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Going too far

Written By: - Date published: 9:37 am, February 23rd, 2016 - 253 comments
Categories: Dirty Politics, making shit up - Tags: , , , ,

I’m all in favour of robust political debate, and letting the world know that all too often the tories are greedy, useless and unethical. But this is going too far – Arrest after foul smelling muck tipped over Gerry Brownlee

Chirstchurch Police confirmed the charge this afternoon after Mr Brownlee had an ice cream container filled with what he described as “pretty mucky stuff” tipped over his head.

No one should endorse such an attack.

These excessive acts are the responsibility of the individuals that commit them, not representative of organised political thought, left or right. The guy who attacked Brownlee wasn’t representing “the left” any more than Brownlee was representing “the right” when he assaulted an environmental activist at a National Party conference – Top 10 Gerry Brownlee gaffes.

What does represent the political left or right is organised and systematic action – such as the Key / Ede / Slater / Farrar / Hooton dirty politics machine. Most of them are still out there playing their dirty games. Most recently, after Slater / Farrar had a self-righteous whinge about some vile comments left on an RNZ Facebook page, it seems likely that most of the comments were a “false flag” astroturfing campaign set up by gosh I wonder who – see DimPost for the story – The mysterious case of the hate speech comments on the RNZ Facebook page. Going too far indeed.

253 comments on “Going too far”

  1. shorts 1

    I don’t know why everyone has come to the conclusion that these protests are left or right – other than those whose agendas and world view are so clear cut

    While I can’t condone the act in question I totally support non violent protest

    I certainly won’t be calling the person here a scumbag like Andrew Little – wtf is with that, can’t Labour leaders call people just that, the use of scumbag shows more about Little than anything else, he’s about to go down the rabbit hole and join David Shearer painting roofs

    • Rosie 1.1

      “I don’t know why everyone has come to the conclusion that these protests are left or right – other than those whose agendas and world view are so clear cut”

      I have no idea either. Yesterdays incident was about an individuals pain and their expression of that. Identifying the attack as a left or right motivation is irrelevant.

      • shorts 1.1.1

        irrelevant but very politically motivated – i.e. govt wants to paint lefties as rent a mob et al as that plays well with their core and left (labour) just seems to not have a f__king clue other than to play into govt hands every bloody time

        very few kiwis identify themselves as left or right

        • Rosie 1.1.1.1

          Oh, the Government is all too quick to politicise and create division. Emphasis on Government. Not population.

          I missed the bit about Little referring to the thrower as a scumbag. I take it this was after his buddy buddy pat of solidarity on Brownlees shoulder, which Brownlee being the arrogant rude prick he is, virtually ignored anyway.

          • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1

            Rosie
            I would think that Little was making a statement that this type of thing is not acceptable for any politician or public leader. Anything else and the result would ricochet right back.

          • ropata 1.1.1.1.2

            Maybe Little was rubbing it in, and said to Brownlee: “Ha ha, scumbag!”

        • Doogs 1.1.1.2

          Hang on minute mate. I call myself left, and relatively left of left, and will do so anyone who asks. Proud to be so. Left is about people and right is about fucking money and stuff all else. Get it right!

        • Rodel 1.1.1.3

          Shorts-“very few kiwis identify themselves as left or right”
          That’s your view but I think you’re mistaken.

        • You may possibly be correct that very few kiwis would use those words, however in my experience most kiwis have opinions that place them in those categories pretty recognisably, it’s just one of those things that ordinary people in NZ don’t view themselves as very political, even when they obviously have quite a few political opinions once you engage them in discussion.

    • aerobubble 1.2

      Tories do anything to look like victims. Just make sure the idiots whothrow dilldos, sling actual mud, ans attacked Banks before court are haulled up and punnished. The rest is nonsense as nobody except other idiots would think the individuals involved were emblematic, as that would only reward politicians for being offensive enough to cause retaliation, or worse stage victimhood events. This thread is a counter productive waste.

  2. Sabine 2

    rotten eggs and vegetables were thrown at actors during Elizabethan times if the play did not please the crowd. Considering that Brownlee is no more then an actor masquerading as an MP who cares about his work/constituency/country/ and CHCH, it might have been deserved.

    It is a time honored fashion to make clear about ones unhappiness, and i prefer dildos and dirt over bullets and knives.

    In saying that the person who did throw the bucket of muck should be charged with something, maybe assault with mulch.

    Karma, what goes around comes around, and pride always goeth before the fall.

    I would also like to point out that Respect is something that is usually given free of charge, but once that respect has been lost it is very hard for it to be re-gained. Maybe Mr. Brownlee has used up all his respect given by the community and has now reached the point where people are so desperate, so angry, so hurt, so over it, that throwing a bucket of liquefaction might be the only way left to make a point. Because clearly, the National led Government is not listening to the people of Christchurch.

    • Puckish Rogue 2.1

      The problem is Sabine that it might not end with just dildos and dirt, it will probably escalate as people get more emboldened

      Hopefully this guy gets a stiff sentence because, as of late, theres been a worrying trend in protestors crossing the line and getting at most a wet bus ticket slap on the wrist

      and all it will do is increase in intensity and seriousness until someone gets hurt

      • Sabine 2.1.1

        ask yourself just once why do people do what they did.

        and maybe start changing that.

        I have posted the clip of the guy below. Have a good loock at him. He is no revolutionary, he is no lefty / righty conspiracy guy. He is pretty much Joe Ordinary Blokes.

        He did not cause the earth quake, he did not cause the misery with the Insurance companies, he did not cut the funds to Mental Health Care in CHCH.

        So why do you think he threw a bucket of (please let it be) shitty compound chocolate at a shitty minister not doing his job, but showing up to get accolates.

        Why do you think over a thousand people – must be a rent a crowd – showed up to voice their unhappiness?

        Why do you think this is happening?

        Ask yourself, and if you are afraid of this unhappiness becoming more and more intense leading to something else, you might want to right a Letter to your National MP, or a letter to the National led Government and ask them to do better by the people of CHCH and of New Zealand so as to not provoke people into desperate measures.

      • Skinny 2.1.2

        Let’s have abit of balance here, read one of the former woodwork teachers antics here;

        “Brownlee grabbed him by the belt, thrust his knee “up my backside”, and manhandled him from the venue. He said Brownlee then threatened to throw him down a staircase, and that he feared for his life during the scuffle.”

        People have long memories and Gerald’s behaviour is nothing short of a thug. The poor bloke feared for his life as Brownlee was bearing down on him. Disgraceful conduct from a Minister none the less.

      • Doogs 2.1.3

        it will only increase in so far as those dildos who call themselves Naczi MPs continue to act like wastes of space – in Brownlee’s case, a lot of it. You don’t have much respect for NZ citizens, do you? Accusing them of expected escalating violence.

  3. jono 3

    Having just read the brief Stuff article about the assailant it sounds very much like he is a victim too. Of the Quakes, of Government indifference, potentially of squeezed mental health services. I think nothing has angered me more about this government than the treatment of a large segment of the citizens of Christchurch, and before that the cuts to sexual abuse services via ACC in the first term. This is a Government with no moral imagination and its MPs and. Ministers seem collectively to have never, ever walked in any other person shoes.

    • GregJ 3.1

      Apparently his 14 year old son died in the quake the day before his 15th birthday. I think there is some suffering there.

        • BM 3.1.1.1

          Shame about his boy, having said that, this individual is scum.

          • McGrath 3.1.1.1.1

            The man has has a conviction for possessing child porn. Shame about his son, but dad is an A-Grade scumbag.

            • Pasupial 3.1.1.1.1.1

              McGarth
              Link please.

                • Pasupial

                  BM

                  I certainly don’t defend him on that score, though it seems his wife does for some reason. Child pornography may seem harmless because; “the images are already on the internet”, but you are enabling the pedophiles who put it there. Unless the participants are underage, then I guess it’s more complex…

                  But it seems more likely that it was the death of his son, rather than interest in porn that lead to him assault Brownlee. I still contend that he is a person in distress who has committed crimes, not scum to be ignored.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    How about hes a piece of scum in distress?

                    • Pasupial

                      PR

                      Was there some kind of memo that went around trolltown? We have; you, BM & McGarth, all within 10 minutes of one another able to reference a Press article from 2013 about a then obscure man’s arrest for possession of child porn. Anyway, this NZH piece is creepier in its description of the images, have to agree with the judge’s comments at the end about it being; “not a victimless crime. The demand for images drives the proliferation of the production of images of the exploitation and defilement of children”:

                      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10859562

                      I still contend that he was, in this instance; firstly a human being acting in distress. The earlier child-porn possession was certainly pretty scummy, but doesn’t make him scum (an important distinction that seems to elude you).

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      The earlier child-porn possession was certainly pretty scummy, but doesn’t make him scum (an important distinction that seems to elude you).

                      Yes it does actually, that’s exactly what it makes him

                    • Richard McGrath []

                      The guy apparently had images of toddlers being sexually abused by adults. That makes him scum in my book.

                    • the pigman

                      Unless he’s a prominent New Zealander from the Northland region, right PR? Or a right-wing morals campaginer like Graham Capill? You righties do righteous indignation like no other, it is a tragic, withered fig leaf for your hypocrisy.

                • Skinny

                  Oh dear I wonder what other additives were in the chocolate icecream? Poor old Gerry literally got creamed.

                  What a creep alright!

          • Pasupial 3.1.1.1.2

            BM

            This individual is a person driven to assaulting someone at a time of grief. The scum are those politicians who chose to exploit the event as an occasion for a pompous photo-op. Given how thoroughly he has failed the city, for Brownlee to even show his face at this occasion is one of the scummiest things conceivable.

            • BM 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Ravings of a lunatic.

              • Pasupial

                Sentence fragment of an idiot.

                • Naki man

                  Apparently if your a raving lefty nutter its ok to have thousands of images of children, including toddlers, performing sexual acts with adults on your laptop. You guys have no morals at all.

                  • Gangnam Style

                    He’s a raving lefty nutter? What the fuck does that mean? Coz he doesn’t like the Nats therefore raving lefty nutter?

                    • Naki man

                      “He’s a raving lefty nutter? What the fuck does that mean? Coz he doesn’t like the Nats therefore raving lefty nutter?”

                      No,Pasupial and the other raving lefty nutters on here defending the scum.

                  • McFlock

                    apparently, if you [LALALALALALALALA] you can still get through candidate selection for a right wing party.

                  • Pasupial

                    NakiMan

                    Learn to read before typing:

                    [I] have to agree with the judge’s comments at the end [of linked NZH article] about it being; “not a victimless crime. The demand for images drives the proliferation of the production of images of the exploitation and defilement of children”

                    Going too far

                    It is not okay, but it is also a three year old crime for which he has served his sentence. It has nothing to do with his assault on Brownlee. The dredging up of past criminality seems an attempt to discredit his actions yesterday through an ad hominum character assassination.

                    If; you and BM and PR and McGarth, are so very upset about his past crimes (say due to the leniency of the sentence), then why were you silent on them until today?

              • Ffloyd

                Bm For goodness sake will you stop taking up space!

            • Macro 3.1.1.1.2.2

              Well said Pasupial. The only lunatics raving here are the BM’s and other RWNs showing their “righteous indignation”, and little compassion. Brownlee has consistently failed the people of Chch. Someone was bound to give him the message eventually.

          • Tautuhi 3.1.1.1.3

            What a lovely troll you are !!!

          • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1.4

            It’s true – Brownlee should never have been let near public office – he is beneath contempt.

      • Ennui 3.1.2

        I wondered what would drive somebody to do this? Sounds to me the act of somebody who has been driven to distraction by tragic events. One wonders about the “system” adding to these woes by going judicial. Cannot some sanity prevail and some balance be achieved?

  4. Here is a quote that comes to mind and just in case anyone is wondering, I totally condone dildo, shit and egg throwing at the scumbags running this country into the debt ridden ground.

    “Expecting marginalized people to disregard their own emotions to calmly educate you is the epitome of entitlement and privilege.”

    Especially when the listener is not at all interested in actually listening and prepared to cooperate and negotiate a reasonable solution to a problem the marginalized people in question have to live with day in day out!

  5. Anne 5

    Three important tweets in response to the abusive comments on the RNZ facebook page:

    1. Yes. It is not really John Campbell’s fault but he has become the pin-up boy of hateful people on the left.

    2. And all under real names. This is what the NZ left’s hate campaigns have led ppl to think it’s acceptable comment.

    3. (in bold by author of tweets)
    No! Do not delete. It is in the public interest for people to see what left wing social media activists really think.

    The author of those tweets? Matthew Hooton.

    It is now obvious this was a right-wing attack organised by individuals associated with Cameron Slater to:

    a) Belittle and discredit John Campbell.
    b) Falsely represent their remarks as coming from left wing commentators.

    Now we know what lengths Matthew Hooton is prepared to go in the name of Dirty Politics!

    • Roflcopter 5.1

      Really? 99% of the posters of the filth have been on Facebook well before Campbell even went to RNZ.

      How do you reconcile that?

      • Et Tu Brute 5.1.1

        Exactly. If this was a massive conspiracy it was years in the making and to discharge it on such a small scandal seems a complete waste of time. That and they all seem like real people. Sorry but I think they were just people acting inappropriately.

    • wow I didn’t think i could think any less of the hollowboy – but i can. He hasn’t changed a bit – still slimey, still squirmy, a slug covered in sticky mucus with a name.

    • Tc 5.3

      Matty is a snake who slithers where hes told to for a paycheque and loves his work.

      Rattling JC’s cage isnt something he is unlikely to choose on his own so lying down with dogs may give him some long term scratching with JC on the case.

      Bring it on JC.

      • Anne 5.3.1

        I’m not suggesting Hooton was complicit in the organising of the comments, but that he used them to cast vicious aspersions on all left wing commentators including Standardistas. In the 7 years I’ve followed this site I have never seen anything that came remotely near the severity of abuse seen on the RNZ Facebook site.

        • Lucy 5.3.1.1

          Or the abuse that is allowed on Kiwiblog – Farrar should look at his commentators venom and bile before he does the righteous indignation about RNZ. Some of the comments are vile.

          • reason 5.3.1.1.1

            +100 Lucy ………. Farrar runs a lynch mob ….. or a modern day equivalent of the ‘brown shirts’……….. It should be called ‘dung beetle blog’.

            I’ve always rated Farrar as worse than slater in their Dirty politics Duo role.

            They played the good cop/bad cop routine on things like the smearing of Amanda Bailey,the Cunliffe hit job or whatever other shit throwing and misinformation the nats were running out of the Beehive…..

            The good cop is always the bigger arse-hole because he pretends to be nice….

            And that is the horrible, sleazy, dangerous and dishonest Farrar …..

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 5.3.1.2

          Under what circumstances is Mr Hooton allowed to point out bad behaviour, Anne? Are you similarly disqualified, or is there a special rule for him?

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 5.3.1.3

          Under what circumstances is Mr Hooton allowed to point out bad behaviour, Anne? Are you similarly disqualified, or is there a special rule for him?

      • rhinocrates 5.3.2

        So oily it’s wonder America hasn’t invaded him.

  6. Sacha 6

    Time and place. Assaulting someone during a solemn ceremony commemorating the dead is never going to get good political results. Plenty of other times to douse the feildmarshall with muck if that’s the best form of protest you can organise.

    • Sabine 6.1

      so essentially you would be ok with Brownlee getting a bucket of much thrown at him today?

      And if the man has lost his son in the quake, than he has a right to be there at the ceremony that National is using to make themselves look good, and he has a right to be upset at the man who is part of a government that has not done the best it could in regards to CHCH and that to boot has cut health services to those that need it in that City.

      Maybe he should just have written a sternly worded letter to the editor? Or maybe a letter to Paul Henry and Mike Hoskins?

      Sometimes people protest the way the can, and I hear there is a lot of liquefaction in that city, nothing easier and cheaper to get then a bucket full of that.

      • travellerev 6.1.1

        Turns out it was a chocolate and flour concoction.

      • Sacha 6.1.2

        If you want political action to be effective, you don’t do it at the equivalent of a funeral. If you just want to let off some steam, go right ahead – but expect political opponents to use it to demonise others as you have noted below. Thanks a bunch, angry dude.

        • Pasupial 6.1.2.1

          Sascha
          You seem to be assuming that the person had political affiliations. There was obviously some small degree of planning in making the concoction and turning up on time, but it seems likely he acted alone. And it seems more of a lashing out than a deliberate political action.

          I agree with Sabine that the occasion was already politicized by a; “ceremony that National is using to make themselves look good”, which was already showing disrespect to; “the equivalent of a funeral”.

          • Sacha 6.1.2.1.1

            Not assuming anything about affiliations. When you attack a politician, it will be painted as political no matter what you intended.

            I feel sorry that the lack of effective organised opposition over the last 5 years couldn’t provide this man with more meaningful vehicles for his anger.

            • Rosemary McDonald 6.1.2.1.1.1

              “I feel sorry that the lack of effective organised opposition over the last 5 years couldn’t provide this man with more meaningful vehicles for his anger.”

              You make a good point Sacha…but methinks this angry man has the right to express his grief as he sees fit. It’s not as if he threw an obnoxious substance….it was just uncooked batter.

              Give him a more appropriate platform…? How?

              How about get him and Jayden’s Mum to write their rage in chalk upon the ground….?

              Gerry Brownlee quite rightly deserves to be the focus of rage from the Christchurch disaffected.

            • Sabine 6.1.2.1.1.2

              but you see this might just be the thing.

              he is not politically affiliated at all, and as such did this not as a political opposition, but as a personal thing.

              While a thousand other demonstrators went there as an effectively organised opposition and are not talked about it at all. T’is must be the National Rent – a – crowd thing. It can’t be named, because it is effective it is organised, and they look like they gave their Party Vote to National in 2014.

              And we all know that in this country, no National Voter would ever be unhappy with National?

              • Et Tu Brute

                Well considering everything I’ve read about him it seems to be more the case of a very troubled man who lost his son, has fast criminal convictions, who has trouble with people around him and he did something stupid. He sort of needs support as much as anything.

                As for motives I don’t think you can ascribe rational thought to someone who acts irrationally. He never owned property in Christchurch and his son didn’t like with him at the time of the earthquake (the son had been given to an aunt). He never struggled with EQC or insurance companies or the rebuild. He didn’t even stay in Christchurch after the earthquake. He moved to Greymouth.

                So I think we can point the finger as much as we like but sometimes we just have to accept irrational people do irrational things and they need help.

                • Gangnam Style

                  And where should he get help Et Tu Brute?

                • Sabine

                  As i said above, i think he did it out of his own personal reasons. I have no issue with that.

                  However, i think the thousand odd people that showed up to demonstrate and hold placards and the likes, were politically organised and motivated.
                  And looking at the results of the last election, even if some of these protesters may have voted for a Labour Candidate (3 Labour MP’s vs 2 National MP’s) they most will also have voted Party Vote National.

                  That is what we are not talking about here, the protesters that are equally unhappy with National MP Brownlee and the National Party led Government of NZ and their handling of CHCH.

                  As for the guy throwing the chocolate batter at Mr. Brownlee MP National, one can have an affinity to a City without having to have a property there, one can be touched by human suffering without having to witness that suffering, one can love a son like one should love a son even if he does not live with his father, and one can move from the city after the quakes, and I know a few who did, mainly out of frustration of having to deal with an administration that seems to only care about convention centres and sports stadiums, and those who did moved away today consider themselves lucky, and one can suffer pstd long after having moved away from a disaster zone etc etc etc.

                  Fact is, Brownlee and his National led Government were given the stinky finger in CHCH. After some MP’s and the PM were booed at a family friendly street party, after some National MP was having a dildo thrown at him.
                  Maybe the National MP”s and their National Party led government would care to think about why these things are happening to them.

        • Venezia 6.1.2.2

          That throwing muck episode was not done ” at the equivalent of a funeral” – it was after the commemorative event.

      • Rosie 6.1.3

        +1 Sabine

    • Anne 6.2

      In agreement Sacha @ 5

      Physical attacks on politicians no matter how well deserved are totally counter-productive. That doesn’t mean one can’t feel sympathy for the assailant who had clearly reached the end of his tether. I am reminded of the occasion when someone tried to jump off the parliamentary debating chamber gallery. I suspect a similar sad scenario.

      For lprent or moderator:
      I left a comment about the RNZ face book comments which has disappeared into oblivion. I would appreciate someone digging it out of the spam hole?

    • Venezia 6.3

      No – it was not ” during a solemn ceremony commemorating the dead” Sacha, it was after the said ceremony had ended, as people were dispersing from the event.

      • Sacha 6.3.1

        If he had waited until Brownlee was at his next engagement, fine. Having a crack when the guy has just left his seat and is walking past yours will be reported by any media outlet as *at* the event. Damage done.

  7. the stretch has stretched and when it cannot stretch anymore it breaks – don’t blame it for breaking rather blame those pulling and pulling and stretching it too much

    I won’t condemn these actions – it is a natural consequence of how desperate and severe people feel and a reality we will have to live with until we actually address the real issues.

    • McGrath 7.1

      So you condone assault?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1

        No, he doesn’t. He points out that it’s a forseeable consequence.

        Remember that rich guy who wrote the article expressing his concerns about pitchforks? Was he condoning lynch mobs?

      • Macro 7.1.2

        Your comment is an assault to my sensibility.
        Brownlee’s inaction has been a constant assault on the people of Chch.
        So he gets a litre of chocolate batter back in return?
        Got off lightly imo.

        • Don't worry. Be happy 7.1.2.1

          What will John Oliver say? Loathed over weight politician has chocolate batter thrown at him…oh you Kiwis….

          • Macro 7.1.2.1.1

            Yes I have been wondering what John Oliver would (or will) make of it! :)We seem to be supplying him with a good lot of material lately. Maybe this could be a new export enterprise? Idiot politicians to be lampooned unmercifully.

            • Stuart Munro 7.1.2.1.1.1

              If Trump wins the political idiot market will go the way of dairy – lots of stink but no profit.

              • Macro

                hehehe
                MInd you the other two on the right aren’t much better!
                The one thing Trump has going for him is that he is not in the pocket of the Koch Bros.

      • Ffloyd 7.1.3

        McGrath. Did you condone key’s 10 assaults on a waitress in her place of work who was not protected on any of the occasions by either her employers or the police who PROTECT key. How is that tickety boo?

      • plumington 7.1.4

        Getting splashed with a bit of “kitchen products” assault?
        Better watch out for an influx of kitchen Wizz before the courts ,might help sercos profit margin as well

  8. Sabine 8

    What i find most interesting in all of this throwing business is that it is coming from the People in CHCH.

    So essentially those that want to paint the demonstrators with the left brush, is saying that CHCH is full of lefties? However in the last election CHCH went National?

    Could it be that there might be some disgruntled National Voters in CHCH. Clutch yer pearls, and say it ain’t so, and Labour did it too also!!!!

  9. One Anonymous Bloke 9

    Poverty is violence.

    It’s hypocritical to condemn the National Party for attacking New Zealanders and then condone assaults on politicians.

    …and then there’s this little gem… we don’t know how lucky we are, apparently. Be grateful for your overlords.

    • Sabine 9.1

      Maybe the assaults on politians would not happen if the daily attacks on New Zealanders, in form of budget cuts, reduced services, out right lies, a not listening government etc etc etc would not happen in the first place.

      Again, as I said above, and as others have said aswell, eventually the fabric that holds us together breaks, and when that happens it is going to be unpleasant for all not just the poor.

      So maybe, maligning over half of the country is not a good idea, maybe only ‘affording a brighter future” for the ones that are like them is not a good idea, maybe cutting Mental Health Care in a city full of survivors is not a good idea, maybe maybe maybe.

      Who wuld’ave’thung, apperantly not the National Party.

      Ever wondered why Marie Antoinette lost her head?
      Not because she expected people to eat cake in absence of anything else to eat,
      Not because she had the only cake in town,
      but because she insisted in eating that cake all by herself.
      This I was told by a french person a few years back, and this is still as true as it was when Marie Antoinette lost her head.

      Our current National led Government does well to remember that it also represents the people that it tends to not give a shit about. So when that not giving a shit comes back at them they only have themselves to blame.

      In saying that, maybe you are snarking, and I just don’t see it 🙂

      • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1

        The original violence: the poverty, as well as being a direct assault in itself, fosters further violence along the way.

        Schadenfreude is inappropriate: we’re all diminished by this.

        • Sabine 9.1.1.1

          i don’t even have Schadenfreude about this.

          But I can understand where the anger comes from. And if nothing is done about this (and i don’t think doing something by throwing the book of law against this guy or the chick that threw the dildo is gonna do anything good), it will get worse.

          The people booing, the people turning their backs, throwing dildos and bucket loads of chocolate are not revolutionaries, they are not militants, they are citizens, taxpayers, consumers, kiwis, parents etc etc that are fed up with an elite who gives not a shite about them.

          And when that sentiment about having no value to the elite becomes mainstream shit is gonna hit the fan.

          And no, i don’t feel diminished by the guys that boo and throw dildos and buckets of chocolate. I feel sadness that this is the last thing these people have left in their arsenal, to get a reaction from a government that literally for the last 8 years has thrown anybody who does not tow the line, or who has become expendable under the bus, calling them moochers, loosers, abusers, thiefs, etc etc etc.

          • JonL 9.1.1.1.1

            Just be thankful it’s not bullets or bombs being thrown. Just look at world history and ignore it at your peril….

        • McGrath 9.1.1.2

          Your’s is the voice of reason as there are no winners in all of this.

          • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.2.1

            Not surprised that the ruling establishment find the fact that there can be real, physical pushback rather uncomfortable.

            But as someone already mentioned, history is a teacher, and the examples in history are there for the ruling establishment to learn from – or not – as the case may be.

            Frankly I am pleasantly surprised that they are not charging this guy under anti-terrorism legislation. And that’s what the ruling establishment put it in place for: to crush democratic dissent.

  10. One Two 10

    It is not about condoning, condemning or endorsing

    It is about human beings reacting to the situations they are being forced into causing stress and endangerment to their, and their family, friends, community well-being

    Those who seek to label and name people who react, are the ones who should be observed most closely

    For they are the allies of those who are responsible for the causes of stress, suffering and endangerment to human life

  11. Rosie 11

    Some are concerned not so much with stuff being thrown at Brownlee but the fact that it happened during (during?) a remembrance ceremony. Grief has many facets, not just a sense of sorrow and loss and can’t always be contained and held by society’s protocols.

    Here’s my explanation to Karen on Open Mike, yesterday/today regarding time and place;

    Open Mike 22/02/2016

  12. Sabine 12

    actually i would ask people to watch this clip on the Stuff Page.

    Go guess if this guy is a left or a right winger, go guess if he is a National/Labour/Non voter.

    But then ask yourself if he does not have a point or two, and ask yourself if the National Party in its arrogance did not ask to be treated that way.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/77169484/Gerry-Brownlee-protestor-lost-son-in-quake?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    • Rosie 12.1

      “Go guess if this guy is a left or a right winger, go guess if he is a National/Labour/Non voter.”

      Exactly. He’s a person whose fatigued, exasperated and grieving. A person.

      • Magisterium 12.1.1

        …a convicted paedophile who hasn’t lived in Christchurch in five years.

        • joe90 12.1.1.1

          convicted paedophile

          AFAIK he isn’t.

          He knowingly possessed objectionable material, for which he was convicted.

          • Magisterium 12.1.1.1.1

            And why was the material objectionable? It displayed sex acts involving children and toddlers.

            What do we call people who have a sexual attraction to children? Paedophilia.

            • weka 12.1.1.1.1.1

              It’s not illegal to be sexually attracted to children.

              Sexually abusing children, and using child porn are two different crimes.

            • Ffloyd 12.1.1.1.1.2

              Magi blah blah blah, What do we call people who have an attraction to running their fingers through little girl’s pony tails?

        • plumington 12.1.1.2

          Paedophile in actual act or having images on a computer
          All the same soul destroying stuff
          Brownlee has actually affected lives in Christchurch with inaction and sheer incompetence
          Let him without sin cast the first kitchen products (stone)

  13. Puckish Rogue 13

    My sympathy for the guy has just dimmed a little:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/8192821/Child-sex-acts-were-on-computer

    • mac1 13.1

      So, an issue peripheral to his act of desperation is used to denigrate all that has happened to this man; and is used to obscure why he has acted as he did.

      Meanwhile, a man in Northland still walks free and untainted by his offending, protected by court order…………………..

      Remind me again please why people are angry?

      • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1

        He hasn’t lived in Christchurch for five years yet hes still carrying a grudge against someone who clearly isn’t to blame for what happened and add in the fact he enjoys watching child porn I don’t mind suggesting hes probably not in the right frame of mind

        As for whats happening in Northland I don’t know what you’re talking about, do you have any more information or link perhaps?

        [lprent: I’d point out that I also target people trying to instigate violation of suppression orders on this site. ]

        • Sabine 13.1.1.1

          i think the Northland thingy pertains to …..Voldemort – :).

          I think he is something akin to a National disgrace, but one can never really know what a is a National disgrace and b. if he is not a National stereotype. You know that is the thing with Voldemort, while many find him abhorrent, many also like him and become death eaters.

        • mac1 13.1.1.2

          There is still an interim court order for name suppression of the man until trial in April 2016. I found the links. So can you.

          [lprent: That is getting close to the bounds of the detail I’d permit before I start banning people for endangering this site.

          For everyone’s information. I really wish the bloody courts would give us the details of suppression orders so we knew what they are and what is permissible. As it is we’re subject to rumor. So my instinct is to just ban anyone who appears to be talking about violating a suppression order. I think a year is a good period of time. ]

      • Rosie 13.1.2

        +1 mac1.

        I’d add the difference between the way we view the crimes of men like John Howland and the “Prominent NZer” is to do with their status in society, and how we perceive one persons offending to be more acceptable, or of a type that we can make excuses for is because of that status.

        Prominent NZer’s victims have had their justice delayed for years now because of status, yet who does PR make more noise about?

        • BM 13.1.2.1

          The “Prominent NZer” has not had a trial, they could be innocent.

          • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.1.1

            I have always liked your optimistic streak :mrgreen:

          • linda 13.1.2.1.2

            they could be innocent thats not your take on David bain bm and he has been found innocent hypocrite!

            • BM 13.1.2.1.2.1

              I’ve never commented on David Bains innocence or guilt.

              Scott Watson and Mark Lundy though, talk about getting stitched up.

              • reason

                Mark Lundley is guilty as sin …………….

                The pathologist mucked up the time of death due to the lack of digestion of Mcdonalds ( is it real food ?), and the police built the first case around an impossible time frame ………..

                Regarding the chocolate attack on Brownlee ………… Scum attacks scum could describe it if we are going to attach pejorative language.

                I have very strong views on raising children and pedophiles need to be punished, rehabilitated or locked away forever if they are can not be rehabilitated.

                But personally I find war mongers with the resultant deaths, mutilations and destruction of children and families that war creates to be as bad as pedophiles….

                As bad or worse even …….. because the scale of misery can run into the millions with war ….. I think posters like Puckish Rouge instead of getting a hard on over the latest military hardware ……… should watch a video like this and look at what war is good for http://johnpilger.com/videos/vietnam-still-americas-war

                Back to the subject of this thread: ……could this bring our government down?? ………… “A political party dedicated to irresponsibility, and offering no promises” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/352559.stm

                custard pie terrorists …………… Dairy whip devils

        • Puckish Rogue 13.1.2.2

          You want me to make noise about someone presumed innocent? How about we wait for a decision first?

          • mac1 13.1.2.2.1

            Puckish Rogue, David Bain was acquitted of murder, and is therefore innocent. We waited for the decision and got it finally, but knowing that, you wrote the following in a comment on another thread.

            “and not explain why he washed his clothes after the paper run.”

            You’re still doubting a man found, note found, innocent by a court.

            • Puckish Rogue 13.1.2.2.1.1

              I accept the courts decision he was found not guilty, I disagree with it but I accept it. I’m stating why he shouldn’t get compensation.

              • mac1

                So he’s not guilty but doesn’t meet your standards of proof? You still doubt it, let’s face it, and you don’t accept it, because you won’t go the extra step of recognising an innocent man’s years of imprisonment. Not only that, but this government had to go shopping for another judge to get a decision that suited its purpose.

                It seems that only this government’s mates can get handouts, like South Canterbury Finance, Saudi businessmen and a PM desperate to get a flag change to give his tenure in office some lasting and positive recognition, instead of being booed, jeered and publicly scorned.

                As I asked above, “Remind me again please why people are angry?”

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I accept that legally he was found not guilty but I still think hes a murderer.

                  He wants compensation then lets see him get in a chair and answer some questions first.

        • mac1 13.1.2.3

          Yes, Rosie, my concerns as well.

  14. ianmac 14

    Really sad for this guy. Chocolate and flour. Lost son. Feeling helpless.
    The off shoot will be that Ministers will be escorted by guards like Key has. Be an excuse for MPs to not be in direct contact with the Public/US.
    All so sad.

    • Sabine 14.1

      they are already not in direct contact with the us the populace, not so sure about the US ( career options after teh middle management stint in NZ? )

      Going to a memorial service is not in direct contact with the public. it is a public appearance, carefully managed, with security details, a quick in and a quick out thank you ma’am. And Gone.

      No contact there with any of the public. Sound bites for TV. Sadly for them it did not work.
      And if we stopped focusing on this guy and actually mentioned the thousand or so other protesters that came to make themselves heard?

    • Sabine 14.2

      ingredients for a chocolate cake that has not been baked for 5 years.
      yes, that is sad.

    • weka 14.3

      I’m concerned about that too ianmac. I suspect that National will use this and the dildo throw as an excuse to overreact on personal security as well as security at public events. Not good.

      There was also the attempted firebombing of National Party offices.

  15. Tautuhi 15

    Obviously the guys rubber band has snapped, it is a mental health issue, extreme stress does strange things with the mind, especially when you have lost a loved one?

    I am definitely not a big fan of Jeremy Brownlee especially when he told us he could count to 10 in Maori, hopefully he has learn’t to count to 20 by now.

    Only in New Zealand would you put a Primary School Woodwork Teacher in charge of a rebuild of a major city?

  16. Bill 16

    Too far, my arse!

    What if it had been ice-cream? Or a dildo? Or a fake dildo?

    and what does it have to do with left/right? Answer = sweet fuck all.

    I’ll tell you what went ‘too far’ for me. Andrew Little’s expression of condolence to Gerry Brownlie was a step beyond. He could have continued his exchange with the woman he was speaking to, but it seems he felt a natural urge to reach out to ‘one of his own’ in a moment of discomfort…revealing.

    And that one he reached out to has taken decisions and contributed to decisions that have killed and maimed countless numbers of people. Just one obvious and concrete example is the numbers who’s lives will be blighted by asbestosis because he and his government wouldn’t take the necessary steps needed to safeguard society in the aftermath of the Christchurch quake. Of course, they’ll be out of office or dead by the time the effects of their actions and in-actions hit home.

    If he had been stabbed or whatever, then sure – different matter. But a guy throwing a pile of the shit (liquifaction?) he is forced to live in and has been living in for the past five years…whatever. That Brownlie feigns ignorance as to what the guys “gripe” might be? Sickening.

    In a sane world Brownlie wouldn’t be allowed within a hundred miles of Christchurch at any time…and would be fully aware of why.

    (rant over)

    • Roflcopter 16.1

      In a sane world Brownlie wouldn’t be allowed within a hundred miles of Christchurch at any time…and would be fully aware of why.

      Why the fuck not? He fucking lives there, which makes the whole event even worse.

      During the event his house was wrecked, still isn’t fixed and is dealing with the issues just like others…. all the while he’s putting that aside and trying to deal with the bigger problem (even though it isn’t up to everyone’s expectations).

      Little’s response to Gerry shows that Little understands this…

      • Sacha 16.1.1

        “During the event his house was wrecked, still isn’t fixed ”

        Really? Got any links to stories including that? Thought he owned multiple properties.

      • Bill 16.1.2

        Wanna give me the names of the people who were responsible for there being no precautionary measures taken in spite of the huge amounts of asbestos post quake?

        Wanna provide the names of those who declined to put internationally recognised post quake health systems and measures in place?

        Wanna provide the names of those cutting mental health funding for Christchurch even as mental health issues spiral?

        Here’s a clue – “Henry of Christchurch” and his cronies plus, it has to be said, those in parliament who enabled them.

  17. Stuart Munro 17

    Mob action against bad government is to be anticipated and, though it is deplorable it reflects infinitely worse on the bad government than on the people obliged to protest by other means by corrupt and unresponsive government.

    PR doesn’t consider the role of Brownlee’s failings because he is a traitor and an enthusiastic supporter of corrupt government. Dishonest? Inhuman? Stupid? Abusive? Join the Gnats, and PR will shill for you. Napier was rebuilt in two years – Gerry is only three years late with more than 40% not even begun.

    • Puckish Rogue 17.1

      You can’t compare Napier with Christchurch:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4811992/What-Napier-can-teach-Christchurch-about-earthquake-recovery

      and as for being a traitor well you really don’t know me at all 🙂

      • Stuart Munro 17.1.1

        You uncritically support the dishonest actions of the extreme right in every circumstance – I know you well enough.

        • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1

          No you really don’t 🙂

          • Stuart Munro 17.1.1.1.1

            So what great purpose animates the empty husk of your humanity PR – and like MacBeth’s wife’s ambition somehow (in your crazy far right dreams) absolves you?

            • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Well heres the thing, I have three (entitled to wear four) medals from my service in the military that tells me I don’t need to answer to you or indeed justify why I’m not a traitor

              • Add another long service award for unthinking service to the National Party through thick and thin, right and wrong.

              • Stuart Munro

                Is any of them an Iron Cross?

                [lprent: Don’t godwin a debate even as humour. It just pisses me off. ]

                • Magisterium

                  GODWIN’D

                  • Stuart Munro

                    There are medals and medals – I don’t think we’re chatting with Willie Apiata here – but he is making a claim.

                    The Iron Cross has some respect in spite of the government of those days – like the VC, not many keyboard warriors would claim to have earned one.

                    From his denial we learn something about him – perhaps whether he is still serving – or where he served. Which may or may not affect the way we subsequently interpret his comments. It’s a long game strategy – but now he will clam up for a while.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Do you acknowledge the possibility that your loyalty to right wing dogma is stronger than your loyalty to your country?

                If you believe the dogma you doubtless conflate the two, so you will find it difficult to answer the question objectively.

                It has to be considered though, especially in one for whom the chains of command feel so familiar.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Do you acknowledge the possibility that your loyalty to right wing dogma is stronger than your loyalty to your country?

                  – I acknowledge there is a possibility but no it isn’t

                  It has to be considered though, especially in one for whom the chains of command feel so familiar.

                  – No it really doesn’t

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    …because if it were stronger, treachery would be just one reflexive justification away.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Theres plenty of people on here that want violent uprisings and insurrections so I wouldn’t worry about me

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      “Plenty”.

                      🙄

                      Do homeless New Zealanders have anything to fear from you? Why yes, they do: that you’ll continue to prop up the party that blames them for their circumstances.

                    • vto

                      “Do homeless New Zealanders have anything to fear from you? ”

                      Fuck yes.

                      They fear everything from this right wing bunch….

                      banned from public grounds
                      no private grounds to go to
                      removal of any state assistance
                      sale of state houses
                      opprobrium rather than compassion
                      anger rather than empathy
                      police doing the government’s bidding
                      government blaming the poor for being poor

                      The poor in New Zealand has everything to fear from National Party members

                  • Stuart Munro

                    Soldiers – and sailors – tend to develop loyalty not so much to the chain of command or the country but to each other.

              • Sabine

                medals mean nothing, every country – no matter how good or bad – hands out medals to its soldiers.
                After all they need to tell them that they did the right thing by joining the army and being a good obedient soldier, going to war, killing heeps of other people, or saving a few of their own.

                Lot’s of medals given out in the world wars, lots of medal given out in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, etc etc.
                Often medals are the only thing a mother gets when the son has died.

                One can be buried alive under medals and still be a traitor. These two are not mutually exclusive.

                and all of this has got nothing to do with your service.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Medals do actually mean something, whether for good or bad so you’re completely in the wrong.

                  It means something to the person awarded them, the family receiving them, relatives wearing them to feel a connection, it always means something even if what it means is sometimes negative

                  I’m truly sorry you can’t look past your own prejudices and see that, I really do feel sorry for you.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    They’re irrelevant to your capacity for treachery. Most of the people who’ve participated in military coups probably have them, for example.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      That’s true but speaking for myself then they mean something to me and my service to my country means something to me

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    So, we’ve established that your decorations are irrelevant to your capacity for treachery.

                    What about your familiarity with the chains of command and trained deference to authority?

                  • Sabine

                    Considering that the ladies in my family had a lot of medals, (they got them for birthing sons for the father land) that eventually all got hung on the wall next to the picture of a dead son together with their medals, i can assure you that medals mean nothing – at least not in my family, and we have a few cool medals. But, They don’t bring back the son, they don’t alleviate the pain, but they do give someone something to hold onto, when they sit in their empty flats mourning the husbands, childrens and wifes who are not gonna come home anymore.

                    I was not implying anything about you and your service, hence my last line stating that. IF you care to actually read.

                    But i stand by what I aid, that medals have been given to traitors, and many times medal have been handed out by traitors. And that to receive a medal, one must be a obedient good soldier. Do they have meaning to you? Why not. You must have been a good and an obedient soldier to get them, you earned them.
                    But that is as far as their meaning goes.

        • Tautuhi 17.1.1.2

          Professional Troll

    • Et Tu Brute 17.2

      Stuart are you the same Stuart Munro that said on Facebook regarding Gerry Brownlee: “Frankly I’m surprised Brownlee hasn’t been axe-murdered – he hasn’t done his job and he is a singularly unlovely individual – a soulmate for Whaleoil.”?

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 17.3

      That’s stupid.

      If I do a shit on Trevor Mallard it’s his fault? You drove me to it, Trev.

      There is the edge. And then there is the abyss. You guys are in it,

      • Stuart Munro 17.3.1

        You have to distinguish between actively causing harm or not.

        If Trevor’s stupidity and malice offends you that’s all on you – though you can blog about it.

        If his cloned moas wreck your house and the insurance companies won’t pay (cloned moa’s … yeah right they snigger) you have some justification.

    • dave 17.4

      an mob doesn’t come with left wing or right wing p[political ideas there simply known as the mob they turn up and torch your car or business brown-lee got off l political leaders who piss the mob off can have a very bad day think of the day when it comes when the open bank resolution pol;icy is enacted

      • Stuart Munro 17.4.1

        Agreed – mobs are somewhat dangerous – on the other hand they’re pretty good at cutting through the bullshit. And the bullshit around Brownlee is pretty much as thick as it gets.

  18. Gosman 18

    I suggest that the majority of people who think the Facebook page abuse is likely to be a ‘false flag’ “dirty politics” campaign by right wingers are hard core lefties.

    However it does provide you a great opportunity to blow open the “dirty politics” tactics if true. Show these people are made up or at least plants and you will have proven your point.

    somehow I doubt this will happen.

    • Puckish Rogue 18.1

      I wouldn’t hold your breath, easier to throw the smear out there then it is to go ahead and prove it

      • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1.1

        Well that’s how it works: it isn’t as though Hooton is going to investigate his claims, eh.

        The fact that he’s making them at all is straight out of the ratfucking playbook.

        • Gosman 18.1.1.1

          You have got to love how some of the left turn this around so that it is not beholden or even in their interests to show that this is a ‘false flag’ set up but just assume that it must be and it is up to others to show otherwise.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1.1.1.1

            You’re conflating me with some, unless I’m very much mistaken, and thanks for your concern all the same: it’s so shiny and sincere.

            No wait: you have exhibited the same pattern of dishonesty for the last eight years at least.

            I’m beginning to get the feeling that nothing you say can be trusted.

    • joe90 18.2

      are hard core lefties

      Yeah, it’s quite the coincidence Cam’s involved.
      /

      Dodgy reviews

      • Roflcopter 18.2.1

        How do you reconcile that the posters of the filth have been on Facebook well before Campbell even went to RNZ?

        • Puckish Rogue 18.2.1.1

          Doesn’t matter, the dirts been spread and that’s good enough

        • weka 18.2.1.2

          “How do you reconcile that the posters of the filth have been on Facebook well before Campbell even went to RNZ?”

          Not all posters were part of Dirty Politics (yes, there are people who genuinely hate without being politically aligned).

          Bogus accounts have been set up ahead of time.

          RL people are happy to be part of the wider DP action.

          etc.

          Use your imagination, it’s not that hard.

    • Stuart Munro 18.3

      Actually it’s not just the the false flag meme has been practically copyrighted by Cam Slater – it’s that anti-semite groups and the Left really don’t have much to do with each other. In fact the 88s tend to attach themselves to violent rightwingers. NZ doesn’t have much along the lines of the US neonazi crime gangs – for all that some violent types co-opt the symbols for scare value.

      If there are genuine hate attacks attacks targeting one of the PM’s facebook shrines, and the posters are NZ based, they are more likely the work of recent discoverers of conspiracy evidence than classical neo-nazis.

      Why Standard readers should care is hard to know, neither they nor Key visit those pages. Are we responsible for the graffitti under every bridge too? Besides which, under the extended powers of SIS & GCSB that Key has never failed to abuse, the identity of such people is no secret at all. If they are not charged or subjected to an illegal search and computer confiscations like Nicky Hager it is reasonable to assume that there is less than no substance in the whole affair.

  19. vto 20

    Boos for Key

    Poos for Brownlee

    Dildos for Baggins

    Glitter for PM

    there is without doubt a movement going on.

    small

    but watch out or someone might cop a squishy banana for goodness sake

    karma

    • b waghorn 20.1

      I wonder if the right wing brain at any point goes “hmmm it might just be something we’re doing that causes this reaction”

      • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1

        Nice way to shift the blame, well done 🙂

        • b waghorn 20.1.1.1

          Go fuck yourself PR I never shifted the blame .

          • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.1.1

            “hmmm it might just be something we’re doing that causes this reaction”

            – yeah you just did

            • b waghorn 20.1.1.1.1.1

              As this country is becoming more divided , more people are on the skids , hate and anger coming from all directions do not think it would be good for those running the show to stop and have a little internal look around just in case its there actions causing it??
              As I’m moderately left (I guess) I have know idea how someone who thinks right sees these issues so I asked a question.

        • vto 20.1.1.2

          No the blame hasn’t been shifted, it has always been with the subjectee.

          Do you expect that human beings will just keep being shat on PR?

          Can you tell me at what point it is ok to rise up physically against an oppressor?

          • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.2.1

            Theres a difference between being oppressed and thinking you’re being oppressed (and in some cases wanting to be oppressed)

            Can you vote?
            Are you entitled to welfare system the envy of most of the world?
            Public health system?
            Housing supplied?

            Yeah that’s real oppression, we (yes including you) are the 1% in comparison to the rest of the world

            • vto 20.1.1.2.1.1

              answer the question chicken..

              or are you exhibiting the very characteristic of right wing idiots that b waghorn and I have just considered?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Let me guess how this would play out:

                I would say something like when the government acts in an illegal manner

                You would say haha the government is acting just like that and then give an example which shows the government isn’t like that but you’ll claim it is

                I mean really is that the best you can do?

                • vto

                  it is an entirely reasonable question, especially in a forum like this. In fact to not ask it would be remiss in a forum like this

                  answer the frikkin question chicken …….. bok bok ,……

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Theres a difference between being oppressed and thinking you’re being oppressed (and in some cases wanting to be oppressed)

                    Did you read that vto? According to PR some Kiwis out there just want to be shat on, impoverished and mistreated by the ruling establishment.

                    • vto

                      Yep I did. What PR has done in this little mini-thread is provide ample evidence of the matter that b waghorn considered at the start….

                      namely wondering whether right wing nutters actually think properly

                      they don’t of course… unless it is in a very concentrated manner with no influences to complicate the whirring of such tiny cogs …. such as thinking about how to concentrate money exclusively in their hands.

            • Stuart Munro 20.1.1.2.1.2

              Can you vote?

              National disenfranchises prisoners and expatriates

              Are you entitled to welfare system the envy of most of the world?

              Welfare system becomes dysfunctional to the point that staff are murdered and large numbers abandon the system for grey economy

              Public health system?

              Cut repeatedly and to deteriorate further under TPPA in preparation for sale for which no public mandate exists

              Housing supplied?

              Public housing not maintained and kept closed and empty awaiting foreign buyers.

        • Gosman 20.1.1.3

          Oh my golly gosh!

          A lefty has actually accepted the possibility that another lefty might have done the things that they are accused of doing rather than it being some elaborate “dirty politics” tactic to smear the left in general.

          I think I need a sit down…

        • Ffloyd 20.1.1.4

          PR. What do you mean by *shifting the blame* What blame?

      • vto 20.1.2

        Of course not. They are like the gun lobby in the US – they think more guns will solve the problem of too many guns.

        They will unthinkingly double-down.

        Like tv3’s Story presenter (not Garner) who a few nights ago when pondering why NZers wont go and pick apples in Hawkes Bay came up with the answer that the dole must be too high….

        ffs, talk about ignorant…..

        they
        just
        can’t
        think

      • “I wonder if the right wing brain at any point goes”hmmm it might just be something we’re doing that causes this reaction””.

        Last time I heard that argument it was David Irving. About Jews.

        Ever tried using this argument on, say, a rape victim?

        • b waghorn 20.1.3.1

          You and PR have proved that the answer is no ,no they don’t.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 20.1.3.1.1

            Fucking Jews. Amiright!

            [lprent: You have worn that godwin style argument out since you were the one who raised it. It appeared to have nothing to do with the post or the comments you were responding to.

            Save it for when it is in context, otherwise I will demonstrate my distaste for that particular style of out of context commenting.

            While I’m on the subject. Most of your recent comments over several weeks appear to have no purpose apart from baiting and no real content to assist in the discussion. I’m starting to think that you are getting bored and need some time off to refresh your ability to argue. ]

            • vto 20.1.3.1.1.1

              Hey Gormless, your fellow rwnj Puckish Rogue chickened off yesterday when asked at what point heshe considered it ‘ok’ to rise physically against an oppressor.

              Do you have an answer to it? Maybe things need to get like Syria, or even 30’s Germany, or maybe just having a local Council dong you on the head with a parking fine… it is clearly a spectrum.

              At what point is it ok to rise physically against an oppressor?

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                Hey vto,

                At the point that you do not have the right every election cycle to convince a majority of your fellow citizens to vote with you and elect the “oppressor” out.

                I know you are all disappointed at your ongoing electoral failure but it just doesn’t give you the right to resort to violence.

                And to suggest that the victims of this childish, stupid behaviour have it coming to them is beyond the pale.

                • vto

                  Hey gormless “At the point that you do not have the right every election cycle to convince a majority of your fellow citizens to vote with you and elect the “oppressor” out.”

                  ha ha ha ha ha ha ha …….. really ……..

                  like Mugabe and his elections
                  and 30’s Germany with their elections
                  and 10’s USA with their elections

                  your answer is shit

                  and wrong

                  so wrong

                  • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                    So, no value in elections, then?

                    You guys really do yourselves no good.

                    • vto

                      Sheesh man, do you fools have nothing but shallow poorly thought out one-liners and assumptions?

                      Who said no value in elections?

                      You seem to think that if there are elections then all is good. Such a fool.

                      and ignorant

                      learn some history

                      it is a waste of time engaging with such an ignoramus

                      you come across as indoctrinated and unable to think for yourself. Just as b waghorn said at the start. The evidence in support of waghorn keeps piling up.

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                      …and there I was thinking that you’d lost the plot at the point you compared New Zealand in 2016 to Germany in 1933, Zimbabwe in the 1990s and America in the Gilded Age.

                      As you apparently consider that an entirely valid comparison, and b waghorn considers victims to blame for crimes committed against them, I accept that engagement is pointless.

                    • vto

                      Sorry no. I did not compare NZ to Zimbabwe.

                      Try reading again.

                      Neither did waghorn do what you claim, as he has explained.

                      …yet more evidence of the lack of thought

                      … leave you to your small thoughts. out

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 20.1.3.1.1.2

              Hey lprent. You are going to have to help me. b waghorn is blaming the vicitm for the attack. Is it not permitted to point to other historical examples of this behaviour to point out how horrible it is? The holocaust is obviously out of bounds. Blaming rape victims? In or out?

              • b waghorn

                No no your transferring , because you and PR are dishonest little word twisters you can’t for one second think that my question was an honest attempt to have a mature conversation.

              • lprent

                That was why there was a warning. You will see that I have done it about a godwin elsewhere…

                Why your warning was a bit more pointed? Because I was looking at your recent history of comments at that point in time as I do when I notice a comment at the out of context edge. You have a recent pattern of doing one line barbs that are classic flamestarters with no signs of any engagement.

                While I primarily look at local behaviour when moderating, I also look at recent behaviour patterns and try to deal with people who are doing nothing apart from trying bait people with comments that have bugger all to do with the post or conversation.

    • rhinocrates 20.2

      Whoopee cushion on the Speaker’s chair…

    • Anne 20.3

      I have had a comforting vision from time to time… a carelessly (?) dropped banana skin which happens to fall in John Key’s path and a disappearing figure flailing helplessly as he rapidly slithers away down a slippery slope. 👿

      • tinfoilhat 20.3.1

        That is a similar type of attitude to those who laughed at Helen when she tripped over during the election campaign. I found it distasteful then and I do know it is interesting that the levels of spite and vitriol that Helen suffered during her third term seem to be mirrored with those thrown at the Nats.

        • lprent 20.3.1.1

          The question you should ask is if there is any benefit in staying aloof from the mud slinging, when all that does is to advantage the other side?

          Quite simply how are the dickheads in National and the right who were so intent on using these tactics from 2004- going to learn to desist is they never have it directed at them?

          • Anne 20.3.1.1.1

            Hey lprent. Important point you make but in second to last line … if they have… makes more sense than ‘is they have… 😐

            • lprent 20.3.1.1.1.1

              That will be a typo on a phone 🙂

              • Anne

                @ Iprent

                Tinfoilhat has made an insinuation relating to my identity. This person’s comment @ 20.3.1.2.1:

                I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone on the left of politics who you are Anne, it’s a pity your temperament and ability to communicate with others in a reasonable manner hasn’t improved over the years.

                This has no bearing on reality and suggests she (iirc she claimed once to be a she) is either under some misapprehension or has been ill informed. It’s likely to be the former. Is it acceptable that someone can throw remarks like that around and make negative connotations concerning my identity with impunity?

                Ok she doesn’t like me. That’s been clear for some time. I couldn’t care less. But she has no right to make inferences about my character and identity when she doesn’t know me from a bar of soap.

          • tinfoilhat 20.3.1.1.2

            Even by your standards that’s a particularly silly argument.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 20.3.1.1.3

            Quite simply how are the dickheads in National and the right who were so intent on using these tactics from 2004- going to learn to desist is they never have it directed at them?

            Well, I guess you deserve points for honesty, then. Not much else though, I am afraid.

            • lprent 20.3.1.1.3.1

              Why? Are you condoning the vomit inducing trolls who used to pile in here from losing and whaleoil or the vile rumours that were their tools directed against every part of the 5th Labour government?

              At least the left generally save their bile for actual problems and policies rather than the right’s philosophy if just lying.

              • I’m against behaving badly. You’re not and apparently proud of it.

                • lprent

                  I’m interested in demonstrating to fools that while bad behaviour is possible, it is a very bad idea to go ahead and do it. Except I do everything bounded by the legal system – a concept that you clearly don’t understand well, and long practice in the online communities on the net. I’m uninterested in your vague and probably self-serving ideas of what good behaviour is, because your ideas appear to be more about how to be a critic than doing anything effective.

                  I don’t turn the other check and I aim on this site to cause as much pain to bad behaviour offenders self-perception as possible to discourage future repetitions. Trolls find that I can both out-troll them and I deliberately make it very personal to have a go at their egos.

                  Outside of this site, I strategically help out wherever possible to make sure bad behaviour gets cleaned up.
                  Some of the more arcane parts of labour politics get opened to scrutiny.
                  The other side of industrial conflicts gets exposed.
                  Cameron Slater finds a steadily deepening morass forming around his past and present horrendous behaviour.
                  David Farrar and Jason Ede find that their roles are exposed.
                  Journalists who publish press releases or puff-pieces get criticised.
                  John Key and his minders in the National party find it harder manipulate an increasingly fractured media interface with rubbish information.

                  And I do these without pay and in my spare time despite having a rather heavy paid workload. All part of trying to make the world of my siblings and cousins children, grandkids, and probably great grandkids lives a bit better down the line.

                  But hey – you are a useless critic. I’m sure that you find all of that reprehensible.

        • Anne 20.3.1.2

          Strewth you’re thoughtless and stupid tfh. I recall DTB saying something similar recently when you jumped on your moral high horse over something he said. I was responding in a light hearted manner to VTO @20. Please go get yourself a sense of humour or take your holier than thou attitude elsewhere.

          Btw, Helen Clark and I go back a long way… to the days before she became a member of parliament. I will say no more for fear of identifying myself but your attempt to create a link to the abuse Helen endured and my light hearted bit of flippancy is childish.

          • tinfoilhat 20.3.1.2.1

            I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone on the left of politics who you are Anne, it’s a pity your temperament and ability to communicate with others in a reasonable manner hasn’t improved over the years.

            • Anne 20.3.1.2.1.1

              I don’t believe you have any idea who I am. I’m not well known on the left side of politics – or any side for that matter – so do tell me please who I am supposed to be. 😀

              • Tinfoilhat

                The only person who has any right to out you on the internet is yourself.

                • Anne

                  You’ve gone too far Tinfoilhat. Your comment:

                  I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone on the left of politics who you are Anne, it’s a pity your temperament and ability to communicate with others in a reasonable manner hasn’t improved over the years.

                  That makes no sense… as anyone who truly knows me would tell you. I have no public profile. Never have had a profile of any sort and strongly refute your claims.

                  So how about an apology or I shall have to place this matter into the hands of a moderator/sysop.

                  • tinfoilhat

                    “I shall have to place this matter into the hands of a moderator/sysop”

                    Anne, feel free.

  20. Shona 21

    Couldn’t have happened to a nicer bloke! Chur!

  21. whateva next? 22

    Key’s gang are masterful at polarising the people, tends to work well for Tories

    • Tautuhi 22.1

      A lot of swerve balls being bowled at the moment by the Tories, confuse the opposition?

      • whateva next? 22.1.1

        Spinning away as always, and “swerve balls” is an accurate way to describe how they operate

  22. pat 23

    Iraq population 33 million, ISIS militants est 30,000

    Afghanistan population 32 million, Taliban militants est 20-35,000

    Nigeria population 172 million, Boko Harem militants est 7-10,000

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