Media roundup

Written By: Anthony R0bins - Date published: 7:42 am, September 16th, 2014 - 64 comments
Categories: accountability, International, Media, Spying - Tags: #MoT, andrea vance, Spying, XKEYSCORE

NZ Media has got the message, leading with coverage of the Greenwald / Snowden evidence of mass surveillance of New Zealanders, and the surprise revelation of two US “spy bases” in NZ.

Best coverage so far from Andrea Vance (who has done excellent work over years on GCSB / spying related issues). Today:

‘Moment of truth’ – do believe the hype

When people tell you the “moment of truth” was an anti-climax, a fizzer, a nothing – don’t believe them.

Edward’s Snowden’s appearance, by livestream, in the Auckland Town Hall last night was remarkable. It had nothing to do with Kim Dotcom’s spurious claims about a Hollywood plot. …

Snowden says New Zealand had access to X-KEYSCORE, the data harvesting programme at the centre of the global spying scandal which his whistle-blowing sparked last year. Not only that, but the Government Communications Security Bureau contributed to its development and expansion.

Snowden also says the NSA operates a facility in Auckland. None of Snowden’s previous disclosures about the US, Canada, Australia and Britain have been disputed.

His assertions came after journalist Glenn Greenwald published details of Project Spearhead – GCSB’s masterplan for mass surveillance. He backed up his reporting with NSA documents showing the operation was underway, and US and New Zealand spies were waiting for domestic legislation to complete the project.

In his captivating broadcast, Snowden raised two extremely important questions. Firstly, why did Key not make details of Project Spearhead public during the public debate about the new spying laws? That trashes Key’s claims about enhanced transparency on intelligence and security issues.

Secondly – and this is the point which demolishes Key’s counter attacks this week – why was the GCSB planning (and partly implementing) a programme of mass surveillance when it would have been illegal? For the GCSB/NSA proposals to get off the ground, the agencies needed that law reform. ….

Snowden’s bombshell was not about Speargun, or Cortex (the cyber-protection scheme Key says GCSB now deploys). It was about X-KEYSCORE. And the onus is now on Key to explain how that does not amount to wholesale spying.

Where some media are falling down, in my opinion, is in portraying Key’s release of previously classified documents as “setting the record straight”. It isn’t, it’s a distraction (CORTEX) that in the big picture is relevant to the interpretation of the new GCSB legislation, but has no bearing on the main revelations (Speargun, XKEYSCORE).

For NZ media coverage see also:
As it happened: Kim Dotcom’s ‘Moment of Truth’
US spies have two bases in New Zealand: Snowden
US spy base in NZ?
Greens: Key must ‘come clean’ on XKeyscore
Snowden: NSA has facility in New Zealand
Project SPEARGUN underway

Some international coverage:
The Sydney Morning Herald: “Edward Snowden reveals tapping of major Australia-New Zealand undersea telecommunications cable”,
The Wall Street Journal: “Edward Snowden Accuses New Zealand Leader of Deception Over Surveillance”,
The Guardian: Kim Dotcom accuses New Zealand government of mass spying,
ABC News: Snowden: NSA Collects Mass Data on New Zealanders
CNN: Snowden, Assange, Greenwald, Dotcom: Can this gang of four take down a PM?

The Guardian: Greenwald, Dotcom, Snowden and Assange take on ‘adolescent’ John Key

Please anyone add to the list above or in comments.

Update: Video of the event here…

64 comments on “Media roundup ”

Comments are now closed

Tracey 1

16 September 2014 at 7:43 am

EXACTLY

This is my intial take on Key’s documents

So thrilled to someone else, if not the media picking up that CORTEX was only being talked about from December 2013.

Those papers, from my (admittedly) quick reading do NOT state that mass surveillance had not happened before that time and would not happen.

It appeared that CORTEX and its formation as a “business case” was authroised by PM in December 2013….

On 3 April 2012 an Option 1 and Option 2 (the later included Option one) were explored with Option 2 the preference. Option 1 would provide “an automated investigative capability” and an “effects” defence option” – not explained in the documents.

Option one was at that time agreed for implementation

If “an automated investigative capability” refers to X-KEYSCORE then mass surveillance was implemented on NZers in 2012 or 2013?

Also agreed for implementation was “directing NCPO to work with the GCSB and other agencies on any wider cyber security policy issues” related to Option 2

Option 2 required a business case in 2013

2 September 2013 Cabinet rescinded the decision for a developed business plan for Option 2.

That suggests between January 2013 and September 2013 the GCSB was developing a business case for option 2 because they could not know the decision would later be rescinded?

Wouldn’t it be cool if the PM had released the plan they had put together for option 2 as of that date. No security issues around it cos we werent going to use it, right?

Oh and don’t you all feel reassured that both Collins and Banks were at the meeting to discuss and assess all this?

meanwhile in another world

“Edward Snowden is a hero in my eyes, not a villain. He sacrificed his life as he knew it for the public good by stealing thousands of documents as evidence of what the NSA and other spy agencies were doing. From exile in Russia, few could disagree with his views on mass surveillance: it’s okay only with democratic consent.

But he has not provided evidence beyond circumstantial that the GCSB is actually conducting mass surveillance on New Zealanders. He is really saying, trust me.

If it’s not good enough for Key to say it over the GCSB, it’s not good enough for Snowden. Show me the evidence.” Audrey Young

She needs to listen again, read John Key’s documents again, engage her investigative mind and write a new column. Her hero even gave her a list of questions to ask.
Tiger Mountain 2

16 September 2014 at 8:08 am

It took a group of pros to show the local journos how to do their jobs last night.

Whether many if any will now start consistently doing it is an entirely different matter.

While I can be disparaging about these people they have contributed to what was and still could be a stolen election. Giving ShonKey a free ride at the least for their media masters and in some cases being directly involved in the dirty tricks by turning tip based OIA based stories around in milliseconds to try and stitch up opposition politicians and activists.
- Tracey 2.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 8:13 am
  
  The proof is in the questions those journalists asked being about DotCom’s smoking gun and not a focus on what they had been told and shown. had ANY of them read or understood the documents Key released? Had they jotted down a wee timeline as they read key’s documents? If they had, as they listened to snowden and greenwald they would have started to notice interesting stuff…
  
  BUT instead they were just gleeful that because Warners said “it’s a fake”, DotCom had “lost”
- Sheryl J 2.2
  
  16 September 2014 at 10:13 am
  
  Yes Tiger Mountain, “It took a group of pros to show the local journos how to do their jobs last night.”
  
  What a privilege it was to listen to well-informed, articulate, and courageous people speak out on our behalf and do the job that our own woeful journalists should have been doing all this time!
  - Rosie 2.2.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 11:07 am
    
    + 100 Tiger Mountain, Tracey and Sheryl J.
    
    I bet there were journalists squirming in their seats last night. Greenwald should be an example and a hero to them.
    - blue leopard 2.2.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 12:04 pm
      
      +200
    - Richard Christie 2.2.1.2
      
      16 September 2014 at 12:33 pm
      
      Greenwald should be an example and a hero to them.
      
      Except that they, all the Gowers and Jonolists, will hate him, for showing them up as the incompetent, bought and paid-for stooges that they are.
      - Tracey 2.2.1.2.1
        
        16 September 2014 at 3:27 pm
        
        some light amidst the darks elf interest of journalists
        
        “Last week I resigned from my regular Friday morning slot on NewstalkZB, which I have been doing for 15 years, because I didn’t want to be on the same platform as Cameron Slater, another commentator on the station, while there are allegations that his views involve cash for comment.
        
        I’m all for free speech when there are genuinely held views, but I believe that if you are paid to express them by big industry or politicians with an agenda, that is not fair.
        
        Over the years I have been writing Wendyl Wants to Know for the Herald, I have been offered many incentives to write nice things about processed foods for food producers. I have turned them all down because my readers have to trust me. Objectivity is the first rule of journalism.” Wendyl Nssen
        
        yeshe 2.2.1.2.1.1
        
        16 September 2014 at 3:49 pm
        
        many a true word printed with typo …
        
        ‘some light amidst the darks elf interest of journalists’
        
        superb visual, thx Tracey !
        
        and kudos to Wendyl in this instance — and let’s remember she only ever published photos from hidden cameras of celebrities canoodling in secret when she could prove they were celebrities canoodling in secret, when she was editor of Women’s Day.
Tracey 3

16 September 2014 at 8:15 am

from Gordon Campbell

“Footnote: Since our Prime Minister has been willing to use character assassination as his first line of defence, it’s worth pointing out that Glenn Greenwald has had an international reputation for accuracy and honesty that far transcends his current relationship with Kim Dotcom. It was because of Greenwald’s reputation and expertise on security issues that Edward Snowden contacted him to release the information that has been crucial to the public’s understanding of the systems of global surveillance. Greenwald brokered the release of that information with the Guardian – arguably the world’s best newspaper – and has since been hired by the Guardian as a regular columnist.

Another heavyweight in the country this week is the international lawyer Robert Amsterdam, now on Dotcom’s legal defence team. Previously, Amsterdam was the main legal advocate for the now-freed Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky. More recently, Amsterdam has represented Thailand’s former leader Thaksin Shinawatra – and also spoken out on behalf of the government of his sister Yingluck Shinawatra, who was recently deposed by anti-democratic forces, via a military coup. It may suit Key to try and depict such people as lackeys of Dotcom. In fact, we’re fortunate to have people of such calibre in the country at all, to debate matters of personal freedom and national independence on the eve of an election.”
- Rich 3.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 9:14 am
  
  The Shinawatras are hardly democrats, in fact they seem to be rather corrupt, that deal with the telecom in Thailand shows that clearly. I’m also not sure that I like the idea that his biggest claim to fame seems to be dealing to the UN.
  
  Has he supported any progressive entities?
rich the other 4

16 September 2014 at 8:21 am

Sorry but for me , no surprises and no concerns about any of this .
What is truly surprising , Assange and Snowden have been releasing information for the last couple of years , the damage they have managed to inflict on any country or politician is almost nil .
This is a good result for the free world , their lack of success in undermining anything or anyone can give us confidence that the free world operates in a much cleaner fashion than some would have us believe .
- framu 4.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 8:43 am
  
  never mind that everything snowden and greenwald have exposed has turned out to be true
  
  I fail to see how our failure to hold our leaders to account once exposed is a good result for anyone except for those that have escaped punishment
  
  but yes – were sorry for you as well
- Tracey 4.2
  
  16 September 2014 at 3:37 pm
  
  we have a freer world by thinking we are freer when we are actually closely watched…. ohaaaaaay
  
  makes you wonder why John Key didnt trumpet that last year by saying there was aplan from our allies to spy on you all, but I said to quote Amy Winefield “No, no no!”
  
  But he didnt. We know it’s not cos he believes in keeping security issues secret…
  
  They tried to make me spy on my people but I said, ‘No, no, no.’
  Yes, I’d been planning to but what would happen if you knew, knew, knew
  I have got the lines and if Obama thinks I’m fine
  He’s tried to make me probe you but I said no, no, no.
  
  thought I’d found a way for sure
  even changed the law
  ‘Cause there’s nothing
  nothing you can do t’ stop me
  That I can’t lie my way through
  
  They tried to make me spy on my people but I said, ‘No, no, no.’
  Yes, I’d been planning to but what would happen if you knew, knew, knew
  I have got the lines and if Obama thinks I’m fine
  He’s tried to make me probe you but I said no, no, no.
  
  The man said, ‘Why do you keep lying here?’
  I said, ‘I got no idea
  I’m gonna, I’m gonna get my knighthood
  So I always keep Slater near.’
  He said, ‘I just think you’re the best,
  I said post for me to pass the test’
  
  They tried to make me spy on my people but I said, ‘No, no, no.’
  Yes, I’d been planning to but what would happen if you knew, knew, knew
  I have got the lines and if Obama thinks I’m fine
  He’s tried to make me probe you but I said no, no, no.
  
  I don’t want them to think again
  I just, need to delude them
  I’m gonna change their minds
  Everytime I change my lines
  
  They tried to make me spy on my people but I said, ‘No, no, no.’
  Yes, I’d been planning to but what would happen if you knew, knew, knew
  I have got the lines and if Obama thinks I’m fine
  He’s tried to make me probe you but I said no, no, no.
fambo 5

16 September 2014 at 8:27 am

Good to see all this is finally getting some international coverage
- Tracey 5.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 8:28 am
  
  we have to look overseas for an idea of the impact of it all, won’t get that here
  - Rob 5.1.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:17 am
    
    So now we should be governed by overseas interests now Tracey, is that what you are saying?
    - yeshe 5.1.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 9:53 am
      
      don’t be daft Rob.
    - Tracey 5.1.1.2
      
      16 September 2014 at 11:10 am
      
      What?
  - cogito 5.1.2
    
    16 September 2014 at 10:27 am
    
    Reminds me of the old days of the Iron Curtain, when people had to listen to the BBC to know what was really going on in their own countries.
    - yeshe 5.1.2.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 3:53 pm
      
      Yep — now we read Herald and Stuff so we know exactly what is not really going on .. yes, it is that bad.
karol 6

16 September 2014 at 8:38 am

Keith Ng’s analysis is excellent on the differences between CORTEX and SPEARGUN – totally different systems in different locations – the first is with businesses and IPs and the 2nd sits on major network pathways.

Agree with him about the email, too.

The greens and Norman have come out with a very quick and excellent response. It shows why we need a strong Green Party in the House to continue to press for a change in the way things like state surveillance are done.

From the above linked 3 News article on Norman’s response.

The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to be truthful about the use of surveillance programme XKeyscore following revelations of mass surveillance last night.
[…]
Greens co-leader Russel Norman says John Key needs to explain whether or not and to what extent the programme is being used in New Zealand.
“Prime Minister John Key has no choice but to start answering questions about what it means for New Zealand to be a member of the Five Eyes network, and what the specifics of the Five-Eyes spying is.”
He says Mr Key’s releasing of the documents and explanations so far have been a “red herring”.
“What he must come clean on is XKeyscore and declassify all information relating to it.”
“The one thing that needs protection is New Zealanders’ privacy and rights. It is critical there is a public debate and public acceptance of this kind of mass surveillance before it is done. It cannot be secretly imposed on us.”
He says New Zealanders have the right to know what the country’s spy agencies do and what it means for private information.
- fambo 6.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 9:03 am
  
  I’m always amazed by just how fast the Green Party gets out excellent press releases on virtually every issue of the day, often barely an hour or two.
  - Rich 6.1.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:30 am
    
    This is not a new issue for the Greens, though. They’ve had plenty of time to think about it.
    - karol 6.1.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 9:37 am
      
      Agree, Rich. And ditto for issues related to child poverty, fair employment laws, etc. This shows their readiness to take a strong position in government. They have well worked out policies and positions, based on solid values. The have experienced people able to respond well and consistently to new events and situations as they arise.
Jeeves Ponzi 7

16 September 2014 at 8:52 am

For what it’s worth….

I listened as intently as I could, particularly to the young Snowden, who I trust completely.
I don’t recall him saying there were two secret bases run by Americans in NZ.

My impression was that there are two junctions/nodes/processors within NZ ( I assume Tangimoana and Waihopai) which form part of a network and which the NSA can extract data.

The MSM are alive this morning with propogating an easily refutable and false conspiracy- and we do this again and again-

He mentioned there was ‘one’ in Auckland and one ‘farther north’- but I think as a young American he probably mistook Wellington for Auckland- and was referring to Tangimoana. Also he seemed to mistakenly refer to the NSA at times instead of the GCSB.
Greenwald at times referred to our ‘President’ and ‘Congress’ – but we all know what he meant-

Can somebody please post the actual transcript of his ( Snowden)specific statement ??

Just like with Hager’s book I find myself shouting at the radio ; “He never said that!!!”
- phillip ure 7.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 9:02 am
  
  @ jeeves..
  
  ..”..I don’t recall him saying there were two secret bases run by Americans in NZ…”
  
  well..he did say it..
  
  …can i suggest you go and watch it online..?
  
  ..if still in any doubt..
  - yeshe 7.1.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:28 am
    
    phillip .. r u certain the word he used was ‘bases’ ? and didn’t he say NSA rather than Americans ? ( and yes, I will go back and listen)
    
    Don’t think what he mentions are required to be identifiable satellite stations .. maybe more like secure rooms with staff of one or two or three ?
    
    Paul Buchanan on TVNZ this am suggested one could be a room at the Akld US Consulate …
  - Jeeves Ponzi 7.1.2
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:37 am
    
    @ P Ure –
    
    ….”But you know there are actually NSA facilities in NZ that the GCSB is aware of … and one of them is in Auckland. Another one is in the north of the country … I’ll leave it there.”….
    
    ….”When I’m typing in this search, I say where in the world, which sensor I want it to go to. I know there is mass surveillance in NZ, because one of those sensor networks is in NZ.”….
    
    Point taken @ P Ure
    – but in the context of ‘internet/information/metadaa’ etc
    – the term ‘NSA facility’ may mean nothing more than a junction box.
    
    Or in fact less than that- it may refer to a “sensor” point.
    
    I’m not suggesting this is ‘better’ than “secret American bases”-
    But it is a significantly different picture- and deniable on a whole different level.
    
    So again- for what it’s worth- I still don’t recall him saying there were “two secret bases run by Americans in NZ”
    
    Does anyone have a different transcript to the one I’ve given?
    
    Some of the MSM are busy this morning propogating the idea that there are big grey bruildings in the bush in west Auckland full of khaki clad young American busy spying on us…. This will be painted by Government as a loony and laughable conspiracy being put about by Snowden and Dotcom—-
    
    But again I am screaming at the radio – “He never said that !!!”
    
    Am I still wrong?
    - phillip ure 7.1.2.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 3:38 pm
      
      isn’t the point of this news the fact that america has two ‘bases’/’facilities’/’rooms in embassies’..
      
      ..whatever you want to call them..whatever they are..
      
      ..it’s what they do that matters..surely..?
      
      ..and it was quite chilling last nite when snowden talked about how he could with ease read emails/txts etc of new zealanders..from his workstation in hawaii..
      
      ..so this is what they do/are doing..
      
      .spin john..spin..
      
      ..see john spin..
- Rich 7.2
  
  16 September 2014 at 9:17 am
  
  He did say that, but in the north of the country which is where Auckland is by my reckoning, which is a little strange, maybe he meant the north of the South Island?
  - Hanswurst 7.2.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:19 am
    
    There are parts of New Zealand that are further north than Auckland…
    - Rich 7.2.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 9:21 am
      
      Yes I know, probably about 400kms or so, but he seemed to be contrasting it with Auckland and besides Warkworth is there any other contender?
  - yeshe 7.2.2
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:50 am
    
    Rich .. this is not a man renowned for his errors.
- karol 7.3
  
  16 September 2014 at 9:32 am
  
  Snowden used the word “facility” not base. He specified one was in Auckland – I would have thought the specific name of the location was one that he knew the facility by when working for the NSA.
  
  The other in the “North of the country” could probably be anywhere in the North island.
  
  The name Pakiri came to my mind as it had a WWII radar station there. However, i think it is now defunct.
  
  Has there ever been an undersea cable bringing telegraph into that region in the history of the coast from Mangawhai down to the North Shore?
  - Jeeves Ponzi 7.3.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 9:43 am
    
    THanks for that- and remember when you get an overdraft at the bank – they call it an ‘overdraft facility’
    – it doesn’t mean a shed full of money and a guy sitting there in a Westpac uniform.
    - karol 7.3.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 10:16 am
      
      Paul Buchanan reckons the NSA facility could be in the US consulate in Auckland:
      
      Former US intelligence analyst, Auckland academic Paul Buchanan, believes the NSA could have operated out of the American consulate in Auckland.
      
      The consulate is a secure space, it has secure communications,” he told Morning Report. “Previous Snowden revelations have shown that the Five Eyes partners used their embassy and consulates as tactical eavesdropping points.”
      - Tracey 7.3.1.1.1
        
        16 September 2014 at 11:12 am
        
        and Paul Buchanan is a well known extreme left wing conspiracy theorist
- freedom 7.4
  
  16 September 2014 at 11:58 am
  
  if you zoom in on NZ you will see the ‘new’ cable that is meant to go live 2015/16 is based well north of Auckland. What exists there right now is anyone’s guess
  http://www.submarinecablemap.com/#/
  - Murray Olsen 7.4.1
    
    17 September 2014 at 3:04 am
    
    It even has its own website: http://hawaikicable.co.nz/
Tautoko Viper 8

16 September 2014 at 9:33 am

Although Robert Amsterdam’s speech last night was less significant than Greenwald’s and Snowden’s. there were a few key points which need to be heeded.
The most immediate threat for NZ is the John Key Government-backed TPP/TPPA and how it will undermine the sovereignty of this country: this point has been picked up by RNZ in the discussion of how El Salvador is being sued by OceanaGold, who also mine in NZ. If the TPP to be signed by NZ contains an Investor-State Disputes Settlement system, then NZ will be laying itself open to similar lawsuits.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20149780

A vote for John Key and National is a vote against the rights of this country to make its own laws in the best interests of NZ citizens.

A vote for National and TPP is giving large corporations a “legal” platform from which they can bully NZ and ride roughshod over many laws that NZers would like to make in order to protect the environment and the health and well being of our citizens.
- yeshe 8.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 9:46 am
  
  agreed TV .. but who has said they will not sign TPPA ?
  
  Greens ? IPM? and ?
  - Tautoko Viper 8.1.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 10:56 am
    
    Good point, yeshe.
    Labour need to say that they will not sign anything with an Investor- State Dispute Settlement system in a clearer way.
    This is in the
    Labour Party TPPA remit as passed
    http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz/labour-party-tppa-remit-as-passed/
    
    Remit 35: Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement
    
    c) Does not give overseas investors or suppliers any greater rights than domestic investors and suppliers, such as Investor-State Dispute Settlement, or reduce our ability to control overseas investment or finance;
    - Tracey 8.1.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 11:13 am
      
      Goff on behalf of Cunliffe has NOT said they wont sign it just that they think it should be looked at beforehand
adam 9

16 September 2014 at 9:41 am

What disturbed me was the body language of some of the journalist. I think many had made up their minds, before they had heard what was said – armstrong being the prime example. In the snippets I’ve seen of the post presentation press conference, again some journalists were out there on their own waka. I think John A Lee said it best – paraphrasing – the media is not the friend of the working stiff, it’s got too many interests to support.
- Richard Christie 9.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 12:40 pm
  
  armstrong being the prime example
  
  yeah, to be expected, the NZ Herald just functions as Cameron Slater’s drop box and laundry service.
yeshe 10

16 September 2014 at 9:44 am

So much going on, but maybe worth noting that yesterday afternoon in the High Court, Paul Davison QC for KDC proposed to the court the political interference of Key in granting residency for the purpose of KDC’s extradition.

Isn’t this new info/evidence?

And is it maybe why ‘the’ email was not fronted last night, but referred instead to the Parliamentary Privileges Ctte for investigation ? What does entering it into evidence mean I wonder ?

I saw it on a news bulletin last night, but can’t find the link .. but what I saw was Davison himself raising what certainly seemed to be a fresh theory/evidence as far as NZ High Court is concerned ?

Stuff has some of it …

“His client believed the documents would show immigration delayed their decision on his residency in order to make it easier for the US to extradite him to face piracy and copyright infringement changes.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10500925/Dotcoms-residency-fight-back-in-court
- karol 10.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 10:02 am
  
  Thanks for that link, yeshe.
  
  I had thought that KDC had made the argument before about being set up for extradition by being granted residency in NZ. But am not sure if it was mentioned in court before.
  
  Basically KDC’s defence have said that they need more data released to them so they can prepare their case – this resulted in the case being delayed til February: July NBR article.
  
  This morning on Firstline Laila Harre supported the email evidence:
  
  Internet Party leader Laila Harre says she has “no doubt at all” an email that appears to show Prime Minister John Key has been lying about his involvement in Kim Dotcom’s residency and extradition is genuine.
  […]
  “The email that was published in the New Zealand Herald [yesterday] provides evidence, very clear evidence, that the Prime Minister did know about the existence of Kim Dotcom, and more than that, that he was involved very intimately in the process of this case,” Ms Harre said on Firstline this morning.
  
  Dotcom was expected to reveal evidence last night at his Moment of Truth event proving the email was real, but nothing came.
  
  “There was very clear legal advice on this issue to Kim – the strong advice to him was to make sure that this evidence was put before a proper judicial process. That is what Parliament’s privileges committee is. He followed the advice rather than his gut instinct to share everything publicly yesterday,” says Ms Harre.
  
  I am still puzzled as to why KDC didn’t have legal advice on the email well before yesterday. KDC has been claiming for a long time that he has evidence Key lied.
  - yeshe 10.1.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 10:28 am
    
    Karol … possibly this ’email’ is not the evidence KDC has always claimed to have ? Just an idea. It is puzzling, as you say.
    
    But methinks something very shrewd happened yesterday , but just not sure exactly what at this stage !
    
    1. Introduction of it into evidence at High Court ( at least in theory, can’t find if it was ‘the’ actual email)
    
    2. ‘The’ email was not referred to the Speaker as some reported ( Fat Chance Carter), but Hone Harawira has taken it to the Parliament Privileges Ctte which surely means it can not be made to disappear and evidence of its probity will be properly gathered.
    
    3. KDC said last night that Key would be given right of due process which was something Key had denied to him.
    
    Tracey and Micky posted about the High Court yesterday .. hopefully they will see these posts and add their fine minds.
- Tracey 10.2
  
  16 September 2014 at 11:14 am
  
  entering it into evidence means that it is put to the Court as evidence of whatever it is said to prove and becomes part of the record of the Court and documents for the Judge to consider in coming to a decision.
  
  To my knowledge the political interference has been mentioned in Court before yesterday but this email was not.
  - yeshe 10.2.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 11:17 am
    
    thx Tracey .. and second day of hearing today …
    - yeshe 10.2.1.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 6:01 pm
      
      @Tracey and Karol … this from today before court … fascinating to me …
      
      Speaking to the media outside court, Kim Dotcom’s lawyer Paul Davison says they have presented evidence of a meeting four years ago between Mr Key and the Chief Executive of Warner Brothers.
      
      “There was a meeting back in October 2010 attended by the senior people of immigration of New Zealand and the Minister of Immigration,” Mr Davison says.
      
      “But that’s as far as the evidence goes at this stage.”
      
      The elusive Warner Brothers email won’t be part of any evidence presented today.
      
      http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/dotcom-s-lawyers-back-in-court-6082608
dave 11

16 September 2014 at 9:52 am

I think it was privilege to hear from such learned people god I hope key falls this weekend the last 6 years have just one big lie rock star economy to this and dirty politics key is out of control
- yeshe 11.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 10:30 am
  
  It was almost as if our media had been summoned before the erudite and eloquent Deans of Faculty and found wanting in their exam results !!
ewingsc 12

16 September 2014 at 10:04 am

New Zealand ~ Who’s Running The Show & In Whose Interests?
yeshe 13

16 September 2014 at 11:12 am

Toby Manhire tweet … wonder who ?

Toby Manhire ‏@toby_etc 1h
@gtiso worth noting that a number of NZ senior journalists (I know of at least three) were actively trying to collaborate with Greenwald
- Tracey 13.1
  
  16 September 2014 at 11:16 am
  
  why not just name them and what does he mean by collaborating?
  - yeshe 13.1.1
    
    16 September 2014 at 11:23 am
    
    we might find out in coming days …
    
    and where is Jason Ede ? he must be so happy to have fallen from the headlines, at least for now ..
  - karol 13.1.2
    
    16 September 2014 at 11:43 am
    
    Manhire later tweeted the journos told him in confidence.
    - Tracey 13.1.2.1
      
      16 September 2014 at 11:49 am
      
      probably for the SST, the day after the election 😉
    - yeshe 13.1.2.2
      
      16 September 2014 at 12:22 pm
      
      Thx karol .. actually, Corin Dann was noteworthy for me this morning … a clear determination to get some very specific answers from Key .. a swift change in bias I thought.
      
      Shame he is not doing the short leaders’ debate.
      
      @tracey .. probably !
Iron Sky 14

16 September 2014 at 1:24 pm

Other world wide: Articles about The Moment of Truth

Note, use different search engines. Note was not conducted in any other language

http://time.com/3377692/snowden-nsa-new-zealand/

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/snowden-assange-greenwald-dotcom-can-this-gang-of

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/09/15/edward-snowden-says-nsa-is-collecting-mass-surveillance-data-on-new-zealanders/

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-edward-snowden-new-zealand-mass-surveillance-20140915-story.html

Note the right wing nature of most of these publications….

They are on the ball in terms of timing
Sable 15

16 September 2014 at 1:54 pm

It was refreshing to see a real journalist in action on The Moment of Truth not the mostly right wing, biased muppets, we have inflicted upon us in this country.

Still the reality is the job of reporting on the fabulous work of these dedicated people falls to media organisations who are in my opinion in many cases nothing less than scribes for this shady government. You can hardly expect an accurate, objective outcome.
yeshe 16

16 September 2014 at 4:04 pm

This tale of two men .. from a comment on Stuff, but it’s worth a post here imo .. from SJDjack:

“One, a large German made his wealth rather innocuously in the field of file sharing & the internet. It is yet to be proved that what he did was illegal & the ramifications were the possible diluting of several multinational media companies profits & consequently that of their generally wealthy shareholders.

For this he has been arrested, imprisoned, vilified, abused & insulted by the government of the country he has chosen to call his home.

The other man, an NZer, made his vast fortune as a derivatives & money trader. Working mainly on Wall Street he was employed by the company that ultimately precipitated the huge financial collapse that bought ruin to millions of people who lost their savings, investment & future.

At the time the derivatives trading they carried out was considered illegal.

This company morphed into The Bank of America, in which John Key still has large investments & to which NZ owes vast amounts of money by way of loans.

One man is portrayed as a conspirator who is intent on destabilizing the government & disrupting the peaceful lives of our citizens; the other portrayed as the smiling face & much admired leader of the current government that is pursuing the intruder.

As I watch this bizarre interaction unfold I hope for a clear & complete resolution so that a return to transparent, honest, compassionate & inclusive government for the people of Aotearoa might begin.”