Open mike 31/05/2014

233 comments on “Open mike 31/05/2014 ”

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1. karol 1

   31 May 2014 at 8:30 am

   David Fisher’s article today on John Banks is worth a read.

   Banks, with the aid of Michelle Boag focused strongly on raising oodles of money for Banks 2010 mayoral campaign – and still failed.

   Banks sees himself as being devoted to “public service”. I guess he means it. But for me it’s a big contradiction to perform public service in the interests of the powerful corporate world.

   Then there’s is other supporters – Quax, Cameron Brewer, etc.

   The article ends with a run down on the events leading up to the court case. I didn’t realise that Trevor Mallard was responsible for bringing the funding issue to light.
   • Ad 1.1

     31 May 2014 at 9:36 am

     Now replace the name John Banks with the names Kim DotCom and Laila Harre, run the whole analogue of the story, and tell me it smells right.

     Kim DotCom and John Banks together are what Chris Cairns is to Cricket.
     • karol 1.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 9:48 am

       Laila Harre is nothing like Banks.

       She has a long history of working for workers, unions, young people and those on low incomes. She doesn’t have a history of chasing the dollar or supporting the interests of powerful corporates. As far as I’m aware she hasn’t done any behind the scenes, dodgy deals. The deal with the IP, and KDC looks totally transparent.

       Banks tried to hide his funding from wealthy backers.
       • cricklewood 1.1.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 10:22 am

         To be fair to Banks, Len also hid his donations from wealthy backers he just did it in a legal manor by using a trust.
         I dont see a place in our political system for anonymous donations of any size bigger than say $1000. Preferably I would also limit donations to natural persons only.
         • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 6:52 pm

           He declared sky city didnt he?
           • cricklewood 1.1.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 7:10 pm

             Yes he did but their were $580000 of donations put through the trust. I believe Sky City had made it clear they were donating to both parties.
             To be clear I dont support Banks in what he did and im not trying to make light of it. I just have a severe distaste for anonymity in terms of political funding. This goes for all sides and I was extremely disappointed to find David C had used a trust to hide donations during the leadership campaign.
             I do give some credit to Banks that when Kim Dotcom called he didnt do a McCully.
             • Clemgeopin …

               31 May 2014 at 7:25 pm

               I do give some credit to Banks that when Kim Dotcom called he didnt do a McCully.

               Can you explain what is that about? or a link? I am curious about both aspects, Banks-KDC, as well as McCully
       • newsense 1.1.1.2

         1 June 2014 at 12:04 am

         Here here.

         So it is wrong for the farmers to have a political arm to their industry and fund it so they can have their way with our water and get it democratically mandated by central government?

         So why shouldn’t the internet industry be able to run a company or two in NZ and fund a party who campaigns for them to be free from US intimidation?

         does make you a mite uneasy though.

         But the main thing to start with is that it is completely up front. Even more so than the farmer’s party.
     • felix 1.1.2

       31 May 2014 at 9:53 am

       I don’t get it either, Ad. What are the similarities between Banks’ campaign and IMP?
     • Morrissey 1.1.3

       31 May 2014 at 10:07 am

       What a foolish and ignorant thing to say. Do you support incest, like your exciting new-look leader does?
       • felix 1.1.3.1

         31 May 2014 at 10:14 am

         That’s a horrible thing to say Moz. You shouldn’t accuse people of supporting ACT.
         • Morrissey 1.1.3.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 10:16 am

           Sorry. That was unacceptable.

           I withdraw and apologize.
     • greywarbler 1.1.4

       31 May 2014 at 10:40 am

       Kim DotCom doesn’t have a religious aura round him, he is more the successful businessman aura. John Banks, did present himself as a religious man, a man better than his shameful parents, someone who would adopt a child and give it a home, a rather noble man. I think he had successful business ventures such as a restaurant and was a well-known businessman.

       DotCom is more like Key, has made a mint in the commercial, symbolic world. Key has traded with the credits accrued by other citizens and players in the financial system many of which have been dodgy dealings – the derivatives and other financial instruments that had spurious legitimacy.

       Dotcom has gained credits from trading in pictures and sounds produced by others in a dodgy way, instead of the trade being in financial symbols as with Key, he has used the mass distribution of people’s creative output.

       Has Dotcom paid anything to the artists or owners of that content? They are not satisfied anyway with this practice. We have cases of people who have lost all their savings/credits in NZ and the world through deliberate chicanery by financial entitities, yet those who have carried out this chicanery are not pursued to the ends of the world on behalf of the losers. It is different when the corporates who are often robbers, are themselves robbed of part of what they claim as theirs.
       • Molly 1.1.4.1

         1 June 2014 at 9:26 am

         Not an apologist for copyright theft by any means but consider:
         1. Megaupload acted as a depository bank for uploaded content – cloud storage – the equivalent of those storage units that you can rent out for your overflow stuff,
         2. Youtube, vimeo and every other similar internet service did exactly the same thing,
         I never used Megaupload, but from what I recall – unlike Youtube – you could not search on the site for others content – so he provided the storage lockers and the users put into them stolen goods, and then created copies of the keys which they shared.

         Why then go after only Megaupload?
         – one individual owns it – easy target – and guess what – the country of residence has a PM we can make jump like a circus dog – watch.
         – although Youtube does the same thing, and more efficiently – we can get income streams from it, and so as long as that happens – it’s alright to allow it to continue.

         Copyright laws are a whole other ballgame.

         As one of those pedantic people, found myself after a few years and changes in technology owning video and DVD copies of the same film. And even though those royalties to artist have been paid twice – I cannot change format of this media in a legal way to those environmentally friendlier, and space saving video files on my computer. To own a copy in this way – I am legally required to buy, at full price – yet another copy from iTunes or something similar.

         And if I was ill-advised enough to take an old home video of one of my children dancing to the Wiggles, and have the music playing in the background and uploaded it to Youtube. I am breaching copyright – along with millions of others who have copyrighted images in their videos. Even the Happy Birthday song is copyrighted, so any uploaded video that does not have permission for public broadcast breaches copyright.

         Intellectual property and copyright is a convoluted and interesting discussion.
         • greywarbler 1.1.4.1.1

           1 June 2014 at 12:46 pm

           @ Molly
           That copyright business. It just reminds me of how money had to be paid out because someone found in a modern song the notes for very old Australian children’s song about a kookaburra. So large sums had to be paid out many years later.

           It is interesting how there are so many scavengers in legal? offices searching for titbits to sue about like the old peasant miners going through mine tailings for flecks of gold.
     • meconism 1.1.5

       31 May 2014 at 8:22 pm

       Chris Cairns is nothing to cricket match fixing, if that is your cheap attack line. A couple of scurrilous accusations while Cairns has not been charged by anyone, never mind convicted of anything. It is completely scurrilous to insinuate there is anything wrong with the way Cairns has conducted himself.
   • Tracey 1.2

     31 May 2014 at 6:57 pm

     Not one mention of the fees he took, first as executive director, but said he knew noting of hujlichs shenanigans. The painting of banks as having integrity has to be seen in relation to an ingrained belief that if you made money in business you are a success. Then see it in light of keys lies and deceptions, the okayness of collins behaviour and the bar for integrity is quite low.

     My partner believes the judge will rule in favour of banks because judges go to the same cocktail parties… I have more faith than that, but i wonder how widely that view is held.
2. amirite 2

   31 May 2014 at 8:48 am

   John Armstrong calls the Internet Party “Cult of personality”, what about the biggest cult of personality party in NZ, National?

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11264858
   • phillip ure 2.1

     31 May 2014 at 8:55 am

     the general tone of that piece from armstrong tho’..

     ..is that it is time people stopped laughing at this idea of a mana party/internet party hook-up..

     ..that it is time to take it/them seriously..

     ..and he gets a couple of good lines away..

     “..Dotcom was upfront about his $3 million donation.

     But that may have been a bit of mischief designed to send a shiver down the spines of other parties struggling to raise money for an election now less than four months away.

     The collective gulp from across the political spectrum suggested he had succeeded..”

     (see what i mean..?..)
     • phillip ure 2.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 9:05 am

       and rightwing herald editorial-writer roughan (under his own name) has had a bit of a whine/whinge..

       ..and about all he can come up with..

       ..is that harawira/harre/dotcom are ‘too old’..to appeal to younger viewers..(!)

       ..roghan clearly is yet ‘to get’..

       ..that it isn’t about age..it’s about ideas…

       ..and that as far as his political ‘ideas’ are concerned..

       ..that neo-liberal/rand-ite/planet-fucking rightwing-revolution we have endured for the past 30 yrs..

       ..roughan clearly does not realise he is pushing a sunset-industry..
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 12:21 pm

         and about all he can come up with..

         ..is that harawira/harre/dotcom are ‘too old’..to appeal to younger viewers..

         That’s just the new RWNJ meme. I saw it first yesterday from Hooton.

         and that as far as his political ‘ideas’ are concerned..

         ..that neo-liberal/rand-ite/planet-fucking rightwing-revolution we have endured for the past 30 yrs..

         And that they failed spectacularly.
         • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 1:36 pm

           do they have email-chains..?

           ..so their messages are co-ordinated/concerted..?

           ..or do they just read farrar and slater every morn..?

           ..is key passing on ‘the word’ thru them now..?
           • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 1:44 pm

             Possibly a C/T group of the Most Important People (sarc) such as Hooton and DPF where the memes are bred and then disseminated through Twitter and blogs for the rest of the RWNJs to pick up.

             😈 😆
   • karol 2.2

     31 May 2014 at 10:02 am

     Armstrong’s piece is a mixed bag, but does take IMP seriously. He, rightly in my view, states that the difference between Bradford and Harawira’s decisions on IMP, is one of principle vs pragmatism – without skewing the difference to attack either person.

     I do agree that there is a bit of a cult of personality re- KDC. And such personality-focused politics are something I associate with the era of “neoliberalism” – something I want to see an end to. It distracts from the policies and performance of political parties, leaders and governments.
     • Bearded Git 2.2.1

       31 May 2014 at 11:44 am

       +1 Karol and +1+1 Phillip.

       The main point is that the IMP has been dominating the MSM for the entire week. Genius. This is also likely to be the case in the campaign-the MSM simply can’t help themselves. This translates into votes.

       Meanwhile who out their beyond the beltway knows who Jamie White is?
       • phillip ure 2.2.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 1:41 pm

         and what is the name of their candidate..?

         ..that serial jump-out-from-behind-hedges-at-people fellow..?

         ..they have kept him well hidden since that hedging-outing..?

         ..i actually remember him being somewhere where an impromptu political discussion/debate was taking place..

         ..from memory..all he did was gurn-along…

         ..an altogether un-preposessing-individual..

         ..i was very surprised to see his face pop-up as the best and brightest those shiney-eyed actites could dredge up..

         ..whoar..!

         ..holy shallow-talent-pool..!..batman..!
     • weka 2.2.2

       31 May 2014 at 11:48 am

       Karol, can you give some examples of the personality cult stuff?

       I’m curious to see how this plays out, but I notice that while KDC’s ego is still in play on his twitter account, he hasn’t been at the forefront with the IMP stuff in the media (apart from how others are putting him there).
       • Colonial Viper 2.2.2.1

         31 May 2014 at 11:56 am

         I think you can be vey confident that Mana and IP officials have had many discussions about keeping KDC at a very long arms length from both parties candidate selection, policy development, etc. Or even excluding him outright.

         KDC’s campaigning for IMP is likely going to be heavily limited to the one space he has significant appeal – online eg twitter, gamer forums etc. I would certainly not expect to see him anywhere near IMP campaign ads on TV for instance, as that could prove risky and damaging due to events outside of IMPs control (extradition etc).
         • weka 2.2.2.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 12:02 pm

           That’s what I would expect too CV, and I note that KDC is now off the IP website’s FP and has been replaced with Harre.

           I’m sure the right, and the MSM will keep up with the “it’s all about KDC” meme for as long as they can.
           • karol 2.2.2.1.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 12:37 pm

             So far the Internet Party has been very much about Kim Dotcom. He was very much present at the announcement of Harre as leader.

             I’m pretty sure I read somewhere recently that KDC would be making appearances at election campaign events. But I can’t find that anywhere.

             If you click on “policy forum” in right of the banner to the Internet Party’s website, a Hello Bubble to the right, carries a message and welcome from Kim Dotcom.

             Oh, actually the banner is a slide show, and one of the images on it is of KDCand an Obama look-a-like and a video of the KDC saga.
             • Colonial Viper …

               31 May 2014 at 12:51 pm

               So far the Internet Party has been very much about Kim Dotcom.

               I think that had to be the case as the IP was his concept. He has had to drive the organisation and set up, up to this point, and they had no one else (candidates, leader etc) selected to front up.

               Oh, actually the banner is a slide show, and one of the images on it is of KDCand an Obama look-a-like and a video of the KDC saga.

               What happened to KDC in the last couple of years is very instructive in terms of graphically illustrating the raison d’être of the IP.

               Yes, there’s a lot of reasons not to like KDC and to suspect that his motives in setting up the IP are less than completely altruistic. However, he’s also stepped up and figured out a very smart way to push this Tory government out of power and to give Mana a fighting chance at growing to the next level of influence.

               KDC and what has been done to him has cred in certain parts of the tech and online community. So I expect that yes he will leverage that to promote the IMP, but I also expect that from now on his involvement will be limited to that for political risk management reasons.

               Well, if IMP leadership are smart about it, that is.
               • Populuxe1 …

                 31 May 2014 at 6:44 pm

                 So the guy initiate and funds the party, appears all over the party promotions and information, and yet is only a peripheral case study.

                 If mental gymnastics was an olympic sport you’d be Mary Lou Retton.
             • weka …

               31 May 2014 at 12:57 pm

               Sure Karol, I’m not saying he’s disappeared. I’m saying that it looks like the IP are intentionally shifting away from it being all about him. The banner is what was there before, but they now have Harre on the FP instead of KDC. As I said, I will be curious to see how this progresses. It would be a mistake for sure to keep KDC up front, but I doubt much would be gained from having him invisible.

               “So far the Internet Party has been very much about Kim Dotcom. He was very much present at the announcement of Harre as leader.”

               Well, given he set the party up and they’re only just getting others on board, it’s hard to see how it couldn’t have been focussed on him. From the things I’ve been looking at in the last half week, it’s mostly been about Harre. To me what’s important is what happens next.
               • karol …

                 31 May 2014 at 1:50 pm

                 Agree with most of what you and CV commented above. I was replying to the point about the IP not being about KDC – ie focused on him as a personality. He has withdrawn somewhat. I expect his persona to still be somewhere in the mix for some time.

                 How the IMP will turn out is unknown to me. It’s as likely that Harre, Minto, Sykes, Harawira et al will influence the party’s politics and KDC himself, as vice versa.

                 I am very much not a KDC supporter, nor a supporter of how the US & NZ authorities have targetted him… the arrest, charges, attempted extrdition, etc.

                 I do respect the politics of Mana and Harre.
                 • Colonial Viper …

                   31 May 2014 at 2:56 pm

                   How the IMP will turn out is unknown to me.

                   The cynic in me would say that these arrangements do not tend to not last, and the longevity of brand new start up political parties is pretty miserable…

                   On the upside, having serious money and serious experience onboard might make all the difference.
                   • weka …

                     31 May 2014 at 3:00 pm

                     I’m not worried about that to be honest. Even if the IP doesn’t survive long term, it will still have been worthwhile to get rid of KeyNACT, and to boost Mana. I guess the risk is that if they fall over in the first term they do it badly and take others with them.
                   • karol …

                     31 May 2014 at 3:03 pm

                     weka, it will also be a plus if IMP can help engage the politically disengaged, and get more people voting.
                   • cricklewood …

                     31 May 2014 at 6:06 pm

                     @ weka, on the flipside it may just open pandoras box… united future and the conservatives could easily do the same. The Nats and Maori parties endorse Kelvin Davis and the public at large get generally pissed with mmp and its machinations… it aint all roses…
                   • Clemgeopin …

                     31 May 2014 at 6:40 pm

                     @cricklewood.

                     That is an interesting thought! Re Kelvin Davis, any such posture by National or Maori party won’t make any difference because the combined Mana and Labour electoral support to Hone far outweighs Nat/Maori support to Davis.

                     On the other hand, Dunne/Cons alliance while theoretically possible, may be counter productive because many people feel uneasy about Collin’s conservative views/policies, finding them quite wacky and could actually push them away Labour or NZF.
                   • Tracey …

                     31 May 2014 at 6:46 pm

                     Like the conservative party is all about mr craig, from funding to candidacy to top of list etc….
                   • weka …

                     31 May 2014 at 6:52 pm

                     “@ weka, on the flipside it may just open pandoras box… united future and the conservatives could easily do the same”

                     Why would that be a problem?
                   • cricklewood …

                     31 May 2014 at 7:22 pm

                     @Clem, looking at Kelvins facebook page I doubt he will swallow that all his comments regarding Hone and Dotcom point to a full on electorate campaign. Some of the imagery is straight off whaleoil.
                     Looking at public comments from Hipkins Goff and Davis this has potential to split labour which could also be extremely detrimental to the left.
         • veutoviper 2.2.2.1.2

           31 May 2014 at 12:41 pm

           This video on the Herald on Thursday on the press conference of the announcement of Laila as Leader of the IP is interesting in this regard. It includes excerpts from the actual press conference plus interviews with both KDC and Laila. KDC makes it quite clear in his sit-down interview (later in the video) that he is stepping back etc.

           http://t.co/LSd8VkiC84

           Not trying to divert the conversation, but RadioNZ news on National in the early hours of their news bulletins were featuring Laila Harre socking it to John Key about his commenting on KDC’s extradition proceedings – in effect claiming that Key was trying to influence the judiciary and “had crossed the line”. (Also a warning possibly? – although it goes slightly against what she said in the above video about not getting involved in or commenting on KDC’s legal issues.) So far, no other media appear to have picked this one up, but I could be wrong.

           http://t.co/C2gGcC3Aee
           • weka 2.2.2.1.2.1

             31 May 2014 at 12:58 pm

             Thanks for that veuto, I hadn’t seen the video before.
     • bad12 2.2.3

       31 May 2014 at 1:02 pm

       Bradford and ”principles”, ”as a teacher at the West Auckland campus of Unitec i enjoy working closely with ex National Party MP Marilyn Waring”

       ”I ‘used’ to be a Maoist”, source is: Live interview with Sue Bradford NZHerald online,

       My view of Bradfords ”principles” is that they are ”fluid” when it suits Her, principled would have been after not winning the position of Co-leader of the Green Party to have conceded gracefully to Metiria and publicly dedicated herself to digging in for the long term good of the Party and its goals,

       ”Principled” would have been to have said of the proposed Mana/Internet alliance that She ”did not agree BUT would be digging in and working with the Party in an effort to support the long term vision of the Mana Party kaupapa”

       Without expounding upon previous exhibitions of toy tossing from Bradford in organizations that were not per se a political party, She has now tossed Her toys from two that are,

       What this smacks of is ”my way or the highway” or in a cruder form, ”me me me”,Bradford fails to accept that politics is not about the individual, ie: Her, it is about the Party….
       • Bill 2.2.3.1

         31 May 2014 at 1:38 pm

         Bradford fails to accept that politics is not about the individual, ie: Her, it is about the Party….

         Only almost agree with you there bad12. I believe you overlook perceptions of it being very much about a singular view of a ‘correct’ monolithic Party Line, ie political purity. The usual dull bullshit of authoritarian leftists in other words.
         • bad12 2.2.3.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 2:10 pm

           Bill, i agree entirely that in the previous comment above i fail to address as you so succinctly put it, ”the usual dull bullshit”,

           i have tho, in previous comments done just that with the retelling of a wee joke shared among a number of us from the unemployment rights/beneficiary activist days of the late 1980’s early 1990’s, it goes like this,

           When Sue Bradford stands and makes a point to a roomful of people they all end up nodding, 2 are nodding in agreement, the rest nodding off to sleep…
       • karol 2.2.3.2

         31 May 2014 at 1:56 pm

         Well, I have seen Bradford working at the flax roots. She is impressive working for beneficiaries, etc.

         I don’t think it’s fair to call her withdrawal from the Greens as a “toy toss”. I do think the Greens have moved towards the centre under Norman-Turei. If a party moves position to become something you don’t agree with, it seems to me to be logical to withdraw.

         I was interested to read in one of Bradbury’s recent posts that he claims to have been the one who recruited Bradford for Mana. Seems to me, she maybe wasn’t on board totally to start with.
         • bad12 2.2.3.2.1

           31 May 2014 at 2:32 pm

           Karol, point taken, i actually address what i see as the reasons/reasoning behind that apparent shift to the center in my comments over in Your Post on the Green’s policies so wont be repetitive,

           It seems to me, from your other comments above that,(and this is my opinion), Bradford lacks the ability to think things through critically vis a vis the ”long term”,

           i will not go into great detail here, but, i have been privy to Bradford and another individual organizing ”a demonstration” that in effect ”used” all those involved, from the handful of beneficiaries, to the TV news, to the Police that eventually turned up to provide the much needed drama, as a tool to gain publicity for Sue Bradford,(the guise of beneficiaries rights was of course the supposed legitimizing factor),

           i can well imagine that Bradford’s heart may not have seen Her fully ”on board” with the Mana Party kaupapa,

           My view is that She learned the particular political philosophy She engages in via a dry text and then went on to look for somewhere in society to apply that philosophy to,

           Hone and the vast majority of the Mana Party tho have that philosophy stamped into their DNA, ask most of them to explain that in something that would fit in a book and the reply i should imagine would be a big HAH???, they live it…
           • karol 2.2.3.2.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 2:50 pm

             Hmmm… that’s not my view of Bradford’s community-based actions at all. In fact, as I see it, it is just the opposite – Bradford is aiming for long term changes. Whereas party politics, especially if it is using practices mainly focused on getting elected, are more focused on short term aims. She initially came from working at the flax roots – not from some academic background.

             The way I see it, Bradford is engaged in activities that aim to develop a movement – change from the flax roots, as well as changes to the wider discourses. Party politics are probably only seen as fitting if they work towards that longer term aim.

             If you look at her two main activities since she left the Greens: her PhD on political think tanks, and her involvement with Auckland Action Against Poverty.

             AAAP’s advocacy actions with beneficiaries, as I understand it, aim to both help people now, but also to engage with communities to spread the ideas and examples of doing things differently from the status quo.

             The PhD looks like it was about seeing if something like think tanks could be developed to help feed new ideas, policies, etc into the mainstream discourses. i.e contributing to changing the whole wider context within which the mainstream of politics operates.

             Mana has promoted itself as a movement as much as a party. And one also working from the flax roots (Glen Innes housing campaign, feed the kids, etc). But the whole IMP venture is very much pragmatically aimed at the short term – changing the government. And, the danger is, not only that it doesn’t contribute to the broader change in the in policies, practices and processes, but that it ends up being just another party working within the status quo – something that could divert energy from initiatives working towards wider changes.
             • bad12 …

               31 May 2014 at 4:20 pm

               ”She initially came from working at the flax-roots–not from some academic background”,

               BEG your pardon karol???, Sue Bradford is the PRODUCT of Academia, both by genetics and by education,

               Sue’s father was a Professor of Biology at Auckland University,
               Sue’s mother was a secondary school teacher,

               At age 16 Sue started at Auckland University studying Politics and History,

               We aint here talking about some kid born into abject poverty, we are here talking about seriously middle/upper middle class,

               To be at university in this country at age 16 i would suggest that you have to be either brilliant in the form of genius level intelligence, OR, have one hell of a lot of ‘push’ in the form of someone being able to ‘pull’ certain levers,

               Genius level intelligence and Sue Bradford i have as yet not heard about in the same sentence,

               An unkind person might describe Sue Bradford as the rebellious kid from the seriously rich family indoctrinated into a political philosophy early on in the piece and given early access to a level of higher education at such a young age by dint of WHO she was that would turn the average kid in Otara or Porirua green with envy,

               That would be the thoughts of an unkind person, i am being nice today so i wont describe Bradford as the above might suggest…
               • Murray Olsen …

                 31 May 2014 at 7:30 pm

                 I don’t think you can read too much into starting university at 16. Quite a few kids who got good results at 6th form used to start university the next year, and a lot of them were 16. Given that first year uni basically used to repeat 7th form stuff, it was a reasonable thing to do. It needed neither genius level intelligence nor lever pulling. These days first year uni repeats quite a bit of stuff I learned in the 4th form, but that’s another story.
               • karol …

                 31 May 2014 at 8:05 pm

                 I wasn’t claiming Bradford came from a working class background. Yes, she went to Uni when young. But she has also been an activist for about as long. She’s been out on the streets and in the community, working for various causes – eg the Auckland People’s centre.

                 So to characterise her as someone locked into an academic way of understanding, with no practical idea of the realities of life for beneficiaries, or ways of working to open up more opportunities for them – to improve their situations – just seems off target to me.

                 And as she is being compared with the likes of Harre, Sykes and Harawira – really is her background any more “academic”? All went to uni when young. And, especially Sykes and Harre both have been lawyers, and , it seems to me, don’t have the same experience of years of activism out on the streets that Bradford has – or at least, Harre doesn’t.

                 Sykes and Harawira have a pretty strong record of being involved in activism at the hard end. Harre has been more involved in policy making and union negotiations.

                 All good and politically committed people, with diverse kinds of relevant experience.
           • Bill 2.2.3.2.1.2

             31 May 2014 at 3:42 pm

             i have been privy to Bradford and another individual organizing ”a demonstration” that in effect ”used” all those involved…

             I’ve long assumed that to be bog standard practice for gatekeepers and cultists on the authoritarian left. It’s like the matter at hand is secondary, must be tackled and understood from a very particular perspective that’s informed by an implacable and odd political purity, and above all, any and all ‘organising’ must serve to elevate the gatekeeper/cultist/cult in the public eye.
             • Colonial Viper …

               31 May 2014 at 5:02 pm

               Well that might inform us about why she didn’t like IMP. By necessity, IMP does not and cannot fit snugly inside the box of standard political approaches/philosophies.
               • Populuxe1 …

                 31 May 2014 at 7:33 pm

                 And MANA does?!
3. Paul 3

   31 May 2014 at 9:08 am

   The mainstream media really are worried by the Internet Party.

   Tracy Watkins.
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10105748/Internet-Mana-creates-a-crowded-Left

   Claire Trevett
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/claire-trevett/news/article.cfm?a_id=74&objectid=11263586
   • phillip ure 3.1

     31 May 2014 at 9:10 am

     that piece from trevett is beyond dire..
     • Paul 3.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 9:26 am

       It shows how concerned they are
       • veutoviper 3.1.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 10:14 am

         Agreed! But Trevett will not be liking the comments on her ‘opinion piece’. Many of them see right through it.
         • freedom 3.1.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 12:20 pm

           “As a political editor, you make a great gossip columnist.” -Oboe

           makes sense, since their gossip columnist now breaks most of their political news
           • veutoviper 3.1.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 1:04 pm

             I liked that one too! And their gossip columnist does not appear as yet to have succeeded in her request to become part of the Parliamentary Press Gallery!
   • Pasupial 3.2

     31 May 2014 at 9:35 am

     This is something I missed yesterday:

     A claim for damages caused by Kim Dotcom’s Megaupload to the Hollywood studios has moved to New Zealand courts with an attempt to freeze his fortune… the action could expand beyond assets seized before the 2012 raid. Investment in Dotcom’s new venture Mega has created a new fortune – although no shares are held in his name. The Hollywood studios’ application for the freezing order comes after the High Court told Dotcom he could have access to money seized at the time of the raid.

     http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/304147/us-studios-try-freeze-dotcoms-cash
     (original in NZH, but I can’t be bothered sifting through that rag)

     One wonders if this has any relation to the timing of the announcement of the $3 million donation to the IMP. Also; the seperation of Kim and Mona (in whose name I understand Mega shares are held) Dotcom, may be more about protecting the business’ finances than any personal animosity (not to mention; protecting her and their kids from extradition). This is pure speculation though, and the last few years certainly must have been stressful for them.
     • just saying 3.2.1

       31 May 2014 at 9:56 am

       Also; the seperation of Kim and Mona (in whose name I understand Mega shares are held) Dotcom, may be more about protecting the business’ finances than any personal animosity (not to mention; protecting her and their kids from extradition). This is pure speculation though…

       It’s certainly speculation, but exactly what went through my mind when that was announced.
       It’s ironic how the establishment’s “taking on” Dot.Com. has created an alliance and enmeshing of interests between very handy chunk of power, influence and money and the least powerful with the least resources.

       I wonder how many other competing interests within the one percent will open up opportunities for the labour movement. It would be fitting if it was fighting amongst themselves that was to bring the oligarchs down in the end. (As opposed to destroying the environment to the point that not even they can surive in it)
     • Chooky 3.2.2

       31 May 2014 at 10:03 am

       @Pasupial…looks like bullying on the part of the Hollywood Moguls….but why pick on Dotcom in New Zealand ?…when there are far bigger cloud storage systems in USA and internationally which have done much more enabling of what the Hollywood Moguls are accusing Dotcom of doing?

       ….what is their end game?…i cant figure it out myself…is it to make an example of a small (German) player in the scheme of things to set a wider legal precedent for prosecutions?…or is it a ( copyright infringement)pretext to unleash and legitimise mass surveillance on New Zealanders?…if so why?….we are a peaceful country and a peaceful people….what will require this surveillance?…what plans do they have for NZ that requires this?

       …what is the simple explanation for the prosecution and persecution of Dotcom in New Zealand?
       • Skinny 3.2.2.1

         31 May 2014 at 11:04 am

         Good points Chooky!

         The Hollywood cartel chose this back water because in all likelihood they probably had insider information via the Yanks spy networks as to aspects of the way Megaupload was operating. The apparent allegations include staffers boasting of knowingly breeching copyright infringements via email communications.

         There are clear links between visits and meetings involving US spy heads, Warner Bro Executives and John Key. And of course the leverage of both WB & Weta Productions to get tax breaks and Employment Law changes.

         One thing certain is Warner Brothers & Key-National will be spewing that Dotcom has rubbed their noses in it. It summary for our wingnuts friends;

         How ironic many Kiwi’s take this simplistic view;

         John Key’s National Government gives Warner Brothers millions of dollars of the people money through tax breaks, which to many looked like theif or extortion (over threats not producing The Hobbit here). Then courtesy of Kim Dotcom, Warner Brothers are forced to give 3 million back to the poor people of New Zealand.

         Mana members & supporters may have the view that their Robinhood Tax policy has in part come true. 🙂
       • greywarbler 3.2.2.2

         31 May 2014 at 12:27 pm

         legitimise mass surveillance on New Zealanders?…if so why?….we are a peaceful country and a peaceful people….what will require this surveillance?…what plans do they have for NZ that requires this?

         NZ now is not so peaceful. Your ideas do not reflect today’s reality. We can be called on to fight in USA wars. Also we have recently been the base for a military exercise sited in Timaru led by the USA and with over 10 other countries’ personnel.
         • Chooky 3.2.2.2.1

           31 May 2014 at 12:42 pm

           @ greywarbler

           …..still doesnt answer why they are picking on Dotcom

           ….or Keys meetings (with Hollywood Moguls and US spyheads)

           …. and dis-establishing/displacing the usual NZ Defence as overseeing the GCSB

           ….and putting in Key’s preferred friend at his instigation ( John Campbell programme).
           • Colonial Viper 3.2.2.2.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 1:07 pm

             …..still doesnt answer why they are picking on Dotcom

             Megaupload stayed independent and didn’t join/sell out to the corporate cartels which are now hunting him.

             Amazon etc. run massive cloud storage services – but they are part of the establishment status quo, co-operate with the security and surveillance state and get much wider leeway as a result.

             To summarise – independent SMEs get smashed in an increasingly big corporate world.
         • Skinny 3.2.2.2.2

           31 May 2014 at 1:31 pm

           The Yanks World view, New Zealand has strategic importance, our lands location to the closeness to the oil & mineral rich Antarctica. Hence they fly in and out of their setup in Christchurch. None of these super powers recognise our sovereign claim down on the ice, as natural resources diminish the hell scrap will ensue. Never in America’s backyard but in other nations.

           America are worried by the growing presence of China down here in the South Pacfic. You only have to look at the infrastructure projects being funded by Beijing in some of the island nations. I saw an interview with some Biff or Buck Admiral of the USA fleet who was spreading paranoia about the yellow peril. It made me sick when you consider the undemocratically, self appointed sheriff of the ‘free World’ and their track record.

           Just look at the drone strike death of one of our citizens, and how unchallenged this was. The silence was about as deafening as the poor bugger that got incinerated. No trial, no rights to justice, just some meek explanation months later from Key… hanging out with the wrong crowd in the wrong place. This National Government’s legacy is a total outstripping our rights and freedoms worst than any other Government in our history.
       • Murray Olsen 3.2.2.3

         31 May 2014 at 7:45 pm

         “we are a peaceful country and a peaceful people” Not really. Ever since we could spare a guy with a gun, we’ve been entering in wars all over the globe. I think it was Keith Sinclair who dubbed us “the Prussians of the South Pacific”. Of course, our governments have always entered the wars on the side of the hegemonic powers, but there has always been domestic opposition to them. The seppos and those of our politicians who put Washington first (most of them) would almost certainly think we need watching in case we get out of line, as we did with Viet Nam.
     • veutoviper 3.2.3

       31 May 2014 at 10:10 am

       I understand that the Hollywood moguls’ legal action to seek to freeze KDC’s assets was filed with the Auckland High Court about 10 days ago and was due to be heard last week, but delayed until the coming week to allow KDC’s lawyers more time to prepare their case.

       In view of the mass of other court cases already going on re the release of assets – eg one Supreme Court decision from hearings last year still awaited on related matters, (I think) one other Court of Appeal hearing to still be heard, etc – I doubt that there will be any quick resolution to the moguls’ latest action. (There are also legal actions going on in Hongkong with KDC seeking to get assets frozen there released IIRC.) EDIt – The extradition hearing is currently due to be heard in July, but it is possible that this will again be delayed apparently.

       I also share your thoughts that the timing of the $3m donation is to divest these assets before the latest legal action, as have been KDC’s actions to divest himself of his shares in Mega last December (?). The intentions of the moguls to seek redress have been known for some months, and I have no doubt that KDC’s legal advisors would have been working hard to protect the assets from this action.

       I also had thoughts along the lines you raise re the recent marital separation although the pressures and stresses of the last two and a half years on the marriage must have been immense – including the recent disgusting digging up of photos of Mona from the past by WO. (IIRC, the extradition request does not include Mona, only KDC and the other Megaload partners etc.) But that said, I respect KDC’s request for privacy on what are the Dotcoms’ personal affairs. So enough said.
       • yeshe 3.2.3.1

         31 May 2014 at 4:39 pm

         the four nannies from the mansion were refused visa extensions last week and removed from the country … not sure of their nationality, but it reeked of mean and very dirty to me; same week as the separation of Kim and Mona was announced.

         also .. re the original Mega .. many of music’s top artists and producers, ie Will.i.am, supported KDC and what he was planning for his online company … which was to pay artists in full for material that was uploaded .. that is what he was negotiating when the charges against him were first laid down. Not only was he fighting against the establishment, he was proposing a way through for artists of all kinds to be freed from the oligarchy … I have always understood this was the basis of their moving against him — to prevent him moving against them with support of many of the top artists in the world.

         the charges against him really have no basis in law, and they have been, so far, unable to prove the basis to encourage any NZ judge to send him to USA.

         sorry, don’t have refs and links just now, but can and will find them if anyone other than me is interested …

         everyone here is talking of the IP as a short term something … I believe KDC has a vision more vast than that. Internet privacy is paramount for all of us; freedom from snooping is our right. I say watch this space … I believe there is much more to come.

         Let’s recall that the IP gathered 2000 paid up members in less than 24 hours when it was first launched, and I believe about 10,000 in the first week ( open to correction here ?) … contrast it with UF and Dunne who took six weeks to get 500 members to restore his status in the house.

         And most of these party members with KDC do not depend upon MSM for news or views from MSM of any kind ! This is a brave new world, filled with new voters. Kia kaha to IMP.

         ( Also been wondering how many new voters have had birthdays and are able to vote for first time this election ? )
   • Chooky 3.3

     31 May 2014 at 9:46 am

     @ Paul and philip ure

     all publicity is good publicity in this case….i think these squeals from the right wing journalists and their newspapers make people sit up and take notice….and make Mana and the Internet Party very attractive …particularly to former non voters.!

     (used to be part of Winnies appeal the fact that the right wing establishment wanted to kick him and he wouldnt lie down and die)

     Laila Harre and Hone Harawira and Dotcom are looking very SMART and NOW!

     …and the journalist detractors like whinging, tired old hacks..past it and past their prime
     • Paul 3.3.1

       31 May 2014 at 9:47 am

       And the more they squeal, the more people see through their lies.
     • yeshe 3.3.2

       31 May 2014 at 4:43 pm

       +1 chooky
4. phillip ure 4

   31 May 2014 at 9:26 am

   (this is a seachange..full federal legalisation cannot be too far away now..)

   “..Even longtime supporters of marijuana legalization were surprised early Friday morning –

   when the House of Representatives voted for an amendment that would prevent the Drug Enforcement Administration and federal prosecutors from targeting medical marijuana in states where it is legal..”

   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/30/medical-marijuana-congress_n_5418084.html?ref=topbar

   (and here in new zealand..?..this is part of my comment on this:..)

   ‘….and meanwhile..here in new zealand..?..

   ..we still have reactionary-fools/forces calling the tune..

   ..and we have cancer-patients vomiting their guts out..as you read this..

   ..patients who would receive significant-relief from these side-effects..

   ..were they able to access medical-marijuana..

   ..and to me this denial of this medicine to them..

   ..is both cruel and inhumane..’

   (cont..)
5. ianmac 5

   31 May 2014 at 9:49 am

   Why doesn’t someone ask Mr Key how many millions will National be spending on the Election?
   He has been scathing of Dotcom’s millions “buying” the election. Well how much is National using to “buy” the election? Some brave reporter should ask shouldn’t they?
   • karol 5.1

     31 May 2014 at 9:51 am

     Won’t the Nats’ funding (the amount not necessarily the donaters) show up on the public record?
     • ianmac 5.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 10:18 am

       Maybe it does show on the Register of Donations but does the Public know? Can you name the figure or is it buried? We know IMP’s input but in view of the “buying” allegation we should be able to bandy the figure for the other lot.
       • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 1:39 pm

         Funding for the parties is biased in favour of the main political parties.

         All parties have a maximum that they’re allowed to spend themselves during the electioneering period of just under $3m (~$1m for party advertising and $25k for each of 70 electorates). On top of that all parties also get public funding for broadcast advertising most of which (around 60%) goes to National and Labour.

         All National seem to be complaining about is that the IMP is now on close to the same footing as they are as they’ve actually got that $3m to spend.
         • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 2:24 pm

           All National seem to be complaining about is that the IMP is now on close to the same footing as they are as they’ve actually got that $3m to spend.

           Doing my broken record act…IMP should spend $1M of that max, plus their normal fund raising, and use the remaining $2M to build assets, infrastructure and capability targetted at 2017 and 2020.
     • blue leopard 5.1.2

       31 May 2014 at 12:50 pm

       Are you being sarcastic there karol?

       It is clear from ‘The Hollowmen’ that National don’t simply benefit from large public donations – they also have organizations that supply them with electioneering campaigns of their own and this is managed in a manner that bypasses the funding limit mechanism. The exclusive Brethren campaign was not the only one like that conducted in the election year that that book analyses. There was a campaign in the horse-racing circles and others mentioned too. Hagar seriously questions why National was not prosecuted for their activities for the same election and similar if not more dubious activities that Labour was successfully prosecuted for.
       • karol 5.1.2.1

         31 May 2014 at 4:51 pm

         No, I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was assuming all their election donations are recorded, even if some donors remain anonymous.

         Foolish me.
         • blue leopard 5.1.2.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 9:20 pm

           lol!
   • greywarbler 5.2

     31 May 2014 at 12:29 pm

     Yes they should ask!
6. Morrissey 6

   31 May 2014 at 10:11 am

   Steve Bell’s cartoon about John Kerry’s taunting of U.S. dissident

   Kerry didn’t have the guts to stand up for himself when Karl Rove was organising the scurrilous Swift Boat Veterans campaign against him ten years ago. Now that he is the hunter instead of the hunted, Kerry is no less contemptible….
   http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1401441021.html
   • ianmac 6.1

     31 May 2014 at 10:21 am

     I don’t understand Morrissey.
     • Morrissey 6.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 10:41 am

       Kerry has been taunting Edward Snowden recently…
       http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kerry-calls-on-snowden-to-be-a-patriot-and-face-the-people-of-america-9448826.html

       Steve Bell’s cartoon is a pretty accurate description of the “justice” awaiting dissenters and truth-tellers. Of course, for Kerry it’s all just one big game; he lost his dignity a decade ago and obviously does not care that he acts as a shill for tyranny and a propagandist for the indefensible. He enjoys immense power, combined with obvious impunity. He can say what he likes, and can rely on the lockstep support of the media.

       On the other hand, for those with integrity—prisoners of conscience like Edward Snowden—there is everything to lose. Foolishly, Kerry thinks he can cajole him into facing the wrath of the U.S. machine by taunting him about his manliness.
       • ianmac 6.1.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 11:33 am

         Gotcha Morrissey.
7. bad12 7

   31 May 2014 at 10:37 am

   Ah sugar, ah honey honey, or, if your a sugar junky,(my guilt is written large across my Hba1C readings), ah Stevia ah less honey honey,(does nothing for the song i know),

   UPs to the commenter who last week put me onto Stevia, extracted from a South American herb, as a sweetener,(the courier just dropped 500 hits of the stuff on the doorstep and i am back in sugar junkies high heaven),

   Here’s the best info i can find so far about Stevia, a whole web-site devoted to the stuff no less, the herb plant can be grown in a New Zealand summer, and, being the efficient hunter gatherer i am, my first packet of seeds is ‘in the mail’,

   Growing your own supply of natural sugar which has none of the nasty effects of ”the white death” has just got to be for want of a better word ”the shit”, and, as i do so i propose to bore,(or interest) you all with the technical details as i do so,

   This will tell you everything you want to know about Stevia,(apologies to the Hamsters who appear to have been the guinea pigs, but, no Hamsters were harmed devouring high amounts of Stevia, however, i cannot attest to the fact that some bastard didn’t knock the poor old Hamsters on their nuts once they were of no more use)

   http://www.stevia.net

   For the story on the cons side of the argument there is this:
   http://www.empoweredsustenance.com/is-stevia-bad-for-you/

   A warning: Stevia may cause low blood pressure,(which sounds bad if you suffer that already but might be helpful in this modern world of Stress where high blood pressure is the result,

   This is an argument against Stevia use which considering the Overdose of sugars we consume every day of our lives,(a Apple, a Orange, and, a Banana consumed across your day IS the sum total of your daily sugar needs), simply says to me that Stevia may help to remove deposits of sugar stored as fat from our bodies,

   ”Stevia is sweet on the palate, so the body assumes it is receiving sugar and primes itself to do so”

   ”Glucose is cleared from the blood stream and blood sugars drop, but, no real sugar/glucose is provided to the body to compensate”

   ”When this happens, Adrenaline and Cortisol surge to mobilize sugar from other sources,(liver and muscle glycogen,protein, or, body tissue), to bring the blood glucose back up”, unquote.

   Now that might sound bad if you didn’t consider just how much ”sugar” we all consume, its in everything, fruit and vege are loaded with sugar, that loaf of wholegrain bread you purchased the other day???, loaded with sugar,

   Obviously, you have to make the judgements for what’s good for you…
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     31 May 2014 at 1:23 pm

     ”When this happens, Adrenaline and Cortisol surge to mobilize sugar from other sources,(liver and muscle glycogen,protein, or, body tissue), to bring the blood glucose back up”, unquote.

     Or to frame it in a succinct fashion – it pushes the body into a stress response imitating a flight/fight reaction. For some people this won’t be a very good thing.
     • bad12 7.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 1:52 pm

       CV, expand on this ”not being a very good thing please”, i would suggest that as the ”fight or flight” mechansim is an intrinsic part of Human behavior that in our modern sedentary life-styles is largely not triggered and there is possibly a benefit involved from actually triggering this most basic of human behaviors both physically and/or psychologically,

       That of course is my initial ‘thoughts’ without having researched the proposition via the search engine,(the idea is now in my notes to do just that),

       Anecdotal evidence: i have been using Stevia all morning in 4-5 mugs of coffee/tea and find myself if anything more relaxed than normal, brunch was a Banana which according to the literature is about 1/3rd of my daily sugar needs when measured against the WHO’s new sugar guidelines,(6 teaspoons a day),

       How many teaspoons of sugar in a piece of fruit,???

       http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp…how-much-sugar…fruit

       http://www.sugarstacks.com/fruits.htm
       • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 2:00 pm

         CV, expand on this ”not being a very good thing please”, i would suggest that as the ”fight or flight” mechansim is an intrinsic part of Human behavior that in our modern sedentary life-styles is largely not triggered and there is possibly a benefit involved from actually triggering this most basic of human behaviors both physically and/or psychologically,

         You’re analysis is certainly thoughtful.

         The problem with modern lifestyles is the chronic day in day out continuous stress – for which human bodies (and minds) were not designed to cope with very well.

         The people who will find additional physiological stress a real burden are those who are already starting to burn out.

         HOWEVER as you point out there is mondo sugar everywhere and cutting back even 2/3 leaves plenty left and will take pressure off the physiology in of itself. So yes like everything its a game of trade-offs.

         My suggestion is to recalibrate your taste buds over time so that you are just fine with both less sugar, and less stevia, overall.
         • bad12 7.1.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 3:05 pm

           CV, yes i see what you mean, with the lifestyle a lot of us leading resulting in ”stress”, i am not sure if the warning in my original comment came from any of the www.’s i posted with that comment,

           But,

           It was garnered from my reading of a number of sites which discussed the pro’s and con’s of Stevia,

           ”Warning: may cause low blood pressure”, i would suggest that the lifestyle that leads to ”stress” will also lead to high blood pressure and the blood pressure lowering qualities said to be inherent in Stevia might then be of help in alleviating at least one of the negative effects of stress,

           That of course is not scientific knowledge, simply intuitive thought, as the ”search” so far has turned up a lack of large studies focused on the Stevia plant or its by-products,

           As soon as i can get some growing i will probably ditch the use of the refined product in preference for the ”whole food” approach to diet…
   • yeshe 7.2

     31 May 2014 at 4:46 pm

     Kings and Palmers both used to sell plants … happy eating !
     • bad12 7.2.1

       31 May 2014 at 4:55 pm

       yeshe, tah for that, i have the seeds coming, the plant is said to be hard to grow from seed but once you have a viable plant growing from cuttings is said to be an effective means of success,

       Being a bit of an ”expert” at cloning from a previous experience i am pretty sure all i will need is the one successful seed,(loz my over-driven little mind even thought of producing some for sale)…
       • Clemgeopin 7.2.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 5:01 pm

         May be your favourite party can give it out to voters before the election as a free sweetener.
         • bad12 7.2.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 5:29 pm

           Clemogin??? was that intended as ”smart”…
           • Clemgeopin 7.2.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 6:25 pm

             No, just funny….
             And another thing. May be you should investigate if perhaps this new drug, stevia, has any aphrodisiac benefits on you. (LOL. Don’t get mad. Just a joke!)
             • bad12 …

               31 May 2014 at 8:00 pm

               Am not sure i would describe Stevia as a drug, a herb yes, my personal definition of a herb being a weed that the humans have found a use for,

               Sugar politics which stop Stevia being classed as a ‘sweetener’ in the US, might well be the cause of far greater health harm both there in the US and here,

               Food today is full of sugar of one sort or another, if its 97% fat free its almost sure to be an alarm screaming loaded with sugar instead, in a can, in a jar, in a sealed packet, the chances are that its loaded with the sweet stuff,

               The Western Worlds epidemic of Diabetes and heart disease is mostly brought about by our daily overdose of sugar and if there were a product that provided the same sweetening effect as sugar found that could bypass causing such conditions that did not cause serious health risks,(which the initial research on Stevia seems to suggest it does), Legislation could then be considered to remove the other sugars from foods,

               i dare not research Stevia for any aphrodisiac qualities as i have already thought of what might be the next cutting retort…
               • Clemgeopin …

                 31 May 2014 at 9:25 pm

                 Good to read. About five years ago, I grew a stevia plant in my out door garden from a seedling I had bought somewhere. It lasted a few months, may be 5 to 6, then just died for inexplicable reason and I did not pursue the matter further. Do you have a green house/hot house?

                 I was kidding referring to it as a drug.

                 Crystal sugar of course is processed food. Unnatural, derived (and probably ‘bleached’) from sugar cane. Not sure, how they bleach it into white from brown. Hope not using ammonia or asbestos or some such thing!

                 You might like to read this so that one day it might give you ideas as to how to extract and crystalise your stevia!
                 http://www.aventuredusucre.com/index.php?nv=content&id=11
   • Molly 7.3

     1 June 2014 at 10:20 am

     bad12, have had stevia growing in my garden for a few years now.

     Tried sowing seeds but they are hard to strike, and you can purchase the herbs from outlets such as Mitre10 along with the parsley, mint etc if you find you have no luck with the seeds.

     My stevia (in Auckland) has been going from strength to strength and dies down and comes back up again late spring. Tried my first attempt at collecting seeds this year, but have enough growing to serve our needs.
8. phillip ure 8

   31 May 2014 at 10:54 am

   mike williams will have to be signing himself in for some chiropractic-treatment..

   ..after his pirouette worthy of a ballerina..

   ..on the mana/internet/harre business..

   ..he has gone from:..’it will never happen..!..it’s a total joke!’..

   ..to..’it’s a master-stroke..!’

   ..a week or so is clearly a very long time in the world of the political opinions of mike williams..

   ..eh..?
   • Bearded Git 8.1

     31 May 2014 at 5:47 pm

     ha ha yes phillip-Williams also said on 9 to noon that the IMP would be headed by “some nonentity”. oops!
     • phillip ure 8.1.1

       31 May 2014 at 6:16 pm

       he also supported shane jones for the labour party leadership..

       ..is still a staunch neo-lib/rand-ite..

       ..and not a murmer of apology from him for the ignoring/demonising of the poor..screwing over the environment..

       ..of the labour party he was president of..

       ..he clearly still hasn’t got a fucken clue/doesn’t know which way is up..

       ..garner got a zinger on him on the nation..the discussion was on housing costs/’crisis’..

       ..and garner said to williams..as an aside..’you can’t say anything..you did nothing for nine years..!’

       ..and williams had no comeback..he just sat there looking glum…
9. weka 9

   31 May 2014 at 11:22 am

   I’ve seen this accusation made against the GP that they should have given Laila Harre a high place on the GP list. Does anyone have any evidence that Harre was interested in this?
   • karol 9.1

     31 May 2014 at 11:27 am

     Thanks, weka. I’ve nothing against this being debated on TS – but I was concerned it would divert from the main focus of the Green Party Conference and policies – as stated in the post.
   • Skinny 9.2

     31 May 2014 at 11:29 am

     Yes she said in her own words that she was considering a comeback as a Green MP. Earlier in an interview on tv.
     • weka 9.2.1

       31 May 2014 at 11:41 am

       That’s not quite the same thing Skinny. What I am asking is whether she actively wanted on the GP list this time round.

       “Earlier in an interview on tv.”

       Bit vague, can you be more specific?
       • swordfish 9.2.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 12:17 pm

         Have a read of comments by John Chapman and Michal about two-thirds of the way down Chris Trotters Daily Blog post. Here…http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/29/breaking-game-changer-laila-harre-accepts-the-internet-party-leadership/
         • weka 9.2.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 12:45 pm

           Thanks swordfish, that was interesting. There are half a dozen comments, starting here

           http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/29/breaking-game-changer-laila-harre-accepts-the-internet-party-leadership/#comment-222438
       • blue leopard 9.2.1.2

         31 May 2014 at 12:29 pm

         On today’s The Nation Harre said words to the effect that she ‘considered’ being a Green MP, yet sounded like she concluded from her own side it wasn’t where she felt her skills were best placed. This doesn’t answer the question whether she actually applied to be a Green MP – it is left rather nebulous – whether it was just a thought or any steps were taken toward registering (or whatever it is one does) to be a Green MP.

         It sounds to me like Trotter and co are making shit up when they say that the Greens ‘should have offered her a higher place on the list’. I do get a bit tired of the apparent acceptability of pulling ‘facts’ out of ones’ own arse. It appears that it is no longer deemed necessary to acknowledge any difference between facts and fantasy. Pretty psycho-pathetic trend if you asked me.

         Haven’t got the link for the Nation – however the matter can be heard in Harre’s own words on today’s The Nation if you wish to follow it up.
         • weka 9.2.1.2.1

           31 May 2014 at 12:41 pm

           Yep, making shit up, and then Edwards quoting it as if it was real. Given that Harre resigned in December, and the GP list was formalised last month, it just doesn’t make sense.
           • phillip ure 9.2.1.2.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 1:59 pm

             oh..!..come off it..!

             ..her resignation in dec was the end of the process..

             ..discussions about her having a high enough place to get into parliament would have been over the course of last year..

             ..yr logic for dismissing this scenario is non-existant..

             ..and f.w.i.w….when harre first started working for the greens..i was pleased..

             ..both for what her skills wd bring to the green mix..

             ..(and their good performance in parliament last yr..and not so much this yr..would on the surface confirm that ‘skills’ expectation on my part..)

             ..and because i had the expectation she wd be high on the green list..

             ..thayt obviously went pear-shaped somewhere along the line..for whatever reasons..

             ..but as i say..yr off-hand dismissal of this policy….is just that..

             ..off-hand..
             • phillip ure …

               31 May 2014 at 2:02 pm

               mm..!..barred permission to edit comment..still 6 mins to run on edit-timer..

               ..it’s happened before..

               ..’policy’ in 2nd last line shd read as ‘scenario’..
             • weka …

               31 May 2014 at 2:40 pm

               Not really sure what you are on about there phil, not least because of how you write. So let me clarify. Some people (eg Trotter) are criticising the GP for not giving Harre a high place on the list. The implication being that the GP should have made sure she was one of their MPs. It doesn’t make sense because afaik the GP can’t just drop someone in high on the list, and secondly, because Harre herself appears to not have wanted to be there.
               • Harry Holland …

                 31 May 2014 at 9:38 pm

                 weka said: “afaik the GP can’t just drop someone in high on the list”

                 Yeah, from memory the GP exec kind of can parachute people into high places on the list. The membership get to have a say, but a cunning algorithm prevents them having too much say (places can bubble up or down a place or two, but the members can’t really rocket anyone up or down the list). Someone told me it was originally introduced to protect Nandor from the anti-drug members getting together to drop him to the bottom of the list, but it also effectively sealed in the power of the exec to control the list.

                 Aside: How does IMP rank it’s list?
                 • weka …

                   31 May 2014 at 10:23 pm

                   From the GP list selection process, given to members with the list they are to vote on,

                   What are the balancing criteria?

                   After this vote [by the membership], adjustment of the order of the List may be undertaken, to ensure that it is balanced. The National Executive makes the final decision on what adjustments, if any, are retained in the Final List. Normally, a pre-set algorithm for adjusting the list will be used, which is designed to ensure gender balance, geographical diversity, age diversity, and Māori representation, while respecting the result of the Members’ Vote. It does this by moving candidates a maximum of two positions from their non-adjusted position. The List before adjustment will be available for scrutiny by Party Members.

                   What is the Initial List?

                   The Initial List (reproduced above) is the result of a vote of the delegates and candidates present at the Campaign Conference 2014. It is not the Final List that will be used for the General Election. The Final List will be the result of both the Members’ Vote and the subsequent decisions made by the National Executive.
                   • Harry Holland …

                     31 May 2014 at 11:01 pm

                     OK, so it’s more conference delegates and candidates rather than Exec initially… I was confused on that point.

                     Delegates/candidates set the starting list. This is the main opportunity to parachute someone in, since delegates/candidates are generally keen to support a strategy that has the support of the leaders and Exec.
                     The effect of the members vote is very limited.
                     Exec can then tweak (and I can recall at least one final list when a tweak was applied that was not based on the published criteria).

                     I guess the point is that many people think step 2 is where the action is, but really it’s step 1 and potentially step 3.
                   • weka …

                     31 May 2014 at 11:19 pm

                     don’t have time to read this now, but here is the full GP list selection process (PDF). I don’t think parts 1 and 3 are as open to manipulation as you suggest, but will have a read tomorrow.

                     http://www.elections.org.nz/sites/default/files/bulk-upload/documents/green_party_candidate_selection_and_list_ranking_processes_2014.pdf
       • yeshe 9.2.1.3

         31 May 2014 at 4:49 pm

         On TV# The Nation interview this morning I’m sure she said she did not want to be a Green MP and left in December to work for CTU Get Out and Vote campaign.

         Sorry, no online link available until after Sunday morning replay.
         • karol 9.2.1.3.1

           31 May 2014 at 4:58 pm

           Thanks, yeshe.

           Summary of what Harre said, here.

           The Internet Party, which has forged an alliance with the Mana Party, does not want to draw votes away from other progressive parties, Ms Harre told The Nation.
           It’s targeting youth, National voters concerned about the Government’s lack of action, and NZ First voters concerned about a possible coalition with National.
           “The bottom line here is wanting to change the Government because of the damage it’s doing to future generations.”
           […]
           Ms Harre said she had considered standing for the Greens, but had not felt it was the right thing to do or best use of her skills.
           She would be paid an MP’s salary during the campaign, but that was not a factor in her decision, she said.

           The Nation interview here.

           Transcript here.

           Lisa Owen: You were considering standing for the Green Party weren’t you. So why didn’t you do that?

           Laila Harre: I gave it some consideration but at no point did I feel like it was right thing to do or the best use of my talents and skills and experience at that time. In fact, I’d committed this year to working on the Council of Trade Unions ‘Get Out the Vote’ campaign and we’ve been setting that up since the beginning of the year, it’s going very well. And like the Greens, we are focused in the Internet Party on a change of government this year.
   • karol 9.3

     31 May 2014 at 11:52 am

     I’ve tried googling for an answer and can only find references to Trotter and Bryce Edwards stating this – and they are no fans of the Green Party.

     Trotter.

     Edwards.
     • weka 9.3.1

       31 May 2014 at 12:06 pm

       Thanks Karol, all I could find was this from Turei,

       HARRE HAS GREEN PARTY’S BLESSING

       Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said Harre had resigned from the Green Party in December.

       “She decided that she wanted to move onto other things and do other work.”

       She was not concerned Harre had taken trade secrets with her, saying she was “a trustworthy person” who had “every democratic right to be part of another party and to lead it if she wants to”.

       Harre was not being lined up as a Green party candidate and had not spoken with Turei about the Internet Party.

       http://news.tangatawhenua.com/archives/25755

       It’s possible that the GP and Harre didn’t see eye to eye on something re Harre standing for the GP, but given her resignation in December, it’s not a recent thing.
       • weka 9.3.1.1

         31 May 2014 at 12:08 pm

         Which is why that bit from Trotter seems just plain odd,

         Incredibly, there was a person available who fulfilled every one of Dotcom’s criteria. Laila Harré had been working for the Greens, but when the time came to draw up the latter’s Party List no one in the Green hierarchy considered Harré worthy of a winnable slot. Harré was then snapped up by the CTU to direct its “Get Out the Vote” campaign.

         I see Edwards just repeats and makes the rumour.
         • Paul 9.3.1.1.1

           31 May 2014 at 12:11 pm

           Not odd when you realise Trotter does not like the Greens.
           • weka 9.3.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 12:49 pm

             True, a bit blatant then I suppose. I wonder if he is aware of his own bias.
       • karol 9.3.1.2

         31 May 2014 at 12:13 pm

         Harre may have started talking with Dotcom back in December, before she resigned from the Green Party. Who knows? But it seems to me to be a line being talked up by those who were never very supprortive of the Green Party.
         • veutoviper 9.3.1.2.1

           31 May 2014 at 1:00 pm

           “Harre may have started talking with Dotcom back in December …”

           When the rumours started circulating before the formal announcement, I also wondered when Harre had become interested etc in the IP – and whether it was prior to KDC’s claim back in February that he had someone with Parliamentary experience etc interested.

           At the time, this was taken by many as being a current sitting MP. I recall thinking then that his wording had been very specific and could also mean someone who was NOT a current MP. I had a quick look for his specific statement etc on Thursday, but ran out of time to do a full search. It is still intriguing me so hope to find time (not today) to do a fuller search. But when Harre was rumoured to be the IP leader, it struck me that she met the criteria that KDC had stated back in Feb.

           However, I also heard Harre stating in a TV or radio interview since her appointment that she had only been in discussions with IP for about 3 weeks …. so who knows… (Sorry, cannot remember which interview that was, and must race off now.)
           • ianmac 9.3.1.2.1.1

             31 May 2014 at 3:37 pm

             Yes veuto. I heard her say that as well. And I think she said that she had no connection at all before that time. I think it was on radio.
         • phillip ure 9.3.1.2.2

           31 May 2014 at 2:06 pm

           @ karol..

           “..Harre may have started talking with Dotcom back in December,..”

           harre has stated this is not the case..

           ..that first proposals/discussions were very recent..

           and..so..karol..you are assuming that harre started working for/with the greens with parliament not in mind..?

           ..and especially when she has already stated this was the case..?
     • yeshe 9.3.2

       31 May 2014 at 5:17 pm

       from TV3 The Nation this am … and probably on the news there tonight ..

       ‘Ms Harre said she had considered standing for the Greens, but had not felt it was the right thing to do or best use of her skills.’

       Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/3M-funding-will-make-votes-count—Harre/tabid/1607/articleID/346563/Default.aspx#ixzz33GdQSE6w
10. swordfish 10

    31 May 2014 at 11:40 am

    The Dark Arts: Prominent National Party-aligned Bloggers and their dodgy relationship with Opinion Polls

    Part One: Introducing Mr David Farrar

    Back on May 15s Open Mike , JanM mused aloud “Notice how Curiablog seems to have carelessly mislaid that Roy Morgan poll ?”

    Indeed. At the time of writing the present comment, Farrar has the latest Fairfax, One News and 3 News results posted on Curiablog, but no sign whatsoever of the last 3 Roy Morgans (2 of which have been particularly poor for our very close chums and confidantes – the Nats). So no trace of them at all. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Not a sausage.

    All of which has inspired me to outline some of the darker arts practised by various National-bought-and-paid-for bloggers when it comes to poll analysis. Here’s the first of an occassional series…

    Anecdotal evidence suggests many journalists and others in the commetariat rely heavily on Farrar to do their Opinion Poll number-crunching for them. Farrar is certainly happy to oblige when the numbers favour National and the Right. When they don’t, however, I’d suggest his data on Kiwiblog and elsewhere often borders on outright obfuscation.

    Take, for instance, his contrasting treatment of (1) the February 2014 polls (which were good for National and the Right and relatively poor for the Left) and (2) the March 2014 polls (comparatively bad for Nats/Right and good for both the Left and NZFirst). Regarding the former, Farrar plays things very much with a straight bat, with the latter, however, he appears to deploy some rather dodgy sleights-of-hand.

    First, I’ll firmly establish the poll trends of the last 3 months (I alluded to these a few days ago on Open Mike, but I’ll set it out in a table here):

    2014 Monthly Poll Averages

    FEBRUARY
    Nat 49%, Right Bloc 53%, Lab 32%, Left Bloc 42%, NZF 4%
    (1) Nat lead over Lab = 17
    (2) Right lead over Left = 11

    MARCH
    Nat 46% (- 3 points), Right Bloc 50% (- 3), Lab 31% (- 1), Left Bloc 44% (+ 2), NZF 5% (+ 1)
    (1) Nat lead over Lab = 15
    (2) Right lead over Left = 6

    APRIL
    Nat 46% (=), Right Bloc 49% (- 1), Lab 30% (- 1), Left Bloc 45% (+ 1), NZF 6% (+ 1)
    (1) Nat lead over Lab = 16
    (2) Right lead over Left = 4

    (APRIL compared to FEB: Nat – 3, Right – 4, Lab – 2, Left + 3, NZF + 2

    A clear swing to National and the Right took place in February (relative to the January poll average). And, as you can see, that was followed by an equally clear swing away from the Nats (down 3 points) and the Right Bloc (also down 3) in March – with both the Left Bloc and, to a lesser extent, NZ First benefiting. (Note, incidently, that if we separate the first poll of March – Herald-Digi – from the 4 subsequent polls of March on the basis that the latter were all very poor for the Nats whilst the former ( Herald-Digi ) was very much part and parcel of the 5 consecutive National-favouring polls of Feb-early March – something you’d want to do if you were genuinely interested in clarifying the poll trends, then the swing away from National and the Right is even greater).

    In any case,note that although National’s lead over Labour was down a little in March (15 – down 2 from 17), the far more important factor is the Right Bloc /Left Bloc gap which has almost halved (from 11 down to 6 points). And, as you can see, by April it was down to 4 points (bearing in mind that, given the historic inflation of Nat/Right support in recent years, the actual Right/left gap was probably close to zero.

    Right, so how does Farrar handleallofthis ? Certainly when the polls were running National’s way as they were in February,he was as happy as the darling buds of may to take an honest – one might almost say fulsome – approach. In ‘Latest Poll’ (Feb 23) KIWIBLOG (and re-printed the following day in the NBR ), Farrar presented a range of stats including National’s lead over the combined Lab/Green Bloc, happily contrasting this with the January figures when Lab+Green were slightly ahead of the Nats. So with things in late Feb looking unusually good for the Blue team, young master Farrar was throwing stats around with wild abandon.

    All very lovely-jubbly. But how does he then deal with the subsequent swing AWAY from National and the Right in March ? Well, according to his ‘March Public Polls’ (April 1, KIWIBLOG), there wasn’t one !!!

    For a start – and perhaps most importantly – Farrar avoids all mention of the way the Right/Left Bloc gap had almost halved in March. Nor can he quite bring himself to re-visit the more specific Nat-lead-over-Lab+Green gap, which in March was less than a third of what it’d been in February (2% – 5 points down from 7%). So Farrar’s first technique was to suddenly take a vow of silence on a rather crucial measurement that revealed a very significant narrowing of the Left-Right support gap.

    Instead, he takes it upon himself to focus solely on the Nat-Lab percentage point divide – which he would have us believe remained at 17 points in March: “….the same margin as in February.” As I’ve shown, it was in fact down to 15. So how did Farrar come up with a steady 17 ? Answer seems to be: sleight-of-hand.

    He tells his KIWIBLOG readership in this April 1 post that there were 5 polls in March – 2 Roy Morgans, a One News, a Herald-Digi and a Fairfax.

    But were these really the polls of March ? Well no, they turn out to be a mix of some of the March polls and some of the February polls !!! For a start, we know that the late-March Roy Morgan was released 2 days after Farrar’s April 1 post – so he clearly didn’t include at least one of the 4 consecutive March polls that were bad news for National and good for the Left. What’s more, his mention of “2” Roy Morgans in this context clearly suggests he’s including not only the early-March RM but also the late-February one as well ! (ie – the 4th of the Feb polls good for National and the Right).

    Second, there’s no mention of the 3 News poll of late-March (once again, one of the 4 consecutive polls good for the Left is omitted). And then on top of all that, he includes the Fairfax poll from early February !!! (conducted 8-10 Feb, released 15 Feb). How did he even conceive of smuggling that one in ? Your guess is as good as mine.

    So, rather than presenting stats for the 5 polls of March (the latter 4, as I’ve suggested, being comparatively good for the Left / bad for National and the Right), Farrar decides to quietly exclude 2 of these 4 March polls while at the same time smuggling into the equation 2 from February when the Nats were still king. Extraordinary stuff. Great way to muddy the waters for your readership of leading political journos. (I’ve noticed that even Chris Trotter has relied entirely on Farrar’s numbers in recent weeks).

    And then, just a couple of days later on KIWIBLOG, Farrar has the bare-faced temerity to respond to David Cunliffe’s expression of optimism with respect to future opinion polls with: “So on Planet Labour the polls are wrong…I’d like to visit this dimension one day.” !!!

    POSTSCRIPT

    Incidently, moving forward, Farrar’s rendition of the April polls (‘April 2014 polls’) (KIWIBLOG, May 11), once again carefully excludes any mention of the Nat vs Lab+Green gap he was so happy to wax lyrical about back in the halcyon days of February (before Collins, Parata and Williamson raised their scabby heads).

    Then again, KIWIBLOG’s sub-title is ” Fomenting happy mischef since 2003 “.So we can’t say we weren’t explicitly warned.
    • swordfish 10.1

      31 May 2014 at 11:59 am

      Should, of course, be “…handle all of this” as opposed to the rather bizarre single word “handleallofthis” I must be drunk !!!
      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 12:04 pm

        Outstanding stuff, swordfish. Another awkward question given the polls released usually do not say – is there any suggestion as to what the “undecided” proportion out there might be, and how is it changing?
        • swordfish 10.1.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 5:37 pm

          I know this is the 2nd time of done this in a few days, CV – but I will get back to you on this. I promised a few days ago and I’ll keep that promise, even if it takes a little longer than I was expecting. I’ve got some very interesting things to say (well, at least mildly interesting, bordering on pithy) about who’s being included and excluded – not to mention the extraordinary variation in Undecideds between different Polling companies. Deserves a good deal of scrutiny. So I’m gonna spend a bit of spare time on it in the next few days, possibly do a few re-calculations of party support figures using all of the respondents rather than just the Decided and then I’ll get back to you mid week or thereabouts on Open Mike.
    • ianmac 10.2

      31 May 2014 at 1:54 pm

      Mind you there is a chance that with Farrar’s glowing reports Nats will get so complacent which would be good for us.
      • yeshe 10.2.1

        31 May 2014 at 4:53 pm

        🙂
    • Tracey 10.3

      31 May 2014 at 6:35 pm

      Thanks again swordfish.
11. freedom 11

    31 May 2014 at 11:42 am

    Is this the most ridiculous comment [yet/ever] made on the housing crisis?

    “it’s just simply not accurate to draw the conclusion from that data that German backpackers are somehow driving up Auckland house prices.”

    It does come from a Tracy Watkins article , so ridiculous comments are to be expected. As for the rest of the article, it is incredible how Tracy Watkins somehow forgets to mention any of the numerous changes in Australia that are forcing so many kiwis back home
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10105555/NZ-now-the-lucky-country
    • Paul 11.1

      31 May 2014 at 11:59 am

      Noted this as well. See comment 14 below.
      It’s not that NZ is somehow a lucky country. It s just that Australia now adopting the neoliberal policies that NZ has had for years which makes a far less attractive place to go to.

      I would imagine most of those who fled NZ in the period 2008 to 2012 left because of a lack of jobs and prospects in this country.
      They are unlikely to be keen supporters of this neoliberal government.
      They are not returning because they suddenly support Key and his dreadful policies.
      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 2:17 pm

        +1

        People are coming back because Australia’s economy, under a conservative/liberal government, is crashing. Throw in the lack of support for NZers over there and it becomes obvious that NZers down on their luck have one choice – return to NZ.
        • Paul 11.1.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 2:25 pm

          These people are highly unlikely to vote for Key.
        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.2

          31 May 2014 at 2:27 pm

          It is an irony that the first onboard “Lifeboat NZ” maybe overseas Kiwis…
    • Tracey 11.2

      31 May 2014 at 6:37 pm

      Have a peak on scoop for lisa owens interviews of smith and twyford on housing… Always of interest to me is which questions dont politicians want to answer.
12. Paul 12

    31 May 2014 at 11:43 am

    Greens promise free healthcare for teens
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11265312

    Highlights…
    “Teenagers would get free GP visits and prescriptions under a Green Government, co-leader Metiria Turei revealed this morning.
    The new policy would mean that every New Zealander under 18 years of age would get fully funded healthcare, following a promise by National in the Budget to expand free visits from under-six year-olds to under-13 year-olds.
    The policy was designed to reduce hospital admissions, prevent unwanted pregnancies, detect and treat mental illness, and take the pressure off parents at a stressful time in a child’s life.
    In a speech that was mostly focused on children, Mrs Turei also took a shot at the National Government’s environmental credentials, saying they were trashing the Resource Management Act and poisoning New Zealand’s rivers.
    She said New Zealanders faced a stark choice at the September election.
    “Voters can choose National and its Cabinet Clubs, Charter Schools and crazy hangers on, and we will all watch while a tiny few get rich as a result.
    “Or we can have a truly progressive government committed to giving everyone a fair go.”
    • Tracey 12.1

      31 May 2014 at 6:38 pm

      Their schools as community hubs policy is also a thoroughly common sense idea.
      • Molly 12.1.1

        1 June 2014 at 10:29 am

        Not convinced on using schools as community hubs for the following reasons:
        – security issues around protecting the rights/safety of children will be hard to articulate and enforce,
        – those who may most benefit from ongoing community support may have adverse reactions to returning to places that may have negative memories or associations for them,
        – changes in MoE policy in the future can change any and all progress in a short period of time.

        A solution:
        Create community hubs using those ubiquitious war memorial halls, sports clubs, community centres etc. Give ownership over to the community in some shared form. Makes implementation of a short-sighted policy by future governments so much more difficult to enact.

        Better use of unused resources – we have halls, community centres and sports clubs that are empty most of the time, and a wider sense of engagement and community can be achieved.
13. Mike 13

    31 May 2014 at 11:48 am

    Labour is proposing to cut immigration as a tool to manage house prices. This has been discussed in a number of articles and interviews, most recently in the Press today (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10105555/NZ-now-the-lucky-country) and by Phil Twyford on The Nation this morning.

    “Labour’s proposal would, in part, see the “points system” under which skilled migrants get entry to New Zealand tweaked in response to net migration flows.”

    When Labour talks about the “points system” what they mean is a system used in assessing applications under the Skilled Migrant Category (SMC) of New Zealand’s Residence Programme. Points are awarded for age, work experience, qualifications with weighting towards having skilled employment here, especially if this is in an area of long term skill shortage.

    There are lots of problems with this policy which I could go in to, but the main glaringly obvious one is that it doesn’t work. We know it doesn’t work because it hasn’t.

    Labour is ignoring the fact that successive changes have already been made (in January 2010, June 2011 and January 2013) to make this points system harder to get through. This has resulted (since 2008/09) in a drop of 32.78% in visas being granted: nearly 32,000 less people over the past five years.

    What effect has this cut had on Auckland house prices?

    Why will cutting it any more have a different effect?
    • Mike 13.1

      31 May 2014 at 11:59 am

      Interestingly during the same period (25 July 2011) “residential property development” was added by the government to the list of acceptable investment types for wealthy overseas investors to apply for visas here.
      • Tracey 13.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 6:41 pm

        With a refusal to tie them to personal liability for ten years… Foreign, non resident property developers need to provide a bond so that if they profit from bad work, and have dissolved the company to avoid liability, there is some money to recompense, or make them pay for effective insurance for this purpose.they dont, cos they serve big property developers.
    • bad12 13.2

      31 May 2014 at 1:13 pm

      My view is that Labour are being deliberately dishonest focusing upon immigrants, OK, having said that, the ”problem”, if there is one, of too many of our homes being brought up by foreign investors/immigrants should be quantified, it is obviously necessary knowledge,

      More to the point is that 200,000 homes in the past 20 years have been transferred from the status of actual homes to being ”rental properties”, a large % of this transfer has occurred in the bigger cities and of course Labour nor National will honestly point out WHO in the majority have hold of those 200,000 former homes as ”rental property”…
    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      31 May 2014 at 2:14 pm

      Labour is ignoring the fact that successive changes have already been made (in January 2010, June 2011 and January 2013) to make this points system harder to get through. This has resulted (since 2008/09) in a drop of 32.78% in visas being granted: nearly 32,000 less people over the past five years.

      [citation needed]
      • Mike 13.3.1

        1 June 2014 at 12:36 pm

        Hi Draco,

        The data is from Immigration New Zealand’s statistics on Expression of Interest (EOI) selections, released every fortnight compiled into a record.

        The selections are made to meet the requirements of the Skilled/Business Stream of the New Zealand Residence Programme (NZRP) which have been in place since 2002. In every year since then the minimum quota (45,000) has been met. In 2011 however the quota was not going to be met and a change was made to spread the same quota across three years.

        Bearing in mind an annual quota of between 45,000 and 50,000 people the number of people selected have been:

        2007/08 – – 44668
        2008/09 – – 42941
        2009/10 – – 33775
        2010/11 – – 30665
        2011/12 – – 30390
        2012/13 – – 30449
        2013/14 – – 30028

        So government is on target to miss its 3 year quota by 54,133 (a little over 37%). That means in the last 3 years only 2 years worth of skilled migrant applications have been allowed into the process.

        One argument is that more high quality applicants are being selected, however this does not explain why since 2008/09 decline rates have doubled from 10.5% to 20%. The actual number being allowed through the process is then likely to be 72,693 over these 3 years, less than half of the quota.

        So back to my original point using official statistics from another angle: what has this massive reduction in numbers done to the Auckland housing market?

        To explain my earlier comments:
        There is no direct citation on the changes made in January 2010, June 2011 and January 2013 as these were adjustments to the selection criteria identified by subsequent selection patterns.

        Process:
        – applicants under the Skilled Migrant Category start by completing an online EOI;
        – this calculates points and EOIs scoring 100 or more can be submitted;
        – every 2 weeks the immigration department selects EOIs based on rules (found under SM3.15 http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/47059.htm) which have remained relatively unchanged since 2007;
        – control then is by the number of EOIs selected to start the application process.

        EOIs are ranked into the following groups:
        1) 140+ points including points for a skilled job offer;
        2) 140+ without points for a skilled job offer;
        3) Less than 140 points but including points for a skilled job offer;

        The following have less than 140 points and are selected in descending order of points:
        4) Including points for at least 6 years recognised work experience in an area of absolute skills shortage;
        5) Including points for at least 2 years recognised work experience in an area of absolute skills shortage;
        6) Including points for a recognised qualification in an area of absolute skills shortage;
        7) Other EOIs.

        The changes I mentioned happened in this way:

        January 2010
        Before this date EOIs from all seven groups were almost always selected at an average of 777 EOIs per selection (2007/08 and 2008/09 years). There was an immediate change from 16 December 2009 and through 2010 an average of 555 EOIs were selected each time.

        In the 112 selections since not one EOI from group 7 has been gathered;
        Only three times since then have EOIs from group 6 been gathered. – selections from group 6 have been made 3 times selections . An average of 770 EOIs were usually

        June 2011
        Since this date not one EOI from group 5 has been selected.

        January 2013
        Since this date there have been 36 selections, only four of these have included EOIs from group 4. Not one EOI from this group scoring less than 135 points has been selected.

        There are more stats to be taken from these changes (for example selection points rising), but hopefully this outlines a steadily tightening on EOIs being selected.
        • Mike 13.3.1.1

          1 June 2014 at 1:08 pm

          Correction:

          Apologies, in my excitement to post statistics I made a rather glaring error which I must now correct by way of a reply.

          The residence programme and quota I refer to relates to all residence visas, not just the Skilled Migrant Category (SMC) which means I have understated my figures by leaving other groups out.

          So as noted, the SMC will deliver around 72,693 over the 3 year quota. Other categories should be added to this which have not been changed over recent years:
          – The rest of the business/skilled category of around 5,500;
          – International Humanitarian of 9,600
          – Capped family of 13,200; and
          – Uncapped family of 33,900.

          So to the 72,693 I should also add 56,700 from these other streams over the past 3 years – a total of 129,393 against a quota of between 135,000 and 150,000.
14. Paul 14

    31 May 2014 at 11:54 am

    Typical biased and poor journalism by the corporate media.
    Apparently NZ is now the lucky country again as people flock back here from Australia.
    No mention of the election of Abbott and a sea change of policy there as a result. No mention of the weakening mineral economy there.
    Just a puff piece trying to link the increasing migration to our wonderful leader John Key and his wonderful stewardship of this country.
    Pravda would be envious of the uniformity of our mainstream corporate media.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10105555/NZ-now-the-lucky-country
    • Olwyn 14.1

      31 May 2014 at 5:58 pm

      My relatives in Australia tell me that even taking Joe Hockey’s budget into account, they still have a long way to go to catch up with us in the race to the bottom. Moreover, the Australian public are not looking as if they will take the budget lying down.
15. dimebag russell 15

    31 May 2014 at 11:57 am

    sudenly lying has become the new truth and the sad little righties at Radio New Zealand cant see it.
    • Paul 15.1

      31 May 2014 at 12:07 pm

      I agree with you, but would love to know what story prompted you to write this.
16. Tigger 16

    31 May 2014 at 12:04 pm

    Internet Mana getting bashed. MSM wilfully misinterpreting Labour on Immigration. The right is very scared.
    • newsense 16.1

      1 June 2014 at 12:19 am

      Or trying to hobble the horse before it leaves the gate. Only IM has the backing of Kim Dotcom who has already had much more sympathetic press and much less bagging from media outlets than DC…

      Harre also is an example of a younger, strong (or youthfully energetic!) female leader on the left whereas Labour’s female caucus with the occasional exceptions of Louisa Wall and Sue Moroney, I don’t recall having much profile in recent times. Under Helen’s leadership the left really counted on the female vote, at the moment it’s OK, but not quite as good as it was.
17. geoff 17

    31 May 2014 at 1:18 pm

    Thanks, National.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10105818/Women-and-children-living-in-parks
    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      31 May 2014 at 1:25 pm

      And tie this together with a coming flood from across the Tasman of struggling and recently unemployed Kiwis…
    • Paul 17.2

      31 May 2014 at 1:30 pm

      Good billboard heading Geoff. ….’Thanks National.’
      Here’s my ‘Thanks National’ entry.
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10091051/Mental-health-wards-clogged-with-the-homeless

      Maybe we could have a post on this…to demonstrate what this disgusting government are allowing to happen in this once great country.
      • Paul 17.2.1

        31 May 2014 at 1:34 pm

        Thanks, National.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/10084127/Bylaw-targets-begging-in-public-places
        • Paul 17.2.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 1:42 pm

          Thanks, National.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11260767
      • geoff 17.2.2

        31 May 2014 at 2:06 pm

        Good idea, Paul.
        • phillip ure 17.2.2.1

          31 May 2014 at 2:15 pm

          good idea paul..

          ..needs it’s own blip-stylings list…

          .’thanks national’..works a treat..

          ..crowd-source the rest..

          ..often the fewest words say the most..
    • Draco T Bastard 17.3

      31 May 2014 at 2:25 pm

      We shouldn’t be surprised. Once we started following the same policies as those used in the 19th century it was inevitable that we would end with the same results – increasing poverty and desperation for the many (especially women) while the rich get richer.
18. Populuxe1 18

    31 May 2014 at 2:36 pm

    I’ve noticed some changes in ACT. Is it just me or have they toned down the extremism a bit. Putting the corporate tax-rate in line with the top tax rate actually seems quite sensible to discourage tax avoidance, which seems most un ACT-like. Urgh, now I feel dirty.
    • bad12 18.1

      31 May 2014 at 3:48 pm

      Populuxe1, ???? a robust tax collection agency staffed with enough bodies to effectively pursue and prosecute all tax avoiders along with robust Legislation that threw the fucking lot of them in a jail cell seems the sensible way to discourage tax avoidance,

      Cutting the tax rate for corporate tax avoiders will simply encourage them all to keep doing it in the belief that the slight risk of being caught is far out-weighed by the benefits of expected ongoing tax cuts…
      • Populuxe1 18.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 3:57 pm

        Or, you know, we could just have a secret police monitoring everyone.
        • Draco T Bastard 18.1.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 6:18 pm

          We’ve already got that.
          • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1.1

            31 May 2014 at 9:17 pm

            You conspiracy theory whack-job
    • Tracey 18.2

      31 May 2014 at 6:30 pm

      interestingly ACT and nationals attitude to tax avoiders is to drop tax rates. Their attitude to welfare fraud is not to raise benefits to make them liveable.
19. Paul 19

    31 May 2014 at 3:29 pm

    The state of corporate media in NZ.
    The Herald’s top 5 headlines on line at the moment.

    Man attacked by seal
    Defiant Cairns’ new fight
    My battle with concussion
    Boob job’ holidays lure Kiwi women
    Monaco’s Princess Charlene is pregnant

    To the editors of the Herald a message….
    “I think it’s time you lost your job mate.
    NZ has a huge problem – nobody bothers to vote… and it’s not because it doesn’t matter, it does… it’s because you useless, worthless, pathetically inadequate people from “the media”, report the news as though it is a type of celebrity gossip.
    Here’s an idea: The purpose of the 4th Estate is to create an informed voting public.
    If after a year fewer than 50% of people can name more than 2 policies from the major parties, you lose your job.
    Fewer than 20%, and you go to prison – for criminal negligence.
    Reckon that might change your “reporting” style slightly?
    I think it might.”
    • Populuxe1 19.1

      31 May 2014 at 4:00 pm

      Or maybe it’s just the inevitable market response to most people getting their news and classifieds on the internet for free. Here’s a suggestion, find some news sources on line that appeal to you and stop moaning about the irrelevant.
      • Paul 19.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 4:25 pm

        I do source my news from other sources.
        Not moaning …observing the dumbed down content of the corporate news.
        I would imagine the paper copy of the Herald contains much the same.
      • Colonial Viper 19.1.2

        31 May 2014 at 4:29 pm

        Nice subservience to the rule of markets, mate. And no recognition of the importance of a well informed citizenry and a sharp fourth estate in the maintenance of liberal democracy. There can be no sensible civil or political discourse if everyone is starting from a different page of “facts” due to the lack of reliability of key news sources.

        In fact your suggestion to ‘just find a different news source’ is emblematic of seeing the world from the perspective of a consumer making market choices.
        • Populuxe1 19.1.2.1

          31 May 2014 at 7:58 pm

          Sort of live voting then
    • phillip ure 19.2

      31 May 2014 at 7:16 pm

      @ paul..there are alternatives..

      “..The dream of libertarian technotopia – floating startup nations..”

      “..10 disgustingly rich companies – that will do anything to avoid paying taxes..”

      “..The Gadgets and Gear We Loved Most This Month..”

      “..a guy who has spent six months – and more than $32,000 – turning the bedroom of his Manhattan apartment into an old-school video arcade..”

      “..Tech Time Warp of the Week: Watch a Young Sergey Brin Predict the Mobile Revolution in Wheelie Sneakers..”

      “..Your Newfangled Media Algorithms are Bullshit..”

      “..William S. Burroughs: His Final Years and Lasting Legacy..”

      “..She: The Raunchiest of 60′s Girl Groups..”

      “..Finally – a Fair Trade Smartphone..”

      “..Big Dairy Is Putting Microscopic Pieces of Metal in Your Food..”

      “..How Sexist Is Your Favorite Video Game?..”

      “..Video – Edward Snowden Interview with NBC Brian Williams..”

      “..Memo Outlines Obama’s Plan to Use the Military Against Citizens..”

      “..No Longer an Inner City Problem: Today’s Typical Heroin Users Are White People in the Suburbs..”

      “..Why watching too much porn could be bad for the brain..”

      “..Paul Krugman:..Cutting Back on Carbon..”

      “..12 Unfortunate Restaurant Truths – That Will Make You Think Twice About Eating Out..”

      “..Could Root Canals Soon Be A Thing Of The Past?..”

      “..House’s Pro-Medical Marijuana Vote – Shocks Even Longtime Supporters..” (+comment:..the ‘cruel’ medical-marijuana policies in new zealand..)

      “..How to Grow Pot During a Drought..”


      “..Glenn Greenwald to Publish Names of Americans NSA Spied On..”

      “..11 Kinds of Bible Verses Christians Love to Ignore..”

      “..Thousands of Workers Exploited – as Greedy Universities Grab Petrodollars to Globalise and Corporatise..”

      “..5 Companies Ripping Off America – and the Simple Tax Change That Could Make Them Pay Up..”

      “..The age of climate warfare is here. The military-industrial complex is ready. Are you?..”

      “..’Is email dead already?’ – my latest moment of modernity vertigo..”

      “..Life after Silk Road: how the darknet drugs market is booming..”

      “..How I survived on Soylent for a week..” (video..)

      “..Little Mix’s Salute – this week’s best new track..”

      “..The Playlist: electronic..”

      “..Forget Avatar: these are the five most ridiculous film-to-stage adaptations..” (+ comment:..a cirquo du soleil mini-anti-review..)

      “..Google smartwatch: how it will work..”

      “..North Korea unveils new mushroom sports drink..”

      “..A brief history of computers on TV – from Star Trek to Silicon Valley..”

      “..Apple chief Tim Cook is under pressure to prove innovative flair is still there..”

      “..Blair should ask Chilcot to publish full Iraq letters to Bush – says Major..”

      “..Jill Goldson: Top 5 complaints of couples who live together..”

      “..Nats’ mates put mud in the milk..”

      breaking news..!..commercial-breakfast food gets a healthy-uptick..!

      “..Punslinging in Texas: at the world pun championships..”


      ..that’s some..not all..of what i found/linked to today…
20. Draco T Bastard 20

    31 May 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Government looks to regulate how WaterCare can charge developers. Is the government, as @TransportBlog put it, afraid that people will start to realise the true costs of sprawl?
21. Marius 21

    31 May 2014 at 3:45 pm

    the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues. More illegal settlements being hurriedly put up by israel in direct contravention of international law. I seriously cannot wait til world opinion finally makes the U.S cut the strings from this loud mouthed puppet
    • Populuxe1 21.1

      31 May 2014 at 4:02 pm

      Obama has been a lot tougher with Israel than any previous US president – it’s a trend that I hope continues. The dissenting left-wing voice within Israel also needs to get more global coverage and recognition.
    • swordfish 21.2

      31 May 2014 at 5:27 pm

      Spot on, Marius. Excellent comment.

      Have to disagree with you, Populuxe. Despite all the carefully-crafted rhetoric and elaborate pantomime, the Kerry mission is very much about forcing a reliant and compliant Palestinian Authority into accepting US/Israeli dictates – essentially the so-called “Separation Wall” as the final border. Thus destroying any hope of a viable Palestinian State. The US is not and never has been an honest broker in this fraudulent “Peace Process.”

      And yet I’ll also take this opportunity to apologise to you for using you name a few days ago. Fucking stupid thing to do. No excuses. Sorry about that. And very lucky not to be banned.
      • Bearded Git 21.2.1

        31 May 2014 at 5:56 pm

        +1 Sword. You are wrong Populuxe. After good signs early in his presidency Obama has turned out to be as craven as the rest in his support for Israel.

        After years of watching this issue I think that unfortunately the 2-state solution is dead. Israel should absorb the West Bank and Gaza into the country and give all citizens full and equal rights.

        Squadron of pigs flying over my house…….
22. fisiani 22

    31 May 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Looking at all the glee here re the chance of Davy and the GIMPS (Green/Internet/Mana/Peters) becoming the government . Yet according to ipredict which is and has proven to be the most accurate polling device there is, the chance of there being a Labour PM on September 21st is just 25.8% Buying 1000 stocks would cost you just $258 and will return a whopping $1000 return on election night. Quadruple your money in just 4 months. Remember though this means using real money not just keyboard bluster. Prove the market wrong. Get National supporters to pay you $742 to have an election night party. Will you put your money where your keyboard is? I have.
    Let me be clear if the GIMPs win and you invest just $25.80 you have a $100 bar tab on election night.
    • Paul 22.1

      31 May 2014 at 4:26 pm

      The new RWNJ meme.
      Do you have individual thoughts?
    • Clemgeopin 22.2

      31 May 2014 at 4:36 pm

      How much have you shorted against a Labour led government and how much for a National led government?
      • fisiani 22.2.1

        31 May 2014 at 5:04 pm

        Shorting both makes no sense. Suffice to say I’m buying Laphroig on election night.
        • Clemgeopin 22.2.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 5:17 pm

          I know what shorting means. I was referring to shortening only with reference to Labour. What did you put long on National to lead?

          For election night, I recommend for you Ultra Premium tequila Ley .925 Pasion Azteca and a sombrero, get melancholy and sing like a hair pulling frustrated mad Mexican.
    • Draco T Bastard 22.3

      31 May 2014 at 6:27 pm

      Yet according to ipredict which is and has proven to be the most accurate polling device there is,

      [citation needed]
      • Tracey 22.3.1

        31 May 2014 at 6:34 pm

        And everyone has spare cash to gamble, and apparently if you dont have money to gamble on the unregulated ipredict your opinion is worthless.
        • fisiani 22.3.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 10:32 pm

          Its not gambling when its a certainty.
      • fisiani 22.3.2

        31 May 2014 at 10:33 pm

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1111/S00739/ipredict-accuracy-blitzes-traditional-polls.htm
        • Draco T Bastard 22.3.2.1

          31 May 2014 at 10:46 pm

          A press release by the ipredict isn’t credible research.
          • TheContrarian 22.3.2.1.1

            31 May 2014 at 11:10 pm

            How about an independent university then…

            http://www.infonews.co.nz/news.cfm?id=35442

            edit: Rob Salmod to be specific:
            http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/96143/online-prediction-service-seen-as-more-accurate-than-polls

            edit 2: And Uni. Victoria:
            http://salient.org.nz/news/ipredict-you-predict-we-all-predict
          • fisiani 22.3.2.1.2

            31 May 2014 at 11:19 pm

            Clutching at straws. Give me a reason why ipredict rates Labour’s chances so lowly.
            • McFlock 22.3.2.1.2.1

              31 May 2014 at 11:40 pm

              This the ipredict that was more “accurate” six months out than just before the election?
              If its multimonth averages were “accurate” then that requires a static level of support for all parties throughout the election campaign (so why do parties need to spend money campaigning? I suggest national save money to rove the point).

              The most likely explanation is that idiots prepared to bet on politics need a frivoilous attitude to their large amounts of disposable $$, so are more likely to be tories.
23. Marius 23

    31 May 2014 at 4:31 pm

    My facts and figures accuracy regarding which u.s presidents has assisted less in the systematic brutality in Palestine by israel over many years now isn’t sharp enough to dispute your claim, pop. I’m really not interested in which one wins the soap on a rope prize for helping them the least. Although, I don’t think it is obama – because he sure is bending over forwards to make life easy for them. The dissenting voices within israel are being shut down big time. Yes, more global coverage regarding israels war crimes would be great.
24. karol 24

    31 May 2014 at 6:17 pm

    Some jokster nominated Ian Wishart for Green award.

    The ministry was not amused. A spokesman said Mr Wishart’s nomination failed to proceed to the next round.

    The nomination was made by “David Slack”. The satirist and speech writer of that name said he was not responsible for the nomination.

    “I wish I’d thought of it.”
25. Tracey 25

    31 May 2014 at 6:31 pm

    lisa owens i terviews of twyford and smith today on the nation should be compulsory trainingfor all journalists.

    Scoop has the transcripts.
    • karol 25.1

      31 May 2014 at 6:44 pm

      Oh. Nick Smith proudly says the first home he bought was an ex state house.
      • Tracey 25.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 6:51 pm

        Yup… And note what he avoided… I thought owen did a good job on both of them and its what we used to have in our political journalists, challenge everyone equally.
26. joe90 26

    31 May 2014 at 6:37 pm

    Marijuana in Uruguay, a short documentary, the rules and criticism.

    .

    http://www.vice.com/weediquette-show/the-cannabis-republic-of-uruguay-full-length

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/06/world/americas/uruguay-marijuana-rules/

    https://www.dinafem.org/en/blog/alicia-castilla-marijuana/
27. chris73 27

    31 May 2014 at 8:29 pm

    Well NZ politics is getting very interesting isn’t…for the voters it seems like a choice between steady as she goes and the completely untested

    (I still think John Key will be leader after the dust settles)
    • felix 27.1

      31 May 2014 at 8:47 pm

      The choice is clear.

      Continue down the slippery slope of surrendering our sovereignty to foreign private capital,

      or return to a focus on sensible practical governance in the interests of ordinary New Zealanders.
      • chris73 27.1.1

        31 May 2014 at 8:50 pm

        You could apply that in two different ways
        • felix 27.1.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 9:04 pm

          No, not really. There is only one side of politics trying to sell our country.
          • chris73 27.1.1.1.1

            31 May 2014 at 9:12 pm

            Well I agree with you
      • srylands 27.1.2

        31 May 2014 at 10:14 pm

        If you don’t want foreign capital you better get saving then.
        • chris73 27.1.2.1

          31 May 2014 at 10:16 pm

          German foreign capital is apparently ok though 😉
          • felix 27.1.2.1.1

            1 June 2014 at 5:19 am

            Hint for the willfully obtuse: it’s the “surrendering our sovereignty” bit that’s the problem, not the “foreign capital” bit.

            🙄
    • blue leopard 27.2

      31 May 2014 at 8:58 pm

      @C73
      There are a number of options for the outcome of this election depending on what mix of parties people end up voting for – more options are available than what you state in your first sentence.

      I am puzzled as to why you missed out the no-ideas and tested-and-failed option of National in your first sentence if you are so sure that Key will be leader – why not even mention the option he represents if you are so confident?
    • Clemgeopin 27.3

      31 May 2014 at 9:45 pm

      I still think John Key will be leader after the dust settles</Blockquote)>

      Thoughts are free! Hope you have a good capacity to withstand disappointment in case National loses. Will you be too sad if Key flies off to Hawaii, USA, sometime soon after the election in case National/ACT are gone burgers?
      • chris73 27.3.1

        31 May 2014 at 9:50 pm

        No not really, I mean at the end of the day a change in government doesn’t really affect most peoples daily lives and what both sides are promising in the way of bribes seem to be more geared towards families so whoever wins changes my circumstances not a jot

        Unless a CGT is seriously enforced and then it might butI I’m confident there’ll be loopholes in there
        • weka 27.3.1.1

          31 May 2014 at 10:16 pm

          You want to be bribed by a political party?
          • chris73 27.3.1.1.1

            31 May 2014 at 10:19 pm

            Well it’d be nice, for once, that when a political party starts throwing out bribes that one of the bribes ackshully does something for me is all
            • weka 27.3.1.1.1.1

              31 May 2014 at 10:32 pm

              So no political party has ever put up policy that is good for you personally?
              • chris73 …

                31 May 2014 at 10:40 pm

                Of course some policies have been good for me but I’m talking specific bribe policies like WFF or top tax rates coming down, even one like Labours student loan didn’t do all that much for me as my debt was small and I paid it off as soon as I could
                • weka …

                  31 May 2014 at 10:49 pm

                  Do you mean policies announced during an election campaign, or budget, or something like that?
                  • chris73 …

                    31 May 2014 at 10:57 pm

                    WFF was a helluva bribe, don’t get me wrong it was very well done by Helen Clark and Nationals reducing the top tax rate was also a targeted bribe as well but as for me I’m not a student anymore (thank goodness), I don’t have kids, aren’t poor (but not yet well off) so I’m just the sort that doesn’t get targeted by any party
                    • felix …

                      1 June 2014 at 5:15 am

                      I’m not sure I understand the distinction you’re drawing between “policies” and “bribes”.

                      Are you saying you’ve never benefited from a govt policy?
                    • fender …

                      23 June 2014 at 9:56 pm

                      You could vote Green Chris73, they are the only party talking tax cuts

                      Sorry to hear you sounding so sad sack, unable to get bribed, you poor wee thing. See if you can get a house call from Woodhouse or Key to cheer you up, or ask head office for some National Party stickers or a pen…
                • Descendant Of Sssmith …

                  1 June 2014 at 6:08 pm

                  Nah WFF wasn’t a bribe.

                  It was a continuation of neo-liberal policy to subsidise employers who won’t pay a decent wage.

                  Just like part of WFF excluded those on benefit even though those on benefit earn considerably less than those working.

                  Just like the $20-00 per week that Ruth Richardson had taken off beneficiaries wasn’t put back in order to incentivise working for low wages – not forgetting that young people were further disadvantaged by extending youth rates to 25 from 18.

                  Just like the extension of accommodation supplement to low income earners was to both subsidise low wages and landlords.
                  • Draco T Bastard …

                    1 June 2014 at 6:18 pm

                    +1

                    Once you start looking you find a lot of government subsidies of the private sector.
        • Instauration 27.3.1.2

          1 June 2014 at 5:55 pm

          CGT ? Capital Greed Tax !
28. meconism 28

    31 May 2014 at 8:31 pm

    I noticed this week that Harre, Meteria and Cunliffe all used the phrase ‘progressive’ when talking about their end of the political spectrum. It as like they had all read the same memo. ‘Progressive’ rather than left. I heard them on the one day, perhaps that is why I noticed it. Anyway, I marked it as a shift in tone, less threatening, left becomes easily associated with , f’ar’ and ‘loopy’. I thought it was a good decision.
    • phillip ure 28.1

      1 June 2014 at 6:36 am

      and the opposition are ‘the regressives’…
29. Morrissey 29

    23 June 2014 at 8:06 pm

    The trial of Tony Blair
    Essay of the week by NEIL MACKAY
    Sunday 22 June 2014

    THE CHARGE: That Tony Blair, former UK prime minister, in lock-step with US policy, deliberately misled Britain, its parliament and people, into the catastrophe of the illegal invasion of Iraq in March 2003 that resulted in the deaths of at least 100,000 people – a crime against peace and humanity – and in doing so created the circumstances that have brought Iraq to the brink of ruination today.

    THE DEFENCE: Last week, the accused issued a statement in his defence, claiming that the capture of large swathes of Iraq by the Islamic terrorist group Isis – an organisation too extreme for al Qaeda – had nothing to do with the invasion he and then US president George W Bush executed upon the lie that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMD) that threatened the West. Blair said: “We have to liberate ourselves from the notion that ‘we’ have caused this. We haven’t.”

    Exhibit A: Rebuilding America’s Defences, the founding document of The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) . The PNAC was effectively the Bush cabinet-in-waiting prior to the 2000 election. It included Dick Cheney, who went on to become vice-president; Donald Rumsfeld, defence secretary; Bush’s brother, Jeb; Lewis Libby, Cheney’s chief of staff; Paul Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld’s deputy; and other key members of the Bush administration. This was the “brain” of the neo-conservative movement hell-bent on regime change in Iraq. Blair was fully signed up to the neo-con vision, their ideology providing a key motive for the crime in question.

    Rebuilding America’s Defences was the foundation for the Bush-Blair doctrine of pre-emption. Written in September 2000, just months before the Bush election, it said: “The United States has for decades fought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.”

    In other words, even if Saddam were removed from power, America would still want troops in the Gulf. Rebuilding America’s Defences talks of “a blueprint for maintaining global US pre-eminence” and a “Pax Americana”, which would require the US and its allies to “fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars as a ‘core mission’.”

    Exhibit B: The receipts from Iraq for the sale of weapons of mass destruction from Britain and America. Details of sales of WMD to Saddam up to 1989 are contained in a Senate report into US exports, called the Riegle Report. Saddam is known to have used WMD in 1988 against the Kurds – in the town of Halabja, up to 5,000 were gassed. The attack took place when Saddam was engaged in the Iran-Iraq war against Ayatollah Khomeini and was, in the language of US-UK diplomacy, “a son of a bitch, but our son of a bitch”. ….

    Read more….
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/the-trial-of-tony-blair.24526819
    • ianmac 29.1

      23 June 2014 at 9:06 pm

      Note that recently Kerry was warning that ISIS were a serious threat not only to Iraq but also the whole world. Sounds familiar? Same as Bush and WMD being a threat and justification because the whole world was at risk.
      And yes. that supply of gas for the Saddam units to deal to Iran (and they did) and to the Kurds in the North. (and they did.)
30. Morrissey 30

    23 June 2014 at 8:38 pm

    Glenn Greenwald to dummkopf: “That is total bullshit!”

    Greenwald attempts to school that dimwitted faux-liberal Bill Maher, and a moronic ex-grunt called Paul Rieckhoff. The woman in the middle wisely stays silent.

    “It is safer to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than to confront a fool caught in foolishness.”
    —Proverbs 17:12

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38893.htm

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