The difference between the Wellington protests and the pro Ukraine protests in Russia

Written By: - Date published: 7:59 am, February 26th, 2022 - 76 comments
Categories: covid-19, human rights, Russia - Tags:

Currently in this world there are two significant protests occurring, both similar but at the same time completely different.

In Wellington the Clownvoy protesters:

  • Think they live in a despotic nation
  • Are treated really well by police
  • Think they are protesting in support of freedom
  • Insist in being able to park outside the protest even though this blocks up a major Wellington thoroughfare
  • Think that any police action taken is an attack on their freedoms
  • Walk around abusing locals, students, shop workers …
  • Are indirectly receiving support from Putin
  • Are infiltrated and supported by Nazis
  • Use children as shields
  • Have been accused of but deny flinging poop
  • Are really upset at the thought they may be arrested
  • Some of them may be wearing tinfoil hats

In Russia the pro Ukraine protesters:

  • Know they are living in a despotic nation
  • Are arrested instantly by police when they protest
  • Are protesting in support of fellow human beings living in a neighbouring country
  • Do not insist on parking directly outside where they are protesting
  • Know that the police will arrest them but are prepared to take a stand for their fellow human beings
  • Do not abuse anyone
  • Have received no support from Putin
  • No Nazis to be seen anywhere
  • No children have been involved in their protests
  • No poop has been flung
  • None of them are wearing tinfoil hats.

76 comments on “The difference between the Wellington protests and the pro Ukraine protests in Russia ”

  1. Jenny how to get there 1

    The main difference is selfish vs. selfless

    The Russians being attacked by the Russian authorities for protesting, are acting selflessly to help people they don't even know who speak a different language in another country.

    The New Zealanders not being attacked by the New Zealand authorities for protesting, are acting selfishly to harm people they don't even know who speak the same language in the same country.

    …..We try to work out whether, on balance, we should send our kids to school. Into the line of fire of Covid, maybe.

    …..one of our kids has underlying conditions that mean he may be hit substantially harder than other kids his age.

    ….One of the things that is making our decision easier are the vaccine mandates. We know that all the adults our kids come into contact with are, at least, double vaccinated. Most are boosted as well. The mandates have extracted those who refused.

    Those protesting for the mandates to be removed are actively endangering my child’s life, and all of those kids who also have underlying conditions that make them more vulnerable. They are also endangering all those patients in the health sector who are more vulnerable….

    The mental dilemma of the anti-mandate brigade

    Andrew Dickson17:00, Feb 25 2022

    • mikesh 1.1

      The Russians being attacked by the Russian authorities for protesting, are acting selflessly to help people they don't even know who speak a different language in another country.

      Or perhaps they are Navalny supporters who don't like Putin very much; using the invasion as pretext for kicking up a stink. Or am I just being cynical.

      • Jenny how to get there 1.1.1

        The Russian Peace protesters are undeniably being treated very harshly by the Russian authorities compared to our so called 'Freedom" protesters.

        If I was you mikesh, I would answer your last query "…am I just being cynical."

        With a, "Yes"

        The first victim of war is truth.

        The second victim is civilians.

        ….three civilians had been killed in the eastern port city and six others injured in Russia’s invasion.

        Emergency services said a boy was killed in eastern Ukraine’s Kharkiv region after shelling struck an apartment building..

        …..a military plane with 14 people on board crashed south of Kyiv with officials still determining how many people died, while a transport plane crashed in Russia killing the crew.
        Russia denied reports its aircraft or armoured vehicles had been destroyed. Russian-backed separatists claimed to have downed two Ukrainian planes.

        Al Jazeera was unable to independently verify the casualty figures.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-casualties-death-toll

      • North 1.1.2

        Yes, cynical indeed. The lot of the pro-Ukraine protesters is seen in the bullet points. The Clownvoy likes to think it suffers; that too is seen in the bullet points.

      • CrimzonGhost 1.1.3

        Navalny supporters not the only political opposition to Putin. One thing in common between protests is many factions. Russian Neo Nazis love Putin.

  2. Reality 2

    A letter to the Dom Post today suggests if the 'Camp Covid' protesters/idle and disorderly unhygienic layabouts/seriously disturbed, nazi sympathisers and any other categories, are so concerned about freedom they head or drive off, to the Russian Embassy in Karori.

  3. Just Saying 3

    What's going on here?

    What is the reason for this post?

    I genuinely don't get it. This is a sad day, seeing this here.

    • Jenny how to get there 3.1

      Just Saying, what is reason for your objection to this post?

      Just asking.

      • Anker 3.1.1

        Just putting my twopence in here Jenny. I can't answer for Just saying of course.

        I don't object to the post. I am a beliver in free speech. But it seems like the posts underlying message, not so subtley made, is protesters in Russia good. Protesters in parliament bad.

        There are undoubtedly some peaceful protesters at parliament. Probably the majority. Almost 30% of them labour voters, 15% of them Green. That is nearly half of them at the time of the Curia survey.

        I have no doubt at all there are some very anti social types there and the alt right is involved too.

        I think we run into some very tricky territory if we start saying one group of protesters are good, one are bad.

        IMO the Govt has treated these people with contempt. Given 30% of them are Maori, I think the suggestion that the Maori caucus or representatives of this should have gone and talked to them. They are afterall citizens, even if some of us, myself included, have no time for their views.

        With the court judgemenat and the Govt rolling back on unvaccinated kids playing sport and the possibility that vaccine passports will no longer be required, it seems like the protesters did have some points.

        On the other hand without realizing it these protestors have been running their own scientific experiement. What happens when you get a group of people 70% unvaxed living in close quarters, when you have omicron presenting in the camp? Do tin foil hats work? (Of course they don't, but there is nothing like experiencial learning. Often it is better to let people find out for themselves rather than trying to change peoples minds. That doesn't mean I don't think the protesters should have been moved on.

        • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1.1

          Hi Anker, have you never heard the saying, "Everything before 'But' is bullshit"?

          "I am a beliver in free speech. But it seems like the posts underlying message, not so subtley made, is protesters in Russia good. Protesters in parliament bad". Anker

          You're right it is not subtly made, that is exactly what the message is. You obviously don't agree with it.

          The Peace protesters in Russia are bravely protesting in a totalitarian state where protesters can receive long sentences in prison under harsh conditions.

          Pussy Riot sentenced to two years in prison colony over anti-Putin protest

          The Freedom protesters in Wellington are protesting in a democracy with a centre-left government, where they will not be jailed for protesting, at worst they could face charges for trespass and illegal parking, which might attract fines. The also might face charges for throwing exrement and charging police lines in a car. Even then they wouldn't be facing two years in a prison colony.

          You say you support free speech, but you oppose the appearance of this post?

          Can’t you see the contradiction?

          Unfortunately for you, (and fortunately for our democracy), you are not in a position to censor it.

          • Anker 3.1.1.1.1

            Hi Jenny, I don’t agree “everything before but is bullshit”

            For example if someone said “I support labour, but I don’t like their housing policy “

            or “I agree with protesting, but I don’t like the way these protesters are conducting themselves “

            btw these are just examples, I am not attributing them to anyone.

            I sincerely do believe in free speech.
            and I think my opening remark was “I don’t object to the post” I do not think I could have be clearer.
            I was curious about the post. Personally I think curiosity is a good approach, trying to make sense of where others are coming from. Mickey has clarified it now, saying it was meant to be humorous.

            • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1.1.1.1

              The sad thing is that Micky thinks this is humorous.

              A topic fit for laughs.

              Questions of war and peace, the right to protest, public health and pandemic response are not joking matters

              But hey all politics is pressure.

              I can only guess at the reasons for Micky making this qualification, which undermines his own post.

              The jokes on me for taking him seriously.

            • Jenny how to get there 3.1.1.1.1.2

              "I was curious about the post. Personally I think curiosity is a good approach, trying to make sense of where others are coming from. Mickey has clarified it now, saying it was meant to be humorous." Anker

              Doubling down on the post-curious approach, but not being clear about what concerns you about it?

              Don't worry Mickysavage has placated your concerns. It was meant to be humorous, just a big joke, Ha Ha, we can all laugh it off. The protesters in Russia are anti-Putin pawns of the West being treated with kid gloves by their kindly leader who is busy saving lives in the Ukraine. The protesters in Wellington are heroes protesting a tyrant, being terribly abused and oppressed by the police on the orders of the evil dictator, who is busy trying to murder New Zealanders with poisonous injections. [sarc.]

              "I sincerely do believe in free speech.
              and I think my opening remark was “I don’t object to the post” I do not think I could have be clearer…."
              Bu-u-ut…..

              Thank you for all your examples kindly showing me contexts where ‘But’ is not bullshit. But In this context. Everything before ‘But’ IS bullshit.

              Personally i think Mickysavage has made a mistake giving in to it.

        • felix 3.1.1.2

          To be fair though, Labour and National govts both have a long and proud history of treating maori protestors and activists with contempt.

    • Anker 3.2

      I curious about this post too.

      Does this now mean it is only o.k. to protest if you are protesting on behalf of others?

      Where does that leave workers who protest for themselves about their pay, etc?

      • left_forward 3.2.1

        These are questions you really ought to answer for yourself. But be careful of projection.. the OP didn't suggest these things at all.

      • mickysavage 3.2.2

        Long time protester speaking here. Protests are important and serve a vital function. I draw the line however at death threats, use of nooses as props, blocking major thoroughfares for weeks, Q anon adherents and Nazis all propped up by a significant income flow from an unknown source.

      • Jenny how to get there 3.2.3

        Seems we have a new category of commenter, 'The post curious'

        To timid to state their outright objection.

        "What's going on here?" Just Saying

        "I curious about this post too." Anker

        "Where does that leave workers who protest for themselves about their pay, etc?" Anker

        Workers who protest for higher pay and better conditions, and win, set a precedent which has a flow on effect to other workers and jobs.

        It’s called raising the bar.

        https://raisethebar.net.nz/

        Protesters protesting to lift covid mandates have a flow on effect in bad health outcomes and hospitalisations for other citizens.

        While the two methods might seem similar, the aims and outcomes are not comparable.

        • Anker 3.2.3.1

          Lol “to timid to state their outright objection”

          Jenny, if you are referring to me, nothing could be further than the truth.

          I won’t bore you with numerous examples from my personal life.
          but (and there’s that word again) on this site I have spoken up for gender critical (now also known as pro reality ) views. This I can promise you has not be easy. I have also spoken up on another blog site with gender critical views, got canceled and someone on the site accused me of hate speech. They latter deleted it because they likely realized under the current law it was quite defamatory.

          • Jenny how to get there 3.2.3.1.1

            Anker

            26 February 2022 at 5:16 pm

            Lol “to timid to state their outright objection”

            I was trying to being polite.

            Timid, or dishonest, I don't really care why you hide your objections to Mickey's post.

            Why don't you tell us.

            • Anker 3.2.3.1.1.1
              • Jenny, I have to say I think I have been completely clear.
              • I don’t object to the post.
              • I believe in free speech
              • I think the underlying message not so subtly made is Russian protesters good, parliament protesters bad.
                I am happy to flesh this last point out. I think the post was saying one group was all good, the other bad. I don’t think this all or nothing thinking is helpful about the folks at parliament. Often all ornothing thinking around a group means the group can be written off as having no merit, no value.imo it’s simplistic and unhelpful

              I really rather you stop the digs at me, eg implying my comment on free speech

              was bullshit, that somehow being curious was a new type of commentator who was too timid etc. ( but saying too timid was just being polite). Then I am timid or dishonest for hiding my objection to Mickeys post, even though I said I didn’t object to it. I don’t object to him putting his point of view across, but I do think it was unhelpful.
              jenny I don’t recall us interacting on the Standard much before. But I would appreciate it if you stopped the digs at me. Ta.

            • mickysavage 3.2.3.1.1.2

              Jenny I mean this in the most gentle way but protesting to lift mandates in the middle of a Covid wave is silly.

              This is not a freedom good restrictions bad argument. This is a if we loosen things up more people will die situation. It would be good to maintain current health measures for a couple of months to see how things are going and then review. The mandates will be loosened. I do not think that now is the time.

              • Jenny how to get there

                mickysavage

                26 February 2022 at 8:33 pm

                Jenny I mean this in the most gentle way but protesting to lift mandates in the middle of a Covid wave is silly….

                Micky, Forgive my but I am bemused by your comment. I have never argued to lift the mandates in the middle of the Covid wave.

                I think there are some seriously crossed wires here.

                Either you have misunderstood what I have been writing, or you have mistaken me for someone else.

                I have never supported these silly protests.and their crazy demands to lift the mandates.

                I have supported the government's science based approach to the pandemic the whole way. I have applauded and at times been amazed at the government's success in keeping our death rate and hospitalisations relatively low compared to other OECD countries.
                I have personal admiration of our Prime Minister as our country's leader during this crisis. In my opinion Jacinda Ardern is the best Prime Minister of my lifetime, (possibly matched by Norman Kirk).
                In my personal life, in my support of the government's science based approach, I fully comply with all the government's directions. I am double vaxxed and boosted and use the covid ap and show my vaccine pass where ever

                Where we may differ, Micky, is that I fully support the right to protest, but I strongly oppose all the illegally parked cars in the Wellington parliamentary precinct that are taking away people's freedom to go about their daily business.

                This is like no other protest I have ever attended, or even witnessed, even on TV from overseas.
                This is beyond silly.
                Towing away the protesters cars would be every other government's first move.

                I can not understand why all these illegally parked cars blocking Wellington streets have not been removed.

                There are lots of video of forklifts moving concrete blocks at this protest.

                Why isn't there video of forklifts removing vehicles and trucking them away?

                Like this?

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV5XH_H9GAk&ab_channel=CHYKKO

    • left_forward 3.3

      What didn't you get?

      It is perfectly clear.

    • Just Saying 3.4

      The reason is that it feels like nothing more than jeering. And through reading MS over the years he seems to be an intelligent and compassionate man. But one who today, appeared to use the tragic situation in the Ukraine to just get the boot in. Without content of any kind.

      So it seems MS is really angry, and fine, but its not like that anger has previously been denied an outlet. Its not as if this says anything new. And the sad thing is that regardless of anyone's opinion on the mandate protest, MS cheapened the Ukraine situation in using it as a vehicle to attack the mandate protest, not in a personal comment but in a post on TS.

      And that says something. Opinions will differ on what that says, but to me, this post is sad.

      • left_forward 3.4.1

        The Wellington protesters have given us all every reason to mock them because their protest appears selfish and incoherent.

        The Russian protesters appear in sharp contrast.

        And it is indeed sad, but MS is doing us a service by pointing out the irony.

      • mickysavage 3.4.2

        Just saying

        The post is meant to be humorous.

        I am not angry at the Wellington protest, just bewildered. The sense that it is orchestrated from afar is very strong and any protest that has people thinking that they are suffering from Government mandated gamma ray poisoning while at the same time as they deny the existence of Covid is rather strange.

        • Just Saying 3.4.2.1

          Maybe that's the problem. The post doesn't read as bewilderment, so your feelings aren't matching your words. And using the unfolding Ukraine situation for 'humour', not novel, original humour that says something new, brings a fresh perspective, but mere jeering. Would that be some kind of improvement regarding a tragedy that is happening now?

          The only good news is our freedom to say what we wish. But it doesn't grant either of us freedom from hearing what others think of what we say. I'm guessing this is something we agree on.

        • Anker 3.4.2.2

          Hi Mickey, I find it bewildering too. Everyone who knows me in “the real world” knows I am staunchly pro vacation and take all possible measures to prevent the virus spreading. Two of the people I love the most will likely get very sick if they get the virus, despite being triple vaxed. So curtailing my activities is a small price to pay.
          I guess over the years I have known a few people with odd views on Western medicine. It’s never made sense to me and I have no time for them (there views that is). These people often have fixed rigid beliefs that are unshakable…….

      • Jenny how to get there 3.4.3

        Just Saying

        26 February 2022 at 10:04 am

        What's going on here?

        What is the reason for this post?

        I genuinely don't get it. This is a sad day, seeing this here.

        Reply

        Just Saying

        26 February 2022 at 11:36 am

        ……it feels like nothing more than jeering.

        Can't attack the message, attack the messenger.

        Just Saying, have you never heard the saying. “Attack the ball, not the man”?

        • Just Saying 3.4.3.1

          Yes I have, Shanreah.

          I wrote a comment using this very analogy very recently, and prior to your comment today.

          I expressed my honest opinion of the content of MS's post. I didn't attack his character, I didn't accuse him of being a Nazi, for example, and I didn't make any allusions as to why I believed he was posting as he was with words like 'deranged' or 'tin-foil hat', or 'far right.' I didn't suggest he believed other things, beyond what he had said, such as for example, that that people who believe as he does, believe that anti-mandate protestors are all going to die, and in doing so, use what he didn't actually say to cast him in a bad light. I didn't suggest he was a part of a simpleton hive-mind manipulated and funded by covert, and shady overseas interests, or suggest that he couldn't think for himself.

          Finally, I didn't say or imply that he was being paid to write for TS. I expressed my opinion of his words, the content of his post.

          Shanreagh, do you understand the concept of playing the ball and not the man?

          • Jenny how to get there 3.4.3.1.1

            Just Saying makes the longest dog whistle in the history of the The Standard.
            [sarc/humor]

            ….I didn't accuse him of being a Nazi, for example, and I didn't make any allusions as to why I believed he was posting as he was with words like 'deranged' or 'tin-foil hat', or 'far right.' I didn't suggest he believed other things, beyond what he had said, such as for example, that that people who believe as he does, believe that anti-mandate protestors are all going to die, and in doing so, use what he didn't actually say to cast him in a bad light. I didn't suggest he was a part of a simpleton hive-mind manipulated and funded by covert, and shady overseas interests, or suggest that he couldn't think for himself.

            Mate, I think you need to be applying for the New Zealand Sheep Dog Trials

            Finally, I didn't say or imply that he was being paid to write for TS.

            You just did!

            [Ok, Jenny, time to let it go now – Incognito]

            • Just Saying 3.4.3.1.1.1

              Sigh, no I didn't. It was a reference to a post by incognito this morning.

              A 'dog whistle' is a covert comment, one that only be detected by the person or group (or with a physical whistle, dog) it is directed at. I wasn't being subtle or covert, Jenny, how to get there, I was trying to be crystal clear in the examples I was using. I was explicitly and deliberately using examples of slurs that had been or were being directed at pro-protest commenters. I didn't imagine the fact would be unheard by anyone here, or even anyone who has been attending to the debate.

            • Incognito 3.4.3.1.1.2

              Mod note for you.

          • Shanreagh 3.4.3.1.2

            I may be going dotty but I don't think I have posted in this thread yet. So why am I getting the lecture about Mickey's posts and playing the ball not the man from Just Saying?

            But for what it is worth I have a view and that is that when one's country is involved, as opposed to a protest on or about an individual or group of individuals, a protest lifts itself to a higher level. When one is protesting against the warlike actions of one's own country, a country where freedom of speech as we have it not universal, it transcends, in my view, any protest that is going on here in NZ.

            So quite apart from MS' more light hearted comparisons the two are nothing alike in mana or content. The people in Russia protesting against the actions of their own country as it invades another, and presumably they are doing this while Russia is on a semi war footing, are taking a very real risk.

    • mauī 3.5

      Sad day indeed… you wonder what Michael Joseph Savage would think seeing New Zealand's downtrodden precariat being shat on from a great height by whatever it is that is now the left.

      • Jenny how to get there 3.5.1

        Michael Joseph Savage who brought in mandatory conscription to fight the nazi scourge, would have been very proud of this governments courageous science based approach to fighting the scourge of Covid-19

  4. Ad 4

    Mickey have they released the judgement from yesterday showing that the vaccine mandates were illegal for NZPolice and NZDF?

    The earlier Employment Court judgements related to border workers.

    Maybe, just maybe, those protesters have a point.

    • DukeEll 4.1

      No way. The clownvoy don’t have any legitimate point. If they did the, they would embarrass the government and show up the nastiness of its supporters. Can’t let that point be made now

    • ghostwhowalksnz 4.2

      The Judge has made an error of fact in the linking of Pfizer vaccine testing to foetal cell lines.

      Even the Vatican has issued a policy that supports that form of vaccine testing

      Im seeing an appeal happening soon and or a stay on his judgement.

      Im sure lawyers will also point out the decision only works for those who claimed a a particular religious reason for refusing vaccine.

    • Shanreagh 4.3

      Discussion including judgment here. On Protest 25/2/22

      8.1

      25 February 2022 at 2:49 pm

      My view from reading the judgment is that it does not legitimise the protest unless you are one of the 279 members of Police/Defence it applies to. Very specific fact situation relating to these workers and I doubt, though willing to be corrected, that is would apply to others.

    • mickysavage 4.4

      Hi Ad yep the judgment is at https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/cases/2022/2022-NZHC-291.pdf

      Contrary to some comments it is not a universal overturning of vaccine mandates, it is rather limited in its logic to the situation before it and the police still have means to enforce a mandate.

      It does recognise that mandates will have an end point. I am sure we all agree on that.

      • tsmithfield 4.4.1

        But there are implications from this decision that businesses need to consider:

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127893208/what-does-vaccine-mandate-decision-mean-for-businesses

        "But Duncan Cotterill partner and employment lawyer Olivia Lund​ said while the High Court decision was limited in its direct application, there were several parts applicable to private business.

        “The decision essentially upholds the freedom of religious beliefs and people’s right to uphold that. So if you have had an employee objecting to a vaccine mandate on those grounds, we now have a case that shows that is a valid objection to vaccine mandates,” Lund​ said.

        Employers would need to properly consider religious beliefs and what reasonable accommodations can be made to employees objecting to vaccine mandates on those grounds, she said.

        The second aspect of the decision for private employers was that the High Court accepted evidence that the effectiveness of the vaccine was reduced when facing Omicron, she said.

        “The acceptance that the vaccine is less effective against Omicron may call into question some decisions that employers had made, if they had undertaken a health and safety risk based on the vaccine stopping transmission.”"

        Personally, I support the protests to the extent that I think mandates are no longer effective or necessary, in that they don't do much to prevent transmission, and they are no longer needed in terms of encouraging vaccination since we are now highly vaccinated.

        • Shanreagh 4.4.1.1

          Personally, I support the protests to the extent that I think mandates are no longer effective or necessary, in that they don't do much to prevent transmission, and they are no longer needed in terms of encouraging vaccination since we are now highly vaccinated.

          I think we need to be a bit more nuanced than this though. Lifting health protections when we have not even at the peak of our omicron surge is premature. PM has been at pains to say (the latest time this morning ) that they will be lifted when they are not needed. To lift them now so we have maskless and unvaccinated people roaming around is probably not a sensible move. The peak is forecast to be mid March/end March.

          What exactly is the problem with waiting a month or so?

          We are still trying to support our local businesses, mainly hospo or food. We'll just give this up altogether if masking or vaccination policies are not kept up until we are through the surge.

          We had our first personal instance of unpleasant maskless and unvaxxed people trying to get food at a cafe (seating and food to takeaway) yesterday in Otaki. Owner had a physically distanced line where we were invited to step forward one by one to the counter to choose and pay after showing our vax cards. Unvaxxed were catered for by a window out onto the road. They were not to come inside.

          A chin mask wearing person crowded in front of me, ignored the call to show the pass and walked right up to the counter. Escorted out to the window where they made a choice and had the eftpos machine passed out. He joined another totally unmasked person there and it was clear from the convo that this was a bit of a game, this harassment of shop assistants. They were both old enough to know better being in their 40-50s by the looks.

          An acquaintance who runs a takeaway bakery on the main road on Otaki shared her experiences when I was there last week. There the unmasked just glare through the windows at her. She says they seemed to object to her wearing a mask as well as the request that they be masked. Seems totally illogical to me.

          This is the second day in a row she has not been there. Level of horrible seems pretty high.

      • Shanreagh 4.4.2

        Thank you MS. I have been trying to make that point as well.

        I found the reasoning on the religious side a bit odd. Seems he was influenced by some of the CTs around about how the vaccine is made.

      • Ad 4.4.3

        The judge is saying firstly that Minister Wood was making poor orders on bad advice, and the Order had to be corrected. This is on an Order that came into effect just 2 months ago.

        The judge also says he's the guy with the main precedent decisions in this field so take notice.

        Then he says that the force of the Minister's Order was out of whack to the marginal difference it made over the vaccine policies already in place at NZPolice and NZDF.

        So on two counts the Minister had got his BORA balance wrong.

        I'm glad that a judge is getting on to this.

        But he also makes a really interesting point at the beginning: that vaccine mandates were OK last year because they demonstrably held a wave of COVID back.

        But now that COVID is utterly out of control, that question is completely open again.

        I hope NZDF and NZPolice take this to Appeal, and that the HRC support the people affected.

        Hopefully more such cases get up there. we need a Supreme Court case on this fast.

        This is showing all the hallmarks of government taking rights off us when there was a useful effect, then forgetting when to give them back.

        • McFlock 4.4.3.1

          If it was a drafting issue or whatever, I'm happy with the concept that employers need to be able to write and implement policies correctly or the court rips them up.

          So while it can go all through the courts or even back to the legislature, the ideal outcome would be for the minister or whomever to review the judgement and issue a new directive that has the same outcome but explicitly (and truthfully) complies with the law.

        • ghostwhowalksnz 4.4.3.2

          'vaccine mandates were OK last year because they demonstrably held a wave of COVID back.'

          NO

          That was soley due to the border and lockdowns within NZ, allied with low case numbers which meant contact tracing worked

          We havent re-indroduced lockdowns BECAUSE we have high vaccination numbers , with mandates being a part of that

  5. Peter 5

    Let's see, the difference between the Wellington Protests and Russia?

    Ardern could come out on Monday and say there'll be no mandates anywhere about jabs or masks or numbers at events, the world is open people have the freedom they said drove them as the most important thing in the world.

    She could then say there's a ship leaving to take 5,000 to Ukraine to fight for precious Freedom. Be on the wharf next Sunday morning and the Ship of Freedom will sail. The streets of Wellington would be clogged with the thousands clambering over each other to be in the mode of their great-grand parents going away to fight for the most precious thing in the world.

    That it? No fucken way, they'll all be at home on Facebook talking about how brave they were, watching Married at First Sight on TV that they'd had to miss for a couple of weeks and toddling down to their local cafe to bask in the glory of the great warriors they saw themselves as.

  6. Ad 6

    A key similarity is that both the left and Putin are using claims that the whole thing being run by NAZIs as a pretext for taking any action they like.

  7. adam 7

    I know your using irony Mickey, but on a serious note.

    The Russian Anarchist peace protestors from the Crimea annexation in 2014 are still in jail awaiting trial. One of the arrested been granted conjugal rights. As he was married before the arrest, but that has been taken away again with the invasion, as his wife has now been arrested. Not 100% sure when she was locked up, but it does look like it was just before the invasion.

    • mickysavage 7.1

      I have caused a considerable number of adverse responses to this post. I agree the Ukraine situation is deadly serious and in using the phrase "humour" did not intend to suggest that the situation was even slightly humourous.

      I am still perplexed by the Wellington protest. My emotions go through the spectrum of hatred for the far right, contempt for the organisers and their cash flow, pity and concern for some of the participants but when they start talking about Qanon and wear tinfoil hats then I know something is really wrong. That protest has the possibility of spiraling out of control really quickly. The state response has been weak and too many threats have been made against people I have a lot of respect for.

      Clearly some think it was in bad taste. Humour is the device I use to handle really difficult circumstances.

      • McFlock 7.1.1

        Same reflex often gets me in trouble – and ruins the occasional date lol

        I thought it was a pretty good juxtaposition: people protesting in Russia are facing down the stuff that the tinfoil hat crowd in Wellington are leveraging for their own cause.

      • Anker 7.1.2

        I didn't think it was bad taste. But people vary in what is o.k. for them. I hope you are able to see this for what it is. We all need to take responsibility for our own feelings. I hope this doesn't cause bad feelings for you. You strike me as the sort of person who tries to do the right thing.

        I see the whole protest thing from so many perspectives, I really do. And I feel incredibly sorry for amongst others, the police. Those guys on the front line facing the anti social behaviour and I suspect there are a number of people there who are anti social in the true (psychiatric) sense of the word.

        My most comforting thought is that this will end. It must do. People are getting sick, and the mandates will end.

        This is a really difficult time for our country. Probably the worse time since the Spring Box tour………..maybe worse. At least we had the end date for the tour.

        • Obtrectator 7.1.2.1

          "At least we had the end date for the tour."

          But not for its after-effects, which persisted till at least July 1984.

  8. peter sim 8

    Adults behaving like 3 year olds is dismaying. I blame the education system. SARC.

    No wonder d seymour courted them.

  9. Pierre 9

    No Nazis spotted at the anti-war rallies in Russia, but Banderites are popping up at the "Ukraine Solidarity" demos everywhere else. Keep an eye out for the Blood and Soil flags.

  10. georgecom 11

    2 main differences stand out for me.

    NZ is being invaded by a virus, Ukraine is been invaded by a powerful neighbour

    Once Omicron is gone those at camp covid will still be NZ citizens, who knows what awaits Ukranians

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    The coalition government is delivering on its commitment to making principled decisions by getting rid of red tape that doesn’t make sense and allowing sick New Zealanders greater freedom and choice to purchase effective cold and flu medicines. A bill amending the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 is being introduced, and changes to the Medicines ...
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    7 hours ago
  • Government begins reset of welfare system
    The Coalition Government is taking early action to curb the surge in welfare dependency that occurred under the previous government by setting out its expectations around employment and the use of benefit sanctions, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. In 2017, 60,588 sanctions were applied to beneficiaries who ...
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    23 hours ago
  • State of the Nation
    Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. Thank you for coming to my first State of the Nation as Prime Minister. Thank you for coming to a speech where I don’t just ...
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    2 days ago
  • West Coast tourism attractions officially open
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will attend the official opening of two highly anticipated tourism projects on the West Coast today – Pike29 Memorial Track, dedicated to the memory of the Pike River miners, and Pounamu Pathway. “The Pike29 Memorial Track is a way to remember and honour the men ...
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    4 days ago
  • Independent ferry service advisory group in place
    Appointments to the Ministerial Advisory Group tasked with providing independent advice and assurance on the future of KiwiRail’s inter-island ferry service have been made, State Owned Enterprises Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It’s important for New Zealand that KiwiRail is focused on ensuring safe, resilient, and reliable ferry services over the ...
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    5 days ago
  • Joint statement from the Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand
    The Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on reports of Israel’s planned military operation in Rafah. We are gravely concerned by indications that Israel is planning a ground offensive into Rafah.   A military operation into Rafah would be catastrophic. About 1.5 million Palestinians ...
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    5 days ago
  • Govt will deliver on expanded breast screening
    The coalition Government has made the first steps in delivering on its promise to  extend free breast screening to women aged 70-74, Health Minister Shane Reti says. “As part of the 100 day plan, the Government has now met with officials and discussed what is needed in order for the ...
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    5 days ago
  • Government announces woolshed roadshows in support of sheep farmers
    The Government celebrates National Lamb Day (15 February 24) and congratulates sheep farmers on the high-quality products they continue to produce. Agriculture Minister McClay hosted bipartisan celebrations of National Lamb Day with industry representatives at Parliament this week to mark the anniversary of the first frozen lamb exports that left ...
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    5 days ago
  • Speech: Address to the NZ Economics Forum
    It’s great to be back at the New Zealand Economics Forum. I would like to acknowledge everyone here today for your expertise and contribution, especially the Pro Vice-Chancellor, Head of the Waikato Management School, economists, students and experts alike. A year has passed since I was last before you, and ...
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    5 days ago
  • Government tackling high construction costs
    The Government is focused on reducing sky-high construction costs to make it more affordable to build a home, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.  Stats NZ data shows the cost of building a house has increased by 41 per cent since 2019, making housing even more unaffordable for Kiwi ...
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    5 days ago
  • Labour’s Three Waters legislation repealed
    The Coalition Government’s legislative plan to address longstanding issues with local water infrastructure and service delivery took an important step today, with the repeal of Labour’s divisive and unpopular Three Waters legislation, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says. “Repealing this legislation is a necessary first step in implementing our Local ...
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    6 days ago
  • Cost of living support for beneficiary households
    The Coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to ease the cost-of-living by increasing main benefit rates in line with inflation and ensuring the Minimum Family Tax Credit threshold remains aligned with this change, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. The Social Security (Benefits Adjustment) and Income Tax ...
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    6 days ago
  • Government announces agriculture delegations to better support Primary sector
    The coalition Government has announced ministerial delegations to support key areas across the Primary sector to deliver for New Zealand’s food and fibre sector, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I will be supported in my roles as Minister of Agriculture, Trade, Forestry and Hunting and Fishing, by three Associate ...
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    1 week ago
  • Waikato MoU reinforces Govt’s commitment to increase NZ doctors
    The Government has taken an important step forward in addressing a critical shortage of New Zealand-trained doctors, with today’s signing of a Memorandum of Understanding for a third medical school, Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti has announced.  “Today’s signing by the Ministry of Health and the University of Waikato ...
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    1 week ago
  • Speech – Lunar New Year 2024
    Annyeonghaseyo, greetings and welcome all. It is my pleasure as the Minister for Ethnic Communities to welcome you to the first Lunar New Year Event in Parliament. Thank you to our emcees for greeting us in the different languages that represent the many cultures that celebrate the Lunar New Year. ...
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    1 week ago
  • More funding to Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti
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    1 week ago
  • Budget will be delivered on 30 May
    Plans to deliver tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders, rebuild business confidence and restore the Crown’s finances to order will be unveiled on 30 May, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The plans will be announced in the Budget which is currently being developed by Ministers.  “The last government’s mismanagement of ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government advances Local Water Done Well
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    1 week ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
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    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the Committee for Auckland
    It is great to be here today at this event as Minister for Auckland and Minister ofTransport. Let me start by acknowledging each one of you and thanking the Committee forAuckland for hosting this event and inviting me to speak here today. The Committee for Auckland has been a symbol ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Getting Transport Back on Track in Auckland
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    2 weeks ago
  • Government to axe Auckland Regional Fuel Tax
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has confirmed that the Auckland Regional Fuel Tax will end on 30 June 2024. “Today, I can confirm that the Government has agreed to remove the Auckland Regional Fuel Tax in line with our coalition commitments, and legislation will be introduced to parliament to repeal the ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Minister Calls for Work to Tackle Kina Barrens
    Changes to fishing rules and a significant science programme are being undertaken to address kina barrens, says Minister for Oceans and Fisheries Shane Jones. “There has been tremendous interest from iwi, communities and recreational fishers who had raised concerns about such kina infestations being a major threat to Northland’s marine ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Government law and order crackdown begins
    The coalition Government is making good on its promise to restore law and order by removing government funding for Section 27 reports and abolishing the previous Labour Government’s prison reduction target, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell say.  “In recent years, the development of Section 27 reports ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Greater focus on getting people into work
    The coalition government will refocus employment efforts and the welfare system so that supporting people who can work into jobs is the number one priority, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Of concern in the labour market statistics released by Stats NZ today was the number of youth not ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • One year on, NZ appeals for release of Phillip Mehrtens
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has appealed to those holding New Zealand pilot Phillip Mehrtens in remote Papua, Indonesia, to release him immediately.  Phillip Mehrtens was taken hostage a year ago on 7 February in Paro, Papua, while providing vital air links and supplies to remote communities. “We strongly urge those holding ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Ministers reaffirm Pacific connections this week
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Health Minister and Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti are reaffirming the importance of New Zealand’s connections to the Pacific by visiting Tonga, Cook Islands and Samoa this week.  “New Zealand enjoys strong and long-standing relationships with our Pacific partners - especially in Polynesia, where we ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Rt Hon Christopher Luxon – Waitangi speech
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, rau rangatira ma. Tēnā koutou katoa. He tino mihi ki te mana whenua o tēnei rohe.  Mihi mai, mihi mai, mihi mai. Te whare e tū nei, tēnā koe.                               He-wāhi whakahirahira tēnei mō Aotearoa. Ka huri nga whakaaro, ki nga mate. ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Government awards primary sector scholarships to students
    Six university students studying agriculture and science have been awarded scholarships as part of the coalition Government’s efforts to boost on-the-ground support for farmers and growers. “The coalition Government is committed to improving support and operating conditions for farmers and growers,” Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. “We’re backing a range ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • High Court Judge appointed
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister Jason Scott McHerron as a High Court Judge. Justice McHerron graduated from the University of Otago with a BA in English literature in 1994 and an LLB in 1996. From 1996 to 1999 he worked as a solicitor in the ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • New Zealand provides further humanitarian support to Gaza and the West Bank
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced that New Zealand is providing a further $5 million to respond to the extreme humanitarian need in Gaza and the West Bank.  “The impact of the Israel-Hamas conflict on civilians is absolutely appalling,” Mr Peters says.  “That is why New Zealand has contributed $15 ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Government consults on expanding COVID-19 Inquiry terms of reference
    The Government is delivering on its commitment to enable public input into expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, says Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden. “As committed to in both the ACT-National and NZ First-National coalition agreements, the public will be given the opportunity ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Tai Tokerau Water Boost
    A further $5 million loan has been advanced to the Tai Tokerau Water Trust for Te Waihekeora Reservoir, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says.  “Water is a precious resource, Kānoa – Regional Development and Investment Unit at the Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment have done amazing work in the ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Fast track consenting in the fast lane
    The Government is progressing changes to resource management laws as part of its 100 Day Action Plan, with the first steps taken to establish a new fast-track consenting one-stop shop regime. “This new regime, which forms part of National’s coalition agreement with New Zealand First, will improve the speed and ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • JOINT STATEMENT ON AUSTRALIA-NEW ZEALAND MINISTERIAL CONSULTATIONS (ANZMIN) 2024
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence the Hon Richard Marles MP and Minister for Foreign Affairs Senator the Hon Penny Wong hosted New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Rt Hon Winston Peters MP and Minister of Defence Hon Judith Collins KC MP on 1 February ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Minimum wage set for cautious increase
    The adult minimum wage rate will increase by 2 per cent to $23.15 an hour from 1 April 2024, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden announced today. “This Government is committed to striking the right balance between protecting the incomes of our lowest paid workers and maintaining labour ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Increased security improves ED safety over summer
    Increasing the number of security staff in emergency departments (EDs) over the busy Christmas and New Year period improved the safety of both staff and patients, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. 200 additional security staff (93 FTEs) were provided to 32 EDs in response to concerns raised by ED ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Step Closer for European Union Free Trade Agreement
    New Zealand has moved closer to ratifying the New Zealand – European Union Free Trade Agreement (FTA), with the First Reading of legislation to bring the Agreement into force being held in Parliament today.   “Almost a decade after preparatory talks first began on an FTA with the European Union, I’m pleased to ...
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    3 weeks ago

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