Shock horror, National is telling fibs about Labour’s Industrial Relations policy

Written By: - Date published: 8:00 am, June 27th, 2018 - 102 comments
Categories: Economy, jacinda ardern, making shit up, national, poverty, same old national, Simon Bridges, spin, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, twitter, Unions, wages, workers' rights, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

National is still trying to find this Government’s weaknesses.

It is that desperate it is going back to techniques that worked well back in 1975. It is attacking Labour over Industrial Relations and strike action.

The reality is that the attack is tenuous.

Sure there has been much more talk about strikes than there has been for a number of years. Workers who after a decade of cost accounting approaches to wage increases think that the new Government will be more receptive to the idea of giving them wage increases. So of course there is greater interest.  There is a lot of pent up pressure for wage increases.

But National is that desperate it is getting to the stupid stage of its analysis. And the dishonest.

Take for instance this from Radio New Zealand:

National leader Simon Bridges claims New Zealand has had more strikes and threats of industrial action under the present government than during the previous National government’s entire nine years in power.

National is keen to paint the current government as union-friendly – and said that meant more strikes.

Mr Bridges said that in under nine months, 32,000 workers had either been involved in industrial action or signaled an intention to do so.

He said this number far exceeded the 27,000 workers who took part in strike action during National’s three terms in power.

“This is remarkable. In nine months under this government we’ve seen more strikes in terms of people out there wanting to do it and doing it, than we saw in nine years under a National-led government,” Mr Bridges said.

His claims are reinforced by this tweet:

But let’s analyse the detail.  National is claiming that more workers have gone on strike OR indicated they may go on strike during this term than went on strike during the last Government’s term.

This is like saying because the number of homeless kids under this Government AND the number of kids who do not own Xboxes is greater than the number of homeless kids there were under the last Government things are getting worse.

Surely you say this cannot be true.  Well Alex Braae at the Spinoff has looked at the figures and shown cases where threatened but called off strike action has not been included in National’s figures.  He also identifies a strike that did occur, Junior Doctors in 2016, that has not been included in National’s analysis.  So the analysis is sloppy as well as comparing different things.

This is the sort of thing that you say when you sacrifice all pretence to wanting the support of people who understand statistics and only want the support of people who hate unions.

But this is not an unfortunate lapse of concentration on the part of National. It appears to be a design feature.

Because National came out with this tweet yesterday.

And Te Reo Putake had the perfect response.

TRP is dead right.  The problem is that National’s use of the video is, to use that word you use when you want to say something even stronger, disingenuous.

Jacinda Ardern did not give a “rock solid guarantee” there would be no national strikes.  She said there would be no national strikes as a result of the introduction of Labour’s proposed Fair Pay Agreement collective bargaining system.  Here is the video if you need proof (at 59:05).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ch1k1bz7Rc&feature=youtu.be&t=3540

Labour has consistently said that strikes and lockouts will be banned during bargaining negotiations under the Fair Pay Agreement collective bargaining system.

The discussion actually went like this.  The bolded words are the words that National trimmed from its video.

Hosking: In these one to two of these [negotiations] per year will you go back to seeing national strikes in an Industry

Ardern: No, no, we will not

Hosking: And that is a rock solid guarantee

Ardern: Yes, no we will not

National took Ardern’s comments out of context and actually shaved some of Mike Hosking’s words off to change completely the meaning of what was said.

And compare what was actually said to the contents of National’s tweet.  National’s social media gurus have taken Jacinda’s comment totally out of context and then misrepresented it.

Maybe they are that stupid they truly did not understand.  Maybe not.

So what sort of political discourse are we going to haven Aotearoa New Zealand?  One where the right and the left throw ideas at each other and rely on the good sense of the community at large to determine who should be trusted?  Or one where one side tells fibs and distorts?

Judging by National’s behaviour over the strike data the chances of an informed contest of ideas are not good.

102 comments on “Shock horror, National is telling fibs about Labour’s Industrial Relations policy ”

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  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1
    27 June 2018 at 8:12 am

    If the National Party told the truth about their policy agenda people would question why they’re advocating a slow civil war.

    Of course they have to lie about it.

    • Gosman 1.1
      27 June 2018 at 9:20 am

      A slow civil war???

      • ropata 1.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 12:46 pm

        Yes by dividing the nation into haves/have nots. Vilifying the poor. Selling out to foreigners and corporates. Working for the 1% and using dirty politics to split the 99% against each other. Importing 500000 foreigners in 10 years and pushing Kiwis out of housing and welfare.

        The Nats are dangerous parasitic class of selfish fuckwits who will stop at nothing to regain power. Lying and disdain for democracy is their MO and shit for brains Nat sycophants lap it up

        • Gosman 1.1.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 12:57 pm

          Then pretty much the entire planet is in the midst of this slow civil war. How’s it working out for you?

          • ropata 1.1.1.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 2:10 pm

            I am fine but poorer NZers are not. Class war is real.

            • Gosman 1.1.1.1.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 2:22 pm

              If you’re stuck in a 1930’s mindset.

              • ropata …
                27 June 2018 at 2:27 pm

                Don’t get out much do you? We have been heading back that way for decades

              • Tricledrown …
                27 June 2018 at 9:57 pm

                Goose man your stuck in Fuedal times
                Dickensian times.
                If not for 1930’s labour /labor movements your education would not reached very high levels.
                You wouldn’t be a landlord so you would be a serf.

              • R.P Mcmurphy …
                29 June 2018 at 6:43 pm

                class warfare has been going on since the priest first seized control 5,000 years ago. the thirties were just an expression of the same impulse to drive the workers into the dust. if your comprehension of history only goes back eighty years then you should bone up on reality.

      • R.P Mcmurphy 1.1.2
        29 June 2018 at 6:39 pm

        Yep.

  2. Sabine 2
    27 June 2018 at 8:22 am

    Simon Bridges and the No mates Party lying. Who would have thought.

  3. Ross 3
    27 June 2018 at 9:29 am

    Its worth noting that there are restrictions now on when strikes (and lockouts) can legally take place. For instance workers in an essential industry cannot strike unless the correct notice has been given. Workers cannot strike if such action is being taken within 40 days of negotiations beginning, or theres a current collective agreement etc. The suggestion that workers can strike when they feel like it is a Tory myth.

    https://www.employment.govt.nz/starting-employment/unions-and-bargaining/strikes-and-lockouts/

  4. Ross 4
    27 June 2018 at 9:38 am

    Gordon Campbell makes the point that strikes are a last resort, not that you would know that by listening to Simple Simon.

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/06/gordon-campbell-on-nationals-deliberate-fear-mongering-about-strikes-and-industrial-action/

  5. Bill 5
    27 June 2018 at 10:05 am

    Am I reading the general thrust of this post correctly?

    The argument seems to be that workers aspirations need to be kept in check, and that NZ Labour will be the equal of National in that endeavour…and that that’s a good thing!

    I don’t understand this universe that would have us approve of NZ Labour putting even more proscriptions around industrial action.

    • adam 5.1
      27 June 2018 at 10:35 am

      Thanks Bill, I was reading this getting quite a sick feeling. It’s like the nat’s can lie, but it takes labour to keep workers into line.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2
      27 June 2018 at 10:47 am

      +111

    • mickysavage 5.3
      27 June 2018 at 11:09 am

      Not at all. The article is about the extended spin National is relying on to bolster its claims and how their claims are untrue. Nothing more should be read into it.

      The post says “[t]here is a lot of pent up pressure for wage increases”.

      • Bill 5.3.1
        27 June 2018 at 11:48 am

        I fully get that the dominant theme’s meant to be about the lies of the National Party.

        But when lies are illustrated by mounting a defence around labour (the work force) having engaged in no more industrial action under NZ Labour than under National, and neutrally pointing to NZ Labour being in the throes of proscribing strike action around national awards, well…

        it’s fighting a losing fight on terms set down by an opposition that just reinforces a basic idea they peddle – ie, industrial action is bad.

        The National Party are disingenuous scum.
        Workers aren’t taking industrial action to improve their lot.
        NZ Labour are passing legislation to proscribe industrial action.

        Decry, lament and condemn.

        • Ross 5.3.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 12:14 pm

          NZ Labour are passing legislation to proscribe industrial action.

          But as I explained above, there are already limits around when and how industrial action can be taken now and that applies to employees and employers.

          Workers aren’t taking industrial action to improve their lot.

          What then are they taking industrial action over, if not to improve their lot?

          • Bill 5.3.1.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 12:47 pm

            I know NZ has highly restrictive Labour Laws. Are you saying that adding another layer of proscription is okay? Surely not.

            Second cut and pasted quote’s kinda cute. Pretty damned sure you understood the intended meaning of what I wrote.

            • Ross 5.3.1.1.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 9:43 pm

              Another layer of proscription? We already have laws around when workers can and cannot strike so I’m not sure it’s another layer. It seems entirely reasonable that employees shouldn’t strike, or be locked out, while negotiating in good faith. An entire section of the ERA talks about good faith. It’s pretty important.

              I know NZ has highly restrictive Labour Laws.

              I have no idea what those are but it’s a line that employers use now and again. And, no, I don’t know what you meant.

        • mickysavage 5.3.1.2
          27 June 2018 at 1:46 pm

          My perhaps foggy memory is that strikes during award negotiations were illegal.

          The post is not meant to say this is right or wrong. It is to point out that what National has been saying about labour’s position is demonstrably wrong.

          • marty mars 5.3.1.2.1
            27 June 2018 at 1:52 pm

            Yes I read the post as being about the lies of the gnats and how desperate for traction they are rather than a critique of policy itself.

      • Michelle 5.3.2
        27 June 2018 at 2:51 pm

        The problem is Mickey they got away with the spin for so long they think they can continue with the same old bull but finally the light has come on for some of our fellow kiwis hooray! . Unfortunately we still have too many that vote and think only about themselves rather than what is better for our country.

  6. Anne 6
    27 June 2018 at 10:15 am

    The Muldoon play-book between 1975 and 1984 is back in vogue. Scare tactics, lying, cheating, demonising and bullying were the hall marks of the Muldoon leadership.

  7. Kat 7
    27 June 2018 at 10:36 am

    Its quite clear and has been for many years, National will do and say anything to be in power and keep Labour out of power. That is what the National party is increasingly all about and running the country prosperously for all is a game plan to be avoided at all cost.

  8. Draco T Bastard 8
    27 June 2018 at 10:46 am

    Or one where one side tells fibs and distorts?

    National (and the right-wing in general) has to lie else very few would vote for them.

    Their actual policy goals are actually that bad for the majority of people. Follow National’s policy prescriptions and they will collapse society by creating ever more poverty and deprivation.

    • indiana 8.1
      27 June 2018 at 10:57 am

      You are absolutely right! After Labour took office the number of people living in cars dried up overnight…no more stories are being shopped to the media because there are no stories to push.

  9. Chris T 9
    27 June 2018 at 10:55 am

    Tis pretty funny, but please don’t tell me that out of the two major parties only National manipulates facts to push their message in opposition as that would be a bit silly.

    Or in power, to be frank, but to a lesser degree, as more analysis of their claims is done

    • Nick 9.1
      27 June 2018 at 11:26 am

      Chris…..’manipulated’ “facts” you say….. so the Natz edit into a lie, but you still read it as a “fact”?

  10. marty mars 10
    27 June 2018 at 11:14 am

    Yep TRP was correct – maybe he could do a guest post as he is very knowledgeable about this as are you Mickey 😁

    The gnats have kept their boot on the throat of the worker for nine long tears (apt typo) and it makes sense that when that pressure is taken off, it takes a while to regain equilibrium. As someone who has benefited, by the strong labour-union relationship, over recent weeks, I still have heaps of hope that any action will be quick and effective.

    • gsays 10.1
      28 June 2018 at 11:11 am

      You and I, both, are hoping for a swift resolution.
      The nurses started negotiating with the previous national regime, hence the industrial action now.

  11. James(uncommon) 11
    27 June 2018 at 11:15 am

    I started writing more but basically: shit like this works on the selfish, lazy citizens (the majority).

  12. veutoviper 12
    27 June 2018 at 11:21 am

    As well as the link to the RNZ Checkpoint item last night on National’s claims, it is well worth listening to the earlier RNZ Morning Report interview with Winston Peters:

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/360415/peters-on-strike-action-they-know-we-ll-listen

    The first half of the exchange on Bridges’s Question 2 to Peters, as Acting PM, also gives context to the later Checkpoint item, with both the Speaker and Peters batting away Bridges’ claims with ease. Again, Bridges’ questions/claims take some issues out of context – eg JA;s statement about nationalwide strike action and Peters reiterates his earlier remarks on Morning Report:

    Video https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201091

    Hansard https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20180626_20180626_12

    (In the second half of Q2, Peters’ strong defence of David Parker vis a vis Bridges’ question about Parker’s relationship with Darby is interesting as is his challenge to Bridges to make the claims outside of Parliament. LOL)

    • mickysavage 12.1
      27 June 2018 at 11:38 am

      Thanks VV. Peters’s treatment of Bridges is masterful!

      • patricia bremner 12.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 1:34 pm

        Winston’s empathy for repressed workers’ hopes for improved conditions and pay came across clearly, as did his belief in negotiation and fairness.

        Sadly “fairness” is not in the Nat rule book, being devious and causing dissension is

        This twisting phrases out of context is a stupid ploy, as the internet quickly allows comparisons, to Bridges detriment.

        Thanks V.V. If Bridges thought he could dent the PM through attacking the Acting PM, he has had a harsh lesson. Bennett’s eye rolling LOL LOL. doesn’t help Simon

    • Gabby 12.2
      27 June 2018 at 3:43 pm

      I look forward to Slick’s explanation when Soozie asks him why he lied.

    • Kevin 12.3
      28 June 2018 at 9:12 am

      The interesting thing for me about the one sided verbal joust in Parliament was Paula Bennett.

      She started off all smiles and as each minute passed the smile disappeared bit by bit to the point where she was probably mentally saying, “Simon, shut the fuck up”.

      Bridges was no match for Winston. who was clearly disappointed at the level of discourse.

      I hope Bridges stays as National leader for a very long time.

  13. Ad 13
    27 June 2018 at 11:30 am

    Arguing against pay increases for tens of thousands of New Zealanders is moronic.

    Excluding the top 3%, we all need to be paid more.

    Great that we still have our biggest remaining union – the state – now willing to really shell out.

  14. Enough is Enough 14
    27 June 2018 at 2:08 pm

    You are very defensive about the National Party.

    I would rather ignore them and focus on the things the government are doing (good or bad).

    Talking about National on a daily basis gives them (and their lunatic mates) oxygen. Lets just suffocate them.

    • ropata 14.1
      27 June 2018 at 5:06 pm

      It’s not a few bloggers giving the Noxious Party oxygen it’s the whole MSM, 45% of the electorate, and a fuckton of wealthy foreign sponsors.

      That’s why fringe dwelling troglodytes like TS are an important counternarrative

    • Gabby 14.2
      27 June 2018 at 5:25 pm

      Especially when they’re being dicks right nuffy nuffy?

  15. Baba Yaga 15
    27 June 2018 at 4:55 pm

    “National is still trying to find this Government’s weaknesses.”

    Really? I’ll help out. This government is incompetent, dishonest, weak and destructive to the economy. There. Where do I send the bill?

    • rod 15.1
      27 June 2018 at 5:07 pm

      Baby Yappa, it’s about time you changed your nappies, your shite is endless.

    • Stuart Munro 15.2
      27 June 2018 at 5:09 pm

      Try Key’s mansion in Hawaii.

      This government is infinitely better than the pathetic shambling morons presently occupying the opposition benches.

      The only thing they’re doing wrong is not rejecting the errors of the previous government forcefully and in their entirety.

      The worst government in NZ history has made a hell of a mess – it’s going to take a while to clean it up. Future messes could be prevented by incarcerating sources of corruption like Joyce, Collins, and Brownlee.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.2.1
        27 June 2018 at 5:17 pm

        Future messes could be prevented by incarcerating sources of corruption like Joyce, Collins, and Brownlee.

        It’s becoming necessary that, when a government passes policy that they’re advised will be bad for the nation, that they all to go to jail when it becomes clear that what they were advised would happen actually happens.

        The advice can come from anywhere.

        • Stuart Munro 15.2.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 11:57 pm

          Yes, it’s most unfortunate, but the current crop of Gnats’ loyalty no longer plausibly resides with our country. They act against the national interest to enrich themselves. And they’ve been quite happy to lie in pursuit of their goals. Such people are not fit to be in parliament, much less to govern.

      • patricia bremner 15.2.2
        27 June 2018 at 5:48 pm

        + 1000% Stuart. This Government is changing or working towards changing many terrible known ills and a few hidden ones as well.

        The contrast is huge. As I said, when did the press last applaud a politician from the left? Jacinda has broken new ground at such a rate Bridges etc are floundering in her wake. They have “made stuff up” to try to cause a problem.

        Someone should have told them “Don’t throw shit into the wind!!”

        • Baba Yaga 15.2.2.1
          28 June 2018 at 11:20 am

          “Jacinda has broken new ground…”

          In failing to show leadership against incompetent and corrupt ministers.

          In failing to consult with industry when making decisions that critically effect them.

          In failing to maintain business confidence.

          In failing to maintain industrial harmony.

          In failing to protect NZ’ers from rising price inflation.

          In fact in failing at just about everything.

          • Stuart Munro 15.2.2.1.1
            28 June 2018 at 12:43 pm

            Poppycock.

            She has shown strong leadership against corrupt ministers – by removing the previous government, who were comprised of nothing else.

            She has consulted with industry.

            If business confidence is so fragile it can’t survive enforcement of industrial laws, some of the incompetents need to find a new line of work.

            Yes price inflation is an issue – strong regulation is the answer – your seedy business mates won’t like it a bit.

            Infinitely better in every respect than the vile backward repressive troupe of gibbering buffoons under whose incompetent leadership NZ stagnated for most of the last decade.

            • Baba Yaga 15.2.2.1.1.1
              28 June 2018 at 4:40 pm

              “She has shown strong leadership against corrupt ministers – by removing the previous government…”
              You mean she rigged the election!!??
              What has she done about Clare Curran? David Clark? Kelvin Davis?

              “She has consulted with industry.”
              The oil and gas industry? Nah.

              “If business confidence is so fragile it can’t survive enforcement of industrial laws, some of the incompetents need to find a new line of work.”
              It’s not that, it’s the constant flip-flopping, the mixed signals, the economic illiteracy.

              “Yes price inflation is an issue – strong regulation is the answer – your seedy business mates won’t like it a bit.”
              So your government has stuffed up the economy and now you advocate regulation to fix it!

              Incompetent, inept, corrupt. Labour NZ.

        • Stuart Munro 15.2.3.1
          28 June 2018 at 12:54 pm

          Disgruntled former employees from the sleazy Coleman administration trying to strong arm the new minister. If there were any substance to it their avenue would be the police, not the Gnats.

          • Baba Yaga 15.2.3.1.1
            28 June 2018 at 4:36 pm

            Civil servants whistle blowing on a incompetent bully boy trying to be a Minister.

            • Stuart Munro 15.2.3.1.1.1
              28 June 2018 at 4:55 pm

              Unemployed Gnat rorters vice signaling in hopes of being picked up by a subsequent administration.

              • Baba Yaga …
                28 June 2018 at 9:09 pm

                So you know the political affiliations of these people? You really are full of yourself Stuart.

                • Stuart Munro …
                  28 June 2018 at 9:15 pm

                  It’s not rocket science. These noisy supporters of “shit-in-the-walls” Coleman are, like you, unreliable sources.

                  Ordinary professionals just want to get on with the job – the screaming me me’s try and pin existing problems on a new minister – anomalous if they’re not toxic farright filth like yourself, BY.

                  • Baba Yaga …
                    28 June 2018 at 9:36 pm

                    So you don’t. Just admit it.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      28 June 2018 at 9:51 pm

                      Fuck off Baba.

                      I know you’re more used to the company of munters who can’t add two and two, but toxic Gnat appointed board members dismissed by the coalition’s new broom are readily identified as haters and wreckers when they go to extraordinary lengths to drum up smears of a minister who is not long in the job.

                      A board appointment is not a life term, but going after the incoming minister in the press guarantees they won’t be considered for another anytime soon.

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      28 June 2018 at 9:59 pm

                      As I said. You have no idea about their political affiliation. You come here and spread false claims around like fairy dust. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve caught you out.

      • Baba Yaga 15.2.4
        28 June 2018 at 11:28 am

        “Try Key’s mansion in Hawaii.”

        Jealous much?

        • Stuart Munro 15.2.4.1
          28 June 2018 at 12:45 pm

          Not even slightly.

          It’s a well established legal principle that wrongdoers shall not profit from their crimes.

          I had shares in Equiticorp during the period Key lied about.

          He owes a lot of New Zealanders a great deal of money.

          • Baba Yaga 15.2.4.1.1
            28 June 2018 at 4:34 pm

            No, we owe him plenty. Key and his Government steered NZ through a recession (Labour’s recession), a GFC and catastrophic natural events. Our economy performed up with the very best in the OECD, and our reputation grew substantially. Labour are undoing all of that.

            • Stuart Munro 15.2.4.1.1.1
              28 June 2018 at 4:59 pm

              We owe him a full investigation followed by sequestration of improperly obtained assets and a lengthy prison stay.

              Our economy was faked up by excessive immigration but per capita GDP declined, so it’s fair to say his administration was rubbish. But then the outcome for NZ formed no part of his ambition – he was there to self-enrich at our expense, as a parasite on our democracy.

              • Baba Yaga …
                28 June 2018 at 9:08 pm

                If you have evidence, initiate a judicial review. Put up or shut up.

                “but per capita GDP declined, ”

                Bollocks
                “The GDP per Capita in New Zealand is equivalent to 292 percent of the world’s average. GDP per capita in New Zealand averaged 28616.10 USD from 1977 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 36842 USD in 2016 and a record low of 21506.50 USD in 1977.”
                https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/gdp-per-capita

                How is GDP per capita tracking now Stuart?

                • Stuart Munro …
                  28 June 2018 at 9:26 pm

                  Were I in a position to order a judicial review Baba, that worthless asshole would be in jail already – along with most of his colleagues.

                  “How is GDP per capita tracking now?”

                  We’re in the same morbid flat line, falling with respect to Oz, and likely to show cyclic decline as offshore property sales no longer buoy the $NZ to the same degree.

                  Robertson’s neo-liberal caution will not turn around a decade of irresponsible decisions this term.

                  Rejoice – you and your accomplices have completely fucked our country.

                  • Baba Yaga …
                    28 June 2018 at 9:37 pm

                    No-one else has either Stuart. Care to retract you false claim about GDP per capita?

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      28 June 2018 at 9:42 pm

                      It’s not false, as you know perfectly well.

                      None of the previous government’s claims of economic competence withstand even the simplest comparison with our trading partners.

                      We’ve gone backwards.

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      28 June 2018 at 9:58 pm

                      “It’s not false…”

                      I proved it was false.

                      “The GDP per Capita in New Zealand is equivalent to 292 percent of the world’s average. GDP per capita in New Zealand averaged 28616.10 USD from 1977 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 36842 USD in 2016 and a record low of 21506.50 USD in 1977.”
                      https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/gdp-per-capita

                      Retract Stuart.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      28 June 2018 at 10:00 pm

                      You didn’t prove shit – and you never do.

                      Pretty soon you’ll run off and hide as usual – no-one believes a word you say – you’ve lied too often.

                    • babayaga …
                      28 June 2018 at 10:06 pm

                      “You didn’t prove shit ”

                      So you don’t trust Trading Economics?

                    • babayaga …
                      28 June 2018 at 10:09 pm

                      Once more:

                      “…per capita GDP declined…”
                      https://thestandard.org.nz/shock-horror-national-is-telling-fibs-about-labours-industrial-relations-policy/#comment-1498222

                      “The GDP per Capita in New Zealand is equivalent to 292 percent of the world’s average. GDP per capita in New Zealand averaged 28616.10 USD from 1977 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 36842 USD in 2016 and a record low of 21506.50 USD in 1977.”
                      https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/gdp-per-capita

                      If GDP per capita reached an ‘all time high’ in 2016, how can it have declined?

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      28 June 2018 at 10:25 pm

                      If GDP per capita reached an ‘all time high’ in 2016, how can it have declined?

                      Depends on the comparison doesn’t it. If you measure it in $US then foreign capital inflows will distort the apparent figure upward, if you use Australia as a baseline, their growth will render ours negative.

                      “So you don’t trust Trading Economics?”

                      They’re hardly my go to – and we’re halfway through 2018, they should have more recent numbers.

                    • babayaga …
                      28 June 2018 at 10:43 pm

                      “Depends on the comparison doesn’t it. ”

                      No, it really doesn’t. The Trading Economics numbers are reliable. You f(*&’d up.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      28 June 2018 at 11:43 pm

                      Pitiful.

                      You really shouldn’t go all dogmatic on something as inherently flexible as a bunch of statistics.

                      And you have to handle them in such a way as to realize the truth content, not just try to run the temporary value for a few cheap shots.

                      When the NZ dollar is high a $US comparative set of numbers skews the impression of NZ per capita GDP high. When it is compared to our major trading partners the relative efficacy of governance can occasionally be recognized.

                      And the quality of governance over the last decade is frankly rather poor. Nothing to boast of at all.

                      Why can’t you just come clean? All your claims of economic expertise are not borne out in reality. The Gnats were and are utterly useless economic managers, and the numbers prove it.

                      It’s not as if the negative local effects are not everywhere apparent. Homelessness. Poverty. Suicide. Crime. Vice. All the hallmarks of the decay of civilization.

                    • babayaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 12:13 am

                      “You really shouldn’t go all dogmatic on something as inherently flexible as a bunch of statistics.”

                      You really shouldn’t make up bulls&*t and think you can get away with it.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      29 June 2018 at 12:19 am

                      I don’t think you’re really in a position to lecture me about making up bullshit Baba Yaga.

                      You’ve shown a remarkable proclivity for lying, your objection to me is that I’m telling you the truth.

                    • McFlock …
                      29 June 2018 at 1:00 am

                      Baby yoga doesn’t care who tells the truth. His only desire is to create in his little mind an excuse to gloat. Usually these excuses are imaginary, occasionally they are trivial. Never has one been deserved in reality.

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 1:40 pm

                      “I don’t think you’re really in a position to lecture me about making up bullshit Baba Yaga.”

                      Yeah, actually, I am. I’ve caught you out so many times. I admire your stubbornness though.

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 1:41 pm

                      “Baby yoga doesn’t care who tells the truth. ”

                      I suspect that you, like Stuart, actually believe the tripe Robbo used to spin about per capita GDP. More Labour lies.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      29 June 2018 at 1:46 pm

                      Actually you almost never catch anyone – your disregard for truth is so overt that most of your arguments fall over before you begin.

                      And this is no exception.

                    • David Mac …
                      29 June 2018 at 1:56 pm

                      96% of people believe statistics can be skewed to blow a particular trumpet.

                      I guess I could find out but I’m lazy….I wonder if the capita component of GDP per capita includes the capita that are here on working visas or working illegally.

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 3:25 pm

                      “96% of people believe statistics can be skewed to blow a particular trumpet.”

                      You mean just like that statistic?

                    • David Mac …
                      29 June 2018 at 3:34 pm

                      86% of people believe you are catching on.

                    • McFlock …
                      29 June 2018 at 3:36 pm

                      So the question is now whether yogi is stupid or just has no sense of humour.

                    • babayaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 3:51 pm

                      The question is whether or not you got the irony of David using a statistic to claim that “statistics can be skewed to blow a particular trumpet.”

                    • McFlock …
                      29 June 2018 at 3:58 pm

                      That’s. The. Joke. You. Fool.

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 4:17 pm

                      “That’s. The. Joke. You. Fool.”

                      I know. But good attempt to rescue Stuart.

                    • Wow …
                      29 June 2018 at 4:17 pm

                      I guess Baba Yaga doesn’t realise that 63.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot

                    • Baba Yaga …
                      29 June 2018 at 4:34 pm

                      …they’re coming out the woodwork today…

                    • Incognito …
                      29 June 2018 at 11:21 pm

                      Wow, you seem very confident about that prediction 😉

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      30 June 2018 at 12:38 am

                      You ain’t got shit Baba.

                      None of your blaming changes the fact that our per capita growth under the previous government was risible.

                      Of course the Right have nothing to show and must blame someone – Anyone – else. But it doesn’t make them even a caricature of a good government, for whom maintaining parity with Oz would be, not an aspiration, but a baseline.

                      Nice try though – by troll standards you shine – in the chthonic gloom under your bridge.

        • Brigid 15.2.4.2
          28 June 2018 at 1:50 pm

          Jealous of Key?
          You’ve got to be joking. What earthly use is he to mankind or dog? What does he do?
          Does he even read? Can he use tools? Does he have any? Can he fix anything? Does he make anything?
          What a boring life having every thing done for you. No incentive or desire to learn anything.
          Getting his jollies by stroking young girls hair and being so thick and wankerish that it never occurred to him that his advances were not wanted.
          Yuk. Why would they be?

          He just spends his time gambling and increasing his bank balance, and consorting with people who are just as boring and uninteresting as he is.

          Nah fanks

    • Draco T Bastard 15.3
      27 June 2018 at 5:11 pm

      That’s actually National.

      The nation and the economy have always done better under Labour.

    • patricia bremner 15.4
      27 June 2018 at 5:36 pm

      BY, Send the bill to yourself, for the current costly ills were caused by your crowd.

    • Tricledrown 15.5
      27 June 2018 at 9:24 pm

      Babygaga send the bill to SCF or Cera
      Fletcher Fonterra etc.

  16. JustMe 16
    27 June 2018 at 7:29 pm

    The previous National government – from 2008 through to late 2017 – lived on Cloud Cuckoo-land(aka Planet Key).
    They would boast at Budget times that the economy was strong and everything was just so fine and dandy.
    More than a year ago I was chatting to a woman who works part-time as a receptionist and is on $52k for being a part-timer. She took whatever Bill English(the finance minister of the time)told NZers at a previous Budget as asbolute and questioned Gospel according to St Bill.
    The reality however is what many NZers see on a daily basis eg those who work in hospitals and even those who see homeless people in the streets.
    I am certain National will claim that homelessness was much worse under Labour and today(and quoting Paula Bennett) ‘homelessness is the sign of a growing economy….”
    Really and overall where are the morals and scruples of the NZ National Party MPs when they have to resort to fibbing about one thing or another just to get ‘press attention’?
    MPs no matter what political party they hark to are there in parliament to represent ALL NZers – even those taking industrial action in the form of strikes. For them to claim there were less strikes under the previous National government shows a manipulation of the media(something that the NZ National Party has in its pocket).
    Looking at the track record of John Key when he was prime minister of New Zealand he viewed even those who protested against the TPPA as being “Rent a Protestor’. That shows the shallow mentality of the National Party MPs. At the end of the day(as one would say)they have quickly forgotten who pays their wages and their perks of the job and that is NZ workers.