Farexit

Written By: - Date published: 7:30 am, July 5th, 2016 - 98 comments
Categories: Europe, International, uk politics - Tags: , ,

Farage ma te wa

So Nigel Farage has bowed out of the leadership of UKIP. He announced that he was standing down last night and the reason advanced being that he wanted to get his life back.

He plans to stay on as a member of the European Parliament for the next two years.  Given his opposition to that entity you have to ask whether accepting a salary from that entity is more than slightly hypocritical.  Especially when he has continuously attacked extravagant spending by the EU.

Not that the work is too onerous.  It has been reported that over the past two years Farage has the second worst attendance record of all 746 members of the European Parliament only ahead of Irishman Brian Cowley who has significant health issues.  He has turned up to only 40% of all possible roll calls.

It is a shame that MPs do not have similar obligations to beneficiaries who face having their meagre benefit cut if their attempts to find work are considered to be not enthusiastic enough.

Not that Farage’s salary is at the same level.  He receives NZ$145,000 salary and another $400 per day living expenses when he does attend.

And it makes you wonder how serious Farage and Boris Johnson were about change.  Now that the referendum has passed there is a great deal of work to be done to untangle the United Kingdom’s legal and economic system from Europe.  This is not a simple job and will require years of work to achieve and the leaders for change have both bowed out.

So long Nigel.  I hope his toxic effect on democracy is on the wane.

98 comments on “Farexit ”

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  1. Ad 1
    5 July 2016 at 7:38 am

    Plenty of people said Brexit was about proletarian revolt against austerity. It’s about a couple of guys who enjoyed a jolly jape, a fag and a pint, and played them all like a black grand piano.

    • Kevin 1.1
      5 July 2016 at 8:51 am

      Hardly. Very simplistic view.

    • AmaKiwi 1.2
      5 July 2016 at 9:24 am

      Personality politics versus issue oriented politics.

      Our system makes it impossible for you and me to vote for Party A’s jobs policies, Party B’s housing policy, Party C’s environmental policies. Why? Because “parliament is sovereign.” I.e., parliament is our dictator. The party on the throne decides everything and the public be damned.

      It is criminal. The people should be sovereign. It is our country. We should have the power to override parliament and decide the important issues. That is democracy.

      Nigel Farage is wise not to stay around to rise to his level incompetence. He’ll leave that to parliament’s petty dictators who lust to control everything. Good on him.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1
        5 July 2016 at 2:27 pm

        It is criminal. The people should be sovereign. It is our country. We should have the power to override parliament and decide the important issues. That is democracy.

        QFT

    • Colonial Viper 1.3
      5 July 2016 at 11:01 am

      It’s about a couple of guys who enjoyed a jolly jape, a fag and a pint, and played them all like a black grand piano.

      Do you believe the working class and lower income voters who tend to vote UKIP (and who voted for BREXIT) are racist gullible, easily played bigots.

      I imagine this kind of sneering anti-working class attitude is why many of these people no longer vote for the mainstream middle class parties which barely to bother their contempt for the working class any more.

      • BM 1.3.1
        5 July 2016 at 11:23 am

        The liberal left isn’t really that interested in the working class anymore, all a bit too low brow and common.

      • Ad 1.3.2
        5 July 2016 at 12:21 pm

        I think they got played, the players have certainly sneered, and have exited Stage Right.

        • Colonial Viper 1.3.2.1
          5 July 2016 at 12:27 pm

          Say whatever you want, I see UKIPs vote going up from this point, and Labour’s going down.

          • swordfish 1.3.2.1.1
            5 July 2016 at 2:10 pm

            Roughly half of UK Labour’s support derives from relatively affluent, liberal Metropolitan ABC1s / the other half from working and lower middle-class C2DEs.*

            The former overwhelmingly chose Remain, the latter were pretty evenly split on the EU Ref choices.

            Add (1) the roughly 50% of Labour C2DEs who went Brexit to (2) all of those working-class, Brexit-voting former Labour supporters who have either moved to Ukip (last Election) or into non-voting (during Blair years) = and that’s a huge demographic that Labour simply can’t afford to ignore. Not if they’re interested in ever being in Government again.

            * Based on authoritative 2015 Election polling by Ipsos-Mori and calculations I’ve done based on UK census. About 55% of Labour supporters were C2DEs / 45% ABC1s. But those figures are largely reversed when you factor in those who actually turned out to vote Labour on Election Day. Labour is now the most socially diverse of the various UK parties in terms of its constituency, whereas Ukip is by far the most working-class.

            • Colonial Viper 1.3.2.1.1.1
              5 July 2016 at 4:00 pm

              Labour is now the most socially diverse of the various UK parties in terms of its constituency, whereas Ukip is by far the most working-class.

              that’s worth repeating.

              • mickysavage …
                5 July 2016 at 8:23 pm

                So what do you propose? Speaking as someone from the working class of the working class and dedicated to the working class I don’t think progressive movements need to agree with all “working class” views.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  5 July 2016 at 8:39 pm

                  There’s no need to even bother as other parties will arise and fit into those areas that Labour no longer wants.

      • Peter Swift 1.3.3
        5 July 2016 at 1:35 pm

        “Do you believe the working class and lower income voters who tend to vote UKIP (and who voted for BREXIT) are racist gullible, easily played bigots.”

        Yes, seems like there were plenty of those dummies about, exercising their right to democracy.

      • miravox 1.3.4
        5 July 2016 at 5:16 pm

        “Do you believe the working class and lower income voters who tend to vote UKIP (and who voted for BREXIT) are racist gullible, easily played bigots”

        It seems the working class and lower income voters weren’t necessarily so in Scotland with all regions, rich and poor voting to remain.

        I’m picking the English vote has something to do with the level of political discourse and the quality of the leadership.

  2. mikesh 2
    5 July 2016 at 9:41 am

    Just because he wanted Britain out of the EU, is no reason to buy into the British MSM’s smear campaign against Farage. Also, it must be recognised that Johnson is only out of it because of Gove’s disloyalty; and Farage is staying on till the withdrawal is complete, presumably after another two years.

    • mickysavage 2.1
      5 July 2016 at 10:05 am

      Why is that? Put to one side the complexity of the motivations of others for the brexit vote don’t you think it is slightly hypocritical of Farage to continue to receive a salary from the EU given his campaign?

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        5 July 2016 at 10:52 am

        He plans to stay on as a member of the European Parliament for the next two years. Given his opposition to that entity you have to ask whether accepting a salary from that entity is more than slightly hypocritical.

        I don’t think this is a valid line, MS. It’s akin to National saying to Labour MPs – you want a higher tax rate? Why aren’t you voluntarily giving extra money to the IRD yourself? Or are you being more than slightly hypocritical?

        Farage stood on a very clear anti EU political platform, he stuck to the same platform all the way through, he was elected in as an MEP on that platform, and he has delivered on that platform to the people who voted him in on it.

        Is there a reason you think that the UK voters who elected Farage should be deprived of the representation of their views in the EU Parliament?

        Farage has successfully advocated for BREXIT which he knows will terminate his political career as an MEP and end his salary and perks there. It’s exactly what he campaigned on and he knew it would end his time at the tax payers trough.

        That’s far more than I’ve seen most politicians do, especially those who seem to hang on by their fingernails way way after their used by date.

        Frankly, for real examples of political hypocrisy, just check out the behaviour of the UK Labour caucus.

        • mickysavage 2.1.1.1
          5 July 2016 at 11:21 am

          Is there a reason you think that the UK voters who elected Farage should be deprived of the representation of their views in the EU Parliament?

          How about he doesn’t turn up.

          And besides he rails against extravagant spending but is willing to accept it for doing less than almost every other Euro MP.

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1
            5 July 2016 at 11:42 am

            On the contrary, Farage has achieved more than just about every other MEP, and further more, what he has accomplished is exactly what he promised to his voters.

            Better than assessing MEPs like primary school kids and whether or not they are present for roll call.

            • Hanswurst 2.1.1.1.1.1
              5 July 2016 at 1:09 pm

              the thing is, CV, he hasn’t done anything of the kind. He has helped convince a thin majority of the British electorate to vote to leave the EU. The achievement you are talking about, negotiating an exit in the interests of the ordinary Briton, hasn’t actually happened yet, and an actually sceptical observer, as you are implying yourself to be, would question how likely that outcome is at all. You keep banging on about how others are being overly credulous in the face of establishment propaganda, while accepting another simplified interpretation with equal credulity.

              • Colonial Viper …
                5 July 2016 at 1:34 pm

                Negotiating a successful exit from the EU is something that the elites are going to contrive against with all means possible methinks, which is why Cameron did not follow through on his promise to trigger Article 50 ASAP.

                • Hanswurst …
                  5 July 2016 at 7:25 pm

                  What does that have to do with whether Farage has delivered what he promised to his voters or not? It’s like you’ve discovered some moving goalposts and are busily shredding them to build straw men with.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    5 July 2016 at 7:30 pm

                    What does that have to do with whether Farage has delivered what he promised to his voters or not?

                    I guess we’ll be able to tell if UKIP’s vote goes up next time.

                    • mickysavage …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:25 pm

                      And if it does? Should we celebrate that those with racist attitudes think they are on the ascendancy?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:37 pm

                      So its the ignorant blue collar racist vote which chose BREXIT, and who support UKIP?

                    • mickysavage …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:43 pm

                      Come on CV. You are better than this. Much of the vote was good old working class people giving the fingers to the establishment. Some of the vote were complete and utter racists wanting to stop people from Poland living in England.

                      There were a range of views. Some totally supportable, some were awful.

                      There was no one idea which carried the result.

                      But speaking positively about Farage is something that most progressives would draw a line at.

                    • Peroxide Blonde …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:45 pm

                      4 million people voted for a party other than Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in the last UK general election.
                      They were denied a voice in the House of Commons while 1,000 freeloading unelected Labour Tory and Lib Dem peers get Stg300 per day.

                      The disenfranchising of 4 million people is nothing to gloat at.

                      Had Labour been close to the streets rather than the libraries of Oxbridge and the Wine Bars of London things would be a lot better all around.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:51 pm

                      Progressive politics will increasingly fail in the coming years, often due to the actions of self proclaimed progressive politicians themselves.

                      Hell, most UK Labour MPs still speak glowingly of War Criminal, Arms Dealing, Bankster Consultant Tony Blair.

                      If nothing else, saying nice things about Farage puts one in a better class then them.

                    • mickysavage …
                      5 July 2016 at 9:47 pm

                      Hell, most UK Labour MPs still speak glowingly of War Criminal, Arms Dealing, Bankster Consultant Tony Blair.

                      So? Blair should be charged and this justifies racist opinions how?

                    • Hanswurst …
                      6 July 2016 at 2:23 am

                      So its the ignorant blue collar racist vote which chose BREXIT, and who support UKIP?

                      I think most people’s arguments here are a bit more complex than that, CV. Your justification of Farage’s success, however, can only logically lead to the conclusion that it’s the ignorant, racist vote that chose Brexit. After all, Farage himself is on record for his many racist and xenophobic comments. You can’t have it both ways. Either Farage is the hero of the glorious and racist Brexit movement, and its voters are the racists who follow him, or he’s misrepresenting Brexit it and its enlightened supporters, and Brexit should disown him as quickly as possible.

            • mikesh 2.1.1.1.1.2
              5 July 2016 at 1:34 pm

              He will be seen to have achieved a hell of a lot more when other countries start leaving the EU. Now that the cat’s been let out of the bag there must be many who are now considering it.

              • Colonial Viper …
                5 July 2016 at 4:14 pm

                He said in his resignation speech that he now intends to assist independence movements throughout the EU.

              • AmaKiwi …
                5 July 2016 at 6:54 pm

                @ mikesh

                “a hell of a lot of other countries will be leaving the EU.”

                My comment is NOT approval or disapproval of Brexit. It is based on history and the sociology of economic depressions.

                The EU and many countries will fragment. A boom era is optimistic, trusting, and inclusiveness. An era of economic depression is pessimistic and isolationist.

                If Texas breaks away from the USA (as some Texans want), it would improve my impression of the USA. Maybe they can take Alabama and Mississippi with them. (I forgot, they already fought that war in the 1860’s.)

            • miravox 2.1.1.1.1.3
              6 July 2016 at 3:51 am

              Even if you’re correct, CV, at what cost? and does that outweigh the achievement?

              The news out of London today suggests another round of disaster capitalism is on its way, racism and bigotry has been unleashed, an MP assassinated and it’s not over yet.

              “In future, I won’t be constrained when I answer questions. The real me will now come out” Nigel Farage

              • Colonial Viper …
                6 July 2016 at 10:17 am

                The powers that be will teach the population the error of its ways via financial chaos and economic fear, yes. There will be retribution for daring to oppose the declared wisdom as provided through News Corp etc.

                Thank you for that Farage quote. He’s got a cunning plan to take his politics EU wide, is what I read from that.

                • miravox …
                  6 July 2016 at 9:30 pm

                  If Farage and Johnson didn’t know what would happen, then they’re pretty stupid. But of course they did know and went ahead anyway. Johnson fallen to his hubris, Farage left with the satisfying social and economic destruction he revels in.

                  Yup, Farage will break a few more eggs, including more of those he’s vowed he’s protecting. But hey, what’s a revolution without a bit of collateral damage for the greater good (/sarc) and personal glory huh?

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    6 July 2016 at 9:40 pm

                    I hadn’t known that you were so appreciative of the sovereignty sapping status quo, or that you would take sides with David Cameron and UK Labour in backing REMAIN.

                    A clear majority in England (53.2/46.8) voted BREXIT. I respect that.

                    • miravox …
                      6 July 2016 at 9:49 pm

                      As if I’d take sides with Cameron. Ultimately he’s to blame for this mess.

                      I acknowledge the results, including those of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar. Worth trying to understand why these regions did not vote leave, while England and Wales did. I doubt the EU was the main reason for the England/Wales vote.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      6 July 2016 at 10:20 pm

                      People are finding that there are decreasingly few ways to vent their frustration at the power elite.

                      If English unemployment was 1% to 2% lower, if the minimum wage was a thousand pounds a year higher, if it looked like the Westminster politicians were actually listening to the concerns of the people instead of focussing on their own careers…then yeah, I think REMAIN could have won handily.

                      But the elite aren’t willing to concede any of that.

                    • miravox …
                      7 July 2016 at 7:54 am

                      Well, we agree on that.

        • Kevin 2.1.1.2
          5 July 2016 at 11:24 am

          And he can hardly be accused of ‘milking it’ when he has only turned up to 40% of roll calls.

  3. RedLogix 3
    5 July 2016 at 9:49 am

    Next the Queen abdicates and the Statue of Liberty stomps off back home in a fit of Gaelic pique.

    • Ad 3.1
      5 July 2016 at 10:03 am

      There’s that line from U2’s “You’re So Cruel”:

      “I gave her everything she ever wanted.
      It wasn’t what she wanted.”

  4. Observer Toke 4
    5 July 2016 at 10:20 am

    .
    . Guy Faux and Boris

    . Farage and his close mate, have blown up the poms’ House of Parliament completely. Will take years and years to fix.

    They would bomb their own wives and mothers to smithereens if they could. Just for the upheaval. What a hapless outfit Britain is. ! Have you ever seen a more disreputable pair !

    The Labour Party has caught onto a finessed version of the same savagery, and is looking for an unemployed Farage and Boris to blow to pieces the legitimate, heavily endorsed Leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

    Nice types the poms.

  5. Observer Toke 5
    5 July 2016 at 11:02 am

    . Hi CV

    . Why did your esteemed member of the EU Parliament and his cobber Boris not have a plan for delivering an immediate “Bright Future” for the Britons? Why did they lie very seriously to the voting Public?

    Dishonourable men.

    • Sabine 5.1
      5 July 2016 at 11:10 am

      they don’t have to have plans for the future. They just have to ‘stand’ for something, and not be labour.

      And then, when they stood for something they can leave a huge pile of shit in the room and leave it up to others to clean the mess they have left behind.

      But at least they ‘stood’ for something.

      And, most importantly they are not Labour.

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1
        5 July 2016 at 11:48 am

        It’s not for Farage to invoke Article 50.

        David Cameron promised to do that immediately after a BREXIT vote.

        Clearly the elite are trying to find a way out of triggering Article 50.

        As for the Labour Party. They are a collapsing, careerist, Third Way obsessed political force. In the UK this is now out in the open for all to see. Voters in Scotland saw this quite some time ago and time has proven them right once more.

        Support the memory of Labour’s greatness if you want; but their future is limited and compromised decades ago.

        • mikesh 5.1.1.1
          5 July 2016 at 1:42 pm

          They are probably waiting for a presidential veto, against exiting, from Obama.

    • Colonial Viper 5.2
      5 July 2016 at 11:49 am

      Observer Tokoroa.

      Seems like hundreds of UK Labour MPs have sided against Corbyn, and against their very own general membership and electorate committees.

      At least Farage delivered to his supporters what he said he would, and what he actually campaigned on.

      • te reo putake 5.2.1
        5 July 2016 at 2:48 pm

        The problem is that Corbyn has failed to deliver what he said he would and what he campaigned on. I know it’s satisfying for some to refer to the majority of UK Labour MP’s as careerist Blairite lickspittles, but, in reality, the leftovers from the Cool Britannia days are only a small minority of the caucus. What is really a problem for Corbyn is that he has lost most of the left in his caucus as well.

        Further compounding the issue for him is that he has lost significant support outside caucus. He probably still commands majority support amongst the members, just, but that appears to be dwindling by the day. I can’t see how he’s going to survive. Frankly, I can’t see why he should survive, given that he’s failed to deliver for Labour. He’s the David Cunliffe of the UK. Pleasant, well meaning, and singularly unable to land a telling blow on the other side.

        • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1
          5 July 2016 at 4:15 pm

          Corbyn’s been making the Cunliffe mistake of trying to keep the disloyal Blairite pricks in caucus on side while not speaking to and serving the base constituency which gave him his power: the general Labour membership.

        • Bill 5.2.1.2
          5 July 2016 at 5:30 pm

          The problem is that Corbyn has failed to deliver what he said he would and what he campaigned on.

          Care to expand? Membership is up and the Labour percentage of the vote from recent by-elections is up. I seem to remember he campaigned on moving away from ‘personality’ politics. He’s done that – he speaks to and of issues – sometimes, it’s true, with far too much nuance and intelligence for the black hat/white hat cowboys, but hey…. He said he’d put together a balanced cabinet. He did that. (Not his fault many have recently resigned).

          What are these (presumably) big things he campaigned on that he’s failed to deliver?

          He campaigned against the politics of austerity, and well, since he’s only leader of the opposition he’s kind of limited in what he can do, although I still reckon he should have forged alliances with Plaid, the Greens and the SNP on that front.

          But that aside…what’s this big failing or these big failings that mean he really ought to go?

          • Anne 5.2.1.2.1
            5 July 2016 at 5:52 pm

            …what’s this big failing or these big failings that mean he really ought to go?

            Well, the only one they’ve come up with thus far is that he didn’t campaign strongly enough for Remain. What exactly he was supposed to do that he didn’t do remains a mystery.

          • te reo putake 5.2.1.2.2
            5 July 2016 at 6:11 pm

            Corbyn has failed to unite his party (though, to be fair, his caucus is now almost completely united).

            His local Government results are worse than Miliband’s and what wins Labour have enjoyed (such as the London mayoralty) were despite him, not because of him. Under his leadership, Labour has not improved in Scotland and Wales. The Brexit result clearly shows that Labour has lost influence in the Midlands and parts of the north that were traditional Labour heartlands.

            He doesn’t cut it on TV. He’s not too bad in the print media, though. All in all, his message is not getting through and he does not look electable.

            Other than that, he’s doing fine.

            • Peter Swift 5.2.1.2.2.1
              5 July 2016 at 6:17 pm

              Plus labour’s internal polling shows 1/3 of those who voted for Milliband at the last general election will not vote for Corbyn’s labour.

              • te reo putake …
                5 July 2016 at 6:25 pm

                Speaking of polls, the Unite union still back Corbyn. However, a poll of the union’s members reveals that half think he should go and only 20% think he will ever be PM.

                • swordfish …
                  6 July 2016 at 2:46 am

                  True. That YouGov poll for Unite wouldn’t have made pleasant reading for Corbyn supporters. And Corbyn’s ratings have certainly fallen among Party members over the last month. But then in hypothetical head-to-head contests in the YouGov poll of the membership, Corbyn still wins fairly convincingly – by 10 points against Eagle, 11 against Watson, 17 against Jarvis.

                  What’s more, while majorities of both Labour Party and Unite members think it’s Unlikely that a Corbyn-led Party would win the next Election, they feel precisely the same way about a Labour Party led by any putative new leader (just as they did during the 2015 leadership contest when both members and voters were pretty pessimistic about the chances of any of the 4 contenders – with the Blairite (Kendall) and Brownite (Cooper) candidates seen as particularly unelectable).

                  Meanwhile, a post-Brexit poll for BBC Newsnight was a little more comforting for Corbyn supporters: it found that Labour Party members had only slightly cooled on Corbyn’s leadership, with 59% still supporting him (same as he received in last year’s contest and just 5 points down on the previous poll of Labour’s “Selectorate”) and – in addition – that 45 out of 50 constituency Labour Party Chairs contacted by Newsnight said they still backed Corbyn, with many saying they were furious at the PLP.

                  Polls have also shown that most Labour Voters (as opposed to just members) do not want him to stand down.

                  Not that I’m denying that some of Corbyn’s personal ratings have been dire (although, overall, they’ve been a little more mixed than some establishment commentators would have us believe).

              • swordfish …
                6 July 2016 at 1:46 am

                Peter … see second part of my comment here …
                http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-28062016/#comment-1195743
                These Internal poll claims are nonsense.

  6. Bill 6
    5 July 2016 at 11:25 am

    There was a thought provoking opinion piece in The Guardian last week sometime suggesting that if Corbyn had picked up the ‘leave’ baton – which many argue is his natural position – then the disaffected working class would be voting Labour today and supporting Labour today rather than getting behind the only person who would seem (at least on the surface) to be giving any kind of political expression to their justified discontent and anger.

    Lefty liberals need to have a long hard look in the mirror. The status quo, while working out okay for many of them, is a snarling, starved dog dumped into the living space of many working class people.

    How fucking ridiculous to run a remain campaign on the basis that leaving the EU would result in uncertainty and change? When the snarling dog of neo-liberalism is in your face, any prospect of change is leapt at.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1
      5 July 2016 at 11:44 am

      The last thing that UK Labour is interested in doing is giving themselves an honest look in the mirror. They know they’d turn to stone.

  7. One Two 7
    5 July 2016 at 11:28 am

    Those who own the banks and control the weapons are pulling the strings. Brexit or not, that won’t change

    Likely that Farage and UKIP were a long term objective to be used as required

  8. Lanthanide 8
    5 July 2016 at 11:38 am

    “Given his opposition to that entity you have to ask whether accepting a salary from that entity is more than slightly hypocritical.”

    His answer is that the UK government is a net contributor of funds to the EU, so really he is being paid by his own government.

    Seems like a reasonable argument to me.

  9. Infused 9
    5 July 2016 at 1:12 pm

    I was all for Brexit as I think it would be good for the UK. These idiot politicians have now really let the people down.

    What a shit show.

  10. Sabine 10
    5 July 2016 at 2:27 pm

    so far no one has actually started the procedures to exit the EU.
    However the main instigators of the referendum have left the building.

    They left behind a divided nation, now not on party line divided, but on stay or leave divided. I guess it is just to hard to fix the mess on created.

    IF Farrage would not just have been a freeloader (and yes that is the nicest i can call him) he would not only have stood for Leave, campaigned for Leave, but he would also have had a plan in place if the “leave” would win. Now judging by the characters of the “leave’ campaign they had/have no such plan, in fact never even intended to just hang around.

    In the mean time, stock tumbled, Britain has lost its AAA rating and other assorted shit. But hey, they stood for something. Yes, they stood for their egos.
    He wants his life back. I guess Jo Cox would also like her life back. Ohhhh……..britain left the Eu and not one shot was fired. Quote from Farrage.

    So frankly i doubt England will exit the EU. Article 50 has yet to be called, until Cameron is fully gone nothing is going to happen, and i doubt it will happen in two month time.

    But England now has a Leave and a Stay population. Job well done mates.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      5 July 2016 at 3:57 pm

      IF Farrage would not just have been a freeloader (and yes that is the nicest i can call him) he would not only have stood for Leave, campaigned for Leave, but he would also have had a plan in place if the “leave” would win

      Farage was the Leader of a minor party which has one MP in Westminster.

      What kind of “plan” were you expecting from him. Were you expecting that David Cameron would give him a Cabinet post, perhaps making him Minister of BREXIT affairs.

      None of that is realistic. The Tories would never hand Farage any real power.

      But England now has a Leave and a Stay population. Job well done mates.

      Again, why are you blaming UKIP and Boris Johnson for the failures of the major party establishment in the UK. All the powers in Westminster needed to do to sideline UKIP and the rest of the LEAVE campaign was to deliver on their long standing promises of EU membership benefits.

      But they couldn’t or wouldn’t.

  11. Observer Toke 11
    5 July 2016 at 3:38 pm

    .TO: Te reo Putake

    . Of all the Labour Caucus, only one person has captured the attention of a very large group of Citizens. They in turn have enlarged the Party Membership considerably.

    Parliamentarians who have deserted Jeremy Corbyn have described him as a genuine decent man. They on the other hand have done nothing for the people of Britain.

    They are Tory copies. Useless like the Tories. Spiteful too.

    Why do they not get to the men and women who have been touched by Corbyn and ask how they can help? Perhaps their very low cred embarrases them.

    I did not see you as a Tory te reo Putake. I cannot understand why you support the useless Labour Caucus and dump Jeremy Corbyn

    • te reo putake 11.1
      5 July 2016 at 4:00 pm

      I don’t want to see Corbyn go, Observer. But I think he’s toast, sadly. David Cunliffe also brought huge numbers of new members into the NZLP. He had wide support from the existing members, too. But he couldn’t win over New Zealand.

      I think Corbyn is in a really similar place to DC. Tremendous potential that hasn’t equated to results.

      I also think we should be showing some respect to the UK Labour caucus. If the staff of a company I was advising overwhelmingly passed a motion of no confidence in the CEO, I’d be suggesting it was time for a change.

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        5 July 2016 at 4:19 pm

        I also think we should be showing some respect to the UK Labour caucus.

        Now that’s such a fucking joke I now have to clean coffee off my keyboard.

        If the staff of a company I was advising overwhelmingly passed a motion of no confidence in the CEO

        Reminder: the staff are paid to do their job for their clients. And their clients overwhelmingly wanted Corbyn in charge, not these other over paid lackwits.

        I don’t want to see Corbyn go, Observer.

        Clean up aisle 2! Crocodile tears spillage!

        • te reo putake 11.1.1.1
          5 July 2016 at 4:30 pm

          I hope you read the next sentence, CV. It explains why some respect needs to go their way.

          Like it or not, they are real people. This is how they make their living and presumably they have a degree of loyalty to their party. They are doing what they think is best, as they see it. And, to repeat, the majority of those that have lost confidence in Corbyn are from the centre and the left, not the few remaining third way aficionados. Most have turned from wanting to see JC succeed to wanting him gone. That’s the issue, not what ‘Blairites’ want.

          These people are Corbyn’s workforce. Without them, he has no ability to get the job done. Frankly, I wish more working people had the ability to fire their under performing boss. The world would be a better place.

          • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1
            5 July 2016 at 4:44 pm

            Frankly, I wish more working people had the ability to fire their under performing boss. The world would be a better place.

            If Corbyn had any guts he’d get every single one of those disloyal Blairite MPs fired by their electorate memberships, alright.

            And yeah, that would make the world, and UK Labour, a better place.

            • marty mars 11.1.1.1.1.1
              5 July 2016 at 4:59 pm

              they are MP’s sure but apart from that what is the difference between them and what some members of a committee did when they resigned cos they didn’t like the direction, potential and leadership of the political party they were volunteering for. Were they disloyal too?

              • Colonial Viper …
                5 July 2016 at 5:06 pm

                hey MM, you’re really no good at farce.

                • marty mars …
                  5 July 2016 at 5:20 pm

                  probably true but there is a serious side to it as well. If they don’t like the leader (and a bunch of wankers they are imo for that view) then they have the right to walk away or to change it if they can. That isn’t disloyalty.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    5 July 2016 at 5:33 pm

                    Here’s a weird idea. Representatives in the House of Commons remembering that their job is representing the common people, not themselves.

                    • marty mars …
                      5 July 2016 at 5:40 pm

                      problem with the common people is they aren’t that common

                      politicians of conviction are more important than yes men and women and everything always changes.

                      Leaders (which politicians should be) are there to lead – we elect them to lead and when they don’t, we elect someone else.

                      Unless you have a conference call with the common people every 5 minutes there is no other way to do it.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 July 2016 at 5:40 pm

                      But if they are re-elected after doing whatever they do, doesn’t that mean that they are in fact representing the voters?

                    • Bill …
                      5 July 2016 at 5:43 pm

                      Like Douglas et al were representing the voters in NZ you mean?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 July 2016 at 5:43 pm

                      But if they are re-elected after doing whatever they do, doesn’t that mean that they are in fact representing the voters?

                      Using your thinking model I guess we can conclude that John Key is a man of the people, after all.

                      edit SNAP Bill

                    • McFlock …
                      5 July 2016 at 5:57 pm

                      What’s the old line – the voters get the government they deserve?

                      More so under MMP than under FPP, but in general, yes.
                      I’m not saying it’s smart government, or good government. But it is a representative government.

                      John Key is a lying piece of shit, but people still voted for a lying piece of shit. I don’t think he’s a “man of the people” as such, but he’s a man of a third of the people. And another third actively oppose him, while the final third don’t seem to care enough to vote against him, so I suppose the fact that he’s either lying or shrugging his shoulders in a “don’t give a fuck” sort of way is, by and large, representing 2/3 of the populace.

                  • Bill …
                    5 July 2016 at 5:38 pm

                    Do they have a right to inflict change through the wrecking ball? Or against the expressed will of those party members who elected them? What about when their constituency branch tells them not to (for example) resign or mount a challenge?

                    Way I see it, the UK Labour Party has a one member one vote system which makes these MPs and their desires no more important in the scheme of things than any other similarly sized grouping of members.

                    edit – actually, even less so since they are there, obstensibly to represent those other members.

                    • marty mars …
                      5 July 2016 at 5:43 pm

                      a right? not sure about that yet here they are doing just that

                      I suppose many branch officials will be resigning in protest that their MP doesn’t follow their instructions – just have to wait and see who actually has the power I spose

                    • te reo putake …
                      5 July 2016 at 6:14 pm

                      They don’t represent the party members, per se, Bill. They represent the voters in their electorate. As do all MP’s, actually.

          • Ad 11.1.1.1.2
            5 July 2016 at 4:46 pm

            It would indeed.

          • One Two 11.1.1.1.3
            5 July 2016 at 4:56 pm

            Like it or not, they are real people….

            OH MY

            Self interested, morally bankrupt and controllable is what they are

            The world seems to be run by ‘world class’ schemers

            ‘Real people’ are those negatively affected thanks to ‘decisions’ made by bent public servants

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.3.1
              5 July 2016 at 5:03 pm

              Come now, you must have compassion for these MPs in Westminster doing it tough, backbench pay of £74,962 is only five times the adult minimum wage.

              Of course, unlike the Labour Party of old, there isn’t a single disloyal Blairite trougher in that caucus who has done real work in the mines, steel mills or on a lathe. They’re all lawyers and pol sci grads.

              • Peter Swift …
                5 July 2016 at 5:32 pm

                Expanding on that “labour party of old” rubbish, did you ever work down a mine or in a steel mill before you failed at getting elected for labour?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  5 July 2016 at 5:37 pm

                  No, I’d be a white collar university educated MP.

                  • Peter Swift …
                    5 July 2016 at 5:42 pm

                    So by your logic up page, you could only have represented the white collar university educated if elected.

                    Forget mills and lathes. Best hop on the consistency train, comradeski. Whoo whoo

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:22 pm

                      You’re sort of stupid, aren’t you? I am one man. The UK Labour caucus has over a hundred MPs. And almost none of them were working class tradies or industrial workers.

                      UK Labour like NZ Labour are upper middle class wannabes and corporate capitalist collaborators.

                      Choo choo shit head.

                    • Peter Swift …
                      5 July 2016 at 8:55 pm

                      You’re so all at sea over a myriad of topics, cat kinski, you’re floating away awash in rhetoric.

                      You get caught out, hoisted by your own petard, and then get abusive as a result.
                      Reality is I’m not offended by you losing it.

          • Peroxide Blonde 11.1.1.1.4
            5 July 2016 at 8:14 pm

            Tristram Hunt and Hillary Benn are patronising patricians pricks. They are uppercrust dilettantes playing at workers champions. They have lead the charge against Corbyn.

            The six aspiring English Labour leaders when Miliband was selected were all Oxbridge graduates.

            Labour seat after Labour seat had an Oxbridge SPAD parachuted in to fill the ranks with the spawn of a tiny sperm bank.

            More of the same will continued the Labour shift into irrelevance.

  12. Observer Toke 12
    5 July 2016 at 5:30 pm

    .
    .To Reo Putake

    . Thankyou for your reply to me. I agree with you that the UK Labour Caucus are human beings. However, they have taken the easy path of copying right royal Tories – in detail.

    They don’t want the burden of restructuring and providing realistic Govt Finance to NHS.

    They don’t like dirty work of supporting Teachers and struggling schools.

    They dislike finding real benefits for middle class workers and families.

    They can’t abide the filth of visiting and assisting the sick; the heavily disadvantaged; the homeless. Diana did.

    They avoid even whispering the word “Union”. They could never imagine themselves going out to the Businesses and the Pickets.to fight for every job in the United Kingdom. To fight for realistic Wages. Fight for the dignity of the non wealthy.

    The UK Labour Caucus is utterly useless. Stop asking silly pedantic questions of the Speaker of the House. Get out and get out on the streets and bring attention to the real life of Britain. Use your backbone – if it still exists.

  13. Don't worry. Be happy 13
    5 July 2016 at 6:48 pm

    Who drew up the terms for the EU referendum which resulted in the current crisis? Who decided that a simple majority would deliver a mandate rather than say, 60%? Who decided that a non binding referendum would be treated as binding? Anyone know? Because whoever was gets to own this mess.

    By the way, anyone seen the Queen?

  14. Peroxide Blonde 14
    5 July 2016 at 7:59 pm

    Farage’s UKIP won 4 million votes in the last UK general election and only one seat.
    Those voters deserved 60 seats or so.

    Had 60 UKIP MPs got into parliament they would have exposed their rhetoric. Democracy and the Brexit debate would be all the better for that.
    Had those 4 million voters seen their vote count at Westminster, and seen the strengths and weaknesses of the UKIP message, they, IMHO, would have been less likely to vote the way they did in Brexit.

    When voters are denied democracy by the gerrymander of First Past the Post they will find another way to punish those who denied them.

    When Labour failed to dump FPP and the House of Lords they failed Labour people. The Westminster careerists broke Labour by buying into the “buggins turn” agenda.

  15. Paul 15
    5 July 2016 at 9:00 pm

    Brexit result shows democratic rejection of neoliberalism

    By Prof Jane Kelsey

    Brexit has shone daylight on a crisis that’s been brewing for several decades. The utopian proclamation by Francis Fukuyama about the ‘end of history’, in the heyday of globalisation, has succumbed to the reality that paradigms come and go. The hegemony of neoliberal ideology and institutions, which supported a financialised and globally integrated form of capitalism, is fragile and fracturing.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/02/brexit-result-shows-democratic-rejection-of-neoliberalism/

  16. The Chairman 16
    6 July 2016 at 9:36 am

    Nigel Farage resignation Q&A
    https://youtu.be/AOjKb8YYe-w?t=2s

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