web analytics

The difference between the Wellington protests and the pro Ukraine protests in Russia

Written By: - Date published: 7:59 am, February 26th, 2022 - 76 comments
Categories: covid-19, human rights, Russia - Tags:

Currently in this world there are two significant protests occurring, both similar but at the same time completely different.

In Wellington the Clownvoy protesters:

  • Think they live in a despotic nation
  • Are treated really well by police
  • Think they are protesting in support of freedom
  • Insist in being able to park outside the protest even though this blocks up a major Wellington thoroughfare
  • Think that any police action taken is an attack on their freedoms
  • Walk around abusing locals, students, shop workers …
  • Are indirectly receiving support from Putin
  • Are infiltrated and supported by Nazis
  • Use children as shields
  • Have been accused of but deny flinging poop
  • Are really upset at the thought they may be arrested
  • Some of them may be wearing tinfoil hats

In Russia the pro Ukraine protesters:

  • Know they are living in a despotic nation
  • Are arrested instantly by police when they protest
  • Are protesting in support of fellow human beings living in a neighbouring country
  • Do not insist on parking directly outside where they are protesting
  • Know that the police will arrest them but are prepared to take a stand for their fellow human beings
  • Do not abuse anyone
  • Have received no support from Putin
  • No Nazis to be seen anywhere
  • No children have been involved in their protests
  • No poop has been flung
  • None of them are wearing tinfoil hats.

76 comments on “The difference between the Wellington protests and the pro Ukraine protests in Russia ”

  1. Jenny how to get there 1

    The main difference is selfish vs. selfless

    The Russians being attacked by the Russian authorities for protesting, are acting selflessly to help people they don't even know who speak a different language in another country.

    The New Zealanders not being attacked by the New Zealand authorities for protesting, are acting selfishly to harm people they don't even know who speak the same language in the same country.

    …..We try to work out whether, on balance, we should send our kids to school. Into the line of fire of Covid, maybe.

    …..one of our kids has underlying conditions that mean he may be hit substantially harder than other kids his age.

    ….One of the things that is making our decision easier are the vaccine mandates. We know that all the adults our kids come into contact with are, at least, double vaccinated. Most are boosted as well. The mandates have extracted those who refused.

    Those protesting for the mandates to be removed are actively endangering my child’s life, and all of those kids who also have underlying conditions that make them more vulnerable. They are also endangering all those patients in the health sector who are more vulnerable….

    The mental dilemma of the anti-mandate brigade

    Andrew Dickson17:00, Feb 25 2022

    • mikesh 1.1

      The Russians being attacked by the Russian authorities for protesting, are acting selflessly to help people they don't even know who speak a different language in another country.

      Or perhaps they are Navalny supporters who don't like Putin very much; using the invasion as pretext for kicking up a stink. Or am I just being cynical.

      • Jenny how to get there 1.1.1

        The Russian Peace protesters are undeniably being treated very harshly by the Russian authorities compared to our so called 'Freedom" protesters.

        If I was you mikesh, I would answer your last query "…am I just being cynical."

        With a, "Yes"

        The first victim of war is truth.

        The second victim is civilians.

        ….three civilians had been killed in the eastern port city and six others injured in Russia’s invasion.

        Emergency services said a boy was killed in eastern Ukraine’s Kharkiv region after shelling struck an apartment building..

        …..a military plane with 14 people on board crashed south of Kyiv with officials still determining how many people died, while a transport plane crashed in Russia killing the crew.
        Russia denied reports its aircraft or armoured vehicles had been destroyed. Russian-backed separatists claimed to have downed two Ukrainian planes.

        Al Jazeera was unable to independently verify the casualty figures.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-casualties-death-toll

      • North 1.1.2

        Yes, cynical indeed. The lot of the pro-Ukraine protesters is seen in the bullet points. The Clownvoy likes to think it suffers; that too is seen in the bullet points.

      • CrimzonGhost 1.1.3

        Navalny supporters not the only political opposition to Putin. One thing in common between protests is many factions. Russian Neo Nazis love Putin.

  2. Reality 2

    A letter to the Dom Post today suggests if the 'Camp Covid' protesters/idle and disorderly unhygienic layabouts/seriously disturbed, nazi sympathisers and any other categories, are so concerned about freedom they head or drive off, to the Russian Embassy in Karori.

  3. Just Saying 3

    What's going on here?

    What is the reason for this post?

    I genuinely don't get it. This is a sad day, seeing this here.

    • Jenny how to get there 3.1

      Just Saying, what is reason for your objection to this post?

      Just asking.

      • Anker 3.1.1

        Just putting my twopence in here Jenny. I can't answer for Just saying of course.

        I don't object to the post. I am a beliver in free speech. But it seems like the posts underlying message, not so subtley made, is protesters in Russia good. Protesters in parliament bad.

        There are undoubtedly some peaceful protesters at parliament. Probably the majority. Almost 30% of them labour voters, 15% of them Green. That is nearly half of them at the time of the Curia survey.

        I have no doubt at all there are some very anti social types there and the alt right is involved too.

        I think we run into some very tricky territory if we start saying one group of protesters are good, one are bad.

        IMO the Govt has treated these people with contempt. Given 30% of them are Maori, I think the suggestion that the Maori caucus or representatives of this should have gone and talked to them. They are afterall citizens, even if some of us, myself included, have no time for their views.

        With the court judgemenat and the Govt rolling back on unvaccinated kids playing sport and the possibility that vaccine passports will no longer be required, it seems like the protesters did have some points.

        On the other hand without realizing it these protestors have been running their own scientific experiement. What happens when you get a group of people 70% unvaxed living in close quarters, when you have omicron presenting in the camp? Do tin foil hats work? (Of course they don't, but there is nothing like experiencial learning. Often it is better to let people find out for themselves rather than trying to change peoples minds. That doesn't mean I don't think the protesters should have been moved on.

        • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1.1

          Hi Anker, have you never heard the saying, "Everything before 'But' is bullshit"?

          "I am a beliver in free speech. But it seems like the posts underlying message, not so subtley made, is protesters in Russia good. Protesters in parliament bad". Anker

          You're right it is not subtly made, that is exactly what the message is. You obviously don't agree with it.

          The Peace protesters in Russia are bravely protesting in a totalitarian state where protesters can receive long sentences in prison under harsh conditions.

          Pussy Riot sentenced to two years in prison colony over anti-Putin protest

          The Freedom protesters in Wellington are protesting in a democracy with a centre-left government, where they will not be jailed for protesting, at worst they could face charges for trespass and illegal parking, which might attract fines. The also might face charges for throwing exrement and charging police lines in a car. Even then they wouldn't be facing two years in a prison colony.

          You say you support free speech, but you oppose the appearance of this post?

          Can’t you see the contradiction?

          Unfortunately for you, (and fortunately for our democracy), you are not in a position to censor it.

          • Anker 3.1.1.1.1

            Hi Jenny, I don’t agree “everything before but is bullshit”

            For example if someone said “I support labour, but I don’t like their housing policy “

            or “I agree with protesting, but I don’t like the way these protesters are conducting themselves “

            btw these are just examples, I am not attributing them to anyone.

            I sincerely do believe in free speech.
            and I think my opening remark was “I don’t object to the post” I do not think I could have be clearer.
            I was curious about the post. Personally I think curiosity is a good approach, trying to make sense of where others are coming from. Mickey has clarified it now, saying it was meant to be humorous.

            • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1.1.1.1

              The sad thing is that Micky thinks this is humorous.

              A topic fit for laughs.

              Questions of war and peace, the right to protest, public health and pandemic response are not joking matters

              But hey all politics is pressure.

              I can only guess at the reasons for Micky making this qualification, which undermines his own post.

              The jokes on me for taking him seriously.

            • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1.1.1.2

              "I was curious about the post. Personally I think curiosity is a good approach, trying to make sense of where others are coming from. Mickey has clarified it now, saying it was meant to be humorous." Anker

              Doubling down on the post-curious approach, but not being clear about what concerns you about it?

              Don't worry Mickysavage has placated your concerns. It was meant to be humorous, just a big joke, Ha Ha, we can all laugh it off. The protesters in Russia are anti-Putin pawns of the West being treated with kid gloves by their kindly leader who is busy saving lives in the Ukraine. The protesters in Wellington are heroes protesting a tyrant, being terribly abused and oppressed by the police on the orders of the evil dictator, who is busy trying to murder New Zealanders with poisonous injections. [sarc.]

              "I sincerely do believe in free speech.
              and I think my opening remark was “I don’t object to the post” I do not think I could have be clearer…."
              Bu-u-ut…..

              Thank you for all your examples kindly showing me contexts where ‘But’ is not bullshit. But In this context. Everything before ‘But’ IS bullshit.

              Personally i think Mickysavage has made a mistake giving in to it.

        • felix 3.1.1.2

          To be fair though, Labour and National govts both have a long and proud history of treating maori protestors and activists with contempt.

    • Anker 3.2

      I curious about this post too.

      Does this now mean it is only o.k. to protest if you are protesting on behalf of others?

      Where does that leave workers who protest for themselves about their pay, etc?

      • left_forward 3.2.1

        These are questions you really ought to answer for yourself. But be careful of projection.. the OP didn't suggest these things at all.

      • mickysavage 3.2.2

        Long time protester speaking here. Protests are important and serve a vital function. I draw the line however at death threats, use of nooses as props, blocking major thoroughfares for weeks, Q anon adherents and Nazis all propped up by a significant income flow from an unknown source.

      • Jenny how to get there 3.2.3

        Seems we have a new category of commenter, 'The post curious'

        To timid to state their outright objection.

        "What's going on here?" Just Saying

        "I curious about this post too." Anker

        "Where does that leave workers who protest for themselves about their pay, etc?" Anker

        Workers who protest for higher pay and better conditions, and win, set a precedent which has a flow on effect to other workers and jobs.

        It’s called raising the bar.

        https://raisethebar.net.nz/

        Protesters protesting to lift covid mandates have a flow on effect in bad health outcomes and hospitalisations for other citizens.

        While the two methods might seem similar, the aims and outcomes are not comparable.

        • Anker 3.2.3.1

          Lol “to timid to state their outright objection”

          Jenny, if you are referring to me, nothing could be further than the truth.

          I won’t bore you with numerous examples from my personal life.
          but (and there’s that word again) on this site I have spoken up for gender critical (now also known as pro reality ) views. This I can promise you has not be easy. I have also spoken up on another blog site with gender critical views, got canceled and someone on the site accused me of hate speech. They latter deleted it because they likely realized under the current law it was quite defamatory.

          • Jenny how to get there 3.2.3.1.1

            Anker

            26 February 2022 at 5:16 pm

            Lol “to timid to state their outright objection”

            I was trying to being polite.

            Timid, or dishonest, I don't really care why you hide your objections to Mickey's post.

            Why don't you tell us.

            • Anker 3.2.3.1.1.1
              • Jenny, I have to say I think I have been completely clear.
              • I don’t object to the post.
              • I believe in free speech
              • I think the underlying message not so subtly made is Russian protesters good, parliament protesters bad.
                I am happy to flesh this last point out. I think the post was saying one group was all good, the other bad. I don’t think this all or nothing thinking is helpful about the folks at parliament. Often all ornothing thinking around a group means the group can be written off as having no merit, no value.imo it’s simplistic and unhelpful

              I really rather you stop the digs at me, eg implying my comment on free speech

              was bullshit, that somehow being curious was a new type of commentator who was too timid etc. ( but saying too timid was just being polite). Then I am timid or dishonest for hiding my objection to Mickeys post, even though I said I didn’t object to it. I don’t object to him putting his point of view across, but I do think it was unhelpful.
              jenny I don’t recall us interacting on the Standard much before. But I would appreciate it if you stopped the digs at me. Ta.

            • mickysavage 3.2.3.1.1.2

              Jenny I mean this in the most gentle way but protesting to lift mandates in the middle of a Covid wave is silly.

              This is not a freedom good restrictions bad argument. This is a if we loosen things up more people will die situation. It would be good to maintain current health measures for a couple of months to see how things are going and then review. The mandates will be loosened. I do not think that now is the time.

              • Jenny how to get there

                mickysavage

                26 February 2022 at 8:33 pm

                Jenny I mean this in the most gentle way but protesting to lift mandates in the middle of a Covid wave is silly….

                Micky, Forgive my but I am bemused by your comment. I have never argued to lift the mandates in the middle of the Covid wave.

                I think there are some seriously crossed wires here.

                Either you have misunderstood what I have been writing, or you have mistaken me for someone else.

                I have never supported these silly protests.and their crazy demands to lift the mandates.

                I have supported the government's science based approach to the pandemic the whole way. I have applauded and at times been amazed at the government's success in keeping our death rate and hospitalisations relatively low compared to other OECD countries.
                I have personal admiration of our Prime Minister as our country's leader during this crisis. In my opinion Jacinda Ardern is the best Prime Minister of my lifetime, (possibly matched by Norman Kirk).
                In my personal life, in my support of the government's science based approach, I fully comply with all the government's directions. I am double vaxxed and boosted and use the covid ap and show my vaccine pass where ever

                Where we may differ, Micky, is that I fully support the right to protest, but I strongly oppose all the illegally parked cars in the Wellington parliamentary precinct that are taking away people's freedom to go about their daily business.

                This is like no other protest I have ever attended, or even witnessed, even on TV from overseas.
                This is beyond silly.
                Towing away the protesters cars would be every other government's first move.

                I can not understand why all these illegally parked cars blocking Wellington streets have not been removed.

                There are lots of video of forklifts moving concrete blocks at this protest.

                Why isn't there video of forklifts removing vehicles and trucking them away?

                Like this?

    • left_forward 3.3

      What didn't you get?

      It is perfectly clear.

    • Just Saying 3.4

      The reason is that it feels like nothing more than jeering. And through reading MS over the years he seems to be an intelligent and compassionate man. But one who today, appeared to use the tragic situation in the Ukraine to just get the boot in. Without content of any kind.

      So it seems MS is really angry, and fine, but its not like that anger has previously been denied an outlet. Its not as if this says anything new. And the sad thing is that regardless of anyone's opinion on the mandate protest, MS cheapened the Ukraine situation in using it as a vehicle to attack the mandate protest, not in a personal comment but in a post on TS.

      And that says something. Opinions will differ on what that says, but to me, this post is sad.

      • left_forward 3.4.1

        The Wellington protesters have given us all every reason to mock them because their protest appears selfish and incoherent.

        The Russian protesters appear in sharp contrast.

        And it is indeed sad, but MS is doing us a service by pointing out the irony.

      • mickysavage 3.4.2

        Just saying

        The post is meant to be humorous.

        I am not angry at the Wellington protest, just bewildered. The sense that it is orchestrated from afar is very strong and any protest that has people thinking that they are suffering from Government mandated gamma ray poisoning while at the same time as they deny the existence of Covid is rather strange.

        • Just Saying 3.4.2.1

          Maybe that's the problem. The post doesn't read as bewilderment, so your feelings aren't matching your words. And using the unfolding Ukraine situation for 'humour', not novel, original humour that says something new, brings a fresh perspective, but mere jeering. Would that be some kind of improvement regarding a tragedy that is happening now?

          The only good news is our freedom to say what we wish. But it doesn't grant either of us freedom from hearing what others think of what we say. I'm guessing this is something we agree on.

        • Anker 3.4.2.2

          Hi Mickey, I find it bewildering too. Everyone who knows me in “the real world” knows I am staunchly pro vacation and take all possible measures to prevent the virus spreading. Two of the people I love the most will likely get very sick if they get the virus, despite being triple vaxed. So curtailing my activities is a small price to pay.
          I guess over the years I have known a few people with odd views on Western medicine. It’s never made sense to me and I have no time for them (there views that is). These people often have fixed rigid beliefs that are unshakable…….

      • Jenny how to get there 3.4.3

        Just Saying

        26 February 2022 at 10:04 am

        What's going on here?

        What is the reason for this post?

        I genuinely don't get it. This is a sad day, seeing this here.

        Reply

        Just Saying

        26 February 2022 at 11:36 am

        ……it feels like nothing more than jeering.

        Can't attack the message, attack the messenger.

        Just Saying, have you never heard the saying. “Attack the ball, not the man”?

        • Just Saying 3.4.3.1

          Yes I have, Shanreah.

          I wrote a comment using this very analogy very recently, and prior to your comment today.

          I expressed my honest opinion of the content of MS's post. I didn't attack his character, I didn't accuse him of being a Nazi, for example, and I didn't make any allusions as to why I believed he was posting as he was with words like 'deranged' or 'tin-foil hat', or 'far right.' I didn't suggest he believed other things, beyond what he had said, such as for example, that that people who believe as he does, believe that anti-mandate protestors are all going to die, and in doing so, use what he didn't actually say to cast him in a bad light. I didn't suggest he was a part of a simpleton hive-mind manipulated and funded by covert, and shady overseas interests, or suggest that he couldn't think for himself.

          Finally, I didn't say or imply that he was being paid to write for TS. I expressed my opinion of his words, the content of his post.

          Shanreagh, do you understand the concept of playing the ball and not the man?

          • Jenny how to get there 3.4.3.1.1

            Just Saying makes the longest dog whistle in the history of the The Standard.
            [sarc/humor]

            ….I didn't accuse him of being a Nazi, for example, and I didn't make any allusions as to why I believed he was posting as he was with words like 'deranged' or 'tin-foil hat', or 'far right.' I didn't suggest he believed other things, beyond what he had said, such as for example, that that people who believe as he does, believe that anti-mandate protestors are all going to die, and in doing so, use what he didn't actually say to cast him in a bad light. I didn't suggest he was a part of a simpleton hive-mind manipulated and funded by covert, and shady overseas interests, or suggest that he couldn't think for himself.

            Mate, I think you need to be applying for the New Zealand Sheep Dog Trials

            Finally, I didn't say or imply that he was being paid to write for TS.

            You just did!

            [Ok, Jenny, time to let it go now – Incognito]

            • Just Saying 3.4.3.1.1.1

              Sigh, no I didn't. It was a reference to a post by incognito this morning.

              A 'dog whistle' is a covert comment, one that only be detected by the person or group (or with a physical whistle, dog) it is directed at. I wasn't being subtle or covert, Jenny, how to get there, I was trying to be crystal clear in the examples I was using. I was explicitly and deliberately using examples of slurs that had been or were being directed at pro-protest commenters. I didn't imagine the fact would be unheard by anyone here, or even anyone who has been attending to the debate.

            • Incognito 3.4.3.1.1.2

              Mod note for you.

          • Shanreagh 3.4.3.1.2

            I may be going dotty but I don't think I have posted in this thread yet. So why am I getting the lecture about Mickey's posts and playing the ball not the man from Just Saying?

            But for what it is worth I have a view and that is that when one's country is involved, as opposed to a protest on or about an individual or group of individuals, a protest lifts itself to a higher level. When one is protesting against the warlike actions of one's own country, a country where freedom of speech as we have it not universal, it transcends, in my view, any protest that is going on here in NZ.

            So quite apart from MS' more light hearted comparisons the two are nothing alike in mana or content. The people in Russia protesting against the actions of their own country as it invades another, and presumably they are doing this while Russia is on a semi war footing, are taking a very real risk.

    • mauī 3.5

      Sad day indeed… you wonder what Michael Joseph Savage would think seeing New Zealand's downtrodden precariat being shat on from a great height by whatever it is that is now the left.

      • Jenny how to get there 3.5.1

        Michael Joseph Savage who brought in mandatory conscription to fight the nazi scourge, would have been very proud of this governments courageous science based approach to fighting the scourge of Covid-19

  4. Ad 4

    Mickey have they released the judgement from yesterday showing that the vaccine mandates were illegal for NZPolice and NZDF?

    The earlier Employment Court judgements related to border workers.

    Maybe, just maybe, those protesters have a point.

    • DukeEll 4.1

      No way. The clownvoy don’t have any legitimate point. If they did the, they would embarrass the government and show up the nastiness of its supporters. Can’t let that point be made now

    • ghostwhowalksnz 4.2

      The Judge has made an error of fact in the linking of Pfizer vaccine testing to foetal cell lines.

      Even the Vatican has issued a policy that supports that form of vaccine testing

      Im seeing an appeal happening soon and or a stay on his judgement.

      Im sure lawyers will also point out the decision only works for those who claimed a a particular religious reason for refusing vaccine.

    • Shanreagh 4.3

      Discussion including judgment here. On Protest 25/2/22

      8.1

      25 February 2022 at 2:49 pm

      My view from reading the judgment is that it does not legitimise the protest unless you are one of the 279 members of Police/Defence it applies to. Very specific fact situation relating to these workers and I doubt, though willing to be corrected, that is would apply to others.

    • mickysavage 4.4

      Hi Ad yep the judgment is at https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/cases/2022/2022-NZHC-291.pdf

      Contrary to some comments it is not a universal overturning of vaccine mandates, it is rather limited in its logic to the situation before it and the police still have means to enforce a mandate.

      It does recognise that mandates will have an end point. I am sure we all agree on that.

      • tsmithfield 4.4.1

        But there are implications from this decision that businesses need to consider:

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127893208/what-does-vaccine-mandate-decision-mean-for-businesses

        "But Duncan Cotterill partner and employment lawyer Olivia Lund​ said while the High Court decision was limited in its direct application, there were several parts applicable to private business.

        “The decision essentially upholds the freedom of religious beliefs and people’s right to uphold that. So if you have had an employee objecting to a vaccine mandate on those grounds, we now have a case that shows that is a valid objection to vaccine mandates,” Lund​ said.

        Employers would need to properly consider religious beliefs and what reasonable accommodations can be made to employees objecting to vaccine mandates on those grounds, she said.

        The second aspect of the decision for private employers was that the High Court accepted evidence that the effectiveness of the vaccine was reduced when facing Omicron, she said.

        “The acceptance that the vaccine is less effective against Omicron may call into question some decisions that employers had made, if they had undertaken a health and safety risk based on the vaccine stopping transmission.”"

        Personally, I support the protests to the extent that I think mandates are no longer effective or necessary, in that they don't do much to prevent transmission, and they are no longer needed in terms of encouraging vaccination since we are now highly vaccinated.

        • Shanreagh 4.4.1.1

          Personally, I support the protests to the extent that I think mandates are no longer effective or necessary, in that they don't do much to prevent transmission, and they are no longer needed in terms of encouraging vaccination since we are now highly vaccinated.

          I think we need to be a bit more nuanced than this though. Lifting health protections when we have not even at the peak of our omicron surge is premature. PM has been at pains to say (the latest time this morning ) that they will be lifted when they are not needed. To lift them now so we have maskless and unvaccinated people roaming around is probably not a sensible move. The peak is forecast to be mid March/end March.

          What exactly is the problem with waiting a month or so?

          We are still trying to support our local businesses, mainly hospo or food. We'll just give this up altogether if masking or vaccination policies are not kept up until we are through the surge.

          We had our first personal instance of unpleasant maskless and unvaxxed people trying to get food at a cafe (seating and food to takeaway) yesterday in Otaki. Owner had a physically distanced line where we were invited to step forward one by one to the counter to choose and pay after showing our vax cards. Unvaxxed were catered for by a window out onto the road. They were not to come inside.

          A chin mask wearing person crowded in front of me, ignored the call to show the pass and walked right up to the counter. Escorted out to the window where they made a choice and had the eftpos machine passed out. He joined another totally unmasked person there and it was clear from the convo that this was a bit of a game, this harassment of shop assistants. They were both old enough to know better being in their 40-50s by the looks.

          An acquaintance who runs a takeaway bakery on the main road on Otaki shared her experiences when I was there last week. There the unmasked just glare through the windows at her. She says they seemed to object to her wearing a mask as well as the request that they be masked. Seems totally illogical to me.

          This is the second day in a row she has not been there. Level of horrible seems pretty high.

      • Shanreagh 4.4.2

        Thank you MS. I have been trying to make that point as well.

        I found the reasoning on the religious side a bit odd. Seems he was influenced by some of the CTs around about how the vaccine is made.

      • Ad 4.4.3

        The judge is saying firstly that Minister Wood was making poor orders on bad advice, and the Order had to be corrected. This is on an Order that came into effect just 2 months ago.

        The judge also says he's the guy with the main precedent decisions in this field so take notice.

        Then he says that the force of the Minister's Order was out of whack to the marginal difference it made over the vaccine policies already in place at NZPolice and NZDF.

        So on two counts the Minister had got his BORA balance wrong.

        I'm glad that a judge is getting on to this.

        But he also makes a really interesting point at the beginning: that vaccine mandates were OK last year because they demonstrably held a wave of COVID back.

        But now that COVID is utterly out of control, that question is completely open again.

        I hope NZDF and NZPolice take this to Appeal, and that the HRC support the people affected.

        Hopefully more such cases get up there. we need a Supreme Court case on this fast.

        This is showing all the hallmarks of government taking rights off us when there was a useful effect, then forgetting when to give them back.

        • McFlock 4.4.3.1

          If it was a drafting issue or whatever, I'm happy with the concept that employers need to be able to write and implement policies correctly or the court rips them up.

          So while it can go all through the courts or even back to the legislature, the ideal outcome would be for the minister or whomever to review the judgement and issue a new directive that has the same outcome but explicitly (and truthfully) complies with the law.

        • ghostwhowalksnz 4.4.3.2

          'vaccine mandates were OK last year because they demonstrably held a wave of COVID back.'

          NO

          That was soley due to the border and lockdowns within NZ, allied with low case numbers which meant contact tracing worked

          We havent re-indroduced lockdowns BECAUSE we have high vaccination numbers , with mandates being a part of that

  5. Peter 5

    Let's see, the difference between the Wellington Protests and Russia?

    Ardern could come out on Monday and say there'll be no mandates anywhere about jabs or masks or numbers at events, the world is open people have the freedom they said drove them as the most important thing in the world.

    She could then say there's a ship leaving to take 5,000 to Ukraine to fight for precious Freedom. Be on the wharf next Sunday morning and the Ship of Freedom will sail. The streets of Wellington would be clogged with the thousands clambering over each other to be in the mode of their great-grand parents going away to fight for the most precious thing in the world.

    That it? No fucken way, they'll all be at home on Facebook talking about how brave they were, watching Married at First Sight on TV that they'd had to miss for a couple of weeks and toddling down to their local cafe to bask in the glory of the great warriors they saw themselves as.

  6. Ad 6

    A key similarity is that both the left and Putin are using claims that the whole thing being run by NAZIs as a pretext for taking any action they like.

  7. adam 7

    I know your using irony Mickey, but on a serious note.

    The Russian Anarchist peace protestors from the Crimea annexation in 2014 are still in jail awaiting trial. One of the arrested been granted conjugal rights. As he was married before the arrest, but that has been taken away again with the invasion, as his wife has now been arrested. Not 100% sure when she was locked up, but it does look like it was just before the invasion.

    • mickysavage 7.1

      I have caused a considerable number of adverse responses to this post. I agree the Ukraine situation is deadly serious and in using the phrase "humour" did not intend to suggest that the situation was even slightly humourous.

      I am still perplexed by the Wellington protest. My emotions go through the spectrum of hatred for the far right, contempt for the organisers and their cash flow, pity and concern for some of the participants but when they start talking about Qanon and wear tinfoil hats then I know something is really wrong. That protest has the possibility of spiraling out of control really quickly. The state response has been weak and too many threats have been made against people I have a lot of respect for.

      Clearly some think it was in bad taste. Humour is the device I use to handle really difficult circumstances.

      • McFlock 7.1.1

        Same reflex often gets me in trouble – and ruins the occasional date lol

        I thought it was a pretty good juxtaposition: people protesting in Russia are facing down the stuff that the tinfoil hat crowd in Wellington are leveraging for their own cause.

      • Anker 7.1.2

        I didn't think it was bad taste. But people vary in what is o.k. for them. I hope you are able to see this for what it is. We all need to take responsibility for our own feelings. I hope this doesn't cause bad feelings for you. You strike me as the sort of person who tries to do the right thing.

        I see the whole protest thing from so many perspectives, I really do. And I feel incredibly sorry for amongst others, the police. Those guys on the front line facing the anti social behaviour and I suspect there are a number of people there who are anti social in the true (psychiatric) sense of the word.

        My most comforting thought is that this will end. It must do. People are getting sick, and the mandates will end.

        This is a really difficult time for our country. Probably the worse time since the Spring Box tour………..maybe worse. At least we had the end date for the tour.

        • Obtrectator 7.1.2.1

          "At least we had the end date for the tour."

          But not for its after-effects, which persisted till at least July 1984.

  8. peter sim 8

    Adults behaving like 3 year olds is dismaying. I blame the education system. SARC.

    No wonder d seymour courted them.

  9. Pierre 9

    No Nazis spotted at the anti-war rallies in Russia, but Banderites are popping up at the "Ukraine Solidarity" demos everywhere else. Keep an eye out for the Blood and Soil flags.

  10. georgecom 11

    2 main differences stand out for me.

    NZ is being invaded by a virus, Ukraine is been invaded by a powerful neighbour

    Once Omicron is gone those at camp covid will still be NZ citizens, who knows what awaits Ukranians

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Supporting local government candidates
    A significant barrier has been removed for people who want to stand in local government elections, with a change to the requirement to publish personal details in election advertising. The Associate Local Government Minister Kieran McAnulty has taken the Local Electoral (Advertising) Amendment Bill through its final stages in Parliament ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Govt passes law to protect consumers in banking and insurance sector
    New financial conduct scheme will ensure customers are treated fairly Banks, insurers and non-bank deposit takers to be licensed by the FMA in relation to their general conduct Sales incentives based on volume or value targets like bonuses for selling a certain number of financial products banned The Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • New law paves way for greater supermarket competition
    Legislation that bans major supermarkets from blocking their competitors’ access to land to set up new stores paves the way for greater competition in the sector, Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs Dr David Clark said. The new law is the first in a suite of measures the Government is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Vaccine mandate for border and corrections workers to end
    The Government has announced an end to the requirement for border workers and corrections staff to be fully vaccinated. This will come into place from 2 July 2022. 100 per cent of corrections staff in prisons, and as of 23 June 2022 97 per cent of active border workers were ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Emergency monitoring centre opened to keep New Zealand safer
    Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty officially launched the new Monitoring, Alerting and Reporting (MAR) Centre at the National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) today. The Government has stood up the centre in response to recommendations from the 2018 Ministerial Review following the 2016 Kaikoura earthquake and 2017 Port Hills fire, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Waikato Expressway speed limit to change to 110km/h
    Transport Minister Michael Wood has welcomed the announcement that a 110km/hr speed limit has been set for the SH1 Waikato Expressway, between Hampton Downs and Tamahere. “The Waikato Expressway is a key transport route for the Waikato region, connecting Auckland to the agricultural and business centres of the central North ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Government listening to sector on NCEA
    Following feedback from the sector, Associate Minister of Education Jan Tinetti, today confirmed that new literacy and numeracy | te reo matatini me te pāngarau standards will be aligned with wider NCEA changes. “The education sector has asked for more time to put the literacy and numeracy | te reo ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Further Aotearoa New Zealand support for Ukraine
    $4.5 million to provide Ukraine with additional non-lethal equipment and supplies such as medical kit for the Ukrainian Army Deployments extended for New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) intelligence, logistics and liaison officers in the UK, Germany, and Belgium Secondment of a senior New Zealand military officer to support International ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Electoral changes will bring greater transparency for voters
    Changes to electoral law announced by Justice Minister Kiri Allan today aim to support participation in parliamentary elections, and improve public trust and confidence in New Zealand’s electoral system. The changes are targeted at increasing transparency around political donations and loans and include requiring the disclosure of: donor identities for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government invests to minimise gambling harm
    The Labour government has announced a significant investment to prevent and minimise harm caused by gambling. “Gambling harm is a serious public health issue and can have a devastating effect on the wellbeing of individuals, whānau and communities. One in five New Zealanders will experience gambling harm in their lives, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More free flu vaccines and a second COVID-19 booster to groups at risk of hospitalisation
    The Government has widened access to free flu vaccines with an extra 800,000 New Zealanders eligible from this Friday, July 1  Children aged 3-12 years and people with serious mental health or addiction needs now eligible for free flu dose. From tomorrow (Tuesday), second COVID-19 booster available six months ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government backs action to drive strong wool growth
    The Government is investing to create new product categories and new international markets for our strong wool and is calling on Kiwi businesses and consumers to get behind the environmentally friendly fibre, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor said today. Wool Impact is a collaboration between the Government and sheep sector partners ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Veterans Minister pays tribute to service and sacrifice at Korean War commemoration
    At today’s commemoration of the start of the Korean War, Veterans Minister Meka Whaitiri has paid tribute to the service and sacrifice of our New Zealand veterans, their families and both nations. “It’s an honour to be with our Korean War veterans at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park to commemorate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Matariki projects star in latest round of Tourism Infrastructure Fund
    Minister of Tourism Stuart Nash and Associate Minister of Tourism Peeni Henare announced the sixth round of recipients of the Government’s Tourism Infrastructure Fund (TIF), which supports local government to address tourism infrastructure needs. This TIF round will invest $15 million into projects around the country. For the first time, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s Matariki speech 2022
    Matariki tohu mate, rātou ki a rātou Matariki tohu ora, tātou ki a tātou Tīhei Matariki Matariki – remembering those who have passed Matariki – celebrating the present and future Salutations to Matariki   I want to begin by thanking everyone who is here today, and in particular the Matariki ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • First Matariki holiday marked across New Zealand and the world
    Oho mai ana te motu i te rangi nei ki te hararei tūmatanui motuhake tuatahi o Aotearoa, Te Rā Aro ki a Matariki, me te hono atu a te Pirīmia a Jacinda Ardern ki ngā mahi whakanui a te motu i tētahi huihuinga mō te Hautapu i te ata nei.    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister to attend second United Nations Ocean Conference in Portugal
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister David Parker will represent Aotearoa New Zealand at the second United Nations (UN) Ocean Conference in Lisbon, Portugal, which runs from 27 June to 1 July. The Conference will take stock of progress and aims to galvanise further action towards Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) 14, to "conserve and sustainably use ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government supports innovative dairy sheep sector to scale up
    The Government is boosting its partnership with New Zealand’s dairy sheep sector to help it lift its value and volume, and become an established primary industry, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has announced. “Globally, the premium alternative dairy category is growing by about 20 percent a year. With New Zealand food ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government supports Buller flood recovery and longer term resilience
    The Government is continuing to support the Buller district to recover from severe flooding over the past year, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced today during a visit with the local leadership. An extra $10 million has been announced to fund an infrastructure recovery programme, bringing the total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government outlines plans for future COVID-19 variants
    “The Government has undertaken preparatory work to combat new and more dangerous variants of COVID-19,” COVID-19 Response Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall set out today. “This is about being ready to adapt our response, especially knowing that new variants will likely continue to appear. “We have undertaken a piece of work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Next steps for NZ UK free trade agreement
    The Government’s strong trade agenda is underscored today with the introduction of the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill to the House, Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. “I’m very pleased with the quick progress of the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill being introduced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Five new members join education Youth Advisory Group
    A ministerial advisory group that provides young people with an opportunity to help shape the education system has five new members, Minister of Education Chris Hipkins said today. “I am delighted to announce that Harshinni Nayyar, Te Atamihi Papa, Humaira Khan, Eniselini Ali and Malakai Tahaafe will join the seven ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Address to the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons First Meeting of States Party
    Austria Centre, Vienna   [CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY] E ngā mana, e ngā reo Tēnā koutou katoa Thank you, Mr President. I extend my warm congratulations to you on the assumption of the Presidency of this inaugural meeting of States Parties to the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. You ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt makes sure support workers have right to take pay-equity claim
    The Government is taking action to make sure homecare and support workers have the right to take a pay-equity claim, while at the same time protecting their current working conditions and delivering a pay rise. “In 2016, homecare and support workers – who look after people in their own homes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Targeted second COVID-19 booster a step closer
    A law change passed today streamlines the process for allowing COVID-19 boosters to be given without requiring a prescription. Health Minister Andrew Little said the changes made to the Medicines Act were a more enduring way to manage the administration of vaccine boosters from now on. “The Ministry of Health’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Commerce Commission empowered to crackdown on covenants
    New powers will be given to the Commerce Commission allowing it to require supermarkets to hand over information regarding contracts, arrangements and land covenants which make it difficult for competing retailers to set up shop. “The Government and New Zealanders have been very clear that the grocery sector is not ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Plasterboard taskforce set up to ease shortages
    Ministerial taskforce of industry experts will give advice and troubleshoot plasterboard shortages Letter of expectation sent to Fletcher Building on trademark protections A renewed focus on competition in the construction sector The Minister for Building and Construction Megan Woods has set up a Ministerial taskforce with key construction, building ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • First Matariki public holiday celebrated with a unique broadcasting collaboration
    Minister for Māori Development Willie Jackson and Minister for Māori Crown Relations Te Arawhiti Kelvin Davis announced today the inaugural Matariki public holiday will be marked by a pre-dawn hautapu ceremony at Te Papa Tongarewa, and will be a part of a five-hour broadcast carried by all major broadcasters in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Health volunteers recognised at Parliament
    Volunteers from all over the country are being recognised in this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards, just announced at an event in Parliament’s Grand Hall. “These awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health and disability sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trade Minister to travel to Europe, Canada and Australia to advance economic recovery
    New Zealand’s trade agenda continues to build positive momentum as Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor travels to Europe, Canada and Australia to advance New Zealand’s economic interests. “Our trade agenda has excellent momentum, and is a key part of the Government’s wider plan to help provide economic security for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister to travel to Europe and Australia
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will leave this weekend to travel to Europe and Australia for a range of trade, tourism and foreign policy events. “This is the third leg of our reconnecting plan as we continue to promote Aotearoa New Zealand’s trade and tourism interests. We’re letting the world know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Remarks to ICAN Nuclear Ban Forum session “The Ban is the Plan and this is Why”
    [CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY] Nga mihi ki a koutou. Let me start by acknowledging the nuclear survivors, the people who lost their lives to nuclear war or testing, and all the peoples driven off their lands by nuclear testing, whose lands and waters were poisoned, and who suffer the inter-generational health ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand leadership contributes to significant progress at the WTO
    New Zealand’s leadership has contributed to a number of significant outcomes and progress at the Twelfth Ministerial Conference (MC12) of the World Trade Organization (WTO), which concluded in the early hours of Friday morning after a week of intense negotiations between its 164 members. A major outcome is a new ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Meth addiction service launched in Eastern Bay of Plenty
    The Government has delivered on its commitment to roll out the free methamphetamine harm reduction programme Te Ara Oranga to the eastern Bay of Plenty, with services now available in Murupara. “We’re building a whole new mental health system, and that includes expanding successful programmes like Te Ara Oranga,” Health ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Creatives in Schools Round 4 open for applications
    Kura and schools around New Zealand can start applying for Round 4 of the Creatives in Schools programme, Minister for Education Chris Hipkins and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Carmel Sepuloni said today. Both ministers were at Auckland’s Rosehill Intermediate to meet with the ākonga, teachers and the professional ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Opening speech for MEETINGS 2022
    It is my pleasure to be here at MEETINGS 2022. I want to start by thanking Lisa and Steve from Business Events Industry Aotearoa and everyone that has been involved in organising and hosting this event. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to welcome you all here. It is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Reconnecting across the Tasman: Australia – Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations
    Aotearoa New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon Nanaia Mahuta and Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator the Hon Penny Wong, met in Wellington today for the biannual Australia - Aotearoa New Zealand Foreign Minister Consultations. Minister Mahuta welcomed Minister Wong for her first official visit to Aotearoa New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Global challenges reflected in March quarter GDP
    The volatile global situation has been reflected in today’s quarterly GDP figures, although strong annual growth shows New Zealand is still well positioned to deal with the challenging global environment, Grant Robertson said. GDP fell 0.2 percent in the March quarter, as the global economic trends caused exports to fall ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • One million New Zealanders vaccinated against flu
    More than a million New Zealanders have already received their flu vaccine in time for  winter, but we need lots more to get vaccinated to help relieve pressure on the health system, Health Minister Andrew Little says. “Getting to one million doses by June is a significant milestone and sits ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • NZ Principals Federation MOOT SPEECH -Friday 10 June 2022 
    It’s a pleasure to be here today in person “ka nohi ke te ka nohi, face to face as we look back on a very challenging two years when you as Principals, as leaders in education, have pivoted, and done what you needed to do, under challenging circumstances for your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago