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Freakin useless

Written By: - Date published: 2:58 pm, February 10th, 2022 - 114 comments
Categories: covid-19, national, same old national - Tags:

You would think that a Member of Parliament would know what the Wellington Protest was all about.

But it appears not.  Maureen Pugh is not aware that the Wellington protest has a decidedly anti vaccination stance and posted something on facebook supporting the protestors until it was taken down quickly.

From Stuff:

National MP Maureen Pugh has deleted a Facebook post where she thanked the Convoy protest movement currently camping outside Parliament.

Pugh originally edited the post to remove the mention of the protest before deleting it entirely.

She told Stuff that when she made the reference she did not realise many of the protesters were against Covid-19 vaccination.

The Convoy 2022 protests are ostensibly focused on the vaccine mandates, but many signs and social media posts suggest many in the crowd are explicitly against the vaccine itself.

She was not enthusiastic about vaccinations last year.  From the ODT in September last year:

National Party list MP Maureen Pugh says she is going to be talking to a doctor and she looks to schedule her first Covid vaccination.

The West Coast-based MP is one of only three out of 120 MPs still not vaccinated.

Mrs Pugh said today she was not anti-vax, and her children and her had been fully vaccinated against other things.

Having missed out on seeing her grandchildren in Queensland for the past two years, she said the vaccine was a way of getting to see them.

She had intended getting vaccinated in Wellington, but that was disrupted by lockdown.

I had thought that Harete Hipango would be the next National MP to put their foot into it.  Pugh was second on the list however.

114 comments on “Freakin useless ”

  1. Andy 1

    I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I have significant concerns about mRNA, and as such have delayed any uptake.

    Anyone should be able to hold a view on this. It's bollox if you censor an MP over this

    • mickysavage 1.1

      You should take that up with the National Party. It looks like they are the entity that did the censorship.

      • Andy 1.1.1

        OK fair point I didn't really read that far. But my overall point remains.

        • Tricledrown 1.1.1.1

          That you like pugh are willfully ignorant excuses that don't add up.

          Because of lockdown I couldn't ,vaccine clinics were all open.

        • roy cartland 1.1.1.2

          … didn't read…

          And therein lies the whole damn problem. Yourself, Pugh, the protestors…

        • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.1.3

          Only Pfizer and Moderna use Messenger RNA

          Whats the bet your 'research' finds a reason not to have other types like Novavax

          • Andy 1.1.1.3.1

            Novavax has got provisional approval from Medsafe

            Does that mean it is not currently available to the public?

            • georgecom 1.1.1.3.1.1

              AstraZeneca has been since November. a bit of a hoop to jump through to get it, which in my opinion is not necessary and not helpful, but it's available and it safe and effective

        • Nic181 1.1.1.4

          Aaah the deadly mRNA! Do you know that mRNA operates in every cell of your body in the protein making process! In the Pfizer vaccine, the amino acid sequence making up the Covid “spike protein,” has been identified. The mRNA code needed to manufacture that in our cell machinery, has been produced as a vaccine. The result? The vaccine results in the Covid specific “spike protein” being produced at the vaccine site. This acts as an antigen for antibody production. Et Voila! We attain immunity to a hostile virus before we are exposed to it. It is VERY smart, safe science. Go get vaccinated!!!!!

    • McFlock 1.2

      Who's censoring?

      Let the stupid ring loud and wide, I say. Can only help the government. They ain't great, but they're better than the nats.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 1.3

      A typical mammalian cell contains 10–30 pg total RNA [let's say 20 pg]

      mRNA accounts for 1–5% of the total cellular RNA [let's say 2%]

      https://www.qiagen.com/nz/resources/faq?id=06a192c2-e72d-42e8-9b40-3171e1eb4cb8&lang=en

      There are ~40 trillion mammalian cells in the human body, so each human might contain 16 grams (give or take) of mRNA which is being synthesised and degraded (turned over) all the time. One jab of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (Comirnaty) contains 30 micrograms of mRNA, so when a dose of the Pfizer vaccine is injected the total mRNA in a body increases by (back of the envelope) ~0.0002% [(0.00003 g / 16 g) x 100].

      What is mRNA? The messenger molecule that’s been in every living cell for billions of years is the key ingredient in some COVID-19 vaccines
      One surprising star of the coronavirus pandemic response has been the molecule called mRNA. It’s the key ingredient in the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines. But mRNA itself is not a new invention from the lab. It evolved billions of years ago and is naturally found in every cell in your body. Scientists think RNA originated in the earliest life forms, even before DNA existed.

  2. swordfish 2

    I'm thinking of heading down to Parliament grounds now & doing the following little display in the central grass area among the protesters:

    • Shanreagh 2.1

      Let me come with you with a couple of big plastic bags for the rubbish that I could use to support your moves like a matador and do a good deed at the same time. They may all disperse from the shock of it. smiley

      Make sure you bring along your selfie stick so we can say ‘cheese’ in front of those in the lines as the demo tourists have been doing all afternoon.

      Some of the music is OK though how many times do we sing the National Anthem?

      I have been watching quite a bit and now want someone to tell me who the leaders are I have been following, on phones to each other, cruising up and down. One with a beret and one with bleached blond hair. Some of the leaders have gone already according to https://twitter.com/Te_Taipo/status/1491511816781926404

      • Shanreagh 2.1.1

        Oh they have the nice lady back collecting rubbish, I'll join her.

        Sounds like they are doing thank yous…..hope they are going willingly.

    • higherstandard 2.2

      The new season of afterlife is gold.

      • gsays 2.2.1

        For someone who hits 'peak Gervais' quickly, I have to agree.

        Did a demi-binge watching 3 episodes last night.

        Well written and your intelligence isn't insulted.

  3. Goodness MS and she will have found a new friend she did not know she had in Harete!

    She makes mistakes like these and now so does MP (and Andy). Clearly they do not know that the Nats, through Luxon, are not supporting the protest as Nats are pro vax and pro mandate, for now.

    Andy if you have concerns just make an appt to get the Novavax vaccine. It does not use the the mRNA method. There are alternatives.

    I think very little of MPs of any party not being on the side of health during a pandemic.

    • Andy 3.1

      Thanks for your advice. I'm looking at Novavax. But then the pandemic may have finished and it becomes moot. Then I can crawl out of my cave again 🙂

      • Shanreagh 3.1.1

        We still have Omicron to really hit us. Get it done quickly so it can start protecting you while we all wait.

        I’m vaxxed and boosted and still living in a bit of a lockdown mode ie restricting going out etc

      • ghostwhowalksnz 3.1.3

        Here goes the anti vaxxer specious explanations again.

        Im 'looking at' Novavax.

        looking but not looking…. whats really really bizzare is he/she doesnt think they are anti vaxx.

        Thats of course a typical covid denier stance as if they take any covid vaccine they have accepted in their head its real problem.

        • McFlock 3.1.3.1

          I was "looking at" a porsche in the sales yard a few months back. lols

        • felix 3.1.3.2

          Are you "anti-food" if you don't eat cheese with every meal?

          Are you "anti-music" if you don't listen to NWA every morning?

          If not, why not?

          • ghostwhowalksnz 3.1.3.2.1

            Occams razor

            They arent anti vaxx but but..

            1)Its experimental

            2)Its not really a vaccine its a biological agent

            3)Ive done my research and …

            4)'Religious' reasons…

        • Andy 3.1.3.3

          Sweden has declared that the pandemic is over.

          The hysteria over Covid has ended in many countries (Alberta is also dropping all mandates from next Sunday)

          Omicron seems to be resistant to the Vx, so I don't really see any hurry to take one.

          Also, if I delay until the start of the winter, then I will be better served. All the early adopters who are triple vaxxed/boosted now will be unvaccinated come June (due to the waning effect of the jab) , and there are no plans for any more boosters.

        • Andy 3.1.3.4

          Is Novavax available to the public yet? During my "looking" today I see it has received provisional approval.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.4

        Andy begin your course. 300 cases yesterday… 1000 in a few days then 3000 then…? You have 'till mid March according to the virologists to get some protection from serious disease. Cheers.

        • Andy 3.1.4.1

          Is Novavax available to the public yet?

          • lprent 3.1.4.1.1

            Is Novavax available to the public yet?

            sigh Always annoying dealing with lazy fools who are apparently incapable of incapable of doing basic searches.

            For your education (not that it is likely to penetrate your level of blockhead) the query was “novavax nz”

            COVID-19: Purchasing the vaccines

            Novavax
            An agreement has been made with Novavax to purchase 10.72 million doses of a COVID-19 vaccine. Novavax is a two-dose protein subunit vaccine.

            Novavax (Nuvaxovid) has been provisionally approved by New Zealand medicines regulator Medsafe for adults 18 years and over.

            Provisional approval does not mean that we have committed to using Novavax in New Zealand yet. Medsafe’s provisional approval is the first step, with further consideration required by Cabinet on whether to use this vaccine.

            04 February 2022: “Novavax COVID-19 vaccine receives provisional approval

            Approval status of COVID-19 vaccines applications received by Medsafe

            Gazette notice which is required to be published before it could be used for general usage in NZ.
            Still come are (also required as I remember it)

            Data sheet to be published shortly
            Consumer Medicine Information to be published shortly
            Risk Management Plan to be published shortly

            The reason why this is all late is because of something really really basic. Checking product issues. Something that you would appear to be concerned about (persoanlly I’m more concerned about that you can’t find this ifo yourself).

            Covid-19: Medsafe decision on Novavax vaccine due in two weeks Jan 25 2022.

            Medsafe will in about two weeks have made its formal, independent assessment of the Novavax Covid-19 vaccine application for use as a primary Covid-19 vaccine, not a booster dose, Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield said in the Beehive on Tuesday.

            “If it’s approved, we will get advice on the decision to use and what role it would play in the programme. They haven’t applied for it as a booster so it would be as a primary course,” he said.

            “I know there is interest amongst a group in the population in Novavax and so we would be putting advice up to Cabinet about whether or not to include it in part of the programme at this point.”

            Bloomfield said another tranche of data had been sent to Medsafe. The regulator was waiting for a significant amount of additional data, due earlier this month, to help it decide whether to approve the vaccine.

            and

            Medsafe said its final vaccine assessment was delayed when Novavax prioritised satisfying the Australian regulators first.

            Vaccine expert Helen Petousis-Harris, who has advised the WHO on vaccinations, said the problems arose when Novavax scaled up vaccine production at pace. It has now had to prove the problems have been solved.

            “It all went swimmingly well until they went to upscale production…That is what stalled them.”

            She said it was still “quite possible” Novavax would be included as an option in the booster roll-out here.

            Nov 04 2021 “Covid-19: Novavax applies to Medsafe for vaccine use in New Zealand

            So looking back the main delay in it arriving here has been because Noravax didn’t apply for it to come into NZ until November. They then provided details on their trials and production systems.

            Noravax then prioritised satisfying the Aussie regulators rather than the New Zealand ones.

            I suggest that you direct any complaints to Noravax. If they hadn’t fucked around, then we may have the requirements for cabinet to decide to release in NZ.

            Since the original reason for bringing it here was to have an alternate for the booster campaign and we’re nearing 50% on that, I’d say that Noravax is just about as slow as you appear to be.

            • Andy 3.1.4.1.1.1

              Thanks for clarifying that Novavax is not available as I stated.

              • lprent

                Yeah sure. It isn't available because Noravax have been late on everything to do with this vaccine release.

                They were late on their development, late on their trials, late asking Medsafe to look at it, late trying to scale production, late providing requested information.

                About the only thing that hasn't been late about it is our government. They managed to get the primary approval through in 3 months from November 4th to Feb 4th.

                The question now for the caninet and MoH is if and how many doses do they need of this untested in NZ vaccine?

                The original intent for this vaccine was to be a booster – but we’re half-way through that campaign. Trying to push that in would just disrupt that campaign. The laggards at Noravax screwed that up.

                We might need a few thousand doses for the people like you who don't understand the science of mRNA and are terrified of it affecting DNA. Personally I don’t think that adding it to the public rollout is justified at this time.

                I think you should actually pay for doses of this vaccine. At least then we'll get some cost recovery from Noravax's laggardly performance. Make it a nominal fee for those who have DHB support for actual medical reasons for not using Pfizer, rather than a simple high degree of fearful stupidity.

                • Andy

                  Israel is on its fourth jab and they have more people in hospital with CV that at any time during the pandemic, so it ain't looking good for your magic science juice my friend

                  • lprent

                    And you're expecting better from Noravax?

                    As well as being very late it was targeted at pre-delta versions of the covid-19 because their development process was too slow. Their main trials were largely finished a year ago, and didn't have particularly interesting results then. Their results looked worse than Pfizer/Biotech, AstraZeneca, vaccines released into operation a year earlier.

                    Now that Nuvaxoid has finally been released, it looks like its main benefit over other vaccines is that it is easier to store. Which could be useful if it has to stay on the shelves any longer. Not to mention that their production techniques with moth cells look like something designed to produce unexpected side-effects.

                    But vaccines have very little to do with magic. They have a lot more to do with timeliness, statistics, and generations of refinement.

                    Their role is pretty simple. It is to train your immune system how to recognise and defeat a previously unknown virus of bacterium before the first encounter it.
                    The only magic is is that we have immune systems developed by a long evolutionary series of surviving previous ancestral mistakes that can be pre-trained like that.

                    That is a two-edged sword. Probably as many people die of an over-reactive trigger-happy immune system after contracting a disease as actually succumb to a disease. Those flushed response, rampant over heating cell killing and other responses of the immune system are in themselves usually just as dangerous as the actual effects of the disease.

                    Vaccines are a useful way to trigger a training immune response without having quite the same risks from the immune system as actually contracting the disease.

                    Vaccines aren't a magic bullet that your obvious ignorance of them seems to think. They are tool to trigger your immune system. Something that can be measured and tested.

                    Perhaps you should go and study them a little more closely than being just another dumbarse fashionista touting your current buzzword brand name.

                    It'd make it easier to discuss the topic rationally with you.

                    • Blazer

                      'Not to mention that their production techniques with moth cells look like something designed to produce unexpected side-effects.'

                      I take it this is just an opinion of yours.

                      Novavax has had manufacturing capacity delays ,no doubt about that.

                      Approvals have been snail pace too.

                      The Novavax vaccine uses a version of the spike protein made in the lab. The spike proteins are assembled into tiny particles called “nanoparticles” which aim to resemble the structure of the coronavirus, however they cannot replicate once injected and the vaccine cannot cause you to get COVID-19.

                      In order for these subunit vaccines to generate strong protective responses, they need to include molecules that boost your immune system, called “adjuvants”. The goal of these adjuvants is to mimic the way the real virus would activate the immune system, to generate maximum protective immunity.

                      Novavax includes an adjuvant based on a natural product known as saponin, an extract from the bark of the Chilean soapbark tree.

                      The Novavax vaccine is also safe. In early clinical testing the vaccine caused mainly mild adverse events such as pain and tenderness at the injection site, and no serious adverse reactions were recorded. In the larger trials, adverse events occurred at low levels and were similar between the vaccine and placebo groups.'-Sydney Uni study.

                      Sounds appealing to me.

                    • Andy

                      I do actually understand how vaccines are supposed to work.

                      I'm holding back to see how many of my family and friends suffer from unwanted side effects. We have no long term data on this from mRNA so watch this space.

                      It will amuse me if the 95% of Kiwis that have been jabbed have serious long term health issues

            • georgecom 3.1.4.1.1.2

              Novovax, the vaccine which was repeatedly delayed and developed the nickname Nevervax. It is presently being or getting ready to be produced in India. Not sure if there are other sources of production yet. delivery to NZ was slated by end of march 2022 but who knows with this vaccine. if it arrives might be in the 10,000s of thousands rather than millions. realistically NZ does not need several million novavax right now. maybe 2 or 3 million spread throughout 2022 which can be used as a third or fourth shot for people who need it. we have several million doses of AstraZeneca ordered but yet to be delivered and similar with the Janssen vaccine

              • ghostwhowalksnz

                he wants the unobtanium vaccine . Its a deliberate scam hes found out about online

                Always be wanting 'final approval' or the 'local availability'

                Apparently theres 100s and 100s of customs inceptions of Invermectin at the border….they can get odd medicines if they really want them

  4. Tiger Mountain 4

    Simon Bridges’ famous comment about Maureen Pugh seems to keep getting a top up…

  5. Anne 5

    When I saw the post title I thought you were referring to the protesters ms. I mean "freakin useless" is as good as any.

    Spent some time over the last two days observing the crowd and I don't think I have seen such a motley bunch of no-hopers all at once before. One woman speaker earlier today read out a list of rights we are supposedly being denied. One of them was: the right for women to bear children. Please God, spare us this lunacy.

    As for Maureen Pugh and Harete Hipango… I suppose the lowest quarter on the IQ scale are deserving of some representation.

  6. Yes Anne agreed

    Things I have seen

    tiny children, some toddlers some older, a baby being nursed

    *a person using crutches to walk

    *a person in a wheelchair

    Not saying that shouldn't protest* but near the steps, near the monument, in dangerous positions and where the police have gone down at least once that I have seen?

    NO MASKS, sharing drink bottles, not observing physical distancing- is this a suicide mission or do they not believe that Covid is real?

    The protest for all its labelling as anti mandate has turned into the anti vax event many of us thought it was.

    One dear lady making an effort to clean away the mess that was just thrown to the ground

    Kindly people going around the crowd with water and some food.

  7. Anker 7
    • Simon was right!
  8. roblogic 10

    Apologies to mods for my messed up handle. Blimming iPad keyboard

  9. observer 11

    There's a new movement in the land, led by the next generation, our best hope for our future in a bold new Aotearoa.

    The leaders are Maureen Pugh, Brian Tamaki, Winston Peters and the latest hero to rise … Rodney Hide.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/former-act-leader-rodney-hide-backs-parliament-protest-saying-answer-is-to-fight/MIBJACEK2DCD4BSTRFOMPG55QQ/

    A meeting of the Young Rebels will be held at the bowling club, 3 pm (after nap time). Ladies a plate. Bring Super Gold Card.

    • Blade 11.1

      I'm a big fan of the Hydster. He knows what hard work is. He's given local Lefty politicians a free meal ticket for life with the Auckland Super City. He knows how to use his travel perks and he's on a Keto diet. That's a biggy for me.

      On the serious note, I'm on the side of the government at the moment because protesters are hurting innocent people.

      However, if this government fails to adjust to real world realities, and continues down the path of mixed messages and incompetence, my allegiance is going to change and I will support any method to remove this government from office.

      This government does not believe in democracy – then neither should we.

      Jacinda has made that quite clear – she refused to address the protesters.

      And I may add that goes for Luxon, Dave and the Greens.

      Notice not a squeak from the Maori Party.

      • observer 11.1.1

        She refused to address me when I complained about the Scottish Premier League not being broadcast on TVNZ, and my neighbour's dog peeing in my garden. It's a dictatorship, unless she personally speaks to every one of us, right?

        Wrong. I know you're a tedious troll, we all do, and you really need a hobby, but FYI …

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/127741812/new-zealand-rated-worlds-second-most-democratic-country-by-economist-intelligence-unit

        • Blade 11.1.1.1

          ''Wrong. I know you're a tedious troll, we all do, and you really need a hobby, but FYI …'

          The only tedious thing on this blog, dear, is the vile nastiness of Lefties like you.

          You don't need a hobby…you need a course in manners and civility.

          • observer 11.1.1.1.1

            You said:

            (on the grounds of gov’t incompetence …)

            I will support any method to remove this government from office.

            Will those methods be civil?

            • Blade 11.1.1.1.1.1

              If the worst comes to the worst probably not.

              The point is – where do you draw the line?

              I'm now thinking of all the undemocratic things this government has done.

              I will do a tedious post tomorrow about that.

              • observer

                You've already made it clear where you stand. Yesterday, on Open Mike, you said:

                if I was leading the PMs protection squad I would be advising the PM to preferably not face the crowd. And I would be advising her that for the safety of herself and her family she must leave NZ for good after her tenure as PM is up.

                (emphasis added, to a verbatim quote)

                What was that about "vile nastiness" again?

                • Blade

                  Whaat the… let's break it down.!!!

                  ''If I was leading the PMs protection squad I would be advising the PM to preferably not face the crowd.''

                  Correct. Protection in such a situation is very hard work to cover given its fluid nature.

                  Now, if I was the PM, I would have said. ''I need to address them. I will give you a couple of hours to work out, best as you can, some protection for me. I expect to only be outside for a couple of minutes. You can brief me on how you want to proceed and what I should do if the shit hits the fan.''

                  ''And I would be advising her that for the safety of herself and her family she must leave NZ for good after her tenure as PM is up.''

                  Yes, and I'm betting she has been told that. She is a hated woman in some quarters. In the present Covid climate, going to the dairy unprotected could cost her her life. We aren't a safe country anymore.

                  I'm betting she will a least go overseas for 5 years after leaving office. She would in my opinion be a fool to stay.

                  I’m afraid you are reading your own projections…and not what I am writing.

                  • roblogic

                    Wow you are an alt-right nutjob. Please tell us more about your violent fantasies, I am sure the moderators and the Police would be interested.

                    • Blade

                      If you object to some points in my post, explain why…and stop trolling.

                    • roblogic

                      "undemocratic" – false

                      "the PM must leave NZ for good", "going to the dairy could cost her life", "I will support any method to remove this govt from office"

                      🚩🚩🚩

                    • Blade

                      I'm afraid joining disparate sentences and not worrying about the context and explanation given is similar to a doctored video clip.

                    • roblogic

                      Oh I can read your vile rhetoric and the message is clear, it's QAnon adjacent lunacy.

                    • Blade

                      Still no discourse on the points I have made. You are now filling this thread with inanities.

                      Now you have worked QAnon in your comments. That's weird.

                    • roblogic

                      Inanities? No I'm calling out your sly Steve Bannon style talking points.

                    • Robert Guyton

                      roblogic is correct in his "calling out" of Blade and his techniques used here to inflame and provoke. Blade's response; butter wouldn't melt in my mouth, and personal denigration, has become an obvious ploy to deter anyone keen to expose his methods and political bias.

                      I support roblogics "I'm calling out your sly Steve Bannon style talking points."

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    She is a hated woman in some quarters.

                    B, can you offer some insights on why our PM is "a hated woman", to the extent that "going to the dairy unprotected could cost her her life"?

                    It's a genuine question – just trying to understand what you believe has contributed to this supposed level of (dare I say it, extremist) hatred.

                    If your hypotheses are in fact well founded then it would be interesting to identify factors that contribute to such hatred of political leaders, and if this hatred manifests equally at both ends of the political left-right spectrum, or whether NZ has accumulated an enraged rwnj fringe. And, if so, is that rwnj fringe just sad or, as you suggest, a genuine threat to life – which would be a bad look for the political right, imho.

                    We need to talk about left-wing extremism. Or do we?
                    Fairness means we hold all forms of extremism to the same standards, not that we consider all forms of extremism to be equally dangerous and harmful. The latter will only lead us down the road to false equivalencies of phenomena that are fundamentally different. Jihadism and right-wing extremism are at present simply bigger threats and therefore deserve more attention from researchers and policy makers in the security domain.

                • Blade

                  From a Bernard Hickey article:

                  ‘This too will pass.’ Really?

                  ''PM Jacinda Ardern is the target of the most egregious, vituperative and frankly insane accusations in placards, chants and across Facebook, Twitter and comment sections. Yet she has turned the other cheek again and again in an admirable display of restraint and tolerance. She regularly exposes herself to torrents of hatred in her Facebook Live sessions in a way that no other PM would (and has) done.''

                  He's just saying something similar to what I'm saying.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Gosh, PM Ardern’s behaviour sounds “admirable” in so many ways – is that something similar to what you're saying, Blade?

                    I’d still like to get to the root causes of some of the “torrents of hatred“, because they’re honestly a mystery to me.

                  • observer

                    “He’s just saying something similar to what I’m saying.”

                    He's really, really not.

                    He's the prosecutor in a sexual assault trial, while you're the guy who says maybe it happened but she was wearing a short skirt.

                    But if you now plan to start describing attacks on Ardern as egregious, vituperative and frankly insane and will now condemn the torrents of hatred then some good can come of this. I'm an optimist, so maybe even you could have the capacity to grow and mature.

    • Hunter Thompson II 11.2

      Ho ho ho, very good. Political life will never be dull in this country.

  10. vto 12

    I believe the correct term is "blimmin' useless" Micky

  11. Ross 13

    It was time for protesters to move on, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said in a press conference on Thursday morning.

    It was time for the Government to end vaccine passes, mandates and lockdowns and admit each has been a policy failure. I imagine if that happens, the protesters will happily move on.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127729935/police-arrest-120-parliament-trespassers-warn-removal-will-take-some-time

    • observer 13.1

      When you get some votes for your policies, let us know. Until then you'll just have to enjoy life in a democracy. You might hate that, but the people don't.

      • Ross 13.1.1

        You wouldn’t know democracy if you fell over it lol

        • observer 13.1.1.1

          I have fallen over it. I have stood in elections (very minor ones) and lost.

          I didn't then angrily demand the winners do what I wanted, as if the vote had never happened.

  12. left for dead 14

    Morning Micky, please tell,which other MP's are not Vaxxed ?

  13. Enough is Enough 15

    I think it is abundantly clear that National has a deep anti-vax underbelly.

    Luxon is showing he has some control because he is keeping a lid on it for now.

    But for how long. The large anti-science core would have loved to have been out on the Parliament lawn yesterday. They won't stay silent for long.

    • Andy 15.1

      Being sceptical of mRNA jabs, their safety and efficacy does not make one "anti-vax", "anti-science" or any of the other claptrap being spouted

      • roblogic 15.1.1

        Andy is vaccine-hesitant and a spreader of FUD which is itself a public health risk according to the WHO

        • Andy 15.1.1.1

          Can you explain to me how I am a spreader of FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt)?

          I haven't been presenting any fear. I have presented optimistic outlooks based on facts.

          I'm not stopping anyone taking a vaccine and I'm not making any claims about safety, though I could.

      • lprent 15.1.2

        Based on the laziness or incompetence apparent in your previous comment (as I pointed out in my reply to it), I’d say that is likely to be because you are either too lazy to look up relevant information, or too incompetent to understand such information in the first place.

        (cue the classic whining about nasty ‘lefties’ that the pathetic dipshits like ‘andy’ so love to wallow in)

        • Andy 15.1.2.1

          I replied upthread with links to my assertions about Sweden

        • Andy 15.1.2.2

          The reason I asked "is NovaVax available to the public" is because I was under the impression that it wasn't and only has provisional approval. I asked because maybe someone here has more information than I can glean from the Internet.

          It appears not. I and Lprent are correct.

          Thanks for the clarification

          It's a shame that people are being fired from their jobs if they would take Novavax but not Pfizer.

          • McFlock 15.1.2.2.1

            lol "if"

            • Andy 15.1.2.2.1.1

              What is funny about this? There are many people I know who would follow this path. mRNA is very novel. Nova is a traditional vaccine

              • McFlock

                The headline in the link is :

                Mayor 'waiting for Novavax' U-turns, won't get that one either

                Frankly, I think we're down to the antivax dance of seven veils. Every so often a veil drops and shows a bit more… detail.

                • Andy

                  Bit sick of this "antivax" BS. I've had all the usual jabs and will continue to do so.

                  • McFlock

                    I've had all the usual jabs and will continue to do so.

                    So there are "unusual" vaccines that you have refused to take? Not exactly "pro" those ones then, are you.

                    • Andy

                      yes the unusual vaccine I haven't taken is the Pfizer mRNA jab.

                      It is by definition unusual because it is different to all the others (other than Moderna)

                      I know that this is heresy to you guys but I prefer to wait a little until the clinical trials are done (2023 I believe). We know that the vaccine doesn't stop you getting covid, doesn't stop you spreading it, and doesn't stop you getting ill, though it may alleviate some of the worst symptoms

                      Since I seem to disgust you all, I'll leave this discussion here and wish you all a pleasant and relaxing weekend.

                    • McFlock

                      I know that this is heresy to you guys but I prefer to wait a little until the clinical trials are done (2023 I believe).

                      BTW, which clinical trials? The ones for 12-15yo? Pregnant women? Or are you waiting for the two-year followup from the main phase 3 trials? Or longer?

                      Are you expecting vaccine recipients to suddenly start dropping dead en masse after years of few if any serious ill effects? As opposed to fucking covid?

                      You're "hesitant" until the main phases of the pandemic are over, but then I bet you'll do a Goudie and decide the vaccine isn't necessary.

                      But oh no, the term "antivax" can't be applied to you because you've had the MMR jab and maybe a tetanus booster. 🙄

                    • Andy

                      McFlock – a very apt name I might add noting your herd like behavour

                    • McFlock

                      Guess I wasn't too far off the mark then. Otherwise you'd have a clear idea of which trials relevant to your wait will end when.

  14. Tricledrown 16

    Andy your spin is stupidity personified.

    Novovax isn't available it could be weeks away then to be fully immunised would take a further 5 months plus to be fully immunised against omricon.by then the wave will be over and they could have long covid.

    So your argument falls over as the patient is taking up valuable bed space wasting health resources. Which that person that can't work because of their choice not to vaccinate.

    • Andy 16.1

      " Novovax isn't available it could be weeks away "

      I was told to take Novavax upthread. I assumed it wasn't available, so I asked and this was confirmed (as my own research found) So now I am stupid and if I don't get "Fully Vaccinated" and "Boosted" now we will all die

      For someone in my age demographic I have a 99.6% survival rate, and since I work from home and live rurally my chance of encountering the virus is pretty small

      • Julian Richards 16.1.1

        Andy, don't waste your time engaging with the angry bullies on this blog.

        It's an interesting read at times, but I'd recommend you leave it at that for a while… Many have become rabid and deranged here sadly and can only see one perspective which is most often sadly filled with anger, nastiness and name calling. It's like they never left high-school.

    • Andy 16.2

      75% of CV patients are "fully vaccinated"

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