Open mike 27/04/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 27th, 2022 - 52 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

52 comments on “Open mike 27/04/2022 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Poission 1
    27 April 2022 at 8:26 am

    Gazprom issued warning to Poland gas supplies will be cut from Wednesday,after failure to pay for supplies in Russian currency.

    https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1519021325389602817?cxt=HHwWgoC5oZ320pQqAAAA

  2. Pataua4life 2
    27 April 2022 at 8:30 am

    Just finishing reading the "daily review" comments from last night.

    A good debate with valid points on both sides.

    Congrats to all who participated.

  3. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 3
    27 April 2022 at 8:41 am

    Another 2 Russian generals reportedly killed in the Ukraine! Making a total of 10!

    There's something seriously wrong with the command structure of the Russian armed forces!

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    27 April 2022 at 8:55 am

    Bomber reports AUT cancelling free speech:

    Daphna Whitmore is a staunch socialist feminist who was discussing the insanity of banning feminist critiques of the trans movement, here’s the description of the event…

    Join us for a discussion about free speech in the context of often polarising transgender-gender-critical feminism debate.

    Daphna was the plaintiff in Whitmore v Palmerston North City Council, which saw the Palmerston North library forced to honour a booking for the feminist group Speak Up For Women. Speak Up For Women booked the library for a public meeting to discuss their concerns about amendments to the Births, Deaths, Marriages and Relationships Registration Act. After initially accepting the booking, the library later cancelled, saying it would only host a debate where ‘all views could be heard’. Speak up For Women applied for interim relief, which was granted, forcing the library to honour the booking. Justice Gerald Nation held that the Council’s decision to cancel the event ‘involved a serious failure to recognise the BORA rights of Speak Up For Women and its members.’

    So, what lessons can we learn from this episode? Is it ever appropriate to limit free speech in public venues?

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/04/27/free-speech-alert-aut-university-disgracefully-cancel-feminist-event-on-campus/

    AUT is New Zealand's third largest university in terms of total student enrolment, with approximately 29,100 students enrolled across three campuses in Auckland. I was seriously impressed to discover that its wiki contains no section on governance!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_University_of_Technology

    Perhaps the thing governs itself?? You know, on autopilot, like an amoeba. Anyway, we don't know how to find out who did the cancelling. This operation is clearly a serious contender for the Evasion of Accountability & Responsibility Excellence Award, and Putin ought to take note of how they do it. Except that their magic invisibility screen is so damn good his spooks probably can't penetrate it.

    • Visubversa 4.1
      27 April 2022 at 9:25 am

      There is a strident Trans Rights Activist on the staff of AUT. Any deviation from the required beliefs is protested.

    • weka 4.2
      27 April 2022 at 9:58 am

      FSU say that the reason AUT gave was incomplete paperwork. Wish FSU would publish everything and make it transparent.

      • Dennis Frank 4.2.1
        27 April 2022 at 11:13 am

        incomplete paperwork

        A standard method of defense employed by bureaucrats since time immemorial.

        Wish FSU would publish everything and make it transparent.

        Incompetence. They ought to put it here:

        https://www.fsu.nz/news

        I mean, really, this is elementary. If they're too busy, put a one-liner there asking for volunteers to do it!

        Their Academic Freedom Poll Results are from 1,266 respondents. That's a goodly portion of the whole, methinks. However their link onsite only appears when you hover your cursor over the title. Bad design.

        Visitors scanning the page will wonder why the title appears over a huge blank space (as I did) and think they forgot to write text to explain it! Get media savvy, dudes. Think how eyeballs work! And there's also this here org from olden times:

        https://nzccl.org.nz/

        Freedom of thought, expression, and action, and the protection of these rights from government interference or restriction.

        • Anker 4.2.1.1
          27 April 2022 at 1:56 pm

          If the "paperwork is incomplete" sure that is easily remeded……..Re schedule the metting and complete the paper work in time! Too easy.

          Or else take the b….ards to court and sue the pants off them.

          Surprized more others on this site aren't up in arms about this.

  5. Tiger Mountain 5
    27 April 2022 at 9:16 am

    Have to support this post from Dennis. Freedom of speech, assembly and association should be upheld by us all.

    I do personally draw the line at open Nazis though, others may disagree of course on that.

    • weka 5.1
      27 April 2022 at 9:57 am

      this is the other problem. There's a whole Grand Canyon between GCFs and Nazis, but the cancelculture bros want to make out they are both a threat to society and the same degree of threat.

      There's a good examination of dynamics and tactics used in this piece about email pronouns.

      https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2022/04/26/grammar-and-grievance/

      • Adrian Thornton 5.1.1
        27 April 2022 at 4:53 pm

        Thanks for that link weka…it was a really interesting piece. I will send it to my daughter to read, she has been negotiating her way through that minefield at various Art Schools she has been attending….by the sounds of it, some of those institutions have been very heavily mined!

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          27 April 2022 at 9:47 pm

          it's pretty intense out there. I'm so glad I don't work or study in places where the war is happening.

  6. Anker 6
    27 April 2022 at 9:39 am
    • Yes a feminist Marxist being shut down. Outrageous that AUT did this. This of course will not be reported in the msm who are complicit in the shutting down of debate on gender ideology.
    • SUFW is a group populated by mostly labour/green voters who have worked hard on progressive causes.
  7. Molly 7
    27 April 2022 at 11:09 am

    Reading this personal account from an older TiM, and thinking about the echo chambers we can create in our online interactions, I wonder how IRL we can counteract those limited perspectives.

    He talks about "surviving testosterone poisoning" and his belief in the unavoidable monstrous nature of men. A disturbing read for anyone. Such a limited and damaging view of the possibilities and realities of men, and the contributions they can make in the world. (I'll leave discussion of his understanding of 'feminists' and 'toxic masculinity' for another time, while acknowledging the damage that the interpretations that he had created for him, and continues to create for society).

    https://cutdowntree.substack.com/p/purification-rites?s=r

    "When I connected to the internet, I was inundated with messages about the violence of maleness. This wasn't just "toxic masculinity"–I saw feminists saying all masculinity was toxic, that all men were rapists, all men were oppressors, all men should be killed. As a white man, I was directly responsible for all of the oppression experienced by women and people of color. I was fourteen years old and had never been in a fight in my life or said a racist or misogynistic word to anyone, but I believed that the circumstances of my birth made me a monster. "

    This categorisaton of oneself as beyond the pale, is mirrored in the account from a TiF detransitioner:

    https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name?utm_source=url&s=r

    On Tumblr, the situation was such that any claim to being “oppressed” would accumulate social credibility, while any unfortunate “privileged” status was justification for verbal abuse. As a “privileged” person, you were expected to constantly grovel and apologize, you had no right to speak on any issue involving the group you were “oppressing”, and you could not object in any way to any mistreatment hurled against you because of your race, gender, or sexuality.

    I found myself in a bit of a double bind. On one hand, I had found what felt like the perfect group of friends who understood me on an intuitive level, who I was able to talk to openly about the things I liked and made me “weird” in real life, but on the other hand I was a “cishet white girl” in an environment where that was one of the worst things to be. Since Tumblr users are mostly biological females, the “cishet white girl” holds the position of most privileged and therefore most inherently bad group. In this climate, you are made to feel guilty and responsible for all the horrors and atrocities in the world. No hardship you could possibly go through could ever be as bad as the prejudice and genocide POC and LGBT people face every. Single. Day. Insert clap emoji. LGBT people and POC can’t even walk out of their houses without being murdered by cishet white people just like you!

    The first author retains an admirable amount of detail of the thinking processes that were taking place during his childhood and youth, and gives some insight into his reasoning, emotions and reactions.

    For those interested in the topic, or at least wondering whether medicalisation should be celebrated as the only option, both pieces are worth the read. And any ensuing discussion.

    • roblogic 7.1
      27 April 2022 at 3:57 pm

      There is a general attack on masculinity in popular culture and in universities. And it’s more acute in progressive circles. Whereas the right wing tends to toxicity. It’s not like there is a shortage of good male role models, but pop culture portrays males as either brutes, oafs, or completely emasculated androgynes like BTS (the k-pop boy band).

      Our culture is failing its boys. Elevating all sorts of other identities and lifestyles. But the reality for boys is that they need a father figure, a stable home, and a more active education rather than Ritalin.

      • Molly 7.1.1
        27 April 2022 at 4:14 pm

        I don't disagree, but I believe that we are failing both boys and girls in the messages we are sending to them. The fact that messages are amplified for individuals in online echo-chambers, makes it more difficult to ensure that more diverse voices are heard and reduction in community real life contacts with people, might also narrow perspectives.

        It is the expectation of particular roles that causes damage for both boys and girls. Alongside a rejection and criticism of the traditional masculine stereotype, there is a rejection of the traditional feminine caretaker. It is assumed that both are regressive models, rather than it is the expectation that only those models are acceptable that is regressive.

        I thought the first article covered the points you make really well.

  8. Molly 8
    27 April 2022 at 11:24 am

    Does anyone here know the relationship of the sisters to the victim?

    News articles seem to be completely devoid of details.

    Te Puna child killer: Woman pleads guilty to murder of 5-year-old Malachi Subecz

  9. Stephen D 9
    27 April 2022 at 11:33 am

    National are going to have to be very careful how they respond to David Parker’s tax information gathering initiative. Labour are framing it to find out if all New Zealanders are paying their fair share of tax. The suspicion is that the top few percent are not.

    Should National be too heavy handed in opposing the legislation, and it’s findings, they stand to be accused of only wanting to look after the rich. We know that is the case, but I’m sure it’s not the way they want to be portrayed to the wider electorate.

    • Robert Guyton 9.1
      27 April 2022 at 12:00 pm

      Good times!

    • tc 9.2
      27 April 2022 at 1:06 pm

      Without a generic CGT they probably have affairs structured for capital gain i.e. not taxed, totally legit.

      I'd like to see then skewered on the tax havens they 'allowed' as kiwis need a reminder as to nationals true MO.

    • Siobhan McCormack 9.3
      27 April 2022 at 1:59 pm

      I very much doubt they are that worried. We all know people (National, Labour and Green Party voters) avoiding tax either purposefully through Trusts and what not, or more under the radar through simple accountancy sleigh of hand. National voters are people who do this with a bold sense of entitlement, or, more sadly, people who simply dream of being in a position to "claim their entitlements". Its rather like capital gains tax, or a meaningful drop in house prices, you would think people would have some desire for change alongside some level of shame for their profiteering …but they simply don't.

  10. Dennis Frank 10
    27 April 2022 at 1:03 pm

    God willed that a statuesque head of his daughter be found. A farmer in Gaza found it, and thanked God:

    Palestinian archaeologists say that the head of the Canaanite deity, Anat, dates back 4,500 years… The 22cm-high (8.7 in) carving clearly shows the face of the goddess wearing a serpent crown. "We found it by chance. It was muddy and we washed it with water," said farmer Nidal Abu Eid, who came across the head while cultivating his field.

    "We realised that it was a precious thing, but we didn't know it was of such great archaeological value," he told the BBC. "We thank God, and we are proud that it stayed in our land, in Palestine, since the Canaanite times." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61228553

    Wikipedia: "In the Baal Cycle texts, Anat appears as a war-goddess, initially called upon by her father El". You may recall this original name of God the father from Genesis in the Bible (he renamed himself YHVH later to Moses).

    In contemporary Israel, "Anat" is a common female first name… Philologist Anat Bechar, who herself bears the name, wrote: "The Biblical Shamgar was a rather minor and obscure character, and of his mother Anat we know nothing but her name. We do know that it was the name of a goddess in a Semitic pantheon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anat

    Obvious explanation of ignorance about God's daughter is cultural transmission in a patriarchy. El was creator deity for various ancient semitic tribes, not just Hebrews & Canaanites. Interesting that freedom of choice prevailed in ancient times too. Genesis:

    the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    God seems to have had a family and one naturally wonders who he had it with. Theologians have exhibited a tendency in the past to assume God wasn't actually telling the truth about this when instructing the authors of Genesis. Usage of metaphor was implied, as if to suggest that the Bible is not actually literally true. One suspects that fundamentalists get itchy trigger fingers when confronted by such theologians!

    • roblogic 10.1
      27 April 2022 at 3:50 pm

      A sincere faith in God can accept the existence of mysteries and unresolved questions. Only a fundamentalist demands certainty (which leaves no room for faith)

  11. Grey Area 11
    27 April 2022 at 1:26 pm

    Govt launches new mask exemption card

    So will people who want the new exemption from mask wearing card have to prove they have some relevant condition that makes it difficult/harmful for them to wear a mask?

    The fact the card can be obtained online or over the phone suggests a no me. The non-maskers will likely be able to continue to get a card they don't qualify for and which now cannot be questioned.

    That's if they even bother. All along some have been able to say they have an exemption but as I understand could not be compelled to prove it. For some it's only been about them.

    I realise there is genuine need to be exempt for some but basing the system on honesty and trust in NZ in a pandemic was always a mistake.

    I always felt that enforcement of mask-wearing should have been stricter and the government should not have left it to businesses. If people needed an exemption they could have rung their medical centre and a practice nurse could have easily confirmed any pre-existing condition from their medical record.

    Then it should have been no mask = prove your exemption or no entry. Simple.

    • Whispering Kate 11.1
      27 April 2022 at 2:11 pm

      Coincidence you say this Grey Area. I have just come in from a morning op shopping with a friend. First time I have been out for some discretionary retail therapy for a long time. Suitably masked up with my friend we wandered through a series of charity shops all clumped in one area together. I came across a young woman about 19 years old unmasked. I said to her politely "why are you not wearing a mask", she promptly opened her phone and showed me a an exemption cert. I thanked her and wandered on. She joined a group of a Mum and a Dad and a son of about the 16 years.

      I chatted with my friend and we concurred that it was highly unlikely the entire family was exempt and what a farce it was. Anybody could replicate a message on their phone and be buggered about everybody else's health. It really upsets me that pockets of the population are so thoughtless about other people and their own health concerns. This family looked pretty hale and hearty to me, not autoimmune compromised or struggling with poor health. They followed us through all of the op shops haunting us with their bare faces – typical.

      Just my contribution to my day out in the big bad world for some time now.

      • Whispering Kate 11.1.1
        27 April 2022 at 2:31 pm

        Forgot to say the entire family were not masked which made it pretty odd that they were all kosher with exemptions.

        • Grey Area 11.1.1.1
          27 April 2022 at 4:17 pm

          Ha. I was going mention my regular anecdotal observation of what appear to be family groups in Bunnings, all unmasked. Curious I've thought. Funny how they all must have conditions precluding mask use.

    • Molly 11.2
      27 April 2022 at 2:23 pm

      Woman attending an appointment in the Superclinic a couple of months ago, responded aggressively to the receptionist offering a mask. She neither offered proof of her stated exemption or was asked to provide it by staff.

      A good proportion of the women in the waiting room were there for chemotherapy, and so, immunocompromised.

      • Rosemary McDonald 11.2.1
        28 April 2022 at 8:46 am

        Having done the neutropeanic thing back in 2010 with Peter, I get the necessity to deploy as many infection preventative measures as are available until one's immune system regains some level of function. I recall that there was more concern about the patient catching a gastro bug…although it was a chest infection that nearly felled Himself.

        The immunocompromised person wearing a mask signals to others that this particular person requires an extra degree of care. Of course, in a hospital …and especially in an oncology setting… wearing a mask when there is widespread community transmission is a no brainer.

        Having said that...research strongly suggests that both the surgical masks and the N95 masks are of limited effectiveness…

        The study, published in JAMA, found that surgical masks were as effective as N95 respirators at preventing the flu, which is to say, not all that effective because, of the 446 nurses who took part in this study, nearly one in four (24%) in the surgical mask group still got the flu as did 23% of those who wore the N95 respirator. And, because both groups wore masks, it’s impossible to say how they would have fared compared with not wearing a mask at all.

        This piece from, The Conversation, quite sensibly states that those folk infectious with a serious respiratory disease, such as the flu, are most likely feeling so crook they are unlikely to be out and about spreading Te Virus.

        Of course in these Covid times, with the Pfizer product having limited effectiveness at preventing infection and transmission and reasonable effectiveness at reducing symptoms for a short time after being administered, the chances of infectious people feeling well enough to be out and about because the jab is 'working' so well is higher.

        So taking all the precautions to hand to prevent catching Covid if you might be more at risk of serious outcomes is not such a silly idea….even if wearing a mask is largely signalling to others that the wearer is vulnerable.

  13. Dennis Frank 13
    27 April 2022 at 3:00 pm

    Maori as paragons of democracy? Looks like it's there in the tradition:

    In 1857, Francis Dart Fenton wrote, “No system of government that the world ever saw can be more democratic than that of the Maoris. The chief alone has no power. The whole tribe deliberate on every subject, not only politically on such as are of public interest, but even judicially they hold their ‘komitis’ on every private quarrel. In ordinary times the vox populi determines every matter, both internal and external. No individual enjoys influence or exercises power, unless it originates with the mass and is expressly or tacitly conferred by them.”

    From the very early days of European settlement, efforts were made to establish structures of governance based on Western models, although as Busby observed, “It was . . . extremely difficult to get the Chiefs to separate themselves from their connexions, and to form themselves into anything like a regular assembly”.

    So chiefly mana came from a sense of being rooted in the social matrix. Hierarchy as a privilege system had to be foisted onto them by the Treaty. That changes my view considerably! More organic social process than I thought.

    Under Te Tiriti, the rangatira were entitled to participate as equals on the Executive Council and the Legislative Council appointed by the governor, but these groups had no Māori members. When the first House of Representatives was established in 1853, a requirement that electors were male land owners excluded most Māori men, who had use rights to land through whakapapa and occupation, not as individual property. Under ancestral tikanga, Māori women had rights to leadership and land, but these were also disregarded.

    Most recently, a Crown requirement that ‘Post-settlement Governance Entities’ be established at the iwi level to receive Treaty settlements and a redefinition of taonga as ‘property’ has seen a further erosion of tikanga, alongside the imposition of Western governance models on kin groups, and this has often been divisive.

    Building fake bridges across the cultural divide is poor governance. Therefore I wish Labour success in its attempt to provide an authentic alternative.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/anne-salmond-tiriti-and-democracy-part-4-unite-and-rule

    • weka 13.1
      27 April 2022 at 3:56 pm

      Kei te pai. This would forgive a lot of other sins.

      https://twitter.com/lisametofox/status/1519035925627805696

    • roblogic 13.2
      27 April 2022 at 4:06 pm

      There’s probably some symbolism in the old wooden bridge that connects the Waitangi Treaty Grounds with Paihia. It’s. a one-way bridge with no traffic signals that is often the site of jams in summer as wealthy Aucklanders vie to tow their massive boats across. Meanwhile the construction of the bridge caused the lower reaches of the Waitangi River to silt up and its once beautiful beaches to become covered with mangroves. The signs prohibit people from jumping off but I have been ignoring that for years!

  14. Jimmy 14
    27 April 2022 at 3:08 pm

    Looks like Kiwi citizens and residents not allowed back in the country have won a case against the government.

    Grounded Kiwis fight in the High Court ends in success – NZ Herald

    • Temp ORary 14.1
      27 April 2022 at 5:26 pm

      Hard to know what's what until we see the specific details, Jimmy. I saw the story on Stuff (not willing to pay for the NZH), which seemed a bit vague:

      The exact orders the judge will make have yet to be decided. The parties have 14 days to agree on the words of a declaration, or the judge will decide it at a later date…

      Minister of Covid-19 Response, Chris Hipkins, said the judgment upheld several parts of the MIQ system, including from mid-October when those already in New Zealand became infected and their close contacts were able to isolate at home.

      MIQ was always “the least worst option” to help keep out Covid-19 and stop it spreading.

      “We have long acknowledged the difficult trade-offs we’ve had to make in our Covid-19 response to save lives and the effects of those decisions on all New Zealanders, particularly those living abroad.”

      The judge’s decision was being carefully considered, he said…

      The judge said there were no easy answers but middle ground was available so, for instance, a points system could have operated for New Zealanders who said their return was unreasonably delayed, or to change the number of rooms available for emergency allocation.

      The virtual lobby system was more appropriate for people who wanted to return but could not show they’d been unreasonably delayed.

      The changes that were made were “at the margins” and not enough to eliminate unjustified delays.

      The judge decided that the restrictions were not lawful as a justified limitation on the right to enter New Zealand in a free and democratic society.

      However, she also said a voucher system was justified and the isolation periods were reasonable and proportionate.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127890187/grounded-kiwis-win-miq-was-a-lottery-when-better-options-were-available-judge-decides

      Hipkins'; "The judge’s decision was being carefully considered", sounds like the government's lawyers may be considering an appeal, depending on the final wording of the judge's orders and declarations. I guess we'll know more in a fortnight or so.

    • Louis 14.2
      27 April 2022 at 5:32 pm

      From your link Jimmy. "We welcome the Court's determination that the requirement for returnees to undergo MIQ was lawful and was not an unjustified infringement of New Zealanders' right to come home," he said.

      "The Court also ruled that the requirement for people entering the country to isolate was lawful and was reasonable and proportionate even when, from mid-October 2021, those in the community who had the virus and their close contacts were able to self-isolate at home."

      Hipkins did accept the court's ruling that the virtual lobby system said the Government infringed on New Zealand citizens' right to enter the country.

      "We are carefully considering the Court's decision," he said.

    • Ad 14.3
      27 April 2022 at 5:42 pm

      The Crown needs to appeal this both to Appeal and Supreme Court levels.

      Parliament needs to be guided by stronger BORA judgements all round in preparation for the next one.

  15. roblogic 15
    27 April 2022 at 3:43 pm

    Beloved old fossil Joe Bennett writes faux pas in that bastion of progressive thought, the Otago Daily Times

    https://twitter.com/manidunlop/status/1519117924153319426?s=21&t=u9XolMmlpXjtpT8W7G_zCQ

    Dear old Joe is listening to the wrong station. He can hear the Queen’s English as she is spoke on the BBC (oops they have presenters from all their colonies with weird accents too!). This is Te Reo Irirangi o Aotearoa, i.e. Radio New Zealand, which represents us.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.