Open Mike 24/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 24th, 2017 - 161 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

161 comments on “Open Mike 24/10/2017 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1
    24 October 2017 at 6:39 am

    Winston for DPM and MFA. So far so predictable. Looking forward to hearing the Green portfolios.

  2. Carolyn_nth 2
    24 October 2017 at 6:44 am

    Chris Trotter, on Stuff this morning, challenges the Ardern government to bring in advisors for REAL economic change: he recommends Ardern bring on board these people to advise: Jane Kelsey; Sue Bradford; Metiria Turei.

    On October 20, however, the NZ First leader, Winston Peters, from the stage of the Beehive Theatrette, told New Zealand that: “Far too many New Zealanders have come to view today’s capitalism, not as their friend, but as their foe. And they are not all wrong. That is why we believe that capitalism must regain its responsible – its human face. That perception has influenced our negotiations.”

    In that moment, it was clear that the revolt against neoliberal economic orthodoxy and the lies of its “experts” had finally reached New Zealand’s shores.
    …
    Just how much “real change” Jacinda Ardern’s government is willing to countenance will be revealed in the people she chooses to advise her.

    • tc 2.1
      24 October 2017 at 6:56 am

      the establishments tamed media persona offering advice again. I see that bloke as just another pagani/Williamson/Edwards.

      So you’ll be hearing a lot from him whilst the rest get their new themes and let the medication kick in that limits the frothing at the mouth rapid right wing dogma.

      • Carolyn_nth 2.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 7:06 am

        Interesting, though, that the Financial Times is also reporting that some business leaders are talking about the need to change capitalism away from the failures of the last 3-4 decades.

        The leaders cite management greed, corporate tax dodging and “short termism”, as problems. Their claims, though, seem to be made more out of fear that the people will seek revenge on a system they see as being unfair. they don’t seem concerned about the negative impacts on the lives of too many people, only that the capitalist system will be rejected outright if it is not reformed.

        So, there is now a period when ideas for a new direction may get traction.

        But I guess we need to beware of the ruling elites just allowing enough change to thwart an outright revolution, rather than really pushing for the changes that the many, and society as a whole, really need.

        • Incognito 2.1.1.1
          24 October 2017 at 7:36 am

          In my opinion capitalism cannot be ‘reformed’ as it is fundamentally flawed. But undoubtedly people will try to put a “human face” on it and she’ll be right. Yeah, nah!

          • Andre 2.1.1.1.1
            24 October 2017 at 8:47 am

            Would you care to put together your thoughts on what an alternative to capitalism would look like? Because, as flawed as it is, fundamentally capitalism still looks better to most people than alternatives we’ve tried.

            Even the most socialist of scandinavian social democracies are still fundamentally capitalist, they’ve just got different settings around how much and what areas of society the state is involved in and how to pay for it.

            • Brigid 2.1.1.1.1.1
              24 October 2017 at 11:23 am

              I would describe “even the most socialist of scandinavian social democracies” as fundamentally socialist.

              • Andre …
                24 October 2017 at 11:48 am

                How so? Their economies all rely on private ownership of land and capital for the purpose of generating profits for their private owners. That’s capitalism. That their state sectors are larger than ours and welfare systems more generous doesn’t change the fact that the fundamental organising principle is capitalism.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.1.2
              24 October 2017 at 1:16 pm

              All housing owned by the state and allocated on an as need basis with lifetime lease.
              Businesses to be self-owned and run by the people who work there.
              A UBI of course.
              And the state being the only creator of money in the country.
              Dropping of all FTA and removal of the country from the IMF, the World Bank and the WTO. Replace them all with standards that other countries need to meet before we trade with them.

              • Andre …
                24 October 2017 at 1:25 pm

                What percent of the voting population do you reckon would go for that? Versus what percent would fight it with everything they’ve got?

                TBH, the idea of a state jobsworth allocating where I live, rather than letting me choose how much of my resources I’m willing to put into where I live and making my best choice within that constraint, is something I’d fight very hard against.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  24 October 2017 at 1:52 pm

                  Who said anything about the state allocating where you live?

                  • Andre …
                    24 October 2017 at 1:55 pm

                    “All housing owned by the state and allocated…” isn’t about the state allocating where someone lives?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      24 October 2017 at 2:35 pm

                      No.

                      You choose the area and even the house if it’s available. If multiple people are asking for that house then the one with the most need for it gets it. If someone has a new job in the area then they’ll get it over someone who just wants to move to the area.

                      If there’s a high demand for that area then housing NZ will build more houses in that area to cater to the demand. And the demand will actually be known because they’ll have the applications.

                    • Andre …
                      24 October 2017 at 2:57 pm

                      Draco, if you can’t see how that proposal amounts to state jobsworths exercising unwanted control over something that is a major part of people’s lives, then I really can’t help you.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      24 October 2017 at 5:12 pm

                      What control?

                      Or how about I put it in terms of now:

                      You choose to live somewhere. You look to see if a house is for sale or for rent. If there is you then offer a sum of money. If it’s enough you get the place if not you’re out of luck.

                      If there isn’t a place available you either build (if a place to build is available) or you’re simply out of luck.

                      Same would apply if housing was state owned except that there would be no money involved.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2
          24 October 2017 at 1:11 pm

          But I guess we need to beware of the ruling elites just allowing enough change to thwart an outright revolution, rather than really pushing for the changes that the many, and society as a whole, really need.

          That’s what they’ve been doing since the great Depression and it still hasn’t worked. Managed to keep general revolution at bay though.

          We need the politicians and the economists to realise that capitalism simply doesn’t and never will do. Then we’ll have the space open for other ideas but that is something that the business community certainly don’t want because then they wouldn’t be able to get rich.

          • cleangreen 2.1.1.2.1
            24 October 2017 at 2:52 pm

            Draco,

            I totally agree wth you, as housing is one of “a basic ‘essential’ neccesity of life & need” (a human right)

            Most people dont understand now what the basic needs are and the role of having government.

            Government is there to provide “the basic essential nessecities of life” such as power, water, shelter, education, health services, transport, and housing.

            Jobs are the premise of bussiness activities, and government supply public servant jobs for their administration.

            Bussiness was never set up to garantee all the basic essential nessecities of life.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2.1.1
              24 October 2017 at 5:05 pm

              Bussiness was never set up to garantee all the basic essential nessecities of life.

              But that’s what they were supposed to do under the neo-liberal paradigm. That’s what National and ACT mean when they say small government. They’ve failed to do as promised just like they failed in the 19th century and throughout history.

    • Wayne 2.2
      24 October 2017 at 7:59 am

      Trotter seem to think New Zealand voted for a revolution. They didn’t. The vote is way too finely balanced for such a claim.

      They voted for change, specific things to be fixed such as clean water, housing etc.

      If Jacinda Arden wants to be a one term Prime Minister she will follow Chris Trotter’s advice. But she is way smarter than to follow the advice of an ex New Labour activist. I can just imagine what her cabinet colleagues and indeed Helen Clark would think of Trotter’s advice.

      That is why talk of failures of capitalism made on “The Nation” were not repeated on “Q & A”. I would say she quickly realised that such talk has way too much political risk. Instead the language shifted to “market failure”, a well understood term in political and social markets.

      • DoublePlusGood 2.2.1
        24 October 2017 at 10:34 am

        Your first two paragraphs are correct, but your third one doesn’t follow.
        Making dramatic changes toward social democracy will bring huge benefits to New Zealanders, and that would likely shift the Overton window significantly to the left.

  3. cleangreen 3
    24 October 2017 at 7:01 am

    I tuned off from watching TV one when this morning during the morning news at 6.45 the ex prime minister Bill English came on TV one to rant about his party’s succcess over the last nine years so where is the new PM then?????

    So my embargo of TV one will continue until TV one broadcasts a more balanced and fair coverage of the new Government about to be signed in as our new government today.

    Wake up TV One as we are now living with a new government that we want to see sack all you National cling-ons and install a more balanced fair broadcasting team than we have had for the last nine years.

    Pathetic display of naked bias against the newly elected government is clearly continuing on our publically owned TV one and this must now be corrected.

    • NewsFlash 3.1
      24 October 2017 at 8:01 pm

      +1 cleangreen

      The national broadcaster has been infected with right wing lobbyists, a deliberate attempt at undermining the neutral nature we expect as it’s paid for through taxes, Key turned it into a National Party propaganda machine, using public funds and brainwashing the more gullible viewers, and there’s quite a few of them.

      We can’t have a minority view point be broadcasted without balancing it with the majorities viewpoint.

  4. Zorb6 4
    24 October 2017 at 7:05 am

    Breaking news.The entire National Party caucus have been offered jobs at NZ Post…delivering for New Zealanders.

  5. Tony Veitch (not etc) 5
    24 October 2017 at 7:11 am

    I had to laugh this morning as I listened to RNZ news – NZQA can’t figure out why many of the so-called educational institutes which have been deregistered or sanctioned are owned or part owned by Chinese or Indians.

    I can’t speak for India, but as one who has lived in China for a few years, the answer is so obvious – corruption and bribery!

    In China, you pays your money, you get the results you want!

    • tracey 5.1
      24 October 2017 at 8:29 am

      And the bad ones are well known and reported. Selling Degres and feeding cheap labour into businesses who will pay for 2 yearsso the new graduate can qualify for PR.

      • OnceWasTim 5.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 9:47 am

        They’ve been well know and reported on for quite some time – repeatedly, whether officially or through back channels.
        NZQA is finally getting on to it, but their under-resourcing and failures have come too late for many people who’ve been utterly fleeced.
        If I can dig into the backgrounds of some of the PTE operators, Labour Supply agencies and contractors using google, foreign media and the companies register, then it’s bloody obvious that NZQA, INZ and the Labour Inspectorate who can call on the resources of Police and other agencies should have been able to do better.
        I suspect NZQA’s statement is more about keeping a lid on things until they get a few more wins/prosecutions and have more ‘conversations’ with INZ.

  6. eco maori 6
    24 October 2017 at 7:15 am

    I rember when I was a young my uncle was killing a opossum and when he swung the hammer I was standing behind him and fuck I was spitting out bits of my teeth man that was sore . I was 12 and I did not go to school for 2 weeks I was eating weetbix for 3 weeks .It was my rugby coach that asked what happen to my teeth I told him the story
    And it was he that told me to go to the school dentist to get my teeth fixed . I was really
    great full as no more pain and I lost a bit of weight I could got to school when I wanted or just stay home and ride horse’s I use to run right over the top of most other players of Rugby/ scrag .
    Many thanks to Ros Taylor and Thomas Maxwell Latham our brown men playing a great game for NZ cricket and wining in Inda .This feat should have got major coverage in all our media platforms !!!!!!!!! . The big picture is if we nurture and train all our youth
    and provied them more disposable income more of our brown children will climb to the great heights of sports stardom We just need a fair and just society.P.S Hope I got that right. Ka pai

    • eco maori 6.1
      24 October 2017 at 8:01 am

      WAR IS FOR IDIOTS Yes these 2 men did not win that game on there own as it takes good Management and a excellent team Wairua to get in to that top spear of our World Sports .
      Now all you people that are new to our shores I welcome you and advise you that the Prime Minster Elect will not kick you in the private parts so just relax and keep positive as she will be a fear and just Leader you should beable to see this for your selves .
      Our Dollar well don’t treat because a lower dollar is good for us all in some way It won’t crash OUR Dollar is one of the most traded currency in the World so that tell a story in its self our dollar always trades lower when Labour rules its good we will slow down our consumption nation and this is the direction we have to take to save Mother Earth for our grandchildren P.S we will pay our dept faster to.
      9 % compulsory Kiwi Saver this will transfer our dept back to our shores .
      Everyone has to vote at the next election this will help stop the social media’s influence on our elections . Ka pai

    • Patricia Bremner 6.2
      24 October 2017 at 10:22 pm

      You Did 100%

  7. Robert Guyton 7
    24 October 2017 at 7:19 am

    “The Chinese bidder for Landcorp’s Jericho Station in Southland has applied to the Overseas Investment Office (OIO) for permission to buy the property, almost five months after his offer was accepted.

    Controversy surrounds the sale because a well known Southland farmer Ed Pinckney has also been in contention for the sheep and beef farm, but his offer was refused even though it was only about $200,000 less.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/98063078/chinese-bidder-for-jericho-sation-seeks-overseas-investment-office-approval

    • Frida 7.1
      24 October 2017 at 7:45 am

      If there is an alternative NZ purchaser, then the Chinese buyer will need to show the benefits he can offer that the NZ purchaser cannot (i.e. the counter-factual). Fingers crossed he can’t meet the test

    • James Thrace 7.2
      24 October 2017 at 7:45 am

      First real test for Labour now, to walk the walk.
      Although they never said anything about restricting farmland.

      The buyer appears to have left it slightly too late. OIO talks about making an application within a timely manner.

      One suspects five months after making an offer is not timely. There’s no information as to whether the offeror flagged the prospective purchase with OIO.
      If I were the OIO, I’d decline this sale on the basis that the next offer down was only 200k less, and therefore more likely to create opportunities for NZ.

      • Robert Guyton 7.2.1
        24 October 2017 at 8:17 am

        Winston points out that the delay has resulted in an opportunity cost already, in the form of $26 000 of interest per month that would have accrued from an immediate sale to the NZ buyer, meaning the $200 000 difference between the offers would be negated by now.

  8. cleangreen 8
    24 October 2017 at 7:29 am

    Chinese buying our state asets and “sensitive NZ farmland holdings” must stop now!!!!!!!

    Thank you for your post Robert.

    • Enough is Enough 8.1
      24 October 2017 at 10:10 am

      Why are you singling out Chinese?

      • OnceWasTim 8.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 10:19 am

        He’s not if you consider that it’s a discussion that began at 7 on a specific case.
        No doubt it transcends nationality in other cases.

        • cleangreen 8.1.1.1
          24 October 2017 at 12:58 pm

          Yep Once Was Tim.

          Like Winston always says “it’s about the policy”

          Others like to use rubbish ‘smear talk’ for their ends.

      • Andre 8.1.2
        24 October 2017 at 10:35 am

        Nationality isn’t entirely irrelevant. In the area around where I have a part interest in a property, there are a number of properties purchased by Chinese (presumably for landbanking) that have since been left unused and neglected to the point where they become a pest reservoir nuisance to the neighbours. When considering two competing offers, that was certainly a factor in us accepting the lower offer from a local with a track record of being a caring steward of the land, rather than a significantly higher offer from foreign investors.

      • Naki man 8.1.3
        24 October 2017 at 11:46 am

        cleangreen thinks its ok to be racist.

  9. Et Tu Brute ? 9
    24 October 2017 at 8:21 am

    If is Hollywood tanking .. what is the outlook for the broader economy ?

    https://www.sott.net/article/365140-Nothing-working-in-Hollywood-Big-studios-forced-to-cut-losses-pulling-flops-from-theaters-at-a-fast-pace

    http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/10/22/hollywoods-biggest-movies-flop-big-time-as-industry

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  10. mac1 10
    24 October 2017 at 8:28 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/98132642/kaikura-mp-stuart-smith-ready-for-opposition-stint?cid=edm:stuff:marlboroughexpress&bid=405433560

    National’s Stuart Smith (described by Winston Peters during the election as a back-stabbing neo-liberal who has done nothing since he got there),MP for Kaikoura, has spoken about ‘delivering for New Zealanders” who are his constituents.

    He said that in three years he had done more than his predecessor (Colin King, National MP for nine years) who he supplanted.

    If this is a taste of National Party loyalty, I can understand why Bill English won’t talk about his prospects for staying on as National’s leader.

    Stuart Smith’s present position that he will stay on in a “strong opposition” and face a possible nine years languishing there indicates that they certainly intend to break that MMP nine year cycle.

    We can look forward to changes in their line-up with the sloughing off mercilessly of their older leadership, and the promotion of aggressive and ruthless younger MPs who seek Ministerial office in their time.

    • tracey 10.1
      24 October 2017 at 8:31 am

      Only cos there was an earthquake did he do more cos the obvious needed to be done.

    • ianmac 10.2
      24 October 2017 at 9:02 am

      The only solace from the Stuart Smith grandiose claims is that it may mean that his Kaikoura supporters are fed up with his total inaction on behalf of his constituents.
      For instance, many would be surprised to learn of his action to get a new site for the colleges. Really?Labour Janette Walker has done far more for people and she is not even an MP.

  11. halfcrown 11
    24 October 2017 at 8:38 am

    Just seen Boag on the AM show, (well that’s not quite right turned her off after watching for about 30 seconds) what a vile twisted evil person who definitely got a personal vendetta against Peters,
    Why do they keep getting these has-beens out of the musty old National party morgue, wind them up and let them go full bore without anybody there to give a counter argument? We have had NOTHING but right-wing commentators on this morning including English. No spokesperson from the new government.
    It is also about time we had some younger people on the programme, the same age group as Ardern, after all, it is their world now to fix up.
    TVNZ 1 is just as bad, man aren’t they all pissed off over Peters going with Labour

    • Whispering Kate 11.1
      24 October 2017 at 11:14 am

      I call her Morticia and instead of the morgue I call her place of abode the crypt. That woman has to be the scariest human on the planet, a wake up nightmare apparition. She seriously needs to be removed from the airwaves and put out to hanging out with the bats at night.

  12. Reality 12
    24 October 2017 at 8:48 am

    Michelle Boag in fact is so horrible that she might repel as many people as she thinks she is influencing! And surely some people would have picked up and been put off by Mike Hosking’s petulant, I am so important (more important in fact than the new PM elect and how dare she keep me waiting) rant on Thursday night.

    At least Wayne Mapp is sane.

    • Frida 12.1
      24 October 2017 at 11:27 am

      I think relentless negativity in the form Michele Boag portrays is going to turn people off left right and centre in the face of the positive collaborative attitude to be shown by Ardern and Shaw. So while she is hideous to endure in the short term, she may just do the new Govt a favour if she keeps it up. I agree, though, a horrible horrible woman.

    • Gristle 12.2
      24 October 2017 at 1:36 pm

      Michelle Boag is known to hold a vendetta and then exact punative utu for the smallest of perceived slights. This is why she continues to gets access to media. However, IMO once a crack appears, it is highly likely that her power base will disintegrate rapidly .

      • OnceWasTim 12.2.1
        24 October 2017 at 1:59 pm

        Not sure about that. MB’s got so many cracks showing whilst buildings have been demolished for less as earthquake risks. Yet she continues to survive and grace us all with her spectacular wisdom at least once a week.

        • cleangreen 12.2.1.1
          24 October 2017 at 3:22 pm

          Hi Gristle

          I was told last nigt that Michelle Boag is related to Matthew Hooten!!!!!!

          Can someone cofirm this please?

  13. ianmac 13
    24 October 2017 at 9:08 am

    There is a brilliant poster going the rounds but I cannot get it to copy and paste it here. Shows the detail of the Blue result in 2014 election then the Red poster result for 2017. Damns the negative complainers. Some one must have it and cleverly post it here. It is very good.

  14. Puckish Rogue 14
    24 October 2017 at 9:17 am

    Testing…

    • Andre 14.1
      24 October 2017 at 9:35 am

      Welcome back. The current record for post-election returnees before getting banned again is four hours twenty eight minutes. Your clock has started.

    • halfcrown 14.2
      24 October 2017 at 10:12 am

      Welcome back Puckish. Please don’t get offended as I say this in jest “I have missed your one-eyed rightwing bullshit’ You’re not really like that, Welcome back looking forward to your opinions.

      • Puckish Rogue 14.2.1
        24 October 2017 at 10:24 am

        Thanks for that and well done to Labour for putting together a government

        • cleangreen 14.2.1.1
          24 October 2017 at 12:22 pm

          Thanks Puckish rougue,

          We hope you will help us fix this broken country now, since the national wrecking ball has done it’s worst to wreck our environment.

          See this from our letter sent this morning to Professor James Renwick,

          Sad enditement from a careless National Party policy as we see for real now.

          —————————————————————————————————————-

          24th October 2017.

          James Renwick,
          Professor School of Geography, Environment and Earth Sciences.
          BSc (Hons), Mathematics, Canterbury, (1977); MSc, Statistics,
          Victoria University of Wellington.

          Dear James,

          Such a pleasure to review your report on Climate change and NZ emissions of emissions it is very sadly needed to be highlighted today.
          http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018618970

          Of special interest to our committee is the large increase of freight truck use we are monitoring in HB/Gisborne regions NZ average of 6% annually is now at 12% in Gisborne/HB for freight movements of 36% of NZ exports of our products from both east coast provinces.

          I commend your report and will advance this document as signalling a return of freight back to rail in our regions as Hon’ Winston Peters has for several years attended meetings in both East coast provinces has pledged in Government to bring back our mothballed rail system into service again which will have an extremely useful method of helping to reduce our climate change emissions again.

          I would like to converse with you in the weeks ahead, and offer our study reports to you as we have conducted them often in collusion with other agencies and may be very useful for your continuing studies also.

          Warmest regards,

          —————————————————————————————————————-
          http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018618970

          A new report http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018618970 on climate change has painted a stark picture of New Zealand’s contribution to global greenhouse gas emissions. It says climate change is already potentially irreversibly affecting the country’s natural systems, and many aspects of climate change will continue for centuries. Global gross emissions of greenhouse gases rose 50 per cent from 1990 to 2013, mainly due to people burning more fossil fuels for electricity generation, heat, transport, manufacturing and construction. Despite New Zealand’s contribution being quite small at 0.17 per cent, we have the fifth-highest level of emissions per person of the 35 countries in the OECD. Kathryn Ryan speaks with James Renwick, a professor at the School of Geography, Environment and Earth Sciences at Victoria University who contributed to the report.
          Key findings of ‘Our atmosphere and climate 2017’ report
          Ministry for the EnvironmentPLUS
          Ministry for the Environment and Stats NZ environmental reporting looks at the pressures, state and impacts on the environment and tracks change over time. Here are some key findings from Our atmosphere and climate 2017.

        • Robert Guyton 14.2.1.2
          24 October 2017 at 12:24 pm

          Hey, Pucky!
          If only National hadn’t overdone the lying, eh!
          They might have got back in.

          • Puckish Rogue 14.2.1.2.1
            24 October 2017 at 1:05 pm

            If Judith Collins had been leader National would have gotten over 50%…possibly 🙂

            • Robert Guyton 14.2.1.2.1.1
              24 October 2017 at 1:09 pm

              Given that Judith never lies, you might be right.
              We’ll find out at the next election.
              It’s mean to call English, “Bingles” – perhaps that’s what sank him?

            • Stuart Munro 14.2.1.2.1.2
              24 October 2017 at 1:19 pm

              I understand she’s very big in swamps.

              • Robert Guyton …
                24 October 2017 at 1:25 pm

                So are alligators.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  24 October 2017 at 1:27 pm

                  * sings
                  “Never smile at a crocodile
                  No, you can’t get friendly with a crocodile
                  Don’t be taken in by her welcome grin
                  She’s imagining how well you’d fit within her skin
                  Never smile at a crocodile
                  Never tip your hat and stop to talk awhile
                  Never run, walk away, say good-night, not good-day
                  Clear the aisle but never smile at Mrs Crocodile”

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    24 October 2017 at 1:34 pm

                    I wonder if she and Paula might be persuaded to sing this as a duet:

                    A bold hippopotamus was standing one day
                    On the banks of the cool Shalimar
                    He gazed at the bottom as he peacefully lay
                    By the light of the evening star
                    Away on the hilltop sat combing her hair
                    His fair hippopotami maid…

                    In a pinch Gerry might do the male part – he had musical ambitions at one time.

        • weka 14.2.1.3
          24 October 2017 at 12:37 pm

          Seriously dude, you need to pick a single handle and stick to it. I’m not even going to bother asking for confirmation because I’ve spent way too much time on this already, but if I see you posting under another name again I will ban you. This is mostly so I don’t have to use my time going into the back end to check what you are doing.

          If you don’t know what I am referring to I suggest you look back at past moderation notes. If you have multiple people using your ISP, then let us know.

  15. ankerawshark 15
    24 October 2017 at 9:31 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/98160028/yes-jacinda-ardern-cursed-the-all-blacks-i-was-there

    Glad someone satirising the Herald over their article about Jacinda cursing the All Blacks.

  16. rhinocrates 16
    24 October 2017 at 9:36 am

    Heartbreaking story from Peter Watts (sf writer, lapsed marine biologist and ailurophile) on homelessness and mental health in Toronto. Not too different. Maybe Wayne Blimp would like to read it and tell us it doesn’t matter because some statistic or other looks good if you squint the right way.

    http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=7710

  17. Ffloyd 17
    24 October 2017 at 9:59 am

    Bill English is a man of few words. His new few words are ‘ I got the most votes ‘. Inserted into every sentence at any opportunity. Poor Eeyore!

    • cleangreen 17.1
      24 October 2017 at 12:28 pm

      I couldnt stand seeing Bill English’s sorry sad sack face any more Fflyod and reached for the eject button.

      I felt so much better then.

  18. greywarshark 18
    24 October 2017 at 10:31 am

    Three minutes of news that manages to elevate Bill English and rubbish solo mothers. Nice one Radionz and Katherine Hutton. Bill English is given voice time telling of all the sad cases that Social Investment is going to help. (Ironic that this is the government who has worsened the plight of struggling people year by year and caused the eruption of problems like an inflamed boil that couldn’t be ignored.)

    Then evidence is quoted about the most likely people to be having troubles – solo mothers comes first, not the fact that it is only a percentage of them who have prison connections, etc. So all are lumped in as being the problem, when so many are struggling on and doing a good job in difficult circumstances.

    Professor Jonathan Boston outlines the advantages of social investment, and the requirements for it to be effective which Labour/G/F should meet. Bill Rosenberg, economist points out that attending to basic need such as housing, better wages, rather than pinpointing problem people and targeting them would probably be the way L>G>F would wish to handle it.

    My view is that if they combine those two approaches, with attending to need first, and then asking people where they first want help, would drop problems down to half. (And also police be told to stop chasing cars for doing 130kmh on motorways, and looking out for stolen cars at night. Then they could attend other reported crimes faster, at less human and financial cost.)

    life and society politics
    6:39 am today
    New govt urged to keep English’s ‘social investment approach’
    From Morning Report, 6:39 am today
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018618937/new-govt-urged-to-keep-english-s-social-investment-approach

    Listen duration 2′ :44″
    Labour is being urged to keep Bill English’s pet social welfare project that identifies high risk families and then focuses government help. The so-called Social Investment Approach uses data to measure how services are being delivered to the most vulnerable and whether they’re working.

    (Sounds like targeting to me. What is needed is monitoring and reporting, and revising if assistance is not working. But not with high and unreasonably demanding levels of improvement required. Good things take time. And starting with small goals that are achievable is needed, both for the social workers, and for those being helped, the ‘clients’.)

    • cleangreen 18.1
      24 October 2017 at 12:33 pm

      Greywarshark
      That was so evil putting that plonker B English on the Radio NZ prime time news spot when nothing was presented about our new government was offered in person so we need to totally rearrange Radio NZ and fire all the national cling on’s that are still hiding as “national cells” within the new government so take them all out of government.

      • Stuart Munro 18.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 1:22 pm

        That is necessary – but the one that is most overdue is Treasury. Long past time the far right ideologues there were ousted in favour of data driven folk. No free lunch for Chicago school trash.

      • Gristle 18.1.2
        24 October 2017 at 1:58 pm

        Cleangreen, I don’t understand or like the “we.” Unless you are a member of the Government, then what is this “we.”

        (It’s like when the All Blacks win and people say “we won.” Really, I (and probably you) had next to nothing to creating this win. )

        Back to RNZ. I think it is particularly stupid to go around firing people on the basis of their political views unless of course they happen to be your political adviser. Radio NZ is considered by others to be “Red Radio.” Me, I think RNZ is too conservative to be called Red.

        RNZ is up for rearrangement as it is poised under Labour policy to become the key public broadcasting institution. No doubt the RNZ Board will change, Richard Griffin has been Chair there for about 7 years now and probably was heading for retirement soon anyway. Anyway, there are going to heaps of new people to create and implement this new version of RNZ. I am looking forward to see who is picked and what they do.

        • OnceWasTim 18.1.2.1
          24 October 2017 at 4:10 pm

          Sort of agree @Gristle, but you do have to concede that the gNats began by giving their mates what amounts to corporate welfare in the commercial media sector, then starved public service media as much as possible. When those pesky Red Radio people wouldn’t lay down and die, they started to do their best at stacking the deck. (It still won;t work however).

          • Molly 18.1.2.1.1
            24 October 2017 at 5:02 pm

            “Back to RNZ. I think it is particularly stupid to go around firing people on the basis of their political views unless of course they happen to be your political adviser. “
            They shouldn’t be fired for their political views, but should be let go if they have an inability to separate those views from their decision making or editing and programming decisions.

            It would be ideal to have a clear mission statement from RNZ on how they decide to inform and ensure accuracy balance in reporting and news programmes.

            The current mission statement (if Wikipedia is correct) The station’s mission statement requires it to promote and reflect New Zealand in the Pacific, and better relations between New Zealand and Pacific countries. is a bit vague for me, and makes no mention of quality or balanced reporting.

            • Gristle 18.1.2.1.1.1
              24 October 2017 at 7:18 pm

              Even this has some problems. I read The Atlantic and know its editorial position is liberal democratic US exceptionalism. I read the Intercept and know its starting point. The issue is when media is presented as unbiased because that just doesn’t happen.

              One persons accuracy becomes somebody else’s sin of omission. As their particular perspective is ignored so there goes the balance.

              Often news items appear on TV because they are videographic and can be easily encapsulated into 60 seconds. Short form news by its nature is truncated and by its abbreviation it becomes distorted.

              Often as the story gets longer the bias becomes obvious and the story will weaken unless evidence and argument is strong.

              A second phone call is good to arrange lunch, but makes a poor substitute for the lunch discussion.

              • Molly …
                26 October 2017 at 4:51 pm

                “One persons accuracy becomes somebody else’s sin of omission. As their particular perspective is ignored so there goes the balance.”
                That is true. But at least that gives the audience a statement to relate to when writing complaints about bias.

                “A second phone call is good to arrange lunch, but makes a poor substitute for the lunch discussion.”
                Only phrase that comes to mind when reading this is: ain’t that the truth?

  19. Kay 19
    24 October 2017 at 10:44 am

    Message for The Chairmen if you see this.

    Following on from our brief interaction in yesterday’s OM re a Christmas bonus for beneficiaries. I’ve just been in contact with my friend in England who’s on their equivalent of Supported Living payment/Invalids. She informs me she’s been getting a whole 10 quid (so about $20) going way back, and is pretty sure it was for people on all the main benefits, ie the unemployed sick, jobless and sole parents. The latter one’s bonus is based on per child. She was very surprised to receive it last year.

    But she’s pretty certain they’ll probably stop it given the Tory Government is currently undertaking a very real programme of passive genocide towards anyone who has the audacity to no be able to work for whatever reason. And no, that’s not hyperbole. Said friend’s had a very close call with them, another is up to about 14 weeks in hospital so far and nearly dead from the stress of dealing with the DWP considering her fit to work. (This is why I can’t watch I Daniel Blake, it’s happening to my friends).

    I slightly digress there but it’s always good to emphasise what’s going on in the UK because the Nats were in the process of bringing that policy here and it’s highly likely another 3 years of them would’ve resulted in a massive spike in beneficiary deaths, which we know has already started.

    $20 as a Christmas bonus will do bugger all for our financial situation of course, but it would certainly allow for a couple of food treats that we couldn’t consider getting any other time. And it’s not going to bankrupt the country.

  20. Ad 20
    24 October 2017 at 11:28 am

    From February next year, the car and motorcycle population will not be allowed to increase .

    To get a car in Singapore you need a Certificate of Entitlement. But now Singapore is going to cap the total number of cars and motorbikes across the entire country:

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/lta-scraps-vehicle-growth-rate

    Something for even the Greens to aspire to!

    • One Two 20.1
      24 October 2017 at 12:48 pm

      The entire country of Singapore

      Is miniscule in size, and also has public transport covering its small area space…

      • Ad 20.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 2:43 pm

        A great task for a new Minister of Climate Change would be to show what difference that rail electrification and higher public transport use has made to Auckland’s CO2 emissions. Or maybe for an Associate Minister of Transport.

    • cleangreen 20.2
      24 October 2017 at 12:48 pm

      Bloody good stuff Ed

      I am all for this with freight trucks now that we have the latest forecast that trucks are causing 80% of the total transport ‘Climate change emissions’.

      So truck use now need to be cut back and the report says we need more freight back on rail.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018618970

      The report confirms we are now the fifth highest climate change emissions country per population in the world now.

      Not a pretty picture is it. No more “roads of national Significance” (RONs) we ow must adopt NZF rail policy on their website, called “Rails of National Importance” (RONI)

      A new report http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018618970 on climate change has painted a stark picture of New Zealand’s contribution to global greenhouse gas emissions. It says climate change is already potentially irreversibly affecting the country’s natural systems, and many aspects of climate change will continue for centuries. Global gross emissions of greenhouse gases rose 50 per cent from 1990 to 2013, mainly due to people burning more fossil fuels for electricity generation, heat, transport, manufacturing and construction. Despite New Zealand’s contribution being quite small at 0.17 per cent, we have the fifth-highest level of emissions per person of the 35 countries in the OECD. Kathryn Ryan speaks with James Renwick, a professor at the School of Geography, Environment and Earth Sciences at Victoria University who contributed to the report.
      Key findings of ‘Our atmosphere and climate 2017’ report
      Ministry for the EnvironmentPLUS
      Ministry for the Environment and Stats NZ environmental reporting looks at the pressures, state and impacts on the environment and tracks change over time. Here are some key findings from Our atmosphere and climate 2017.

  21. joe90 21
    24 October 2017 at 11:34 am

    Intimations and innuendo about JA and partner – dirty politics are go over at blubber’s and the sewer.

  22. greywarshark 22
    24 October 2017 at 11:45 am

    Wikipedia are asking for another donation and say they are lagging behind their required level.

    They say that only 1% of users give. I am sure, like me, people mean to donate but don’t get around to it. I did a while ago but it’s asking time again apparently. Would all of you who value wikipedia go to the donate button on their page.

    If any of you are negative about something re wikipedia, please don’t bother to tell us your gripe. Thank you.

  23. swordfish 23
    24 October 2017 at 1:20 pm

    Some talk on the Blogosphere & Social Media over recent weeks suggesting that NZF is (in terms of its support-base) a largely “Rural” or “Provincial” or “Very Small Town” Party

    To test this idea – I’ve sorted seats into 4 categories & found that

    .

    31.5% … (58845) … of NZF’s Party Vote is derived from Metro seats (Auckland + Wellington + Christchurch)

    29.6% … (55355) … of NZF’s Party Vote is derived from Provincial City seats (ranging in size from Gisborne up to Hamilton)

    31.5% … (58766) … of NZF’s Party Vote is derived from Rural seats

    7.4% … (13740) … of NZF’s Party Vote is derived from Maori seats

    .

    While this is a relatively rough & ready methodology, it does nicely highlight the sheer diversity of NZF support in Urban vs Rural terms

    NZF certainly derives disproportionate support from Rural & Small Town New Zealand but that by no means defines its voter-base

    Yes you could certainly call it a “Provincial” Party
    ie 61% of NZF support comes courtesy of Provincial City & Rural New Zealand

    But then, by the same token, precisely the same majority of NZFers ‘derive from Urban New Zealand (Metro + Provincial City = 61%)

    .

    Richard Harman at Politik (English faces uphill battle) has suggested

    New Zealand First’s party vote came overwhelmingly from the North Island provincial electorates

    Not true
    just a large minority = 46% (86136) from the North Island Provincial City & Rural seats

    Viewed from another angle – NZF also derives a large minority of its support from our
    6 Largest Cities (Auckland Wellington Christchurch Hamilton Tauranga (+ BoP) Dunedin) = 41% (77370)

    • Ad 23.1
      24 October 2017 at 2:46 pm

      Have you ever read The Eight Tribes of New Zealand?

      Worth having a look at the Balclutha and Papakura tribes – they capture the flavour of New Zealand First rather well.

      You can figure out which one you belong to here:

      http://www.8tribes.co.nz/find.php

      • swordfish 23.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 3:37 pm

        Cheers Adrick

        My dominant tribes are supposedly :
        Grey Lynn (Intellectual)
        Raglan (Free spirited)

        But I suspect also more than a touch of both
        Cuba St (Avant Garde) &
        Papatoetoe (Unpretentious)

        As outrageously contradictory as that might seem

      • gsays 23.1.2
        24 October 2017 at 3:47 pm

        Cheers ad, Papatoe in da house.

  24. bwaghorn 24
    24 October 2017 at 2:24 pm

    if labour are serious about becoming a true mmp style party with an eye on the long term , when they are setting up their tax working group they should have a space at the table for Gareth Morgan , he’ s an ideas man with a sound financial brain and who knows top might be a future coalition party .

    keep in mind 2+% voted for his party

    • ropata 24.1
      24 October 2017 at 4:49 pm

      Yeah I was surprised that a couple of close friends wasted their votes on TOP.

      Respect to their policy ideas but to me it was just another rick prick distraction campaign and it wasted a large % of progressive votes. To truly make a difference, Morgan should have quit near the end and endorsed the Greens

      Another mate voted Conservative, such are the vagaries of MMP that there are a lot of wasted votes. 🙁

  25. Ad 25
    24 October 2017 at 2:41 pm

    The Spanish federal government is about to impose federal government on Catalonia.

    If there was one moment for the European Union to show , in the midst of massive anti-EU votes all around the continent, that it can successfully intervene diplomatically and get leaders to talk rather than trudge down the stony road to civil war, this is the moment to do it.

    So far, all we are getting is two dumb-assed Spanish leaders going down really stupid paths with zero dialogue and increased force.

    Time for the EU to show what its capacity and purpose really is.

    • bwaghorn 25.1
      24 October 2017 at 3:53 pm

      who’s in the wrong over there?

      • exkiwiforces 25.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 6:40 pm

        The EU has already give the Catalonia’s the two finger salute during or before the vote to leave Spain.

        It would be nice to see the EU have some balls over this, but I’m afraid there’s more chance of Winix winning the Caulfield Cup on Saturday than the EU getting everyone around the table for talks.

  26. savenz 26
    24 October 2017 at 2:50 pm

    “A record number of immigrants accounted for more than 70 percent of population growth in New Zealand in the last year, according to new data from Stats NZ.

    The data reveals that our country’s population grew by 100,400 in the year ending June 2017 – and a whopping 72,300 of that was as a result of net migration.”

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/10/auckland-leads-significant-new-zealand-population-growth.html

    What I find ridiculous is still every day we get articles from MSM that the economy and business will suffer if they can’t get any more low paid workers – so apparently Kiwis have to subsidise the housing and infrastructure of all these low paid workers for companies like Sky city and hotels http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/10/queenstown-concerned-about-effect-of-immigration-cuts-on-tourism.html

    – it’s clearly adding to the housing shortage which apparently tax payers have to pay to fix at the rate of $1000 a week motel rooms for the poor and lower wages for the working poor and generous subsidies to developers.

    Neoliberalism has gone too far. This is a big problem in NZ with business leaching on the backs of the taxpayers for cheaper and cheaper labour so they can make more profits while average Joe suffers.

    What about user pays that these business types apparently believe in (apart from for themselves) maybe all these businesses need to make wages and conditions attractive enough for workers to work the jobs at a living wage and being paid $600 p/w when it costs $400 p/w to rent a house, probably doesn’t cut it.

    Somehow we have a weird corporate welfare system operating in NZ where NZ taxpayers routinely subsidise 1/3 of someones wages in benefit top ups so they can survive or get a migrant in, with the lure of getting a foot in the door of residency. Supermarkets for example used to be staffed by students, no longer when you can get desperate migrants in full time work in to do it at student rates.

    It now costs $400+ p/w for a house, because of the population growth of literally hundreds of thousands coming to NZ to get residency and work permits. And the deregulation of the housing has meant more and more leaky and substandard houses are out of action. We are not even getting to the P problem that has yet to be remedied taking out more housing. Is P safe with a wash down, increasingly it seems it is, but private practise has created a million dollar business our of the misery of P contamination. And that is taking out rental properties and making many homeless and many potential landlords unwilling to rent even if they had the houses which have been sold long ago anyway.

    New housing is rocketing in price and now too expensive to build with the lack of training of local workers, lack of enthusiasm of local workers for the pay and conditions offered, deregulation of materials so that many fail and the work needs to be redone (concrete, plumbing etc) and the so called expertise of so called skilled migrants many who can work cheap and ask no questions but low NZ productivity shows a different side of this story which is not showing a successful experiment.

  27. Matthew Whitehead 27
    24 October 2017 at 2:56 pm

    Looks like Collins is still on the Bill English train, so I expect he’s staying on as leader for some time, as Collins wouldn’t publicly back him if there were any rumblings in caucus about ditching bill.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/342248/will-english-still-lead-the-national-party

    • AB 27.1
      24 October 2017 at 3:34 pm

      Collins will want Bill or some fall-guy to take the likely 2020 defeat on the chin. Not her.

    • bwaghorn 27.2
      24 October 2017 at 3:51 pm

      when Goff got the leadership after Clarke’s reign i felt for the guy as anyone with a brain knew the nats were good for at least two terms , like labour is now, i expect english will be there as long as he wants unless the coalition looks shaky then the sharks will circle english.

      • Puckish Rogue 27.2.1
        24 October 2017 at 4:05 pm

        Agreed, unless theres a massive falling out Jacinda is there for at least two terms

    • Puckish Rogue 27.3
      24 October 2017 at 3:58 pm

      That’s good, he needs to stay at least 6 months before retiring

  28. bwaghorn 28
    24 October 2017 at 4:00 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11936301

    I actually felt excited reading this , the new govs plans

  30. Union city greens 30
    24 October 2017 at 6:26 pm

    Didn’t want to spoil the sugar coated thread with irreverence…

    So if plants are getting less nutritious because of climate change, using the pattern of dinosaurs demise, does it mean vegans and vegenauts are going to go first?

    Meat eaters for the pyrrhic win.

    • weka 30.1
      24 October 2017 at 7:39 pm

      I would guess top of the food chain will be affected too 😉 Besides, none of us will survive if the insects don’t.

      • Union city greens 30.1.1
        24 October 2017 at 7:48 pm

        True enough, and forgetting sci fi meals in a pill supplements etc. Deep freezers are still going to work so plenty of stockpiles to get through before the carnivores go by the wayside.

        Even if existence is only a few weeks more than the veges, even without nutritious vegetables, I’d be okay with lasting out a bit longer by eating my frozen greens lol

        Btw, my kid has just turned veggy, which I support as his choice and respect the decision.

  31. Union city greens 31
    24 October 2017 at 8:10 pm

    Not smug, but if it came down to it, I’d go carrion for an extra week or two. Freezers might go, but fire won’t. Char grilled is still a go’er
    The leaf eaters, probably not so much wriggle room.

  32. greywarshark 32
    24 October 2017 at 9:12 pm

    Interested in whether we can afford it all? Read Bryan Gould. He has about four entries on our finances, with similar titles. It is as if he wanted to make the point so much that he changed each title to have a different impact on a reader with a viewpoint that matched.
    http://www.bryangould.com/why-does-the-left-so-often-disappoint/

    And David Seymour. What a laugh. How come he gets treated seriously and Winston often is not.

    The Super Fund is being reinstated. Seymour said it was the wrong priority.

    “Household debt is the Greek problem that New Zealand faces. We need to actually get that under control. I think we should be cutting taxes and running less of a surplus in order to give some relief to households,” he said.

    The trouble is that NZ households would probably spend all the reduced taxes.
    In the year ending September we went on 2.79 million overseas trips, up 253,000.
    That doesn’t indicate people holding back and paying off debt.

    And the latest annual net migration figures were mostly driven by non-NZ citizens.
    This from Business in nelsonmail.co.nz (Fairfax have closed the century old building and its new, forward looking addition and now seems to be only on-line and not every day I think. I got the news around my frozens.)

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.