Open mike 20/02/2022

103 comments on “Open mike 20/02/2022 ”

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1. Belladonna 1

   20 February 2022 at 7:27 am

   It appears that we have already (at least in Auckland) reached the point where the testing system is overwhelmed.

   Report here on some tests for close contacts not being processed. Note, this one is particularly concerning as it's of a child too young to be vaccinated.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-parents-left-confused-by-testing-messaging/7CD357TO7Z5VD4VGHSQFRDHK4Q/?c_id=1&objectid=12505866&ref=rss

   Hearing from acquaintances that people are also being turned away from testing centres because no symptoms (even though they are close contacts of a confirmed case). This is happening where the case has contacted them directly, rather than through the heavily delayed 'official' MoH system (now taking 5+ days to contact people) – so don't have an email or a CovidApp instruction to show.

   If this is the case, has mass testing had its day at the current stage of the pandemic?
2. Patricia Bremner 2

   20 February 2022 at 7:30 am

   To all those who wished our family well during the last wee while. Grant is slowly recovering after losing 8kg. Bobbie is home from hospital, she too lost 6kg. Both are recovering from covid, but because they have other issues will be under the Dr for a further 4 to 6 weeks of observations including blood tests and possibly MIR, in an effort to keep them from becoming "long haulers." Apparently up to 32% of people get repeated or lingering symptoms. Once again thanks as long distance care is lonely and difficult. Best wishes to those out there struggling with this. Fluids and rest and do not physically push 'till you sweat as you are not going to recover quickly if you do.
   • tsmithfield 2.1

     20 February 2022 at 8:09 am

     Hi Patricia,

     I am glad to hear that your family are recovering. Having read of your experiences with this, I can well understand why you would be resistant to talk of relaxing Covid restrictions.

     I am interested in finding out a bit more, so I get some more understanding of risk factors that lead to this sort of outcome.

     I have a son with Crohn’s who is immuno-compromised. So, that is a worry for us, despite previous posts I have put up that may have seemed a bit glib to you.

     From your previous posts, it looks like they did everything right in terms of vaccinations.

     I read from an earlier post of yours that it appears at least one of your family members had both Delta and then Omicron, and at least one may have had some underlying conditions?

     Were they treated with any of the anti-viral medications that are supposed to greatly reduce the risk of negative outcomes such as your family have had? It would seem a no-brainer to me to for doctors to prescribe this sort of medication almost immediately upon someone testing positive, especially if they have known risk factors.

     Again, I am glad it looks like they are on the path to recovery.

     My wife's sister had Omicron in Victoria. For her it was more like a sore throat and tiredness for a few days.

     Luckilly, she only got Omicron, not Delta as well. And she didn't have underlying risk factors, though she is in her mid 60s. She was double-vaxxed and had just come due for her booster.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1

       20 February 2022 at 9:55 am

       Hello tsmithfield. Thank you for your gracious reply.

       Yes we were very worried as our son has an inherited condition which usually turns to bowel cancer called sessile serrated adenomas. They are difficult to spot folds. He had 10 removed the week before, and also suffers with a fully pitted bowel and gallstones. So he was at risk. So I understand your concern for your son with crohns.

       Robyn has a pacemaker and diabetes. So both were in the high risk group Grant is 54 and Robyn is 75 they have lived together as loving friends for ten years helping each other through their health issues. Like your son they had huge problems which have been made much worse with the arrival of covid. Grant's yearly bowel ops have been delayed even though he is in the high risk group. His gall bladder op has been delayed nearly 3 years now. so all medical systems are under strain. They were due for their booster, which they will have when recovered and under medical supervision.

       Of interest. When first sick they were given 3 RATS each. The first two tests for both showed nothing. So Grant went for a proper nasal test. Got his notification result 36 hours later. He sent Robyn to hospital as he could not cope. The RATS are only 80% accurate with a very high viral load it appears. Further in 'phone consultations about Robyn the Covid Ward Dr at the Gold Coast Hospital kept repeating "Rest and fluids" ten minutes activity/work 2 hours rest. Electrolytes need to be replaced daily for first 4 to 5 days if sweating at all. Hope that is helpful. The person in NSW had Delta got better? returned to work and got Omicron. (Robyn had two viruses at the same time. One was unrelated, a contaminated water problem the Council was trying to fix in their area.) I don't know what treatments anybody was offered other than antibiotics for ancillary problems. We are now waiting for heart and oxygen function monitoring. The upshot is systems could be overloaded real quick. All this time most family except one dodged Delta. 14 of 30 family have had Omicron.
       • tsmithfield 2.1.1.1

         20 February 2022 at 2:02 pm

         Thank you for that insight. It must be terribly worrying for you.

         I certainly don't intend to minimise suffering such as what you and your family are going through my comments.

         My issue is more to do with the fact I think the government has been woefully unprepared for this outbreak, and that I think methods such as mandates are totally ineffective now.

         I would much rather that we had a sufficient supply of RATs that could be deployed for all who needed them across the country, as has been the situation for a long time in a lot of countries.

         And I would also rather see an available supply of anti-virals to be focussed on people with underlying conditions to keep them out of hospital in the first place. However, it looks like we won't be getting these until April, after the likely peak, and the anti-virals haven't even been through the Medsafe process yet.

         https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/19/south-auckland-gps-call-for-anti-viral-drugs-in-omicron-battle/

         I don't think the high world demand is any excuse, as was shown when we managed to boost our supply of vaccines by sourcing some surplus ones from another country. We should be paying what we need to, and using whatever channels we have to get these supplies. And I think it is inexcusable for Medsafe to still be approving these vaccines when they are approved elsewhere in the world, because we may be able to get a supply from an unconventional source, as was the case with some of the vaccines. But even if we did this, we still couldn’t use them because Medsafe hasn’t approved them yet.

         From the link above:

         "The drugs, which are still awaiting approval from drug regulator Medsafe, work by binding to enzymes to prevent the virus from growing, and are expected to reduce the numbers of people hospitalised with coronavirus."
         • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1.1.1

           20 February 2022 at 4:49 pm

           Yes Medsafe seem so insecure in spite of proven use elsewhere.
3. Belladonna 3

   20 February 2022 at 8:37 am

   This is the first hopeful sign that I've seen showing that the building industry can delivery on substantial numbers of homes in a short period of time.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127800528/simplicity-kiwisaver-to-build-10000-affordable-longterm-rentals-in-the-next-10-years-for-450k-each?cid=app-android&fbclid=IwAR1UwsVg-Oy4acL5ds7bDfkjttosgyduwRkdHKNhGkF_-i-H4imPOw3jf9M

   Of course, the proof of the pudding…. We still have to see how this translates into reality (i.e. not rat-trap concrete shoeboxes) But a plan on the table to build 10,000 long term rental apartments, in Auckland – is a huge step up.

   Sounds like KO could learn from these guys.
   • dv 3.1

     20 February 2022 at 8:55 am

     Does the price include the land cost?
     • Patricia Bremner 3.1.1

       20 February 2022 at 9:59 am

       Yes the land is included.
       • dv 3.1.1.1

         20 February 2022 at 10:05 am

         Thank you. good value!!
         • aj 3.1.1.1.1

           20 February 2022 at 11:05 am

           Sam Stubbs crossed over from the Dark Side of finance (not sure if he ever had his feet planted there)

           The deal couldn't be done without the NZ Living owners of course. May I suggest Russell Coutts does share the moral code of the people involved in this deal.
           • Ad 3.1.1.1.1.1

             20 February 2022 at 2:11 pm

             Sam Stubbs and Russell Coutts went to the same high school just a couple of years apart.
             • aj …

               20 February 2022 at 3:16 pm

               Interesting bit of trivia. I went to school with Chris Knox but can't sing or write songs

               
             • Patricia Bremner …

               20 February 2022 at 3:59 pm

               Sam Stubbs says his teacher parents instilled good values which he came back to. I taught with his Mum one year many moons ago. She was a great person, full of fun.
   • RedLogix 3.2

     20 February 2022 at 2:42 pm

     On first scan I am moderately impressed. NZ Living seem to have brought across a lot of the ideas that are very commonplace here in Australia, and have delivered both quality and affordability in most locations.

     With KS funding the new entity and staffed by a competent team and trusted contractors there is every chance these guys could deliver.

     Great teamwork is the essential foundation of our approach to development – wherever possible the same team of consultants, subcontractors and suppliers move with us across projects.

     Brewer Davidson Architects provide our master-planning and design services.
     For construction activities we prefer not to call tenders for prices, instead we choose to work with people that provide reliable performance at a fair price.
4. Adrian 4

   20 February 2022 at 9:29 am

   I have been searching for the name of the American so-called journalist associated with Bannon who disrupted Jacinda Ardern’s visit to Northland last year, does anyone know his name and more importantly where the bloody hell is he?

   I am more and more convinced that this disturbance is being manipulated and funded from offshore.
   • francesca 4.1

     20 February 2022 at 9:42 am

     Shane Chaffin?

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300444070/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-press-conference-in-northland-disrupted-by-anticovidvaccination-heckling
   • Subliminal 4.2

     20 February 2022 at 9:55 am

     An interesting segment this morning on Media Watch about the very sudden about face by people such as Mike Hosking from condemnation of their motives and organisation as people that were no better than bludgers to glowing praise of their character as ordinary NZers. There would at least appear to be a power struggle over control of the narrative that involves counterspin and will probably become the vehicle to undermine the unified NZ approach to covd.
   • joe90 4.3

     20 February 2022 at 9:59 am

     Shane Chafin.

     https://twitter.com/search?q=Shane%20Chafin&src=typed_query
5. Adrian 5

   20 February 2022 at 10:09 am

   Thanks Francesca and Joe, now where the bloody hell is he? He does appear to be the classic agent provocateur. I certainly hope Andrew Coster knows.

   This is the sort of research that the “ mainstream” media should be doing. Maybe the interest in proper journalism has run out now the $55 million has been blown on lunches and Michael Horton’s full page ads.
   • joe90 5.1

     20 February 2022 at 10:17 am

     He was in Wellington last week doing one of his crack-pot man on the ground media casts.
6. Adrian 6

   20 February 2022 at 10:32 am

   He’s a worry Joe and my apologies to David Fisher for a good story but we need more responsibility from the media at the moment not pretty stories of herb gardens and yoga sessions. We need to know how many of these mad bastards are there and working just out of sight. Andrea Vance summed it up this morning with her observation that all the wee tea parties, aura rubbings, and yoga mean nothing if you pitch your tent next to a Nazi’s under a noose with Ardern’s face in it, it just means you are complicit.
   • Matiri 6.1

     20 February 2022 at 1:08 pm

     Andrea Vance this morning on Stuff https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/127798260/the-trumpism-spilling-out-onto-parliaments-lawn-is-the-new-virus
   • mac1 6.2

     20 February 2022 at 1:37 pm

     As a family member said, "When you lie down with a dog, you get fleas."

     Fleas can be treated. But how does one treat a social sickness that denies science, collective wisdom and action, and instead embraces conspiracy, unacceptable social ideology and actions, and unproven medical and scientific beliefs?

     And on the other hand, there is an ever-present danger and consideration that every social change, especially those that make improvements in the human condition, started with minorities, and we should always beware of the 'tyranny of the majority'.

     Better now that these protesters test their opinions in public forums and get into democratic politics. Then, majorities can be persuaded and voices of the minorities heard.

     On these current protester issues I would encourage that, as MMP and its 5% threshold generally will see them not represented in parliament.

     Then they can try and join and then persuade bigger parties that will carry that 5% threshold, and have their extremist views ameliorated by the process of engaging in party politics and policy-making. NZFirst and ACT come to mind as a recent example where Peters and Seymour both seems to be courting their vote at least- maybe their involvement.

     Otherwise they will remain on the <5% fringe and wander there.
7. Robert Guyton 7

   20 February 2022 at 10:39 am

   Light relief – the Beehive from another perspective (apologies if this has already been posted).

   Iggy.

   https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellington/comments/i5b77k/iggy_pop_im_bored_filmed_in_wellington/
   • joe90 7.1

     20 February 2022 at 10:47 am

     1979 was another country.
   • weka 7.2

     20 February 2022 at 12:30 pm

     brilliant.

     Round about now would be a good time to give young men something constructive to do with their energy.
   • swordfish 7.3

     20 February 2022 at 7:07 pm

     Spotted a youthful Phil O'Brien, Roger Gascoigne & just possibly Karyn Hay.

     Tragically, still plenty of beards, mid-70s hairdos, outrageous flares & truly horrendous polar-neck jerseys in 1979. Young Iggy Osterberg must’ve been shaking his head.
8. francesca 8

   20 February 2022 at 11:05 am

   feminists have succeeded in convincing civil appeal judges that Scottish Government plans to expand the legal definition of the word ‘woman’ breaches equalities laws.

   https://www.scotsman.com/must-read/feminists-win-court-appeal-after-legal-challenge-over-the-word-woman-3575179
   • weka 8.1

     20 February 2022 at 1:16 pm

     thank god for that piece of sanity. Although it's hard to tell if it's really just a legal technicality.

     “Changing the definitions of protected characteristic, even for the purpose of achieving the gender recognition objective is not permitted and in this respect the 2018 Act is out with legislative competence.

     Basically the Scottish govt tried to increase representation of trans people on boards by extending the definition of 'woman' to include trans women who live as women. Which is an obvious conflict with the already existing rights that women have. They could instead have introduced legislation that upholds the rights of trans people specifically, but instead chose to back door a legal change of definition of 'woman'. And the three judges said you can't do that, because woman is already a protected characteristic in law. Not identity as a woman, but females.
9. The Chairman 9

   20 February 2022 at 12:20 pm

   Where is Bill? Has he been banned?
   • Robert Guyton 9.1

     20 February 2022 at 12:24 pm

     @ Ground Zero, you'd expect.
     • The Chairman 9.1.1

       20 February 2022 at 12:35 pm

       Has he given up posting here?
       • Shanreagh 9.1.1.1

         20 February 2022 at 12:45 pm

         He may be in a tent gazing at a crystal and perceiving an aura around Charlotte, Alp, Arps etc as we speak, maybe having his hair braided while hoeing in the garden while listening to the Steve Bannon Counterspin broadcasts and saying all's right with the world when the exremists are with you. Peace bro"

         I don't miss his refusal to cite and OTT opinions in the slightest.
         • Just Saying 9.1.1.1.1

           20 February 2022 at 1:42 pm

           Shanreagh, you've never met Bill. That is obvious. I can't think of anyone less likely to be found:

           ''….. gazing at a crystal and perceiving an aura around Charlotte, Alp, Arps etc as we speak, maybe having his hair braided while hoeing in the garden while listening to the Steve Bannon Counterspin broadcasts and saying all's right with the world when the exremists are with you. Peace bro"

           Which makes for an important point. It is so damn easy to make up a fantasy about someone or something you have never met. You need never even come to realise that your caricature bore none of the essential resemblance to the actual, and that it therefore rendered the whole cartoon moot.
           • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

             20 February 2022 at 1:47 pm

             this.
           • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1.2

             20 February 2022 at 2:17 pm

             It is so damn easy to make up a fantasy about someone or something you have never met.

             We form our opinions of Bill based on the words he types on this forum. How else are we to do it?
             • Shanreagh …

               20 February 2022 at 2:33 pm

               True and that is all I have to go on.

               Caricature by word or picture is an accepted form of poking the borax.

               Bill has posted some pretty off the wall opinions here. And he rarely cites so these are usually his opinions. I love a well crafted and cited argument whether for or against but opinions…well the old saying is apt. ‘opinions are like assholes every body has them’.

               So are Bill's views not as they seem…so by putting them up as he is, is he deliberately making a caricature of himself? If so then he is very clever.
             • francesca …

               20 February 2022 at 4:33 pm

               Really ?

               I have never read one thing by Bill about cystals,braids,auras, any kind of approval of the names mentioned,any hint of Counterspin or extremism .All projection by Shanreagh on Bill.
               • Shanreagh …

                 20 February 2022 at 6:46 pm

                 Sounds like you have not been following the ebb and flow here on TS about who is in control of the protestors. Hippies or hard right. The role of extremism in the media ie Counterspin is providing the on ground chatter that cannot be missed by anyone who is there. The hippies are doing the gardens etc etc.

                 The auras are reference to the hippies, there have been pics on the media of hair braiding being done. The names mentioned are some of the ones who have been given a platform by Counterspin during the protest.

                 I just made up a fantasy of what has been reported and popped Bill in there.

                 I imagined him taking it all in uncritically & favourably.

                 Why did you thought Bill had to have mentioned auras, braiding etc for satire to work?
                 • francesca …

                   20 February 2022 at 7:28 pm

                   Yep, your fantasy entirely popped Bill in there

                   It adds nothing and slurs an author
                   • weka …

                     20 February 2022 at 8:22 pm

                     I agree. Bill is still an author here, making shit up about him as character assassination stops now. Stick to the politics.
                   • Shanreagh …

                     21 February 2022 at 8:18 am

                     Yes I did and I am stopping now……
         • Patricia Bremner 9.1.1.1.2

           20 February 2022 at 4:35 pm

           No but great vision.
       • Nic the NZer 9.1.1.2

         20 February 2022 at 12:55 pm

         My reading of the situation is he has merely found a drinking buddy somewhere.

         What's the question about? Are your bad takes wearing a bit thin even for your own taste?
         • The Chairman 9.1.1.2.1

           20 February 2022 at 1:11 pm

           What's the question about?

           Bill.

           He helped break up the echo-chamber here while creating debate by providing an alternative view. Hence, is presence is missed. Thus, I was wondering what happened to him posting here.

           A good example of the echo-chamber here at the moment is the 'Why the Wellington protestors are wrong' thread.
           • gsays 9.1.1.2.1.1

             20 February 2022 at 1:28 pm

             If only TS had a subscription, then the outraged could cancel it in protest to the opinions they didn't approve of.
             • The Chairman …

               20 February 2022 at 1:34 pm

               
           • Nic the NZer 9.1.1.2.1.2

             20 February 2022 at 1:38 pm

             As he mentioned, prior to the vaccine pass being enforced at his local he had been helping break up the echo-chamber there instead.

             If you want him back you could try reporting some of the pubs in his area for any local breaches of covid health checks. He will probably respond well to that (well, unless he finds out who did it).
           • Muttonbird 9.1.1.2.1.3

             20 February 2022 at 2:18 pm

             Relax. Ad has stepped up to the plate.
           • Shanreagh 9.1.1.2.1.4

             20 February 2022 at 2:46 pm

             Goodness that is profound and it hits the right outraged notes

             especially

             'echo chamber'

             There should be saying to signal that an argument bereft of substance is being advanced when posters use the phrase 'echo chamber' to dismiss a whole swathe of opinions they disgaree with even though within that swathe there are clearly differentiated and nuanced views.

             like Godwins law.

             From

             https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180416-the-myth-of-the-online-echo-chamber

             'Using a survey of 2,000 British adults, she found that the majority of people already reach outside their political comfort zone: they actively seek out additional sources that convey diverse views that do not match with their preconceptions.'
           • Patricia Bremner 9.1.1.2.1.5

             20 February 2022 at 4:18 pm

             Oh lol You want an opinion you can agree with? Have you tried Kiwi Blog?
             • Patricia Bremner …

               20 February 2022 at 4:37 pm

               This was to Chairman
             • The Chairman …

               20 February 2022 at 6:46 pm

               You want an opinion you can agree with?

               I enjoy debate and hearing the perspectives of others.
10. Blade 10

    20 February 2022 at 2:18 pm

    Who would want to be an employer nowdays, eh?

    Best to leave the little wastrels in the care of Winz… or whatever they are now called.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo0KjdDJr1c
    • Nic the NZer 10.1

      20 February 2022 at 3:51 pm

      I think they prefer young people to wastrels these days. Your welcome.
      • Blade 10.1.1

        20 February 2022 at 4:04 pm

        I think you are right…but having experienced this above clip in reality, the exaggeration is only slight. The clip only hints at the nastiness that follows. So I have a different view on what these youngins should be called.

        Remember Chlöe Swarbrick's witty remark in the chamber about ''Boomers.''

        Btw – that young thing in the clip is a fresh drone off the production line called our education system.

        That's good news for you ( assuming you are a Leftie), but bad news for the Right who may struggle for relevance as the years roll on.
        • Nic the NZer 10.1.1.1

          20 February 2022 at 4:20 pm

          "Btw – that young thing in the clip is a fresh drone off the production line called our education system."

          You do realize that's a skit right?
          • Blade 10.1.1.1.1

            20 February 2022 at 5:46 pm

            You do realize that's a skit right?

            No, I thought it was real.

            I have just learnt the actors may not be Kiwis. I wonder if that matters?
            • Nic the NZer 10.1.1.1.1.1

              20 February 2022 at 6:13 pm

              Oh, I see what your saying now. Yes the acting was quite convincing and she appeared to understand her role in the skit quite well, playing it very convincingly in character. Ms 'fresh drone' appears to be a top graduate.
11. Blade 11

    20 February 2022 at 2:37 pm

    Another of my musings MAY come to pass.

    ''11-What is it going to cost taxpayers to clean up after protesters. Will the grounds around parliament be reconfigured to stop large scale protests in future?''

    https://thestandard.org.nz/convoy-protest-day-seven/#comment-1862808 ( post 35)

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300521107/plans-to-erect-parliamentary-fence-as-protest-lingers
    • Barfly 11.1

      20 February 2022 at 3:29 pm

      You should predict that the sun will rise tomorrow – more low hanging fruit for you.
      • Blade 11.1.1

        20 February 2022 at 3:37 pm

        Yep – it hurts doesn't it. And sometimes the sun doesn't shine the next day

        Get back on the turps, Barfly. Have one for the road.

        Musings aren’t predictions.
        • Patricia Bremner 11.1.1.1

          20 February 2022 at 4:22 pm

          You can give it Chairman but you can't take it. Drink a cup of your own nasty bile.

          There is a nasty bod Barfly. You let them know something and they use it as a weapon.. oh but they are “Good people!!”
          Next he’ll be saying “Just joking” or some other wet shite.
          • Blade 11.1.1.1.1

            20 February 2022 at 5:47 pm

            Quite…whatever it is you are posting. Is it your shopping list?
12. joe90 12

    20 February 2022 at 4:55 pm

    But but, say the maskholes..

    https://twitter.com/CZEdwards/status/1495156787493834753
13. SPC 13

    20 February 2022 at 5:05 pm

    Germany has moved to vaccinate using the aspiration method.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVXA9posslo
14. joe90 14

    20 February 2022 at 6:01 pm

    More than a few missing out on the opportunity to learn to live with it.

    Since Nov. 24, when South Africa first reported the omicron variant to the World Health Organization, the United States has confirmed more than 30,163,600 new infections and more than 154,750 new deaths. (While the U.S. did not initially identify any omicron cases within its borders until Dec. 1, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has since confirmed that the variant was in the country at least a week earlier.)

    By comparison, from Aug. 1 to Oct. 31, a similar duration covering the worst of the delta surge in the United States, the country confirmed 10,917,590 new infections and 132,616 new deaths.

    That makes the official case count about 176% higher during the omicron wave than in the equivalent-length delta period. (The true case count is higher still, because, more so than during the delta wave, many people have been using at-home tests whose results are not included in government statistics.) The death toll during the omicron wave is about 17% higher so far than the death toll in the delta wave.

    https://archive.li/Va4Ve (Seattle Times)
15. francesca 15

    20 February 2022 at 6:11 pm

    Thanks SPC , good to see.
16. Blade 16

    20 February 2022 at 6:13 pm

    The Police Commissioner was looking like crap warmed up on TV news tonight. This guy is under pressure.

    Would the government allow him to resign?
    • The Chairman 16.1

      20 February 2022 at 7:40 pm

      This guy is under pressure.

      Lets hope he keeps a cool head.

      If he is replaced, one would expect the police will be lead by one who will go hard.

      And I suspect the fallout from that will cause far more trouble for this country going forward than the current protest.
      • Blade 16.1.1

        20 February 2022 at 8:56 pm

        ''And I suspect the fallout from that will cause far more trouble for this country going forward than the current protest.''

        That is probably true. A little like long Covid,

        But I believe Costa resigning would also cause a complete collapse of trust in the police and government. And cause recriminations from business and the public. Maybe even court cases.

        Hence, I'm wondering IF the government could forstall Costa resigning if he decided on that course of action, for the sake of nation security?
    • Dennis Frank 16.2

      20 February 2022 at 8:18 pm

      If you're talking about a clip from the interview with Jack Tame then I disagree. Until I saw that this morning I shared your negative view of him. However if negotiating a solution fails, he'll have to be decisive.

      I know you just hanker for the old action-man stance & I'm sympathetic re that. If the thug element in the protest decides to ditch the others & make a lunge for the entrance to the building the cop commanding those present at the time will have to be action-man to stop them. Failure there would reflect on Coster.

      No reason for him to resign yet. No political leader has expressed no confidence in him personally, right? Go figure.
      • Blade 16.2.1

        20 February 2022 at 9:29 pm

        ''I know you just hanker for the old action-man stance .''

        For the first few days of the protest, yes, I wanted them dealt with, action-man style ( geez, you have a way with words), because extrapolating events from protests overseas gave me a good indication of what might happen here. That said, I honestly didn't expect it to morph into what we have now.

        As I've calmed down a bit, I don't know what to think. The Chairman makes a good point, re long term affects for our country if police lose their heads and start to act. Now, I'm not sure how I would act if I was Costa. I know how I would clear the protesters though.

        ''No reason for him to resign yet. No political leader has expressed no confidence in him personally, right? Go figure.''

        Now that's where you should be careful. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Dave and Luxon have been running their mouths again. Jacinda, the head of our nation, is absent as usual. Costa is the first patsy off the rank IF the government accepted his resignation.

        As a mental exercise I have just finished my plan for removing protesters and their vehicles . If I'm going to diss Costa, I must be able show how I could do better.

        For example, I wouldn't be towing vehicles…I would be using forklifts with extended forks working in an endless loop. One forklift, one vehicle, all the way back to the transporter, or free space.
        • Drowsy M. Kram 16.2.1.1

          20 February 2022 at 9:58 pm

          Why haven't authorities deployed an infrasound cannon (setting 1 only, of course – must think of the children) – still the most entertaining idea you've shared here imo
          
          • Blade 16.2.1.1.1

            20 February 2022 at 10:08 pm

            Troll.

            Whoops, I’m being a little judgemental.

            Yes, you are a troll. But you should have a chance to tell us how you would clear the protesters?
            • Blade 16.2.1.1.1.1

              20 February 2022 at 10:19 pm

              Drowsy!! Are you awake.?
            • Drowsy M. Kram 16.2.1.1.1.2

              20 February 2022 at 10:19 pm

              Next I [Blade] would quietly turn on a infrasound canon. All protesters would be gone quickly. To stay risks a complete mental breakdown or death.

              Not grokking your hostility – after all using an "infrasound canon" was your idea. Having second thoughts?

              Btw, you’ve made over 80 comments on The Standard since we last corresponded. What’s your definition of this term “troll” that you are so free with?

              .https://thestandard.org.nz/convoy-protest-19-2-22/#comment-1865139

              .https://thestandard.org.nz/why-havent-the-police-acted/#comment-1864544

              .https://thestandard.org.nz/convoy-protest-16-2-22/#comment-1863695

              .https://thestandard.org.nz/freakin-useless/#comment-1860707
              • Blade …

                20 February 2022 at 10:42 pm

                Of course not- here, buy yourself one.

                Oh, by the way, infra sound won't move cars. Maybe just rattle them.

                Not my fault the cops haven't acquire a unit

                The link provided is where I purchased my base model .

                On advice, I did modification to improve my base model using parts from a security contractor. That's information is something I would never divulge to you. I wouldn't trust you with such technology.

                https://www.amazing1.com/ultrasonics.html
                • Drowsy M. Kram …

                  21 February 2022 at 12:11 am

                  I wouldn’t trust you with such technology.

                  Wouldn’t be caught dead using such ‘technology’.

                  Fascinating link from amazing1.com. No mention of "infrasound" or equipment that generates same – maybe it’s outside the region of the electromagnetic spectrum that my eyes can perceive – and a site search "did not match any products". Are you sure that the speaker you pointed at those unsuspecting ferals was part of an "infrasound canon"?

                  Reckon you've been pranked, but far be it from me to ruin a feel-bad vibe.

                  You wouldn't have a clue what infrasound is. – Blade

                  https://www.boomlive.in/world/fake-news-covid-19-anti-lockdown-protest-melbourne-sonic-weapon-15909
                  • Blade …

                    21 February 2022 at 12:35 am

                    Semantics – just a different name for basically the same thing. I have always used the term infrasound.

                    Quote:

                    ''Ultrasound Pain Field Guns and Sonic Shock Wave Generators. These products are not to be confused with some of the higher-powered devices costing thousands of dollars such as L-rad and other government units used in dangerous uncontrollable riots, piracy and large-scale operations and only available to law enforcement

                    Our Ultrasound Pain Field Guns and Sonic Shock Wave Generators Can Discourage and Intimidate Intruders, Drive Out Animal Pests, And Train Dogs to Stop Barking. They Are Readily Available to The Public and Do Not Require Special Licensing or Other Red Tape!''

                    ''You wouldn't have a clue what infrasound is. – Blade''

                    The bottom line – I have such a device. You have nothing. But flounder around searching the net in hope of catching me out.

                    Oh, look, I found a fake photo.

                    So, I take it you won't be buying a device? You should if you are that interested in proving me wrong.

                    You are simply trolling.
                    • Drowsy M. Kram …

                      21 February 2022 at 12:49 am

                      Blade, despite introducing the term, you simply didn't know what infrasound is, while suggesting that others didn't have a clue.

                      Apparently this is a big deal for you, but it's honestly no biggie to me – I make mistakes every day.

                      You call it ‘trolling’, I call it ‘educating’ – for free!
              • Blade …

                20 February 2022 at 10:52 pm

                "Btw, you’ve made over 80 comments on The Standard since we last corresponded. What’s your definition of this term “troll” that you are so free with?"

                My definition is vacuous comments that are posted in response to my comments. You will notice I try and respond in a respectful manner to those who take the effort to respond with pertinent points and views – and not one line trolling.

                I call them out like I should.

                Still waiting on your plan to clear protesters?
                • Blade …

                  20 February 2022 at 11:22 pm

                  This is considered a quickie tow job. But it still has its problems. Notice the forklift principle on a smaller scale? The problem is I'm guessing no tow truck will have that much room to move on a Wellington street.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADMVzbqe6PQ
                • Drowsy M. Kram …

                  21 February 2022 at 12:30 am

                  May not pan out this way, but my preference is to let the peaceful protesters be, while minimising the disruption to residents.

                  In a few months time, when NZ is on the other side of our Omicron wave, and the consensus opinion of public health experts is that our Government can begin to ease vaccine mandates (for now), the police and/or army can mop up any truly distasteful remnants.

                  Authorities should have harvested plenty of evidence by then.
                  • Blade …

                    21 February 2022 at 12:42 am

                    Well, that's what I believe most people would want to happen.

                    But I'm talking about a plan to move vehicles if the police DECIDE action is required now.
                    • Drowsy M. Kram …

                      21 February 2022 at 1:02 am

                      Happy to leave that hypothetical to experts such as your good self.
                      
          • Robert Guyton 16.2.1.1.2

            20 February 2022 at 10:12 pm

            "Half of them are there just because its more exciting than being at home and everything is free."
        • Blade 16.2.1.2

          20 February 2022 at 10:17 pm

          Quotes:

          ''As the occupation grows and strengthens, Police Commissioner Andrew Coster is now facing calls for his resignation.''

          ''Commentators call him “Cuddles Coster”. Simon Bridges publicly accused him of being a “wokester”. And frontline officers have nicknamed him The Lantern (very bright but needs carrying).''

          That last sentence confirms the calls and texts to talkback from SUPPOSED police officers and their families.

          Of course, I took some stick for that from trolls on this site for quoting those callers.

          Crikey, I love this gig. Leties are so much fun.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300521985/occupation-day-13-police-instructed-to-take-zerotolerance-approach-to-abuse-intimidation-or-violence-against-public
          • Nic the NZer 16.2.1.2.1

            20 February 2022 at 11:03 pm

            We can see from the various name calling the frontline officers are clearly quite sharp. Want to guess their moniker for you before you put the new police forklifts and air-cannons policies into practice?
            • Blade 16.2.1.2.1.1

              20 February 2022 at 11:11 pm

              Air-cannons?

              Police forklifts?

              Sock it to me anyway.

              BTW- do you have a problem with using forklifts. If so, would you like to expand on what could be possible problems with such an approach?

              You know…some comments with substance.
              • Nic the NZer …

                20 February 2022 at 11:51 pm

                Seems to require two trucks. One for the car and one for the forklift (which don't move that fast, especially when balancing a finely balanced heavy weight). Generally the idea is not to damage the vehicles being towed, because then the Police need to justify the property damage inflicted.

                And if it goes wrong and they drop the car your going to be making the news with your innovation.

                Think you will definitely be in line to be Commissioner Hammer (not the sharpest tool).
                • Blade …

                  21 February 2022 at 12:22 am

                  ''Seems to require two trucks. One for the car and one for the forklift. ''

                  That's just a matter of perception. Let's leave that to one side.

                  ''(which don't move that fast, especially when balancing a finely balanced heavy weight).''

                  Now, I've thought about that, and damage is possible, if the sills of the car or van don't take the load. However, given police will be working under a time constraint( depending on violence), an onsite Motor Assessor will inspect each vehicles and compensation will be paid. I don't envisage a large amount of money. Safety of operators must come first.

                  Speed of forklifts in this situation is not important, because even a slow speed is way faster than having tow trucks drive in and manoeuvre.

                  Stability of load is an issue. But easily overcome I believe.

                  Given forklifts won't be used, I will be interested to see how things go with tow trucks. Perhaps they may handle the job with ease. ?

                  ''Think you will definitely be in line to be Commissioner Hammer (not the sharpest tool).''

                  Commissioner Nic The Witless ( tries hard: fails much).
          • mac1 16.2.1.2.2

            20 February 2022 at 11:24 pm

            I once was a 'Leaftie', now I'm a 'Letie"! Well, we do let you have your fun; and you're welcome to it.

            By the way, 'lantern' is quite clever. They might find out he has a short wick, though.

            In cricket they have a nickname for very poor batsmen. "Ferrets". They're the ones who go in after the rabbits.

            Considering some of the rubbish spouted by those who have gone down the social media rabbit holes, there are many who might justify the nickname 'ferret'.
            • Blade 16.2.1.2.2.1

              20 February 2022 at 11:30 pm

              ''I once was a 'Leaftie', now I'm a 'Letie"! Well, we do let you have your fun; and you're welcome to it.''

              I'm sure you do. I believe you. I just prefer Leftie to Lefty. Sometimes I spell things wrong, but hey, I don't have to pull people up on grammar because I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.
        • solkta 16.2.1.3

          20 February 2022 at 10:25 pm

          *Coster
          • Blade 16.2.1.3.1

            20 February 2022 at 10:44 pm

            Very good – apple of the a day.
            • mac1 16.2.1.3.1.1

              20 February 2022 at 10:52 pm

              Very good, Blade, especially for one who is not a costermonger…….
              • Drowsy M. Kram …

                21 February 2022 at 2:30 am

                "Costermonger" – so clever mac1 – I learn something every night.
17. Belladonna 17

    20 February 2022 at 6:43 pm

    Not really interested in Gottcha journalism.
    But, at the first reading, this looks like a Minister seriously out of her depth in the detail of the legislation that she's shepherding through parliament.

    Carmel Seuploni on the Oranga Tamariki Oversight Bill – which is a piece of legislation sorely needed, and which has been very heavily criticized by a wide range of interested parties (most of whom are firmly on the left spectrum of the political agenda).

    The journalist Aaron Smale is anything but a right wing apologist – he's been actively involved in reporting on our shameful past in a range of state care services.

    Having navigated his way past the press secretary, and with Sepuloni knowing he wanted to talk about that Bill in particular, you would expect her to have the details, and arguments at her fingertips.

    Finally, hanging up on a journalist is a seriously bad look for a government trying to portray themselves as open and transparent (or, ATM, even as competent). It looks as though she panicked, and didn't even do the safe 'I'll get back to you on that one, Aaron – response' so beloved of senior ministers.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300520836/questions-left-hanging-as-minister-for-social-development-carmel-sepuloni-hangs-up
18. Stephen D 18

    20 February 2022 at 6:46 pm

    In 2020, Michael Keaton stared in a movie called Worth. It was about how you put the value on human life. In this case following 9/11.

    I do wonder if the government naysayers have done the maths seeing as how they want to open our borders.

    How much is a human life worth?
    • Belladonna 18.1

      20 February 2022 at 6:55 pm

      Based on the appalling incidence of child abuse and murder in NZ – the answer appears to be not very much.
19. Chris T 19

    20 February 2022 at 11:47 pm

    It is an interesting conundrum actually.

    Can't help thinking the current police commissioner is a touchy feely, not cause hassle lets all cuddle teddies dude.

    But you can't really blame the geezer, as if they go in hard core he will be lambasted.

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