Duncan Garner and the great Christmas beatup

Written By: - Date published: 12:56 pm, November 30th, 2015 - 114 comments
Categories: journalism, the praiseworthy and the pitiful - Tags: , ,

Duncan Garner does good work sometimes, but is also capable of complete bollocks:

Duncan Garner: Let’s squash the PC race relations office and move on

I’d almost forgotten about the ludicrous decision to appoint a squash player as the country’s race relations commissioner – till Susan Devoy dropped another clanger.

And what a howler it was, throwing her (insignificant) weight behind Auckland Regional Migrants Services’ plan to ditch the word Christmas and refer instead to “happy holidays” and “season’s greetings”.

Apparently Devoy, the service’s patron, wants to save the majority of Kiwis (who are not Christian) from feeling excluded at this time of year. Good grief.

It’s time to ditch her role and the entire office she heads. …

Toby Manhire at The Spinoff does an excellent job at dissecting this nonsense:

On all that Susan-Devoy-Wants-to-Ban-Christmas Bullshit

Beat-ups about do-gooders wanting to “ban Christmas” have become a mainstay of the leadup to the festive season the world over. This year in New Zealand, the target is Susan Devoy, the Race Relations Commissioner, who caused outrage – outrage, I tell you! – by failing to condemn the Auckland Regional Migrant Services’ long-standing preference for the words “happy holidays” and “season’s greetings” over “Christmas”.

Duncan Garner was incandescent at this “trumped-up office pandering to political correctness”, this “crusade against Christmas“.

Garner was one of a number of fuming chimneys outraged – outraged, I tell you! – in print, on radio and online.

And yet what did Devoy actually, you know, say? She said nothing in the original report to discourage the use of “Christmas” and confirmed it was not banned at the Commission. She is quoted as saying: “New Zealanders don’t like being told what to do and we are mature enough to decide how to celebrate our special days in our own ways.” Which hardly seems all that controversial a thing to say in a secular country.

As if it wasn’t clear enough, Devoy explained in a piece published in the Herald two days before Garner’s column, “I have no plans to ban Christmas, not that I could, and it is not part of my job to tell anyone how to celebrate Christmas. I’ve never said we or anyone else should ban Christmas and I never would. What I did say is it’s up to everyday New Zealanders to decide how to observe Christmas. Kiwis hate being told what to do. I wouldn’t welcome anyone telling me what to do on December 25.” She concluded by saying – gasp! – “Merry Christmas and let there be peace on earth.”

I’m pretty sure Garner was just trolling for clicks, and knew exactly what he was doing, because there’s a certain amount of self-awareness in this tweet:

To which Scott Milne has the perfect reply:

114 comments on “Duncan Garner and the great Christmas beatup ”

  1. Tracey 1

    I was aghast when Devoy was appointed. Mostly because I had heard and seen her speak on a number of occasions at which she would behave inappropriately or criticize something for being too “PC”. However she is an example of what happens when people become educated on a topic they had lots of opinions about, but little actual knowledge. Well done her for moving from the place she was to the place she is today.

    Duncan’s turn. If he has the courage.

    • Daniel Cale 1.1

      I would add, Tracey, that ‘becoming educated’ is simply a left win term for ‘agreeing with the group think’. Devoy hasn’t become educated, she’s become indoctrinated.

      • tracey 1.1.1

        🙄

        Of course you would cos otherwise your comfy little place in the world would shift. As I wrote it I wondered how long before someone said brainwashed. And there you were. But tell me, which bit did she get “wrong”?

        • Daniel Cale 1.1.1.1

          Pretending that we should take into account the sensitivities of migrants. Pretending that we should apologise or be less than proud of our own culture and history.

          We should do neither. When I travel overseas I respect, in fact I celebrate, the foibles of the ‘local’ culture. That’s what makes them ‘comfy’ in their culture. We should be preserving what makes for ours.

          • Murray Simmonds 1.1.1.1.1

            Daniell Cale: ” . . . the foibles of the ‘local’ culture”.

            Just take a look in the mirror, Daniel to see the foibles of the local culture in action. You don’t need to travel overseas to see it. What a totally ignorant ethnocentric, self-satisfied statement! You wouldn’t be a national party voter by any chance would you?

            • Daniel Cale 1.1.1.1.1.1

              ‘Foibles’ are eccentricities. We all have them. Most countries are doing a good job at preserving them. Regrettably the west seems to be pandering to those whose cultures are so repressive they leave to join ours. Spot the irony?

          • DoublePlusGood 1.1.1.1.2

            The part of our culture and history that is vacuous appeals to our culture and history thinly disguising prejudice and bigotry is a part I can do without.

            • Daniel Cale 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Vacuous? Christmas? It’s a fun celebration, part of our culture for centuries.

              • DoublePlusGood

                The appeals to tradition (including the tradition of Christmas) being a mask for prejudice and bigotry is what I described as vacuous, not Christmas.
                Which you would have worked out if you had actually read the sentence carefully.

                • Daniel Cale

                  That’s NOT what you wrote at all. Your comment was in the context of a discussion about Christmas. The celebration of Christmas is neither prejudiced or bigoted, any more so that celebrating eid, hannukah, diwali, guy fawkes etc etc. Perhaps you are another looking for offence, prejudice and bigotry in every comment you disagree with.

                  • DoublePlusGood

                    Seriously just read my damn comment carefully before coming to some incorrect conclusion about what I wrote.

  2. Muttonbird 2

    Duncan Garner does good work sometimes

    – ANTHONY R0BINS

    Really?

    Garner is increasingly a tabloid scribbler and thinker as far as I’m concerned. He’s just what Manhire says, a manufacturer of outrage.

  3. Tc 3

    Garner shows yet again hes a shit stirring shock jock with ratings to boost.

    A proper journo with objective integrity would not perform a lazy dogwhistle like this but here we are with talkback trash being passed off as news.

  4. Tracey 4

    r0b – she wrote a reply to Duncan in yesterday’s SST. Am trying to find the link.

    here it is

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/74532649/duncan-garner-were-mad-for-peace-not-pc-gone-mad

    “Duncan – and others whose opinions are amplified across our television, radio and newspapers – must do better in showing responsible leadership in the national debate about race relations. They are opinion leaders and their opinions are powerful: dismissing anything they don’t like as PC gone mad is dumbing down a very important conversation New Zealanders need to have.”

    Hear Hear!

    • Muttonbird 4.2

      The key point she made is Garner = dumbing down, which is indicative of the way journalism is headed in this country. It’s a shame because the opposite should be true.

      • Tracey 4.2.1

        ALL people who brandish “PC…” as a substitute for an argument are dumbing down the discussion, and it has been goingon for years. Garner is a follower it his regard not a trend setter but in his position, as Devoy points out, it is a misuse of the power he has been given.

        • Sacha 4.2.1.1

          ‘Down with respect for other people’ #grrr

          • tracey 4.2.1.1.1

            I agree. When people do the PC thing to me, I ask them to repharse and instead of PC use – respect for others _…

            • Anno1701 4.2.1.1.1.1

              “Political correctness” doesn’t exist. The only place you will ever hear the term used is in the right wing media. It’s never the basis for decision making, it never appears in law. Nothing.

              “Political correctness” is a right-wing buzzword for social skills they would like to be able to get by without having, And of course some people just get sad because society will disapprove when they say shitty things in public

  5. Daniel Cale 5

    Christmas is a part of the history and culture of NZ. If migrants are offended by it (which, btw I doubt very much), then they need to get a life. Devoy is a huge disappointment, having become a slave to the notion that everyones culture has value except ours. Well done Duncan.

    • tracey 5.1

      ““New Zealanders don’t like being told what to do and we are mature enough to decide how to celebrate our special days in our own ways.”

      ““I have no plans to ban Christmas, not that I could, and it is not part of my job to tell anyone how to celebrate Christmas. I’ve never said we or anyone else should ban Christmas and I never would. What I did say is it’s up to everyday New Zealanders to decide how to observe Christmas. Kiwis hate being told what to do. I wouldn’t welcome anyone telling me what to do on December 25.” She concluded by saying – gasp! – “Merry Christmas and let there be peace on earth.”

      Reading is a skill Daniel. If you have a reading difficulty I am sorry and apologise but it seems to me that the part of the reading skill-set that you lack, is reading beyond the bit that you mirrors your small minded world view back to you and reading to the end. Oh and clicking the links and reading them. So less a problem with making out words and phrases but actually bothering to read them at all..

      • Ross 5.1.1

        She said the Trust’s language was about inclusion, not exclusion. So I presume she suggested to them that they include the word Christmas! 🙂

        Alas, that isn’t what her press release says.

      • Daniel Cale 5.1.2

        You underestimate me. I read her statement very carefully, and it is spoken with a forked tongue. In her capacity as Patron of Auckland Migrant Services she is proposing ceasing to use the term “Christmas’. This isn’t not using the term, it is ceasing to use the term. This is a betrayal of our culture, of our history. That’s why there has been an outcry, not because of Duncan Garner.

        • tracey 5.1.2.1

          WASPMs forever aye Daniel, you must hate the PM wanting to change the flag and throw aay all that WASPM hisotry of yours?

          • Daniel Cale 5.1.2.1.1

            “WASP’s”??? Are you seriously trying to make this a racial issue now? This is about NZ’s history and culture. What’s wrong with preserving Christmas? The Chinese came and accepted it. The Phillipino’s. The Vietnamese. The Cambodians. For goodness sake the event celebrates the birth of a middle eastern man in the west bank who grew up in what is now called the ‘Arab capital of Israel’!

            • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2.1.1.1

              This is about NZ’s history and culture.

              Culture lives, breaths and changes as it does so. To try to keep it the same is to kill it.

              What’s wrong with preserving Christmas?

              Because it’s all a load of BS.

              • Daniel Cale

                “Culture lives, breaths and changes as it does so. To try to keep it the same is to kill it.”

                Nonsense. Culture (and you will note I also mentioned history) can change, but it can also be preserved.

                “Because it’s all a load of BS.”

                To you, perhaps. So don’t celebrate it. Turn yourself into scrooge for a day, but leave the rest of us alone.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Culture (and you will note I also mentioned history) can change, but it can also be preserved.

                  No, it really can’t. You may want to believe otherwise but that’s all it is – your belief and not associated in any way with reality.

                  So don’t celebrate it. Turn yourself into scrooge for a day, but leave the rest of us alone.

                  I don’t do Xmas but I do go out and see family and you really should note that those who do celebrate Xmas in NZ now make up less than 50% of the population so you’re massively exaggerating when you say “the rest of us”.

    • Muttonbird 5.2

      Daniel Cale is the dumbed down bit of New Zealand which Garner appeals to.

      • Grindlebottom 5.2.1

        Not on this point he’s not. It’s a valid viewpoint that ARMS shouldn’t be discouraging references to Christmas and Easter.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1.1

          Possibly, and that isn’t poor Daniel’s position: he’s whinging about something Susan Devoy didn’t say.

          • tracey 5.2.1.1.1

            This ^^^^^

          • Daniel Cale 5.2.1.1.2

            No, I’m not. I’m supporting what Duncan Garner wrote.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1.1.2.1

              By whinging about something Susan Devoy didn’t say. Whinging and whinging and whinging.

              • Daniel Cale

                No, I’m responding to precisely what Devoy DID say, and has affirmed in her statement released since the comments.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  a slave to the notion that everyones culture has value except ours

                  1. Your “culture”: racist wingnut prejudice, has no value. In fact it has negative value.

                  2. European culture respects and defends human rights. You have no claim over it.

                  3. Devoy didn’t say that, I did.

                  • Daniel Cale

                    1. You have no idea what my culture is.
                    2. Yes, and in that it is actually fairly unique. Try going to an Islamic theocracy and feigning offence at Ramadan.

                    • Muttonbird

                      1. You have no idea what my culture is.

                      -Daniel CaleNeither do you but the looks of it. NZ is all White Christmas to you.

        • Pascals bookie 5.2.1.2

          How are they “discouraging references to Christmas and Easter”?

          they are just choosing not to reference them for their own do, and Garner, Yardley , DPF and various other assorted bods have gotten all Fox News ‘War on Christmea’ about it.

          But what are they actually arguing? That people ‘have’ to say ‘Christmas’? Even if they don’t want to becausd eotherwise they might offend talkback people or whoever?

          What the hell sort of PC gone mad is that?

          • tracey 5.2.1.2.1

            The kind the Right Support.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.2.1.1

              +1

              The right-wing are all into telling everyone else how to live their lives.

          • Daniel Cale 5.2.1.2.2

            “How are they “discouraging references to Christmas and Easter”?”

            By removing those references from the event. Isn’t that obvious?

            • Pascals bookie 5.2.1.2.2.1

              So if I don’t do something, am I discouraging you from doing it?

              I mean, would a ‘fesitivus dinner’ discourage a ‘christmas dinner’, or are they just different people doing what they want?

              You seem to be saying that everyone must name events at this time of year as Christmas events, even if they’d rather not, lest they discourage other people from having named Christmas events. Even though no one is saying you can’t have a named Christmas event if that’s what you want to do.

              Is that really what you are saying? Because if so, then it’s you who is telling people what they can and can’t do. That’s obvious isn’t it?

              • Daniel Cale

                “So if I don’t do something, am I discouraging you from doing it?”

                If you did do it, then told people to stop doing it, then yes.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.3

      No, Daniel, in fact, the bogeyman that so terrifies you doesn’t actually exist.

      As Tracey says, if you possessed reading skills you’d know that. Do you get paid to make right wingers look illiterate?

      • McFlock 5.3.1

        butbutbut CHRISTMAS IS UNDER ATTTAAACCKK!!!!!!!!!!

      • Daniel Cale 5.3.2

        There is no bogeyman. Just a race relations conciliator who has decided to remove reference to a part of our history and culture. Like someone proposing we stop referencing ANZAC day because it might offend the Turks. Or VE day for the sake of the Germans.

        • tracey 5.3.2.1

          And you have not understood Ms Devoy’s own words, choosing Mr Garner’s spin on them, which was my point above. Someoen seeking to remove Christmas from the vocab wouldn’t sign off wishing people a Merry Christmas. .

          To aid you further

          http://thestandard.org.nz/duncan-garner-and-the-great-christmas-beatup/#comment-1102870

          • Daniel Cale 5.3.2.1.1

            “Someoen seeking to remove Christmas from the vocab wouldn’t sign off wishing people a Merry Christmas. .”

            Don’t be absurd. Devoy is stung by the reaction and is back-peddling. Besides, I never claimed Devoy is seeking to “remove Christmas form the vocab”. She’s just removing it from this particularly celebration to pander to some invented offence that may be taken by immigrants who I’d bet probably wouldn’t take any offence.

            • tracey 5.3.2.1.1.1

              Given your disdain expressed for immigrants earlier, what makes you think you are in any position to “bet” what they would or what not take offence to? Look at how offended and affronted you are at having your christian festival threatened (even when it is not)?

              • Daniel Cale

                I have not expressed any disdain for immigrants, in fact I value them greatly. What I despise is this white liberal guilt people like Devoy have been sucked in to. Te migrants I know have come to NZ for a better life, INCLUDING our history and culture and the freedoms we have to exercise our beliefs and celebrate our traditions. Do you not see we rob them of that experience each time we pander to weak minded people like Devoy.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.3.2.1.1.2

              She’s just removing it from this particularly celebration.

              Stop lying: you don’t get to celebrate liar culture Daniel.

              The lunch you refer to has always been called a festive lunch.

              Arms works hard to include peoples from all faiths to work together in peace and diversity,

              Arms uses language that will encompass and include everyone; it is not designed to exclude anyone.

              New Zealanders don’t like being told what to do and we are mature enough to decide how to celebrate our special days in our own ways.

              What part of the word “always” are you illiterate about, Daniel?

              • tracey

                Well Duncan triggered his zenophobia, and no matte rhow much he has proven to be wrong, he just can’t bring himself to back down in the face of being made to look foolish by Garner.

                25 Dec 2015 is the day of the Celebration of Christmas. The whole month of December is not a Christian Christma sFestival. It has become a focus as retailers realised they could make bucks. I note you are not outraged at your religious day being hijacked for money making purposes (money changers tables and all that Daniel).

              • Daniel Cale

                Thanks OAB. You’re quote precisely supports my point. Unless you are harbouring under the illusion that wishing someone happy Christmas is somehow “designed to exclude” someone. LOL.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  No, you witless illiterate fuck-knuckle: it is perfectly clear whose policy this is and it isn’t Devoy’s, as you claimed, you lying racist sack of shit.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.3.2.2

          Answer the question: do you take money to make wingnuts look illiterate?

    • North 5.4

      You’re really determined to proceed like fool in the face of the very best of evidence aren’t you Daniel Cale ? Devoy’s own, exact, words. But NO ! Devoy said something completely different. YES ! She did ! She Did !

      Now that is weird.

      • tracey 5.4.1

        And Duncan Garner said she said something completely different, and I support him and even when I see that she didnt say what Duncans said she said, cos I told Tracey I read it very carefully, I still support Duncan cos he was attacking something I don’t like and so on and so forth and heretowtih what Duncan said.

      • Daniel Cale 5.4.2

        Because you seem to just be repeating comments made elsewhere, I will say this one more time. Devoy has recomended and defended the removal of references to Christmas from an event run by an organisation of whom she is the patron. This has been done on the basis that those references may make migrants feel uncomfortable. My objection is simple. If we are to remove references that make migrants uncomfortable, then we risk fundamentally changing the society migrants so desperately want to join. When will you realise the irony of that?

        • lprent 5.4.2.1

          Oh FFS. Most of the population are quite secular, including me.

          Christmas sucks these days. All it means is that we wind up getting hot and bothered doing some shopping and then have some time with some bits of our extended families. Oh and work shuts down for enough days to have some time off without using too much holiday days. It is more of drag than a tradition. The sooner it gets knocked on the head the better.

          I have no idea what “tradition” is involved in that. Basically you read like a religious nutter trying to impose some ideas on me. Are you a Morman missionary?

        • tracey 5.4.2.2

          “The Auckland Regional Migrants Services Trust prefers non-religious, secular language when inviting communities to attend some of their events because they don’t want non-Christians to think they aren’t included in the invitation. Their choice of language is about inclusion not exclusion.” Susan Devoy

          “My objection is simple. If we are to remove references that make migrants uncomfortable, then we risk fundamentally changing the society migrants so desperately want to join. When will you realise the irony of that?” Daniel Cale

          IT IS A MIGRANT SERVICE! Their role is to assist MIGRANTS. Ergo they need to make sure that they encourage people to attend their events to assure their assimilation into society in such a way as to make people like you feel comfortable having migrants amidst your WASPM sensibilities. It is Duncan Garner and YOU who has extrapolated that very specific statement to mean Christmas must begone from every part of NZ.

          some invented offence that may be taken by immigrants who I’d bet probably wouldn’t take any offence. Daniel Cale

          Yeah a woman involved in providing services to migrants knows less about what might discouraged migrants from attending an event than, say, a guy who has no understanding of migrant needs and apears to think that if they come here they must just instantly adopt everything he holds dear or fuck off.

          • Daniel Cale 5.4.2.2.1

            “IT IS A MIGRANT SERVICE! Their role is to assist MIGRANTS. ”

            Precisely! Which is why we should not be changing the language of an event we have celebrated for centuries. It isn’t the migrants asking for this, it is pasty white liberals.

            “and apears to think that if they come here they must just instantly adopt everything he holds dear or fuck off.”

            When did I say that? I’m not asking migrants to adapt, just to respect our traditions, in the same way I respect other cultures traditions.

    • Paul Campbell 5.5

      With christians now a minority within NZ, requiring everyone to celebrate christian holidays seems such a quaint old fashioned idea.

      In our house we celebrate xmas, the capitalist holiday of buying stuff for other people, we’ve tied a $20 to the top of the tree since the kids were little

      • Grindlebottom 5.5.1

        we’ve tied a $20 to the top of the tree since the kids were little

        Safety hazard?

  6. Ross 6

    What Devoy did say was “The Auckland Regional Migrants Services Trust prefers non-religious, secular language when inviting communities to attend some of their events because they don’t want non-Christians to think they aren’t included in the invitation. Their choice of language is about inclusion not exclusion.”

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1511/S00386/an-open-letter-to-new-zealanders-christmas-is-still-on.htm

    So will the Auckland Regional Migrants Services Trust be talking about Christmas or not? There’s nothing in the above, or in the link, to say that the Trust are embracing Christmas, which indicates the word might be off limits.

    What Devoy could have said to the Trust is that use of the word Christmas need not be avoided.

    • Hanswurst 6.1

      Christmas is part of the holiday season, therefore “happy holidays” and “season’s greetings” include good wishes for anybody celebrating Christmas. Therefore you are wrong.

  7. Grindlebottom 7

    I was curious whether the Auckland Regional Migrant Service avoided the use of other religions’ Anniversary or Feast Day names as well. Google brought up this item from Dr Mary Dawson, CEO of the ARMS Trust:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11550676

    For any cultural or religious celebration, whether Christmas, Diwali, Eid or Matariki, our multicultural staff use appropriate greetings and celebrate, for example, by bringing Diwali sweets to share, or handing out chocolate eggs at Easter.

    They kind of imply that they have an all-embracing policy, though why refer to “Diwali sweets”, but then “chocolate eggs” when the normal term is Easter eggs? I have a sneaking suspicion “Christmas” and “Easter” are more determinedly discouraged at ARMS than references to “Diwali”, “Eid”, “Matariki” etc.

    I can’t help wondering whose idea it was at ARMS to drop references to Christmas and Easter. I’d bet the refugees themselves didn’t have a problem with it; they have to eventually settle into a community where even secular atheists like myself normally use these terms and follow the customary practices of holidays, gift-giving and Christian good wishes such as Merry or Happy Christmas. I have no problem with Ramadan/Eid or Diwali, or Matariki: why should ARMS assume observers of these religious festivals might have a problem with Xmas?

    Garner’s mucked up though. He’d have been best to let this one go and not blow it up.

    • Ross 7.1

      Our multicultural staff use “appropriate” greetings? That implies that Merry Christmas might not be appropriate for some. How does ARMS know if saying Merry Christmas to a migrant is appropriate ?

      • Daniel Cale 7.1.1

        It shouldn’t matter. We should not be determining what parts of our history and culture we maintain because of the sensibilities of immigrants. No other culture does.

        • tracey 7.1.1.1

          Thank God the Maori didn’t think that way aye Daniel, to your ancestors and mine, who were (cough) immigrants.

          • Daniel Cale 7.1.1.1.1

            They DID think that way Tracey. They killed and ate our ancestors. But they were also very smart, and adopted some of the new customs, while preserving their own. Bizzarely you have made my point.

        • Rawsharkosaurus 7.1.1.2

          It is ironic that you are expressing that sentiment in an immigrant language, English, and not an indigenous language of this country.

    • North 7.2

      Persuasive argument there GBottom. Enjoyed the last bit. “Garner’s mucked up though……..”. Certainly deserves to.

      Daniel Cale and mate Garner are the only buggers screaming about this thing.

      This is not a drama. Specially not I’m sure to the people it touchs. That’s why he’s gonna look a dick. S’pose it could be whipped up into one though. Drama I mean.

      No……that’d require the attendance of a man who would do that. Drama I mean. The Good Garner wouldn’t do that. Drama I mean.

  8. Ross 8

    This is the same Susan Devoy that said Labour were racist to use Chinese sounding names to assess house buying behaviour in Auckland, and she also complained about some cartoons a year ago. She said they offended her (though she admitted they weren’t racist). I don’t care whether she is offended or not. Taking offence isn’t in her job description.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70854977/labour-says-devoy-out-of-line-for-calling-it-racist-over-chinese-buyers

  9. Muttonbird 9

    Look at all the right wingers desperately trying to take offence at something which isn’t there, gleefully taking the rancid bait which Garner dropped.

  10. Morrissey 10

    A decade or so ago that dunderhead Bill O’Reilly was saying the same things as that dunderhead Duncan Garner. David Letterman took the opportunity to tell O’Reilly that he thought most of what he (O’Reilly) says is “crap”….

    http://mediamatters.org/research/2006/01/04/in-letterman-appearance-oreilly-repeated-false/134554

  11. millsy 11

    Christmas has so much parts of it burrowed from all sorts of faiths and religions anyway. It is completely bastardised.

    I am not offended when someone says “Happy Holidays” or ‘Merry Christmas’. Some of just like like to have fun and enjoy the season.

  12. Daniel Cale 12

    There is an element of this debate that is being overlooked, and that is why we even need a Race Relations Conciliator. Or a Human Rights Commission. Or a Ministry of Womens Affairs. Or…well you get the idea. These are all just organisations of privilege. And as I pay for a portion of all of the above, and yet am not represented by a single one, I say destroy them all and save some money. I know, get rid of the lot and donate the savings to the Sallies.

    • tracey 12.1

      It’s because of people like you Daniel that we need them. You couldn’t have displayed the need for them more.

      I note you chose a Christian organisation to give all our money to.

      • Daniel Cale 12.1.1

        I’m not the one to have invoked a racial connection, you are. But I’d be happy for the funds to go to another charity if you don’t think the sallies are worthy. Except Greenpeace, Amnesty Intl and a few other fellow travellers.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2

      Destroy you first. Capice?

    • DoublePlusGood 12.3

      You mean the hateful, homophobic Salvation Army? No thanks. It is because of the behaviour of groups like them and other bigots that we need these government organisations and quangos.

  13. Vaughan Little 13

    I don’t get liberal sensitivities in a major way.

    it’s so easy to piss people off and I never see it coming. people throw the term “white male” around like it’s a term of abuse that’s gonna put,me back in my place. I copped some pretty nasty comments on facebook once; was a key decider for me to stop posting comments there. stuff about “go back to the 50s and beat up your wife” from memory. also dissing of Christians, all of which I see permutations of above.

    anyone know any good guides to understanding liberal dudgeon? I’ve done some poking around and the guy it all seems to go back to, far as I can tell, is Foucault. not that he was very angry, but he tended to see everything as a power struggle. ergo, “white” dudes can only oppress. I hear the name of Stuart Hall too but haven’t looked into him.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      The only people I see getting pissed off here are wingnut trolls, bleating about something that doesn’t exist. The relentless whining about “political correctness” (shorthand for “I am too lazy and stupid to address the issue”) renders any “liberal” complaint inaudible.

      Why are wingnut trolls so thin-skinned that any criticism of their behaviour is met with such a querulous chorous?

    • tracey 13.2

      I typed a response and deleted it.

      Second try

      Some people who you didnt know, and didnt ever have to meet wrote some nasty stuff on a Facebook page about you. Sorry to hear it. No one likes to be bilittled or abused for being how they were born.

      Now, imagine how what you felt feels when it is in your company, your workplace, your social life and prevents you directly or insidioulsy from achieving the things you want in life. When it is done to your face or prevents you getting a job or a promition or a flat for your family…

      • Daniel Cale 13.2.1

        Happens to almost everyone, Tracey. Most of us build a bridge…

        • DoublePlusGood 13.2.1.1

          Many of us don’t get to build a bridge. And when we try bridge-building, people like you pull the bridge down.

          • Daniel Cale 13.2.1.1.1

            There is never any reason not to build a bridge, other than self indulgence.

            • DoublePlusGood 13.2.1.1.1.1

              So racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and other prejudice doesn’t exist then?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.1.1.2

              It’s a one-way bridge. Or I am reminded of Kosovo, where residents of a town “kept to their side” of the bridge. And shot anyone who made it to the middle.

              Slow clap. Imagine it. Danny decides he likes people who are like Danny. He rejects the other. He contracts a sexually transmitted disease: limited exposure to outgroups. Slow clap.

    • Daniel Cale 13.3

      You’re right, of course. But chin up. Being a white, heterosexual male is fantastic! We might not have the new privilege that comes from being brown, gay and female, but let’s celebrate diversity! Unless of course that diversity includes white, hetero males.

      • Muttonbird 13.3.1

        Your comment makes you seem rather insecure and intolerant which ironically is the sort of behaviour you pretend to argue against.

      • DoublePlusGood 13.3.2

        Please feel free to tell us all the ways someone who is brown, gay and female is privileged in our society…

        • Daniel Cale 13.3.2.1

          You need to be told? At the risk of being told off for some kind of ‘ism’ or ‘phobia’, I’ll name just one: The Independent Maori Statutory Board. Unelected. Unaccountable. Unnecessary. Great work, but only if you’re Maori.

          • DoublePlusGood 13.3.2.1.1

            You mean the board appointed to represent the interests of Māori, who are structurally discriminated against, yet have traditional claims under the Treaty of Waitangi to significant parts of Auckland?
            Seems to me like that’s the sort of group that absolutely needs representation, for both legal and social development reasons. I do think that it could be elected with votes from people registered with an iwi or urban Māori authority who live in the region. The board would then be at least democratically accountable.
            If I were you I would be much more concerned about the unelected, unaccountable Council Controlled Organisations that run the finances of Auckland, like ATEED, than a Māori advisory board.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.2.1.2

            Daniel, I doubt you are arguing in good faith, and if you are, you’ll have no choice but to note the outcomes for various groups within New Zealand.

            If despite the odds you are arguing in good faith, your recognition (which is obvious to all but you) that you feel superior and privileged is what marks you as a blithering idiot.

            If you aren’t providing evidence in support of Hodson & Busseri’s dubious conclusions, you’re defending bias with mendacity. Slow clap.

  14. Vaughan Little 14

    these dismal little chats we have…

    the secular state can never guarantee freedom of religion. what it does is pushes the agenda of freedom from religion. Of Course a senior government spokeswoman supports “neutral” language. this is just another step in the attempted long eradication of Christianity from the public life of the nation. some commenters above have taken a far more admirable position than devoy’s essentially dishonest one: get rid of Christmas altogether as a public holiday. fits with my mood, perhaps a bit stingy, that if liberals hate us so much, why the hell should they be able to enjoy our holidays and customs? why should our churches be open for their weddings? why should their bloodthirsty nations be strengthened by institutions of public education and public healthcare that were the product of the church’s response to Christ’s message anyway.

    and if we took it all back underground again, would that have any effect on the future of liberalism, that late cheap toxic rip off of the Christian message?

    neutral language – go the whole way and remove the word democracy from public discourse since so many migrants come from countries (and got pretty rich in them) where democracy was anathema. ban anything about Islam on tv since lots so contentious a topic these days. quietly drop the word “india” from the newspapers as a sign of support for neutrality over jammu and kashmir. remove the British flag because of the maoris, remove the maoris because of the racists.

    what case can be made for neutrality that is not hateful?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1

      The “Christian” message is itself “ripped off”. Pretending ownership of it doesn’t seem very Christian to me. Bearing false witness much?

  15. vaughan little 15

    “The “Christian” message is itself “ripped off”. Pretending ownership of it doesn’t seem very Christian to me. Bearing false witness much?”

    it aint a rip off if you acknowledge your sources and show your working.

    it’s inane comments like yours which confirm my belief that christians need to start responding in an organized, thoughtful way with the kulturkampf against us, rather than just grimacingly going along with it.

    -suppression of the use of christian words in the public domain
    -suppression of biblical knowledge the schools, even though the bible is history’s most important book
    -miseducation around christianity – that it’s somehow more violent that liberalism (!!) or anti science (!!!)

    today i’m going to teach a bunch of poor kids for way lower pay than i could get if my goal was to maxamise my earning potential. then on friday i’m off to make sure some other kids wash whose parents are too poor to raise them. of course it’s not just me, there are other christians going with me. christianity IS good news for the poor. THAT’S what you want to suppress.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      Are you talking about Lord Krisna’s virgin birth or Lao Tzu’s humanist values? By the way, the “ripped off” accusation is yours: I don’t see it that way. Witch-doctors co-opt humanist values to render their mumbo-pocus more palatable.

      Please note that I’m not denying that mumbo-pocus can be a force for good: it’s just when its exponents start claiming the moral high ground that I feel obliged to cut your ankles off.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Major investment in teacher supply through Budget 24
    Over the next four years, Budget 24 will support the training and recruitment of 1,500 teachers into the workforce, Education Minister Erica Stanford announced today. “To raise achievement and develop a world leading education system we’re investing nearly $53 million over four years to attract, train and retain our valued ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Joint statement on the New Zealand – Cook Islands Joint Ministerial Forum – 2024
    1.  New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Rt Hon Winston Peters; Minister of Health and Minister for Pacific Peoples Hon Dr Shane Reti; and Minister for Climate Change Hon Simon Watts hosted Cook Islands Minister of Foreign Affairs and Immigration Hon Tingika Elikana and Minister of Health Hon Vainetutai Rose Toki-Brown on 24 May ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Middle East, Africa deployments extended
    The Government has approved two-year extensions for four New Zealand Defence Force deployments to the Middle East and Africa, Defence Minister Judith Collins and Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “These deployments are long-standing New Zealand commitments, which reflect our ongoing interest in promoting peace and stability, and making active ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change Commission Chair to retire
    The Climate Change Commission Chair, Dr Rod Carr, has confirmed his plans to retire at the end of his term later this year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Prior to the election, Dr Carr advised me he would be retiring when his term concluded. Dr Rod Carr has led ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Inaugural Board of Integrity Sport & Recreation Commission announced
    Nine highly respected experts have been appointed to the inaugural board of the new Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission, Sport & Recreation Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Integrity Sport and Recreation Commission is a new independent Crown entity which was established under the Integrity Sport and Recreation Act last year, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • A balanced Foreign Affairs budget
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters confirmed today that Vote Foreign Affairs in Budget 2024 will balance two crucial priorities of the Coalition Government.    While Budget 2024 reflects the constrained fiscal environment, the Government also recognises the critical role MFAT plays in keeping New Zealanders safe and prosperous.    “Consistent with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New social housing places to support families into homes
    New social housing funding in Budget 2024 will ensure the Government can continue supporting more families into warm, dry homes from July 2025, Housing Ministers Chris Bishop and Tama Potaka say. “Earlier this week I was proud to announce that Budget 2024 allocates $140 million to fund 1,500 new social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand’s minerals future
    Introduction Today, we are sharing a red-letter occasion. A Blackball event on hallowed ground. Today  we underscore the importance of our mineral estate. A reminder that our natural resource sector has much to offer.  Such a contribution will not come to pass without investment.  However, more than money is needed. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government sets out vision for minerals future
    Increasing national and regional prosperity, providing the minerals needed for new technology and the clean energy transition, and doubling the value of minerals exports are the bold aims of the Government’s vision for the minerals sector. Resources Minister Shane Jones today launched a draft strategy for the minerals sector in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government progresses Māori wards legislation
    The coalition Government’s legislation to restore the rights of communities to determine whether to introduce Māori wards has passed its first reading in Parliament, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says. “Divisive changes introduced by the previous government denied local communities the ability to determine whether to establish Māori wards.” The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • First RMA amendment Bill introduced to Parliament
    The coalition Government has today introduced legislation to slash the tangle of red and green tape throttling some of New Zealand’s key sectors, including farming, mining and other primary industries. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop says the Government is committed to  unlocking development and investment while ensuring the environment is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government welcomes EPA decision
    The decision by Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) to approve the continued use of hydrogen cyanamide, known as Hi-Cane, has been welcomed by Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay.  “The EPA decision introduces appropriate environmental safeguards which will allow kiwifruit and other growers to use Hi-Cane responsibly,” Ms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to Employers and Manufacturers Association: Relief for today, hope for tomorrow
    Kia ora, Ngā mihi nui ki a koutou kātoa Tāmaki Herenga Waka, Tāmaki Herenga tangata Ngā mihi ki ngā mana whenua o tēnei rohe Ngāti Whātua ō Ōrākei me nga iwi kātoa kua tae mai. Mauriora. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the EMA for hosting this event. Let me acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government invests in 1,500 more social homes
    The coalition Government is investing in social housing for New Zealanders who are most in need of a warm dry home, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. Budget 2024 will allocate $140 million in new funding for 1,500 new social housing places to be provided by Community Housing Providers (CHPs), not ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • $24 million boost for Gumboot Friday
    Thousands more young New Zealanders will have better access to mental health services as the Government delivers on its commitment to fund the Gumboot Friday initiative, says Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey.  “Budget 2024 will provide $24 million over four years to contract the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill passes first reading
    The Coalition Government’s Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill, which will improve tenancy laws and help increase the supply of rental properties, has passed its first reading in Parliament says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The Bill proposes much-needed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 that will remove barriers to increasing private ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Montecassino Commemorative Address, Cassino War Cemetery
    Standing here in Cassino War Cemetery, among the graves looking up at the beautiful Abbey of Montecassino, it is hard to imagine the utter devastation left behind by the battles which ended here in May 1944. Hundreds of thousands of shells and bombs of every description left nothing but piled ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • First Reading – Repeal of Section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989
    I present a legislative statement on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill Mr. Speaker, I move that the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the Bill. Thank you, Mr. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • First reading of 7AA’s repeal: progress for children
    The Bill to repeal Section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act has had its first reading in Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Coalition Government’s commitment to the care and safety of children in care, says Minister for Children Karen Chhour.  “When I became the Minister for Children, I made ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Business Summit 2024
    Kia ora koutou, good morning, and zao shang hao. Thank you Fran for the opportunity to speak at the 2024 China Business Summit – it’s great to be here today. I’d also like to acknowledge: Simon Bridges - CEO of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce. His Excellency Ambassador - Wang ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Assisted depatures from New Caledonia
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed a New Zealand Government plane will head to New Caledonia in the next hour in the first in a series of proposed flights to begin bringing New Zealanders home.    “New Zealanders in New Caledonia have faced a challenging few days - and bringing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Assisted departures from New Caledonia
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed a New Zealand Government plane will head to New Caledonia in the next hour in the first in a series of proposed flights to begin bringing New Zealanders home.  “New Zealanders in New Caledonia have faced a challenging few days - and bringing them ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government to rollout roadside drug testing
    The Coalition Government will introduce legislation this year that will enable roadside drug testing as part of our commitment to improve road safety and restore law and order, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Alcohol and drugs are the number one contributing factor in fatal road crashes in New Zealand. In ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Minister responds to review of Kāinga Ora
    The Government has announced a series of immediate actions in response to the independent review of Kāinga Ora – Homes and Communities, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “Kāinga Ora is a large and important Crown entity, with assets of $45 billion and over $2.5 billion of expenditure each year. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour is pleased that Pseudoephedrine can now be purchased by the general public to protect them from winter illness, after the coalition government worked swiftly to change the law and oversaw a fast approval process by Medsafe. “Pharmacies are now putting the medicines back on their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand-China Business Summit
    Tēnā koutou katoa. Da jia hao.  Good morning everyone.   Prime Minister Luxon, your excellency, a great friend of New Zealand and my friend Ambassador Wang, Mayor of what he tells me is the best city in New Zealand, Wayne Brown, the highly respected Fran O’Sullivan, Champion of the Auckland business ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New measures to protect powerlines from trees
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced that the Government will make it easier for lines firms to take action to remove vegetation from obstructing local powerlines. The change will ensure greater security of electricity supply in local communities, particularly during severe weather events.  “Trees or parts of trees falling on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Wairarapa Moana ki Pouakani win top Māori dairy farming award
    Wairarapa Moana ki Pouakani were the top winners at this year’s Ahuwhenua Trophy awards recognising the best in Māori dairy farming. Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka announced the winners and congratulated runners-up, Whakatōhea Māori Trust Board, at an awards celebration also attended by Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Finance Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • DJ Fred Again – Assurance report received
    "On the 27th of March, I sought assurances from the Chief Executive, Department of Internal Affairs, that the Department’s correct processes and policies had been followed in regards to a passport application which received media attention,” says Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden.  “I raised my concerns after being ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • District Court Judges appointed
    Attorney-General Judith Collins has announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges, to replace Judges who have recently retired. Peter James Davey of Auckland has been appointed a District Court Judge with a jury jurisdiction to be based at Whangarei. Mr Davey initially started work as a law clerk/solicitor with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Unions should put learning ahead of ideology
    Associate Education Minister David Seymour is calling on the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) to put ideology to the side and focus on students’ learning, in reaction to the union holding paid teacher meetings across New Zealand about charter schools.     “The PPTA is disrupting schools up and down the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Craig Stobo appointed as chair of FMA
    Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly today announced the appointment of Craig Stobo as the new chair of the Financial Markets Authority (FMA). Mr Stobo takes over from Mark Todd, whose term expired at the end of April. Mr Stobo’s appointment is for a five-year term. “The FMA plays ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Budget 2024 invests in lifeguards and coastguard
    Surf Life Saving New Zealand and Coastguard New Zealand will continue to be able to keep people safe in, on, and around the water following a funding boost of $63.644 million over four years, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Associate Transport Minister Matt Doocey say. “Heading to the beach for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand and Tuvalu reaffirm close relationship
    New Zealand and Tuvalu have reaffirmed their close relationship, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says.  “New Zealand is committed to working with Tuvalu on a shared vision of resilience, prosperity and security, in close concert with Australia,” says Mr Peters, who last visited Tuvalu in 2019.  “It is my pleasure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand calls for calm, constructive dialogue in New Caledonia
    New Zealand is gravely concerned about the situation in New Caledonia, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.  “The escalating situation and violent protests in Nouméa are of serious concern across the Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.  “The immediate priority must be for all sides to take steps to de-escalate the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand welcomes Samoa Head of State
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon met today with Samoa’s O le Ao o le Malo, Afioga Tuimalealiifano Vaaletoa Sualauvi II, who is making a State Visit to New Zealand. “His Highness and I reflected on our two countries’ extensive community links, with Samoan–New Zealanders contributing to all areas of our national ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Island Direct eligible for SuperGold Card funding
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has announced that he has approved Waiheke Island ferry operator Island Direct to be eligible for SuperGold Card funding, paving the way for a commercial agreement to bring the operator into the scheme. “Island Direct started operating in November 2023, offering an additional option for people ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further sanctions against Russia
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today announced further sanctions on 28 individuals and 14 entities providing military and strategic support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.  “Russia is directly supported by its military-industrial complex in its illegal aggression against Ukraine, attacking its sovereignty and territorial integrity. New Zealand condemns all entities and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • One year on from Loafers Lodge
    A year on from the tragedy at Loafers Lodge, the Government is working hard to improve building fire safety, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “I want to share my sincere condolences with the families and friends of the victims on the anniversary of the tragic fire at Loafers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Pre-Budget speech to Auckland Business Chamber
    Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for having me here in the lead up to my Government’s first Budget. Before I get started can I acknowledge: Simon Bridges – Auckland Business Chamber CEO. Steve Jurkovich – Kiwibank CEO. Kids born ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-05-26T12:06:35+00:00