Key – too far even for his fans

Written By: - Date published: 10:47 am, December 17th, 2015 - 154 comments
Categories: john key, Minister for International Embarrassment - Tags: ,

While there is a certain amusement value in having a performing monkey for a PM, his participation in the great rape jape yesterday was too far even for his fans.

Barry Soper: Has John Key gone a step too far?

The trouble with John Key is that he likes to be liked. He’ll bend over backwards to accommodate, be it posing for duck face derpies with university students, publicly planking, or poncing along a catwalk showing his metrosexual side in a Rugby World Cup volunteer’s outfit.

Does John Key go a step too far? His latest outing was to a couple of commercial radio stations. At the first one he was asked to enter a cage in the studio, which he reluctantly did after asking the show host whether he looked like a zoo animal.

Once inside he was asked to pick up a bar of soap, and to the uproarious laughter of the station’s staff, he did. Apparently it’s a reference to prison rape, which of course Key wouldn’t have been aware of. When he observed the soap smelt bad and was greasy, he was told it was from a urinal.

Claire Trevett: John Key’s good-sport shtick becomes uncomfortable

Key has made his informal interview slots on commercial radio a major part of his media strategy. Politically, it is is a good tactic. Commercial radio reaches people who don’t give a poop about the more serious side of politics. Key knows that and plays to his audience accordingly.

But he has a startling tendency to go overboard. He can not even blame the hosts who come up with the ludicrous things they get him to do. He’s been in the game seven years and has the choice of saying “no”.

Just as Caesar thrice refused the crown, Key resisted requests to get into the cage three times. But then he caved. Once in the cage, the ‘drop the soap’ jokes came out and Key played along, analysing the soap.

Key may have been oblivious to the prison rape references and crude Deliverance quote involved. But no Prime Minister should put himself in a cage, let alone one that ends up with jokes about prison rape.

Wonder what the ringmasters will have Key doing for our amusement next year?

154 comments on “Key – too far even for his fans ”

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  1. mary_a 1
    17 December 2015 at 10:55 am

    Anyone who makes fun of rape is not fit to hold any public office, let alone that of the office of PM!

    Being a compliant party to the activity of the programme he was involved in yesterday, demonstrates FJK is a despicable deviant!

    • acrophobic 1.1
      17 December 2015 at 12:07 pm

      Seriously?

      • Once was Tim 1.1.1
        17 December 2015 at 3:13 pm

        Seriously! In case you hadn’t noticed, he’s the Proim Munsta. If he keeps it up, before too long, even his mate Barak, and HRH Madge will be wishing they had nothing to do with him (unless she’s looking to recruit a really bad Court Jester).

        • acrophobic 1.1.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 10:07 pm

          What these comments show is a serious disconnect from the average NZ’er, who still retains a healthy sense of humour, despite the best efforts of the Labour Party.

    • Observer (Tokoroa) 1.2
      19 December 2015 at 3:25 pm

      We never hear a National Party voter, or a National Party politician expressing concern over Rape and the accompanying Violence.

      It is part and parcel of the followers of Key, men and women, that they adopt his sloppy speech forms and his disregard for sexual victims. They applaud whatever he does. Even if it involves children.

      It has to be said that The voters of Key are as despicable as the man himself.

  2. Detrie 2
    17 December 2015 at 11:24 am

    I’ve always maintained the PM should have some morale standards and the office of the PM should set an example of honesty and decorum. John Key, ‘our most casual’ Prime Minister has turned it into a circus. Will only be a few days before these latest antics show up on US TV. We know they broadcast the earlier one with John key so the latest events are even better [worse]. Will this hinder or help his chances of that knighthood?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cgs8xyh_vU

  3. shorts 3
    17 December 2015 at 11:31 am

    how many years has he performed these antics?
    how many times does the media report them (extensively)

    How many times has some standard writer or commentator gushed about this being the step too far…

    and finally how many elections do National need to win before we stop gloating at the goat he is and realise our embarrassment and righteous anger at his antics, sexist, bullying , abusive and creepy behaviour does nothing much than upset ourselves

    yes he is an embarrassment and everything else – and he is still the guy most kiwis want to lead them

    file under another story that will go nowhere *sigh*

    • Puckish Rogue 3.1
      17 December 2015 at 11:42 am

      You won’t get very far if you keep talking sense like this matey

      • shorts 3.1.1
        17 December 2015 at 11:53 am

        In my defence – I’ve not got very far by our (well some of our) societies current standards

        If I’ve learnt anything over two plus terms of this mans rule its never expect anyone to hold him to account for anything, ever

      • Once was Tim 3.1.2
        17 December 2015 at 3:26 pm

        I think the expression these days is ‘maaaaaaaaaaaate!’ not ‘matey’.
        (Matey is koinda condescending, letchering and authoritarian – not something a Proim Munsta – man of the NuZull People evridge Joe will tolerate for too long – but then I guess you’re working from the Okker CT playbook). And may I say “MY how you’ve learnt your lines well”. Or perhaps I should say “MY, how you’ve taken on board the CT learnings going forward”).
        BTW – is there anyway I can LIKE you? or FOLLOW you? …. in the nicest possible way of course – your REAL groovy

        • Once was Tim 3.1.2.1
          17 December 2015 at 3:51 pm

          * you’re REAL groovy

          Not that a true groover would care that much
          ……. oops that should read
          Not the a true /aging groover trying to cling to yoof with kids that are their bestest friends/ would care much.

          and before you do it – forget the supicilious judgemental analysis re my reply to you.

    • NZ Groover 3.2
      17 December 2015 at 1:12 pm

      Gadzooks! I think you’re finally starting to get it. With an approval rating of 49% in his third term it’s patently obvious that many NZ’ers can see your mock outrage for what it is. We’re sick of shrill people telling us what we should say, think and feel.

      • Ross 3.2.1
        17 December 2015 at 1:24 pm

        I don’t know anyone telling you what to say, think or feel. But engaging brain before opening mouth would surely be helpful.

        • NZ Groover 3.2.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 2:29 pm

          The left are constantly telling people what they should be saying, thinking and feeling. If they say otherwise you try to shut them down.

          • Paul 3.2.1.1.1
            17 December 2015 at 4:03 pm

            Welcome to the new troll.

            • Once was Tim 3.2.1.1.1.1
              17 December 2015 at 8:23 pm

              🙂
              Transparent eh? THey probably don’t even realise they can be spotted a mile away
              If the ‘prents’ were truly vindictive cnuts, they’d publish their IPs.
              I think this particular one has recently ‘re-imaged’ though I may be wrong – I can’t be arsed either wondering or otherwise (going forward)

              • Once was Tim …
                17 December 2015 at 8:30 pm

                EDIT:
                I suspect (during my intermittent visitations while chastising myself for not refraining to comment) that there’s another on the horizon – and Acro something or other. (Starts out being semi reasonable – eventually turns in to a prize cnut) – but then I guess we shouldn’t wonder how it’s all come to pass that much. We have a Beverley Waken, next up Shaaaaaaaaron Crosbie probably

                Apologies Messrs Prent – I think I might have just broken your rules and challenged your masterful coding (by accident)

          • ropata 3.2.1.1.2
            17 December 2015 at 6:00 pm

            In other words,
            * Arseholes don’t like being called out
            * Ignorant dickheads don’t like being educated
            * Key worshipers don’t like their religion being questioned
            * Auckland homeowners will say/do anything for capital gains to infinity
            * Ladder kickers don’t like the poor getting uppity

            NZGroover: you should take this criticism personally.
            The negative factor in NZ is Key Govt dirty politics, and if you believe the government’s PR, you are just a useful idiot.

          • greywarshark 3.2.1.1.3
            17 December 2015 at 6:03 pm

            NZ Groover What’s your beef? Sounds okay to me. Move along, there is nothing here for you. You don’t sound very groovy, a bit stuffy really.

            • NZ Groover 3.2.1.1.3.1
              17 December 2015 at 8:32 pm

              Mate, you can’t spend all your time in an echo chamber. You need to look at how people who think differently to you react to situations. If they have a valid point you take it on board. Interesting to see the reaction to my valid, if not somewhat provocative, opinion.

              • vto …
                17 December 2015 at 8:56 pm

                You’re quite correct that various people on the left call out ignorant behaviour, inappropriate jokes, rude and bullying people and all the rest of it.

                Just because there are more of you than any other group in the land doesn’t mean you are not ignorant, inappropriate, rude, bullying and the like. It is just a real sad shame. But of course it is not surprising – look at the current and past behaviour of humans – shitting in their own rivers, killing each other over oil, banning muslims.

                Yeah get into it NZ Groover – you are the man

                Fucking bunch of rude wankers you are

                • NZ Groover …
                  17 December 2015 at 9:30 pm

                  Am I bullying, rude? I don’t quite get your point? There’s more of “us”….. why is that? You’re asking the wrong question, and I go back to the original point. Why does John Key have a 49% approval rating in his 3rd term? Because we’ve all been smoking crack and are going to wake up any moment now. Keep doing the same thing, I’m sure you’ll eventually get a different result.

                  • vto …
                    17 December 2015 at 9:48 pm

                    I don’t give a shit about any result.

                    I just can’t stand people like you and do all I can to avoid you in real life.

                    You and Hosking and Key are outright ugly.

                    [deleted]

                    [That’s a level of personal abuse and accusation that’s way beyond the pale. The only reason you haven’t copped a lengthy ban is because it wasn’t picked up in a timely fashion] – Bill

                  • maui …
                    17 December 2015 at 9:52 pm

                    You can leave your conscience at the door, along with reason, common sense and compassion for others and still be part of the in crowd I spose, doesn’t make it right. There seems to be a common theme of winning at all costs in this group.

                  • seeker …
                    18 December 2015 at 2:54 pm

                    @nzg@9.30pm
                    key has a 49% approval rating because he makes everything that is wrong sound right or OK and obviously 49% of our population love to do the wrong things and get away with it….and he is the arch enabler for them to do this……
                    hence, like you they love him ,and in barry soper and mike hoskings etc. case they will do everything they can to twist and colour their rhetoric to support and enable their enabler…..
                    claire trevett and soper’s wife just seem to have a girlish/ghoulish tracey watkins like crush on him, hence their support for him over ponytailgate (nzh opinion articles at the time)
                    yuk

                  • HumPrac …
                    19 December 2015 at 1:09 pm

                    The people responding to your comments are extremely rude and insensitive. It gives your comments validity.

      • Once was Tim 3.2.2
        17 December 2015 at 3:30 pm

        Oh man …… that was a really groovy groovy thing to say! Can I be YOUR friend?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2.3
        17 December 2015 at 5:12 pm

        [citation needed]

        “we”

        How many of you are currently occupying your meat sack?

    • Chris 3.3
      17 December 2015 at 6:39 pm

      Yes, a sad indictment on where the right has taken NZ culturally. That’s why this is another story that’ll go nowhere. But of course we still need to keep making the point.

      • Rosie 3.3.1
        17 December 2015 at 8:22 pm

        It will go somewhere Chris. There is an action stations petition to get Key removed an an ambassador for the White Ribbon Campaign due to this latest “joke” at the expense of victims of sexual violence.

        I had no f-ing clue (pardon the language) that he was an ambassador for White Ribbon for the reason that weka points out below at 9. He is the most inappropriate person to be an ambassador for white ribbon when he is

        a)an abuser himself (Amanda Bailey)

        b) an enabler of perpetrators (refusing to apologise to Tania Billingsley)

        c) a bystander (roast busters) and

        d)a denier (allowing the pulling back of funding to rape crisis)

        I can’t put the link up on line because my name automatically appears in the signatory box. Please everyone, just google action stations and sign to remove Key as an ambassador for the White Ribbon Campaign. It’s some kind of sick joke that he is one in the first place.

        He has never been held accountable for his attitude towards sexual abuse. This might be a beginning towards doing that.

        • weka 3.3.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 9:08 pm

          Thanks Rosie, I’d forgotten about the White Ribbon thing. I can’t find anything on Action Station though.

        • Liberal Realist 3.3.1.2
          17 December 2015 at 10:05 pm

          +100
          Can’t find a link to the campaign I’m afraid.

          A Herald article had a link to the funding campaign;
          http://www.actionstation.org.nz/itsnotok

          From here;
          http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11544364

        • Chris 3.3.1.3
          18 December 2015 at 12:53 am

          I do hope I’m wrong, Rosie. It just seems nothing can touch him.

          His behaviour towards Bronagh on Campbell’s ‘at home with the leaders’ show just before the election was appalling. The subtle put downs and waving barbecue utensils in front of her face were utterly disgusting.

          http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/at-home-with-the-leaders-john-and-bronagh-key-2014040719#axzz3uZtPtz85

          • Rosie 3.3.1.3.1
            18 December 2015 at 10:27 am

            I often wonder about his poor wife. I couldn’t bear his behaviour toward her in that video.

            You are right, nothing seems to touch him, and this will all die down for sure unless action stations really get enough people on board to really make some noise. That’s more likely to happen in the new year while the country falls asleep for the next couple of weeks.

            Sorry to weka and liberal realist about the lack of a link to the petition…….

          • Whispering Kate 3.3.1.3.2
            18 December 2015 at 2:24 pm

            I agree Chris, I l also thought Key’s attitude towards his wife was appalling on that John Campbell “Meet the Leader’s” show. I felt great sadness for his wife for how pathetic she looked and what her life must be like living with him. Now, I feel more anger that she puts up with his behaviour. It’s not that she isn’t intelligent, she has a Commerce degree and could be enjoying a life and career of her own especially now he is so preoccupied with the limelight and his constant love affair with himself. That she lives on with him and puts up with his disdain for her has put me right off her.. She deserves him really. They suit each other perfectly. A perfect Stepford wife.

  4. Tracey 4
    17 December 2015 at 11:37 am

    If he was oblivious to the implications it is yet another example of his incapacity for this job.

  5. Bruce 5
    17 December 2015 at 11:42 am

    He’ll be behind literal bars before long… Serving at the Speights Ale House just down from his former residence, sniffing around the local hairdressers for ponytails on his 15 minute dinner break…

    • Once was Tim 5.1
      17 December 2015 at 3:44 pm

      Actually I reckon Blair will be before the ICC and Key will have gone bankrupt before all that happens – but it will be the inevitable outcome for both (going forward) – unless he gets one more chance at reinventing (ooops – reimaging) himself – and no time like the present with a compliant media riding on his sleeze-filled coat tails

  6. acrophobic 6
    17 December 2015 at 12:09 pm

    What we’ve learned from this is that John Key can’t sing. But then Helen Clark couldn’t paint!

    • Gael 6.1
      17 December 2015 at 4:20 pm

      Yes but she at least has some class…. not to mention a shot at leading the UN / world.. it will be interesting to see what JK does once he stops having fun as NZ PM… cause fun is what hes having in spades….doubt it will be anything humanitarian but I may be wrong….

    • Once was Tim 6.2
      17 December 2015 at 7:02 pm

      ekshully we didn’t get learnings that she couldn’t paint, we got learnings that she was prepared to put a signature to something she thought was going to be for a charitable purpose.
      Remind me though …. was that her 2nd term or 3rd (when she chose to have a bit of a lay down and cup of tea and concentrate on Her future instead of backing out a few more of the neo-lib policies of Ruthenasia’s mates).

  7. Adrian 7
    17 December 2015 at 12:41 pm

    And poor Ritchie had to take up flying to get away from him.

  8. Ross 8
    17 December 2015 at 1:21 pm

    Yep, Key would’ve understood the soap reference. Christ, he made a joke about strangling chickens which was quite obscure!

    But what he did to that Mariah Carey song was just criminal.

  9. weka 9
    17 December 2015 at 1:23 pm

    This isn’t really about antics, or even going too far. This is about John Key, Prime Minister of New Zealand, being a supporter of rape culture.

    Yes he may have made a serious error of judgement in going into the cage, but once he had done that, if he understood rape culture and what to do about it as Prime Minister of this country he would have issued a statement afterwards stating that rape in all its forms is unacceptable and that to reduce sexual violence in NZ we need to stop joking about it.

    The real problem here is that this is by no means the first example of Key either not getting what rape culture is, or not caring. The list is getting fairly long, I’ll start naming them, please add any I miss. Let’s start with today’s most pertinent one,

    Key reinstates an MP to Minister of Corrections and Police who has previously joked publicly that inmates deserve to be raped.

    Ponytailgate

    Tania Billingsly

    Roastbusters

    Reduction in funding to Rape Crisis and other survivor/anti-violence services

    The Thing that can’t be named (can’t remember which bits we’re allowed to say), pending a criminal trial.

    Telling the Opposition in the House Question Time that they are supporters of rapists and murders.

    All of those together point to something seriously wrong in both Key himself as a person, and the National Government as a whole. I’m not surprised, because it fits with their particular brand of beyond neoliberalism that is amoral and disconnected from what is true and real about being human.

    • Tracey 9.1
      17 December 2015 at 1:55 pm

      In the week the Law Commission released an incredibly import set of recommendations regarding how we deal with sexual violence too. And what happens next to that report? It awaits government comment. Think about that .

    • Paul 9.2
      17 December 2015 at 3:17 pm

      New Zealand has worst domestic abuse rates in the world and we have this clown for a PM.
      The 2 are not totally inconnected.
      Key’s behaviour empowers the behaviour of people like Veitch.

    • arkie 9.3
      17 December 2015 at 6:45 pm

      Totally true weka, thank you.

      Thoughts re:neoliberalism; I think it has a desire to maintain imbalance in power structures of all kinds so that they can be exploited. I’m not sure it’s a novel view but the actions of JK et al speak volumes to the disconnection as you say.

      • arkie 9.3.1
        17 December 2015 at 7:01 pm

        edit: I’m not sure it’s a novel view but either way the actions of JK et al speak volumes to the disconnection as you say.

      • weka 9.3.2
        17 December 2015 at 7:18 pm

        “neoliberalism; I think it has a desire to maintain imbalance in power structures of all kinds so that they can be exploited”

        Very good summation.

      • Jones 9.3.3
        19 December 2015 at 5:12 pm

        Well said. Whatever it is called this is a behaviour of those at the centre of it and JK is close to them. Massive amounts of money to made creating chaos, “making” markets and betting on the outcomes.

    • Puddleglum 9.4
      18 December 2015 at 5:09 pm

      “beyond neoliberalism”

      Good phrase. I think it’s the kind of cultural attitude that most sentient people could have predicted at the time would be spawned and nurtured by the neoliberal reforms of the 1980s and 1990s.

      Not to expect significant numbers of people to indulge in this clever-dick, self-love-fest of a superiority complex and a win-at-any-cost, truth = winning attitude is grossly naive given the outrageously disproportionate rewards the neoliberal reforms offer just such an approach.

      The allure of self-interested domination and exploitation of others are the built-in psychological incentives of those reforms. If there’s the occasional innocent, curiosity-driven innovator who pops up as a by-product they are soon overwhelmed – and probably co-opted – by the other far less innocent ‘children of the revolution’.

      • weka 9.4.1
        18 December 2015 at 5:24 pm

        I know. It’s this stuff that makes me despair the most, because its so entrenched now in a huge chunk of the population who grew up with this as normal.

        • Puddleglum 9.4.1.1
          18 December 2015 at 8:00 pm

          Yes, it’s the societal equivalent of the Jesuits’ “Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man” (I presume Jesuits only taught boys?? 🙂 – I think the original’s Aristotle).

          Power can entrench itself by its ability to change people’s experiences for long enough to normalise the acceptance of that power.

    • miravox 9.5
      18 December 2015 at 8:16 pm

      … and why did Richard Worth resign?

  10. RedLogix 10
    17 December 2015 at 1:36 pm

    From the OP:

    While there is a certain amusement value in having a performing monkey for a PM, his participation in the great rape jape yesterday was too far even for his fans.

    I don’t think so. The tone of these articles was more damage control than ‘too much’. Compare and contrast if the subject had been Cunliffe.

  11. Bill 11
    17 December 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Go into a pub or sit in a smoko room and eventually you’ll hear the rape jokes and what-not and barely an eyelid will flutter. That’s the society we live in and JK is merely reflecting its culture.

    Slam him for it all you like. But be cognisant of the fact that like the vocal ‘prude’ during smoko or in the bar, all you’ll elicit for exhibiting moral outrage is rolled eyeballs from the majority as they inwardly reject you and what you stand for just that wee bit more than they already had.

    • Tracey 11.1
      17 December 2015 at 1:57 pm

      Perhaps from a boorish vocal minority…. i know people who lack confidence tocall out certain behaviour and so appear in agreement.

      • Bill 11.1.1
        17 December 2015 at 2:06 pm

        Don’t misunderstand and assume I’m suggesting that people do the ‘three monkey’ act. But there are ways and there are ways.

        As an example.

        Long time back a flatmate had a partner who couldn’t understand why her workmates were so anti her. Well, it turns out that one of the things they would routinely do is ask her was what she was having for lunch. Her reply would invariably go along the lines of “organic lettuce with”…oh, add in whatever appropriate and ‘up yourself’ ingredient descriptors you like. And of course, the abusive sniggering would follow. Why in the fuck she couldn’t just say “cheese sanny” is beyond me.

        Same with JKs bullshit. Sound all morally superior and yeah…no traction ever going to come from that.

        • Lanthanide 11.1.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 2:11 pm

          +1

          Pretty much the same point I made the other day: trumpeting child poverty by using a measure of ‘relative poverty’ is going to get nowhere when the majority of the public simply don’t agree with the statistic you’re trying to use to show them there’s a problem.

          • Puddleglum 11.1.1.1.1
            18 December 2015 at 5:16 pm

            When it comes to child poverty I think they don’t agree with the fundamental reality either. (that there is poverty in New Zealand – in any sense that can’t be blamed on individual behaviour).

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.2
          17 December 2015 at 3:40 pm

          Essentially, more evidence that the political left is culturally isolated from the outlook of ordinary Kiwis.

          • Bob 11.1.1.2.1
            17 December 2015 at 5:02 pm

            +1

          • just saying 11.1.1.2.2
            17 December 2015 at 5:53 pm

            There are more left-wing women than left-wing men. More of the “political left” are men – ie the vocal, prominent, aspirational, seeking positions of power within the left, etc.

            Like all groups that have been oppressed there is a certain amount of discriminsation that is internalised by women. We absorb a lot, accept a lot, – hell we get a lot of training about this, and possibly more extensively and explicitly than most such groups do. But there is a limit.

            That cultural isolation from the outlook of “ordinary kiwis” you speak of can just as easily be such left-wing men assuming they have women onside because they take so little fucking notice of “ordinary” people they consider their inferiors.

          • Rosie 11.1.1.2.3
            17 December 2015 at 8:34 pm

            CV, I’m a boring ordinary “kiwi” with boring ordinary kiwi friends. None us tolerate rape culture. Some of us are survivors. Some of my male friends will stand up to the dick in the room who makes those joke, others won’t for fear of being ostracised.

            If rape culture is the “outlook of ordinary kiwi’s” that’s a massive problem. Thats not a left or right problem. It sounds like it’s something you’ve got no problem with accepting though.

            • marty mars 11.1.1.2.3.1
              17 December 2015 at 9:20 pm

              + 1 Yes Rosie I hang in the same type of circles – this is not tolerated by most of the people I associate with – a great majority of them identify as lefties.

          • vto 11.1.1.2.4
            17 December 2015 at 9:01 pm

            “Essentially, more evidence that the political left is culturally isolated from the outlook of ordinary Kiwis.”

            -1.

            Wrong in several ways cv. The political left is culturally isolated from the outlook of John Key fanboys, that is all.

            And it should stay isolated from shit like them. Why have a stench like them in your life. Fuck them.

        • Stuart Munro 11.1.1.3
          19 December 2015 at 12:49 am

          There’s something in what you say – but the smoko room and the behaviour of the PM are not and should not be the same. A degree of maturity is expected – the notion is imprecise, but people know it when they see it.

          We see a lot of Key behaviour and cut through his bullshit quickly. People who pay less attention may need help to recognise the impropriety. Notwithstanding the polls, and without expecting dramatic public recognition on any single occasion, we have to call it as we see it.

          An insincere neoliberal plant conducting a love affair with himself through a wholly far-right owned media. Not an elevating romance, but a sordid, squalid affair. Key will not still respect the public tomorrow, he doesn’t respect them now.

    • Paul 11.2
      17 December 2015 at 3:19 pm

      Then we need to change our culture as it sucks.

      • greywarshark 11.2.1
        17 December 2015 at 5:50 pm

        Changing a culture that has been nurtured for 30 years is a big job takes a long time, if ever can be done. Trying to respond to it, and what goals there are, and any ideals there are, should be Labour’s priority. Not just to get along with the centre, but to bring some hope in a practical party with the intent of having good affordable outcomes.

        • miravox 11.2.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 9:00 pm

          “Changing a culture that has been nurtured for 30 years is a big job takes a long time, if ever can be done”

          I partly disagree. It took hardly anytime at all to change NZ middle class voters to the [nurtured] neo-lib morass that is present today.

          It takes even less time to change cultural acceptance of specific practices. Yes, it is a big job so there has to be a genuine, well-supported, effort to change. NAct is excellent at bringing the public on-board and promoting cultural change, but in a very negative way.

        • maui 11.2.1.2
          17 December 2015 at 9:30 pm

          In a way the culture is also pretty flimsy too, the powers that be have to keep their media commentators running 24/7 to pump the masses up with false messaging. They had to do an all out attack on Dotcom, Cunliffe and Hager.

    • Paul 11.3
      17 December 2015 at 3:31 pm

      These are some sample comments under Trevett’s Herald article. The comments are almost universally critical.

      ‘He’s the Prime Minister for goodness sake. Show some dignity and some class, if that’s possible.’

      ‘Goodness are you are only now becoming uncomfortable with the PMs behaviour I have felt very embarrassed by the silly things he has done especially during this last year and in my opinion has made NZ quite a laughing stock overseas – all his handshaking on the international stage does not make as much news as his hair pulling incidents. The time has come for him to grow up and respect the position he has been entrusted with by the public.’

      ‘The sooner Key is in a cage the better – the mistake was letting him out.’

      ‘Statesman? Seriously? If that is really something he might be, he is doing his damnedest to shake it off.
      These shenanigans are bad enough but the world has spotted that he stood up and made all the noise he did at the Paris Climate talks, then having barely got his feet squarely back on the ground on his return, has doled out 9 oil exploration permits.
      We are seeing him as increasingly stupid, the world is seeing him as a hypocrite.’

      • Gael 11.3.1
        17 December 2015 at 4:32 pm

        The thing is that he isnt stupid…. he’s very very clever… you have to see the whole board. He wont stop until he’s bored with Nz… right now he’s having too much fun and he knows he can do whatever he likes and walk away whenever he wants… not bad for a DPB kid… shame for us he picked the National party as his fun mobile…

        • Puddleglum 11.3.1.1
          18 December 2015 at 8:12 pm

          It was the widow’s benefit, not the Domestic Purposes Benefit (pre-dated that benefit). And it was a generous benefit – as good as today’s superannuation.

          As Anne Else observed in 2008:

          “Back in 1969, when Key’s mother and her three children went onto the widow’s benefit, they would have received about 65 percent of the average wage, plus the family benefit of $3 a week for each child. Housing costs were much lower than they are now, especially if, like them, you lived in a state house. Basic foods were subsidised. Electricity costs were among the cheapest in the world.

          So John Key’s family was poor, but not desperately so. Sole parent benefits stayed at 65 percent or more of the average wage until National slashed them in the early 1990s. They’ve never got anywhere near that level since.

          If Mrs Key had been able to do some paid work as well, she would have been allowed to keep her earnings. By earning the maximum allowed, a widow or deserted sole mother with one child could receive more income than a general labourer. The standard exemption for other income was then worth around 60% of the one-child benefit rate. But by 1985 it had sunk to 15%, and has barely recovered since.“

      • Bob 11.3.2
        17 December 2015 at 5:23 pm

        “These are some sample comments under Trevett’s Herald article. The comments are almost universally critical”
        The comments under every John Key based story are almost universal! There are a number of diehard commentators on The Herald that just simply hate John Key and use the comments section as their sounding board to show this. The issue is, the majority of NZers outside of the political sphere just don’t care.
        The reason John Key is still so popular is that he plays to his crowd. If there are jokes being thrown at him by radio personalities, he plays along because he knows the audience generally likes the presenter(s) and their style of comedy, so playing along immediately enamors him to that audience.
        It’s not rocket science, but it does seem beyond the comprehension of many.

        “Statesman?”
        No, Politician, the time of the Statesman has long since passed, Donald Trump is testament to that!

    • Lara 11.4
      17 December 2015 at 5:14 pm

      So… to point out that such “jokes” are not only unfunny, but they’re sexist, is to be considered a “prude”?

      And so your advice would be…. don’t do that? Say nothing?

      And for those of us who have been raped and are literally sickened and feel distress when in company and rape jokes are made, we too should just shut up?

      If that’s the case, how on earth can we ever change this aspect of our culture?

      • Bill 11.4.1
        17 December 2015 at 5:19 pm

        No Lara. Go back and read my comment at 11.1.1

      • Rosie 11.4.2
        17 December 2015 at 8:37 pm

        +1 Lara

      • Gael 11.4.3
        17 December 2015 at 10:47 pm

        With apologies to those who have already seen this link from yesterday’s daily review.. here again is “Dear Daddy”…

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOk_qxkBphY

        That’s a start… I don’t know how to fix it Lara, evil happens when good people do nothing, or aren’t allowed to do something without being villified, or don’t do anything because they are too busy doing something else; working to make ends meet, the distractions of facebook, smartphones etc taking once watchful eyes off the playgrounds and school yards where it all gets played out in minature for any one with eyes to see.

        It seems to me that changing a culture starts and ends with the media. Who gets to be heard and who doesn’t. Pithy phrase no.1 “history is written by the winners”. These days we seem to be intent on repeating the fall of Rome, combined with many attitudes still entrenched from the inquisition (we can only imagine what the world would be like now if those 6million women weren’t burnt by the Malleus Maleficarum http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienciareal/cienciareal12.htm ). I like to think we would still have lots of forests and would be looking after the planet a whole lot better ;o).

        However, women today hold more power than they have since http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0175-2500-year-old-female-siberian-warrior-is-beheaded-by-excavator/ but there are also many who aren’t able to work, and this happens… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4123456/ . It seems if women earned more, they wouldn’t get clobbered by their nearest and dearest… odd but true apparently.. pithy phrase no. 2 ‘power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely’ I suppose and also a really good reason for pay parity imho.

        I always thought it was because some fellas just need to be in physically demanding manufacturing industries and be able to provide for their families and when they can’t do either, the more vulnerable becomes the vent for their frustration. Could be both… add to that being able to buy a case of cheap whisky at the offy for $23, but then can’t afford the ciggies that used to go with it… instead its synthetic cannabis coming back to a store near you, (Thanks Mr Dunne – how is that guy still able to hold his head up in parliament I don’t know), or [insert brain frying chemical of your choice] that your child is into on Friday nights out with their mates and their girlfriends. All ends up the same. Women and children (and guys too) getting hit, raped and killed.

        Anyway since National and the way they are selling/trashing our country’s assets, borrowing against the next generations taxes, turfing out pensioners from state houses, and [fill in your own pet stupid way to run a country], is deemed ‘cool for me’ by 49% of the country, I can’t comprehend it but there it is… and we are here are talking about our PM yet again (pithy phrase no.3 “whats worse than getting talked about…”. National bill boards are up in our town how about yours?

        So no one MSM tells us ever wants a ‘welfare state’, when Norway is one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model) and is also one of the richest countries in the world, just as we could be the geology is the same. But of course people in large numbers are like sheep and will follow the leader if he’s/she is noisy enough… and this leader is antiwelfare and REALLY noisy!!

        But don’t dispair too much Lara, what is going to change the culture of this country in a huge way in the not to distant future is this – from our very own GNS, if you have the time, do watch till the end, like all good scientists they delivered this at a lunchtime back in March, it probably didn’t even make the news:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfj8MIAxec4

        This could happen next year… really… so please guys if you watch that… please don’t be too hard on the mayors who are desparately trying to get a road put through the Wangapeka right now [http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/75072126/new-road-linking-west-coast-to-nelson-would-cut-through-national-park] they are just trying to mitigate the buller westcoast road collapse at White Creek, so post event we can get lifelines into the people of the coast. I do hope the politicians and media will let them because its the only road that will survive, and do buy a solar charger for your phone next chance you get.

        Every cloud has a silver lining, to be raped is horrendous Lara. To be able to understand others pain and help them because you have lived through it, is the gift it eventually gives to mend the soul. To be able to stand up and say this happened to me, helps us change the culture… its one more voice speaking when so many are still kept silent and live in fear. Your voice above might be the one that gives another the courage to say STOP, to walk away and go where it is safe, to speak up, to call 111, to call women’s refuge, tell a friend, to send a letter to their MP, to write an amendment bill, to change a law, to vote, to scream, to become a foster parent, to get off the phone and look around the playground and intervene when some little boy punches a girl on the slide.

        Dear Daddy indeed…..

        Sorry DH you said something about not enough women writing (!). Keep reading and writing the good stuff you wonderful people, cuddle your kids (pets etc) and let them see you laugh, it makes their day. Stop and smell the roses and take a minute to be grateful for the good things in your life… te Taniwha Aoraki still sleeps but his tail is starting to twitch.

    • just saying 11.5
      17 December 2015 at 7:19 pm

      If you’re hearing that in pubs or smoko rooms or wherever, maybe you should be disagreeing with it – you’d have the support of some men in the room who keep quiet out of fear of ridicule. Others in the room probably don’t think about much, one way or the other, but might respect your courage in speaking truth to power in hostile surroundings.

      Otherwise, a few in that room take the whole room’s apparent acquiescence as support for bashing, raping, intimidating, controlling and abusing women. And in the absense of any kind of alternative response, they’d be dead right. It is.

      • Bill 11.5.1
        17 December 2015 at 7:28 pm

        The only point I was making was that assuming a position of superiority (as many tend to do when criticising John Key), simply doesn’t ‘work’ and is often counter productive into the bargain.

        As I said in 11.1.1 there are ways and there are ways. Being all high and mighty, moralistic and judgmental just isn’t usually one of them. And as I also wrote in 11.1.1, I’m not suggesting anyone adopt the three monkey routine (hear, see and speak no evil).

        • Rosie 11.5.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 8:39 pm

          Miss fancy sandwich description lady and pub room rape joke talk was too much of a long bow for me to comprehend.

          • Bill 11.5.1.1.1
            17 December 2015 at 9:59 pm

            A hopelessly bad and irrelevant comparative illustration if your thinking my focus was on what john Key did/said. Not such a bad comparison for illustrating the ‘fail’ of haughtiness though. In case it’s still not clear, my comments are to do with the reaction to John Key’s antics…a lot of moral highground being claimed from which to lob out-rage in John Key’s direction. It doesn’t work as a way to influence what people think.

            • marty mars 11.5.1.1.1.1
              17 December 2015 at 10:56 pm

              What would work?

              • Bill …
                17 December 2015 at 11:08 pm

                See VTO’s comment below.

                • marty mars …
                  17 December 2015 at 11:22 pm

                  I spose I don’t really know what you mean by assuming and representing a moral superiority. Isn’t that inherent in outrage. Isn’t outrage valid. Isn’t being true to your truth and articulating that more likely to influence public opinion. My answers are yes. If the people who won’t change their opinion won’t change there is no point in pandering to them.

                  • Bill …
                    18 December 2015 at 6:50 am

                    Outrage is valid. So is the rejection of the messenger when the outrage comes covertly packaged in a “not in polite society” wrapping. Most people don’t belong to “polite society”. “Polite society” represents much of the privilege and nonsense that squats above them and their position in this bullshit mess. And so when ‘it’ turns around and attempts any paternal education of the unwashed for their improper moral outlook, thoughts or ways….

                    I mean, Marty, did it never cross your mind to wonder how it was that all the ‘nanny state’ shit took off when it was aimed at Helen Clark’s nice middle class and liberal government, but that any equivalent being tried on John Key’s crass and nastily fucked up government gets no traction beyond a short term meme batted back and forth with mirth by and between liberal middle class types?

                    • marty mars …
                      18 December 2015 at 9:02 am

                      The john key meme that he is an weird idiot has eroded his public perception imo especially as he now feels that – note he sang rather than pull some pony tails – public singing is scary for most, but not as scary as pumping the ponytail meme it seems for key.

        • vto 11.5.1.2
          17 December 2015 at 10:07 pm

          Bill the human being has a multitude of communication methods at hand for expressing disapproval other than just assuming superiority. Don’t quite know why you would do that anyway – you are right it doesn’t work.

      • weka 11.5.2
        17 December 2015 at 7:46 pm

        exactly js. I don’t see why politics should be left at the smoko room door.

        There’s a pretty good explanation here,

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP7OXDWof30

    • weka 11.6
      17 December 2015 at 7:41 pm

      Ok, so there are ways and there are ways. Perhaps you could point out who is being the prude in this situation? Are you talking about the journalists? Natwatch? Some of the commenters? It would be good if you could be specific about which are the approaches doomed to fail.

      I’d make a comment on ts about rape culture. In a conservative community, I’d take a different tack entirely (and have done). Of course there are ways. Tbh, I”m not sure what your comment is about. Key is not ‘merely’ reflecting the society we live in. There is whole lot more going on than that. This is a political blog, of course what people say here is going to be different than in a smoko room.

      • Bill 11.6.1
        17 December 2015 at 10:06 pm

        I’ve only commented on the effectiveness of assuming the moral high ground as a tactic for impacting how people think or approach the likes of John Key and his bullshit. There is a swathe across the left, keeps on keeping on with a superior tutting every time the jerk does something. It’s crap. It alienates the very people whose thoughts or attitudes they are (presumably) hoping to influence.

        • marty mars 11.6.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 11:01 pm

          I see it more as genuine feeling of breaching boundaries than a tactic personally. in other words relatively spontaneous.

          • Bill 11.6.1.1.1
            17 December 2015 at 11:19 pm

            Then maybe I should have said something along the lines of it being a self defeating way of expressing genuine feeling. And so, maybe like ‘Miss Fancy Sandwich (h/t Rosy) a swathe of people on the left have to unlearn ingrained habits if they hope to pull people on-side?

            • marty mars 11.6.1.1.1.1
              17 December 2015 at 11:30 pm

              If that is what it takes to pull people on-side, we are better off without them imo

              • Bill …
                18 December 2015 at 7:00 am

                So if my genuine feelings of outrage were expressed by punching people in the mouth and that wasn’t working out too well in terms of winning friends and influencing people, then I should just carry on with that way of expressing outrage, because to change or reflect in any way would be too much of an ask and anyway, ‘better off without them’?

                • just saying …
                  18 December 2015 at 7:52 am

                  As you will probably be aware Bill, there is a long and illustrious history of what happens to women who express their outrage. The internet is full of examples of women expressing their anger about rape culture, everyday sexism, domestic violence etc. Google it if you haven’t been following.

                  Silencing takes many forms. Along with the wall of threats, intimidation and stalking and hatred, there are the endless posts from men who would be willing to listen but…… we’re doing it all wrong. Cue long tirades about how we should be protesting and how not getting it right somehow negates what we might have to say to others. Which is a pity because we might have something in amongst all that hysteria that is actually worth listening to. If we weren’t so: emotional, angry, aggressive, passive, whiny, strident, ball-breaking, analytical, unapologetic, too apologetic…….

                  To me, your’s is just another version of that, only in your case it’s “too passive and middle-class”.

                  edit: another false equivalence with “punching” someone to express outrage.

                  • Bill …
                    18 December 2015 at 8:04 am

                    Christ on a bike! Any chance you read my comments and acknowledge the wider context they’re addressing instead of trying to cram them into the women and rape bounded box? Thankyou.

                    • just saying …
                      18 December 2015 at 8:17 am

                      This is the thread we are on which you started with:

                      “Go into a pub or sit in a smoko room and eventually you’ll hear the rape jokes and what-not and barely an eyelid will flutter. That’s the society we live in and JK is merely reflecting its culture.

                      Slam him for it all you like. But be cognisant of the fact that like the vocal ‘prude’ during smoko or in the bar, all you’ll elicit for exhibiting moral outrage is rolled eyeballs from the majority as they inwardly reject you and what you stand for just that wee bit more than they already had.”

                      There have been many comments back and forth since.

                      How would you prefer we express our outrage at a PM who is repeatedly and explicitly misogynist, abuses and bullies young women with impunity, promotes rape culture, promotes and enacts policies which disproportionately harm us, erodes our human rights insults our dignity and progressively removes whatever little protections have been built up in the past?

                    • vto …
                      18 December 2015 at 8:26 am

                      just saying, you owe no obligation to your detractors who pillory you when standing up to them.

                      Get stuck in in whatever way you want and make no apology. Get in their face. Who cares if they don’t listen? You owe them nothing. They are nothing.

                      Including the boyman who is pig of pm

                    • just saying …
                      18 December 2015 at 8:30 am

                      I’m not apologising, VTO, I’m making a point.

                    • vto …
                      18 December 2015 at 9:06 am

                      just saying, how about a Ponytail Parade down Queen Street to highlight these matters? Masses and masses of them.

                    • marty mars …
                      18 December 2015 at 9:15 am

                      Valid points from js – if outrage is felt how do you express that if not by outrage.

                      To stifle it or contrive it into another response seems fraught with problems to me.

                      Not least is the twisting of that from the opposite into, ” look, no one cares” – turned into a tacit approval meme justifying inaction and supporting rape culture (in this case). The group being used as the punchline of the joke is further margnalised and isolated, increasing their and our inequality. That outcome is unacceptable to me..

                    • Bill …
                      18 December 2015 at 9:56 am

                      The playbook (and yes, it is a game whether we like that or not) goes something like this and has been going like this for some years now.

                      JK does ‘x’ or says ‘y’ where both ‘x’ and ‘y’ are fucking fucked but are (I’ll lazily phrase it as) ‘speaking to the smoko room’. Fucked as ‘x’ or ‘y’ might be, they are usually a part of a recognisable and accepted wider culture. Accepted doesn’t mean that you or I need to find it acceptable.

                      In this case (and it could have been any one of a number of things) he partakes in some bullshit about prison, soap, showers and rape. Every school kid has heard the lines and it’s a piece of received crass shit (somewhat akin to received wisdom) – ie, with connotations that many don’t think about or think through.

                      Some within the liberal left get all het up in a way that attacks not just JK, but by extension those his messaging was aimed at. And his support firms(?) as they knee jerk against the holier than thou left (ie, the liberal left that, rightly or wrongly, is perceived as paternalistic) who are decrying them – ‘the idiots who vote for him’, the idiots who can’t see what he is’ etc.

                      My point is that if that left wants its collective outrage promulgated in a way that impacts positively on people – that shifts the ground in a desirable direction- then maybe it’d find it worthwhile trying to figure out how it will tend to play out in a wider social/media context, rather than just assuming the outrage will be, or ought to be, shared by all and sundry and if it’s not, then it must be because something is wrong with everybody.

                    • just saying …
                      18 December 2015 at 12:45 pm

                      “The internet is full of examples of women expressing their anger about rape culture, everyday sexism, domestic violence etc. ”

                      Your reply (above) to my comment including the below:

                      “……instead of trying to cram them into the women and rape bounded box?”

                      So who was not reading and putting comments into the “women and rape bounded box”?

                      My comment was a reponse to a comment from you on a political blog, not to John Key or anyone else.

                      And politics isn’t a game. Seeing it as just a game just turns everything and everyone into winners and losers. Which is right-wing thinking – accepting right-wing framing at the very least.

                      And why is it just some people, and some issues that need to be silenced for the sake of winning this puerile game? Many issues don’t arouse this kind of reaction on this blog. It is interesting to note which ones do. Kind of a litmus test of which kinds of oppression and which people actually matter.

                      And in case you haven’t noticed the left is not winning by playing according to these kinds of rules. We are just divided and conquered by them.

                • weka …
                  18 December 2015 at 10:34 am

                  “Then maybe I should have said something along the lines of it being a self defeating way of expressing genuine feeling.”

                  Apart from the fact that it’s pretty hard to know what works for other people at a personal level, you seem to be assuming that the most important thing is Key’s popularity. Myself, in this context, I don’t give a shit. I’m not talking about John Key’s ability to get votes, I’m talking about rape culture and how the Prime Minister of NZ enables that.

                  It’s appropriate to talk on a left wing political blog about sexual violence within the context of left wing politics. If you think this is affecting the people reading the standard from the smoko room, I guess what you are saying might make sense.

                  I probably don’t have time to catch up on the backlog from this morning, but I will just say that it is always, no exceptions, a really bad idea to use violence analogies to make points in conversations about sexual violence. Always.

                  I think your analogy fails in several important ways, but I’d suggest you
                  find another one because whatever point you are trying to make is going to get lost in the noise.

        • weka 11.6.1.2
          18 December 2015 at 10:26 am

          “There is a swathe across the left”

          In the absence of you saying who you actually mean (and me having asked), I’m going to assume the swathe includes Natwatch, any leftie inclined journos, and most of the commenter in this thread. From that I’ll also deduce that you believe we’ve all been sanctimonious. I’ll have to guess which comments you think are the sancitmonious ones, because again, you haven’t actually said. Or I could just assume that any criticism of Key is now sanctimonious when viewed through the lense of certain smoko rooms, or maybe it’s just the ones related to sexual violence (seeing as how smoko room dwellers are all illiterate when it comes to rape culture). Yes, I am somewhat matching the fast and loose challenge style of your commenting here.

          btw, you haven’t ‘only’ commented on the effectiveness, you’ve done quite a bit more. I’m sure that was unintentional, but there is quite an irony in you giving the rest of us a lecture on how to deliver messages, or act politically, in culturally appropriate ways 😉

    • vto 11.7
      17 December 2015 at 9:03 pm

      tough bikkies you pathetic weakling

      [lprent: Not a particularly advisable way to draw my attention. ]

  12. Mike Bond 12
    17 December 2015 at 3:05 pm

    As Bill and Lanthanide say above. The left are so quick to comment on anything John Key does, that they forget that their current or past leaders have in fact done the same. Everything is negative from the left and that is why they are not getting any traction in the polls. Most people are so sick and tired of the negativity that even if Labour come up with something good, they laugh them off. My daughter advised me last night that using the measurement used for poverty, they live in poverty! So living in a $1m home and both her and her husband driving new late model cars as well as buying designer clothes while being part of the poverty stats! Come on Labour/Little, learn from past mistakes and become a viable opposition. The country needs it. Politics is becoming a joke if you think that a clown like Winston could decide the balance of power! Are we then still a democracy?

    • TopHat 12.1
      17 December 2015 at 3:17 pm

      It’s not about past leaders. This is all about this one.

    • Bill 12.2
      17 December 2015 at 5:12 pm

      Nice try Mike Bond. But I didn’t say or imply anything about either past leaders or negative memes. What I thought was clear from my comment was the suggestion that if you hit Key with a ‘holier than thou’ tirade, that tirade also hits and repels those who are kind of a bit like him – a lot of people in other words.

      The answer to your finishing question is ‘No, we are not then, and not now, a democracy. Never were.’

      • Jenny Kirk 12.2.1
        17 December 2015 at 5:43 pm

        Nice try Bill. But that’s precisely what you did do. You said :

        “The left are so quick to comment on anything John Key does, that they forget that their current or past leaders have in fact done the same. ”

        I cannot recall any past Labour Leader stroking little girls’ hair, or pulling waitress pony-tails, or calling people “rapist” likers in The House, or mincing along at a fashion show, or doing anything to make people cringe in shame and embarrassment like ShonKey does. The clown is not Winston, its ShonKey – he’s not a statesman at all. He’s just a show-man ….. and not a very good one at that.

        And he is a blatant liar. He is an embarrassment to New Zealanders.

        • Bill 12.2.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 7:32 pm

          What? Where’d I say any of that!? A link or direction to any actual comment would be the go, don’t you reckon?

          Failing that, a simple correction on your part, because ascribing shit to me that I never said (and in quotes!) really fucks me off no end.

    • ropata 12.3
      17 December 2015 at 5:19 pm

      You are welcome to keep believing Key’s happy jokey blokey bullshit if you want.
      You are also welcome to keep sniffing paint fumes and having happy hallucinations.
      But it is not good for you.

  14. greywarshark 14
    17 December 2015 at 3:55 pm

    FFS When will NZ demand a PM that works for them, instead of someone who plays around like a pub animal? It shows what a sloppy nation we have become, shoddy goods are acceptable, they are good enough for us good old boys and girls.

    Those two big teeth in the picture – all the better to eat you with! But the Society for Ape Rights is thinking of taking action for linking a picture of one of their brothers or sisters to this clownish pink ape that is dead meat as far as they are concerned.

  15. Gael 15
    17 December 2015 at 4:33 pm

    The thing is that he isnt stupid…. he’s very very clever… you have to see the whole board. He wont stop until he’s bored with Nz… right now he’s having too much fun and he knows he can do whatever he likes and walk away whenever he wants… not bad for a DPB kid… shame for us he picked the National party as his fun mobile…

  16. repateet 16
    17 December 2015 at 4:41 pm

    Go on to The Daily Blog. Go on to Trade Me Message board – this stuff is not too far even for his fans.

    They are trivialising, minimising, unable to put into context and cannot see the point.

    The perfect example of a country gone to the dogs.

    How come such bloody idiots keep telling me how the country should be organised and run, what needs to happen with our education system and environment and so on?

    • Bill 16.1
      17 December 2015 at 5:16 pm

      Just stop listening to them. Stop voting for them. Stop supporting them through your activities (job, paying down debt etc).

      Start organising yourself (you, your kith and kin…).

  17. Naturesong 17
    17 December 2015 at 5:15 pm

    Interesting dynamic.

    The radio station hosts playing the role of the cool kids, the NZ Prime Minister playing the role of supplicant, wanting to be accepted by the cool kids
    … who really don’t give a shit about him, but recognise that he values being accepted to the group.

    So they use that as leverage to publicly shame him, and then have a laugh about it. “Ha, ha, ha. It’s just a joke mate, Harden ‘up. Har Har!”

    I used to see apprentices bullied this way, probably still happens.

    It’s pretty clear that John Key did not ask to be the butt, and that he found it pretty uncomfortable.

    But, he is the Prime Minister of New Zealand, not some self-conscious high school kid wanting to be liked by the cool kids. Nor was he compelled by social pressure or power imbalance.

    He has the final say on what goes on around him 24/7. He’s the fucking PM!

    That he let this situation develop to its logical conclusion speaks directly to the quality of his leadership.

    Poor judgement and no spine.

    • Paul 17.1
      17 December 2015 at 5:20 pm

      Second.
      Worst.
      PM.
      of.
      New Zealand.
      Ever.

      • ropata 17.1.1
        17 December 2015 at 5:26 pm

        Might be third, behind Muldoon and Lange

        • Naturesong 17.1.1.1
          17 December 2015 at 5:46 pm

          I assumed he was talking about Sid Holland being the worst.

          Both Muldoon and Lange had some redeeming features.

          • Paul 17.1.1.1.1
            17 December 2015 at 9:31 pm

            William Massey the worst.

            Courtesy of idiot savant.

            ‘Prime Minister from 1912 to 1925. He used special constables (“Massey’s Cossacks”) to break the 1913 waterfront strike, had practically the entire leadership of the Labour Party jailed for sedition during World War One (and then delayed the elections anyway, just in case he didn’t win), ensured the passage of the War Regulations Continuance Act 1920 which allowed him to continue wartime censorship and the persecution of communists (plus the odd Catholic Bishop), and (last but not least) gave us the flu because he was too important to wait in quarantine. Over 8000 people died as a result, leading to him being memorialised in a children’s song: “Big Bill Massey brought the ‘flu, parlez vous…”.’

            http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2006/02/ten-worst-new-zealanders.html

            • Naturesong 17.1.1.1.1.1
              17 December 2015 at 9:38 pm

              Ya, I have him and Holland as my 1st and 2nd worst.

              More of a first equal really. Both happy to use state institutions to wage violent ideological warfare against sections of the public.

              edit: … gave us the flu because he was too important to wait in quarantine.
              I now see a picture in my head of Gerry Brownlee on a horse everytime I think of Massey.

      • Jenny Kirk 17.1.2
        17 December 2015 at 5:47 pm

        Nope – I reckon he’s the worst.
        Muldoon did at least care about NZ – and its people. ShonKey doesn’t care at all. He’s been put in to do a job, and he’s doing it, and succeeding at it – selling off the country, privatising all the govt roles.

        • ropata 17.1.2.1
          17 December 2015 at 6:42 pm

          Jeez I just read up on Sid Holland, what a nasty piece of work
          – PM of first National Govt
          – reinstated the death penalty
          – presided over massive human rights violations in 1951 watersiders dispute
          – spread McCarthyist fear of the Red Peril to justify his violent actions
          – signed up NZ to stupid Cold War alliances
          – sold off state houses
          – won an FPP election despite getting fewer votes than Labour (and social Credit got zilch from 100K votes)
          – huge deficit due to over reliance on commodity exports
          – sponsored a dodgy study to discredit Social Credit economic theory

          Key is trying to emulate the master but he has some way to go

          • Naturesong 17.1.2.1.1
            17 December 2015 at 7:20 pm

            William Massey is there in the mix as well.

            Key has a long way to go before he reaches the level of insanity and organised violence that past New Zealand governments have unleashed upon the people in the past.

            His is an administration of ignorance, incompetence, corruption and opportunity cost.
            And at the same time running the most well connected, organised and funded propaganda machine New Zealand has ever seen.

          • DS 17.1.2.1.2
            18 December 2015 at 9:01 pm

            You forgot the really scary one.

            Holland was a member of the New Zealand Legion (aka New Zealand’s attempt at a fascist movement in the 1930s) before he entered mainstream politics.

    • ropata 17.2
      17 December 2015 at 5:25 pm

      It’s a continuation of his spineless kowtowing to Obama and Turnbull, and sucking up to the rich and famous. Perhaps Key is seeking approval from a father figure, represented by these moronic celebrities?

  18. repateet 18
    17 December 2015 at 5:33 pm

    The implication I just heard on Nat Radio is that it’s okay for the Prime Minister to be involved in a joke about rape because it’s Christmas.

    Let someone now design a flag based on “what do you believe in as a New Zealander.”

    • emergency mike 18.1
      18 December 2015 at 3:37 am

      How about on the left half of the flag you put John Key grinning like an idiot holding a bar of soap in a cage with text in quotation marks: “It’s all for fun.” On the right half just text: New Zealand, worst sexual assault statistics in the OECD.

      With a big silver fern on it of course.

  19. Tom Barker 19
    17 December 2015 at 7:04 pm

    The “Guardian” story on this unbelievably vulgar behaviour is currently its second most popular. Aren’t you proud that your country is making international headlines in this way?

    • RedLogix 19.1
      17 December 2015 at 8:26 pm

      I wonder much how longer Malcolm Turnbull will be holding forth on what a fabulous role model Key is?

      Back home however his popularity with the dic pic crowd will only continue to rise.

  20. Hami Shearlie 20
    17 December 2015 at 8:35 pm

    The last few weeks of Key’s many media meanderings have turned up some weird and disturbing stuff, a bit like what Alice faced in Wonderland, but more lavatorially splendid! – Right now, I am left wondering what the Queen must be thinking in her quiet moments of comtemplation. Things like “I wonder if that Key fellow peed in MY shower when he visited me at Balmoral?” I can only imagine the face on Her Majesty as she got that visual picture in her noggin? Perhaps Mr Key thinks this behaviour is what is required for the “trickle down” theory?

  21. rhinocrates 21
    18 December 2015 at 12:11 am

    A suggestion for the next Question Time in Parliament: “Mr Speaker, when is the Pry Mincer going to realise that acting like a colossal dick won’t give him one?”

  22. gnomic 22
    18 December 2015 at 12:51 am

    ‘Jenny Kirk 17.1.2
    17 December 2015 at 5:47 pm

    Nope – I reckon he’s the worst.
    Muldoon did at least care about NZ – and its people. ShonKey doesn’t care at all. He’s been put in to do a job, and he’s doing it, and succeeding at it – selling off the country, privatising all the govt roles.’

    Pretty well covers the current regime leader, aka the smirking/scowling weasel. He loves to play to his gang, those citizens who love the wit and wisdom of ‘Hone’ Carter. Many may remember the episode in which Carter pretended to be a Maori on Talkback radio.

    ‘Carter was sacked as Whip in 1995, after he phoned into a talkback radio show, hosted by fellow National MP John Banks, impersonating a workshy Māori called Hone, causing widespread offence.[4]

    In February 2011, the government announced that Carter would be the next High Commissioner to the Cook Islands.[5] He left Parliament in July 2011,[2] but his departure did not result in a by-election, as the vacancy occurred within six months of the next general election.[6] On 13 June 2011 Carter was granted the right[7] to retain the title of The Honourable for his lifetime.

    He retired as New Zealand’s High Commissioner to the Cook Islands in July 2013 to return to the Far North of New Zealand, successfully running for Mayor of the Far North in October 2013. [8]

    In the 2012 New Year Honours Carter was appointed a Companion of the Queen’s Service Order for services as a Member of Parliament.[9][10]’

    I’m afraid they are out there folks, people who scorn anyone who has not wriggled up the greasy pole and accumulated wealth by whatever means. And it seems to have worked for ‘Hone’. Also famous for his views on genital warts if I recall correctly.

    Yes sexism, racism, contempt for the poor are still go in the so-called ‘National’ party, the party which cares only for wealth and sucking up to multinational capitalism.

    As for the weasel he is an empty vessel and a sounding brass. There is nothing in there, hence all things to all men, except those who see through him.

    ‘ Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.’

    • Hami Shearlie 22.1
      18 December 2015 at 2:14 am

      He sure got the tinkling bit covered in the shower box, and then proudly announced it to the entire world! Some fans are really upbeat about him being “up front” about such things! Wonder how high his voice will soar in the new hit “It’s My Shower Box and I’ll pee if I want to!”

  23. gsays 23
    18 December 2015 at 9:47 am

    I have only heard the radio stunt once.
    Thanks rnz.
    What struck me was giggling could be heard thru the excerpt.
    As if it is an indicater that “this” is funny.
    Rather than key this person is who we are up against.

    To be snooty: I rarely listen to commercial radio, cricket commentary excluxed. I can’t bear ads and the dj banter is inane and a threat to yr iq.

  24. DS 24
    18 December 2015 at 9:02 pm

    Seeing as Key does focus group testing on pretty much everything he does – can we assume that half the population think rape jokes are funny?

  25. mixpan 25
    19 December 2015 at 3:47 pm

    In February 2011 Judith Collins made her comment hoping certain people would be sent to jail for a long time – “with a cell mate”. I’m not surprised that Key finds prison rape funny and I can’t believe anyone else is. People as blinkered, ignorant and lacking in compassion as Key, Collins et al of course do not consider imprisonment to be sufficient punishment for anything; if an outside actor (such as a rapist) can make things more unpleasant then not only do they approve, they want to demonstrate their power by laughing at the victim as well. (Can’t wait to hear the chorus of “victims? They are not victims! The victims are the people they hurt!”; I’m going to go get my vomit bag ready.)

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