State housing vs home ownership

Written By: - Date published: 9:45 am, January 11th, 2013 - 159 comments
Categories: assets, class, class war, david shearer, housing, labour, polls, poverty, privatisation - Tags:

So Labour’s Kiwibuild programme is very popular, according to a small scale digipoll, as quoted by Mike Smith in his post ‘Labour’s popular housing policy‘.  Also in that post, Mike Smith claims that Labour’s 2011 pre-election housing policy is still live, quoting from that policy as follows:

Labour will focus on new builds for any state house acquisitions, rather than purchasing existing properties, to increase the overall housing stock. Where possible new state houses will be built in accordance with the disability sector approved Lifemark standard for accessible, adaptable lifetime design.

However, having a quick look through Labour’s 2011 housing policy, I see a disconnect between Shearer’s Kiwibuild flagship policy, and the 2011 Housing policy.  The section of Shearer’s conference speech on affordable housing is all about enabling more people onto the bottom rung of the housing ladder.

Owning your own home is a Kiwi ambition but for tens of thousands of New Zealanders it’s a dream that’s out of reach.

If there is one thing your newspaper tells you every day about life in New Zealand it’s this:

We have a housing problem. And it’s a deep seated problem.

If you’re a young person today, you look at the cost of houses and you despair.

For the first time, home ownership in Auckland has dropped below 60%.

However, the most urgent and deep seated affordable housing problem today is for low income renters: the kinds of paid and unpaid working people who were given state housing in the past, or those who could readily find affordable private rental accommodation.  Nowhere in Shearer’s speech does he mention state housing.

In contrast the 2011 policy focuses most strongly on the urgent need to build state houses.  The policy indicates the extent of the problem.  While it says there is no one way to improve housing affordability, the policy begins focusing on the urgent need to increase the state housing stock.  And, in a reference to the fifth Labour government, the policy states that state housing  forms the foundation of an affordable housing across the board, but that had been achieved by that last Labour government:

Re-establishing a solid base of state housing was an important achievement of the Fifth Labour Government. From that base, we can consider how to move on, into solutions which will impact further on the enormous need for social housing.

However, while that government did make some inroads n resurrecting state housing, the above is an overestimate of what that it achieved. Furthermore, that foundation has been undermined extensively by our current NAct government.

The policy also states that there is a need to support the extension of community and social housing:

Labour will work with the community housing sector to develop it in ways that will see  it complementing an increase in HNZC social housing stock through access to capital  or land. See our “Housing affordability‟ policy for more details.

My memory of the MSM reports of Kiwibuild was that it was totally focused on increasing the stock of housing available for private purchase.  This is certainly the case for Shearer’s conference speech.  A quick search throws up articles reporting on Kiwibuild, all with no mention of state housing, as in the article on the poll showing 70% approval of Labour’s housing policy.

The housing policy was announced by Labour leader David Shearer at the party’s conference a month ago and Labour has promised to build 10,000 houses a year for the next 10 years for first-home buyers, aiming to sell them for less than $300,000 in high-demand areas such as Auckland, Tauranga and Queenstown. If there is high demand ballots may be needed.

Also see here, where Shearer claims a “new direction” for Labour.  And here, where it is question whether the it is do-able to build the volume of houses Shearer plans for the private market.  And that’s before any considerations of building more state houses. And here, with more questions on do-ability, although Brian Rudman does think it is do-able. The Kiwibuild policy involves a

partnership with the private sector, community agencies and local government , using the Housing New Zealand as the lead agency. It says the Crown is “the only player large enough to make a real difference to the home affordability crisis”.

And the article ends with this curious statement:

Labour’s publicity says the houses will be built on new land, or on existing developments, and by looking at “reconfiguring and subdividing some existing state house land as opportunities arise.”

Given that the article is focused on building homes for first home buyers to purchase, does this mean state housing land is to be used to build these new homes, rather than to build more state houses?

So, focusing on Labour’s 2011 Affordable Housing Policy, raises a number of uncomfortable questions and concerns, as well as those of do-ability:

  • Why, in the widespread articulation and promotion of Kiwibuild, has the focus been on building homes for first time buyers, with no mention til yesterday of the urgent need for state housing?
  • Why has Shearer never explicitly endorsed and owned the 2011 policy?
  • There are still big questions about whether Shearer, and his senior Labour Caucus backers  still espouse their past neoliberal views, as clearly articulated by Chris Trotter in his post yesterday.
  • One flagship policy is a far cry form the comprehensive range of provisions enacted by the first NZ Labour government in the 1930s and 40s, which truly was a “new direction”.

Kiwibuild promotion seems to have been targeting the neoliberal establishment, with the urgent affordable  state and rental housing crisis remaining in the realm of the unspeakable, or only talked about away from the glare of the MSM and corporate establishment.

159 comments on “State housing vs home ownership”

  1. just saying 1

    Thank you Karol.
    I thought much the same things when I read Mike Smith’s post yesterday. But I realised that rebutting it would require a lot of work crafting and chasing up links. I could have made the time, but I’m grateful you actually have, and with clarity and grace that I could never have mustered.

    I’m shocked to hear Labour intends to subdivide state properties. There is a shortage of build-on-able land in my city, but as I look up and down my street, I can see that many of my neighbour’s sections could easily be infilled. Picking on these people, yet again, this time as part of a bribe for the well heeled, and it makes me really freaking angry.

  2. This is a confusing post. David Shearer’s speech never said it was setting out our comprehensive housing policy. Our 2014 policy will be based on what we said in 2011, what the reality of the housing situation demands in 2014, and a share of the resources available to the incoming government to deliver this part of the manifesto.

    The 100,000 affordable homes pledge will obviously be a key part of that. So, I imagine, will be expansion of the state housing stock. So, I hope, will tenancy law reform.

    How any of this can be described as neo-liberal is beyond me. State intervention in the housing market to construct more housing for owner occupation and for social tenancy, along with improving tenants’ rights, sounds like quite the opposite to my ears.

    • Mary 2.1

      And will your welfare benefit policy be based on similar lines as your 2007 amendment Act?

    • karol 2.2

      Well, I can only go on what is available. So the Labour Party public statements, speeches etc are what is causing confusing.

      On “neoliberalism” – I should be more consistent in putting it in inverted commas, although it was towards the same end that I parenthesised “(neoliberalism)” on the front page blurb to this post. “Neoliberalism” promotes itself via the “free-market” and “small government” mantra, but, when it serves its proponents, it practices strong government intervention.

      I referred to Aaoron Ettinger on that in my post “Will the real David Shearer please stand up?”.

      “Neoliberalization” involves two, sometimes sequential, but often intertwined moves: rollback (the state) and roll out (interventionist state involvement in private endeavours – PPPs etc).

      Merely being interventionist doesn’t mean it doesn’t continue to serve the wealthy and powerful elite, especially when government draws PPPs into its operations.

      Our 2014 policy will be based on what we said in 2011, what the reality of the housing situation demands in 2014, and a share of the resources available to the incoming government to deliver this part of the manifesto.

      So we can’t take any of the proposals stated now as firm commitments, just take on trust that any Labour-led government will do what’s best for the many come 2014?

      That comes down to trust, and where we believe the Labour leadership stands on general policy direction. And I am not yet seeing any strong statement of commitment to reducing inequalities, and alleviate the current raft of crises impacting on those on low incomes.

    • fatty 2.3

      How any of this can be described as neo-liberal is beyond me. State intervention in the housing market to construct more housing for owner occupation and for social tenancy, along with improving tenants’ rights, sounds like quite the opposite to my ears.

      Well, that depends on if you see third way policies as neoliberal or not. Making unaffordable housing slightly cheaper, and therefore possibly affordable for middle class and above, is merely a tool to continue our neoliberal economic disaster.
      Perhaps you are correct in saying that this policy is not neoliberal, but to be fair, that would also make the current National Government not neoliberal as well…they are both third way.
      Its quite clear we need more state houses….I want to rent from the Government, I do not want to give my money to people who are trying to monopolise land, leech off other people’s needs and are hogging resources.
      What is the appeal of renting privately? And what is the downside of renting from the Government?…does it have something to do with someone’s perception of freedom?

    • Peter 2.4

      Come on Jordan. This is the same-old TINA rhetoric, there is no alternative to private home ownership. Sure, we’ll reduce the cost a bit, thus increasing the number of people entering the housing market, and thus, the banks profits and ultimate control of the housing market, but we won’t make any fundamental reform on the most basic of all Labour policies – housing.

      I’m not opposed to intervention on a broken system, sometimes it’s needed, in this case, it’ll create another housing bubble, as well as giving well-off New Zealanders a new shiny investment tool that they don’t need – the housing bond.

      The First Labour government didn’t do it this way – it printed the money, and made the housing largely from NZ resources, thereby avoiding a bubble in an already over-geared part of the economy (the financial sector). Sure, it might create a bubble in another part, but that’s the part that sorely needs a boost.

      There’s another thing, which my staunchly National friend pointed out. Labour’s policy on building housing is hands-off, and therefore, it’s exposing NZ to the possibility of large scale fraud and ticket clipping on these new houses.

      We have a Department of Building and Housing. This Department needs to start employing builders. That will keep any inflation and rorting under direct control.

      • McFlock 2.4.1

        1: people want to own their own homes. The policy aims to make the hopes of many NZers realistic. Simply recognising the realities of what a lot of nzers want is not “TINA”;

        2: It doesn’t inject more people into the housing market. It injects more houses into the market. This creates bubbles how? To a certain degree I think the repercussions are based on the mechanisms used: just giving people cheaper loans would inflate the market, but actually building new homes then selling them at cost would increase the supply and depress the market. And free up rental stock, which would depress that market, too. In fact I think that building more houses would be a way to ameliorate the property boom/bust cycle that screws poor and middle class nzers in different ways.

        3: “hands-off” does not equal “zero oversight”.

        Once again an okay Labour policy that is at least a step in the correct direction (more available housing provided by government) is wrapped in a turd.

        • karol 2.4.1.1

          “hands-off” does not equal “zero oversight”.

          Actually, a key theme of Shearer’s 2012 Conference speech was that a government led by him would be taking a new direction, largely because it would be “more hands-on”.

          But more hands on than…. what? Clark’s government? Blair’s government? Key’s government that removes democratic processes and gives more direct control to central government?

          It’s a myth that “neoliberal” or it’s softer third way version are hands off. Merely being more “hands on” doesn’t necessarily mean a new direction for the benefit of many rather than the powerful few. It’s all in how and what is done.

          • McFlock 2.4.1.1.1

            True.

            But I think a step in the right direction is to actually have a plan to address a housing problem by building new houses.

            Whether it ends up being assistance for people to get their own homes or just another subsidy to property developers is a real concern, but even recognising the problem is a promising start. Especially this far from an election (as opposed to last time, when all of a sudden six months out Labour was pretending to have MJS’ spirit again). Who knows, if they keep it up for a couple of years it might be easier to believe.

  3. Lanthanide 3

    Given the sheer size of the Kiwibuild programme, it seems doubtful they could achieve that, and also build a sensible number of state houses, at the same time. Then again, perhaps economies of scale would come into play and make it easier to build extra state houses at the same time.

    • Anne 3.1

      It can be achieved over time just as the 1st Labour government’s housing policies were achieved over time. But it took a decade or more to begin to make a big dent in the needs of the population.

      Oh, and the Labour government of the 1940s also acquired older ready-built homes to be rented out by the state. I know, because my parents were one of the early recipients. They were also one of the first groups to have the option of buying these homes at very reasonable state provided mortgages. So, there’s nothing particularly new about this policy and I’m delighted the far sighted views of that first Labour govt. are now being revisited. Let’s hope it also extends to other areas of social and economic well-being.

  4. onsos 4

    I have real worries about the Sixth Labour government, but this isn’t yet one of them. There’s no particular reason to suppose that Kiwibuild is a substitution for increasing state housing stock, although it may do. That’s not to say I won’t keep my eye on it. If this Labour government turns craven it may drop the ball on this, which would be a social disaster, and a political disaster for the party.

    The combination of increasing the supply of state housing, and something like Kiwibuild which sees the government encouraging an increase in low cost homes in the private sector, is what is needed. There are practical concerns: the private sector will not achieve what state housing can, nor will it achieve affordable homes for first buyers. These markets are bound together, and pressure can be taken off the sector at all points. These policies also address the continual hyper-inflation of the housing market, by militating against the return on rentals.

    There are also critical political concerns. The provision of affordable housing is an area where policy can produce solidarity amongst the middle and working classes, which has to be the goal of a Labour government. The young middle classes share interests with the working poor. They also attract political conern from the middle classes generally.

    The political success of WFF and interest-free student loans was based on the fact that they extended into the middle classes, effectively making them third rail issues. However much the Tories and their backers hate those programmes, National will not touch them. Affordable housing needs to be put into this camp, which means working on a large scale and tying together the interests of the working and middle classes.

    • just saying 4.1

      …and interest-free student loans was based on the fact that they extended into the middle classes,…

      Interest-free student loans didn’t “extend into” the middle classes. At least 90 percent of the benefit went (and still goes) straight into the pockets of the middle-classes.

      A goodly percentage of WWF does likewise. Not quite as much of a bribe to the middle-classes, because the working poor benefit also.

      And I’d put money on bourgeois-build cutting heavily into resources for provision of housing for the poor.

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        Not quite as much of a bribe to the middle-classes, because the working poor benefit also.

        Unless you are the working poor without kids, in which case you’re just ignored.

        And if you are part of our massive youth unemployment problem, sorry, no WFF lollies for you, either.

  5. Tracey 5

    Common sense suggests it has to be a mix of both state housing (for rent) and low cost homes.

    There is a lot of talk about how a home could be built for $300k including land, and I note that National rebuts this idea on the basis that people would have to live far out of Auckland. ironic given they didn’t see this as a block to opening up greenland on the outskirts of Auckland to development.

    Part and parcel of anything to do with affordable housing and rental has to be the public transport issue of Auckland. Those who see these as separate or separable are, imo, crazy.

    Satellite towns are one option, with GOOD/RELIABLE transport links directly to where people are employed.

    IF anyone is looking for a government initiative to create jobs and stimulate the economy these ideas can help that PROVIDED they are well thought out and Fletchers dont automatically get all the contracts to then subcontract from CHH.

  6. The Kiwibuild policy is neo liberal in the following way.
    Apart from the already well publicised fact that it it should be termed ‘Middle class Kiwibuild’.

    It concedes that to win support Labour has to push the ‘ownership dream’ of everyone becoming middle class through property ownership. To say that this does not mean the end of state housing is true only if we accept state housing as it is now defined, a sort of booby prize for ‘losers’.

    That puts Kiwibuild into conflict with state housing as originally conceived by Labour in the 1930s.
    This morning’s NZH ran a big article on people who had been living in State houses for generations.
    Again feeding the standard neo-liberal presumption that state tenants are ‘losers’ and that ‘winners’ dream of home-ownership.

    Yet this only became Labour policy after National had made it possible for tenants to buy state houses in the 1950s rendering them ‘hostages to capital’ in the form of banks and property speculators. How often have we seen that fear of losing a job to pay the mortgage is a real fear for workers taking strike action?

    So what Shearer is doing is reinforcing the neo-liberal holy grail that the market is the road to freedom. Whereas its only freedom for the banks and speculators while the working class is stuck with unaffordable mortgages and rents.

    A true Labour Party would return to a State Housing policy that shifts the provision of housing away from the banks and property speculators, back to the state, and creates a positive belief that state tenancy is not a privilege for scroungers, but the right of citizens.

    Of course if Shearer were to launch a popularity campaign on the basis of a return to Labour’s classic housing policy he would lose his prized appeal to the middle class who have for decades used property speculation as the basis of wealth generation, and have to look again for the support 100,000s of ordinary working class families which the Labour right have turned their backs on.

    • McFlock 6.1

      Actually, the state house tenants who are being evicted by the current nat regime have discovered one of the advantages to home ownership.

      Not saying that there aren’t ways to kick people out of private homes, just that it’s easier to kick out tenants.

      • Mary 6.1.1

        Am feeling a bit dumb asking but I don’t know what you mean.

        • McFlock 6.1.1.1

          Not all the state houses being sold were vacant when the decision was made to sell.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1

            The problem you identify here McFlock is one where the State becomes a rapacious capitalist landlord, like the bankers.

            Red Rattler is speaking against this scenario, having the state return to the provision of social housing quite apart from market influences, without having to subject people to the uncertainty of a 20-30 year mortgage.

            • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1.1

              It doesn’t matter if you are evicted by a bank or a government. You’re still evicted.

              The problem isn’t even the government becoming a capitalist landlord. It’s, once again, tories destroying things for everyone who isn’t rich. They don’t think the government should own houses at all, and the “low hanging fruit” in the process are the supposed 1 person living in a 5 bedroom remmers mansion. In term 3 the bulk of state houses will go.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.2

        Not saying that there aren’t ways to kick people out of private homes, just that it’s easier to kick out tenants.

        We could introduce legislation allowing secure long term tenancies like is common in Europe.

        • McFlock 6.1.2.1

          possibly, but that’s easily reversible.

          Whereas private property rights and home ownership is well entrenched and the ability of councils or developers to evict you from the house you own is restricted to a few very specific situations, e.g. public works or massive rates default, or recurring public health issues.

          Unlike the Auckland state houses that are being sold because of property valuations.

  7. It would be interesting to find out how many State Houses were needed when working people were able to,buy through the former State Advanced Housing Policy .I would think that most working people would prefer to buy their own house if it was possible. By all means have a decent State House Policy for people who for one reason or the other prefer to rent but even today most working people dream of their own home, The only reason they are are not is because of price and means of paying back the mortgage NZ’s State Advances Scheme was the envy of the world .Time to think how to have a similar scheme.

    • karol 7.1

      I think the preference for buying is because they is what has been promoted in NZ for a long time. It wasn’t so in Denmark when I visited in the 80s. People there often chose to be lifetime renters. It actually is capitalist societies that promote buying over renting. It benefits the bankers, and those at the top of the housing ladder.

      When there is a financial crash, as in 2007/8, and a housing bubble bursts, it’s the people at the bottom of the ladder that suffer most. They are always the most insecure buyers. Buying does not always mean you are better off in the long run than renting, as explained in this Campbell live video.

      Taking out a mortgage can mean that you are paying into the bank’s profits, rather than just putting money into a secure home for yourself. Also, it depends on house prices always rising.

      Part of the reason people are encouraged to buy, is that government’s make policies to incentivise home buying: e.g. tax incentives. But government’s can also make renting more attractive: security of tenure, renters and and landlords rights and obligations spelled out clearly; and, above all, adequate amounts of affordable housing in relation to incomes…. etc.

      • McFlock 7.1.1

        As someone who received the “terms of new ownership are vacant possession, you have 40 days to leave” letter which fucked my rhythm years ago, I really want to own. Currently my low rent and the fact my landlord is a relative keeps me renting. Plus the fact I seem to piss my money away.

        • karol 7.1.1.1

          Well, I’ve had that, including about a year ago. i didn’t mind so much as I was wanting to move. I found somewhere fairly quickly, but it’s barely adequate. I do not want to own, just have a better choice of affordable places to live.

          However, I am someone with qualifications, an adult life working in middle class occupations, savings and a bit of a UK teachers’s pension (reached their retirement age not ours), a part time middle class job, and am happy to live on a fairly restricted budget. Also, I’m single and have no dependents.

          However, while I can get by, I can see it must be extremely hard for those on lower incomes, with less or no qualifications, a lower paying job, and dependents to support, to find anywhere affordable to live in Auckland.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 7.1.2

        Karol,

        You clearly haven’t experienced rental hell. If you had then you would understand the psychotic drive to own your own home.

        This is what we renters in major cities face whenever we move, often not because we want to move either:

        – exploding “market” rental prices that steadily increase until we can’t afford to live where we are

        – dog eat dog battles to secure a rental property, and by that I mean ANY rental property. Usually renters get to pick between one badly insulated and rotting home and another equally as bad OR we get screwed on the rent. Either way we lose

        – multiple changes of school for the kids (known to cause psychological problems and undermine education). Tawa College where my kids attend runs a program to pick up these kids who often have been to 10 or 15 schools before reaching secondary education. This has only been a factor in NZ in the last decade or so and will have massive social consequences.

        – I am a long term tennent, with refs and good credit history and I have great difficulty. For anyone else I imagine given my experience of trying to find somewhere that their situation is close to impossible unless social housing is utilised.

        – We now have children brought up in homes with flatmates. This increases vulnerability of these children having a stranger living in their home.

        john Key never had to grow up with any of these issues and neither should our kids.

        • McFlock 7.1.2.1

          john Key never had to grow up with any of these issues and neither should our kids

          Fucking spot on.

        • karol 7.1.2.2

          I’m sorry to hear of your experiences, ASW. It is worse than my experiences, however, I was under no illusion that there are many renters doing it extremely tough.

          Nevertheless, I don’t think the answer is to put the focus on encouraging everyone to own their own place. I think government can give a better choice, by policies enabling affordable rental accommodation for all who want or need it.

          • AsleepWhileWalking 7.1.2.2.1

            I agree with you that it isn’t the best (in fact it only fuels the problem), but it is my aim even though houses are overpriced and I can’t afford it.

            I have come up with a scheme to build and sell web based businesses and take advantage of having no capital gains tax in order to get the freakishly large deposit. There is no way in hell Kiwisaver is going to help me unless I move to Gore or something. Such is the plight of a single parent.

            Sounds good on the surface, but in reality by the time this plan comes together the kids will have left home, house prices will have doubled, and I will probably realise I should have just left NZ and got more $$$ and cheaper living expenses elsewhere.

        • Rogue Trooper 7.1.2.3

          true

      • Cactus Kate 7.1.3

        A very good comment. “It actually is capitalist societies that promote buying over renting”.

        Once you become a home owner you are a slave to home valuations always increasing and interest rates staying low until you pay it all off then want the opposite.

        • Populuxe1 7.1.3.1

          And rates, and maintenance…

          • McFlock 7.1.3.1.1

            all of which are factored into the cost of renting in the first place. But you also have to worry that your landlord might go underwater, not just you.

      • Populuxe1 7.1.4

        At the risk of being called a blancmange brain again, I find it most peculiar Karol that on one hand you claim solidarity with the values of the working class (whatever that actually means in a predominantly bourgeois society like ours) and then on the other hand you shit all over their tastes in popular culture (usually with a disdainful critical theory analysis) and their aspirations – in this case home ownership.

        There is a very good reason why lower income people in particular aspire to home ownership – a lifetime’s experience of marginal security which has very little to do with what has or hasn’t been promoted. Home ownership represents security and provides a great deal of utility in the form of intangible emotional benefits. It also represents a useful economic asset in case of financial emergencies. I have nothing against renting, but I perfectly understand why people would want to own their own homes and I don’t think you are representing them fairly.

        • bad12 7.1.4.1

          But most of that ‘desire for home ownership’ has been manufactured in our society by the neo-liberalism of the past 30 years,

          Prior to Roger Douglas talk of State Housing being of a temporary nature was unheard of, what people want firstly is security both of tenure and rent, State Housing used to provide both…

          • Populuxe1 7.1.4.1.1

            That would probably come as a surprise to the early European settlers, who were actually trying to get away from that sort of thing following the closing of the Commons, the Highland Clearances, the potato famine, the corn laws etc etc

        • karol 7.1.4.2

          I am not so much against people owning their own home, as against the way affordable renting is not equally promoted and supported as a viable choice. I can fully see why, in the way our system is set up, that people would see ownership as the most stable option.

          However, this works against the least well-off, who could never afford to own a home. It would make life easier all round if things weren’t set up for to benefit the banksters and high end property buyers via the promotion of home ownership as THE best way to go.

          Actually, I would say home ownership is as much, if not more, a strong part of middle class culture as a working class one.

  8. Rich 8

    There should be a scheme allowing people to get a state house on a secure lifetime, swappable basis at an affordable rent, paying for somewhere to live rather than speculating on a possible gain.

    • rosy 8.1

      +1 That would promote stable communities with the flexibility to move when jobs or other circumstances require.

  9. Tiresias 9

    Labour building cheap houses for sale should be repugnant.

    Who are they going to be sold to, and under what conditions? Is there going to be a bullet-proof system of ensuring they only go to ‘deserving’ buyers – presumably couples that don’t already own a home? Yet what about the parents of one in such a couple who might be willing to help them purchase it but only if they ‘own’ it so they don’t lose their investment if the couple split up, or their sprog dies and his mate remarries, etc.

    Are these deserving buyers going to have to get mortgages? If they break up or lose their jobs the bank then forecloses and resells it at the best possible price – quite probably to a private landlord who then rents it out for as much as he can.

    Or even when the initial ‘deserving buyers’ decide or are forced to sell up and move on. Are they going to be required to sell to an equally deserving buyer, or allowed to sell for the best price &tc.

    If Shearer really said, “Owning your own home is a Kiwi ambition…” he again proved himself unfit to be Labour leader. Property ownership is a meme and a myth just like the “American dream” of anyone being able to become a millionaire through hard-work, which permits society to write the poor off as simply not hard-working enough. Selling Property Ownership as something you ‘should’ aspire to – which Shearer effectively did if he said what is claimed – is to buy into the Right-wing myth that property and ownership is all, a sign that you’ve “made it”, and that renting is little better than serfdom. Sure it might be a “Kiwi ambition”, but that’s only because it’s been sold as such by Estate Agents, property investors and banks for a generation.

    The State’s responsibility is to provide housing at affordable prices to those starting out so that they aren’t crippled by unaffordable mortages on top of repaying student loans, so that they can easily move locations if their jobs require it, or just to find jobs, so they can start out as a couple in a small easy-care central apartment when their time is taken up studying, partying, finding a job and establishing themselves, and move into larger properties with gardens and air when the children come along and they need it – and to let them think about buying a property for their retirement.

    • karol 9.1

      If Shearer really said, “Owning your own home is a Kiwi ambition…”

      It’s there at the link in my post, under the heading Affordable Housing. Go check it for yourself. And it’s in the video at about 32 mins 10-15 secs.

    • Rogue Trooper 9.2

      🙂

  10. Annette King 10

    Labour’s 2011 Housing policy stands until or unless the Policy Council of the NZLP decides to amend or change it.
    The first part of our 2014 Housing policy was announced by David Shearer at our recent conference- Kiwi Build. There is much more to come over the next 2 years . The Kiwi Build policy was announced to give plenty of warning to all participants in the building and construction sector as well as voters we are serious about changing declining home ownership for modest income first home owners. The response from builders, banks, suppliers, third sector housing providers, local government and people in rental accommodation has been very encouraging.
    Over the past twenty years affordable homes( like the type many of us grew up in- around 100sq metres) have not been built. Of the total build, affordable housing makes up around 5%, down from 40%. Many modest income earners are locked into renting unable to afford their own home. They in turn put pressure on the rental market with demand outstripping supply in many parts of NZ. The flow on effect is to push people into overcrowded situations, inadequate housing and poor quality housing. The Accommodation Supplement(now costing over1 billion dollars a year) has done little to improve the quality or the cost of private rentals. Even with the subsidy for heating and insulation introduced as a joint policy between Labour and the Greens few private rental landlords have taken advantage of it.
    It’s worth reading the comments of Diane Crossan, recently retired Retirement Commissioner (oft repeated by her) that we will face poverty among older NZers if we don’t do something to increase home ownership for post baby boomers.

    The second part of the policy announcement made by David Shearer appears to have had little attention by commentators to date although some landlords have noticed going by my emails and letterbox! All private and state rentals will be required to be insulated and provide affordable non polluting heating. To date there has been considerable carrot through subsidies now it is time to apply some stick to ensure the quality of rental accommodation improves. Research undertaken by Prof Phillipa Howden- Chapman shows the health benefits of warm dry housing far out strips the cost. Enforcement will come through legislation, tenancy agreements , regulations etc.

    The provision of state housing is core Labour policy. In our last term of government we concentrated on rebuilding and buying more houses to add to the stock after 13, 000 had been sold off by the National government. We could have done more but health and education which had been severely cut during 9 years of the Nats became our top spending priorities. Improved and increased state and not for profit accommodation will be part of our future announcements.

    Our 2014 Housing Policy is well underway working through the policy mechanism of the Party. It will be comprehensive and be a major part of our social, health, training, employment and economic policy.

    • r0b 10.1

      Welcome Annette – thanks for engaging here on The Standard.

      Anthony / r0b

    • bad12 10.2

      Annette, we will have to wait a while for the numbers and time-frame for what Labour intend to build in the way of HousingNZ rentals, do you think it is achievable to build 10,000 homes for sale and at the same time build a substantial number of HousingNZ rentals,

      Can you please put an income figure on what you consider the target of the ‘KiwiBuild’ program to be, in the debate here at the Standard the figure of a minimum household income of $60,000 a year was sourced from one of the on-line mortgage calculators???…

      PS, great to see someone from ‘on-high’ willing to engage…

    • karol 10.3

      Thank-you for a such a detailed explanation, Annette.

      I think, in response, bad12 has asked a very good question.

      And I also think QOT @5.05pm makes a very good suggestion about clearly posting Labour Party policy online under the relevant area.

      On of my concerns is about the message that has particularly been coming through the MSM, which gives the impression that the current focus of the Labour Party on housing is on building for the private market, without re-stating a commitment to sate housing. As bad12 has explained extremely well @5.33pm below, I think it is state housing that first needs the attention as an urgent matter.

      As a renter, I often get people ringing me asking me to take up a government sponsored home-insulation provision. Actually, my current place is very well insulated from the cold – the summer heat is a bigger problem.

      However, my fear for other renters would be that an improvement in insulation would mean a rise in rent.

      • bad12 10.3.1

        Yeah Karol, i would bet 100% that unless some form of regulation/legislation were used landlords would simply ‘pass on” the cost of insulation to tenants,

        If the landlords were going to insulate of their own free will they would have all done so via the Labour/Green subsidy that was available until quite recently…

    • Rogue Trooper 10.4

      “echo chamber”; I don’t think so (interesting) 🙂

    • xtasy 10.5

      Hi Annette, welcome to the Standard:

      “Labour’s 2011 Housing policy stands until or unless the Policy Council of the NZLP decides to amend or change it.

      The first part of our 2014 Housing policy was announced by David Shearer at our recent conference- Kiwi Build. There is much more to come over the next 2 years .” AND …

      “Our 2014 Housing Policy is well underway working through the policy mechanism of the Party.”

      By that last comment you made at the end of your attempt to clarify Labour’s new Kiwi Build” housing policy, as well as improved housing conditions for renters, do I conclude from that, that your earlier comment, that the housing policy in Labour’s Manifesto for 2011 is only still “valid” as a “redundant policy remnant”, until it will be more comprehensively replaced by what else will come in addition to what David Sheaerer and Labour announced already for housing at the conference?

      What income limits will be applied to qualify for a Kiwi Build” home?

      What is going to address the issue of land availability more clearly, to construct such “affordable” homes, say in Greater Auckland. Crown land may be available here and there, but I cannot see enough of it being easily available.

      What kind of state housing projects, with or without “third party” involvement, are planned. Are these going to be blocks of apartments with little studios, where not much space is left once a double bed and seater are put inside? Or are future state homes actually going to be a good mix of good quality, partly blocks of apartments, perhaps rows of units, townhouses, and a few standalone homes for larger families?

      Is Labour also still going to get the category C and D Housing NZ waiting listers off the lists, by getting them housed outside Housing NZ? Is that then not a bit like what National are doing now already?

      Re the rental standard improvements, e.g. insulation, heating and so forth, what is going to address the consequence of private landlords simply passing on the extra costs and increase rents?

      What is going to happen in the meantime to the WINZ accom supplement???

      I see a real need for more state housing, as too many will under present conditions, and even with Kiwi Build NEVER be able to have affordable own homes, to rent and live in.

      Your replies will be appreciated.

      • xtasy 10.5.1

        I add to the above: Present government is even off-loading category 2 Housing NZ list waiters, by saying, we will consult with you and work on finding alternative solutions to your housing needs.

        Heatley and the Nats only “look after” category A now, being the most severe and desperate cases of people needing housing. I contacted them on clarification once, it means basically, you have to be on the street, in a totally unsuitable boarding house, and/or living without flowing water, drains, electricity and the likes.

        ALL else are now FOBBED OFF by Housing NZ, and it is near impossible to get onto the waiting list now.

        So clearly, the Nats want to only deal with the extreme cases, offer them minimum housing (they do not even decorate and repair many homes anymore!!!), AND tell them and the rest: Shut up and go away!

        They go on about ensuring only now basic health and safety standards, which I suppose is, if the roof does not drop on your head, you are all safe.

        This is no BS, I went through it early last year, with a mate of mine, they only “moved” after disgusting fob-offs, once the media was onto them!

        We were shown totally unsuitable homes, where holes were in walls, where leaky ceilings and roofs were issues, and the list goes on. This is Heatley’s great NatACT NZ Housing scheme now!

  11. QoT 11

    Awesome post, karol.

    For comparison, people may want to check out the Greens’ idea of a housing policy, which includes increasing the stock of state housing, supporting “third sector” housing construction and promoting non-traditional housing setups.

    (For bonus points, it’s on an individual, easily-accessible webpage with the current contact details of the relevant spokesperson. Could someone in the Labour Party please figure out how internets works?)

    • bad12 11.1

      I remember Norm Kirk’s ‘Ohu’ scheme where DOC land was made available to the ‘hippies’ of the time to explore their visions of alternative life-styles,

      RIP, Norm Kirk, a great man, a great SOCIALIST, and, a great Labour Prime Minister…

  12. bad12 12

    To address the whole issue of housing over and over in various posts becomes extremely labourious, but the BIG issue here is just who does Labour really represent???

    To house the children of the middle classes in homes they will buy will take 100,000 homes over a 10 year period of building according to the Labour ‘KiwiBuild’ policy, and unfortunately i cannot escape the conclusion that to do so would be to reward those 1000’s in the middle class who piled into the housing market looking for rental investments which then drove the prices of such houses as what their children might buy into the realm of un-affordability,

    Having pointed this out before, it becomes wearisome to be repetitive, BUT,it is those with who work for or just above the minimum wage who in the past 30 years have suffered the worst changes in their housing costs over that time, by dint of actually having an income such workers have been regressively excluded from HousingNZ rentals at 25% of income by the growing number of beneficiaries who by dint of pathetic benefit levels were shown to be more in NEED by dint of the allocation regime of HousingNZ,

    Forced out of HousingNZ homes by the rising tide of poorer,(than them), beneficiaries those who work for the minimum or just above were then at the mercy of private landlords and the whole deciles rents shifted from being 25% of income to being 50%+ of income in the private market,

    To ‘fix’ this outrage which has been occurring under both National and Labour”s political control, with National being by far the worst offenders, my belief is that to offer affordable housing to those working at or near the minimum wage the same 100,000 houses NEED to be built and rented to that decile of workers at 25% of their household income,

    There are 2 obvious economic advantages to be seen in doing this besides the obvious economic boost of building 100,000 houses,

    The first would be to kill off demand for rental investment properties, killing off such demand will LOWER the cost of buying houses on the private market thus negating the need for Labour to intervene on behalf of the children of the middle class who’s parents created the un-affodability issue in the first place,

    Freeing those who work for the minimum wage from the private rental sector will in itself give the economy a boost as those working for that minimum would go from paying 50%+ of income in rent to paying 25% of that income as rent,

    Having said all of that, i am lead straight back to the question of WHO does Labour represent, i do not believe that Labour can both house the working poor at 25% of income AND build 100,000 homes to on-sell to the children of the middle class,

    Thats the real question inherent in this debate, and the shortest means of addressing that debate to the Labour Parliamentary team is simply this,

    WHO in the above equation is MOST in NEED, the children of the middle class on the verge of having income enough to service a 300+ thousand dollar mortgage, OR, the minimum wage workers attempting to raise families while paying the parents of those YOU intend to bestow the largesse of ‘KiwiBuild’ upon while paying 50%+ of income AND part of the 1.2 billion dollars of income supplement every year paid from the Government coffers,

    Just WHO needs that Government help the most???…

    • just saying 12.1

      Excellent comment and questions bad12.
      I too would love to hear them answered.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 12.1.1

        There’s a few more things that can be added in the mix as well:

        1. It’s been housing policy to build the houses and then have Enable fund any modifications for people with disabilities. Speaking to HNZ about this they said they have no intention of initially building houses up front suitable for people with disabilities. You of course can’t really do things later like widen the passageways for someone in a wheelchair or easily build a open flat shower area.

        Specific housing needs to be built for those people with physical disabilities.

        2. Currently many of those with disablities are living in sub-standard private housing. Part of the problem being of course they can afford what they can afford and they can also easily be taken advantage of. In some cases sexual and physical abuse occurs as a result of not paying their rent.

        An increase in housing stock for these people is needed with strong security of tenancy. The reality is most of these people will be renters for life. The occassional person might geet an inheritance or house from mum and dad but that’s not the norm – particularly given that the parents earnings capacity was often reduced while raising them either through one partner not being able to work or as in many cases the husband buggering off from his disabled child.

        The state should simply provide them with housing for life.

        3. Security of tenancy. For other people there should be much more security of tenancy. If the notion is that you want people to save and get ahead a 10-15 year reviewable tenancy seems to make much more sense. Over that time-frame their should be sufficient contribution in many peoples Kiwi-saver account to be able to have the necessary deposit to purchase their own home should they wish.

        4. Rent security is also important – market rents should go. Yep peoples circumstances change – great. It’s only state housing that says great you’ve got a job we’ll put your rent up. I haven’t seen a private landlord do this yet. How fucked up is that. Again if the idea is for people to improver there lot and move into home ownership then the abilirty to work and save and get ahead should be maximised. Security of rent should go alongside security of tenancy.

        5. Transitional housing. It is a significant issue for released prisoners, people being discharged from mental health units, women leaving refuges, those being dis-institutionalised out of IHC care, people living rough who no longer wish to do this and so on. The state should be providing up to six month transitional housing to help get these people re-established.

        6. Wet-houses. Alcoholism continues to be a significant problem in this country with a decided lack of night accomodation for those who are alcoholics and live rough. These places should be distinctly and openly be funded via alcohol taxation.

        7. Rental housing codes and inspection. Its no use having codes if no-one is inspecting the rental housing stock. There is some abysmal housing out there and if standards are not met the landlords should not be allowed to rent them and if they don’t bring them up to scratch they should be condemned and bulldozed.

        This would have both the effect of bringing up accomodation to scratch and making land available. There’s plenty of rental accomodation that should be bulldozed.

        Inspection should be funded through general taxation – user pays is a crock of shit.

        8. In parts of Australia you must for instance upgrade your wiring and power box within a 3 month period of buying a house. This helps reduce the risk of fire and ensures houses are bought up to current standards. This applies to everyone – not just rentals. Again there is some atrocious wiring in some houses – let alone plumbing, etc.

        9. We have an aging population. Wankers like John Banks have sold off council retirement housing and this will be a problem for thirty years or so. The state should be building some retirement housing and could even do swaps with older people for their 3 or 4 bedroom house to free up both larger homes and land. Brand new unit for an old 3 bedroom house built in the fifties isn’t necessarily a bad swap and in many places will likely be even more attractive as baby boomers age and are all trying to sell their properties (+ their rentals). This type of appraoch would also help ensure that state house tenants aren’t ghettoised and the same for old people.

        Our communities need our older people in them. They provide valuable service and connection and skills. Retirement villages are not the way to go.

        10. Feild workers to check on those with disabilities living in our communities wherther state tenants or not. Not linked to hours per person but people who are able to assist – support where needed to to pick up issues of abuse – there is plenty of discussion about elder abuse but little about the abuse of those with disabilities.

        • just saying 12.1.1.1

          Thanks for this valuable contribution. I hope you will be taking part when we get stuck into discussing policy in more detail. This stuff is so important.

          I would very much like Ms King’s response to the matters you raise.

  13. Cactus Kate 13

    Another great example of the tension on the left between those welfare is MEANT to assist (the actual poor) and those that welfare is not meant to (those who feel too poor to (insert an activity such as buying a house)).

    The support for Kiwibuild is from those who can probably always afford their own home anyway. They just have to wait a little longer than Mummy and Daddy and save up and perhaps get them to help as Mummy and Daddy sit on an overcapitalised piece of ‘burbs. Welfare cannot provide for these people in the modern age, there simply are too many people with their hands out claiming to be driven into poverty by their own lifestyles.

    The tension in Labour is that this populist rent-a-vote grab for the centre vote will only end up costing the support of one group – the working class and beneficiaries none of whom ever will have a hope of even qualifying for Kiwibuild because in my entire lifetime they have never been able to afford even the rent least of all a home. They will now be pushed left to vote for Mana or the Greens.

    Core to the Shearer v Cunliffe battle is this tension and it is shown here in posts. Shearer wants to throw welfare at the middle classes to buy their votes. Cunliffe wants to take it from everyone and give to the poor. I think historically Cunliffe’s approach is more true to the principles of the Labour Party than that of Shearer which sits well with what the Nats are already doing.

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      Forget the Shearer vs Cunliffe cage fight bullshit

      Just give the membership a chance to have their say and democratically confirm the Leadership.

      • Te Reo Putake 13.1.1

        Its not just the membership, CV. The affiliates get a say, too. I’ve been thinking about that construction a bit today. It seems to me that the Cunliffe supporters at conference unintentionally damned DC by going for the 60% plus 1 trigger.

        A scenario: Shearer fails to get 60% plus 1 at caucus. It goes to a wider vote. DC stands and gets 50% of the caucus vote, 50% of the membership vote and all of the affiliate vote. 60% in the total college.

        DC is elected leader.

        The very next time it goes to a caucus vote, DC gets 50% and loses and the whole process starts again. DC may win the combined vote again, but he is fatally undermined because he cannot get the support of his caucus. He’d be permanently in Dead Man Walking mode.

        Waddya reckon?

        • karol 13.1.1.1

          A perfectly valid question, TRP, but not on topic for this post. Can you, please continue the discussion on open mike?

        • Pascal's bookie 13.1.1.2

          If caucus vetoes the party, then they validate everything that’s been said agin them.

      • Cactus Kate 13.1.2

        You don’t get it do you? There will not be a membership vote.

        Cunliffe has not got the stones for a challenge, he lacks the numbers to back him in caucus and so there won’t be a vote, caucus will lock in behind Shearer and best you all do too, because he will be your leader at the next election and the membership in the meantime will find out that caucus hates you.

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.1

          and the membership in the meantime will find out that caucus hates you.

          Yeah, been there done that 🙂

          • Cactus Kate Viper 13.1.2.1.1

            Good to know that you realize and therefore eyes were wide open. Carry on then, the dream is over 🙂
            If the Labour membership can pull off a Cunliffe victory I shall tip the hat to them. I agree he should be leader but politics is full of shoulds and coulds.

    • Pascal's bookie 13.2

      “They will now be pushed left to vote for Mana or the Greens.”

      OH NOES.

    • bad12 13.3

      i would like to say a few choice things to you about your comment but as Karol has pointed out, you are using one issue, Housing, to drag this particular post off into some other realm of debate, so, best your given as little oxygen as possible…

    • On this issue, Kate has a point (11 Jan @ 7.26pm). There is an element of reality in her second and third paragraphs, and most of the fourth.

      With limited resources we need to look at what gets built for whom.

      Whilst I appreciate that Labour has focused on the housing problem (I refuse to refer to it as an “issue”) in this country – and rightly so – a Labour-led government has to spend our tax dollars on those who need it the most.

      The priority must be for State housing to be built, at around 10,000 units a year (not impossible – and the maths supports such a programme). Something I put together with a bit of costings, back in August 2011; Can we do it? Bloody oath we can!

      The first priority must be addressing issues relating to child poverty. All else is secondary. (And anyway, the Middle Classes got their “cake” with Working for Families and by voting for two tax cuts in 2008. Labour and National have both been extremely generous to middle class families.

      Offering housing for the middle classes (of which I am one) is a “nice to have” and perhaps something that can be looked at after housing, poverty, disease problems have been addressed for those really in need.

      I think most fair-minded New Zealanders will understand such prioritisation.

      We should also consider that if something looks like an election “bribe” to voters, they may think twice about voting for Labour. The Nats can get away with such bribes because their inherent doctrine of naked self-interest allows them to get away with that kind of policy.

      People look at Labour and expect different values.

      (Or else why bother having two different Parties, the Nats and Labour?)

      Indeed, if we want to attract New Zealanders to live and work in their own country, we have to offer them a point of difference to other, high-wage nations. We can’t compete with Australia, US, etc, for high wages.

      But we can compete if we can offer a sense of national pride; a sense of belonging to a society, rather than an “economy” (and I don’t mean bloody rugby teams and Hobbits, either). As I blogged on an issue relating to migration,

      ” Another issue here is that despite National’s right-wing reforms, tax cuts, and partial-asset sales/share floats – New Zealanders are continuing to vote with their feet. An increasing number of families and young people are departing our shores in a vote of no-confidence in John Key and his administration.

      It also suggests that the neo-liberal concept of the atomisation of “society” – replaced by the Individual and families – has reached it’s inevitable consequence. If all that matters is the Individual and their own needs, then concepts such as national identity and cultural heritage are hopelessly out-dated concepts. In which case, people will simply follow the money and nothing else matters.

      If we are ever to attract New Zealanders back to our country, and to persuade those already here that it is worthwhile being part of this society, then we have to move away from raw Individualism and self-interest. To encourage people to be a part of a society, that society has to be vibrant, strong, and offer more than just cash incentives. ”

      Part of that is looking after one another, and those most in need are in the fore-front of such a philosophy.

      After all, that kind of socialist principle worked very well for John Key when he was a child; his siblings; his widowed mum, and it gave him quite a leg up. It’s a shame he’s forgotten his roots.

  14. Annette King 14

    Thank you for your questions Bad12. In NZ we are currently building around 15,000 houses a year.A large number of them 200sq metres plus with two bathrooms, ensuite etc not in the affordable first home buyer category. In the mid 2000 s we were building around 30,000 a year and in the Norman Kirk years even more. To gear up from the current figure will take some time but construction companies I have met tell me there are people ready to work if there was investment into housing. Part of the policy is to also stimulate our apprenticeship programme and encourage NZ tradespeople home. 27,000 construction workers have left NZ in the last 4 years(latest figure I have from Construction Alliance).

    There are a number of ways to make housing affordable to low income earners- home equity schemes etc. it can be based on family income. The key issue is the deposit. Policy work underway.

    • bad12 14.1

      Tah Annette, while i don’t want to come across all pedantic, you have sort of answered one question and left a big void as an answer as far as the income group you envisage will be able to sign up as the mortgagor for the proposed ‘KiwiBuild’,

      Is the figure gleaned by one commenter from an on-line calculator of the need for a household income of $60,000 where Labour intend the ‘KiwiBuild’ to be targeted…

    • bad12 14.2

      As an afterthought can i ask you if you feel like giving any sort of answer to the question i pose in the comment i made at 5.33,

      It’s simply this, if you were instead of building 100,000 houses for sale under ‘KiwiBuild’ to build those 100,000 houses as HousingNZ stock with the specific intention of providing housing for those on the lower wages attempting to raise families would this not then be the most efficient use of resources in helping not only that decile of low paid workers but the resultant drop in demand for the purchase by landlords of housing stock would then lower the market price of such houses and logically those you see ‘KiwiBuild’ as necessary for could then afford to buy from the private market…

      • McFlock 14.2.1

        Except of course that increased home ownership would decrease demand for rental properties which would lower the price of renting, including for the lower cost areas.

        edit: was your entire comment one single sentence? Hurts me noggin.

        • bad12 14.2.1.1

          Except of course,(not having as yet elicited an actual figure from Annette), the lower wage workers who are unlikely to be able to afford a 300 thousand dollar mortgage will not benefit from this policy,

          The same ends can and would be reached by simply housing 100,000 of the lowest waged workers in HousingNZ accommodation at 25% of income, demand from the middle class for investment property would drop when demand for homes to rent in the private sector from the lower waged workers fell, property prices would then fall, plus the economy would gain a boost from the lowest waged workers paying less of their income in rent,

          Too long a question Mac, you’ve been spoiled by all those one liners you constantly engage in…

          • McFlock 14.2.1.1.1

            More like indicative of not pausing for breath.

            But I disagree with your first paragraph: the lower wage workers and unemployed/unpaid workers will benefit because the people who can afford a $300k mortgage will no longer be outbidding them in the rental market.

            But if the “same ends would be reached” with your methodology of putting all of the housing directly targeted at renting to the poor, aren’t you just splitting hairs?

            As it is, I suspect the actual proportion of the 100k homes that be state houses (or indeed, that rebuilding the state housing portfolio is a separate policy entirely) is still TBA.

            • just saying 14.2.1.1.1.1

              But if the “same ends would be reached” with your methodology of putting all of the housing directly targeted at renting to the poor, aren’t you just splitting hairs?

              No, those in greatest need should not be waiting many years for the “trickle down” of benefits.

              Btw, I have left an off-topic message for you on open mike (at or near the bottom).

              • McFlock

                got it:)

                I’m not entirely sure the “trickle down” theory applies here – it’s a case of reducing competition to bring prices down directly, rather than hoping that the largess of the well off would be spread around the area.

            • bad12 14.2.1.1.1.2

              Crumbs off of the table for the lowest wage workers Mac??? while the already much pampered children of the middle class who created the housing problem in the first place by piling all their excess cash into rental properties get further largesse from the State???…

              • McFlock

                No. I was extrapolating off your worst-case scenario that a Labour housing policy only assists people with double or thrice the median income into buying a home.

                And even then you said the same ends would be reached.

                • bad12

                  We don’t KNOW exactly the decile the Labour policy will reach, which is why i have been trying to get Annette King to put a figure on it, the policy tho isn’t finalized and perhaps Labour will come up with a good little plan which allows the low waged with families to capitalize on their working for families tax credits while giving a Government guarantee to KiwiBank to enable that bank to provide the low income workers with a mortgage,

                  However, such a policy as KiwiBuild will only house this generation, whereas a HousingNZ rental protected by long term leases would in all probability house a number of generations over the years,

                  There can be no means of stopping those who benefit from KiwiBuild from gaining enough equity in that property to use it as the means to mortgage into another property thus carrying on the current cycle…

                  • McFlock

                    The thing is that ANY policy of government funding or providing housing will affect a bunch of deciles, varying as to which ones according to how it’s done. Not to mention the economic effects that occur from housing policies interacting with other policies (CGT and benefit levels being the most obvious).

                    You seem to be asking for an exact economic prediction, which is a contradiction in terms.

            • bad12 14.2.1.1.1.3

              wht should those on the lowest wages be forced to bid in a market with other’s who have far greater means than them just to get into a decent house,

              Are you playing devils advocate here Mac,or do you really believe that housing the lowest waged workers should be discussed in terms of ‘markets’, it, according to the ‘marketeers’ is the fault of the lowest waged workers that the middle class renters can out-bid them…

              • McFlock

                oh ffs.

                I believe that the state housing property assets should be increased dramatically.

                I also believe that making single home ownership more accessible for people other than the rich will have a positive effect on the rental market and bring rents down. Even for very poor people.

                The second belief does not mean that I reject government-owned affordable rental accommodation.

                • bad12

                  Settle Mac, which just comes back to the point i was labouring tonight, it’s a matter of the political will to build such State rentals,

                  Ok, ‘Kiwibuild’ is a simple matter of a Labour Government borrowing a couple of billion the theory being that the money starts coming back as soon as the Houses are built and the mortgages are signed with the banks,

                  As Annette King pointed out tonight, Norman Kirk’s Labour Government were building 30,000 State Houses a year, so given the political will it is within the realms of possibility to be able to build 10,000 ‘KiwiBuild’ properties AND 10,000 State owned rental units in any given year,

                  Now that i could really find it in my bones to heavily support a Labour Government over,

                  My preference is that there be an ‘A’ type state house where the target is to house beneficiaries, and, a ‘B’ type state house where the target is the lowest waged workers with families,

                  Now that would take the heat out of both the rental and house sales markets…

                • bad12

                  PS, the fact that we are having this debate at all is down to poor political management where the Labour Leader has released ‘part’ of Labour’s housing policy with very few details,

                  If Labour release policy which promises to increase the number of State owned rentals by the same number as the ‘KiwiBuild’ policy with perhaps some thought being given to what i say above about having an ‘A’ and ‘B’ category where low waged workers are not barred simply by dint of actually earning a wage then i for one would shut my fat gob about Labour supporting the middle class to the detriment of the lower paid wage workers of this world…

                  • McFlock

                    I think that the reason we are having this debate is that although I broadly agree with your state housing objectives, the policy announced so far (while meaning improvements in housing affordability) is not exclusively dedicated to the specific area you want.

                    • bad12

                      Yeah sure, but then i am a SOCIALIST who believes that the resources of the State should be distributed on the basis of the greatest NEED first and foremost,

                      I sure as hell don’t believe that the housing of the lowest wage workers and their families should be left to them having to bid against the middle class to be housed by the market,

                      And i sure as hell don’t believe that the lowest wage workers should be left as fodder paying off the rental investments of the bloated middle class who over the past 10 years have been well pampered by successive Governments while the children of that bloated middle class are further pampered by Government…

                    • McFlock

                      I sure as hell don’t believe that the housing of the lowest wage workers and their families should be left to them having to bid against the middle class to be housed by the market…

                      That’s nice. If the policy said that then you might have a point. And indeed it would probably fall under the definition of “neoliberal” because it would involve the complete removal of not only state-owned rentals, but this policy, too.

                    • bad12

                      Read the comment back up the page a bit that describes succinctly ‘renters hell’ it’s not the policy it’s the reality of the rental market today,

                      i at least have a good understanding of the shifting decile of the last 30 years where the low waged workers have by dint of ‘having a wage’ been forced into the market rental sector by the rising tide of beneficiaries who qualify to be housed by the State ahead of them simply by the ‘NEED’ involved in having to survive on less than a wage,

                      That in no way lessens the NEED of those low waged workers to also be housed by the State…

                    • McFlock

                      Interesting. So even if all 100,000 homes went straight to the middle class private ownership, it would lessen the strain on the under-supplied state houses because the LMC and ULClasses aren’t also looking for income-related rents?

                      Good to know.

                    • bad12

                      What you just said is un-decypherable, perhaps you would like to repeat yourself without the use of lazy initials replacing words,

                      Whatever it is you are saying is obviously a twisting of my previous comment to suit your personal agenda,

                      You don’t own a couple of rental properties by any chance…

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, right. I’m a property developer /sarc. You ain’t reading very closely, are you.

                      Lower Middle Class. Upper Lower Class.

    • just saying 14.3

      I’d like to hear your answer to Bad12’s actual questions.

      Particularly, I’d like to know why Labour isn’t primarily focussing new housing resources on those in need. As Bad12 points out, this would have the same downstream benefits of more, better, cheaper housing. The professional middle class are doing better than than ever have. How can you jusitify even more tax-payer largesse while many are in genuine need?

      • karol 14.3.1

        Agreed, js. Annette’s answer seems to be to focus on getting people buying their own home. The 7.49pm answer is not focused on providing for a significant amount of people who may choose or need to rent, especially those for whom renting a state house would be the best option.

      • bad12 14.3.2

        LOLZ, She is after all a politician, it would be nice tho if Annette chose to roll up Her sleeves,drop the political speak and give it to me in an answer from the heart instead of the,(as yet unfinished), policy paper,

        Mind you if we really got going Karol might have to grab Her mods hammer to keep everything reasonable,(just kidding)…

    • Be bold in your policy-making, Annette.

      And in doing so, I hope you talk with people such as child-poverty documentary maker, Bryan Bruce; Gareth Morgan (he has good ideas that merit consideration); CPAG; principals from low-decile schools; Inner City ministries, and others in the community who can give invaluable advice as to what this country really needs.

      And once your policies are in place – for god’s sakes, we need to find some way to cement them in place so incoming National governments can’t readily undo them. The damage they cause to low income and middle class families with their constant cutbacks is incalculable.

      And just recently, when we have people like Tony Ryall considering advice to cut back on grommet operations for children, then we’re back to the 1990s. http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/childrens-health-not-a-high-priority-for-health-minister-tony-ryall/ (Look at the news-story “$1.5b injection for health”, dated 9 December 2001)

  15. millsy 15

    An increase in the state housing stock would probably render a capital gains tax unnecessary.

    Would push the speculators out of the market while not affecting those who dont mind a bit of give-and-take to get ahead.

    • bad12 15.1

      Aha, i made that very same comment in one or other of the posts today, a Capital Gains tax would rely on the owner selling, very slow and ponderous and just as likely to provoke those with multiple houses for investment to hold onto them while punishing those who needed to sell up and move for legitimate reasons…

      • @ Bad12, “…while punishing those who needed to sell up and move for legitimate reasons…”

        All speculative property is eventually sold. That’s the purpose of speculation.

        • bad12 15.1.1.1

          Perhaps i needed to be more exact in my reply to Millsy, what i was alluding to in the first part of my answer was to speculative investors and in the second genuine home owners who may for instance have to move cities for employment and thus would be punished by a capital gains tax if they sold up their home and moved,but then you would have known that if you had of taken a moment to think about it…

    • Sorry, no, Millsy.

      The purpose of a CGT would be to make all investments equally taxable. In doing so, hopefully NZers may actually invest in productive sectors of the economy rather than property speculation. Every time an ex-rental is sold for a profit, the extra value has to be leveraged by borrowings from overseas.

      In effect, we’re using other peoples’ savings to create the illusion of “wealth generation” in NZ. And pushing up prices at the same time, making it harder for many of our children to buy their own homes. Our private debt is now amongst the highest in the OECD and approaching Greek levels.

      I think a CGT is but one ‘weapon’ in a whole armoury to attack the property boom-and-bust cycle.

      • Colonial Viper 15.2.1

        A straight out property tax has to be part of it. 0.25% pa for on the value of every property over $1M ie. $2500 annual property tax on a $2M home, $5000 annual property tax on a $3M home.

      • millsy 15.2.2

        I am talking about a CGT in the context of the property market.

        Moreover, I think that taking (some of) the WFF spend and put it into the state/social housing seems to be a good idea.

  16. Karol’s right, Labour’s housing policy is committed to home ownership and appealing to those who can afford these $300,000 houses. And Bad12 is right, by implication this will crowd out the resources needed to build more state rentals.

    The problem with that is that it continues to feed property speculation and the mortgaging of workers to the banks who are likely to fall over crashing on workers assets again. A house and a patch of land is no security and certainly not the road to freedom, rather financial serfdom.

    That’s what’s wrong with Labour. It is committed to trying to make capitalism work when its obvious that it doesn’t work for the workers. There is no use flogging the aspirations of the middle class when the global economy is in the doldrums, and the middle class is finding out what its like to be ordinary working class.

    Ms King talks about getting all the resources lined up. But that’s dependent on the private sector. That’s why we need to revive the Public Works Department. It exists now as a subterfuge to pump subsidies into the private sector (eg Fletchers rebuild of ChCh. It was James Fletcher who ran Public Works during WW2 as well). It just needs to be given the right name and cutting out the profiteering PPPs.

    So the KiwiBuild PPP is going in exactly the wrong direction. In Auckland the only houses that most working people can afford now are inner city apartments or attached medium density housing. The new plan is for infill (which is sensible) but that will mean more flats and apartments. There is no reason to justify owning these as opposed to renting them other than too make a capital gain.

    Of course if Labour was to prick the market (its CGT is hardly a prick) and offer decent public housing with good social amenities such as many of us will have lived in overseas, this would mean Labour standing up for what its working class constituency needs and there is no sign of this happening right now.

    If Labour continues to trickledown health, education, housing, doling out bits here and patching up bits there because its first duty is to meet the needs if international capital (the Aussie banks mainly) then sooner or later it will part company with the working class that looks to the Greens and Mana promising policies to provide what used to be Labour’s bread and butter public provision of jobs, health, education and housing to boost living standards and eliminate poverty.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      then sooner or later it will part company with the working class that looks to the Greens and Mana

      Well, it’s already done that, look at the stay at home non-vote; it’s just that they haven’t gone to the Greens or Mana yet.

      • bad12 16.1.1

        Possibly hoping like i hoped for many years, that the Labour Government would become the Labour Government again instead of those other people…

      • QoT 16.1.2

        Could one put forward the theory that for the quite-leftwing-but-stayed-at-home group, voting Greens (maybe less so now they’re consistently >10%) and Mana is less appealing when the end result is still an uninspiring, possibly neoliberal, certainly unstable Labour Party in charge of things?

        • rosy 16.1.2.1

          One could put forward that theory. And at lease this one other could agree with it too.

          I’m looking for a strong, left-wing Labour party. Not a a Greens or Mana party compromised by their possible coalition with a right-wing Labour party.

          • McFlock 16.1.2.1.1

            What turns me off the Greens is the Greens.
            What turns me off Mana is their leadership.

            • gnomic 16.1.2.1.1.1

              “What turns me off the Greens is the Greens.
              What turns me off Mana is their leadership.”

              Umm, thanks for sharing about your feelings. But what has this to do with the world at large? Can you be more specific about what you are trying to say here?

              • McFlock

                Yes.
                I don’t vote for either because of the characteristics of each.

                Which, applied to the wider electorate, is as viable theory as someone not voting for the greens because they’ll be shackled to a tory labour party.

            • fatty 16.1.2.1.1.2

              What turns me off Mana is their leadership.

              What’s wrong with their leadership? What have they done or said? What do you think of their policies?

              • McFlock

                Whats wrong with Hone Harawira? Well, we can start with his claim that he wasn’t diplomatic enough to be a party leader when he was in Maori party, then what does he go and become?

                I like some of their policies, but my general feeling about Mana is the same to a certain extent as my feeling about the Greens: their focus is on one issue, and other policies are tacked on (and negotiable). I certainly don’t think Mana would sell out on non-core policies to the extent of going with national (like Maori party did), but we need a wider focused party as well a a melange of narrow-focus representatives. So it’s either Alliance or Labour for me (depending on how I feel on election day – the struggle between principle and practicality).

                • Colonial Viper

                  Well, we can start with his claim that he wasn’t diplomatic enough to be a party leader when he was in Maori party, then what does he go and become?

                  That’s a bit of an odd thing to hold against him. So, Hone admitted that he wasn’t diplomatic enough to do Maori Party coalition negotiations with John Key. He probably would have told Key where to stick it. I would have considered that mostly a positive.

                  Sure, Mana seems to have a fairly narrow focus, but as a party they only have a tiny fraction of the resources and infrastructure that the Greens and Labour have built up over decades.

                • fatty

                  same as CV…I don’t understand how that is a negative.
                  McFlock – do you think Hone should never have been in the Maori Party, or he should have stayed, or he should have left earlier?
                  Mana’s policies are fairly wide-ranging, despite how they are portrayed in the media. Education, health, housing, taxes…what do you think Mana should expand their focus into?
                  I cannot understand your critique at all…but I am interested

                  • McFlock

                    I think the Maori party went a different direction from Hone when it went with the nats. In that case, his timing was fine. But I don’t think he in particular is the right type of guy to lead a broad-base party.

                    My point is not that mana or the greens don’t have wide-ranging policies. Just that their emphasis and depth of analysis is too focused towards one particular area.

                    I don’t think that the same depth of analysis they put into environmental or Treaty issues is necessarily applied to foreign policy, defense, economic development, health, or each other’s respective areas of interest.

                    Neither of them are genuinely broad enough for my taste, but I do think that it is good for parties with a depth of thinking in those areas to be part of government. I generally agree with Green policies, and I generally agree with Mana policies. But I think that either would have policy blindspots that would be exploited by treasury or whomever should either party become the major coalition partner. Just like Labour in the 80s.

                • karol

                  I like some of their policies, but my general feeling about Mana is the same to a certain extent as my feeling about the Greens: their focus is on one issue, and other policies are tacked on (and negotiable).

                  Have you paid attention to Green MPs and their policies over the last few years? They’ve been pretty consistent on issues of poverty, unfairness, social justice, anti-poverty, human rights etc. And they focused on a significant range of issues, considering environment, nature and a livable human society and to be all inter-linked.

                  • Populuxe1

                    I can’t say as I’ve seen much depth in their policies though – lots of hand waving and things that sound nice and probably came straight from Wikipedia, but very little in the way of concrete, holistic policy planning. Gareth Hughes, for instance, wants to do away with much of our navy – but doesn’t seem to have stopped to consider that with the size of our oceanic territory, patrolling for illegal fishing etc rather requires one. Then there was a hissyfit over our navy having war games with nuclear powers because it’s baaaad – which would seriously limit our defense options. And don’t get me started on printing money…

          • LynWiper 16.1.2.1.2

            +1 Rosy 11.16pm

        • karol 16.1.2.2

          That’s a very good point, QOT. I switched my party from from Labour the Greens a few years back. Last year, for the first time, I became really worried about the negative impact of a government led by a right wing Labour caucus leadership.

          I will still vote Green/Mana, but the overall nature of the NZ opposition, because of the current political position of the Labour leadership, is worrying. Hence why I voice my criticisms.

  17. ak 17

    Jesus H Fracking Christ

    ah farook, what now…..

    Get your erse up here. Now! What the frack’s happening in section 75831G?

    nothing…

    Nothing my sweet panuba. I’m getting reports of inteference every fracking G year and it’s keeping me awake. How many times must I tell you – GOVERNANCE you little wonker, leave the bustards alone

    ah frock that…..

    Sarry?

    You hord me. Little crunts are going backwards in a big hurry, just gim a few wee reminders….pracks nearly elected a sheep in Gunnica so wee storm nothing special

    Yeah but why the frack the action in special section Z? Thought they were still leading the pack?

    ha ha ha. Nup. Picked a frackin pharisee, mao I hate those crunts, but yeah ok. Bit over the top mebee. Yeah made em stop hating their nuggers, still not clicking maori mao fock how many hints yo need but hay they took my name in Z1, expected better….

    So you smash em? Is that a mature reaction do you thint?

    Frack off. Just a wee shakeup. And it didn’t work anyway, dipshots are building a new templefornobody in wait for it……cardboard. ha ha thats ship in case you didn’t knowl…

    And our peeps in G?

    Frocked. Gim a new mouth and wont use it sep for infighting….dog eat dog in my image e vun, heh ya neva know but heh course ya do heh but see a king toppy engaging evun as we speak…..mebbeee loining

    OJ. Stick down there then, work on em. But softly, GOVERNANCE!

    yeah yeah yeah. unless they keep possin me off and then its moving north and it wont be wee…..

  18. xtasy 18

    Karol and others here are right, when they question and criticise the disconnect between the greatly announced “Kiwi Build” policy, and what Labour did actually state in it’s 2011 election manifesto!

    What Shearer, the Council and caucus are engaging in is nothing but:
    The battle for the hearts of the “middle class”, whatever it may look like these days, there in that much referred to “centre” of NZ.

    It is a battle against the present government and National, who have offered much less in the way of housing solutions, well, next to nothing.

    State housing has just been raised again by Mike Smith in his last article here, and he tries to serve up “political left-overs” of “stale” policies from the 2011 manifesto.

    It is poor, poor and absolutely unconvincing, and only if a proper, clear, comprehensive state housing policy will get announced in the coming months, will others who will not fall into the category of those qualifying for a 300 k home start to rethink their reservations towards Labour.

    There are so far no plans we can see for proper, expanded state housing schemes, with or without non government players.

    Also this government under the two faced master of BS, John Key, has been high on their ideology, repeatedly going on about too many staying in Housing NZ homes, who should not be there.

    Well, there are apparently 31 per cent who have lived in a Housing NZ home for 10 years or more, but is that such a huge catastrophe, as people tend to live in homes as long as they can, when they fulfill their needs.

    No, everyone is to be reviewed, scared and intimidated, every 3 years now, that is what Heatley wants, and that is what National want. Selling state homes to make way for large block of tiny shoebox units, and selling the rest of the land to developers is the agenda.

    It is equally appalling, if Labour want to use Housing NZ and other Crown land to allow Kiwi Build homes on, and then perhaps herding Housing NZ tenants in blocks of tiny apartments.

    The NZ Herald had this interesting story today, showing the more realistic situation with Housing NZ homes being tenanted for various periods (mostly justifiably):

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858440

    • karol 18.1

      Thanks for the link, xtasy. And that article surely is propaganda for the housing market profiteers. And they are fishing for personal stories of people who have been in state houses long term, so they can parade them before the public, as an example of what they think needs to change.

      I’m so glad to hear that for some people, a state house has pretty much meant a home for life. Such was the way it was back in the 40s and early 50s.

      I agree xtasy, the NAct government is just creating uncertainty for those on low incomes, and little alternatives other than being frequently moved on. And this at a time when the wealth gap is large and not looking like getting any smaller, while NZ is continuing down the road of a low wage economy.

      Any housing policy should be developed along side policies to ensure a living wage for all.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 18.1.1

        The income increase aspect is bullshit as well. It’s not like there’s the same job security there was in the sixties.

        People’s jobs can disappear in a heartbeat.

        And let’s say I’m a mother whose child is born with severe disabilties and I choose to look after him and save the state from doing so. Well there is 18 years but wait he still needs looking after as an adult so I do that as well.

        10 years is a pittance in many cases.

        Why arbitrarily use 10?

        Ewwwwww I just noticed this at the bottom:

        “Tell us

        Do you know someone in one of the longest state house tenancies?

        Email: newsdesk@nzherald.co.nz

        That just makes my skin crawl.

        • just saying 18.1.1.1

          The government doesn’t need to pay for “dob in a bene” media campaigns a la the Shipley era. Today’s media will gratefully lap up information for salacious OIA requests, as well as dream up their own, and wage war on the poor for them, free of charge.

          I wonder if the “journalists” who pump out this cheap shit ever feel a little bit sick about what they have become. I can’t imagine anyone dreaming of becoming the reporter who sucks up to the rich and powerful and eagerly plays bully-boy for them.

        • AsleepWhileWalking 18.1.1.2

          Invasive pricks. They’ll probably hang around outside and harass the occupants for an interview, photographing them in “public” (just outside their front door).

          Well spotted DoSS

        • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.3

          Tory Herald Pricks.

        • xtasy 18.1.1.4

          The NZ media is increasingly becoming “Nazi like”, I am afraid, and it must have something to do with the ones sitting in control, whether senior editors, managers, all thinking of pleasing “shareholders” in their corporate boxes, to feel “pleased” yet again, about the “right kind of” reporting they love to see.

          Fuck NZ MSM!!!

    • millsy 18.2

      Dont have a problem with state housing tenants being in their house since the war. Security and stability is a good think IMO, nothing can be achived by moving families from house to house.

      With security, families can thrive.

  19. What any government could do is face reality, and start building ablution blocks for all the tent cities that are going to start popping up, once the welfare payments reduce then stop ….. they should be planing for the unavoidable future we all face.
    This system is heading for cardiac arrest. if not already on life support … $300 million per week is a bloody fat tube stuck in our guts.
    Once the ponzie scam that is fiat money hits the final overload switch, there will be nothing of $ value anywhere on the planet, as a $ will only be worth what use you can put a peace of paper to – like lighting fires, or a dart maybe?
    Once there is no food available, a $ becomes worthless, investing in say Australian wheat or rice over the next few years – you might understand what I’m on about.

    Housing is a right ……………… there are no ‘rights’ …. We are just bloody lucky to have what we have at any point in time, after all we are no different than bacteria in a Petri dish.
    Who gave us these so called ‘rights’?
    In reality ‘might’ is the only ‘right’, might gives you the ability to take or withhold something, say like the government, or that big bully at school, or the USA.
    In the end it depends what end of the gun you are at to how many rights you might have )

    • Robert you are a mighty activist bacteria who jumped out of the petri dish.

      “Rights” such as housing rights were won by big fights, usually involving the use of guns by those who opposed those rights. The bigger the concession the bigger the guns.

      The General Strike of 1913 threatened capitalist rule in NZ. So out came the military and the Cossacks. They were shit scared that the Red Fed would follow the Bolsheviks and have a revolution. The state forces and mercenaries won then and gave us the Labour Party as our booby prize. Labour then conceded a welfare state including state housing to implement the WB Sutch Keynesian plan to insulate the economy and boost state spending for economic development.

      Of course labour abandoned that plan when it could not longer produce profits in NZ, and it is now working for international finance capital.

      100 years is long enough to wait for the another general strike which is what happens when all the bacteria jump out of the petri dish.

      • Robert Atack 19.1.1

        Unfortunately Red as I’ve found, once you jump out of the petri dish you land on a cold unforgiving lab floor, which is what this planet is fast becoming.
        Alas 1 dysfunctional planet divided by 7 billion parasites = a very dark future, for the parasites anyway.

  20. Cactus Kate Viper 20

    Having used the 7th best Mayor in the worlds train system, may I suggest a great start is to tender out building apartment blocks over the rail stops and sell these as Kiwibuild?

    I do not think Kiwibuild is the right policy for a left coalition true Labour party. It is more a National policy. It is a middle class populist policy aimed at the swing middle class voter. A Labour policy would be building 100,000 state houses and renting them to lower income people.

    For a start to put you off – if I came back to New Zealand and had the sort of job I had when I left, I would most likely qualify as a first time home buyer for Shearer’s policy based on what I have read thus far.

    Is that *really* where you should be aiming the policy as a Labour Party with Greens/Mana partners?

    • xtasy 20.1

      Cactus Kate Viper – thank you for your honest views on this.

      Yes, in some ways I agree, but there needs to be much more done than offer affordable, decent homes for the poor. The housing market here in Auckland is in a bizarre, insane state, and neither government, nor private investors are doing enough to address it.

      Expanding city development, building on greenfields are also not going to solve much.

      I see some new developments in Mt Wellington, Panmure and so, but more is needed, also to be affordable. I do not totally rubbish Kiwi Build, as it can set a damper on price growth, but it is still too much full of flaws, a major one being the “affordable” land.

      By the way, who wants to build on Crown land or other leasehold land, getting an affordable house, when in future the ground underneath may be up for debate and huge increases of costs?

      Most people want more certainty, certainly fairness, and a smartly thought out plan. Forgive me, I am NOT a Cunliffe fan, but I again fear, that man may have more of an answer to this challenge, than the present “leader” of sorts that is heading Labour.

  21. Fortran 21

    In using the good Kiwibuild model proposed it has been suggested that Kiwibank finance the mortgages of the buyers with low subsidised interest rates.
    Many existing Kiwibank mortgage holders would not be very happy that they would be subsidising these subsidised rates.

    • xtasy 21.1

      What is more common in some continental European countries is, to have collective housing projects. People can invest in them and build their own block of flats, townhouses or whatever, or they can even come in later, and rent to buy!

      Now that is something I would favour and see as a winner. Get more rent to buy schemes on the market, which will of course mean paying more than for a Housing NZ home, but then again, the rent will go into the investment, and people will own their homes after so many years.

      Cut out the bloody banks, dead interest paid to “investors” or whatever, that is a thought worth having. Also doing things collectively cuts costs, as bulk buying and doing is always cheaper, unless you are a bloody idiot or no-hoper.

      • Colonial Viper 21.1.1

        What is more common in some continental European countries is, to have collective housing projects. People can invest in them and build their own block of flats, townhouses or whatever, or they can even come in later, and rent to buy!

        What is the typical business structure of such a collective housing project? Let’s take the case of a small 3 or 4 level apartment block. A developer raises funds by selling shares in the whole project, but not in individual apartments within the project?

        • karol 21.1.1.1

          I think it starts with the cooperative. Some London examples reported on here.

          The co-operative paid £620,000 for the property in Walthamstow, with the purchase financed by loans from Co-operative & Community Finance (which lends to organisations owned and controlled by their members) and a linked organisation, the Co-operative Loan Fund, plus various individuals and other housing co-ops. But the bulk of the money came in the form of a 75% mortgage from Yorkshire-based Ecology building society….

          The Drive housing co-op has been structured as a registered not-for-profit body that owns the property and provides accommodation on a purely rental basis. Only the tenants can be members, and they will pay about £500 a month in rent to the co-op, which will be their landlord. Each member has a single £1 share, and, crucially, individual members can’t gain or lose from changes in the value of the property.

          • xtasy 21.1.1.1.1

            Karol: That sounds similar to what I have heard about, and what I suggest!

            Of course there may still be a collective mortgage, loan or whatever, but they also have some different banks on continental Europe, which are a bit more like the traditional ‘savings banks”.

            Sadly the EU regulators decided some time ago, they favour the market players, who then again are the ones largely responsible for the GFC, right?!

            Some may be ok, but others went mad, lent, borrowed and got themselves into the shits, so good old governments bailed the fuckers out.

          • Colonial Viper 21.1.1.1.2

            Cheers Karol. (and Xtasy)

            • xtasy 21.1.1.1.2.1

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_cooperative

              See this for some historic info on collective or co-operative housing CV.

              Sorry, I rushed a bit with slagging off on “share holders”. Indeed, the unit ownerships are “shares” that members of such collectives own or invest in.

              But it is all NON PROFIT, which is what we really want, is it not?!

          • xtasy 21.1.1.1.3

            Karol: You can get even cheaper rents in Germany and other Central European countries, yet get excellent equipment with modern chattels, utilities and such, and a fair bit cheaper than the average rental in NZ, where you get a stove, but may have to clean the crap out generations of pre renters left behind. Also in Europe people (and landlords) make long term agreements, so tenants are able to, and happy to, decorate, equip the interior to their liking, while in NZ, I never bloody know, when the landlord may say, f. off, I want to sell.

            Hence tenants in NZ have little incentive to bother with looking too much after the place. It is all short term, non committal and leads to endless problems due to that.

            But then again, we have some “cultural” differences between here and certain other countries.

        • xtasy 21.1.1.2

          It is indeed more run on a kind of “trust basis” there, nothing to do with developers selling shares. That anglo saxon “share business” must be crapped out of people’s brains, please, as it is always implying “profit”, “gain”, “win win” and so forth.

          There are many other models for doing things, and developers in NZ may in some cases be genuine and decent folk, but hang on, I met so many rat-bags, it was not funny.

          Living in a rented unit a few years ago, at the end of the property hype, that taught me a life lesson CV, I had landlord after landlord speculate, buy from one another, and hope for a higher sales price next year, so I never had any security of accommodation.

          Eventually I was out, now I am with an “old fashioned” small scale NZ Chinese property owner, who has proved to be the best of all of the landlords I ever had in NZ. She is investing for the long run, she told me, she is not interested in selling. Few are like that though. So collective schemes are an alternative.

          It happens in big cities and smaller ones, in Berlin and other places, so it is a go.

  22. the sprout 22

    Fantastic post karol, an invaluable critique.
    Much appreciated.

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  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 hours ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    7 hours ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    10 hours ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    13 hours ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    13 hours ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    14 hours ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    14 hours ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 day ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 day ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 day ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    2 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    2 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    2 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    5 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    5 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    5 days ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    6 days ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    6 days ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    7 days ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • 2018 – Submission to the NZ Government Tax Working Group
    Read our submission here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Guardian: Poll shows DISASTER for Corbyn and the End of Times
    The Guardian - ever eager to forewarn of doom and disaster on the left - are leading with a new poll from Opinium, which puts the Conservatives 15% clear of Labour.Con 38% +2Lab 23% -1Lib Dem 15% -5Brexit 12% +1Green 4% +2This isn't good news, and it would be very ...
    1 week ago
  • How prostitution became the world’s most modern profession
    Being and Being Bought (Spinifex Press, 2013) by Kajsa Ekis Ekman  A synopsis and commentary of Chapters 1-2 by Daphna Whitmore Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book She opens the discussion with a definition of ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Clever legal fellow on Scottish challenge to Brexit
    I make no claims to having much legal knowledge,  so I defer to those trained in this area.I am very much enjoying this twitter stream from m'learned friend in Edinburgh, deciphering the legal arguments around the Scottish court challenge to Boris Johnson, based on the charmingly obscure principle of Nobile ...
    2 weeks ago
  • An Open Letter From Closed Minds.
    Ivory Folly? The University of Auckland’s Vice-Chancellor, Professor Stuart McCutcheon, upheld the right of the radical nationalist group, Action Zealandia to exercise their freedom of speech – not matter how distasteful that speech might be. A wiser community of students and scholars would have nodded their agreement and moved on. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Extinction Rebellion members want to “eat babies”
    If you are not convinced terrorist Organisation ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is very, very dangerous – watch this video at one of their recent meetings. Not only is this obviously mentally ill Woman begging the other terrorists to promote killing and “eating” babies and children, if you watch carefully other members nod ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    2 weeks ago
  • The government needs to tell people about the OIA
    The Ombudsman has been surveying people about their knowledge of the OIA and the right to information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that widespread:The Chief Ombudsman says too many New Zealanders were in the dark over their right to access official information. Peter Boshier said an independent survey released yesterday on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Join the rebellion
    In the wake of last Friday's climate strike, Peter McKenzie had an article in The Spinoff about protest strategies. The school strike movement is "polite" and cooperates with those in power because that's its kaupapa - its led by schoolkids who understandably don't want to risk arrest. But there's more ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Jermey Corbyn, I don’t like GNU (sorry)
    So, the latest ruminations on the gnews from Westminster (Again, sorry; I'll stop making that pun right now).  This follows on from, and likely repeats bits of, my last post, on the suggestion that a Government of National Unity (GNU) should be set up and then oversee a referendum before ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • About time
    New Zealand likes to think of itself as not a racist country (despite being founded on the racist dispossession and subjugation of Maori). But for years, we've had a racist refugee policy, which basicly excludes refugees from Africa and the Middle East unless they already have relatives here. Now, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Legal Beagle: Vexation, or Something Too Long for Twitter
    Several people have asked me whether a particular repeat litigant could be declared a vexatious litigant, in light of their recent decision to appeal an adverse High Court ruling. My nascent tweet thread was getting ridiculously long, so it became this blog post instead.The short answer is: no. The particular ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Zealandia’s Lost Boys.
    Appealing To The Past: Action Zealandia, like so many of the organisations springing up on the far-Right, across what they call the “Anglosphere”, is born out of the profound confusion over what a man is supposed to be in the twenty-first century and, more importantly, what he is supposed to do.THE STATUE OF ...
    2 weeks ago
  • British trade union and political activists defend women’s right to speak, organise
      The attempts of anti-democratic transactivists to (often violently) disrupt women’s rights organising is largely ignored by those sections of the left most prone to misogyny and authoritarianism in New Zealand.  In Britain, however, scores of trade union and left activists added their names to a letter in July, defending ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Turning their back on justice
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill. The Bill would establish an independent, quasi-judicial body to investigate and review potential miscarriages of justice, and refer them back to the Court of appeal if required. It would be a vital backstop to our judiciary, help ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
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    2 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
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    3 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
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    4 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
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    5 days ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
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    5 days ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
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    6 days ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
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    6 days ago
  • Further details of Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall visit to New Zealand
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed further details on the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall’s visit to New Zealand next month. Their Royal Highnesses will visit New Zealand from 17-23 November – their third joint visit to New Zealand and first in four years. They arrive in Auckland ...
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    6 days ago
  • O’Connor in Thailand to push for RCEP deal
    Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth and Minister of Agriculture, Damien O’Connor, heads to Thailand today to attend the final Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) Ministerial meeting, as negotiations enter their final stages. “The RCEP Agreement would anchor New Zealand in a regional agreement that covers 16 countries, ...
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    6 days ago
  • Young Pacific people can access earning and learning opportunities in Hawke’s Bay, Otago and South...
    Pacific young people living in the Hawke’s Bay, Southland and Otago regions will have access to support services that have proved successful in helping young people find new earning and learning opportunities. “Tupu Aotearoa is about changing Pacific young peoples’ lives. Our young people are talented, they are smart, they ...
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    7 days ago
  • Protecting wellbeing – ACC HQSC Trauma Forum
    Introduction As the Minister for ACC I thank you all for the work that you do supporting New Zealanders in their literally most vulnerable moments. From those who hold people’s lives in their hands, to the people who research technique, technology and trends, your work is highly valued. A special ...
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    7 days ago
  • NZ economy in good shape – notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch
    Notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch – Wednesday 9 October 2019 Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • World Mental Health Day a reminder of the importance of mental health work
    Minister of Health Dr David Clark and Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare say this year’s World Mental Health Day theme is a reminder of why the Government’s work on mental health is so important. “This year the World Federation for Mental Health has made suicide prevention the main theme ...
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    7 days ago
  • Cultural Ministers Meeting
    Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni will represent the government at Australia’s Meeting of Cultural Ministers in Adelaide this week. “This year’s meeting is special because New Zealand is expected to become an International Member of the Meeting of Cultural Ministers at this Australian forum,” Carmel Sepuloni said. “The meeting is an opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 608 claims resolved by GCCRS in first year
    The Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service has resolved 608 insurance and EQC claims in its first year in operation, Minister Megan Woods has announced. The government service, which celebrates its first birthday today, provides a one stop shop to help Cantabrians still battling to get their homes repaired or rebuilt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy in good shape
    Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There has been an increasing amount of attention paid to the outlook ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZTA to refocus on safety following review
    The Government is acting swiftly to strengthen NZTA’s regulatory role following a review into the Transport Agency, and Ministry of Transport’s performance as its monitor, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. An independent review by Martin Jenkins has found NZTA failed to properly regulate the transport sector under the previous ...
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    1 week ago
  • Joint Cooperation Statement on Climate Change between the Netherlands and New Zealand
    The Netherlands and New Zealand have a long-standing and close relationship based on many shared interests and values. We value the rule of law, our democracies, and multilateralism.  And we value our environment – at home and globally. Right now there are major global challenges in all of these areas – ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government putting right Holidays Act underpayment in Health
    The Government is putting right a decade’s worth of underpayment to nurses, doctors and other health workers, says Health Minister Dr David Clark.  Initial sampling of District Health Boards payroll records has found that around $550-$650 million is owed to DHB staff to comply with the Holidays Act. It’s expected ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government accounts show strong economy
    A strong surplus and low debt show the economy is performing well, and means the Government is in a good position to meet the challenges of global economic uncertainty. “The surplus and low levels of debt show the economy is in good shape. This allows the Government to spend more ...
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    1 week ago
  • Ministers approve application to expand Waihi mine
    New applications from mining company OceanaGold to purchase land in Waihi for new tailings ponds associated with its gold mines have been approved. Minister of Finance Grant Robertson and Associate Minister of Finance David Parker considered the applications under the Overseas Investment Act. Earlier this year, applications from OceanaGold to ...
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    1 week ago
  • Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla launches with tribute to tangata whenua
    New Zealanders in Tūranganui-a-Kiwa / Poverty Bay will witness Māori, Pākehā and Pacific voyaging traditions come together today as the Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla assembles for the first time, Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti Minister Kelvin Davis says. “Tuia 250 is a national commemoration and an opportunity for honest conversations ...
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    1 week ago
  • Visit to advance trade agenda with Europe and the Commonwealth
    Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker leaves tomorrow for Dubai, London and Berlin for a series of meetings to advance New Zealand’s trade interests.  In Dubai he will visit New Zealand’s Pavilion at Expo 2020 where construction is underway.  There he will meet Minister of State for International Cooperation, Her ...
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    1 week ago