. His anti-Western and anti-democratic rhetoric was disturbingly echoed in Glazyev and Shevchenko’s addresses in Yalta.

            Dugin, Barkashov and Limonov and their supporters have provided active support and training to militants in eastern Ukraine.

            Nor is any of this new. Anton Shekhovtsov, a researcher on far-right movements, reports clear evidence of Russian security service support for pro-Russian ‘separatists’ since 2005….

            Russian fascist ideologue Dugin: Why stop with Donetsk and Luhansk?

            01.09.2014

            Halya Coynash

            [You have a bad habit of repeating yourself ad nauseam and also spamming the site with the same copy & pastes. For example, you pasted the same text as in this comment here (https://thestandard.org.nz/the-international-legion-of-territorial-defence/#comment-1872019), here too (https://thestandard.org.nz/denazifying-ukraine/#comment-1872131), and all in less than 24 hours. If you want to refer to your own earlier ‘pearls of wisdom’ then use a link to that/those comment(s). Don’t do this again because spam leads to ban – Incognito]

  22. alwyn 22
    7 March 2022 at 10:29 am

    So, the author of this post proposes that "In my opinion if it was the right thing to do to fight against German Nazism in 1939".

    Yes, indeed it was. What a shame that the USSR wasn't in the group that fought against German Nazism at that time. Instead they fought alongside Germany and shared the spoils by helping Germany dismember Poland.

    They then remained a German ally through the rest of 1939, and then through the whole of 1940 and the first half of 1941. It was only on June 21 1941 that the alliance finished with the German invasion and even then the leaders of the USSR found it hard to believe. Through all that time they supplied Germany with war materials.

  23. DB Brown 23
    7 March 2022 at 10:36 am

    It takes little effort to find that this post is garbage.

    Should we invade Ashburton? – because some of the locals there…

    As for the blowhard in the video talking up his own importance – they're all like that, these 'superior beings'. Stains on humanity.

  24. Jenny how to get there 24
    7 March 2022 at 12:23 pm

    There are neo-nazi battalions fighting on both sides. Which side has the more Nazis?

    Maybe we could do a head count?

    Maybe Nato could launch an invasion to denazify Russia?

    ;….it can be argued that there is some justification for Ukraine to fight against Russian Nazism that has been killing their compatriots at their borders in the Donbas and in Donetsk since 2014. [sark]

    ….The ideologues, as well as some prominent members of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity party [headed by Alexander Barkashov, believed to be in Donetsk at the moment], Alexander Dugin’s ultra-nationalist Eurasia Party; Edward Limonov’s Other Russia party and Black Hundred are either actively involved in the fighting in eastern Ukraine or effectively encouraging others to take part.

    Pavel Gubarev, one of the leaders of the Donetsk militants from the outset is known for his roots in the Russian National Unity party. His aide, Alexander Proselkov, shot and killed on July 31 by the militants’ own security guards, was a Russian national and member of the neo-fascist International Eurasia Movement and Eurasian Youth Union, both closely linked to Dugin. He was one of many Dugin followers now in eastern Ukraine.

    Neo-fascist Dugin’ has friends and / or followers in high places in Moscow. His anti-Western and anti-democratic rhetoric was disturbingly echoed in Glazyev and Shevchenko’s addresses in Yalta.

    Dugin, Barkashov and Limonov and their supporters have provided active support and training to militants in eastern Ukraine.

    Nor is any of this new. Anton Shekhovtsov, a researcher on far-right movements, reports clear evidence of Russian security service support for pro-Russian ‘separatists’ since 2005….

    Russian fascist ideologue Dugin: Why stop with Donetsk and Luhansk?

    01.09.2014

    Halya Coynash

    • Hongi Ika 24.1
      7 March 2022 at 12:54 pm

      Good Idea Agree +100%

    • Hongi Ika 24.2
      7 March 2022 at 4:34 pm

      If NATO invade Russia on the pretext of removing the Neo-Nazi Groups in Russia which country is Poots going to Nuke First.

      Lets have a Competition to see who he will Nuke First, probably the USA's closest ally in Europe who would that be ?

  25. Stuart Munro 25
    7 March 2022 at 12:40 pm

    Well, my feeling, Mike, is that your sources leave something to be desired.

    And, even had there been any merit in their assessment of the Azov battalion, the Russian invasion would be a disproportionate response.

    When someone initiates an attack against you, a proportionate response is said to be one that suffices to prevent further attacks.

    It is certainly true that Russia has suffered grievously from Nazi ideology – a conquest based approach to international relations and vigorous suppression of civil dissent are evidence of the degree to which totalitarianism survives among a post-Soviet population one would have expected to have been more resistant to such ideological infections.

  26. Adrian 26
    7 March 2022 at 1:02 pm

    Is the Standard disappearing down its on rabbit hole?

    • McFlock 26.1
      7 March 2022 at 1:09 pm

      The authors are a broad church, lol

      • lprent 26.1.1
        7 March 2022 at 1:57 pm

        And we usually disagree with each other. It has been that way since we started.

        I completely disagree with Mike's interpretation of events and even his choice of sources.

        For instance, I cannot find any actual evidence of TASS'es assertion of facts that

        Not a single civilian was able to exit Mariupol and Volnovakha via the declared security corridors. Nationalist groups use the population of those cities as a human shield. Nationalist battalions used the ceasefire period for regrouping their forces and reinforcing their positions.

        If you read that quotation closely, it becomes a assertion of three separate and unrelated facts – and totally meaningless as a statement. TASS quoted just one source "Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major Gen. Igor Konashenkov" who claimed that the cease fires started at 1000, and ended at 1800. No independent sources. Not even Russian journos with the forces – probably because they couldn’t be trusted to not tell something accurately.

        Basically this pompous brass-laden dickhead is probably simply lying. The alternative is that he is also incompetent that you'd have to wonder how he got promoted – arse-licking perhaps.

        There are numerous sources from inside Mariupol and across visible media from local citizens claiming and showing artillery falling by 1100, and numerous reports from people trying to bring transport in to evacuate civilians stating that they lost vehicles.

        What there isn't is any evidence of is that Ukrainian forces tried to prevent civilians leaving.

        In my opinion, Mike needs to check out more credible sources than some idiot general and TASS.

  27. Corey Humm 27
    7 March 2022 at 1:05 pm

    Wow. Russian forces shooting up nuclear power plants and threatening the world with nuclear obliteration and untold consequences is acceptable?

    Because Nazis? That excuse is weaker than Todd Muellers leadership of the national party.

    Russia was a victim of Nazism was it? Oh and the rest of Europe wasn't? Ha. Russia also teamed up with the Nazis before Hitler betrayed him but yeah sure.

    Ukraine was a victim of Russian oppression. It's funny how all former Soviet nations who lived under Soviet oppression are condemning Russia the loudest because they actually remember what it was like and will fight to the death not to be under their thumb again.

    Considering the authors previous posts on the Chinese government on this site, I'm not surprised the author has an unusual take on Russian agression.

    I strongly disagree with this take

    I applaud this site for allowing this post because as disagreeable as many will find it it's important to be able to have disagreements and different points of view, after all this is New Zealand not Russia, where if you stand against Putin you get very very very sick very very very fast.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 27.1
      7 March 2022 at 6:15 pm

      Poland and Hungary teamed up with the Nazis to take bits of Czechoslovakia after the Munich agreements. The Brits invaded nuetral Norway and Iceland too for the same reasons – strategic advantage

      The Soviets wanted roughly the border with Poland they were awarded by Versailles along the Curzon line, Poland didnt accept that in the 1919-1921 period and invaded Ukraine to 'reclaim' the historic lands populated by Ukraine peasants under the Polish minor nobility, the Szlachta who were roughly equivalent to the Prussian Junkers

  28. Tricledrown 28
    7 March 2022 at 2:42 pm

    Putin is Russias latest tsarist.

    The people are his serfs.

    If the Ukraine can fight a guerilla war it could be the end of putin just like Russias occupation of Afghanistan it ended communist rule and brought about the break up of the Soviet Union.

    How long will it take if the body bags of the poorly paid soldiers keep mounting it could be sooner than later.

    A military coup.

  29. Mike Smith 29
    7 March 2022 at 2:57 pm

    To get to this video by Graham Phillips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1fuhKwXVA titled "Ukraine: Nazism, denazification, banderovets, residential area artillery, and guns for everyone" you have to go through two warnings from YouTube. Phillips is a British journalist, columnist, blogger and photographer who has worked in Unkraine and Russia. His site has 183k subscribers.

    • SPC 29.1
      7 March 2022 at 3:40 pm

      The AZOV Regiment is a volunteer unit and is part of the National Guard, it is much much smaller than the reservist component, conscript and permanent personnel of the Ukraine Army. It may now number as many as 5000 (some are former Ukraine Army who comprise its specialist capabilities in reconnaissance) – but the proportion whom are said to be white race identity nationalists was never put as any higher than 20%.

    • Bruce 29.2
      7 March 2022 at 4:26 pm

      You mean this guy

      https://www.stopfake.org/en/british-citizen-exposed-as-a-tool-of-russia-s-fsb/

      “Then the “Tripwire” incident occurred, which made Phillips infamous for falsely claiming that the Ukrainian army had shot at him. Even RT contradicted his claim, retracting and correcting their story. Phillips’ reports progressively devolved into blatant Kremlin propaganda. Soon he was banned from entering Ukraine (for 3-years) in July 2014, claiming to have been penalized “for working for RT“.Once RT had dropped Phillips, he was relegated to providing his video-based propaganda exclusively to Russian language news media outlets, including LifeNews, and the Russian military outlet, Zvezda.
      Phillips holding a weapon, saluting, SM post January 21st 2015”

      • Psycho Milt 29.2.1
        7 March 2022 at 4:35 pm

        Illuminating.

        "Phillips, who switched from the Conservatives to UKIP, openly became friends with Piers Mellor — a well-known neo-Nazi and fascist affiliated with far-right political party, Golden Dawn, also widely described as Neo-Nazi and fascist — who was seen protesting with Phillips:"

        I do agree with Putin that there's a fascist threat in eastern Europe, we just disagree about who poses the fascist threat.

    • Jenny how to get there 29.3
      8 March 2022 at 5:55 am

      As a number of commenters here have pointed out to you Mike. The influence and indeed numbers of neo-nazis in the Unkrain is small, there are as many if not more neo-nazis on the Russian side. Especially in Donetsk and Lugansk.

      This shouldn't come as a shock as nazism is a death cult that fetishises war and nationalism.

      As is usual with war the stated pretext for a given war is not the real reason for that war.

  30. Tom Hunter 30
    7 March 2022 at 3:07 pm

    For all the talk of Dugin and company inside Russia you all might want to have a read of this 2018 article from NY Books about an early-mid 20th century Russian philosopher, Ivan Ilyin, Putin’s Philosopher of Russian Fascism.

    He’s some piece of work and has become quite popular again in Russia thanks to Mr Putin, who occasionally quotes him and has had extracts of Ilyin's books sent out to various government groups, including the military. It's a lengthy read but worth your time.

  31. Jenny how to get there 31
    7 March 2022 at 6:33 pm

    'Ukraine, We Won't Desert You!': Anti-Russia Protests Sweep Europe

    Russia-Ukraine War: Russia's assault on Ukraine on February 24 has sparked global condemnation.

    Denazifying Russia

    ….Thousands of Russians defied the authorities and around 2,500 were detained on Sunday for protesting against the war.

    A police spokeswoman said 1,700 people were arrested in Moscow after around 2,500 took part in an "unsanctioned protest", while 750 were detained at a smaller rally of around 1,500 people in the second-largest city, Saint Petersburg, Russian news agencies reported.

    OVD-Info, which monitors detentions at opposition protests, put the
    figure of detainees in 49 towns and cities across Russia at 2,575 people and said police used electric shockers on protesters.

    The latest detentions brought the total number of demonstrators held to more than 10,000 since the invasion began.

  32. observer 32
    7 March 2022 at 6:37 pm

    Well, I can't tell the Standard's various contributors and moderators what to publish on their blog. It's their choice, of course.

    I can only speak for myself, and I think this is quite appalling, and I want no part of it. So I'll leave you to it.

    But let's not kid ourselves here. Finding spurious excuses to defend Putin's slaughter of innocent civilians isn't "left", isn't progressive, isn't humanitarian, isn't internationalist, isn't environmentalist, isn't socialist, isn't anything decent at all.

    The victims deserve better than this. Shame.

  33. Jenny how to get there 33
    7 March 2022 at 6:53 pm

    Nazifying Serbia

    Pro-Russian neo-nazis in Serbia organise a protest march in support of Putin's invasion of the Ukraine.

    …..Since the Western Nazis are not interested in this, it is logical that the Russian and Belarusian people will take justice into their own hands, it said…..

    Serbian Far-Right Group to Hold Pro-Russia Rally

    Sasa Dragojlo Balkan Insight Belgrade March 1, 2022

    “Serbian far-right organisations have for decades been supportive of Orthodox Russia, citing historical and religious ties.”

    Makes me wonder what New Zealand’s pro-Russian neo-nazis’ rationalisation is for supporting Putin’s war in Ukraine.

  34. tsmithfield 34
    7 March 2022 at 9:59 pm

    Russia appears to be trying to denazify Ukraine by using their own neo-nazis:

    "Russian separatist warlord who led Neo-Nazi 'Sparta' mob is shot dead during battle in eastern Ukraine town in fresh blow to Putin's floundering invasion"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10583341/Russian-warlord-led-Neo-Nazi-Sparta-mob-shot-dead-battle-eastern-Ukraine.html

    So maybe Putin needs to clean out his own house before he tries to clean out someone elses.

  36. Jenny how to get there 36
    7 March 2022 at 10:53 pm

    Denazifying Depopulating Ukraine

    ……Kharkiv and the other cities and towns have suffered grievous damage, and as far as we know many civilian casualties. The seat of Kharkiv's local government was badly damaged in a missile strike that was filmed. Russian President Vladimir Putin might be sending a message to Kyiv – look to the east, because this could happen to you.

    The depressing conclusion I've drawn from other wars in which I have seen Russians in action is that it could get much worse…..

    ….Russia answers resistance with firepower. Rather than send in men to fight from house to house and room to room, their military doctrine calls for a bombardment by heavy weapons and from the air to destroy their enemies….

    In Chechnya, Russia's answer was to use its firepower. In a few weeks, artillery and air strikes reduced the centre of Grozny, a typical concrete and steel Soviet city, to rubble. I was in Minutka Square, a centre of Chechen resistance, on a day when it was hit by repeated air strikes. Civilians were mostly in cellars, risking death every time they went out to find water or food.

    In Minutka Square that day, Chechen fighters were killed by cluster bombs, and buildings set on fire. Twenty-four hours later, the entire main avenue of the city was hit by missile strikes and enveloped in smoke and flame. The ground was shaking where we were filming….

    …..The most devastated places I have seen in years of war reporting, apart from Grozny, were in Syria. The connection is the destructive power of the Russian military….

    ….The tactic used in Syria was to encircle and besiege rebel-held areas, pound them from the air and from artillery batteries, and in the end exhaust the defenders and any civilians who had not managed to escape. Many of them were killed….

    …..When I was able to drive through Eastern Aleppo a few weeks after it fell, destruction went on for mile after mile. I couldn't see a building that was untouched. Entire neighbourhoods were left in ruins. Streets were blocked with mountain ranges of rubble….

    ……..siege and overwhelming firepower wins battles. That is because defenders get killed and exhausted, and civilians, however defiant, are subjected to such fear and misery that they welcome the respite that surrender brings.

    In Kyiv, one of the big questions on everybody's minds is whether they are going to get the treatment meted out not only to Kharkiv, Mariupol and the rest, but also to Chechnya and Syria.

    From Grozny to Aleppo to Ukraine, Russia meets resistance with more firepower

    By Jeremy Bowen
    BBC News, Kyiv

    • Hongi Ika 36.1
      8 March 2022 at 4:43 am

      Scorched Earth Policy

    • Hongi Ika 36.2
      8 March 2022 at 4:55 am

      Hopefully the UN War Crimes Tribunal finds Putin guilty of War Crimes and makes Russia rebuild the Ukraine after all the damage Russia has caused to the country.

  37. Jenny how to get there 37
    8 March 2022 at 8:22 am

    So, how's that fake Denazification campaign going?

    …Mozhayev, 54, his right cheek purplish and swollen, picked up a small plastic chair stained with blood. “That’s her chair,” he said in a low voice that faded into the hum of a bulldozer nearby. “During the day she was always sitting up in this chair.”

    The chair belonged to his 12-year-old disabled daughter, Masha. She was killed with her mother, grandmother, and three other civilians in a suspected Russian airstrike on Friday….

    About 3 p.m. they were pulling up in front of their spacious house on a quiet street lined with other houses. Mozhayev was resting on a couch in the living room.

    That’s when the airstrike hit.

    ….His wife, Anna, and the others had died inside the car, which exploded into flames. Masha, who couldn’t walk because a drunk driver hit her eight years ago, was also dead. So was the boyfriend of Mozhayev’s niece….

    ….The airstrike, and the family tragedy it bore, is one piece of possible evidence that many in this devastated village hope will help hold Russia accountable.

    …..As of midnight Saturday, the U.N. had recorded 364 civilian deaths, including 25 children, and 707 wounded. Among the wounded were 36 children. Heavy artillery, multiple rocket launchers, missiles and airstrikes caused most of the deaths,…..

    …On Saturday morning, Mykola Medynsky arrived at the site of the attack. The tall and burly Ukrainian military chaplain clutched a wooden cross and wore a long, camouflage-green cleric’s robe and a gold embroidered vestment. He was accompanied by Lysenko, the military videographer.

    Since the invasion began, the pair have comforted hundreds of civilians trapped by war in the capital. “We go down to the basements where people are hiding,” said Medynsky. “If we feel that people have anxiety, we start to work with them gently, with prayers, psychological work, moral support.”….

    ,,,,As he sifted through the debris, Mozhayev found a black and white tattered photo of his wife Anna as a girl in ponytails. “She was younger than me by eight years,” he said, eyes on the photo.

    “She went to buy flour to bake bread,” said her husband, his voice fading. “She was in line for an hour and a half,” came home, and pulled up in the car just as the bomb fell.

    Amid the death and rubble, Ukrainian teams hunt for evidence of possible war crimes

    Listen to article

    9 min

    By Sudarsan Raghavan Yesterday at 5:38 p.m. EST

    [More spam from you without any substance in the form of your personal opinion and commentary that can be debated. It’s the equivalent of posting YT clips saying ‘Wow! Listen to and watch this, because it’s so good’. This site is not a news aggregation site but a forum for robust debate. Your longwinded copy & pastes add next to nothing to robust debate here.

    If you have something important to say that cannot be said in a succinct comment then submit a Guest Post rather than hijacking somebody else’s Post here. If you want a personal sandpit to play in and/or a personal notice board to stick your preferred propaganda on then start your own blog site.

    State your case succinctly, supported by salient text & link(s), and argue the pros & cons with others. It probably takes Moderators more time to delete your long copy & pastes and leave a Mod note than for you to copy & paste them here, so it might be better for you to avoid wasting their time – Incognito]

    • Incognito 37.1
      8 March 2022 at 8:44 am

      Mod note for you.

    • Hongi Ika 37.2
      8 March 2022 at 9:13 am

      This stuff is described as "War Pornography" it's going crazy in the USA at present with the current Ukrainian Conflict.

      • Jenny How to get there 37.2.1
        8 March 2022 at 11:09 am

        Sometimes you have to rub the wilfully ignorant noses of the apologists for Russian imperialism into the results of the fascist terror they are supporting.

        Destruction of Kharkiv Ukraine – YouTube

        • weka 37.2.1.1
          8 March 2022 at 11:19 am

          read Incognito's mod note carefully, including the bit about wasting mod time. It's only been five days since I had to point this out to you. You now have two mods watching your comments and I expect an educational ban soon. Count this conversation today as a warning.

  38. Jenny How to get there 38
    8 March 2022 at 11:26 am

    Don't support fascism.

    It really shouldn't have to be said.

    Ukraine Russia war latest video updates Russian soldiers open fire on civilians – YouTube

  39. roblogic 39
    8 March 2022 at 3:03 pm

    "Special operation to de-Nazify Ukraine" is Putin-speak for indiscriminate killing of civilians in order to overthrow democratic leaders critical of Russia

    Thread 🧵

    https://twitter.com/dmytrogurinmp/status/1500919760942415880?s=21

  40. roblogic 40
    8 March 2022 at 3:07 pm

    Either we surround you & drop bombs on your head until you are all dead or we let your women & children out as long as they deliver themselves into our hands is the sort of offer one associates with a barbaric dark ages tyranny rather than a modern state.

    https://twitter.com/nancysinatra/status/1500980683014955012?s=21

    • Jenny how to get there 40.1
      9 March 2022 at 11:13 am

      Deliver your women and children into our hands to hold as hostages against you.

      Oppose us and they will suffer.

      Who are the real nazis?

  41. Jenny how to get there 41
    9 March 2022 at 11:37 am

    What first comes round as tragedy, returns as farce.

    Karl Marx

    While Putin dreams and schemes of a return to empire.

    In the real world the Russian advance becomes bogged down in a disorganised quagmire.

    Yes, Russian imperialism, it’s still a thing.

    De-nazifying the Ukraine as the reason for war?

    Is just as fake as removing Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq as the reason for that war.

    Never found.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/magazine/iraq-weapons-mass-destruction.html

    Or that other infamous lie. That Iraq had something to do with 9/11

    Just another imperial resource war and land grab, by revanchists dreaming of a return to empire.

  42. Jenny how to get there 42
    9 March 2022 at 12:05 pm

    Denazifying the Ukraine while there is state fascism in Russia is the height of hypocrisy.

    Russia arrests more protesters

    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/07/1084967986/russia-arrests-more-protesters

    Almost as vile and disgusting as the war crimes being committed by the Putin regime in Ukraine is the fascist treatment being meted out to Russian citizens opposed to the war.

    Thousands of people turned out in cities across Russia this weekend to protest the war in Ukraine, risking arrest in a country where such demonstrations are illegal. Many of them were detained and some subjected torture as a result, according to an independent Russian human rights group.

    Police detained more than 4,640 protesters in 65 Russian cities on Sunday, according to the monitoring group OVD-Info. It says more than 13,000 Russians in 147 cities have been detained at anti-war rallies since Russia first invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24.

    "At least 30 instances of protesters being beaten have been confirmed and it is likely that this number is much higher," it wrote in an update on Sunday. "There are many videos on social networks in which police officers are seen beating anti-war protesters."

    Russia will never take Ukraine.

    For this reason;
    The fascist oppression that is being visited on the Russian people by the Putin regime and that will be visited on the Ukrainian people under Russian occupation will be much worse. Ukrainians know in their bones that Putin’s rule of Ukraine will be ten times more oppressive and fascist than his rule in Russia.

  43. Jenny how to get there 43
    10 March 2022 at 12:14 pm

    Denazifying Ukraine

    WrittenBy: MIKE SMITH – Date published:8:51 pm, March 6th, 2022 – 125 comments
    Categories: uncategorized – Tags:

    One of Vladimir Putin’s objectives in the Russian incursion into Ukraine was to “denazify Ukraine.”…..

    …..Once Russia has succeeded however, the world will be a better place for it.

    Hi Mike, even if Putin's given rationale for the Russian "incursion" (invasion) of the Ukraine was genuine, (it isn't).

    You may believe the ends, (to "denazify Ukraine."), justifies the means. (bombing hospitals, flattening cities, shelling nuclear plants)

    You may even believe Mike, "the world will be a better place for it". But you are wrong.

    I will tell you why.

    There is another saying;

    "Rotten means, indicates rotten ends"

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