Key’s repeated reflexive lies (and giving back double)

Written By: - Date published: 2:15 am, November 27th, 2014 - 162 comments
Categories: accountability, blogs, john key, Judith Collins, making shit up, scoundrels - Tags:

There were some late and complicated developments in the increasingly deranged world of Planet Key politics yesterday. I’ve been trying to make sense of it all. (ht to Bunji, I pinched some material from a draft.)

The first point is that it is clear that PM John Key lies reflexively and repeatedly. (This isn’t new, what is new is that more and more people are being forced to acknowledge it.) This week Key twice denied discussing the Gwyn / IGIS report with Cameron Slater, once to the media (on Tuesday), and once in response to a question in Parliament (yesterday). However, late yesterday an extraordinary record contradicting this denial came to light:

…a screenshot of messages between Slater and an unnamed other person which took place on Monday night emerged where Slater said he knew that Ms Collins would be exonerated in by the Chisholm report. Slater said he knew that because he had been texting Ms Collins and Mr Key that night. Slater confirmed to OneNews the screenshot was authentic.

Here is the screenshot (click on it for larger version):
slater-email-full

The text reads – Slater: “Key is also releasing the Collins report tomorrow, she is exonerated, Herald gets slammed for working with me”. “How do you know this in advance”. Slater: “I have been texting key and Collins tonight.”

Points to note – (1) Slater is still in the loop with Key and Collins. (2) They are leaking the contents of reports to Slater while attacking Goff for leaking breaking embargo to media. (3) Someone released this material to damage Key (notice how “perfect” it is) – who and why? More of the this question below but for now let’s stick with Key.

With Slater confirming the email in the screenshot Key has been caught out lying to Parliament. He quickly heads back to the chamber to make a personal statement “correcting” his earlier denial. The timing is important:

Mr Key’s admission came shortly after a screenshot of messages between Slater and an unnamed other person…

Key tried to spin his “correction” as just noticing his own mistake (audio) but it is clearly a response to the Salter email / screenshot. He only admitted his lies because he was caught out. Here’s some of the reaction that followed:

It gets stranger. Key’s office then released (some of?) the texts between Key and Slater:

key-slater-texts

Note that the PMs texts are helpfully labelled “PM” so that we know which hat Key had on at the time. There are worlds of strangeness in this exchange that I find pretty disturbing. I’m not the only one:

Labour Leader Andrew Little said there was “an air of unreality” about the texts. “Some of them look somewhat delusional.” … “Now the Inspector-General’s inquiry into the alleged leak of the report has to be widened and I expect the Prime Minister to co-operate fully with [her].”

Key lies repeatedly and reflexively. It is all catching up with him.

And that brings us to the question of who released the Slater email / screenshot and why? Allegedly it is (the other party to the exchange?) a blogger called Josh Forman. Forman is a protege of Slater’s who briefly ran (or appeared to run) a blog called SlightlyLeftOfCentre. The blog seemed to be pretty much a front for Slater:

Danyl at Dimpost:

If you look through his posts Forman doesn’t seem all that left-wing though. His views seem pretty right-wing. And his targets aren’t the usual left-wing targets. He really dislikes National Party president Peter Goodfellow. And Bomber. And Kim Dotcom. And muslims. And the New Zealand Herald’s investigative editor David Fisher. You might say he happens to hate everyone Cameron Slater hates.

The similarities don’t stop there. Forman’s style seems very familiar. Politicians are troughers. If they lie they tell porkies. There are loads of breathless exclusives. He’s very sympathetic to the Whale, as we see in the cached copy of this post that Forman has deleted. And the Whale loved Forman and promoted him heavily. You might even say it looks like Slater has set up a fake left-wing blog to disseminate his smears from, which is such a typically Slateresque thing to do I can’t believe he’s only just gotten around to it.

There is plenty more in Danyl’s excellent analysis of Forman and his blog, go read the whole thing. Note especially the quoted (now inaccessible but it’s all cached) post that attacks and threatens John Key. The conclusions drawn by Danyl (I think) and others are that Slater / Forman is using this blog to attack Key, and as a “false flag” operation to try and claim that Labour has its own dirty politics attack blog (see Slater on this – laughable).

So it appears that while Key is still lying to us and chatting happily to his favourite blogger, said blogger is working covertly to undermine him (why else did he so promptly confirm the authenticity of the perfectly crafted email / screenshot?). The Collins faction is back, and giving back double. Lovely people all of them.

162 comments on “Key’s repeated reflexive lies (and giving back double) ”

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  1. NZJester 1
    27 November 2014 at 3:37 am

    Silly man you should have never withheld that title from her. Now her biggest fan boy who has your number ( Literally) in doing the dirty politics on you.

  2. Tracey 2
    27 November 2014 at 4:57 am

    rOb

    it does smell of pay it back double. He would be pretty easy to set up given you could pretty accurately guess his first response would be to deny contact with slater.

    even when he admitted he was caught out, he lied. pretending a short or nothing type exchange.

    no surplus as promised as a sign of their economic management
    plummetting dairy prices
    slow down of money into chch

    • dave 2.1
      27 November 2014 at 5:48 pm

      lets not forget new Zealanders 503 billion dollar total debt ,poor savings rate ,housing market in a bubble (3rd highest in the world ),falling income tax revenue,deficit spending ,bailouts and tax cuts for the rich , increasing gst while all the time real wages and income are falling if this is success i wonder what failure is going to look like .and Andrew little has been awesome we have a winner

  3. Ad 3
    27 November 2014 at 5:34 am

    Great forensic work. And hope it gets worse. But:

    The Anti-Terrorist Fighters bill should steamroller all this flat. Can Key weave through a Bill of Rights/anti-Muslim/narional security debate without attack bloggers being coordinated? Doubt it. His system is addicted to them.

    • Tracey 3.1
      27 November 2014 at 7:43 am

      The SIS broke the law over dotcom
      The SIS gave the wrong info to Key about Goff
      The PM lies about his dealing with Slater

      But we must trust the SIS to reasonably use warrantless surveillance of private properties for 48 hours

      • ianmac 3.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 8:26 am

        Exactly Tracey. You should point that out to Findlayson.

      • Chooky 3.1.2
        27 November 2014 at 9:30 am

        Tracey +100…we can NOT “trust the SIS to reasonably use warrantless surveillance of private properties for 48 hours” !

        Terrorism experts say the Countering Terrorist Fighters Legislation Bill, which is being rammed through Parliament this week is completely unnecessary and counter-productive.

        Public submissions on legislation to give the SIS further powers close today, despite only opening yesterday afternoon.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20158854/academics-speak-out-against-terrorist-fighter-legislation

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20158841/sis-powers-rammed-through-with-minimal-consultation

        Labour should vote against this! I think the Greens are voting against ….and am not sure about NZF

        This legislation will be used against opponents of John Key and his Nact government

      • politikiwi 3.1.3
        27 November 2014 at 12:19 pm

        I’ve got a lot of questions about this “48 hour warrantless surveillance” business. If anyone can answer / comment I’d be interested.

        — The SIS can install surveillance equipment for up to 48 hours without a warrant. Do they need to remove the equipment not more than 48 hours later if they don’t get a warrant, or can they leave it there? (This comes down to what counts as “surveillance”, because in the eyes of the NSA if no human is looking at the output, it’s not surveillance. Therefore, there may be a loophole where they’re allowed to leave the equipment in place provided no one looks at it, because that’s not “surveillance.”)

        — Presumably the installation and removal of the equipment needs to be done without alerting the people in the area that it’s being (or has been) installed. If the SIS can’t come back to remove the equipment at the end of the 48 hours because it will alert people that they’re under surveillance, what happens? Does the surveillance continue?

        — Can the material collected during the 48 hours of warrantless spying be submitted in support of getting a warrant?

        — Does the installation of surveillance equipment immediately trigger the process of getting a warrant? Or could they install the equipment, leave it for 48 hours, and take it down again, all without ever having to tell anyone it happened? Are they required to report on how often this occurs?

        • Tracey 3.1.3.1
          27 November 2014 at 12:35 pm

          GREAT questions. I dont know the answers but they are well worth answering… And a submission.

        • Murray Rawshark 3.1.3.2
          27 November 2014 at 5:40 pm

          When this law passes, the SIS will surveil people for 48 hours, turn the equipment off for 5 minutes, then turn it back on for another 48 hours, and so on. Who will know they’re doing it to complain? They can think of a new reason every 48 hours and no one outside the squirrels themselves (except maybe Ede and Slater) will ever know. This is how squirrels and police operate. In practice, a careful calculation needs to be done of exactly what powers are necessary. They should then be given half of those via legislation. Given that they always overstep their legal limits, this should turn out about right.

    • George Hendry 3.2
      27 November 2014 at 11:52 pm

      An example of the highrisk terror we are so urgently defending ourselves against –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDErs2lWfys

      Crawling steadily to when it might come in handy –

      https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Governor_General_of_New_Zealand_Investigate_all_the_allegations_of_corruption_in_the_National_government/sign/?aeArPbb

      Sir Jerry Mateparae is our man…

      From the GG’s website –

      The Governor-General’s Roles
      Governor-General’s strategy 2011-16 (summary)
      New Zealand’s Constitution
      An Essay on New Zealand’s Constitution
      The Head of State’s constitutional role
      Royal Prerogative of Mercy
      The Executive Council
      Credentials ceremonies
      RESERVE POWERS (my emphasis)
      Administrator of the Government

      Share this page

      “In a very few instances, the Governor-General may exercise a degree of personal discretion, under what are known as the “reserve powers.” The most important of these is the appointment of a Prime Minister following an election, or accepting the resignation of an incumbent Prime Minister.

      “By convention, the Governor-General will always appoint as Prime Minister the person who has been identified through the government formation process as the person who will lead the party or group of parties that appears able to command the confidence of the House of Representatives. The Governor-General expects that there will be clear and public statements that a political agreement has been reached and that a government can be formed that will have the support of the new Parliament. The Governor-General abides by the outcome of the government formation process.

      “Other reserve powers are to DISMISS (my emphasis) a Prime Minister, to force a dissolution of Parliament and call new elections, to refuse a Prime Minister’s request for an election, and to refuse assent to legislation.

      “These powers to act without or even against ministerial advice are reserved for the most extreme situations and with the exception of the appointment of a Prime Minister following an election, no New Zealand Governor-General has ever needed to use them.”

      Is now the time to start asking him about it?

      • Lucy 3.2.1
        1 December 2014 at 9:24 pm

        Definitely NOT – no matter how corrupt our government is we do not want our own Kerr moment here! That way disaster lies we need to impeach Key using the law without interference from the Queens representative. Australia’s law and community is still broken from a moment in 1974. I think that we are not far from our Nixon time – it is not the crime it is the cover up and the lies that will bring this Government down

  4. Ad 4
    27 November 2014 at 5:37 am

    I suspect Key knows he is largely in clear unless a new regulator is tripped that puts him on stand.

  5. Tony T 5
    27 November 2014 at 6:11 am

    Heard some guy on Radio NZ the Panel a coupla days ago, recommending this SLOC blog. Might have been Matt Nippert (?)
    Just had a read, can’t say I’m impressed, some BS about him and Cam both believing in freely exchanging ____ ideas____, not playing the man.

    well, the one thing that struck me most upon first hearing the crap that is in Hager’s DP book, is, that if these people had any _ideas_ worth disseminating, then they would convince people of the merits of their stances by arguing for their _ideas_…..the fact that they felt they NEEDED to destroy people’s reputations, smear them, etc, indicates to me that they must feel that they had or have nothing to offer by way of convincing or appealing _IDEAS_.
    FGS it just gets stranger and stranger, and not in a good way. For this Professor Mayhem, whoever he may be, to say that’s a good thing about poor misunderstood Cam, is a sick joke. If anyone has proven they have nothing to offer by way of good ideas, or solutions to society’s most pressing issues, it would be hard to top Cam Slater, the king of powertripping, namedropping muckraking, lying smear.
    I wonder why he removed the page on good old Cam, and suddenly made his blog private?

    PS have just had a look at Cam Slater’s latest on Forman….what can I say, but a week is along time in a Cam Slater ‘friendship’.

  6. Whateva next? 6
    27 November 2014 at 6:37 am

    Key not only had contact, he akshully used the material,( which was about the IGIS report) in parliament to further smear his opponents, does he never learn?

    In contrast, Goff, having waited ,,,how long? Gives the gist of the conclusion, the night before, AND admits it, he did not lie like Dunne about the Kitteridege report, HE IMMEDIATELY ADMITTED IT, yay, how very refreshing.
    Did the Goff’s leak really have any impact, other than to get a head start on the National spin, which is wise.

    • Tracey 6.1
      27 November 2014 at 7:54 am

      Goff apparently didnt leak, he broke the embargo. It is a slightly different thing.

      You are right though, did Key start the whole Goff leaked the report stuff on Monday before slaters text or after?
      It has done two things for LP

      1. Given little time to prepare his attack on Key and
      2. No one is criticising or being negative about LP new lineup

      • yabby 6.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 9:12 am

        How is Goff releasing explosive information that reflects on National Security and SIS operatives not wrong.

        [deleted]

        [lprent: Perhaps you should just stick to first establishing that your first assertion is correct. In particular how it affects National security, or SIS operatives beyond the damage detailed in the report that they did to themselves.

        As far as I am aware Goff *outlined* the results of an enquiry to his party leader and whip as part of no surprises agreement

        Basically you will be treated as simply lying on this site until you provide some evidence and a supporting relevant link for your assertions of fact (not from those notorious liars Cameron Slater and John Key). Because they look like a lie.

        You have a hour to establish this or I will ban you permanently from this site. I’d suggest you read the policies of this site. However I am unsure if you as a paid up member of the grunting trolls probably don’t have the required skills. ]

        • yabby 6.1.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 9:48 am

          Perhaps I am guilty of not fully understanding or referencing the terms of the inquiry but it did investigate the SIS and it’s operative (Tucker) and it’s operations (informing the Leader of Opposition, communications with the PM’s office) broadly. No offence meant, I was really trying to challenge Tracey as to whether one could be ethical when leaking, my position being that a leak is a leak and they are only done in effort for anyone to advantage oneself. I don’t consider myself to be a troll.

          [lprent: I do. You haven’t even attempted to back your assertion as I asked. Banned for a month (at least you tried to come back). read the policy. ]

          • Tracey 6.1.1.1.1
            27 November 2014 at 11:14 am

            You needed to step back and begin with definitions of leak and embargo. My use of “slightly” different ought to have given you a clue that i hold reservations about the distinction somehow making it ethically ok.

            You also completely ignored one aspect, namely, did Key start blaming goff before or after he didnt text, but did text but nothing much, but text quite a bit?

            Timing is not just everything in comedy. Key is off in politics too.

          • stever 6.1.1.1.2
            27 November 2014 at 11:23 am

            The report had been released, it was just under embargo when Goff talked about it to some journos. Embargos are really a sort of co-ordination device and rely on a “gentleman’s agreement” not to publish.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_embargo

  7. Cave Johnson 7
    27 November 2014 at 6:47 am

    Key’s lies made the front pages of Stuff and the Herald online last night, but by this morning both outlets had pushed it off the main page, like the obedient little lapdogs that they are. I wonder how many phone calls from the PMs office it took to make that happen.

    • Red Rosa 7.1
      27 November 2014 at 8:09 am

      Very noticeable. Some serious questions required.

      After all, not every day a PM lies to Parliament.

      • Lanthanide 7.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 10:39 am

        Actually Key’s had to correct himself a few times over the years. None of those so far have gotten much media attention.

      • Murray Rawshark 7.1.2
        27 November 2014 at 5:53 pm

        I’m not so sure about that, RR. There’s a good chance that the PM lies every time he speaks in parliament. Technically you may be right, since he’s not there every day.

    • Tracey 7.2
      27 November 2014 at 8:25 am

      Herald online now highlighting slaters claim lp tried to kill him…

      • lprent 7.2.1
        27 November 2014 at 8:30 am

        I believe he doesn’t like being held to account. His thesis is that having people like me calling him an arsehole for what he does upsets him, and he might take his own life because of it. There were some post on it a week or so ago.

        Ridiculous. Why is the PM listening to this arsehole nutter?

        But hey, Cam may have had his mate Forman make something up.

  8. Whateva next? 8
    27 November 2014 at 6:56 am

    And if mr. Key thought about resigning during “the tea pot tapes” saga, I wonder if his suitcases are packed now?

  9. les 9
    27 November 2014 at 7:35 am

    Looks like Slater repairing relationship with Collins…i.e- I will get you back in cabinet by giving Key a tickle …I’m sure he will get the hint.Slaters desire for attention makes him a loose cannon…and he claims its Labour that want to kill him!

  10. Tracey 10
    27 November 2014 at 7:41 am

    so did Key release the texts to help paint slater as a paranoid fantasist? The LP tried to murder me for example or because he suspected they would be posted by someone else if he didnt?

    Key and Colins starting to eat their young?

  11. Sirenia 11
    27 November 2014 at 7:49 am

    I hear that the PM has a new press secretary (to replace Mrs de Joux) . Perhaps she is enforcing higher standards of disclosure?

  12. Te Reo Putake 12
    27 November 2014 at 7:55 am

    From a Psychology Today article about the methods of effective liars:

    “Really good liars … actually enjoy the process of deceiving other people. The best liars don’t show any shame or remorse because they don’t feel it. They get a thrill out of actively misleading others. They’re good at it, and they enjoy the challenge.”

    Let’s hope Key never uses method No8: The Basic Instinct fanny flash!

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/extreme-fear/201005/top-ten-secrets-effective-liars

    • Rodel 12.1
      27 November 2014 at 12:20 pm

      Interesting article. Thanks.This quote sums it up.

      “Prisons are filled with bad liars,” says psychologist Charles Ford, author of the book Lies! Lies! Lies!. “The good liars are out running HMOs.”

      • emergency mike 12.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 12:50 pm

        Dr Robert Hare, probably the world’s most well known researcher of psychopathy, likes to quip that if he wasn’t using certain members of the prison population for his research, his next choice would be Wall St.

        • thechangeling 12.1.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 3:33 pm

          And Key always defends himself by attacking back each time using the ‘attackers defense’ mechanism.

  13. just saying 13
    27 November 2014 at 8:02 am

    I think the PM and Slater are still working together and this is an example of it.
    Forman is the latest gambit.
    There seem to be some power games going on amongst the main players, including Key, but I think the two-tier track is still fully operational.
    Even though Forman has been “outed” in the alternative media, the MSM is still operating according to plan – that’s my reading of the television and print coverage at the moment.

    In other words, I don’t think the left should start popping the champagne, or worse, opening the popcorn yet.

    • miravox 13.1
      27 November 2014 at 11:36 am

      Apart from Key emptying out his top drawer, I’m just wondering if there are any more beneficiaries to beat, VIPs to invite, movies to fund. It seems Key is all out of All Blacks games for now.

    • Karen 13.2
      27 November 2014 at 12:35 pm

      I agree Just Saying.

      The MSM are still talking about Forman as a leftwing blogger. There is something strange going on and I am not sure of the end game.

      The txts that were released between WO and PM are truncated – no conversation starts that way. So perhaps the more incriminating material has just been deleted, or maybe there is something else going on here. WO and the Nats have always tried to say the left do it too. Is there an elaborate attempt to prove dirty tricks by some so-called left wing blogger and the Labour Party? Now call me paranoid but just maybe this has all been set up by WO to both attack the Labour Party and warn John Key that he cannot be taken for granted.

      The claim of the left wanting him dead seems very deliberate – my guess is that we will soon see that suspicious comment that appeared on The Standard a few weeks ago about what should happen to WO. Karol removed it very, very quickly, but WO still managed to get a screenshot up on his blog.

      Don’t celebrate yet, guys – this has still got a way to go.

      • Tracey 13.2.1
        27 November 2014 at 1:12 pm

        They are doing what they did when DP was released. Make it so damn confusing, throw in unproven allegations and before you know it, people take the easy way out… Oh they all do it..

      • Anne 13.2.2
        27 November 2014 at 1:30 pm

        my guess is that we will soon see that suspicious comment that appeared on The Standard a few weeks ago about what should happen to WO. Karol removed it very, very quickly, but WO still managed to get a screenshot up on his blog.

        Yes Karen. Somebody by the name of “Neil” (?) made a very silly comment about “wanting him dead” or some such thing? It lasted a maximum of 10 minutes before karol spotted it and immediately deleted it. I did a timeline on Neil’s comments and ascertained he had made a handful of comments starting June/July of this year which – coming at the start of the election campaign – could be seen as a tad suspicious.

        If the MSM come a-calling Lynn… do a ‘Little on Nine to Noon this morning’ and unceremoniously rebuke them for stupidity.

  14. Kevin Welsh 14
    27 November 2014 at 8:06 am

    Compulsive liar. Always his first instinct.

    Not a great trait to have in a Prime Minister.

    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 14.1
      27 November 2014 at 12:28 pm

      An instinct that made him millions.
      And now the NZ people must rid him of his rot on us.

  15. JanM 15
    27 November 2014 at 8:08 am

    I agree with Andrew Little that there is an ‘air of unreality’ about these texts. Is there any evidence that they are valid, or are they been more recently composed as another twist in this weird fairytale developed by Key? It’s one thing to be led by sociopath, but another to have a nutcase as a pm!

    • Chooky 15.1
      27 November 2014 at 9:14 am

      +100…”nutcase as a pm!”…..maybe also susceptible to blackmail by Slater and friends

      …none of the other political parties should be supporting Nacts warrantless searches on New Zealanders!

      • Tracey 15.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 10:58 am

        Yoooo hoooo calling peter dunne, on his party’s commitment to integrity between govt and nzers. Its on their website…

        I reckon Hoots smells a resurgance for ACT???

  16. les 16
    27 November 2014 at 8:17 am

    would take the released texts at as selective ,and contoured to deflect the real issue,with the usual ‘everyones doing it ‘ defence and and but wait theres more…McCarten hacked me and Labour want to kill me!

  17. lprent 17
    27 November 2014 at 8:19 am

    I’d point out for the benefit of our lying PM John Key, that staffers for Labour or the Greens don’t write posts or even comment here (as far as I can tell).

    When one of our authors (like Clinton Smith) goes off and is employed by a political party on the public or party purse they stop blogging on this site. While I’d like Clinton to still be contributing (he is a hell of a analyst and writer), there are some distinct conflicts of interest if they did on this site.

    This isn’t a blog for political parties, it is a blog for talking *about* political parties and politics in general. For some reason I suspect that political parties won’t appreciate the kinds of analysis we do by their employees, and we’re not that interested in having paeans about their virtues.

    We do repost other people who are employed on contracts. Like Rob Salmond at Polity because they do it on their own penny. They are contracted for their particular skills, don’t owe any fealty, and he writes some pretty critical analysis.

    Why do I have to keep explaining this?

    Well they call them conservatives for a reason. Once someone like Cameron Slater of John Key gets an idea in their heads then it seldom seems to leave it. It makes them operate in a strange reality of their own living with the myths. For instance their rather strange hatred of unions for things that I vaguely remember from when I was a kid in the 1970s.

    But mostly I suspect it is about guilt. People like John Key or Cameron Slater appear to believe that everyone else operates like they do. Labour doesn’t have bloggers on staff, but Jason Ede had a quite distinctive writing style writing pieces as “Cameron Slater” while working for John key’s office. If Cameron Slater changed more than a minimal amount of the many ‘drafts’ over many years that Jason Ede supplied while on the government penny, I’d be very surprised.

    I suspect that John Key thinks that we have ghost writers for ‘bloggers’ because that is what he did. A truly guilty conservative projecting their misdeeds onto others…

    • Tracey 17.1
      27 November 2014 at 8:28 am

      “… I suspect that John Key thinks that we have ghost writers for ‘bloggers’ because that is what he did. …”

      THIS

    • BassGuy 17.2
      27 November 2014 at 10:25 am

      Why do you have to keep explaining this?

      I’m sure you already know the answer to that – I think it’s a combination of two things. The first is that it’s a useful deception, and enough people believe it to be beneficial for party support.

      The second, as noted by both yourself and Tracey, is that he does it and can’t believe that others don’t. This seems to be related to the right wing perception of morals as something possessed by the many, to be readily exploited for political gain. I’m thinking particularly of the comments on here a few days ago, where someone (Chris73?) said that it’s all just a game and winning is the only thing that matters, not how you win.

      It’s a shame that so many readily believe anything they read or hear. A little cynicism would go such a long way to correcting for this manipulation, but I’m not sure I really want the population to be that cynical.

    • dave 17.3
      27 November 2014 at 6:03 pm

      [RL: Deleted. Try expressing that with a little more class Dave]

  18. mac1 18
    27 November 2014 at 8:20 am

    On the subject of Key’s lies, I’ve just read Armstrong from yesterday. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11364402

    Tucked away at the bottom of a very strongly damning opinion piece about how ridiculous Key appears is the following.

    “National, therefore, thinks it can get away with it because Key always gets away with it.”

    This is being said by a senior columnist in a National friendly paper about our Prime Minister and his lies, deceptions and diversions.

    As Little said in the House, it’s about ethics, honesty, integrity and I for one am deeply concerned at how low this PM has stooped. As Robertson said in the House, it’s Nixonian.

    it is worthy of Nixon’s eventual fate and downfall.

    The scary thing about that scenario is that the lying, bullying, Slater-friendly Collins is waiting in the wings…………..

    • Hanswurst 18.1
      27 November 2014 at 9:03 am

      This is being said by a senior columnist in a National friendly paper about our Prime Minister and his lies, deceptions and diversions.

      The most disturbing thing being that this is written without a trace of irony, whereas the chief reason why Key has continued to “get away with it” is because of Armstrong and his ilk.

      • Tracey 18.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 11:01 am

        Yes, Armstrong doesnt seem to see it as his job to hold the PM to account… Self-awareness 0- john armstrong 1

      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.2
        27 November 2014 at 1:24 pm

        +1

        Exactly what I was thinking. Key gets away with his lies and deceptions because of people like Armstrong.

  19. adam 19
    27 November 2014 at 8:34 am

    My Dad has a great saying. “I don’t lie son, because that means I got to remember every little lie – and I can’t be bothered- the truth is simpler and makes my life easier” He then generally goes on to talk about beer or rugby – but essentially he’s right. Once you start lying, you can’t stop – truth is a better option – if for no other reason, you don’t have to lie to yourself. And is it not funny that liars always, always get caught out.

    • KPC 19.1
      28 November 2014 at 8:52 am

      You are absolutely on the mark with your comment. You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.

  20. Mike 20
    27 November 2014 at 8:45 am

    John Key’s lying.
    ” A pathological liar is someone who tells lies habitually, chronically and compulsively. It has simply become a way of life for this person, to make up things for a variety of reasons and eventually, the truth becomes uncomfortable while weaving whoppers feels right to them. This kind of lying tends to develop early on in life, often as a response to difficult home or school situations that seemed to resolve better if the child lied. It’s a bad habit, not a manipulative trait––this is how to differentiate a pathological liar from a sociopath who does seek to manipulate.”

    Whatever the reason for Key’s lies, it should not be seen as normal or acceptable for a grown man and a leader of a nation to behave in such a manner. This is the behaviour of a ten year old school boy, not a Prime Minister.

    • Olwyn 20.1
      27 November 2014 at 10:41 am

      RedLogix offered a fine assessment of Key’s relationship with the truth at 3.2 on this thread: http://thestandard.org.nz/armstrong-keys-cynical-politics/

      To quote from it: Truth is of zero worth to a money trader – the only thing is having the balls to ride the bet. Winning is the only truth. In order to keep winning the guy not only lies and rides roughshod over democratic rules and conventions, he also ensures that he has sympathetic people at every institutional point that could prove an obstacle to him. And each time he wins, he assumes more license. I guess the tipping point will come for him when in the eyes of the public, his ethical deficit comes into conflict with his personable presentation.

    • gorj 20.2
      27 November 2014 at 2:35 pm

      I think when your job requires you to be economical with the truth 40+ hours a week it has massive side effects.

      This happened to me when I worked in sales for a few years. When I started I found it difficult to not be totally honest with people, but gradually I became accustomed to it and lying became easy and normal.

      Down the track talking with family or friends I observed myself lying regularly, and often for no reason. It was usually pretty harmless white lies, embellishing the truth, omissions, stuff like that, but totally needless and not how I wanted to behave, but I just found myself doing it.. bizarre..

      Good to be out of there..!

      • McFlock 20.2.1
        27 November 2014 at 4:47 pm

        Yeah, I’ve found that switching careers a couple of times, but not so much with lying. Even with other things like patience (or lack thereof) in eaking out points of view, or immediately responding with a defensive (but committed) attack, or in my current job I’m more restrained and methodical. The different rquirements of each job ended up leaking through into the rest of my life, regardless as to whether they were useful or damaging.

        Part of the trick is to do a variety of things, I reckon. If I just did nothing other than work, I’d get pretty bland in my thinking pretty quickly. So arguing here and doing crosswords/sudoku keeps me vaguely alert, and I have a couple of practical hobbies that require a complete change in dynamic.

  21. Heather 21
    27 November 2014 at 9:26 am

    The House of Cards is not crumbling, it’s starting to fall down.

  22. Jane 22
    27 November 2014 at 9:53 am

    Just listened to Andrew Little calmly slapping Katherine Ryan down when she tried to defend Key’s text exchange with Cameron Slater as a ‘polite response’. As he said, and as we all know, Key’s default position is denial (along with a chronic inability to take responsibility for anything that he or his office does).
    Mr Little’s comment about the MSM’s willingness to get caught up in Cameron Slater’s games instead of doing their jobs as journalists was a well deserved rebuke.
    Katherine Ryan seemed flustered by Mr Little’s display of sound common sense in this interview, and his refusal to accept her version of events, and it was great to hear.

    • ianmac 22.1
      27 November 2014 at 10:22 am

      Thanks Jane.
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20158871
      What was released before the embargo was lifted? I didn’t hear any of those Monday night broadcasts but was it just that “apologies would be forthcoming”?

      • ianmac 22.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 10:29 am

        Wonder why all my comments “awaiting moderation”? Just went onto UFB this week which required tweaking of my ID number/address. Wonder if that has something to do with it?

        [lprent: Nope. It is on our side and comments are semi-randomly going into moderation. I suspect it will be the weekend before I have time to deal with it. It is getting handled manually until then.

        Congrats on the UFB. ]

    • Atiawa 22.2
      27 November 2014 at 10:24 am

      She (Ryan) was likely testing him.
      Difficult for Key to lose his moral compass when he’s never had one to be lost.

      • Tracey 22.2.1
        27 November 2014 at 11:04 am

        And the point about how slater got the PMs number is a good one… Key has no obligation to be polite to slater via text.

        He hasnt been polite to many recently…

        Victims of murdering rapist
        Victim of alleged attempted rape by diplomat

    • ghostwhowalksnz 22.3
      27 November 2014 at 11:35 am

      Its getting worse with the media.

      The Herald runs the story about the texts that Key exchanged and lied about as
      “Labour trying to kill me”
      Really ? .talking about burying the meme

      And now its online story headine says ” Slater: I didnt say labour is trying to kill me”

      Yet the actual words in the story hasnt changed a bit.

      Slater is jerking them around, and they are becoming as deluded as he is.

    • KPC 22.4
      28 November 2014 at 8:57 am

      Totally Agree. All government funded agencies are displaying a blinkered view of our current leadership for the obvious reasons. Time for us to move things along…

  23. Blue 23
    27 November 2014 at 10:02 am

    I’m staggered that Key’s office released that text exchange. It does far more damage to him than it helps him. He’s digging himself a bigger hole when he didn’t even need to. His usual strategy is deny, minimise, bluster, excuse, wait til the media gets bored.

    Now he’s voluntarily releasing text messages that:

    a) Show he is still buddy-buddy with Slater.
    b) Prove that he’s a liar.
    c) Show that he is at least as delusional as Slater.

    I think Key needs to re-hire Ede. Whoever’s doing his comms these days is obviously a complete moron.

    • Ashoka's Hell 23.1
      27 November 2014 at 10:34 am

      Blue,

      “I’m staggered that Key’s office released that text exchange. It does far more damage to him than it helps him.”

      I think the JK & CS are suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

      “A cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate

      The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that, as lemon juice is usable as invisible ink, it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras.[4] They noted that earlier studies suggested that ignorance of standards of performance lies behind a great deal of incorrect self assessments of competence. This pattern was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis.

      Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

      fail to recognize their own lack of skill;
      fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
      fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
      recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they are exposed to training for that skill.[5]”

      JK & CS are both LEMONS

    • Tracey 23.2
      27 November 2014 at 11:05 am

      Because someone else was going to if he didnt?!?

    • Nic the NZer 23.3
      27 November 2014 at 1:05 pm

      I suspect that Slater has developed this ‘strategy’ on his own, and has not discussed it with the PM or the National spin doctors (or Collins). Particularly the Forman strategy, which looks very clumsy. JK released it to discredit Slater (particularly accusations of the left trying to kill him) once he found out that Forman (e.g Slater) was leaking it.

      • Tracey 23.3.1
        27 November 2014 at 1:17 pm

        JK released something showing he is is a liar with no ulterior motive other than making slater look foolish??? It would be entirely out of character for a guy who promised to apologise to billingsley and then reneged cos bungling the departure of an alleged attempted rapist wasnt serious enough.

        • NicTheNZer 23.3.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 1:36 pm

          Once it’s leaked parliament had the evidence he lied to them already. It was clear labour had this during question time. I doubt that Nationals strategy involves making it clear the PM regularly lies in parliament so the above.

          • Tracey 23.3.1.1.1
            27 November 2014 at 1:46 pm

            but that is what they have done. I agree it appears key released the seemingly editted texts because someone else was going to if he didnt… I haveno proof.

            • Nic the NZer 23.3.1.1.1.1
              27 November 2014 at 2:59 pm

              Just to be clear, there was evidence JK was texting Slater from other texts (by Slater) in the media. This must have been known to Labour during question time yesterday when looking at some of the comments during question time. The contents of those texts I don’t think Labour knew. I don’t think this stuff with Forman was well thought out or part of Nationals strategy, I think Slater is trying something but who knows how he thought it would work out. The subsequent release of the contents of these texts clearly came straight from the PM’s office and I think is an attempt to distance the PM from Slater.

              I think the CT strategy was the standard, release all the info on one day, cop the fall out and wait for the media to forget about it.

              Slater may be trying to remain relevant, but I don’t think he will have a long leash any more as a result. I also don’t see how this helps Collins as waiting out her time was working well, so I guess its just Slater on his lonesome. Maybe he thought it would divert the media into his false left wing narrative (around Forman) but they had already decided that Forman is only ‘Slightly to the left of’ Slater.

  24. Ashoka's Hell 24
    27 November 2014 at 10:13 am

    Formula for Manipulative Media

    A-B+C-D-E-U=BULLSHIT Interviewing from RNZ:

    A = ask the PM and opposition to come on and discuss the allegations of X against JK

    B = JK declines to discuss X

    C = RNZ asks opposition Leader about X

    D = RNZ then hijacks halfway through asking about U (taking focus off X)

    E = JK gets a free sound bite later in the day with a scripted press release about X introducing U

    U= anything unrelated to X that at has little merit only in that it shifts the focus onto the opposition.

    Repeat formula 1000x over the course of the next 3 years

    Who scripts the news at RNZ?

    I wonder if the 9-Noon team read your post about Cameron being tricky with e-mails and fake left wing blogs. Conveniently no.

    Also, why cannot we get JKs and his cronies COMMUNICATIONS (note this covers definitions of e-mails, texts, meetings, conversations) over the past 5-6 years. We couldnt possible could we, no, the SIS are not that competent, or are they?

    • ghostwhowalksnz 24.1
      27 November 2014 at 11:41 am

      I have sympathy for RNZ, Keys media people brief them but wont supply anybody to appear on air.

      Then the presenter has to try being impartial with ‘both sides’ of the story. But of course they cant cant say ” The PM is saying” because he wont front.

      But there isnt both sides, as its used by National to play a game of hide and seek.

      They should tackle them on air and say: Government has refused to come on air.

  25. swordfish 25
    27 November 2014 at 10:29 am

    Andrew Little on Morning Report today:

    “…Cameron Slater is a self-confessed liar, I don’t trust anything he says, what we know is: John Key…..has had to go back to Parliament to correct himself. It’s a disturbing development at a time when the Prime Minister’s Office is under question for its lack of integrity and ethics. And we are seeing more of it yet again…..What he has admitted to is communicating with Cameron Slater – the person probably next to Kim Dotcom, who was the next most toxic thing in the last election and who has caused major disturbance to the Prime Minister – and yet to this day he is still texting and communicating with Cameron Slater. All of this beggars belief, but it shows to me that we have a Prime Minister who has no ethical bottom lines at all, no integrity, no moral fibre. He just carries on as if there is no difference. This is very disturbing, New Zealanders should be worried.”

    • Tracey 25.1
      27 November 2014 at 11:08 am

      Thanks very much for that sfish.

      I also liked Littles dig about the surplus being gone. Afterall the surplus was the alleged proof of good economic management during the election.

    • Murray Rawshark 25.2
      27 November 2014 at 6:19 pm

      Andrew Little just went down in my estimation. How the hell can he rate Dotcom as more toxic in the last election than Blubber Boy? And Dotcom as the most toxic thing in the election?

      Dotcom tried to do something on the left. It didn’t work as planned. He did it transparently, openly and probably with good motives. Why does Labour always fear and loathe those to the left of them more than they dislike corrupt right wing scum like Slugboy, Collins, and Key?

      FJK and FAL too.

      • Clemgeopin 25.2.1
        27 November 2014 at 6:40 pm

        I felt quite sad and surprised that Andrew little characterised Kim Dot Com in such a bad way, implying KDC is worse than Slater. I thought it was an unnecessary, unfair and quite irrelevant comment for Little to make. In my opinion, KDC has been treated extremely badly here by our government, by Key, by the general public, by the media, the security and judicial outfits of our country at the behest of USA and the Hollywood moguls. It is Key, Slater and the dirty politics outfit that are doing all the lying, spinning and BS’ting, not KDC! So, yes, I agree it was an unfair comment by AL.

        • b waghorn 25.2.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 7:18 pm

          you need to remember that one of dotcoms 1st friends was the other Honest John. Dotcoms main priority is dotcom not the poor of NZ

          • Murray Rawshark 25.2.1.1.1
            27 November 2014 at 7:34 pm

            Does that make him the most toxic thing in the election?
            He directly helped get Banks out of Parliament. Whatever his motives, that is more of a service to Aotearoa than anything FJK has ever done.

            • b waghorn 25.2.1.1.1.1
              27 November 2014 at 7:54 pm

              i think in the public’s view of the election yes he was ,remember its only people in the know or who believed dirty politics that understand how toxic slater is.

              • Murray Rawshark …
                27 November 2014 at 8:01 pm

                Andrew Little should be in the know. I assume he believed Hager’s book.

                • Lucy …
                  1 December 2014 at 10:04 pm

                  Think that Dotcom may appear toxic as he was portrayed as trying to buy the election. And he did some very stupid things – the giggles during Edward Snowden’s speech that made him appear like he was high did not help, nor did the “look at me” roadshow. He may have got Banks out of parliament in the short term but Banks has not lost hope of exoneration (bet there wont be a second trial). The left may like Dotcom but most NZers like him as the bumbling, bouncing foreigner and turned on him when he claimed that he would bring down “our” government. As a nation we are not patriotic but make us feel like we are under attack and you get a reaction. This is what Dotcom did to leagues of middle NZ he made them feel like they had to stand with National or NZ would have him as the defacto leader this makes him more toxic to the left because explaining is losing!

  26. aj 26
    27 November 2014 at 11:40 am

    Where’s Blip.
    He has some updating to do.

  27. jaybo 27
    27 November 2014 at 11:48 am

    ‘a Prime Minister who has no ethical bottom lines at all, no integrity, no moral fibre. He just carries on as if there is no difference. This is very disturbing, New Zealanders should be worried.”
    Also troubled, disquieted, irked, vexed and perplexed.

  28. johnm 28
    27 November 2014 at 11:52 am

    Key: ” I didn’t make my 50mil telling the truth ( whatever that is? The truth is what I want it to be ) to you friggin muppets.”

    The political culture Key comes from is based on lies and deception. Most of the public are happy with that, they avoid being upset and having to take responsibility as citizens for their own country.

  29. les 29
    27 November 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Key learned the Wall Streets ethos well…..’go out and make as much money as you can,dont worry about the law,morals or ethics,we can take care of that later if need be’…

  30. emergency mike 30
    27 November 2014 at 1:43 pm

    It’s interesting to think about what Key hopes to gain by releasing this text exchange.

    It seems to me to be an attempt to get some of the ‘Labour did it too, they are just as bad, that’s just politics’ spin into the MSM. Kind like he’s pimping a WO post in a kind of WO style flame war.

    If so it badly reeks of desperation. Key knows that his credibilty, and his nice guy image are hanging by thread. He takes those things very seriously, because he knows that when they go, he’s got nothing.

    Which is why this is so desperate, almost panicy. Anyone who reads Dirty Politics, then takes a look at these texts and sees how matey Key still is with one of the lowest lying scumbags in the country, will instantly see Key for what he is.

    The content is bizarre – consider that here we have the office of the PM (nothing to do with John Key TM) releasing a conversation where someone privately talking to Key claims to have evidence that Labour tried to kill him. Those of us familiar with Slater’s concept of ‘evidence’ won’t be too concerned.

    This is a WO post. Our govt has moved from quietly feeding stuff to WO, to openly posting it in collaboration. Desperation.

    • Tracey 30.1
      27 November 2014 at 1:59 pm

      Nice interpretation. Did slater set him up with the forman screenshot?

      • emergency mike 30.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 2:41 pm

        Yes interesting that Key clearly doesn’t see ignoring Slater as a guy who just talks a lot of stuff as an option. It would appear safe to assume that Slater does indeed have the texts he there claims. Slater might be giving a message to remind Key of that in case he has any thoughts about throwing him under a bus.

        I’m guessing the warm and fuzzy is fading from this relationship.

        • Tracey 30.1.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 3:48 pm

          So slater may have keys new number on the same basis… Give me his number or tell him i can bury him?

          Slaters notion that any old kiwi can get Keys number is a joke.

          This is like the mafia… Once you are in, you can leave only one way…

    • ScottGN 30.2
      27 November 2014 at 2:39 pm

      I watched Corin Dann and Rawdon Christie from Breakfast this morning online. That national party lickspittle Christie was trying to link Labour having got hold of the text messages and therefore setting Key up in the House (Quelle Horreur!) to dirty politics. Dann (for once) was having none of it putting the blame for the whole schemozzle at Key’s feet.

      • Paul 30.2.1
        27 November 2014 at 5:17 pm

        Christie supports privilege.
        He exudes it.

        • Jenny Kirk 30.2.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 5:25 pm

          Yes – it was sickening watching Christie twisting and turning this morning trying to make it out it’s all to do with Labour and nothing to do with Key. Absurd !

  31. Clemgeopin 31
    27 November 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Today’s Questions For Oral Answer November 27

    Thursday, 27 November 2014 11:33 am | Office of the Clerk Press Release
    Tags: Parliament, Questions Of the Day.

    QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS

    1. Hon ANNETTE KING to the Prime Minister: How many times this year, and on what dates has he had communications with Cameron Slater?

    That answer will be interesting, (even though it will be answered on his behalf by someone else, because the PM, the CTC John does not attend Question time on Thursdays). And another point: What ever may be his answer, how can one ever know the actual truth of that answer anyway?

    Other questions are here:
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1411/S00363/questions-for-oral-answer-november-27.htm

  32. truth 32
    27 November 2014 at 4:14 pm

    [Completely off topic. Deleted – MS]

    [RL: Sorry my bad for approving it. I should have checked which thread it was in.]

    • Tracey 32.1
      27 November 2014 at 4:25 pm

      Could a moderator move the ironically named truth comment to OM cos it is Incredibly off topic. I expect slaters regular supporters will be appalled at stolen documents being relied upon…

    • McFlock 32.2
      27 November 2014 at 4:27 pm

      How’s that related to dunnokeyo lying habitually?

  33. ScottGN 33
    27 November 2014 at 4:37 pm

    Andrew Little has now adopted the resigned tone of a weary parent “Just own up and say you’re sorry John and we’ll move on”. I love it.

    • RedLogix 33.1
      27 November 2014 at 5:08 pm

      Relevant interview here:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=146936

      The last line from Little nails it:

      “No person who values their integrity reputation should have anything to do with Cameron Slater – he is toxic.”

      Now that is a line in the sand more than a few people need to have a long hard think about.

      • Tracey 33.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 5:19 pm

        EXACTLY

        And in reverse too…

        No person who values their integrity should have anything to do with John Key – he is toxic.”

      • Colonial Rawshark 33.1.2
        27 November 2014 at 5:22 pm

        Bloody hell, Little is sending in the political LGB’s one after another, right on target.

        • ScottGN 33.1.2.1
          27 November 2014 at 5:36 pm

          He’s been brilliant since he took over, helped by a string of own-goals from the government. The National Party attack unit must be working overtime to try and find something, anything to throw at him.

        • weka 33.1.2.2
          27 November 2014 at 5:38 pm

          Am feeling so grateful to Labour party members and affiliates right now 🙂

          Journo says that Key claims he gave a short, general answer yesterday on his way into parliament when he was running late.

          Little: “that’s just the usual sort of dissembling and obfuscation that unfortunately has become a characteristic of a Prime Minister who was once a reasonably straight shooter, but no longer”.

          This.

          FFS, this is exactly what the MSM should have been getting for the past x years. Instead it’s like they let whichever person is on top set and run the agenda.

          • Tracey 33.1.2.2.1
            27 November 2014 at 5:51 pm

            Prime news pointed out the answer to the question on tuesday… Have you had contact with slater recently, was “No”

            • Tracey 33.1.2.2.1.1
              27 November 2014 at 6:22 pm

              Tv3 replayed the journos question and his reply three times.

              • ScottGN …
                27 November 2014 at 6:38 pm

                And spliced it with Little’s “cut the crap John”. And Gower went on to reiterate the simple fact that has energized all of us this week. Andrew Little has totally owned John Key since he took over the leadership of the Labour Party.

                • Tracey …
                  27 November 2014 at 6:46 pm

                  Yup… Where was this gower pre election… And still no statement to let people know hager was right… Egoes are still too big

  34. Raa 34
    27 November 2014 at 5:17 pm

    Key has delivered National three elections. It is doubtful, for many reasons, that he will be around for a fourth. His political utility and effectiveness is compromised and parties – inside and outside the ‘National’ Party – are getting restless.

    I read that in the tea leaves this morning.

    QED

    • RedLogix 34.1
      27 November 2014 at 5:52 pm

      Key has delivered National three elections.

      When you think about it – this apparently modest matter over smearing Goff – may have played a very real factor in two of them.

      • Raa 34.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 9:09 pm

        Have you read Machiavelli recently ? Like Hobbes, he was a political realist, but I don’t know if he would have been involved in something like this. I think Joyce is the National Party tactician ..

        • Tracey 34.1.1.1
          28 November 2014 at 8:48 am

          And has been silent and invisible for a week. He was also silent and invisible fo many days after dirty politics hit the stands

    • millsy 34.2
      27 November 2014 at 11:12 pm

      This time next year John Key will have gone and one Bill English will be in the PM’s chair, with Bennett as deputy and Joyce in finance. A trio that will deliver the neo-liberal reforms that the elites want (and the changes to super the financial industry has pushed for).

      You heard it here first.

  35. Tracey 35
    27 November 2014 at 5:17 pm

    josh formans linkdin page seems to have gone…

    He is also fundraising – unsuccessfully

    http://www.givealittle.co.nz/member/slcnz

    How many bloggers who claim to be left of centre email slater to discuss important news breaking and get coaching from him… The one thing that seems obvious about slater to me is that if forman wasnt paying him he would not share his genius unless it was for his own ends.

    The PM continuing contact with this guy is

    • weka 35.1
      27 November 2014 at 5:48 pm

      Interestingly, the vagueness of the actual GaL campaign and where the money would actually go strikes me as Slater-esque (not linking, but follow Tracey’s link).

      • weka 35.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 5:51 pm

        I see Forman’s blog blocked the internect archive from storing versions of his site.

        • Tracey 35.1.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 6:27 pm

          And slater is stating,on tv3, that forman set he and key up and that slater has told him in no uncertain terms he is going to find out what its like going ip against slater…

          Not before slater played his victim card, namely that labour knew about his mental health issues and had tried to push him to kill himself (also on tv3)…

          And key called hager a left wing extremist conspiracy theorist… This is the man who the PM gave his new mobile number to…

          • emergency mike 35.1.1.1.1
            27 November 2014 at 6:51 pm

            “And slater is stating,on tv3, that forman set he and key up and that slater has told him in no uncertain terms he is going to find out what its like going ip against slater…”

            Of course, not a word that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. It could be that Slater is running a two track strategy. Using Forman as his WO if you like, to do the smearing while he claims the innocent victim status, thus allowing him to potentially continue his relationship with Key, and remind him who he’s dealing with at the same time. Quelle irony. Or not, who would know.

            One thing is for sure, our PM has got himself mixed up in the most sordid and pathetic little hate triangle that NZ politics has ever seen. Well done John Key, you deserve it.

    • the pigman 35.2
      27 November 2014 at 9:27 pm

      Look at SLC’s other give a little campaign: http://www.givealittle.co.nz/cause/defendtheman

      Legal fund to defend Tau Henare for breach of suppression order by naming a sex offender.

      Just a coincidence that Tau was endorsing his blog on the RNZ panel, I bet.

      Man we need some better wingnuts.

      Gyahahaha… righties still claiming he is some Labour insider.

      lol.

      • Tracey 35.2.1
        28 November 2014 at 8:51 am

        With his salary and expenses and his super fund he has a hellova nerve wanting money from others to defend his loud mouth.

  36. Murray Rawshark 36
    27 November 2014 at 5:33 pm

    FFS, that stupid blog has Blubber Boy written all over it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ede were involved as well. Blubber Boy needs treatment. He’s a disease on the body of our country.

    • The lost sheep 36.1
      27 November 2014 at 10:02 pm

      He’s an idiot, and so why do so many of you think that Slater matters?
      Do you really think anyone who would have otherwise voted Left, voted Right because of something they read on Whaleoil?
      You are seriously deluded if so.

      If you are on Whaleoil regularly, you are one of two types…
      1. A Bigoted Red Neck looking for confirmation that all Lefties are stupid arseholes.
      2. A Bigoted Socialist looking for confirmation that all Red Necks are stupid arseholes.

      I reckon Slaters ratings owe more to type 2 than type 1…..

      FFS, forget about Slater and get back to your own game.

      • Murray Rawshark 36.1.1
        27 November 2014 at 10:10 pm

        Sometimes it’s funny to watch his pathetic attempts to achieve some end, like with this Forman bog. You are also being very disingenuous about people reading Whalespew. The fact is that his lies get repeated on tv and in the press. People don’t have to read his blog when they get it in the Herald or from Paddy Gower.

        FFS, forget about me and get back to your paddock.

        • The lost sheep 36.1.1.1
          27 November 2014 at 11:19 pm

          Because if a lie gets printed everyone that reads it believes it?

          Just like when you go to Slater’s site you get converted by everything Slater says?

          But I’ve been looking at this blog just long enough to know what the narrative is meant to be….

          Everyone who didn’t vote left is an idiot without self will or a critical faculty who was brainwashed by a capitalist funded Main Stream Media….

          That’s easier to swallow than the idea main stream NZ does have a reasonable intelligence, and after exercising it, have decided not to support the current left wing agenda isn’t it?

          • McFlock 36.1.1.1.1
            27 November 2014 at 11:52 pm

            so slater and key are liars, but are transparently incompetent liars so their voters were all intelligent, well-meaning people who chose to vote for incompetent liars?

            It looks like neither caricature of the possibilities is particularly logical.

            • The lost sheep 36.1.1.1.1.1
              28 November 2014 at 8:08 am

              Many of you here want to believe that National was re-elected in spite of ‘dirty politics’ because many voters were ‘fooled / brainwashed’ by Key / Slater / MSM.
              That’s rubbish.

              The real reason is that the middle ground in NZ see politics as an inherently dirty game anyway, and so are not too worried about a bit of inter party intrigue.

              More importantly, and there is a lot of denial about this here, is that the Middle are so disgruntled with the state of the Left that they made a deliberate choice to put up with a bland PM / Party in order to obtain a Govt. that was stable and pragmatic.

              At least Andrew Little is acknowledging the ‘disconnection’ between the Left and voters. It remains to be seen whether he can pull an increasingly fractured grouping back into positive force capable of inspiring confidence in the lost flock….

              • Tracey …
                28 November 2014 at 8:57 am

                Wow, you must be very busy, speaking to everyone who vote for National.

                The other conclusion is that people do see the lies and lack of integrity but as long as they believe they might get more money sometime in the future like key keeps promising they will ditch their ethics.

                • The lost sheep …
                  28 November 2014 at 2:21 pm

                  I’m lucky enough to have contact with a large number of Kiwis right across the political / socio economic spectrum. Have had throughout my life actually.
                  So I’ve spoken to many 100’s of people who voted National at the last election, just as I have spoken to many 100’s who voted for other parties of the Left and Right.

                  I suspect you can’t say the same. In fact from the cartoon stereotype you have of all National voters as stupid, greedy and easily brainwashed, I suspect you don’t have much contact outside the far left at all.

                  Based on my contact with real NZ’ers, I say your ‘other conclusion’ about peoples purely self interested motivation for voting National is nonsense.
                  It just seems to me you are guilty of exactly the same kind of cheap baseless generalisation that you complain so much about with Slater?

                  • Tracey …
                    28 November 2014 at 2:36 pm

                    Yes oh learned one, i am just like slater 🙄

                    And given your entire response was based on cheap baseless generalisations i call

                    “irony alert”

              • McFlock …
                28 November 2014 at 12:57 pm

                The real reason is that the current government has made corruption and lying the new normal, so the middle ground in NZ see politics as an inherently dirty game anyway
                FIFY

          • North 36.1.1.1.2
            28 November 2014 at 7:27 am

            Lost Sheep – having trouble with “a lie is a lie is a lie” are you ?

      • Tracey 36.1.2
        28 November 2014 at 8:54 am

        You must have a low opinion of the PM and the staff he has appointed cos he reads WO and others read regularly.

        Given your view of Slaters irrelevance it makes sense that the PM didnt give Slater his new number and ignores or blocks Slaters calls. Oh wait…

  37. ianmac 37
    27 November 2014 at 6:34 pm

    Campbell Live tonight is going to visit (or try to) Jason Eade tonight. He’ll be lucky!

  38. Atiawa 38
    27 November 2014 at 9:33 pm

    Key has served his purpose for the right;
    “When the going gets tough the tough get going”, ain’t going to apply to dear John.
    He will try to be statesman like, but dear John is no politician.
    He has been a front man who has exploited and become the unlikely benefactor of a very well planned & executed attack on the left, by a Tory, born to rule party & government who were smarting from their defeat in 2008.
    dear John is no Rob, Jim, Helen or Andrew.
    Great to see Labour & Andrew attacking the governments political weakness; Its leader.Everything else is bullshit

  39. JAMESMAXTON 39
    27 November 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Is it just me but is Key’s nose getting larger.

  40. Jrobin 40
    27 November 2014 at 10:20 pm

    His brain is shrinking back from his nose. Oh no! Division on the Right, who would have thought it. Whose back bench is full of misery and discontent now Mr Key?

  41. MrSmith 41
    27 November 2014 at 10:37 pm

    It appears Slater has decided to double down, holding Eights or Aces, meaning he doesn’t appear to be playing the game logically or mathematically any more, he seems to have become drunk on all the latest attention and throw caution to the wind, basically started playing his luck, unfortunately I think for Slater lady luck in this case may be a cruel mistress, unless of-course Key and Collins are into him so deep they can’t afford to bury him.

    Yes, yes, yes the mutterings of another conspiracy theorist, but you have to agree this affair gets stranger and stranger by the day, and maybe that is the game now, make the whole affair so bizarre that it’s impossible to tell the truth from the fiction.

  42. North 42
    28 November 2014 at 6:49 am

    “I reserve the right to lie and deceive at will……”

    That is what this news clip of Key says. It can say nothing else.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11365677

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