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The gun lobby fights back

Written By: - Date published: 12:27 pm, March 30th, 2019 - 16 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, act, Christchurch Attack, david seymour, Politics, terrorism, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

Who can think about the most insensitive thing someone could do right now in Aotearoa New Zealand?

How about run a petition AGAINST the banning of military style semi automatic weapons?

Well I can go one further.  How about having sold the weapons to the killer then use or allow your business email account to urge others to sign the petition?

Sounds too far fetched?

Well that is what is happening.

From Derek Cheng at the Herald:

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced a ban on MSSAs and assault rifles last week, after the terrorist attack in Christchurch. Legislation is expected to be introduced on Tuesday and passed under urgency. It has support across the political spectrum.

The legislation is expected to become law by April 11. There will be a truncated select committee process to hear public submissions. The Government is also working on the details of a buy-back scheme, estimated to cost up to $200 million.

In response, Gun City emailed its subscribers today and urged them to sign a petition to Parliament.

The petition, in the name of Hayden Livingstone, started on Monday and had 10,786 signatures by 5pm on Friday.

The petition requested “an in-depth public consultation period on changes to New Zealand firearms legislation, to ensure effective firearms legislation reform that does not unduly punish law-abiding firearms owners while maintaining assurances of public safety”.

It called the Government’s gun law reforms “ill-advised, partly due to the speed at which they have been implemented and also due to (understandable) emotionally driven public pressure”.

The Gun City email, obtained by the Herald, asked for more information on the Government’s proposed buy-back scheme, including whether it would compensate for gun accessories and ammunition, lost income or employment, booked travel to events to use MSSAs, or losses from investment in shooting facilities.

It also called for an independent inquiry into how the gunman in the Christchurch shootings obtained a firearms licence.

To that should be added an inquiry into how he obtained the guns, just to be safe.  And while at it they should inquire into the good character requirements for gun shop owners.  Just to make sure that we do not have owners of these businesses have anything untoward in their background either here or overseas.

Gun City’s email had a link to a Council of Licenced Firearms Owners document which suggests all of the talking points that gun nuts use world wide such as “you are confiscating my property from me and I am not being given a chance to have any say about it”, and “I do not like the way I am being treated. I have not done anything wrong. I am law-abiding.”

I am pleased that there is near unanimity amongst all of our MPs in support of the proposal.  If not quite complete unanimity …

Act Party David Seymour has also criticised the “rushed process” of the legislation and said it would “deny the public the chance to have their say”.

He said it could lead to legislation that failed to solve the problem.

“Trying to pass a law in less than three weeks is a recipe for bad lawmaking.”

This is the first step.  There will be a full review of all gun laws.  But ridding ourselves of these weapons of evil seems to me to be the first thing that should be done.

It is hardly as if it has no International comparison.  Australia and the UK have banned these weapons.  And Australia has had a buy back scheme operate.

There are 13,500 known MSSAs in New Zealand and it is estimated that the buy back process could cost up to $200 million.  That makes the cost about $17,400 per gun which does not seem right although I appreciate there will be police resources, collection costs, advertising and disposal costs on top.

But let’s get rid of them.  And to all those people out there that they are law abiding and innocent there is an example of someone said to be law abiding and innocent who had a significant role in what happened.  And he does not have the decency to realise it.

16 comments on “The gun lobby fights back ”

  1. Sabine 1

    oh well, i guess it is good that the white supremacist mass murderer was a law abiding gun owner until the moment he used his weapons to shoot down people by the dozens.

    we still need to have this discussion.

    • Jilly Bee 1.1

      @ Sabine, I got the distinct impression that MS may have been referring to David Tipple, the owner of Gun City which sold 4 guns to the bloke who ran amok in Christchurch two weeks ago. Then again David Tipple isn’t exactly a law abiding citizen, so you’re probably correct with your assumption. I’m just worried that if there is too much hui and no doey the process will get stymied and grind to a halt.

      • Incognito 1.1.1

        Correct. It is in the links in the post and also in the Tags at the top.

      • Sabine 1.1.2

        your distinct impression is correct.

        However the point mr. tipple is making is about ‘law abiding gun owners’ and i just pointed out that the mass murderer of was a law abiding gun owner – 5 to be presice – until he choose to murder.

        thus his point about law abiding gun owners is moot. anyone who is law abiding today can break the law tomorrow, be it speeding, smoking a joint, or taking some guns downtown to go on a killing spree.

    • left_forward 1.2

      That is indeed the point Sabine.

  2. We need to be loud and clear in pushing back against the ‘rushed’ or ’emotional’ narrative every time it’s pushed.

    National carried out a Select Committee investigation by firearms experts in 2016 and ignored the results. This is tragically delayed action, not rushed.

    • Sacha 2.1

      This. The consultation has already been done. Time to get on with the law change and ignore the whining from the NRA and its local chums and useful idiots.

  3. Heather Tanguay 3

    The Thorpe Report contained numerous recommendations and the then Police Minister Paula Bennett, chose to only adopt 7 recommendations.
    The work has been done. We know what has to happen.
    While we are at it, I want to see Gun Cities advertising severely curtailed.

    • Mr Nobody 3.1

      Hi Jess,

      The Thorpe Report came out in 1997 post the Aromoana tragedy so Bennet had no involvement with it during her review in 2017.

      One thing to keep in mind is that there were changes made to the act only last year by the Currently government which actually loosen the rules around MSSA’s.

      From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand)
      “Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern oversaw recent changes which meant people didn’t need to visit their local police station to apply for permits for military style guns. Ardern was the chair of an executive committee which ushered through amendments to the Arms Regulations 2002, to allow Police to accept and process various applications concerning firearms licences and weapons transactions electronically, which were included in the Arms (Electronic Transactions) Amendment Regulations 2018[24] that were published in the Gazette on 20 December 2018, commence 28 days afterwards. Previously under the Arms Act, if someone wanted to become a gun dealer, get a firearms licence, import a restricted weapon, or get a permit to buy a military-style semi-automatic, they had to physically deliver an application to their nearest police station.

      The regulations also allow for a buyer of a restricted weapon to show that weapon to police by video call – whereas in the past they had to take it into the station.”

  4. John Chapman 4

    Tipple stands to lose a great deal of sales if semi autos remain banned. He saw the niche in the market and ruthlessly exploited it. Gun City is perhaps the only firearms retailer to push sales of semis through newspaper advertising especially AK 47 and the dirivitive SKS which he imports from China along with AR15 knock offs, piling them high and selling them cheap to the rambo wannabes who populate the outer fringes of New Zealand gun culture. The problem gun dealers have is that the majority of firearms users just want a gun for hunting and another one for pest control. They aren’t actually going to keep buying guns because if you look after them they will practically last forever – my Sako bolt action hunting rifle will almost certainly one day become my grandsons. Hence Tipples need to market semis. And there is a genuine need for them in the hands DOC Biodiversity Rangers doing pest control or the Rangers taking part in the South Island Tahr cull. Shooting from helicopters you need two shots per animal to make sure it’s a clean kill. Any future legislation can accomodate that though. I don’t personally like them because they are never SAFE with a bolt action you take out the bolt and the gun is no more dangerous than a canoe paddle. I know of at least two accidental shootings that are a direct result of poor storage of a semi being accessed by children. I’m sure the government will face down Tipple and ban the gun no one except a select few needs.

  5. greywarshark 5

    It was legal, he will say. It’s not his fault. It’s the gummint that led him astray.
    His favourite song ‘ I Didn’t Know the Gun was Loaded’ by the Andrews Sisters.

  6. Dukeofurl 6

    I understand it goes further than removing mssa or military style semi automatics and included ALL semi automatics that can have interchangeable magazines(excluding .22), a far larger number of guns.
    They used to be called ‘sporting configuration’ rather than MSSA

  7. barry 7


    The consultation has been going nearly 30 years since Aramoana. Clearly it has been too slow, as probably more than 100 lives would have been spared if the changes had been made then.

  8. patricia bremner 8

    Actually, with an attitude like his it seriously begs the question whether Tipple is “of good character”. His attitude seems rather entitled. 4 plus traffic violations tells a story.

    Anyone stopped warned, then stopped again doing that speed,, 177km per hour should have to do a defensive driving course as well as lose his licence. Tipple seems to think the rules are for other people.

    That he has begun a petition and is protecting his business is understandable, if he was selling anything but military styled guns.
    For once urgency will work for the Public, as that is what it is for. To quickly change bad dangerous law, which was looked at in depth, and not totally enacted under Paula Bennett,the Thorpe Report, 7 out of 20 recommendations.

  9. Daniel Eyre 9

    If you take a look at this petition:
    And attempt to sign it; you’ll notice that theres no compulsion for the person to sign this to even be a New Zealander. So there’s a good chance that this is being signed by a fair number of American gun nuts.

  10. Sanctuary 10

    The gun lobby is radioactive right now. Every vote they gain, they lose three.

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