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Open mike 12/11/2013

Written By: - Date published: 7:05 am, November 12th, 2013 - 184 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike …

184 comments on “Open mike 12/11/2013 ”

  1. Te Reo Putake 1

    Some interesting observations from former UK PM John Major on the elite’s control of the levers of power:


    • miravox 1.1

      That’s an amazing article… make me wonder why he’s still Tory.

      Major said: “I remember enough of my past to be outraged on behalf of the people abandoned when social mobility is lost

      “Our education system should help children out of the circumstances in which they were born, not lock them into the circumstances in which they were born. “We need them to fly as high as their luck, their ability and their sheer hard graft can actually take them. And it isn’t going to happen magically.”

      Having said that, although most of the Conservatives, judges and lawyers were public-schooled, about a quarter of the Labour cabinet are public school boys too.

      The Brits at least need MMP for a bit of diversity. Maybe Russell Brand will see the<a href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/russell-brand-democratic-system-newsnight&quot;. point in voting then.

      My favourite experiences since Paxman-nacht are both examples of the dialogue it sparked. Firstly my friend’s 15-year-old son wrote an essay for his politics class after he read my New Statesman piece. He didn’t agree with everything I said, he prefers the idea of spoiling ballots to not voting “to show we do care” maybe he’s right, I don’t know…

      There is momentum building in the UK, I reckon, but when it has nowhere to go the outlook is not good.

    • David H 1.2

      And the last paragraph is telling no matter what party you are from. Labour should take note if they want to win in 2014

      Major called for loyalty from party members, saying: “Public criticism is destructive. Take it from me. Political parties who are divided and torn simply do not win general elections.”

      • Chocolate 1.2.1

        Loyalty goes both ways, as well as ensuring respectful terms of engagement from MPs with party members, including staffers and residents of the electorates. There is still room for improvement with some Labour MPs, most particularly an electorate MP who cannot help herself but is being self- and party-destructive, causing bridges to be burnt with people inside and outside the party who are meant to be her pillars and buttresses of political support. The Labour party vote was lost at the previous election and, at the rate she is imploding, the electorate vote will be lost next year.

        • Chocolate


          ….. as well as MPs ensuring respectful terms of engagement with ……

          • Colonial Viper

            fyi Dunedin South electorate boundaries will be expanding for 2014 elections and will now take up considerably more South Otago rural area which used to be Clutha Southland (an electorate that I have more than a passing familiarity with).

  2. karol 2

    Maybe we should have a Parliamentary speaker who isn’t a part of the wealthy property owning classes. Maybe then we would get rulings aimed at getting at the truth of the damaging extent of inequalities and the war on the poor.

    • Paul 2.1

      What did the Nats do to annoy the Herald?

      • David H 2.1.1

        Dunno Paul. But what would be even more interesting, if you were a fly on the wall, when Key and co first saw the articles. A few mouthfuls of coffee spat out?

    • David H 2.2

      How about a Speaker with a modicum of impartiality. But I will not hold my breath. Tho he is the worst I have seen in the last 20 years

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.2.1

        He’s about the same as Wilson. Which is to say appalling.

      • TheContrarian 2.2.2

        I really liked Lockwood. Carter…not so much…

        • Tracey

          I think Lockwood was the best Speaker in my lifetime.

          It could just be the contrast between Wilson and Carter is SOOOOOOO large

          I can see why the Nats wanted him gone before election year.

  3. bata bullets are back..!



    phillip ure..

  4. logie97 4

    Herald smear headline says

    “In the second part of a Herald investigation, we look at the MPs’ property rich list. The top ten MPs, what they own and why a Labour MP didn’t declare her trusteeship…”

    On reading to find out who this cheat might be, it would appear the “she” to be Nicky Wagner, who on my last reckoning, is a Blue Ribbon National MP. http://www.nickywagner.co.nz


    (Can’t tell you how much against the grain that was to visit Wagner’s site for verification)

    • karol 4.1

      At the bottom of the Herald article, Wagner is listed as a Nat MP. So, the reference to a Labour MP is a mystery. Or maybe the front page blurb writer just doesn’t read articles properly?

    • Tat Loo (CV) 4.2

      Looking at the figures owned by National MPs, remind me what the problem the RWNJs had with Cunliffe’s (much cheaper) Herne Bay house?

      • Tiger Mountain 4.2.1

        What a pack of millionaire…. choose your own words….. mine are ‘hypocritical tory arseholes’, for taking breaks off workers and opposing a living wage for many of us.

        • infused

          work harder then.

          • Tat Loo (CV)

            work harder then.

            NZers work more hours than almost everyone else in the OECD. You want us to be slaves to capitalists?

            • thatguynz

              I would suggest that is precisely what he wants.

            • Tiger Mountain

              Well the tier of moneybags as mentioned in the Herald get their loot from a mix of inherited wealth, speculative activity–property and finance capital, and exploitation of workers and the environment.

              The hardest work most of these tories do is deciding where to have lunch. There would be many more millionaires if hard work counted. The dirty little secret of capitalism is built in–the tiny group of owners of the system and their favoured minions appropriate the excess or surplus value as Marx termed it that workers labour creates over the wages they are paid.

            • photonz


              Average hours worked in OECD countries is 1765.
              Average hours worrked in NZ is 1739.

              Meaning we work LESS hours than the OECD average.

              From 2012 OECD stats – see

              • McFlock

                “almost everyone else in the oecd” was an exaggeration. According to the table you linked to, we’re about 15th from the top and 21 from the bottom, when in descending 2012 order.

                So “more than most”.
                But fun to see that you don’t know what relationship the mean has to the midpoint in a highly skewed dataset (i.e. none)

              • Tracey

                So today you support OECD stats. yesterday you challenged their stats for disposable income (below average) and cost of accommodation, second bottom with only Greece below. Which is it photonz?

                You also railed against living wage yet yesterday said you are the lowest paid of anyone in your company… you receiving less than $18 an hour then??

            • infused

              This string of comments sums up the left. Give it to me without working for it.

              • thatguynz

                Hate to burst your infantile bubble Infused but I work > 40 hours a week, own two companies, earn enough for others to possibly consider me as part of the 5% yet I am socially left leaning on quite a large number of issues. Kinda buggers up your straw man a bit doesn’t it?

              • politikiwi

                On the contrary, I think the key distinction between right and left wing views on wages is that people on the left believe in paying people as much as possible, and people on the right believe in paying people as little as possible.

                That’s the goal of capitalism, though, isn’t it? Extract as much value from workers as possible whilst giving them as little of that value as you can possibly get away with.

                It’s got nothing to do with how “hard” someone works. How much you get paid, in broad terms, seems to come down to (1) how much money you can make for someone or (2) how much money (or hassle / stress) you can save someone, and (3) how many other people are willing and able to do that job to a given standard. If you can make someone millions and you’re the only person alive capable of doing it, you’re going to make a lot more money than if you’re going to save someone a pittance doing something anyone could do.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  How much you get paid, in broad terms, seems to come down to…

                  4) How many people you can over-charge while paying the workers actually doing the work as little as possible.

                  • Rogue Trooper

                    that is interesting; had been thinking about the charging companies I worked for did regarding ‘kits’. Flat-charge, even if all the components were not required, and subsequently used on a following overhaul, which was charged also for the entire kit.
                    And, and, then, there was this bakery owner ( petite bourgeoisie ) who had his staff scrape the cream from cakes at the end of the day’s business to reuse the following day… and so on, and so on.

              • framu

                yeah no one said that – so either your extremely dense or your taking the piss

                try harder next time moran

                and seeing as disclosure is happening – im in the top tax bracket, regularly work more than 40 hours, work from home without getting paid and dont mind paying taxes when they are spent creating a decent society

                I dont have kids, dont gamble, smoke or drink (except a beer or two every now and then)

                I dont claim any state assistance of any kind

                Im one of those tax positive people you fools love to bang on about

                thatguynz is right – your a baby

                • Tracey


                  I fit into most of the categories you outline.

                  • politikiwi


                    Ditto for me – I’m another of those strange beasts the right don’t understand: a leftie on the top tax rate. Unlike John Key, I haven’t forgotten what it was like growing up in a cold state house, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

              • muzza

                Confused as usual…Try to leave your bias out of your comments bro, can you manage that!

                You’re as much of a slave as anyone else, although like the handle King Kong, you both don’t seem to understand the how, or why!

              • Tracey

                infused —please show where anyone has suggested that people should get something without working for it?

                Could you please cite the research which indicates a correlation between how hard someone works and the wage they receive?

                Could you cite the research which sets out a method for measuring hard work, working harder etc

                Could you cite the research which shows that everyone who works harder will become a millionaire?

          • Tracey

            Could you please cite the research which indicates a correlation between how hard someone works and the wage they receive?

            Could you cite the research which sets out a method for measuring hard work, working harder etc

            Could you cite the research which shows that everyone who works harder will become a millionaire?

            • Tat Loo (CV)

              They focus on the individual in order to distract people from seeing the economic system deliberately designed to keep a vast majority of people (and entire countries in fact) on struggle street.

              • monty

                Really, the “entire country on struggle street”, that is a massive stretch
                I am not on struggle street.

                I wake up each day and choose my path.

                I dont have a university degree, wasnt very good at schoool, but came from a family that installed good work discplines and ethics. I work hard, got promotions, showed initiative and get payed accordingly.

                If you choose to do better in life then you can.

                • Tiger Mountain

                  Montykins, welcome back. Indulge in subjective thinking by all means, but have you become a squillionaire or captain of industry yet?

                  • monty

                    No, I haven’t. I am not struggling and I have a really good life, with a good number of goals i want to achieve.

                    So to say everyone in the country is on struggle street is a real stretch.

                    • framu

                      “So to say everyone in the country is on struggle street is a real stretch.”

                      yes such a stretch that it wasnt even said

                      “deliberately designed to keep a vast majority of people (and entire countries in fact)”

                      the country wasnt defined as NZ was it

                    • Tracey

                      infused says if you work harder you can be a millionaire monty

                • thatguynz

                  Point of note Monty – Tat didn’t say “entire country on struggle street” at all nor did he say that it pertained specifically to all of NZ. He said “and entire countries in fact”. I suggest that he is factually correct as there are countries that have been crippled by the current economic system – Greece comes to mind for a start..

                  • muzza

                    Correct “entire countries”, but make no mistake, large swaths of the population of NZ are well an truly on struggle street.

                    There are many others who will not be able to accept they are in that same group, but are, and will be evidently so with a minor raise of interest rates, or a semi serious illness, or other unfortunate turn of events, be it natural or manufactured!

                • Tracey

                  and yet you choose to support a government that lies (were these the ethics you parents “installed” in you?) and one that believes by giving as much as possible to the few one day (in the future at an indeterminate point) the 99% will prosper.

                  • Monty

                    Hmm Tracey, my mother is a green voter much to my horror, changing from labour at the last election in protest of they way they acted.

                    My father is unionist and very strong Labour voter.

                    When did I say I supported the government. I just take exception to those who believe they don’t have to do a honest days work and the government owes them a living. Yes before the nutters have a go they should be paid so they can support themselves and their families.

                    I also stand correct I misread what Tat said, my apologies Tat.

                    My message is the same, if you choose to do better in your life you will.

                    • Tat Loo (CV)

                      No probs Monty.

                      My message is the same, if you choose to do better in your life you will.

                      This is a statement I agree with Monty. I simply want the ladders to be there, with good strong rungs, when people decide that they want to climb.

  5. politikiwi 5

    Trying to reply to Karol but there’s no reply option in mobile…?

    I wonder if the financial position of MPs should be added to Labour’s recent efforts to make their parliamentary presence align better with the countries population as a whole? Having so many multi millionaires in parliament isn’t very representative of the country as a whole

    • Lanthanide 5.1

      Yeah, I’ve wondered why the mobile doesn’t have a reply button for particular comments. Makes it pretty much unusable IMO. Pity.

    • Herodotus 5.2

      I had the same problem, found that by allowing cookies but blocking 3rd parties
      ( under settings , privacy and security )allows me to respond. It took over a month to work that out. Hope this helps 🙂
      This was after having all computers at home being taken just over a month ago.

      • Rogue Trooper 5.2.1

        by who, burglars?

        • Herodotus

          Yes, unfortunately.
          Timing is good with the new iPad , so not all bad. Tough living with only the iPhone as your only means of accessing the internet. And only being a reader to the site, until I found out my problem with the phones setup; of not allowing cookies, and how many sites (like this one) have limited functionality under such a setup.
          Will say the police have been great, and have kept us up with their i.

  6. oh..!..and after the two puke-inducing interviews from the media-trout/compere of tv3 breakfast..this morn..

    ..where in interviewing (‘saucer-eyes’) craig the compere described key as a ‘centrist-politician’..

    ..(cue keys’ spin-doctors rubbing their hands with glee..’it’s working..!..it’s working..!’..)

    ..followed by an interview where the (simpering to/at key) compere had his tongue so far up keys’ arse his grovelling-words were muffled/barely audible….

    ..i have decided to enact a personal total-ban on both that compere..and that television show..

    ..phillip ure..

  7. Tracey 7


    Doesnt seem like an error ng would make.

  8. miravox 8

    Fathers of murdered daughters speak out against the ‘bro code’ between mates

    “He called her a whore in front of other people. Now I may be old-fashioned, but when a woman looks nice you don’t tell her she looks like a whore,” Longley said.

    “We saw that again with these Roast Busters with their demeaning, nasty behaviour towards women.”

    Longley is calling on friends of the Roast Busters to confront them over their actions. Friends held the “moral compass” for young people, he said.

    “The message is for other men, mates of these guys, you need to step in and put a stop to it.

    “You can curtail that behaviour before it gets to the point it did with Emily.”

    An answer to the missing piece in to reducing violence against anybody. Seriously important, imo.

  9. millsy 9

    The Tongariro Crossing on your bucket list?

    Suggest you do it soon

    National has this habit of dishing out conservation land to iwi who lock it all up…

  10. Paul 10

    Maybe we could learn from the Swedes.
    By comparison NZ’s population just over 4 million and over 8000 in prison.. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/11/sweden-closes-prisons-number-inmates-plummets

  11. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11

    Socialism. Got to love it:


  12. greywarbler 12

    Google has a heading of ‘News for the standard nz’ – What is this? There are a number of items – are they connected to some referred to in the blog and that noted in the Google page?

    Anyway I looked and some bloke is being charged with a frequent crime – ‘A 31-year-old man will appear in the Invercargill District Court today charged with reckless driving and unlawfully taking a motor vehicle.’ I hope that that will be expanded, it had better be. He was hitchhiking and took at about 1pm a 4wd parked outside a store. In the back was a sleeping baby which he soon discovered. He stopped, put the baby in its car seat at the side of the road and drove off. Luckily someone who was a real person with standards saw this, and stayed with the baby until police could get there.

    This says something about the lack of standards and responsibility to behave decently that we are seeing in some young men. There seems a large, how large?, percentage of mostly, men who just suck out of society what they want, give as little as possible. Parents should be told from birth that it is part of their task to give their children morals guidelines, and later they should be accountable in Court if their children are committing criminal offences. (At a minor level this would be working with police as in diversion. One of my sons stole an audio cassette which was
    concerning to me and we had to find some community service for him, which I had to supervise and get signed off by the person who received the service.)

    • greywarbler 12.1

      I see that Google picks out items with both – the standard and – nz in and then lists them under the heading of News for the standard nz. Just the way that searches work.

  13. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 13



    • Puddleglum 13.1

      Yes, it is surprising.

      Especially given his strong approval ratings as an MP.

      • Tat Loo (CV) 13.1.1

        Labour is being seen as a strong alternative again, and Harawira is going to have trouble holding on to that slim majority. I hope his camapaign team is doing some strong ground work right now.

        • phillip ure

          my five cents worth on the pressures/dynamics/perils around harawira holding his seat..


          phillip ure..

        • marty mars

          I think the perception of labour has changed but proof of the pudding and all that. I can’t see davis getting up but that’s just my opinion. The sample from the electorate seem to be happy with Hone – long may it continue.

          There was strong backing for Harawira’s performance as the local MP with 14 per cent rating it “fantastic”, 39 per cent above average and 31 per cent average.

          Only 12 per cent rated it either below average or poor.

          I think a lot of MP’s would cut the tip of their pinky off to have that support.

          • bad12

            This is where MMP politics becomes interesting, and, the different approaches of both major parties are highlighted,

            Have a look at National, up against it with sliding numbers in the polls and with all 3 of it’s coalition partners pretty much stuffed they simply call in the favors from the editors and programers from across the mass media spectrum and beat the drums loudly and longly for Colin Craig’s Conservatives, hey presto people are talking like the Conservatives ‘are’ a part of the mix,

            Labour, pfft, as far as the electorates are concerned the age of the Dinosaur seems to have not escaped Labour who still openly talk of taking all the Maori electorates ‘back’, now under the auspices of the old FPP system that is a laudable sentiment to be expressing, under MMP tho in my opinion its the height of f**king stupidity on the part of Labour,

            There are conceivably 2 electorate seats that Hone’s Mana Party can win in November 2014, Hone’s own Te Tai Tokerau and Waiariki where in 2011 Annette Sykes came within 1000 votes of toppling the incumbent Te Ururoa Flavell, there is a chance of Mana picking up an extra seat from the party vote,

            And Labour want to go hard out and contest those electorates??? what could they possibly gain by playing FFP politics where those politics no longer exist, the obvious answer to that little question of course is another 3 on the Opposition Benches,

            Labour right now should be talking DEALS with Mana over the Maori seats, a pretty simple equation would be for Labour not to stand in the Te Tai Tokerau and Waiariki electorates and for Mana not to stand in the Tamaki Makaurau and Te Tai Hauauru seats,

            MMP politcs for the BIG players aint about the number of electorates you win, it’s about the Paaaaaarrrrty Vote, get it,

            MMP politics is about COALITIONS, dealing with those of a like mind and if needs must, just as National are showing, doing deals to ensure there is a growing number of coalition partners in the electoral mix….

  14. Chooky 14

    Despite all the moral concern and outrage expressed on ‘the standard’ about….

    1) young girls and alcohol…alcohol use/abuse…drunkenness in general by young New Zealanders
    2) teenage boy sex gang Roast Busters and rape and sexual abuse of underage girls….
    3)..patriarchy, sexism and abuse of women in general
    4.)JT and Willy ‘s insensitive interviewing of a young abuse victim….and their subsequent suspension from radioLive ( much to the outrage of my teenage son!..ha ha)
    5)how NZ parents are not being responsible and bringing up children properly
    6)the Auckland (Catholic family man) Mayor Len Brown’s sex scandal…two years of frolicking and cavorting conducted on Council sacred property and at Sky City gambling casino with a young Asian whose sympathies were actually with the other side and who was working with the other side
    7)the Auckland police and their cynicism, ineptitude or worse…..

    ….nothing has been said about the building of Aucklands 15 story meg-brothel (opposite the Sky Tower) ….why?….I would like to hear reasons why , because this has the potential to really embed sexual abuse of NZ girls and women…. in the very heart of Auckland City forever…



    • Lanthanide 14.1

      Self-matyrdom there, mate.

    • McFlock 14.2

      because you didn’t write a post about it.

    • Chooky 14.3

      …is Auckland heading to become the Bangkok of the South Pacific?

      ….imo Labour and the Greens ignore this issue at their peril…because one thing is for certain…. the Conservatives will be watching and waiting

      ……(and so will NZFirst )…..and they could swing the 2014 Election for National if they get enough support

      • muzza 14.3.1

        Chooky, Auckland’s future is already evident, and locked in with assurance that no party/govt from the current landscape will be addressing the real issues that are going to make genuine directional change, so people are left to postulate around the periphery, of issues impacting our ever declining habitats!

        The variables for AKL/All cities/towns/NZ:

        1: How bad
        2: How long

    • Bill Drees 14.4

      William Massey loves you, Chooky.

      • Chooky 14.4.1

        …why does William Massey love me?

        ….last time I think you told me he was rolling over in his grave at my comments?… and in your opinion I was not worthy to be on such an esteemed site as ‘ the Standard’ (lol)

        ….who is William Massey?….. and hope I this a compliment?

    • QoT 14.5

      Sex work isn’t the same as sexual abuse.

      (And before you state the bloody obvious, no I’m not condoning coercion nor saying all sex work is perfect and consensual. And you know it.)

      • Colonial Viper 14.5.1

        Of course it’s not the same but is it not just another brick in the wall of rape culture? Especially when a couple of guys are in charge taking a big cut making a huge amount of money off the women.

        • Rogue Trooper

          “There’s no business like Cho business” (from The Mentalist ).
          anyway, what’s with the generalizations, many sex workers are mistresses, and masters, of their own destiny. Trust me, I know. Now, let me tell you a little about their professional sports person clientage …

          • Tat Loo (CV)

            Yeah, man I know. Also I’ve looked after some interesting bad backs in my time and sometimes the patient fees I charge might be justifiably written off by some as their business expenses…

        • Chooky

          @ CV +1….talk about a feminist industry!!!…ha bloody ha……and some so called ‘feminists’ are confused and confusing …..almost makes me feel sorry for some of the confused lads out there who have recently been hauled over the coals and had their knuckles smacked

          imo sex work and sex abuse are often the same ….considering many of those involved in sex work are damaged and have been abused….it is very difficult to unravel

        • Tracey

          and their building conveniently collapsing…

      • Chooky 14.5.2

        @ QoT..you alright with ‘barn farming women’ like animals?…..You are so naive!…visit Bangkok…talk to people who know about child and young women abuse and corruption:

        1)…how many women are coerced into prostitution?…how many women get into prostitution because of child abuse, lack of education, lack of well paid meaningful work….drug addictions?

        2) …..as a woman it restricts your freedom of movement….it restricts where you as a woman or child can safely walk in the streets and areas after dark

        3.) …it creates a climate of corruption in which ANY woman is fair game…and all women and girls are potential prostitutes… ordinary women run the risk of being regarded as prostitutes …
        ….i know this personally because i used to work in a union, next door to a brothel and i was accosted on the street and asked “How Much?”……he must have been watching me come out the door….the guy was panting…..i was wearing office work clothes…it was broad day light at mid-day…i was shocked and felt violated and disgusted….i hate to think what would have happened if I had been working late..and it had been another psychopathic guy in the dark, in the alley- way in which both buildings were located ( this one seemed fairly nice and was shocked at my reaction ….and his mistake..his mates laughed at him)…there was also an up market restaurant in that alley way

        4..)….any woman or girl is fair game because society condones this behaviour where women are objectified and used….legalising prostitution has not protected prostitutes…. judging by the numbers of prostitute murders in Christchurch since it was legalised

        6.) i have no objection to prostitution if it is hidden and a woman runs her own business discretely…and prostitution does not foul certain streets with condoms and needles

        • Tracey

          I doubt QoT would disagree with much of what you wrote but why not make it a separate topic because it IS a different view on a similar spectrum…

          but it is not the same as gang rape.

          Seems odd to me that you would be railing against people who probably, on the whole agree with the tenet of what you are writing.

          • Chooky

            @ tracey

            ….why make it a separate topic when it is the elephant in the room?
            ….why are so called feminists ignoring the elephant in the room?

  15. the national party/govt..

    ..millionaire rich-pricks..

    ..ruling for/in the interests of themselves..

    ..and other millionaire rich-pricks..

    ..it’s as simple as that..

    ..phillip ure..

  16. So far this story appears to have effectively been censored on mainstream media, (and this post is currently ‘awaiting moderation’ on Kiwiblog) .

    So – it must be HOT? 🙂

    [lprent: Alternatively it could simply be that you hit the “large number of links” trigger for automatic moderation – just like you did here. Then it gets released whenever someone has a time to glance over it, decide that you are not a ‘bot and release it. No particular reason to think that there is a Penny Bright conspiracy. BLip has exactly the same problem when he posts his lists. ]


    URGENT! ‘Whistle-blower ALERT’ to international ‘anti money-laundering’ bodies:
    The NZ International Convention Centre Bill effectively undermines the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009

    Transparency International

    12 November 2013

    Please be advised that as an ‘anti-corruption Public Watchdog’ – I am hereby ‘blowing the whistle’ to the following ‘anti money-laundering’ bodies to which New Zealand is affiliated, because the NZ International Convention Centre Bill effectively undermines the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009:

    (Tuesday, 12 November 2013

    Business before the House

    Government orders of the day

    Name of bill Stage of Bill

    Minister in charge consideration no Times for debate

    1 New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill 140–2 12 x 10 m speeches

    Hon Steven Joyce Third reading)



    Asia/Pacific Group on Money Laundering (APG)

    The purpose of the Asia/Pacific Group on Money Laundering (APG) is to ensure the adoption, implementation and enforcement of internationally accepted anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing standards as set out in the FATF Forty Recommendations and FATF Eight Special Recommendations. The effort includes assisting countries and territories of the region in enacting laws to deal with the proceeds of crime, mutual legal assistance, confiscation, forfeiture and extradition; providing guidance in setting up systems for reporting and investigating suspicious transactions and helping in the establishment of financial intelligence units. The APG also enables regional factors to be taken into account in the implementation of anti-money laundering measures.

    The origins of the APG go back to “awareness raising” activities undertaken by the FATF in the early 1990s as part of its strategy to encourage adoption of money laundering counter-measures throughout the world. In order to achieve more concrete results, Australia agreed to set up a Secretariat for the purpose of obtaining regional commitment and establishing a regional FATF-style body with practical objectives. Subsequently, an agreement was reached in Bangkok in 1997 which created the APG. The first meeting was held in Tokyo in 1998 and then annually thereafter.

    Following the events of 11 September 2001, the APG expanded its scope to include the countering of terrorist financing. The APG conducts mutual evaluations of its members and holds a periodic workshop on money laundering methods and trends. Its work mandate has been set out in a document containing specific terms of reference for the group.

    The APG is supported by a Secretariat, which serves as the focal point for its activities. The APG became an Associate Member of the FATF in 2006.

    For more information, please consult the APG website at http://www.apgml.org.


    APG Members:

    Bhutan, Kingdom of
    Brunei Darussalam
    China, People’s Republic of
    Cook Islands
    Hong Kong, China
    Republic of Korea (South Korea)
    Lao People’s Democratic Republic
    Macao, China
    The Marshall Islands
    New Zealand
    Papua New Guinea
    The Philippines
    Solomon Islands
    Sri Lanka
    Chinese Taipei
    Timor Leste
    United States of America


    The first co-operative and global policy response to the threats posed by money laundering was by the G7 group of countries who established the FATF in 1989. Since 1989, the FATF has produced a comprehensive set of international standards against money laundering and terrorist financing. The core documents of the FATF include:

    The 2012 revised FATF 40 Recommendations on Money Laundering , Terrorist Financing and Proliferation Financing (“the standards”), which includes interpretative notes;
    Methodology for assessing compliance with the standards; and
    Best Practice Guidelines for implementation of the standards.

    The 2012 FATF standards contain certain core, or essential, recommendations including the requirement to:

    Criminalise money laundering, terrorist financing and proliferation financing in accordance with international law;

    Freeze terrorist assets and confiscate the proceeds of crime;

    Establish a financial intelligence unit to collect, analyse, evaluate and disseminate suspicious transaction reports from financial institutions and other reporting entities;

    Supervise those financial institutions and other reporting entities to ensure compliance with customer due diligence and other requirements contained in the standards; and

    Ensure that comprehensive and effective mechanisms are in place to cooperate effectively on the international level given the growing international dimension to these crimes.

    These standards have been accepted internationally as the global policy benchmark for anti-money laundering, anti-terrorist financing and anti-proliferation financing measures by the United Nations, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, Asian Development Bank and many other international organisations and bodies. The key changes to the FATF standards included in the 2012 revised version are as follows:

    Requirement for countries to undertake a national risk assessment;

    Measures relating to proliferation financing;

    Addition of tax crimes as predicate offences to money laundering;

    Measures relating to domestic politically exposed persons;

    Requirement for countries to ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.



    (Sent 11 November 2013 at 10.45pm) )


    The NZ International Convention Centre Bill effectively undermines the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009:

    So – please confirm that YOU will NOT vote it.


    According to the ‘Provisional’ Order Paper for the NZ Parliament, the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill is set down for its ‘third reading’ on Tuesday 12 November 2013:


    Tuesday, 12 November 2013
    Business before the House

    Government orders of the day

    Name of bill Stage of Bill

    Minister in charge consideration no Times for debate

    1 New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill 140–2 12 x 10 m speeches

    Hon Steven Joyce Third reading

    The NZ International Convention Centre Bill, effectively covers and facilitates money-laundering, because there has been no ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering, by OFCANZ, (Organised and Financial Crime Agency of NZ) the body tasked with:

    “Leading, coordinating or contributing to policy or legislative changes to make it harder for organised criminals to operate. There will be opportunities to do so by, for example, making it harder to launder money, or obtain false identities, or by increasing information sharing. …”


    Yet – this OFCANZ OIA reply proves that this purported ‘leading’ agency for fighting money-laundering, did NO ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the NZ International Convention Centre Bill:


    The NZ International Convention Centre Bill, thus effectively undermines the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009:


    3 Purpose

    (1)The purposes of this Act are—

    (a)to detect and deter money laundering and the financing of terrorism; and

    (b)to maintain and enhance New Zealand’s international reputation by adopting, where appropriate in the New Zealand context, recommendations issued by the Financial Action Task Force; and

    (c)to contribute to public confidence in the financial system.

    (2)Accordingly, this Act facilitates co-operation amongst reporting entities, AML/CFT supervisors, and various government agencies, in particular law enforcement and regulatory agencies.

    There are a series of provisions in the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009, which deal with the need for ‘DUE DILIGENCE’:

    Subpart 1—Customer due diligence
    11Customer due diligence
    12Reliance on risk assessment when establishing level of risk
    13Basis for verifying identity
    Standard customer due diligence
    14Circumstances when standard customer due diligence applies
    15Standard customer due diligence: identity requirements
    16Standard customer due diligence: verification of identity requirements
    17Standard customer due diligence: other requirements
    Simplified customer due diligence
    18Circumstances when simplified customer due diligence applies
    19Simplified customer due diligence: identity requirements
    20Simplified customer due diligence: verification of identity requirements
    21Simplified customer due diligence: other requirements
    Enhanced customer due diligence
    22Circumstances when enhanced customer due diligence applies
    23Enhanced customer due diligence: identity requirements
    24Enhanced customer due diligence: verification of identity requirements
    25Enhanced customer due diligence: other requirements
    26Politically exposed person
    27Wire transfers: identity requirements
    28Wire transfers: verification of identity requirements
    29Correspondent banking relationships
    30New or developing technologies, or products, that might favour anonymity
    Ongoing customer due diligence and account monitoring
    31Ongoing customer due diligence and account monitoring
    Reliance on third parties
    32Reliance on member of designated business group
    33Reliance on other reporting entities or persons in another country
    34Reliance on agents
    35Use of information obtained from third party conducting customer due diligence
    36Protection of personal information and designated business groups
    37Prohibitions if customer due diligence not conducted
    38Prohibition on false customer names and customer anonymity
    39Prohibition on establishing or continuing business relationship involving shell bank


    So, how is it that the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill, can be railroaded through Parliament, without any ‘DUE DILIGENCE’, on the increased risk of money-laundering, which the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009, is supposed to help prevent?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’
    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes)


    2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference Attendee

    2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference Attendee

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 16.1

      People ignoring you because you are boring and add nothing is not quite the same thing as “being censored”.

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.1

        I had to page down 11 times to get to the end of her comment. That seems a tad long.

      • thatguynz 16.1.2

        Personally I think Penny adds a lot. Granted the wall of text can at times be a bit daunting to wade through but the underlying messages are typically pretty sound.

        If you think that Penny “adds nothing”, where would you place your contributions on the same continuum TGF?

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          I was explaining that she was being ignored, rather than censored. My comment about the worth of her contributions was relevant in that context only.

          You have to stop obsessing over me thatguynz.

          • thatguynz

            Don’t flatter yourself mate. I fully believe in equality when calling trolls out on their crap. You also didn’t answer my (admittedly rather pointed) question.

        • greywarbler

          Bit of a Standard wailing wall. Or a leaky blog syndrome. I get guilty feelings for some long texts, but it’s interesting, relevant stuff from other sources not always easy to reach. Long things about thoughts and current happenings could be precised and then digested easier.

        • Chooky

          +1…thatguynz….agreed Penny does add a lot….and I don’t blame her for not hanging around ….she sounds like a busy person…

          ….just wish she would do a bit of journalistic re-writing and summarizing however to make her posts more easy to be digested….

      • Tiger Mountain 16.1.3

        Well 10,000 votes in the supercity Mayoral contest is hardly being ignored Gormless.

        But ‘Your Warship’, how about a précis on The Standard e.g. “have sent an open letter to MPs on how the Casino Legislation undermines 2009 Anti money laundering act,–for full text follow the links.

        You will probably be as likely as anyone else that comments here to take my advice (heh, not very likely at all) but I feel shorter posts would engage more readers.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          She was complaining about her being ignored, not me. I am all for ignoring her.

          • Puckish Rogue

            For me even though the posts are long and boring its that she never bothers to hang around and defend what she posts…

            • Tiger Mountain

              I’ve felt that too, (the not debating) sort of dump and run using the standard as a notice board, but that is open mike and no one is obliged to do anything bar read the about and policy.

            • thatguynz

              I frequently disagree with you PR but on this – I agree 100%.

            • fender

              Still, it’s better that than one of those fuckwits posting a whale-snot link in a similar dump and run fashion..

  17. Tracey 17

    I have an issue with a person in a group associated with penny who went after someone I know on a relentless witch hunt. This person imagined all kinds of things which were wrong, made some things up and twisted other things, including spreading the net far and wide and emailing the lies to an entire staff where their victim and my partner worked. My friend aged ten years over what they put him through and they didn’t care who got hauled in their misconceived web (my partner). So, I shall not take Penny, or her group seriously. Except to note they can seriously damage people who are innocent of what they claim.

    There is something offputting about a group crying “conspiracy” and “witch-hunt” inventing conspiracies that don’t exist and engaging in witch hunts, probably obscuring some important stuff they have found along the way by discrediting themselves.

    So yes, I ignore her and scroll on by.

  18. dv 18

    From Scoop
    Key appeared reluctant to extend any primary rape prevention resources into high school (i.e. to prevent rape from happening at all, rather than catching criminals afterwards). He said that it’s important to strike a balance between parents who want more education and those who think that it would cross acceptable boundaries.

    I would suspect there are NO parents who would want there children raped.
    Rape is NOT and acceptable boundary.

    • Tracey 18.1

      That’s Key though, from the job summit to this issue he jus wants to talk, not actually DO anything. Is he not wanting to upset the Conservative Party now???

      Hs he ever sat through a rape prevention programme? Perhaps instead of going to the TAB to bet on horses, he could visit a programme and get educated?

      You can see where parents haven’t objected here


      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.1

        That’s Key though, from the job summit to this issue he jus wants to talk, not actually DO anything.

        Doing stuff actually costs money which means he’d have to reverse the tax cuts he gave the rich.

  19. Colonial Viper 19

    Gower picks good reasons why Colin Craig is going to be a political force

    This is very important for the Left to ponder. Some take the piss out of how socially conservative certain parts of the Labour core vote are (if they still vote Labour nowadays).

    Colin Craig will be more than willing to scoop all those votes up.


    • Tracey 19.1

      the media just have to have a party they can use to make National look moderate. Watch for disproportionate coverage for a party with no representation… coverage which began a year ago with media going to Craig for comment. BUT the media don’t shape public opinion, they reflect it…

    • BM 19.2

      I agree, Craig will actually suck up votes from quite a few different sources

      2.NZ first voters
      3.Labour voters
      4.A few national voters.

      For a guy who’s had no coverage he’s done pretty well to get to 3%, wait till election year roles around and he gets more air time.

      I’d be surprised if he didn’t end up around 8%.

      • Tat Loo (CV) 19.2.1

        4%-5% would be a huge success for Craig in 2014. 8% in 2020 might be possible if they performed politically and consistently.

      • bad12 19.2.2

        Craig took 2000 votes off both Labour and National in the Rodney electorate vote 2011, plus hoovered up 1500 votes previously cast for the dying ACT Party,

        As far as Craig taking votes off NZFirst, they weren’t overly strong in the Rodney electorate in 2011 and dropped a 100 and a few votes, they probably will tho, seeing as Tracey Martin is a sitting MP, gain a few more votes in 2014,

        Interestingly the Green Party gained 1300 Party votes from that electorate compared with the 2008 result…

    • marty mars 19.3

      Interesting. Some great comments under the article. I wonder if he can pull the conservative christian vote onto his Party – might be doable. I have only a little problem with him taking votes off whoever – if labour then it would cut off that bit of purification and allow healing leftwards. I can’t see craig getting any from the Greens or Mana. Anyone who votes for ACT, Conservative, or Dunne is indicating their position for me – they don’t have my values.

    • emergency mike 19.4

      National Party fanboy 3news political editor Gower sez, “We’ll be seeing more of National’s new potential coalition partner Colin Craig, he’s a real player now.”

      Gee, I wonder if he’s right and Craig will get a bunch more 3news screen-time. I guess we’ll have to wait and see…

  20. captain hook 20

    gosh I would really love to watch parliament but even though I have freeview I cant get it.
    why is this two tier system operating and why is Parliament not free to all?

  21. Bill Drees 22

    The nub of the matter:

    “Of the 238 private superannuation schemes registered in New Zealand, about 40 belong to current MPs and 35 of those are National MPs”
    MPs are to legislate for the benefit of the people. About two million people have superannuation plans or benefits of some kind.

    But only 0.01% of that number has a private scheme.
    And 17% of those are MPs! That is 0.0002% of the 2m.

    Simon Bridges says a private superannuation scheme was not about hiding an asset from public scrutiny.
    If it is a better superannuation vehicle for people with slightly complex income/investment profiles why are there not 100,000+ people using private superannuation schemes?

    Simon Bridges is true to form. He is hiding the truth.

  22. joe90 23

    The new conservative party logo?.

  23. greywarbler 24

    Oxfam Britain plans cuts that may bring help to about one quarter of present. They are concentrating on policy etc. It sounds bad but it may be necessary if the trend of government not wanting to fund any group that also advocates for its people, Oxfam is big enough to speak up.
    Also to force the government to carry out its responsibilities in distribution of the resources of the country to all the community, not just build sexy sports stadiums while the people can’t afford to go there for the circuses and only have denatured white bread.

    Posted by Patrick Butler Monday 11 November 2013 16.01 GMT
    The aid charity spent almost £2.5m on its UK poverty programme in 2012-13, around 1% of its total income. This will drop to at least £1.85m in 2014-15, and the Guardian understands Oxfam is considering a worst-case scenario where its UK spending tapers to as little as £400,000 in future years.
    The cuts are part of a global strategic review through which the charity aims to reduce support for grassroots poverty programmes and re-focuse its resources on influencing decision-makers….

    Oxfam staff are concerned that breaking links with grassroots projects will make it harder for the charity to gather testimony and evidence of poverty, and will undermine its credibility as a champion of social justice in the UK.
    Around half current Oxfam UK poverty spending goes on service delivery programmes, the rest on a mixture of campaigns, communications, policy and research.

  24. political animal?

    Dave Wilson, an anti-gay activist and former fringe candidate for mayor, was an unlikely candidate to win in a district whose voters are overwhelmingly black Democrats, until he devised an advertising strategy to lead voters to think he was black.


  25. Lanthanide 26

    Clearly something rotten over at RadioLive:

    MediaWorks spokeswoman Rachel Lorimer confirmed Plunket had apologised to the mother and daughter.
    The broadcaster has come under fire in the past week after hosts Willie Jackson and John Tamihere were accused of making comments supporting rape culture and victim blaming.

    A third host, Andrew Fagan, also apologised for an interview with a caller named Elle in which he asked if the sex was “consensual” and if she “fancied” her attacker.

  26. Anne 27

    Live interview with David Cunliffe tonight at 8pm.


    Gosh, he’s certainly more accessible than David Shearer was…

  27. Rogue Trooper 28

    People in our Past . Hei!

    knows that the dice are loaded
    Everybody knows the good guys lost (temporarily)
    Everybody knows the fight was fixed,
    The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
    And everybody knows that it’s now or never
    Everybody knows that it’s me or you
    And everybody knows that you live forever
    Ah, when you’ve done a line or two
    Everybody knows the deal is Rotten
    Old black Joe’s still pickin’ cotton
    …For your ribbons and bows
    Everybody knows
    And everybody knows that the plague is coming
    Everybody knows that it’s moving fast
    Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
    Are just a shining artefact of the past
    Everybody knows that the scene is dead
    But there’s going to be a meter on your bed
    That will disclose
    What Everybody Knows.”

    -Cohen / Robinson

  28. lprent 29

    Test comment. Does this mod fix the gateway issue?

    It does. Thank god for that as it will make the anti-spam more effective under the deluge.

  29. Jim 30

    RNZ’s Chris Laidlaw retires from airwaves
    ‘The style and content of the Sunday slot would be reviewed.’
    “A new host would develop new ideas and concepts, but the sense of direction it would take is not yet known,” he said.

    This will give new CEO Paul Thomson and chairman Richard Griffin a chance to change the tone of the show perhaps?

    “In 2006 Christchurch newspaper The Press garnered feedback from some 4,600 readers through surveys, focus groups and public meetings. A major complaint was the amount of space given to crime news. Editor Paul Thompson wrote there would be ‘a more selective approach to court and crime news, particularly coverage of violence and sexual attack, to avoid giving undue weight to those topics’.2 In 2008, as group executive editor of Fairfax Media, which had purchased The Press, Thompson wrote another editorial in which he justified publishing crime news ‘because you, the reader, love this stuff’.”

  30. miravox 31

    Expect to be held to this David” Awesome. It doesn’t mean it won’t go ahead, but still awesome. Maybe Sky would be prudent to hold off on its plans for a few months.

    Labour has warned SkyCity it will not honour compensation clauses in the contract that will see the casino operator build a $402 million international convention centre in exchange for more gaming machines and an extension of its licences.

    Speaking during the debate on the third and final reading of the convention centre law, Labour leader David Cunliffe said there would be no guarantee of extra gaming tables, pokies or compensation under a Labour government.

    “We will not abide by the compensation clauses of that contract,” he said.

    “We will regulate against gaming harm. We will preserve the mana and the authority of the New Zealand Parliament.”

    He said Labour would not do a “dirty deal to indemnify money-laundering and profiteering”.

    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      He’s damn good. Where room to move is needed, he leaves room to move; where a definitive position is needed, he takes it.

      (I hope he learnt from his reply on MP’s pay rises a bit earlier on, which was too wishy washy).

  31. Rhinocrates 32

    Let me say that I’ve had a further communication from a senior police officer relating to previous matters that I believe was in good faith and well intentioned.

    My impression is that certain individuals mean well, even senior ones, but that there is an entrenched culture, so certainly, ANY talk of “bad apples” has to be stamped on immediately.

    Keep pushing awareness of rape culture, not just a few bad apples.

    • Colonial Viper 32.1

      Very pleased for you and hope you are feeling reassured. Good to see you commenting.

    • Murray Olsen 32.2

      I’d feel a bit paranoid if they rang me as well. My first instinct is definitely not to trust them.

  32. captain hook 33

    I hear Radio New Zealand going schizophrenic again this morning. Central Bank and Reserve Bank in the same sentence.
    So which is it or is it just some new hire j-school grad showing off and doing their best to confuse everybody with their belletristic erudition?

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