Technology and democracy

23 comments on “Technology and democracy ”

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1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

   26 April 2016 at 7:59 am

   What other techniques are already in use?

   How many people would have to be involved in the manipulation? Is it a plausible conspiracy to pull off without, y’know, jailtime?
   • Gosman 1.1

     26 April 2016 at 8:11 am

     What law would they be breaking?
     • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

       26 April 2016 at 8:37 am

       Good question. Section 218 of the electoral act 1993, I expect.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         26 April 2016 at 9:38 am

         Electoral Act 1993
2. stunnedmullett 2

   26 April 2016 at 8:22 am

   Labour should go hard on Facebook and twitter – that’ll be sure to get the missing million.
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     26 April 2016 at 10:42 am

     Imagine if they had done that in 2014 with raising the retirement age and CGT’ing your holiday bach.
3. Sirenia 3

   26 April 2016 at 8:24 am

   I heard that the Tories used such data in their last UK election campaign. It is very expensive but very easy to profile people and target election material to them. I expect the Nats with their millions of dollars in donor funds are already looking at something similar.
4. George Hendry 4

   26 April 2016 at 8:25 am

   “The world’s greatest crimes (like invasions, genocides, banks too big to be allowed to fail, etc) are never against any law that matters.”

   On this site poll and election related blogposts often elicit the longest discussion threads. In such threads comments are practically never made about how polls/elections could be/have already been shown to be manipulated and rigged. Instead, discussion based on provided figures seems to take their accuracy and trustworthiness for granted.

   When it becomes accepted that poll news could be just as full of lies as what the bought and sold media supply on other topics, only then will it be possible to start deselecting a government like this one.
   • Phil 4.1

     26 April 2016 at 1:17 pm

     In such threads comments are practically never made about how polls/elections could be/have already been shown to be manipulated and rigged.

     Are you new here?
     I haven’t seen a poll post on here, or kiwiblog, or the DimPost, or any other NZ political-blog, where at least half a dozen people are commenting on how it’s all lies and polls are rubbish.

     But here’s the thing: polls (in NZ specifically, but globally more generally) are still actually pretty good at getting election results right. The accuracy of polling data out of the US primary season over the last few months is a good example of this.
     • Augustus 4.1.1

       26 April 2016 at 4:18 pm

       Polls tend to get election results “right” about a week or 24 hours prior to the actual election. A year or even a month out, there is no checking whatsoever how accurate they might have been. They can however be used to create a perception, which is what the post alludes to?
       • Phil 4.1.1.1

         27 April 2016 at 12:43 pm

         Polls tend to get election results “right” about a week or 24 hours prior to the actual election. A year or even a month out, there is no checking whatsoever how accurate they might have been.

         Of course polling results are not predictive a month or more out – voters are still changing their mind!

         They’re also not designed, nor ever purport to be, “predictive” far in advance. That’s just a straw-man put up by critics of polling who want to prey on ignorance. Polling is all about understanding the intentions of the nation/state/region today.
5. Incognito 5

   26 April 2016 at 8:53 am

   Very good topic & post.

   I see this as one more reason to avoid electronic voting. Keep it separated and different, mentally and physically, from the internet. Booths should be a device-free zone IMO. Yes, unlikely to happen, I know; even in public swimming pools people walk around with phones taking photos of their offspring …
6. The lost sheep 6

   26 April 2016 at 8:55 am

   As Orwell said, Propaganda only works on those who are already inclined to agree with the message.
   Undecided voters have the right to accept any influence they choose. They can’t be forced to do something they don’t actively decide to agree with.
   It’s no conspiracy. It’s freedom.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1

     26 April 2016 at 9:02 am

     You clearly haven’t even glanced at the relevant research: the effect it claims works on undecided voters. It’s a Psychology paper, so by no means reliable, and it would help your argument if you actually knew what it said, no?
   • weka 6.2

     26 April 2016 at 11:21 am

     “They can’t be forced to do something they don’t actively decide to agree with.”

     Strawman, given that no-one is talking about force.

     You are also missing the fact that people can be influenced unconsciously.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.1

       26 April 2016 at 12:35 pm

       Sheep actively chooses to employ these feeble, unconvincing ‘arguments’. Cretinhood has nothing to do with it.
7. mac1 7

   26 April 2016 at 9:45 am

   If anyone should doubt that this National government will not use its power to influence elections, then consider that it has decided not to allow enrolments on Election Day at the booths. Reason given? Too much work, and confusing, for the booth officials. 2 million voted on election day itself, and 1.35% would make it too difficult, according to the Minister.

   That’s 402 per electorate. That’s on average 40 per hour throughout an electorate.

   In 2005. there were 6100 booths operating. That would mean about 6100 booths processing 27000 unenrolled. That is 4.4 persons over the entire 10 hour day for each booth.

   That is too difficult for the resources of the State?

   There are officials already dedicated to special votes processing in each polling place.

   Result in 2014? 27,000 had their votes disallowed. That number is about what is required to elect a list MP. Close elections could be determined simply by this ploy.
   • James 7.1

     26 April 2016 at 4:48 pm

     Have people ever been able to register on polling day?

     If Labour had this under their government – then perhaps there is something to the argument that it shouldn’t be allowed and that both governments were right.

     Of course – you could put on a tin foil hat and say is just National trying to influence elections.
     • Liberal Realist 7.1.1

       26 April 2016 at 6:21 pm

       Have people ever been able to register on polling day?

       Yes they have. I had to register at the polling booth for the 05 election which allowed me to cast a special vote.

       If Labour had this under their government – then perhaps there is something to the argument that it shouldn’t be allowed and that both governments were right.

       Yes it should be allowed, it’s called democracy.

       Of course – you could put on a tin foil hat and say is just National trying to influence elections.

       Do you believe your own bullshit? JK could put on one his many hats (I’m sure he has a tinfoil hat in the collection, w ponytail to boot) and proclaim honestly that National use Crosby Textor to assist them with influencing elections. It’s the truth, yes?
     • mac1 7.1.2

       27 April 2016 at 2:05 pm

       So, James, considering that it was possible in the past, and considering that the resources of the state are vast, and considering that democracy and the vote is so important, why then do you think that National do not now allow election day enrolment?

       Administrative difficulty? As Key and his ministers are fond of saying, “I can find you another opinion on that……”

       Tin foil hats not required to spot electoral advantage to National in this one. Causal relationship or ‘unfortunate’ corollary?
8. Bill 8

   26 April 2016 at 10:19 am

   What was that line from the old Stranglers song? “Tell you what they’re gonna do ’cause they’re doin it already” (Something like that).

   Anyway, between the double (triple?) whammy of a loaded press, constricted google searches and the bias of the press already being amplified through face book ‘likes’ arriving on your feed from people you already have a vague something in common with …

   Story from a while back. Some left leaning guy apparently and quite deliberately used his facebook page to engage with right wingers. Facebook stepped in. I can’t quite remember the details of how they blocked him…removed screeds of ‘friends’ or some such.

   Google. Ever tried searching Kevin Anderson? I’ve done it quite a lot for climate change info. What I’ve never clicked on is any page to do with a tennis player called Kevin Anderson. Yet (and remembering google is meant to ‘target’ your searches based on previous searches – a problem in and of itself), every time I google Kevin Anderson, I have to specify CC or all I get is an entire page of Kevin Anderson the tennis player.

   Our access to info is already heavily proscribed and I’ve no doubt a huge amount of manipulative imagery (both deliberate and unintentional, noticed and subliminal) is flooding through us from our computer screens just as it has, for years, from our TV screens. (K – I know no-one watches TV anymore…I think…hope. fuck. Do people still watch TV?)
9. Phil 9

   26 April 2016 at 1:24 pm

   The power of social media is different from that of old media. Filtering your peer group is much subtler, and could be much more persuasive than regular media.

   There’s a lot of recent, really interesting, study into how social networks have evolved. The overriding takeaway for me is that social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook (and even Wikipedia!) have coalesced into a vehicle for a relatively small number of powerful individuals/entities to widely disseminate information to a mostly passive (i.e consumers, not producers of content) audience.

   In other words: social networking sites act like traditional media.
10. James 10

    26 April 2016 at 4:50 pm

    Really interesting post.

    it is a huge concern – and its only going to get more significant.

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