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Jihadi Justice

Written By: - Date published: 1:31 pm, March 6th, 2019 - 87 comments
Categories: class war, Deep stuff, International, Syria, war - Tags: , , ,

Mark Taylor, an ISIS recruit once known as the ‘bumbling Jihadi’ wants to come home to NZ. Or, at least get the hell out of the Syrian jail cell he’s currently occupying.

The Kiwi, a former soldier here in NZ, served ISIS as a guard. Or so he says, anyway. ‘I was just a guard’ has a familiar ring; it was the defence of just about everybody that ever worked in a Nazi concentration camp.

There has been a lot of teeth gnashing on the right about his potential return. There are some who think we shouldn’t issue him a fresh passport so it’s harder for him to return and even some who think we should strip Taylor of citizenship altogether.

That’s a step down a very slippery slope.

If we start denying citizenship to Kiwis who offend us, we’ll be joining a club that includes some of the world’s most oppressive states.

Far better to assist in bringing Taylor back, put him through the justice system, and then rehab him so he’s an object lesson to others who are easily led.

Of course it might be a while before he returns. First he’s got to get out of jail, find a Kiwi consulate and then find a passage back to NZ. I assume that’ll be by boat, because there won’t be many airlines willing to fly him back downunder.

Just to be clear, I have no sympathy for the man. The ‘bumbling Jihadi’ tag masks the reality. He chose to fight for ISIS, a fascistic religious terror group. He did so for self serving reasons.

And also for self serving reasons, he is very, very unlikely to detail any specific crimes he committed.

Mark Taylor should be in jail for a long, long time.

The question is whether we as a country make any effort to have that jail time served here or leave him to rot in Syria.

I think, as a civilised country, we should assume an obligation to the international community and look to clean up our own mess.

It’s the same feeling I have about Aussie 501ers deported to NZ. Australia made those criminals, and Australia should be responsible for them.

Taylor is one of ours, so we should do whatever we can to get him out of Syria and safely into our justice system.

It’s not just force of arms that defeats fascist ideologies.

Showing ourselves to be part of a morally and ethically superior way of living is equally important.

And that means showing Mark Taylor some tough love here in NZ whether we think he deserves it or not.

 

 

 

 

87 comments on “Jihadi Justice ”

  1. Gosman 1

    I’d let him in and charge him if possible with an anti-terrorism law. Didn’t we pass one to deal with people like him?

    • Sam 1.1

      The jihadi laws was invented because of him. It’s the perfect test case to see if the system truely can deradicalise a terrorist. Although if it is proven that he committed crimes against humanity ie committed executions then he’ll get preventative detention so life with out parol.

    • McFlock 1.2

      The Crimes of Torture Act might also apply. As a member of the caliphate, he might qualify as a public official.

    • CrimzonGhost 1.3

      Yeah, but then NZ taxpayer has to pay to keep him in prison. any allowance ofeventual return (if he is not subject to death penalty for his crimes in countries where he participated in crimes against humanity) should entail full confession & reporting of crimes of other ISIS operatives that he witnessed or heard about. He should be given into custody of those whom he aided in harming such as the Kurds, Yezidis, Assyrian Christians etc. If we are soft on these Jihadis and allow them back where is the deterrent to future generations. It is time for international criminals to be tried at international court under jurisdiction of UN & imprisoned in a U.N. run prison.

    • No faith 1.4

      I hope we leave him there, our justice system will be like a summer holiday compared to over there

  2. Tuppence Shrewsbury 2

    Let him in. disaffected people in 3rd world countries started this whole mess

    • TootingPopularFront 2.1

      Hmm…not sure about that, I’m reasonably confident that the US may have been involved…oh, and the UK…and the Saudis…

  3. Sanctuary 3

    He was born here.

    It would set an appalling precedent if the government were to strip him of his citizenship and leave him stateless, not to mention it is also illegal to do so under international conventions we have signed up to.

    Imagine if a right wing government had decided to strip the Kiwi Campeneros of their NZ citizenship for fighting for the Republicans in the Spanish civil war, or if the dumb righties want something a bit more relatable what if the All Blacks get eliminated in pool play at the world cup this year, and no one wants them back. Easy! Just strip them of their citizenship and let the Japanese worry about them.

    • Rae 3.1

      They can’t strip him of his citizenship as he has no right to any other country. But we do not have to assist him to get back. I am picking if not tried and punished where he is, he will be deported back anyway

      • CrimzonGhost 3.1.1

        He has a few countries that will be vying to try him …Iraq, Syria, Kurds, maybe even Turkey.

        • WeekendWarrior 3.1.1.1

          I would have thought that we could drop him off at the International Criminal Court at The Hague?

    • soddenleaf 3.2

      It’s no non issue. Just becuase he is not pregnant, not trying to feed a baby, etc the outrage at what effectively is impossible politically.

      Find a nice loyal kiwi wealth bags, ask them to fund his incarceration in the Kurdish prison. Save us the court costs. Now if he does get released who want him running out killing becayse we didn’t give him his passport back, coz some rich foriegn wealth bags will offer him money… ..terrorist need funding too. So give him a passport, its his right, get him to pss on Isis in front a camera for the price of a militrary transport coming back from the region. Then use the footage to throw the key away.

  4. Stuart Munro. 4

    There’s good reason to look at a law for removing citizenship from objectionable persons, but I believe we are signatory to agreements that would only permit that in the case of persons with multiple citizenship, like the revolting Peter Thiel, or P importers.

    This bloke’s just a young idiot, NZ produces them by the truckload. Once the Kurds are tired of feeding him, he’ll have to come home. If he wises up he may set up as a deradicalizer – an important job in some countries.

    He’s really not worth much fuss – the Key Kleptocracy did worse on a daily basis.

    • Rae 4.1

      Disagree, imagine how abused a system where you could strip your own citizens of their citizenship could be.
      Much as I think I’d like to be able to withdraw granted citizenship to an immigrant, I think even that could be a slippery slope

      • Stuart Munro. 4.1.1

        I agree there is potential for abuse. Likewise however, newly granted citizenships have been featuring excessively of late in crimes like systematic underpayment of employees, and the importation of drugs, which are causing both considerable harm and costs to our justice and health systems.

        The capacity to remove citizenship, even if rarely exercised, might go some way towards discouraging such license.

        • Rae 4.1.1.1

          I think the operative words there are probably “newly granted”, maybe something could be put in place, but have a time limit on it, like a “trial citizenship” for x amount of time

          • Stuart Munro. 4.1.1.1.1

            In principle residency should work that way – but it doesn’t seem to.

        • Lucy 4.1.1.2

          Someone who is born in NZ should always be able to come back as this is where they stand! Granted citizenship should be able to be removed for specific crimes, but these do need to be specified. Mr Taylor should be able to return – I have seen bits of his interviews and feel that he has more than a few issues that would be better sorted out in the health system rather than the justice system.

    • TomPained 4.2

      +1

  5. Michelle 5

    the national party are denying a NZer the right to return to his own country this is bad and this approach has the potential to set a very bad precedent if we go down that path what next send the tangata whenua to islands like they use to do when they owned two island right here

    • Bewildered 5.1

      National are not denying him the ability to return home (fake news) they are just saying get home under your own steam, the tax payer is not paying for it The strategy is no different Thsn Ardern approach to the sick kiwi who died in Bali, here having sympathy for plight of this individual I have no real issue in regard to you go overseas look after yourself in regard to individual responsibility

    • alwyn 5.2

      How do you justify these words?
      “the national party are denying a NZer the right to return to his own country”
      The only comment I have seen from Simon Bridges was exactly in step with the views of the Government.
      As far as I can see this comment of yours is a lie.

    • Stuart Munro. 5.3

      You’d think they’d have more sympathy really.

      This fellow wants to impose his religious views on others without their consent, and the Gnats want impose their failed economic views on others without their consent.

    • James 5.4

      National are doing that ?. Really?

      How do they do this from opposition- overruling the government?

      Or are you talking bullshit and completely uninformed on the subject ?

    • Rae 5.5

      He has every right to return here, he just has no right to expect us to cough up to get him here

  6. Chris T 6

    It would look extremely bad Ardern going hell for leather to get him home after refusing to help the sick women who died in Bali.

  7. I’m not sure why people can’t have some sort of empathy for the guy, he’s clearly unwell if his ex wife’s statements are anything to go by. And according to an anon. relative he suffered brain damage as a child resulting in him attending a ‘Special school’.

    Though given our reluctance as a society to understand or deal with the number of people in our prisons suffering similar levels of damage including from fetal alcohol syndrome I shan’t hold my breath for any understanding any time soon.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/111028054/mark-taylors-former-wife-gives-portrait-of-kiwi-jihadist-jailed-in-turkish-prison

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/jailed-kiwi-jihadist-mark-taylor-suffered-brain-damage-child-relative-says?variant=tb_v_1

    • joe90 7.1

      Empathy for a guy who showed his true interests when he ditched his partner and young family in search of multiple Muslim wives and his main regret was that he wasn’t able to purchase a Yazidi woman as a slave? I don’t fucking think so!

      Personally, I’d let him rot in Syria….but at the very least he should enjoy the hospitality of Paremoremo’s d block for a goodly part of the rest of his natural alongside the likes of William Bell and Graham Burton.

    • Jimmy 7.2

      They probably can’t have empathy for him because he wanted a sex slave (pity he couldn’t afford one) and promoted attacking police etc. in NZ. He could be more dangerous than you give him credit for as ISIS kept him alive…if he is really as “damaged” as you say, ISIS would not have kept him alive.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 7.2.1

        It annoyed the shit out of me when they started indexing slave prices to inflation and not tax cuts

    • Rae 7.3

      I kind of agree, but even so, I think it would go down like a cup of cold sick

  8. ken 8

    He may be a dropkick, but he’s our dropkick.
    If he can pay his own way, let him come back and send him for some “reprogramming”.

  9. Bewildered 9

    If he gets back here on his own steam lock him up with a toy doll for a slave otherwise forget about him. As CT above indicates Jacinda has a precedent here she can stand behind

  10. Nah , bring him home here, put him on trial and deal with it that way.

    Whether we like it or not hes our responsibility.

    Them’s the breaks.

    • Rae 10.1

      You’d need to be sure you had an airtight case against the guy before you went anywhere near that

  11. RedLogix 11

    The problem with over using words like vile an outrageous is that you are left speechless when trying to describe ISIS.

    Mark Taylor is a good example of a unwell and vulnerable person becoming ideologically possessed. Absolutely he will be held accountable for his choices and actions. One way or another he will be in prison a long time.

    Yet we should also be on guard against making him a scapegoat for the repugnant crimes of the movement he became ensnared in. On that basis I have no problem with returning him to NZ, and letting due legal process to take its course.

    • joe90 11.1

      Mark Taylor is a good example of a unwell and vulnerable person

      Any man who joins a movement with the expressed purposes of taking multiple Muslim wives and to purchase a Yazidi woman as a slave certainly ain’t unwell or vulnerable.

      He’s a threat to women everywhere.

      • Sam 11.1.1

        I am worried what IS means for normal muslims living peaceful and typical lives in the west. When a death cult turns up in your area called “Islamic” State then “Islam” has a branding problem. For the survival of Islam and Muslims they are going to have to differentiate themselves somehow from the scum.

        • joe90 11.1.1.1

          It’s a Sunni Islam, particularly Salafi problem.

        • McFlock 11.1.1.2

          Takes more than a branding problem to kill one of the world’s major religions.

          Bigots will bigot, just as some tories do the old “Nazis were socialists, it’s in their name” bs.

          But the only religion facing an existential problem is the one that, from the top down, has enabled and protected paedophiles for decades and still has yet to fully confront that fact.

          • Sam 11.1.1.2.1

            Shhhhh. Bigots don’t like facts, it makes there little heads explode.

          • Stunned Mullet 11.1.1.2.2

            “But the only religion facing an existential problem is the one that, from the top down, has enabled and protected paedophiles for decades and still has yet to fully confront that fact.”

            Which religion is that ?

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 11.1.1.2.3

            So…Islam? Child brides from before the writing of the Koran?

            • joe90 11.1.1.2.3.1

              Xtian ‘Murica?

              The Idaho Statesman reports that HR 98, which would have eliminated marriage licenses for those 15 and under, and have strengthened the consent requirements for those 16 and 17, failed by a vote of 28-39, with 3 abstaining.

              House Republicans outnumber House Democrats 56-14 in the Gem State, where the youngest Idahoans to say “I do” in the 2000s were just 13 years old. Yet Idaho is just one leader in a disturbingly crowded field.

              According to highly-cited data from anti-arranged marriage advocacy group Unchained at Last, an estimated 248,000 children were married in the United States between 2000 and 2010.

              https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/3/1/1838685/-Republicans-in-state-with-highest-rate-of-child-marriage-vote-to-keep-it-legal

            • Sam 11.1.1.2.3.2

              So you want to virtue signal now about how pure as the driven snow you and the community represent are. That’s just a despicable question.

            • McFlock 11.1.1.2.3.3

              older and also more recent

        • Psycho Milt 11.1.1.3

          When a death cult turns up in your area called “Islamic” State then “Islam” has a branding problem.

          Islam should have a branding problem. It’s an appalling totalitarian ideology. We can feel empathy for the poor sods living with it, but the brand itself sucks a big one.

          • Sam 11.1.1.3.1

            You may not be far from the truth but the fact remains that western people have lost faith with religion where as Muslims have not lost faith. Not only that after successive imperial powers starting with The Mongols, Acient Greece, Rome, Britian, France, Britian again, Russia and now, America has overstayed it’s welcome, people have lost faith in us. So you may have your truth, but there’s a bigger picture.

            • Psycho Milt 11.1.1.3.1.1

              It’s fucking dangerous to lose faith if you’re unfortunate enough to have been born to Muslim parents, just like it used to be for Christians a few hundred years ago, so yes losing faith is relatively rare among Muslims.

              As to western imperialism, there were two competing imperialisms and in the end Christendom’s version won out over the umma’s version. It was one of those conflicts that make you wish both sides could lose, but there’s always a winner and personally I think the umma winning would have been worse.

      • RedLogix 11.1.2

        Joe I have more reason than you can possibly imagine to hate Islamic fundamentalist zealots. Personal like.

        But another part of me knows they are ensnared in something more powerful than any one human soul. Bring him back and face our justice, not our hysteria.

        • joe90 11.1.2.1

          hate Islamic fundamentalist zealots. Personal like.

          .

          I’m of the opinion that religion and ideology don’t matter to these guys.

          My loathing of Taylor and other western jihadis has little to do with religion and everything to do with losers joining a murderous movement for little more than the thrill of the kill and an opportunity to access virtually powerless women.

      • Gabby 11.1.3

        Well he sounds a tad retarded to me joey.

        • joe90 11.1.3.1

          Yet the piece of shit had the mental acuity to serve in the NZ army.

          • Anne 11.1.3.1.1

            Umm… in the words of a former prime minister who also happened to be a former Army major:

            The Army is not known for its intellectual prowess.

            It was part of a conversation I had with him at a private function back in the mid 1990s. He died after a short illness not long afterwards.

    • James 11.2

      “Yet we should also be on guard against making him a scapegoat for the repugnant crimes of the movement he became ensnared in”

      There is a good chance he took part in or at the least enabled those repugnant crimes.

  12. D'Esterre 12

    “It’s not just force of arms that defeats fascist ideologies.

    Showing ourselves to be part of a morally and ethically superior way of living is equally important.”

    I doubt that this would change the mindset of jihadists in general, or that of our homegrown individual. From what I’ve read and heard, it seems that he’s quite unrepentant. Also not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I doubt that he has any understanding either of the bollocks to which he’s signed up, or of the depth of the schtook he’s in.

    Wild Katipo: “Nah , bring him home here, put him on trial and deal with it that way.

    Whether we like it or not hes our responsibility.”

    I agree. But our government is under no obligation to make undue efforts to help him return. He’s made his own bed and all that….

    • Sam 12.1

      There are more Frenchmen fighting for ISIS than Libyans. More Brits than Egyptians. More Kiwis than Moroccans.

      There is something wrong with Western Muslims.

      • Stuart Munro. 12.1.1

        Yeah they’re deculturalised Muslims. So are the middle east’s homegrown jihadis – mainstream mosques aren’t too keen on that stuff.

        • Sam 12.1.1.1

          Well first of all we are going back to a time when big populations meant a straight line to state power and influence, and smaller states are literally at the mercy of the powerful. And so the days of multilateralism superintended by The United States of America is fading away, and now we are moving back to Great Power Politics. In this world that we find ourselves in its just much harder for Aotearoa-New Zealand to live in with a population of 4.7 million vs America 320 million, China 1.5 billion, India 1.3 billion and so on.

          One of the ways that we try and address the point that New Zealand is an Island Nation with global interests, is through maintaining our 5eyes relationship. New Zealand will never have the weight to enforce our will with power alone. We’ve believed since the signing of the Treaty in an international rules based order. Whether the rules are of trade, the law of the sea, international law, disarmament, nuclear policy or international rules of war and so on. All of these rules are known to kiwi bureaucrats and we are apart of running them. Now that’s been easy for us in the past because basically those rules are being set by us and our mates. Now people who we are just getting to know like the Kurds who’ve got Jihadi John under arrest, an NZ national in a war controlled by Iran, Russia and Syria. We are active when we have to be but we are not leading the pack.

          So if we want to continue to be apart of a rules base order which has benefitted us for a 140 years then we are going to have to get much more active and I’m talking about a $30 billion NZDF recapitalisation program out to 2045 so an extra $10 billion on top of the $20 we aspire to today and 2% GDP funding for annual vote defence, on top of the budgetary commitments so we can get more active and pull our own weight. I think we need to do democratic repair so we’ve got a new flag with invisible writing underneath that says International Rules Based Order. But the difference is with old world flags of the past, our new one democratically repaired will mean something, and The Rules Based Order will also allow us to be much more closer to China while staying close to The United States of America at the same time.

          So yeah. Just want a competent bunch of cabinet MPs who has a decent comprehension of the English language, can read the rules and not screw up to bad. I mean how simple is that. Y’know? We don’t all have to turn into strategic and geopolitical geniuses.

  13. mickysavage 13

    Legally the Government has to issue a passport unless one of the following exceptions applies:

    27GA Refusal to issue, or cancellation or retention of, New Zealand travel document on grounds of national or international security
    (1) The Minister may decide to take any action specified in subsection (3) in relation to a person if the Minister has reasonable cause to believe—
    (a) the person is a danger to the security of New Zealand because the person intends to engage in, or facilitate,—
    (i) a terrorist act within the meaning of section 5 of the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002; or
    (ii) the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction; or
    (iii) any other unlawful activity designed or likely to cause serious economic damage to New Zealand, carried out for the purpose of commercial or economic gain; and
    (b) the taking of that action will prevent or effectively impede the ability of the person to do any of the activities specified in paragraph (a); and
    (c) the danger to the security of New Zealand cannot be effectively averted other than by taking an action specified in subsection (3).
    (2) The Minister may also decide to take any action specified in subsection (3) in relation to a person if the Minister has reasonable cause to believe—
    (a) the person is a danger to the security of a country other than New Zealand because the person intends to engage in, or facilitate,—
    (i) a terrorist act within the meaning of section 5 of the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002; or
    (ii) the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction; and
    (b) the taking of that action will prevent or effectively impede the ability of the person to do either of the activities specified in paragraph (a); and
    (c) the danger to the security of that country cannot be effectively averted other than by taking an action specified in subsection (3).
    (3) In any case to which subsection (1) or (2) applies, the Minister may—
    (a) refuse to issue a New Zealand passport to the person …

    • Puckish Rogue 13.1

      Seems to me this guy might fit under some of those definitions however I’m sure smarter people than myself will argue otherwise so maybe the government is taking the best course of action it can by not helping this guy at all

      Mind you its a balancing act for the government especially given the lack of help for the woman that died in Bali, sure its false equivalence but when has that ever stopped the media reporting on it

  14. AB 14

    As I believe Paul Buchanan has suggested – the intelligence community might like to have a chat to him. Might be worth passing the hat around to get him back for that reason if no other.
    Though of course the same old right-wing talking heads would characterise it as Labour being soft on crime.

  15. Hmmm. ” Australia made those criminals, and Australia should be responsible for them.”
    Well, Same applies to Taylor. ISIS made him a criminal, and ISIS should be responsible for him.

  16. Mark 16

    Labour looks after a whole lot of other criminals, such as those deported from Australia…some of them real evil pricks, rapists and murderers and the like.

    This guy is not the worst of the worst. He has made some stupid decisions. And the West has long tried to topple Assad …who is friendly civilizationally speaking to the West and christianity and modernity. So for Winston Peters to say that this guy attacked western civilization is a bit rich, particularly as western states themselves have a history of supporting and using these reactionary and barbaric elements against secular states that displease them.

    He is a NZ citizen so he has right to a passport and come back home on his own steam of course. And we can’t strip people of citizenship if it will render them stateless. Unless this guy has multiple citizenships he is a New ZEalander who should be able to come home, and then be charged with no doubt a whole array of crimes.

  17. McFlock 17

    Situation seems to me that if them that has him choose to deport him, he either goes via Syria, Turkey or Iraq. Then he can be put on a boat to NZ. And we are legally and morally obliged to take him, and have him face justice here if he didn’t there.

    I don’t see it as reasonable for NZ diplomats to risk their lives travelling through war zones to beg for this to happen, however. Nor is he likely worth much in a deal-brokering if they did.

    There might be geopolitical or intelligence reasons to extradite him, but who knows. We might yet see an NZ cop flown to Turkey to take a slow boat back with Taylor in hand.

  18. Tiger Mountain 18

    A major point of aspiring to run a Civil Society is that to ensure the care of Citizens, even nutters and nuisances should be dealt with in an orderly way, or it defeats the purpose

    • RedLogix 18.1

      Thank you. Hysteria is always a bad idea, no matter how virtuous you think you are being at the time.

  19. mosa 19

    ” He is one of ours ”
    NO he turned his back on his country to fight for a ruthless terrorist organisation that has taken no little effort to suppress
    I don’t care what his motives were when he signed up but he knew what he was getting himself in for.
    He should be detained until he can face trial and as it stands at the moment he will have to be repatriated back here as there is no tribunal ( set up ) or court that has jurisdiction where Taylor is concerned.
    It seems the worst may be guests at Guantanamo if Trump gets his way.
    It looks like he will end up back here where we will be paying to keep him.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/04/middleeast/western-isis-supporters-intl/index.html

  20. NZJester 20

    Wile, we are under obligation to let him back, as the Prime Minister said we are not under an obligation to go out of our way to pay to get him home.
    I just hope that if he does somehow make it back to New Zealand that there is a plan to immediately have people meet him on the plane.
    ISIS are far right-wing nutters. They claim to be Muslim but they are just the Muslim worlds equivalent of a lot of the right wing nuts who claim to be Christian.

  21. OnceWasTim 21

    There’s a bit of a parallel going on here,
    It amuses me (just a little bit).The former fikshit service man (or should I say, the Defense Force’s perfek specimen) – easily adapted and moulded into a fighting force.

    Trouble is, he opted for another side (one of many)

    I contrast that with other things such as Police undercover agents – some of whom have become the most pathetic specimens I’ve ever come across and who had a right to have expected more.

    Such is not in the nature of their administrative overlords who are closest to the political class.
    But tuff shit I guess

  22. Incognito 22

    NZ is not and never has been 100% pure. Whether we acknowledge this and how we deal with it says a lot about who we are as a people. Deal with it!

  23. vto 23

    He is hardly “bumbling”

    He has survived many years and has been caught in the very last stronghold… that tells me he is a very capable chap and not at all bumbling

    And further tells me NZ is the likely the last place on the planet he would want to be

    it is a non-question

  24. Doogs 24

    Many people on this thread have said it in different ways. The way ahead for Mark Taylor is fairly straightforward.

    1. Recognise he is a NZ citizen and acknowledge that we are responsible for him.
    2. Make no effort to repatriate him at our cost.
    3. Understand he is currently not our prisoner to deal with.
    4. Allow Syria, or whoever, to put him on trial and punish him accordingly.
    5. If he does manage to get passage home, arrange to arrest, try and imprison him accordingly.
    6. If Syria does try and imprison him then ultimately expels him back to NZ, we need to have a process to deal with the aftermath and fallout from that. Perhaps that means he is then dealt with by our justice system for the crimes he has committed.

    Some are saying this guy is mentally ill. I don’t think so. All evidence seems to point to a reduced cognisance due to brain damage. He is obviously a low level thinker, but has had enough nous to figure out the best advantage for himself (e.g. the desire to buy himself a woman). He has got himself into this situation because his reduced mental capacity has allowed him to be seduced by what ISIS was offering. As such he is a danger to himself and others. Despite his protestations of ‘I was only a guard’ who knows what residual allegiance to IS still survives in his tiny brain. These sort of people are a danger because their limited understanding allows them to be easily captured into blind allegiance.

    • Stuart Munro. 24.1

      Although there’s some sense in what you have to say, whatever punishment he faces should be proportionate to his actual misdeeds, which have yet to be established.

      It is likely that he participated in attacks or violence against civilians, if so he should answer for that. But not greatly more than those involved in Operation Burnham, who seem to have done that too.

      The thing we should not do is punish him for his beliefs – so he’s a vicious idiot? So are most of the National party. They too should answer, not for their beliefs, but for their misdeeds.

  25. dv 25

    It would seem to me that burning his NZ passport is a renunciation of his NZ connection.
    He is on his own in my opinion.

    Mind you should stupidity be a death sentence?
    Hmmm

  26. TomPained 26

    Religion was weaponised aeons ago to dehumanise opposition and create in-group loyalty.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization
    Do we have to go back to back to the earliest human empires such as Sargon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad
    .. or the colonisation of Australia ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Indigenous_Australians

    Herman and Chomsky argue that corporate media are able to carry out large-scale, successful dehumanization campaigns when they promote the goals (profit-making) that the corporations are contractually obliged to maximise. State media in both democracies and dictatorships are capable of carrying out dehumanization campaigns with the population unable to counteract dehumanizing memes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

    Pilgers analysis of election coverage in 2005 is similar.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/node/192496

    Give the guy a break. I met a guy emotionally reliving Malaya and Vietnam in Willis St. just a few days ago. He may find support in the RSA and allied professional services.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_New_Zealand_Returned_and_Services%27_Association

  27. I’m his mother 27

    He is not the prophet, but he’s been a very naughty boy so bugger off the lot of you!

    EXF.

    • Sam 27.1

      Well I’m kind of nervous. What if he’s not a fun puppy when he comes back. Both my Great Grand fathers in WW2 and some of there kids in Veitnam saw hard combat and they were easily triggered when they got back and they where on our side. It’s going to be tough rebuilding that trust if it can ever be repaired.

      • Exkiwiforces 27.1.1

        One can only hope he has learnt his lesson, with this little adventure of his and realise that war fighting isn’t all beers and skittles, but hard yakka. But in saying that his comment IRT not having a enough money to buy a slave is a wee bit concerning along with few comments over the 72hrs a bit worrying as well.

        • Sam 27.1.1.1

          Well of course if Jihadi John ever set foot back on NZ soil he’ll have to spend a minimum 4-7 in lock up and possibly more depending on how involved he was in crimes against humanity. At which point I would hope that the hundreds of millions being spent on mental health in prisons will enable prison staff to take this seriously and try and instil the right values and leave jihadi John with a conception of what life in NZ might be and this is going to be hard work and I hope the staff will be payed appropriately because it will be our first proper reeducation program and we don’t really won’t to pay peanuts because we’ll get monkeys.

  28. Lettuce 28

    All these failed Jihadis are asking for mercy when they showed their Yazidi victims none. No sympathy frankly.

  29. No faith 29

    As a New Zealander he will eventually be returned back here .
    The biggest issue is ?????
    What sentence will he get here with our current justice system?
    The mandatory home detention lol

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