Open mike 17/07/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 17th, 2011 - 111 comments
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111 comments on “Open mike 17/07/2011 ”

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  1. logie97 1
    17 July 2011 at 7:52 am

    Significant events in New Zealand History – South African Rugby Tour 1981

    Over the last few weeks we have been catching snippets of news replays and interviews with various high profile people who were around in 1981 (including Kathryn Ryan’s interview with Kumi Naidoo) and simply cannot believe Joky Hen’s stated detachment from and disinterest in issues at the time – particularly given he was apparently at University – where issues were in your face!

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2493317/feature-guest-kumi-naidoo.asx

    • mickysavage 1.1
      17 July 2011 at 7:59 am

      Yep. I am John Key’s age and was at University at the same time although at Auckland. I can tell you what I was doing during most of the games and which protests I attended (almost all).

      There are two possibilities for Key’s statement:

      1. He is suffering major medical problems with his memory,
      2. He is lying.

      • Secret Squirrel 1.1.1
        17 July 2011 at 8:14 am

        Links please to back up your claims.

        • mickysavage 1.1.1.1
          17 July 2011 at 8:31 am

          To back up what??

          • Secret Squirrel 1.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2011 at 8:39 am

            You’ve claimed “He is suffering major medical problems with his memory,”

            You must have some evidence to support a major accusation like that or you wouldn’t have made a public statement.

            • mickysavage 1.1.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2011 at 8:48 am

              Read my comment SS. I listed it as a possible explanation, the other one being that Key is telling fibs.

              • Secret Squirrel …
                17 July 2011 at 9:05 am

                So you have absolutely nothing to support your option 1?

                • mickysavage …
                  17 July 2011 at 9:09 am

                  SS

                  None whatsoever. For me I think option 2 is the likely explanation, that is Key is fibbing.

                  • Secret Squirrel …
                    17 July 2011 at 9:32 am

                    Remarkable. Just making things up.

                    • mickysavage …
                      17 July 2011 at 9:42 am

                      Has the English language changed overnight? I was proposing two possibilities to explain a phenomenon and you are claiming that I maintained one was true?

                      Tell me SS do you get paid by CT per post here or do you get a bonus for the especially inane ones?

                    • travellerev …
                      17 July 2011 at 9:48 am

                      SS,
                      I was living in Holland at the time (being Dutch and all) and I remember what I was thinking about NZ and the South African Rugby tour! That’s how big it was. For John not to remember is incomprehensible!

                    • El Mutante …
                      17 July 2011 at 12:17 pm

                      SS/Pete, it’s very simple. It stretches the imagination somewhat that a man of Key’s age has trouble remembering his stance on the events of the 1981 Springbok Tour. Even I can remember it and I was three and a half at the same time and all it looked like to me was a bunch of big blue blokes with moustaches hitting people on the telly. So I think it’s safe to conclude that Jonkey is obfuscating.

                      As for a serious medical problem with his memory, do you really have that flimsy a grasp of basic sarcasm or are you intentionally trying to clog up yet another thread with inane concern trolling?

                    • Secret Squirrel …
                      17 July 2011 at 12:39 pm

                      Concern trolling – concerns about something that happened thirty years ago that has no relevance now?

                    • McFlock …
                      17 July 2011 at 7:03 pm

                      Good trolling, SS – besides the obvious parallels regarding the RWC and Fiji, or indeed a lack of concern about free trade with nations that practise child or slave labour, the fact is that Key’s lack of memmory sums him up nicely.
                       
                      He would rather claim senility than admit to having an actual opinion about some of the most notable events in NZ’s recent history.

                    • mik e …
                      18 July 2011 at 9:57 pm

                      We will get the economy to grow at 4%

        • logie97 1.1.1.2
          17 July 2011 at 8:34 am

          • Tiger Mountain 1.1.1.2.1
            17 July 2011 at 8:44 am

            It is inconceivable that anyone of reasonably sound mind that was around in ’81 does not recall what their opinion on the tour was, especially whilst attending a hothouse of ideas and events such as universities were in that pre ‘bums on seats’ era.

            It is conceivable 30 years later though that someone i.e. Shonkey, might not want to publicly express that opinion in light of todays views on racism etc. and risk the smile and wave narrative. What a slippery character.

            • Jim Nald 1.1.1.2.1.1
              17 July 2011 at 8:49 am

              Hmm, what’s he hiding?

              • Tiger Mountain …
                17 July 2011 at 9:09 am

                Yeah this is one that has not gone away for Key, possibly because there are still thousands of us left that personally experienced the tour. Like Micky I spent weeks at meetings, marches and police stations that winter, and know that it is just NOT possible even for those on the sidelines to not have had an opinion.

                Really who cares if Shonkey had some weasel position on it, the issue is the credibility of the PM of this country.

                • Bill …
                  17 July 2011 at 9:43 am

                  TM

                  It is possible for someone not to have an opinion if the person on the ‘sidelines’ is a narcissist. Such as is John (me) K(me)y.

            • Morrissey 1.1.1.2.1.2
              17 July 2011 at 9:04 am

              especially whilst attending a hothouse of ideas and events such as universities were in that pre ‘bums on seats’ era.

              I doubt that Key was a thinker and debater of any seriousness when he was a student. If he was, he’s certainly changed his habits now.

              To judge from his public utterances on international affairs, he reads little and thinks less.

        • mik e 1.1.1.3
          18 July 2011 at 9:56 pm

          NO new taxes read my lips

      • prism 1.1.2
        17 July 2011 at 10:57 am

        3 He didn’t care and had other more pressing things to think about – his own advancement.

      • the pink postman 1.1.3
        19 July 2011 at 3:29 pm

        Sorry to repeat myself M/S but as I have said on Standard before ,Key seems to have a drink problem. All the symtons are there .Loss of memory, the stupid grinning and hand flaping plus the flounting around and acting the fool. Just take note off the times he photographed with a drink in his hand, Helen always had fruit juice thats why she was so articulate , not like the buffon we are burdened with now.

    • Bill 1.2
      17 July 2011 at 9:07 am

      Would votes be gained for him and his image enhanced by stating that he was anti-tour? No.
      Would votes be lost and his image damaged by stating he was anti-tour? Well, his image would be damaged in the eyes of a percentage of national voters.
      Would votes be gained and his image enhanced if he stated he was pro-tour? No.
      Would votes be lost and his image damaged if he stated he was pro-tour? Well, his image would definately be damaged.

      Let’s face it. He wasn’t anti-tour. He has indicated this quite strongly.

      But if he was to state that overtly, then how would he explain his support of government policy towards Fiji?

      Meanwhile, I’m willing to believe that he was essentially disinterested…neither pro nor anti…out the loop…too wrapped up in his own $$$ concerns to have the tour play a role as a ‘marker’ for memory.

      And again, he can’t state that for obvious reasons of image.

      So his only option, insofar as he relies on image to translate into votes is avoidance

      • Pascal's bookie 1.2.1
        17 July 2011 at 11:46 am

        Not sure that it’s about votes to be honest Bill. I reckon it’s about self image pure and simple.

        He hates to be on the ‘wrong’ side of things, so ‘forgets’, or avoids confronting, examples of that being the case.

        Other examples include not showing up for Melissa Lee on by-election night; refusing to state why Worth was forced out of parliament; his comments on mine safety. etc.

        Much of his rhetorical wrigglyness is for votes, and much of it seems to be based on not really being on top of shit, but some of it, to my eyes at least, looks like cognitive dissonance working its magic.

        • Morrissey 1.2.1.1
          17 July 2011 at 12:12 pm

          He hates to be on the ‘wrong’ side of things, so ‘forgets’, or avoids confronting, examples of that being the case.

          How much cash did Key accept from the Brethren?

    • chris73 1.3
      17 July 2011 at 2:13 pm

      Maybe he, like a number of people at the time, couldn’t care less

      Yes I know the 81 tour was the pinnacle achievement for most of you and that you all like to relive your “glory days” of standing up to “the man”

      But just because it was (and by the sounds of it still is) the most importent thing in your life doesn’t mean its importent to everyone

      • Colonial Viper 1.3.1
        17 July 2011 at 2:19 pm

        normal for doubters like you to downplay the glorious history of prior battles 🙂

        FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

        • chris73 1.3.1.1
          17 July 2011 at 3:15 pm

          Oh no I very much know the value of history as it teachs us so much but this is just a bunch of middle age lefties reliving past glories

          • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.1.1
            17 July 2011 at 3:20 pm

            Its simply passing on the lessons mate, to a new generation which must do the fighting now. Anyways, haven’t you ever had a nice reminisce with old fight buddies over a few beers 🙂

            • chris73 1.3.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2011 at 3:41 pm

              Only on ANZAC day, if you keep living in the past it colours your future

          • logie97 1.3.1.1.2
            17 July 2011 at 3:37 pm

            chris73

            Just take a little time out and listen to the radionz link posted at the top of this thread and you will, perhaps, understand just how important the events around 1981 were to the struggle within South Africa.
            Not a victory for New Zealanders, but a major contribution towards a victory over oppressed peoples.

            Wouldn’t it have been wonderful to hear our current PM being able to say he was proud to have been part of that movement for change, instead of expressing indifference and trying desperately to come up with an explanation for his position.

            What it also exposes, of course, is the shallowness of the subsequent “apologies” from the RFU and many of its ardent supporters here in New Zealand. Hope you were too young to be involved in 1981, otherwise your comments speak volumes about you…

            • chris73 1.3.1.1.2.1
              17 July 2011 at 5:18 pm

              Wouldn’t it have been wonderful to hear our current PM being able to say he was proud to have been part of that movement for change, instead of expressing indifference and trying desperately to come up with an explanation for his position.

              No, I appreciate his honesty as he could easily have said some mealy-mouthed platitude that would have pleased the middle-class and middle-aged liberals

              And as for change just exactly how much better off is South Africa now?

              Higher unemployment, weaker dollar, higher crime levels

              Yeah change is a good thing all right

              • McFlock …
                17 July 2011 at 5:28 pm

                ^ A Kruger-Randian superhero.

                • Tiger Mountain …
                  17 July 2011 at 8:33 pm

                  @ Nat Brown Noser 73: South Africans still have some chance at least to sort their society out via the ballot box which was not possible under the Apartheid system.

                  The SA democratic change unfortunately occured during the height of Reaganism and Thatcherism which made it majorly harder.

              • Colonial Viper …
                17 July 2011 at 5:37 pm

                No, I appreciate his honesty as he could easily have said some mealy-mouthed platitude

                turning a distinct lack of character into something to be admired eh?

              • millsy …
                17 July 2011 at 6:13 pm

                Have to agree there. No sooner than Mandela was let out he embraced neo-liberalism and privatisaton all the way.

                Yes, He was a great man who never lost hope and evenutally achieived his aim, but the neo-liberalism in my mind will always seem like an asterisk to me.

                • Tiger Mountain …
                  17 July 2011 at 8:41 pm

                  Millsy,
                  a reading of the original ANC Freedom Charter shows clearly that it was a national liberation movement, not necessarily an anti captialist or anti US corporate movement. That is why a number of people in the NZ anti apartheid and local anti racist movement in 1981 suggested looking at the programme of the PAC (Pan African Congress) and other left groups.

                  The poor buggers assumed fledgeling parliamentary democracy at the worst of times when neo liberalism was at it’s height.

              • seeker …
                17 July 2011 at 6:18 pm

                “No, I appreciate his honesty as he could easily have said some mealy-mouthed platitude….”

                Let’s break this down:

                “No, I appreciate his honesty “- ….”I can’t remember” is not an honest answer, he’s not old enough to begin losing his memory yet, it’s an evasive answer.

                “as he could easily have said some mealy-mouthed platitude”- he did. and he does, over and over and over again.

                What is wrong with you Chris 73 ?????

            • millsy 1.3.1.1.2.2
              17 July 2011 at 6:11 pm

              Going against the grain slightly, I’m picking that apartheid would have eventually come to an end, tour or not. Depriving over 70 percent of the population of political representation and civil rights was unsustainable.

      • Vicky32 1.3.2
        17 July 2011 at 5:42 pm

        But just because it was (and by the sounds of it still is) the most importent thing in your life doesn’t mean its importent to everyone

        It was important to many more people than you like to believe, Chris! (Such as my late brother who was in his teens at the time) and I…

    • Bored 1.4
      17 July 2011 at 7:38 pm

      Logie, I love Jokey hen…ultimate anagram. Well done, the f**ker doesnt deserve a monicker derived from something as benign as a chicken.

  2. Morrissey 2
    17 July 2011 at 10:09 am

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/07/rebekah-brooks-kemp-bryant
    “Shut up, you homophobic cow”
    An insight into the happy marriage of Rebekah Brooks and Ross Kemp.
    Posted by Duncan Robinson – 08 July 2011 12:49

    The Evening Standard yesterday interviewed Chris Bryant about his tireless efforts to investigate phone-hacking. This, understandably, annoyed Rebekah Brooks (nee Wade). Here’s Bryant’s version of his last meeting with Rupert Murdoch’s favourite seemingly Teflon-coated, flame-haired executive:

    “She came up to me and said, ‘Oh, Mr Bryant, it’s after dark — shouldn’t you be on Clapham Common?”

    “At which point Ross Kemp [the ex-EastEnders actor and her then husband] said, ‘Shut up, you homophobic cow’.”

    Whether or not Kemp continued with “Leave it, you slag. He’s not worth it,” Bryant does not say.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/07/rebekah-brooks-kemp-bryant

  3. travellerev 3
    17 July 2011 at 10:35 am

    I just found back some interesting links and thought to put them here for those of you curious about what really happened on 9/11 and how come the airspace was unprotected for more than 1.5 hours.

    This is a video of Former Sen. Mark Dayton who wants to know why and how it was possible nobody was fired for the fact that the US airspace was unprotected for such a long time and he asks about the lies of the FAA and NORAD during 4 separate hearings.

    This is a link to a radio presentation made by Robin Hordon who is a former FAA air traffic controller and core member of pilots for 911 truth who spells out the 50 year old protocol for dealing with in flight emergencies and hijackings which was violated four times that day.

  4. Secret Squirrel 4
    17 July 2011 at 10:36 am

    Is Key becoming another arrogant politician? He said changing the Parliamentary oath of allegiance is not something he’s considered so it is not likely to change any time soon.

    He will ignore the people and make his own decision? This is very poor from him, one of his weaknesses. He’s done this before, including jumping to rule out CGT.

    He’s in danger of becoming just another politician too obsessed with his own opinion and power.

    John Key pledges to not listen.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1
      17 July 2011 at 2:17 pm

      Is Key becoming another arrogant politician?

      Nope, he’s always been an arrogant arse-hole obsessed with his own opinion and power.

      • chris73 4.1.1
        17 July 2011 at 2:30 pm

        Sounds like a Labour MP, maybe hes in the wrong party?

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1
          17 July 2011 at 3:18 pm

          Nope, those are necessary pre-conditions for belonging to NAct. To belong to a leftish party requires that you do have concern for others.

    • chris73 4.2
      17 July 2011 at 2:27 pm

      More likely hes thinking theres more importent things to worry about

    • Colonial Viper 4.3
      17 July 2011 at 2:27 pm

      He will ignore the people and make his own decision?

      That’s such an odd thing for you to say given that ‘his own decisions’ are whatever the National focus groups like the sound of.

  5. prism 5
    17 July 2011 at 11:08 am

    Further on Christchurch and the thinking on its progress and difficulties. On Chris Laidlaw this morning Radionz see below. This guy Regan Potangaroa is very clear headed, looking for a real understanding of what is needed, and sounds like a problem solver with good human values. A person to respect and listen out for when he makes comment. Also this group Engineers without Borders group sounds as if they are practical thinkers with minds open to finding solutions that work for people.

    10:06 Regan Potangaroa – Engineering Change
    For nearly 15 years, Dr Potangaroa has been involved in humanitarian aid and post disaster work in places such as Haiti, Sudan, Pakistan and Indonesia. More recently he has been working in Christchurch and he talks to Chris about humanitarian engineering – applying engineering principles directly to helping people hit by poverty and disaster, by providing clean drinking water, roads and houses. He also has a few things to say about building a better, fairer Christchurch, and taking care of the poorer parts of town where the most vulnerable people live.
    Dr Regan Potangaroa is an Associate Professor at the School of Architecture at Unitec Auckland. He is attending this weekend’s Engineers without Borders NZ conference at Auckland University.

    Interesting how Chris Laidlaw felt bound to make positive comment about Mayor Bob Parker. It is an illustration of why it is important to have informed people that aren’t in the NZ buddy loop so we can get unbiased views to help us evaluate how things are going on down here in Aotearoa.

    • Morrissey 5.1
      17 July 2011 at 12:58 pm

      Interesting how Chris Laidlaw felt bound to make positive comment about Mayor Bob Parker.

      This is the spurious idea of “balance”. We saw it last week with Jim Mora asserting that he doesn’t want to “censor” the views of anyone—even a violent and discredited organisation like Garth McVicar’s Sensible Sentencing Trust.

      But right at the end of the programme today, Laidlaw actually did something far more craven than putting in a good word for Mayor Bob. He read a ridiculous e-mail from someone who was affronted by the popular and media backlash against the saintly Rupert Murdoch. “What about Nicky Hager? He hacked into the National Party’s computers….”

      Now, Chris Laidlaw is not stupid. He knows perfectly well that Hager did no such thing, and that he was leaked the information from a contact in Bill English’s officethe National Party. The police found that there was no evidence at all of computer-hacking. Other than witless dupes like the fellow who sent Laidlaw that e-mail, the only people who say there was hacking are John Key and Don Brash, both of them notorious liars and both of them outed in Hager’s book for their secret deals with the Brethren.

      Yet Laidlaw still read out that letter. Once again, in case you’re horrified and mystified, it’s called “balance”.

      • mik e 5.1.1
        18 July 2011 at 10:38 pm

        It was the smiling assassin who had the most to gain he would have had to wait years to get another chance by then his good looks would be gone get it right.

  6. prism 6
    17 July 2011 at 11:47 am

    This thing about press freedoms and competition and unfettered debate is what we hear argued for when talking about the dangers of government regulation.

    So what happens – one megalomaniac tries to buy up all the newspapers and achieve a monopoly.
    Then the press freedom is used to print whatever they want in a way that appeals to the most punters, no matter how it injures the subject and using whatever sleazy and unlawful means as with the phone hacking.
    ‘Unfettered debate’ has to be carried on under the shadow of this sort of power and so some things are left unsaid if unwanted by the now media empire.
    The editors can be said to be completely free to publish without control from above, if the right person is appointed, at the right price. Then the puppet strings can be completely unnecessary or unseen.
    And then there is the peculiar result of this mendacious media adopting a witch-hunting puritanical stance on sexual matters with an entirely salacious and voyeuristic zeal. They rightly say they are encouraged to do so by a public envious of those better endowed at all levels, who delight in the second-hand thrill of the ‘revelations’. When questioned one of the newspaper operatives questioned by Hugh Grant about this replied that he should have kept his in his pants. A lot of sniggers from behind. Of course the point that people’s private life should remain so, unless they do it in the street (or breach the noise controls) was bypassed in that discussion. (I think I heard the comment on today’s Mediawatch which can be played again and is also repeated at night).

    • joe90 6.1
      17 July 2011 at 12:05 pm

      NYT: The Journal Becomes Fox-ified.

      It took Rupert Murdoch only three and a half years to get there, starting with the moment he acquired the paper from the dysfunctional Bancroft family in December 2007, a purchase that was completed after he vowed to protect The Journal’s editorial integrity and agreed to a (toothless) board that was supposed to make sure he kept that promise.

      Fat chance of that. Within five months, Murdoch had fired the editor and installed his close friend Robert Thomson, fresh from a stint Fox-ifying The Times of London. The new publisher was Leslie Hinton, former boss of the division that published Murdoch’s British newspapers, including The News of the World.

  7. joe90 7
    17 July 2011 at 11:50 am

    Chin up, America.China ain’t so great.

    With 64 million of these apartments sitting empty, too expensive for most Chinese to rent – artificially inflated prices keep “value” up high, which is also helpful on the spreadsheets – they’ve created the largest property bubble in history. The tiger’s paper is wearing thin.

    There’s a you tube video at the link that shows these empty cities.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      17 July 2011 at 12:40 pm

      NB those empty cities are going to come in damn handy in 10-15 years time. I’m also betting that they are all being maintained, grass cut and windows cleaned, even as they are essentially deserted.

  8. millsy 8
    17 July 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Oh fuck

    This doesnt look good.

    What the fuck are Labour doing.

    • mickysavage 8.1
      17 July 2011 at 6:32 pm

      What the fuck are Labour doing.

      Presenting a coherent economic policy which may or may not impress those in the know but may not work on the general population.

      The numbers are coarse but it seems Labour lost 7, and the Greens gained 5.

      Not a good result but Labour/Green are still in it and need to raise their support.

      And it is too early to be taken as evidence that the population may not like the CGT.  These sorts of policies need to percolate through and the effects may take a while to appear. 

    • Tangled up in blue 8.2
      17 July 2011 at 6:58 pm

      “Labour (33 seats) doesn’t get close even after adding in the Greens (12) and the Mana Party (1).”

      Why include Mana in the equation? Mana won’t be in any Govt. any time soon.

      • Bored 8.2.1
        17 July 2011 at 7:43 pm

        Who gives a fuck? Off shore events with PIIGS and Tea Parties are going to send the world economy bust before thhe election, even if Shonkers wins he will be in the hot seat (plus his cash holdings will go up in flames as the banks fail).

    • Anne 8.3
      17 July 2011 at 7:01 pm

      millsy, it’s not Labour’s fault that Joe and Mary Bloggs are as thick as two short planks. Nor is it their fault J&M are politically ignorant, and take 6 months to figure out what the politically savvy can recognise in 24 hrs. My biggest fear is that Labour have left it too late to reveal their tax policies. I’m not convinced J&M will have it sorted by Nov. 26.

      Hoping like hell that I’m wrong!

      Ok, what I’m trying to say is a less than diplomatic version of ms at 6:32pm.
      Hell, they probably havn’t worked out what CGT stands for yet. 😀

    • Colonial Viper 8.4
      17 July 2011 at 7:01 pm

      Meh the poll numbers are exactly what you would expect from phoning houses in Epsom, Remuera, Ponsonby, Takapuna, Helensville and Davenport.

    • seeker 8.5
      17 July 2011 at 7:25 pm

      Guyon Espiner’s party political broadcast on behalf of National on Thursday night TVNZ news must have helped this poll.

      He said at the end of his report on Labour’s CGT announcement (where until then he had given the report in a reasonably soothing, unbiased way) that it had flaws and it would not be enough to woo national/swing voters away from national and that even some Labour voters would be lost because of it.
      I rang to complain of his biased presentation, and said that I hoped this was not the beginning of the bias that I noticed from Espiner last election, where I considered that Espiner and his acolytes at TVNZ working wiith John Key and Rodney Hide were almost the sole reason there was a national victory in 2008.
      I think such MSM spinners (or should I say ‘espinners’) should be outed and put in “dock’ or Murkdoch’ on the Standard everytime we see them spin for their preferred party during this election. A journalists ‘wall of shame’ where they fail to report the facts in a professionally ethical, fair,unbiased, objective manner, as they should.

      It is remarkable that this poll reflects Guyon Espiner’s very ‘prophecy’. What a capable political reporter he is!?!

      PS From election 08 coverage recognised the following as Nact Supporters ( I was not in the ‘know’ before): C&G Espiner, Duncan Garner and his side kick Scott somebody and possibly Tsai Tiffin, Barry Soper, Heather du Plessis Allen ,Therese Arseneau, Paul Holmes, Clare Trevett and most reporters at the Herald, particularly the Gallery. Wendy Petrie looks like she is joining this mob too from her tone and facial expreessions whist reporting on Labour’s Tax policy last Thursday. Although not a journalist, but now has a ‘column’ in the Herald, “philanthropist”Owen Glenn (mind you his actoid views do not lie well with said description of him).

      I don’t mind comment or opinion when I know accurately what people stand for, but when they abuse what should be a neutral position to spin their own views, thereby subtly influencing public opinion, then it becomes propaganda and should be stamped out.

      • Anne 8.5.1
        17 July 2011 at 8:05 pm

        Wendy Petrie looks like she is joining this mob too from her tone and facial expreessions whist reporting on Labour’s Tax policy last Thursday.

        Yes, I spotted that too seeker. In fact it’s happened several times in recent weeks. I spend more time at TV3 news because of it. TV3’s coverage on Thursday evening was fairer and more balanced than TV1. I commented to that effect here on Friday.

        Btw, it’s far better to write a formal letter of complaint. Phone calls don’t even reach the right people. They’re just ignored. Worked in TV many years ago and that’s what used to happen. It won’t have changed.

        • Oleolebiscuitbarrel 8.5.1.1
          17 July 2011 at 8:15 pm

          Usual response to appalling poll results from the left, I see. The people are stupid. The media is against us.

          Good luck with that.

          And you were all so happy with yourselves this morning.

          • Anne 8.5.1.1.1
            17 July 2011 at 8:18 pm

            The people are stupid

            Yeah… well, you’re probably one of them mate so can understand why you don’t like it.

            • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 8.5.1.1.1.1
              18 July 2011 at 8:19 am

              Have you just taunted me by calling me a person?

        • Anne 8.5.1.2
          17 July 2011 at 8:16 pm

          I commented to that effect here on Friday.

          ooops… no I didn’t. It was Red Alert.

        • seeker 8.5.1.3
          17 July 2011 at 8:31 pm

          Thanks Ann .I spotted your comment on Friday on Red Alert and was so pleased that someone had done just what you did. I just didn’t have time then. This type of thing really needs to be outed if we are not to be manipulated by unprofessional journalists and corporations – as Britain was for over 30years.

          • Anne 8.5.1.3.1
            17 July 2011 at 9:01 pm

            hear..hear.

            Trouble is, the political parties seem to think they have to court the media instead of standing up to them. I was glad to see Cunliffe put Espinor in his place this morning. Goff is inclined to be too polite with him.

  9. Nick 9
    17 July 2011 at 6:37 pm

    27%………………… bahahahahahahahah

  10. Salsy 10
    17 July 2011 at 6:45 pm

    The reality is, as pointed out on the Q&A – Kiwi workers will be looking at being up to 100 bucks a week off better under labour. With min wage, tax free zone, gst exemption off fruit and veg. The fact that the f*king stupid general public still dont get that John Key is selling their future, and their childrens future despite it being hammered out to them. In our household, its not through lack of sound and great labour policy, hate to say, but its Phil Goff. He is now too academic now to reach out to the working class – they arent listening. Cunliffe destroyed Espinar today – we hardly ever see politicians who have interviewers look as worried as that. He is RAZOR sharp, but warm and accessible…

  11. Tangled up in blue 11
    17 July 2011 at 6:52 pm

    Ok so Steven Joyce has “put Labour’s numbers through the Treasury calculator” and the REAL numbers show that (as reported by Farrar)

    Labour’s package will result in less tax revenue until 2024! And then when you take account of the interest on the extra borrowing, it will result in an extra $15b of borrowing between now and 2025.”

    Thanks Stevie for clearing that up!

    • Salsy 11.1
      17 July 2011 at 6:54 pm

      So I gather thats the same treasury calculator that tell us there are 170,000 jobs coming our way shortly?

    • davidc 11.2
      17 July 2011 at 7:02 pm

      Labours own numbers shower that the package became neutral in 7 years, the Nats claim its more like 12 years.
      Labour did “forget” to add in intrest costs and did “assume” they could magically save $300 mil/yr in avoidance when the oppisite is logical.
      10 years is propably close to the truth.

      • Colonial Viper 11.2.1
        17 July 2011 at 11:27 pm

        Bullshit mate, English’s numbers haven’t added up for the last 3 years, for instance where is last years promised 170,000 new jobs.

        You can’t be so gullible as to believe even more made up numbers from them.

    • mik e 11.3
      18 July 2011 at 10:18 pm

      So Steven Joyce is using Govt depts for his own political ends pity they haven,t done the figures on the loss of income from asset sales as well . When you have an organization like treasury putting out stupid figures saying their are going to be a 170,000 new jobs in three years.You know their just making up stories for their neo liberal hero idols . The facts and the history don,t support this.National has been barely able to grow 30,000 new sustained jobs in 22years in govt since 1976 so nothing changes except that they have better spin doctors and a more subservant media which Joyce uses his connections with the radio works to push key the nice guy for free at every opportunity.

  12. davidc 12
    17 July 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Micky say … “These sorts of policies need to percolate through and the effects may take a while to appear.”

    So you predict a further 5% drop next poll?

    • Penguins Pal 12.1
      17 July 2011 at 7:09 pm

      I’m supprised Mickey, CV et al are not trotting out the line it is another rogue poll (number 39 in a row).

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1
        17 July 2011 at 7:14 pm

        Come now, if JonKY and Blinglish actually believed these numbers were real, they would already have sold KiwiBank.

      • mickysavage 12.1.2
        17 July 2011 at 9:24 pm

        Who are you penguin’s pal and why should we treat anything you say with respect?

        • Secret Squirrel 12.1.2.1
          17 July 2011 at 9:35 pm

          He could be a potential Labour voter micky, but no doubt you’ll jump to a conclusion and send him/her packing if you can. Can’t risk someone sneaking on board.

          • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.1.1
            17 July 2011 at 9:39 pm

            Nah not worth converting/saving/convincing the Right. Waste of effort.

            Turning out the Left’s core support is where it is at.

  13. davidc 13
    17 July 2011 at 7:14 pm

    From DPF..

    » National – 53% (+1)
    » Labour – 27% (-7)
    » Greens – 10% (+4)
    » Maori – 3% (+1.4)
    » ACT – 3.1% (+0.6)
    » NZ First – 2.4% (+0.8)
    » United Future – 0.3%
    » Mana – 0.5% (-0.4)

  14. Penguins Pal 14
    17 July 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Trev will be on the phone to NY headquarters, Goff gone by Tuesday.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1
      17 July 2011 at 7:17 pm

      Back to the old leadership chestnut? Haha politics of envy and greed not doing it for you eh?

      • Penguins Pal 14.1.1
        17 July 2011 at 7:24 pm

        CV Goff only polled 9% and Labour 27%, so I assume 2/3rds of Labour supporters think hes not up to it. Like I said Goff gone by Tuesday.

        • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1
          17 July 2011 at 7:27 pm

          You guys really are out of ideas.

          Goff/Cunliffe/Parker is a combo up against Key/English/Brownlee that I will bet on any time mate lol

          • kriswgtn 14.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2011 at 8:04 pm

            Cunliffe was in great form against Espiner this morning on Q & A

            Espiner was getting in a real flap-made my day

            Maybe Kiwis need and deserve 3 more years of NAct

            Then there will be alot bleating

            I think these polls are rigged
            I know of Noone whom i know e ver being rung
            but then they dont live in snob areas

        • Chess Player 14.1.1.2
          17 July 2011 at 8:24 pm

          No, they will keep Goff – the plan was always to sacrifice him at this election. No matter how bad it gets they will keep him until after the election. It always takes a long time to rebuild after a party that has been controlled by a very dominant figure that polarised people, such as Muldoon or Clark – look how long it took for National to get themselves back into fully functional form following Muldoon’s demise, despite the incompetence of Labour during the 80s – it will be the same for Labour.

          • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.2.1
            17 July 2011 at 8:33 pm

            Prime Minister Phil Goff 🙂

            Man you guys are all out of ammo already, recycling old memes from Q1 haha

            • Chess Player 14.1.1.2.1.1
              17 July 2011 at 8:38 pm

              Um, I think Phil’s the one being recycled…

              • Colonial Viper …
                17 July 2011 at 8:44 pm

                I have two words for you:
                Darth Brash

                :mrgreen:

                • Chess Player …
                  17 July 2011 at 8:55 pm

                  Ha – it might surprise you to know that I consider Brash an idiot – a Polite idiot tho’, as opposed to Mrs Harawira’s little boy who is simply a Rude idiot.

                  But my point is solid regarding Goff – he is just (and justly) cannon fodder while Cunliffe and Little complete their backroom manoueveurs.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    17 July 2011 at 11:23 pm

                    Meh more recycled talking points. Meanwhile, Key is already one foot out the door, English has to be sweet talked to give the top position over to Joyce and he won’t like that one bit.

                • mik e …
                  18 July 2011 at 10:30 pm

                  MR BURNS

        • mickysavage 14.1.1.3
          17 July 2011 at 9:26 pm

          Pp bet you $1000 Goff stays until the election. do you accept?

          • J Mex 14.1.1.3.1
            17 July 2011 at 11:03 pm

            Micky, I’ll bet you $1000 that Labour is not in government after the election.

            Do you accept?

        • mik e 14.1.1.4
          18 July 2011 at 10:26 pm

          I thought someone like you would have said lunch time. But as they say a week in politics is a long time if the economy keeps dragging along the bottom Europe or the US crashes and or the All Blacks loose.Maybe a Murdoch moment happens here don,t count your chooks before they hatch they might just come home to roost just like a large Deb,t .Aye happy feet!

  15. gingercrush 15
    17 July 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Meh

    Colmar Brunton Poll August 2011.

    Leading news today Labour up FOUR POINTS. Voters have reacted positively to Capital Gains Tax with National falling dramatically five points. The greens have fallen back to 8% and Winston Peters is in great shape up 0.1%. National will be very concerned about these numbers. Just last month we reported on a dramatic 7 percentage point fall for Labour and now they’re looking better.

  16. Paul 16
    17 July 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Gingercrush:
    In your dreams.

    • gingercrush 16.1
      17 July 2011 at 10:13 pm

      Hardly my dream. Just can’t get excited about a poll that will rebalance itself next time.