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WINZ sends families to live in garages

Written By: - Date published: 7:05 am, July 21st, 2016 - 204 comments
Categories: class war, housing, human rights, national, quality of life - Tags: , , , , , ,

A couple of days ago Newshub ran these disturbing stories:

‘Predatory’ property managers renting out Auckland garages

A Newshub investigation has revealed Auckland garages are being rented out illegally for more than $400 a week.

In a case that is currently before the Tenancy Tribunal, one property manager is accused of commandeering a garage, converting it and renting it out to separate tenants. … Newshub’s own investigation shows the former garage is consented only for use as a garage and can’t legally be lived in.

Former tenant Jacine Greaves says tenants in the garage were “desperate, vulnerable people who had no other choice, people who had hit rock-bottom”. …


Landlords renting out ‘unsafe’ conversions

Auckland Council says there’s been a significant rise in reports of dangerous and unsanitary buildings that are being passed off as rental accommodation.

Auckland Council general manager building control Ian McCormick says the council takes a tough stance on anyone profiting from illegal garage conversions or substandard rentals.

Last year the council issued more than 700 notices requiring owners or landlord to ‘fix’ their properties – most related to buildings being used as accommodation without consent.

But in just the past six months, the number of complaints in central Auckland alone jumped to 750, with a further 600 in south Auckland – almost 500 of which related to unconsented dwellings. …

(Update: Senior cop owns illegal garage rentals)

This is clearly a huge problem, and while Auckland Council may be taking a “tough stance”, WINZ is doing the exact opposite. Last night on RNZ Checkpoint:

Work and Income sent families to garages

Work and Income has admitted it directed desperate people to garages and houses where entire families crowded into a single room, and paid their bonds as well.

A South Auckland property manager, Debbie Widharni Iskandar, rented garages to families for up to $400 a week.

People have told RNZ News today they were placed in those properties by Work and Income itself. …

This is New Zealand in the Eighth Year of the Brighter Future. The government is demolishing and selling state house while WINZ sends families to live in garages. Those who can’t manage even an illegal garage live in their cars, or sleep rough on the streets. If this all doesn’t seem right to you, submit to the cross-party inquiry into homelessness. And you should be working to change the government.

204 comments on “WINZ sends families to live in garages ”

  1. Paul 1

    As I repeat most days…

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    • Reddelusion 1.1

      Another day in NZ and we have become blissfully inoculated from over exposure from Pauls mad rants, doom day predictions and wretched postings 😀

      • integralenz 1.1.1

        Who’s “we”? Speak for yourself.

      • Sabine 1.1.2

        oh dear. You are not having a good day today?

      • North 1.1.3

        Delusion – such a wonderful human being – laughing at the wretchedly poor.

      • Macro 1.1.4

        Another day in NZ and we have become blissfully inoculated from over exposure from Pauls mad rants, doom day predictions and wretched postings biased media, consumption advertising, the promotion of greed as a virtue, and the dismantling of the welfare state and caring for others, all for the benefit of the 0.01%ers. 🙁

      • leftie 1.1.5

        The thing is Reddelusion, what Paul is posting is factual and true. Most Kiwis don’t live on some regal golf course on planet Key, like you do.

        • You_Fool

          But Naz got all upset the other day so I have to read about that! Also Taylor Swift and Kanye are having more twitter fights, and OMG it is getting real.

          Anyway these people all cause it themselves and should get a job!


      • Maninthemiddle 1.1.6

        True. Meanwhile, back in the real world, jobs are created, the economy grows, inflation is controlled, houses are built…

        • leftie

          Lies Maninthemiddle. Get off planet Key.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            They aren’t lies. They’re red herrings.

            …The lunatic on the other hand, doesn’t concern himself at all with logic; he works by short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else. The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy…

            Umberto Eco, Foucault’s Pendulum

            • maninthemiddle

              Still running, aren’t you OAB. Instead of addressing the points I’m making, you run into your cave. Good job.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Running from red herrings, that’s a new one.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                It’s amazing, measuring success by the size of the labour force: a really subtle approach.

                For example, a list of countries by workforce size informs us that New Zealand is ranked at 110th, only 71 places below Venezuela.

                Thanks for introducing us to this new tool.

                • maninthemiddle

                  How does that rank by population OAB?

                  Labour force is one measure, but the OECD sings our praises on a whole raft of measures.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    I’d avoid percentages at all costs if I were you, otherwise we’re back to what was 3% in 2007 and that just brings out your snivelling hypocrisy.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      Answer the question. How does that rank by population? You need a lesson in stats my friend.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The point (that you’re having so much ‘trouble’ figuring out), is that in New Zealand, “by population”, the unemployment rate in 2007 was ~3%. The unemployment rate now is ~6%.

                      So your red herring about the size of the labour force is a red herring, as I was saying. Either that or you think it’s relevant, in which case I pity you.

                      If you cannot do the sums to figure out where NZ ranks against other nations “by population”, I shouldn’t be at all surprised.

                      PS: you mentioned the OECD (pdf):

                      Main findings
                      • Housing and infrastructure shortages in Auckland could limit the economic expansion.
                      • Poverty rates have increased and are particularly high for
                      jobless households.
                      • Housing costs are high for low-income households.
                      • Children from disadvantaged backgrounds have considerably worse education outcomes than others.

                  • MoreEqualThanYou

                    You can cite rosy OECD stats and figures til you’re blue in the mug, but the very real problems spawned by rampant greed-driven politics and abysmally inept governance remain a stark reality for a growing number of kiwis…Houses are built for the affluent! The economy grows for the affluent and jobs are created to keep the working poor right where they’re supposed to be; stuck in a state of permanent debt in this south pacific gated community for soulless, grasping scum-bags.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      What utter garbage. There are ample affordable houses in NZ, if you’re prepared to move, which has always been the case. The economic boom we are experiencing is providing jobs across the spectrum, from well paid trade positions to basic wage jobs in hospitality. That has always been the case. And the truth is this – real wages have increased under National, they declined under Labour.

            • Jono

              Yep we have lots of lunatics in New Zealand supporting FJK and his Natz party… That’s the only way they can understand them.

        • Stuart Munro

          Ghost jobs, ‘technical’ growth, ‘inflation’ ex-housing – all pathetic lies from this useless, criminal, kleptocratic fake government. And their muppets.

          But Key has an elephant – only cost us $90 million.

          • maninthemiddle

            Of course. The Department of Statistics, Treasury, all the Trading banks…they are all in some conspiracy to report dodgy figures.

            No, you can’t accept the reality that a CR government is actually doing a damn good job, and the overwhelming data supports that.

            • lprent

              House prices driven by ridiculous nett migration into New Zealand suggests that you just ignore the most relevant statistics.

              The nett migration of 67k people in the end of March year and tourism is currently the only thing holding up the internal economy. And that is a fools way of running an economy.short term stupidity.

              But I guess that is why you like it – you do appear to have the attention span of a small child.

            • Stuart Munro

              Yes they are lying.

              Conspiring – maybe not – but certainly colluding. Australia has real unemployment of 18.8% – NZ’s won’t be any better – but they pretend.

              This government – the government that lies, is not doing a damned good job. People living in garages is not success. Selling our houses and farms offshore is not success. Lying about economic performance while running up debt is not success.

              This government is lazy, they are corrupt, they are dishonest, and they are worthless – your peers in fact ‘man-in-the-middle-of-apologizing-for the-worst-government-NZ-has-ever-suffered.

              • maninthemiddle

                “People living in garages is not…” the governments fault. There FIFY.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Ah of course – it must be leftist refuseniks who fail to endorse the governments failures that are to blame. How about David Cunliffe, why not blame him?

                  You RWNJ will never get anywhere until you own and act to correct your failings.

                  • maninthemiddle

                    I don;t ‘blame’ anyone, least of all David Cunliffe. Homelessness in a prosperous nation like NZ is sad, but the default position of looking to the government doesn’t help anyone.

                    • Hanswurst

                      […] the default position of looking to the government doesn’t help anyone.

                      Of course it doesn’t, when the government’s “default position” is to sell the houses that were there for the purpose, and refuse as far as it can to build any new ones.

                      Is the staggering flimsiness of your claims a result of stupidity, or the troll’s technique of making them as easy as possible to rebut?

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “when the government’s “default position” is to sell the houses that were there for the purpose”

                      The government is not selling state houses where they are needed. What’s more, the social housing stock is considerably higher than it was a decade ago. What has changed is migration, a significant vote of confidence in a very competent and popular government.

      • reason 1.1.7

        But you’ve always been comfortable with people suffering Red-d ….

        You just don’t like the truth and facts being posted up and being acknowledged

        …Paul s just bearing witness

    • Mosa 1.2

      Paul it’s been this way scince the late 1980s.
      Huge wealth breeds indifference , arrogance ,greed and ignorance.
      Kiwis have been told that privilege was dismantled by Roger Douglas for everyone except these policies have increased privilege to the top and the rest have to compete for fewer low paid jobs creating a dog eat dog society.
      And with encouragement from government we have been told too provide for ourselves that no state protection will be there.
      Neo lib = greed and selfishness.

      • Maninthemiddle 1.2.1

        Bollocks. There are far more jobs today than 39 years ago, better jobs with better pay. I am thankful the government is encouraging people off state dependency…but of course the left hate this. The left want everyone slaves to the state. Not for me thanks.

        • Rae

          Might be more jobs, there’s more people, but better pay? Not even, mate, not even, unless you a CEO of course

          • maninthemiddle

            Real incomes have risen steadily under this government. They fell under Labour.

            • Stuart Munro

              Nonsense – real incomes have been massively eroded by the fastest growing cost element – housing.

              • maninthemiddle

                Rubbish. The Massey study makes a lie of your claims.

                • Stuart Munro

                  We didn’t get 300 000 children in poverty by growing real incomes my little turnip.

                  • maninthemiddle

                    We don’t have 300,000 children in poverty. That’s a lie, best repeated by the left desperate for a narrative that satisfies their Key Derangement Syndrome.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      That’s true!

                      According to Child Poverty Monitor at Otago University, the number using the most recent data is 305,000.

                      I expect you have some hairs to split. Go on, show everyone your values some more.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “According to Child Poverty Monitor at Otago University, the number using the most recent data is 305,000.”

                      If you are stupid enough to be fooled by the basis for that number, then the basis for much of what you say is suddenly clear.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      If you are stupid enough to imagine that it cannot be used to make valid like-for-like comparison between conditions now and in the 80’s, then you must be a right wing parrot.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “If you are stupid enough to imagine that it cannot be used to make valid like-for-like comparison between conditions now and in the 80’s, then you must be a right wing parrot.”

                      No. I just recognise bs when I see it.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So, for example, when the percentage of children who meet the criteria doubles in thirty years, you are so dishonest and feeble that your only option is to pretend that has no significance.

                      You don’t like this measure of poverty. That’s because you’d prefer it wasn’t measured at all.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “You don’t like this measure of poverty. ”

                      It isn’t a measure of poverty. It is a measure of children living in households earning less than 60% of the median wage. It is left wing hand wringing, which almost no-one believes expect an increasingly radicalised minority of idiots like you.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      By definition, that is a measure. One you don’t like.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “By definition, that is a measure.”

                      No, it is an artificial and arbitrary assignment. It’s designed to engender guilt and handwringing. It works for nutters like you.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Arbitrary and artificial are words that mean you don’t like it.

                      The fact is it doesn’t matter what measure is used (I note you will not propose an alternative): you’ll switch effortlessly between denying there’s a problem at all and blaming Labour and/or the victims for the problem you claim doesn’t exist.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Arbitrary and artificial are words that mean you don’t like it.”

                      No, they mean it is meaningless. The mean income goes up, poverty may statistically increase without any real change in peoples circumstances. Poverty in NZ means you don’t have a cell phone. Or a wide screen TV.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      mean ≠ median

                      Please demonstrate some more basic innumeracy.

                    • McFlock

                      The mean income goes up, poverty may statistically increase without any real change in peoples circumstances.

                      moroninthemiddle thinks “median” and “mean” are interchangeable…

                    • maninthemiddle

                      The term is median. Now address the challenge. How does assigning a % of the median wage accurately define ‘poverty’ any more than access to cell phones?

                      Oh, that’s right, you can’t.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      “accurately define”

                      As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.

                      Albert Einstein.

                      All models are wrong, some are useful

                      George Box.

                      It’s all wrong! It just is! I seen it!

                      Some anonymous liar on the internet.

                      I note that you cannot propose an alternative measure. Oh, and by the way, CPM discuss the measures they use extensively. Would you like to tell some more lies before I rub your face in them? I note that you are already feebly lying by pretending that they use any individual measure as an indicator, rather they use a combination of measures.

                      Why do you tell so many lies?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Perhaps you prefer OECD measures (linked earlier)

                      Main findings
                      • Housing and infrastructure shortages in Auckland could limit the economic expansion.
                      • Poverty rates have increased and are particularly high for
                      jobless households.
                      • Housing costs are high for low-income households.
                      • Children from disadvantaged backgrounds have considerably worse education outcomes than others.

                      Oh noes! Something more for you to lie about!

                    • McFlock

                      I love the way you admitted you used the wrong basic mathematical term as if it was someone else’s fault.

                      Anyway, I’ll pretend you’re actually interested in the development of poverty measures and the different measures used in NZ.

                      Go knock yourself out.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Why do you tell so many lies?”

                      Ah, is that your ‘last resort’?

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Perhaps you prefer OECD measures (linked earlier)”

                      It’s interesting how you gravitate to the nebulous over the precise.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Not really, fucko. I’m just noting that you’ll lie about and deny any measure, while failing (because you’re a lying failure) to suggest anything better.

                      Whether CPM statistics or OECD ones, your failing flailing sole strategy is to deny them, and fuck the kids they represent.

                      That’s why the most appropriate response to you is to spit on you in the street.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “I’m just noting that you’ll lie about and deny any measure, while failing (because you’re a lying failure) to suggest anything better.”

                      That’s something you have failed to evidence, despite many requests. At some point you’ll drop your delusions…or maybe not.

        • Keith

          State dependency like negatives geared investment homes or state dependency like collecting rental subsidies?

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          …the Left…

          Yesterday, when it was pointed out that putting words in people’s mouths is your idea of an argument, you promised to “dial it back”. Then you went right on doing it. Do you honestly believe anyone’s forgotten your snivelling hypocrisy?

          Meanwhile, on Earth, what was 8% in 1999, 3% in 2007, and is now back up to 6%, and what can that tell us about who is more successful at getting people off “state dependency”?

          I note that our snivelling hypocrite depends on the state for the rule of law, education, policing, etc etc.

          • srylands

            “Meanwhile, on Earth, what was 8% in 1999, 3% in 2007, and is now back up to 6%, and what can that tell us about who is more successful at getting people off “state dependency”?”

            Business cycles. Coupled by enormous growth in public consumption by the 5th labour Government.

            Increasing public consumption to generate “jobs” is not an achievement to be happy about. But I am sure you know that. You are simply being obtuse.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Being obtuse doesn’t strike you as an appropriate response to a snivelling hypocrite?

              Let’s take business cycles as a reasonable answer to the question: “what has the largest effect on the unemployment rate?”

              That being so, and considering the need to maintain a skilled workforce in the downtimes, blaming the poor for poverty, and begrudging the necessary investment required, also strikes me as obtuse, not to mention cruel and lacking basic competence.

              That said, S Rylands, you’re not that much better; you don’t tie yourself in granny knots like our snivelling hypocrite, and you’re still citing the same book of dogma.

              • srylands

                By not respecting my pseudonym, you are being extremely rude. You are also in breach of The Standard’s policies. I have submitted a complaint.


                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Perhaps you aren’t exactly who you say you are. Who can tell? Bit of a stink thing to do though, if you aren’t.

                • mikes

                  Hey Srylands, what about that bet?? (Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is or piss off back under your rock)

            • Stuart Munro

              What was 8% in 1999, 3% in 2007, and is now back up to 6%?

              Bill English’s brain function. Poor bastard, he simply cannot be helped.

              $150 billion in debt this year – genius!

          • maninthemiddle

            Show me where I’ve put words into peoples mouths. No, not ever. Meanwhile, more people are in jobs under this government than ever before. Suck that up.

            • One Anonymous Bloke


              Thank you for illustrating my point.

              • maninthemiddle

                You mean ‘challenging’ your point? Examples? No, I though not.

                • One Anonymous Bloke


                  When you say “suck it up” that presupposes you know how I feel about your irrelevant red herring: putting words in my mouth.

                  You are very very shit at this.

                  • maninthemiddle

                    No, when I say ‘suck it up’ it means I have made a point you are steadfastly refusing to even debate.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Apart from the debate, you witless imbecile, regarding unemployment statistics by population.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      Apart form the point where you quoted raw numbers, instead of per head of population.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Which is precisely what you were doing when you cited raw numbers of jobs in a growing population. I’m glad I could help you understand how flawed that approach is.

                      When we look at jobs per head of population, we see that what was 3% in 2007 is 6% now.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “When we look at jobs per head of population, we see that what was 3% in 2007 is 6% now.”

                      Why 2007? What not at the end of Labour’s tenure? Why not March 2009, when it was virtually the same as today? You are a dishonest little shit.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “The unemployment rate increased by 0.3 percentage points during the March 2009 quarter to reach a six year high of 5.0 percent. The male unemployment rate increased by 0.5 percentage points, to 5.1 percent, while the female unemployment rate rose to 4.9 percent, from 4.8 percent in the December 2008 quarter. The number of unemployed has increased by 7,000 during the March 2009 quarter to reach 115,000. Since the March 2008 quarter, the number of people unemployed has risen by 30,000.

                      The labour force participation rate has decreased by 0.7 percentage points to 68.4 percent during the March 2009 quarter, with falls for both females and males.

                      The number of people employed decreased during the March 2009 quarter, down by 24,000 (1.1 percent) to 2,182,000, with falls in both full-time and part-time employment.”


                      That was what was happening at the end of Labours tenure OAB. Read it and weep.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Why not 2009? Labour left office in 2008, and yet the figures aren’t being used to say something about Labour, sweety.

                      They’re being used to demonstrate that your hateful narrative about unemployed and the working poor and homeless: that their circumstances are of their own choice – is completely without foundation.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Labour left office in 2008…”
                      Yes, and their legacy was an unemployment rate at 5% even after years of record terms of trade, high interest rates, and high inflation rates, AND a huge budget deficit.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Back to repeating zombie lies when you run out of arguments I see.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      Back to owning OAB with the facts.

                    • McFlock

                      mitm adding pwnage to lies. Super.

        • Stuart Munro

          What unmitigated piffle – the only growth is in job ads.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Not according to the chief statistician.

            What our snivelling hypocrite is doing is pretending that the number of people employed is a more useful measure than the percentage of people employed.

            The number of people employed has increased (an inevitable consequence of population growth) while the percentage has decreased.

            In this way, 40% unemployment is ok if we double our population, but only on Planet Snivelling.

            • maninthemiddle

              The number employed is very important. It reflects the number of jobs being created in the economy. When a country is as popular as NZ at the moment (compared to when your lot were running the show) the corresponding rapid population increase makes a nonsense of % unemployment numbers. The economy is doing damn well just keeping the unemployment rate static.

              • Stuart Munro

                Is it growing at over the inflation rate ex immigration? Thought not.

                • maninthemiddle

                  What is the ‘inflation rate ex immigration’? Sounds like a number Grant dreamed up while desperately trying to find something to pin on the government.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    Of course, of course – you lack the essential financial literacy to understand “High immigration is masking poor productivity” and so forth.

                    I’m sure it all sounds like Grant to you – he’s your bete noire – but only because he reminds you of your failures and indiscretions.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      What is the ” inflation rate ex immigration” Stuart? No obfiscation. Explain yourself.

                    • McFlock

                      “explain yourself”.
                      The demands of ignorance: arrogance despite idiocy.

        • reason

          This thread is about the housing crisis mitm ………. do try and keep up.

          It is also worth noting that it is working people as much as anyone else who are being exploited by the housing speculation bubble ……..

          You might want poor children to live in cars and garages but most new zealanders are better than that ……………….

          • maninthemiddle

            “It is also worth noting that it is working people as much as anyone else who are being exploited by the housing speculation bubble”

            What platitudinous bullshit. Working people own houses. Working people are reaping the benefit of the current housing price lift, and they have done for decades.

            “You might want poor children to live in cars and garages but most new zealanders are better than that”
            No, I don’t. But there are many reasons why they are, and the first place they should look is in the mirror, not at the government.

            • Stuart Munro

              Yes indeed – for this is a ‘hands off’ government – it hands off its failures instead of earning success.

              Investors are not working people ‘man-in-the-middle-of-making-an-even-greater-fool-of-himself-than-usual’.

              • maninthemiddle

                Yes, this is a hands off government, as all should be. It isn’t their job to step in to help every person who wants a handout. It is their job to provide a safety net for those genuinely who fall on hard times. Personal responsibility. I doubt you know what it means.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Hands off is great when everything is working but I suppose you haven’t noticed but the world economy is on the ropes, and ours is by no means booming.

                  Personal responsibility

                  Is this where I tell you I chose to work 116 hour weeks, start my own business and migrated when conditions meant I couldn’t run it here any more?

                  No – because you are off topic. The topic is Winz sending people to live in garages. Do you have anything to say about it that you have not already said?

                  • maninthemiddle

                    Hands off is what causes things to work. Governments are tits at running most enterprises. They do best at setting economic conditions and letting the rest of us get on with our lives. Record migration, record low interest rates, low debt, low inflation, record employment, benefit numbers plummeting….

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Governments can run things when they want to.

                      Record migration is no blessing.
                      ‘low’ interest rates but still higher than all our trading partners.
                      debt – $120 billion headed for 150 through sheer incompetence.
                      Low inflation – deflation except for housing – world recession
                      38000 fewer working than under Clark
                      Benefit numbers so false as to be meaningless while families live in cars and garages.

                      This government doesn’t want to run things so they put tits like Nick Smith in charge of things. Just because this government is compromised entirely of thieves and fools does not mean all possible governments are as bad.

                      In fact a few good hands on anti-corruption measures are long, long overdue.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Record migration is no blessing.”
                      Why not? Many of these are returning kiwi’s and/or kiwi’s choosing to stay home. That is a vote of confidence in NZ.

                      “‘low’ interest rates but still higher than all our trading partners.”
                      And they never will be, because of the relative size of our economy. But they are still low by historical standards.

                      “debt – $120 billion headed for 150 through sheer incompetence.”
                      That’s low, and it was a sensible response to Chch and the GFC.

                      “Low inflation – deflation except for housing”

                      “38000 fewer working than under Clark”
                      In March 2009 (just a few months after the Clark administration ended), total employment in NZ was 2,157,000, unemployment was 5.6%. In march 2016, total employment in NZ was 2,409,000, unemployment was 5.9%.

                      There are far more people in employment under national, and the rate of unemployment is virtually unchanged.

                      Benefit numbers so false as to be meaningless while families live in cars and garages.

    • Labour_voter 1.3

      53% of the Roy-Morgan poll respondents don’t think so bro.

  2. Michelle 2

    Agree with you Paul all the more reason why NZers need to get of their bums and vote. Eight years into our brighter future and the light bulb has gone of so it is time for a change in power before our country is totally destroyed by these greedy Tories. We now have an expat billionaire who made his money from countries asset sales telling us the inequalities in our country are because of the teachers and our education system, really! sounds like another Tui ad .

    • gsays 2.1

      Hi Michelle, the question that arises is how to get the folk engaged in the process.

      I don’t’ have a silver bullet.
      I figure enrolling is the biggest barrier/opportunity to get people involved.

      • Michelle 2.1.1

        I go and pick my whanau members up and take them to vote. I also ring them up and remind them to vote. I always say ‘no good moaning if you don’t vote’

        • Siobhan

          Who to vote for tho’.
          You would think maybe Labour, unfortunately I don’t see any game changer policies there. I for one do not consider a $500,000 house as being ‘Affordable’. And Labour, and locally Phil Goff, have no intention of denting the housing ‘Market’.
          The Maori Party as well, take some consolation from the fact of ‘being at the table and looking them in the eye’, but again, the things they have negotiated seem to be more in line with the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff rather than any sort of gains for their people.

          Then again, thanks to the Greens insulation campaign, I’m no longer coughing my lungs out, and thanks to Labour we have a tax credit to help us pay the rent, but again, it hasn’t stopped my rent going up and it still hasn’t stopped families crawling away to live in garages.
          In fact I’m wondering if Labour, the Maori Party and to a lesser degree the Greens aren’t just there to soften the blow as we descend into some sort of Dickensian future.

          • adam

            I’ve been saying for some time the choice between getting your face cut off, or you nose cut off is hardly a choice at all.

            Another analogy if that one too much for people. With national you get cut of at the hip, labour bless them, cut you off at the kness.

            What is worse, some people think I should be grateful for them only cutting part of the body away.

            Sad days we live in, sad days.

            • leftie

              I don’t believe in that meme Labour and the Nats are the same, so why bother? We have to change the government, or there will be nothing left to fight for. Andrew Little is steering Labour in the direction it should be heading. A Labour/ Green coalition government is worth a go. Key and his Nats have had their time, and they blew it.

              • adam

                Sorry massa,

                I’ll be a good massa,

                sorry for raising my voice massa.

                Oh look, I can completley misrepresnt what you are saying too.

                What is worth fighting for, well freedom for starters, liberty, the right to an open a fair society, and wait here is the big one – Socialism. Rather than some watered down neo-liberal wad of hate, you could actually fight for socialism. Then again you could be whinge, moan and misrepresent people.

                Yeah, way easyer to misrepresent people.

                • leftie

                  You don’t need to be a flippant, sarcastic idiot Adam. I guess that means you are not going to vote on principle then, which suits the Nats just fine, while our country crashes and burns.

                  • adam

                    Let me quote from George Carlin.

                    “I don’t vote. Two reasons. First of all it’s meaningless; this country was bought and sold a long time ago. The shit they shovel around every 4 years *pfff* doesn’t mean a fucking thing. Secondly, I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around – they say, ‘If you don’t vote, you have no right to complain’, but where’s the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with.”

                    • leftie

                      Well if you think that justifies maintaining the status quo, whilst giving any possible chance for change the finger, all power to you Adam. We all might as well just give up, curl up and die, there’s no point in living is there?

                    • adam

                      You really have given up on the thinking today leftie. Where have I said give up? Where have I said to do nothing? Your words not mine.

                      Classic misrepresentation from you, what next, the “go google it’ response?

                      I’m saying quite simply, do somthing more than support the system in a tired repetitive mannor.

                      Try thinking more, trying being more active, actually think what a world may look like outside a liberal democracy corrupted by money.

                      But if you think the only solution is your way, and to condem everyone else who even points out that there is systemic failure.

                      Why are you even bothering to argue with me?

                      Go smug, it works for all the others who are happy to think it OK to follow this same loonacy over and over.

                    • Reddelision

                      Good point

                    • leftie

                      Rubbish, and I’m not the one sounding smug Adam. This is the system we have got to work with at the moment. I never said there wasn’t a system failure, but nothing is going to change by refusing to take part in it. There is no “my way.” I’m using the voting system we have to try and vote out the Nats. What do you suggest people do? Low voter turn out keeps the Nats in power.

                    • McFlock

                      I respectfully disagree with Carlin on that one.

                      If the system is corrupt, vote for someone who’ll change it. Whether you go for incremental change or a full 100-days restructuring, just vote.

                      Everyone’s entitled to complain, but the only people who can legitimatly say “don’t blame me” are the ones who actually tried to change things. Not jawed about it, but used every bit of power they had, including the often-futile but so-crazy-it-just-might-work miniscule power of the vote. The only reason we have it is because of people who used all their power to give us this little bit more. We should use all our power to give our descendents a bit more again.

                      That having been said, anyone who votes for a wingnut deserves what they get 👿

                    • Hanswurst

                      There is nothing preventing one from being an activist and voting.

          • leftie

            So in your mind, are you thinking you would rather retain the status quo with the Nats Siobhan?

            Not including the Maori party, because, imo, a vote for the Maori Party is a vote for National, I think all of the opposition parties have loads more to offer Kiwis, than the current sell out, got nothing, self serving Key regime. Labour’s big housing build package, for example, is most certainly worth voting for, it will bring down house prices and rents.

            From TDB, this what Laila Harre had to say, “What I think with Labour’s announcements in the weekend which was so important it may well start to drive the behaviour itself, I mean I’ve certainly said to people I know in that house buying generation that rather than work longer hours to pay an excessively high mortgage and put their deposit out there in an overheated market that they would be better to invest their time and any additional money in helping Labour to change the government it’s a far better investment for them make in getting their first home than anything else.“

            <a href="http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/16/waatea-5th-estate-friday-political-wrap/

            • Siobhan


              Maybe things need to hit rock bottom before they can improve. The lives of the average American and the average Briton, the dearly beloved middle class needed to be well and truly squeezed before they will consider voting for change. And its the same here.

              I will not vote for a ‘nice’ version of the situation we have now.

              Laila Harre, and I admire her more than anyone with a political profile in NZ, but really I do not see her ‘wish’ coming true.
              If I were in the UK I would put my money and time into supporting Corbyn, because he is presenting a clear and committed message. The day any leader of the Labour Party wears the label (Democratic) Socialist I shall get out there and vote. I suspect the average Labour Party member would consider their legal options if the word Socialism was ever attached to their public profile.
              And then you have the Stuart Nash group. Stuart Nash, the man who has no shame claiming its all about winning…
              “Let’s be clear about one thing: politics is about winning. There is no such thing as a ‘glorious defeat’, leaders who lose are not, as some may believe, ‘martyrs to the cause’, and ‘coming second but maintaining our principles’ is a ludicrous proposition.” http://thedailyblog.co.nz/category/bloggers/stuart-nash/

              Did you get that?… ‘coming second but maintaining our principles’ is a ludicrous proposition?

              I cannot vote these people in. It’s all very Third Way, and look how that works out.

              • leftie

                I think for many Kiwis things have already hit rock bottom Siobhan. Sad that you want more to suffer the same fate, when improvement can be made now by changing the government.
                So what? I think your Stuart Nash reason for wanting the Nats to remain in power is quite weak and pathetic. He’s not ‘these people” he’s just one person, and is not the whole party.

                BTW, Laila Harre didn’t make a “wish” she offered reasoned, logical and practical advice.

                • Siobhan

                  Actually what I want is for my children and grandchildren to live in a better world. But I do not see any policy that Labour is proposing that will mark a U turn. They are offering an ‘easing’. As things get worse, which they will, it may inspire more radical action from my children and grandchildren, THEN we will have change.
                  The current Labour voters are Home owners enjoying unprecedented capital gains, which they use to visit their grandchildren in Australia. Sure, they probably feel bad about people living in cars…but they are not going to vote for anything that hits them in the pocket. And I’m sorry, but that’s what we need.

                  • leftie

                    Your assumption that “the current Labour voters are Home owners enjoying unprecedented capital gains, which they use to visit their grandchildren in Australia’ is false and untrue, but it is most certainly true of National and it’s supporters, many of which are recent arrivals.
                    Your children and grandchildren won’t live in a better world where the Nats rule. key’s brighter future that you want to retain, means they will be powerless to make change like the “people living in cars” and be tenants in their own country. Of course you do not see any policy that Labour is proposing that will mark a U turn, despite the fact that Labour’s housing plan, far from being just “easing” as you put it, it would be a start to do just that. You have made your right wing position clear in that regard. Do you feel bad about your fellow citizens forced to live on the streets, in cars and garages? Labour is not the only opposition party. It’s not FPP it’s MMP. What about the other opposition parties like the Greens and NZFirst?

                    • Chuck

                      Leftie how on earth can you say – “Your assumption that “the current Labour voters are Home owners enjoying unprecedented capital gains’ is false and untrue”

                      With current NZ house ownership rate of approx. 64% you are just making sh*t up!

                      If they were all Nat voters then your dream of a Lab/Gr government is in tatters.

                    • leftie

                      Then why are the Nats and it’s supporters like you in a state of panic? Who owns most homes in New Zealand Chuck? Not the average Kiwi.

                    • McFlock

                      Chuck, it’s one of them venn diagram opportunities.

                      Take your time.

                    • Chuck

                      “Who owns most homes in New Zealand Chuck? Not the average Kiwi.”

                      Well yes, most homes in NZ are owned by Mr & Mrs average kiwi.

                      “Then why are the Nats and it’s supporters like you in a state of panic?”

                      No panic here leftie, its all in your head 🙂

                      Sorry McFlock, venn diagram will have to wait.

                    • Siobhan


                      Last week we had the incredible spectacle of Labour general secretary Tim Barnett arguing for the government to withhold family tax credits and Working for Families payments from people who are not enrolled to vote.
                      “It’s the bloody voters – useless bastards living in Mangere who can’t be bothered to enrol and get to the polling booth and tick Labour – cut their benefits, slash their car tyres, pee in their letterboxes”

                      If I’m more right wing than these people then I’m not sure what Right wing means.

                      I’ll get back to you on NZ First.

                    • lprent []

                      Tim hasn’t been gensec of the NZLP for years.

                    • leftie

                      Why do you keep harking back to the past Siobhan? Tim Barnett is gone, Andrew Kirton Labour’s general secretary now. And I don’t think everyone agreed with John Minto’s take on it. You didn’t answer the question. What about voting for the Greens, and Mana then? They are other alternative options to support in our MMP system. Why do you have to get back about NZFirst?

                    • leftie

                      rofl… Prove it Chuck.

                    • Adrian Thornton

                      Why do you keep harking back to the past Siobhan? Tim Barnett is gone….What, January 2016 sooo long ago?? That’s the problem with modern politics, people have no ‘historical’ perspective, even if it means looking back a year. It’s all about vague promises of how things will be better…trust us.

              • “The day any leader of the Labour Party wears the label (Democratic) Socialist I shall get out there and vote.”

                While it’s great that we’ve got your vote, Siobhan, we need your energy and activism, too.

                The Labour Party accepts the following democratic socialist principles’:

                All political authority comes from the people by democratic means including universal suffrage, regular and free elections with a secret ballot.

                The natural resources of New Zealand belong to all the people and these resources, and in particular non-renewable resources, should be managed for the benefit of all, including future generations.

                All people should have equal access to all social, economic, cultural, political and legal spheres, regardless of wealth or social position, and continuing participation in the democratic process.

                Co-operation, rather than competition, should be the main governing factor in economic relations, in order that a greater amount and a just distribution of wealth can be ensured.

                All people are entitled to dignity, self-respect and the opportunity to work.

                All people, either individually or in groups, may own wealth or property for their own use, but in any conflict of interest people are always more important than property and the state must ensure a just distribution of wealth.

                The Treaty of Waitangi is the founding document of New Zealand and that the Treaty should be honoured in government, society and the family.

                Peace and social justice should be promoted throughout the world by international co-operation and mutual respect.

                The same basic human rights, protected by the State, apply to all people, regardless of race, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity, age, religious faith, political belief or disability.

                • adam

                  Yes and the constitution of the former Soviet Union looked good on paper too.

                  • locus

                    Adam, Labour’s ideals and aspirations are written down because that’s the first step towards communicating them, and hoping that others who believe these things will join your cause.

                    At a time when we have a government sneering at these values, that has destroyed the chance of the next generation to own their home, is sanctioning our poorest to live in garages, in overcrowded rooms, and paying for greedy profiteering landlords ….. then I believe it’s even more important to have a yardstick of democratic socialist principles, and to use these to challenge the government.

                    The point of this post is however is to further highlight the urgent need for a change in government and to welcome Labour’s housing policy which aims to redress some of the dreadful effects of this PM’s ideological and systematic sale of state homes, and the current government’s failure to control a crazy spiralling property market –

                    • adam

                      You not feeling very secure there locus?

                      I mean do we really need more homilies from another labour party drudge?

                      Too soon?

                      But seriously, the labour party have a website where they can push their propaganda down our throat.

                      My point is the labour party have had a similar set of ideological talking points for some time, and still we have neoliberalism.

                    • locus

                      adam- imo your ad hom negativity in response to my comment is an example of what is draining away many open minded NZers support from socialist thinking and values.

                      Ask yourself why neoliberalism is thriving and rolling all over us in New Zealand. Is it the current populist government that’s been kicking this abhorrent ideolology along for 8 long years…. and maybe 4 more? Or is it in your words: the “labour party push[ing] their propaganda down our throat?”

                      As for your comment that I’m a “labour party drudge” – does this make for a meaningful dicussion between both of us who I believe share strong socialist values? If I responded in kind what would you do? Would you pour concrete around the pigeonhole you’ve invented for me and make a point of opposing anything I said in the future?

                      As this post is about housing policy, here’s a question: have you really looked at the entire Labour policy on housing and then thought further about how it will work through to reduce the overall price of houses to make them more affordable? – Because it will.

                      I’m all ears for your suggestions on an alternative housing policy and how you would like to make it happen.

                      Alternatively you could just forget Labour and its values – as these may not be for you? Maybe you should find another party that espouses your ideology, help it get 5% and then we can both be happy.

                    • adam

                      You missed my line about another homily.

                      If you don’t like the fact that labour is part of the problem – do something about it.

                      I’ve never voted for them so I think I’m rather entitled to call them the bastions of BS that they are.

                      Because if labour are socialist, then Joe Stalin was a nice guy.

                      As a socialist you want people to own houses, and make it more affordable. Personally as a socialist I want people housed and an end to property ownership.

                      My point stands, words mean nothing, actions do, and yeah I read the labour policy on housing, and I offered a mild criticism of it, much in line with Salvation Armies criticism of it at the time of release.

                      I did not at the time, highlight the fact it appeals more to those already on the property ladder. This is in line with past actions of labour, with them doing nothing more than to solidify the continued shift to the centre.

                      So let me leave you with some paraphrased George Carlin “Bugger the centre”

                    • locus

                      I am fortunate enough to live in an apartment in a city where 60% of homes are state rentals, and all rental properties are subject to rent controls, strict insulation standards, annual inspections of heating systems safety and operability. Private landlords moan about it but are still happy to rent rather than sell because they are still making a profit.

                      I can see first hand how much difference it makes to the whole society if everyone has a dry, warm, safe home, and even those on a minimum wage still have 70% of their pay left after paying rent. My electricity and heating bills are half what I paid in NZ yet seasonally it’s much colder/hotter here.

                      From discussions with friends and bloggers in NZ who define themselves as centre right and who are comfortable under this Nat government, most would regard the state housing policies here as approaching communist or dictatorial.

                      Since 49% of NZers currently support this PM and his laissez-faire ‘low state accountability for society’ as the way forward for NZ, the Left are going to have to work much harder to show how our vision of the future protects them as well as the increasing number of poor and disadvantaged people in NZ.

                      It’s not really going to work if we say “bugger the centre.”

                      Incidentally, I don’t live in N.Korea or in Venezuela which ‘centre right’ bloggers in NZ frequently use to whip up fear and hatred of socialist ideas. I live in Austria, a small country that has succeeded economically despite having a socialist party (SPO) that has played a major part in all governments since WW2. A country that was bombed and broken in the 50s, had to pay war reparations, and which has fewer natural resources than NZ and not much greater population.

                      What personally worries me a lot about the direction NZ is headed is that there is a widespread attitude of letting government get away with disastrous mismanagement of society. And of growing concern is how unacceptable it seems to be to talk politics openly.

                    • Pat

                      @ locus
                      “As this post is about housing policy, here’s a question: have you really looked at the entire Labour policy on housing and then thought further about how it will work through to reduce the overall price of houses to make them more affordable? – Because it will.”

                      indeed it will….and Labour should front foot that. They trip themselves up trying to pretend otherwise.

                      And heres a model…

                      “I am fortunate enough to live in an apartment in a city where 60% of homes are state rentals, and all rental properties are subject to rent controls, strict insulation standards, annual inspections of heating systems safety and operability. Private landlords moan about it but are still happy to rent rather than sell because they are still making a profit.

                      I can see first hand how much difference it makes to the whole society if everyone has a dry, warm, safe home, and even those on a minimum wage still have 70% of their pay left after paying rent. My electricity and heating bills are half what I paid in NZ yet seasonally it’s much colder/hotter here.”

                      and this unsaleable to a majority of the electorate?

                • b waghorn

                  “The natural resources of New Zealand belong to all the people and these resources, and in particular non-renewable resources, should be managed for the benefit of all, including future generations.”

                  Why aren’t the renewable resources to be managed for all of our benefits. Is it because labour doesn’t want to upset the share holders.?

                  • McFlock

                    “and in particular” does not mean “only”.

                    The renewable resources are also to be managed to the benefit of all, but particular care needs to made on non-renewables because once they’re gone they’ll never return.

                    If they screw up a wind generation contract, they can fix it when the current one expires.
                    If they screw up a mining contract, that stuff is permanently gone. Higher penalty for failure.

                • Siobhan

                  ““The day any leader of the Labour Party wears the label (Democratic) Socialist I shall get out there and vote.”

                  While it’s great that we’ve got your vote, Siobhan,”

                  So Andrew Little calls himself a Democratic Socialist??

                  I’ll believe you for now but I need to see where and when he has actually said this. And I don’t mean he has it printed on his undershirt.
                  I mean the bit where he stands up and says ‘I am a Democratic Socialist’.

                  • Well, leaving aside that policies are more important than leaders, I think you’ll find that Andrew is the most left wing leader we’ve had since Helen Clark. I suspect he’d probably not even need the qualifier of ‘democratic’ socialist.

                    So when are you joining up, Siobhan? We need your help.

          • Michelle

            And there lies the problem in NZ Siobhan too many NZers seem happy to stick with the status quo . Too many people are happy with there lot and too many people vote for themselves and not what is best for our country. We
            (our country and our people ) were promised a brighter future along with a whole lot of other promises they have not come to fruition. Too many NZers believed in our PM and everything he has said because he is rich and successful. Too many NZers are politically naïve and have a shall be right attitude. Too many NZers vote on personality and not policy. Too many NZers have become so shallow they vote by what a person looks like and how they dress. And finally too many NZers believe our bullshert right wing bias media.

      • Macro 2.1.2

        the question that arises is how to get the folk engaged in the process.

        Because of this:

        • gsays

          cheers macro, i never tire of chomsky, a rare hero.

          adam curtis and the century of the self resonates through what chomsky says.

          so how to get folk to limit the influence of their tele, radio and internet?

  3. Sabine 3

    this is when Ideology takes over common sense. The free market will provide damn it and if it is only garages and other hovels so be it. Fear not poor person St. Bennett, St. Smith, His Holyness John Key and the holy beancounter Bill English will bring peace and joy to the true believer, the great unwashed heathens however can get fucked.

    • Reddelusion 3.1

      Yes dear

      • Sabine 3.1.1

        why you think that pure ideology is not a danger? That when we take it at its purest and refuse to ‘manage’ public demand on the grounds that the market will fix it is almost a religious believe. The same can be said of the other extreme communism for example.

        Both ideas have their merits. But when you let it run unfettered it becomes doctrine and those that administer the doctrine become the High Priests of the Realm.

        And currently those that administer the Doctrine are
        Ms. Bennett Minister of Social Development – WINZ paying bond for people to share garages as living spaces even if those garages are not considered human dwellings. The market has provided!

        Mr Nick Smith – Minster of something, introducing buildings standard of the 1970’s cause really…..the Market doth provide.
        Mr. Bill English – bean counter and Minister of HNZ – the state can not and should not provide – lets knock down state houses and the Market doth provide – Garages and single rooms for families. Also Dividend from HNZ thats almost like tithing 🙂 10% of everything needs to go to the consolidated fund. As for building new state houses – nah, the state can’t do that but the Market doth provide garages and single rooms for families.
        Mr. John Key – can’t remember anything, does not know where he was and what he did when stuff happened, i am just there to wear nice robes and wave and drink beer with people. 🙂 But then the Market doth provide garages and single rooms for families.

        All these mantras coming from these few people, and if you listen to any interview with any one of them they are actually reciting the same Mantra over and over and it does seem that these people believe fervently from the bottom of their tummies, hearts and souls that the Market doth provide garages and single bedrooms for families. And that this is good, and how it should be.
        That is almost religious, just as extreme communism, socialism, libertarianism is. IF one puts doctrine and ideology ahead of facts one is vested in “believe” and not facts.

        so what was it that you were saying Dear?

        • Reddelusion

          Yes dear

          • Paul

            Defending a government that does not house its citizens.

            • Sabine

              as i said. Religion is as religion does.
              it my be Jeezus and the almighty or it is Mammoth and the golden cow.

              All demand offerings. 🙂

            • Sabine

              as i said. Religion is as religion does.
              it my be Jeezus and the almighty or it is Mammon and the golden cow.

              All demand offerings. 🙂 some want first borns others just want money.

              What i like about all of this is how these geezers pretend that it will never never ever occur to them. No hardship will befall them, no sickness will bend them, no trauma will affect them. No God must love them today as they are doing good today…tomorrow is another day and i am not allowed to think about that. And their children? Ahhh shucks, they are on their own, after all when history comes around to judge them most likely they are already dead and it won’t matter to them.

              Oh father oh father, why have you forsaken me?

              Cause frankly son, i was too busy not giving a shit.

              • Reddelision

                Firstly how do you know I have not been there but have more a stoic or epicurean view to life in general ( is this wrong) Likewise I have no problem with safety nets just sense of entitlement which taken to far results in us all sitting around doing nothing, moaning n blogs and taking no responsibility at all , My intrigue with the likes of Paul and your postings is that you makes out NZ is some kind of capitalist hell hole which it is patently not with the level of government intervention and income redistribution. Above is couple with the hilarity of how you personalise all your frustrations through honest John. NZ has its issues as all counties and societies do however the likes of Paul and yourself over cook it to the absurd

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  In 1984, child poverty was ~14%. Now it’s ~28%, Do you give a fuck? You’re too consumed by tetrapyloctomy.

                  “I won’t have that!” yelled Reddelision (sic), “it’s a shit-hole, not a hell-hole!”

                  Whatevs, bud.

                  • srylands

                    That is just nuts.

                    Families with children are so much better off today than 30 years ago. (The big exception is the cost of housing but we have chosen that as a society.)

                    Cars, appliances, children’s clothing, boats, overseas holidays, games and toys, books, music.

                    I don’t know how old you are but think about what children have now compared to what you had as a kid. Do you think kids today would swap places for a seat in 1984 New Zealand?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Yawn. Are you trying to attract even more contempt than you already do, S Rylands?

                      As you very well know, the line is drawn below 60% of the median wage. Not to mention (as documented by those well known lefty communists at The Lancet) infectious diseases. And homelessness. And home ownership.

                      Not to mention useless incompetent “advisers” sucking on the public teat.

                  • Redelusion

                    Plain English please OAB, big words don’t impress anybody barring yourself

            • Maninthemiddle

              Since when was it the governments job to house its citizens? That’s our job as citizens, surely?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                You couldn’t do the job even if you gave a shit.

              • framu

                considering the govt are put there by us, work for us and havent outright scraped state housing – but are instead trying to remove it from their books via a fair amount or PR and rhetoric – what do you think the public mood is on that?

                unless your going to argue that what the public wants the govt to do doesnt set what the govts job description is

                • maninthemiddle

                  The government is indeed of us, for us and by us. That doesn’t mean you get to live off the public teat cradle to grave.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    That’s exactly what you do, you fucking ingrate. Who built this nation? It wasn’t selfish trash like you, who resent paying their taxes.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Who built this nation?”

                      Maori. Immigrants. Then first, second and third generation NZ’ers. People who worked hard to break the county in and then enable it’s prosperity. Not bludgers. Not people who choose a lifetime of dependency. They just leave more of the heavy lifting to the rest of us.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Back to hating on your peers again, hate boy.

                    • maninthemiddle

                      I have the fortunate disposition of not hating anyone. Pity, yes. Empathy, yes.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      You can abuse people and call them bludgers or you can claim to have empathy for them.

                      So we can add hypocrite to hateful.

              • Stuart Munro

                The government’s job is whatever we the citizens tell it to do.

                Since these suppurating masses of corrupting filth have decided to wreck the housing market for personal gain, they can bloody fix it.

                Or, no parliamentary super. Limited terms. A prosecition authority investigating financial gains in office and lengthy prison sentences. Fuck ’em.

            • srylands

              And there is your problem.

              Throughout my life it has never crossed my mind that the Government had a responsibility to house me, or anyone. Individuals are responsible for making their own housing decisions.

              The problem we have in New Zealand is terrible policy settings that are causing high house price inflation. These problems are now well known.




              I don’t see anyone here calling for the Government to urgently implement the recommendations in these reports. Why not?

              • McFlock

                Actually, your complete unfamiliarity with the concepts of “community” or “society” is your problem, not ours.

                The only “problem” that causes us is the moderate inconvenience we experience from your inability to fuck off to any failed state that is the logical outcome of your warped worldview.

                I don’t begrudge you the benefits this society seems to have granted you, but I do begrudge your hypocrisy in taking the benefits of a nation that you abhor, and I despise your complaints that it should be as morally vacuous as you are.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  I wish I’d said that 🙂

                • Paul

                  Srylands shared a borderline psychopathic comment.

                  Definition of society

                  a highly structured system of human organization for large-scale community living that normally furnishes protection, continuity, security, and a national identity for its members.

                  Isn’t Somalia the libertarian’s dream society?
                  He should head there.

                • maninthemiddle

                  The concepts of community and individual repsonsibility go hand in hand. I consider it my community repsonsibility to provide adequately for my family. The problem is the number of people in NZ who drag their communities down by depending for their livelihood on the rest of us.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Unemployment is caused by welfare, according to you. Now you’re hating on people for it again.

                    Why do you tell so many lies?

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Unemployment is caused by welfare, according to you. ”

                      Liar. Welfare does, however, encourage indolence in certain people.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Meanwhile, on Earth, 20 July 2016 at 10:47 am, in answer to the question: Perhaps you can explain to me why it is is in times of full employment that people choose to work, but in time of unemployment, as we have with over 5% (even calculating it as this government does who is actually employed), then we get these shirkers? a hateful lying right wing parrot said:

                      The application of welfarism in NZ has promoted these attitudes…

                  • McFlock

                    It took four days, and that’s the best you could come up with?

                    Why shouldn’t your family support themselves? Do you loan your kids the money it requires to raise them, to be paid back when they reach an earning age?

                    • maninthemiddle

                      “Why shouldn’t your family support themselves?”
                      They should, as should all families.

                      ” Do you loan your kids the money it requires to raise them, to be paid back when they reach an earning age?”

                      Now are you going to actually address what I wrote?

                    • McFlock

                      Seems your kids are bringing the family down by depending for their livelihood on you.

                    • Maybe the application of family life in NZ has promoted these attitudes and encouraged indolence in his family members?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Aren’t you talented and clever to have such good fortune.

                Has it ever crossed your mind, S Rylands, that if societies were made of model citizens with good fortune, there’d be no need for policing let alone social housing?

                We have lots of models for societies to choose from, you see, lots of examples so that we can measure different political approaches by outcomes, by comparing one country with another, one government with the next.

                Your policies have shit outcomes. Get out of the way.

              • framu

                “I don’t see anyone here calling for the Government to urgently implement the recommendations in these reports. Why not?”

                the productivity commission is a “jobs for mates” that was created for don brash – a man who has openly stated that he believes in lying to get your way

                whats weird is that you would trust him

              • Stuart Munro

                People expect to be able to find housing to raise their children in. “Entitled”

                Investors expect to be allowed to obtain unearned wealth while folk go homeless. “Entitled”

                The latter is less worthy – but under a worthless corrupt government like Key’s (or Clark’s) they may be allowed to prosper. Briefly.

    • adam 3.2

      Sabine your religious attacks latley are getting increasingly boorish, and prove how much of an out of touch dullard you have become.

      To equate the fath community with the Tories at every turn, just proves how shallow and vacuous your thought process have become.

      How about you go back to your hate factory, wash yourself with some more of you idiotic rants, then take a long hard look at what you have become.

      • Sabine 3.2.1

        I don’t equate ‘faith’ with the National Party of NZ i equate the absolute believe in the superiority of teh ‘free market’ to be the ‘faith of the National Party stooges.’ And that is what i consider Mrs. Bennett, Mr. Nick Smith, Mr. Bill English, Mr. John Key and all the other of the current led National Party Government do nothing pencilpushers.

        It really is so much more comforting to be told that one is rich because they are righteous instead of being told that one is rich due to sheer luck and birth right and that one should feed the hungry, house the homeless, and visit the brother and sister in prison is kind of drab and weary. I get that, it still does not change the fact taht the National Party and many many of its supporters do not want to feed the hungry, do not want to house the homeless and do not want to visit the brother and sister in prison, cause they must’ave’have brought it upon themselves. So that nice Mr. English may go to Church on Sunday but he for sure has no issue fucking over the country again and again. But then, on saturday he goes to confession, on sunday he goes to church and on monday he starts sinning again.

        I have had a good look at me, and i am quite happy what i have become sofar and i am looking forward to turning into a nice crone over the years. Thanks.

        • adam

          I’m Catholic, Ad is Catholic. We might be frowned on by some within the church by our liberal view on sexuality. Me I’m a huge fan of women having control over their own women’s bodies. Am I a hypocrite for disagreeing with the Pope on these issues. Technically, yes.

          So guess what, having a go Bill English for what appears to be a question of hypocrisy from you, is at best – a shallow argument. Catholics are always going to have some sort of hypocrisy going on. Unless your Mel Gibson, then you get to be a smug anti-semite with it.

          My problem with your arguments Sabine, is on the whole they look like petty attacks on the church. You seem to constantly mix up an attack on religion with an attack on national. You say you have not, so I invite you to go back and read what you have written.

          Here something for you. Insult the church, and church goers will flock to national. Because they (national) don’t insult the faith community.

          • Sabine

            i am roman catholic, i lived for nine years in a roman catholic convent. I don’t care if someone goes national, labour, or mana. It is their choice. One vote one person.

            What i do care about is people living in garages and some do gooders say its because they made wrong choices.
            I do care about kids living in cars and it must be because their parents made bad choices.
            I do care about people not getting the medical attention they need because our self confessed christian do gooders in parliament cutting services cause funds are not there.
            I do care about our elderlies not getting a decent meal a day because our self professed christians in parliament cutting the services.

            You see, i don’t care if you need me and my opinion to excuse your vote for National. Seriously what ever floats your boat.

            • adam

              Sabine help me out here, I call you on some anti-religious rant which at best undercuts you arguments, and at worst is just re-enforces right wing stereotypes of the left being anti religion and communism by stealth.

              Christians have opposed other christians for generations. Just because some politician say they are christian does not mean they are one or will act like one. I’m not opposed to your world view, I like what you say. Otherwise I would not bother responding.

              I’m saying – don’t attack the faith communities. If you want this government gone, and a more humane one in it’s place. Many many people from the faith community are on side, and those who are not well they are muppets anyway.

              Please note I’d never vote Tory, most are backwards looking, leaving aside the bad hair cuts, they have odd views about poor people. Lets not start about how they feel about women, gays, lesbians, transgenders, Maori, Pasifika, you get my point. I agree when people hide behind so called christian values to justify their selfish narcissism it can be very tough. But who cares, they the ones who have to justify themselves and in the end God, why they turned away from the gospels and trod on the poor.

          • reason

            National get the religious vote by bribing them with more money to their religious schools …….

            They’ve started early electioneering early on their next round of bribe money … http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/education/81650378/private-school-funding-proposal-unpopular-with-state-educators

  4. miravox 4

    Aside from the rotten policy settings that have reduced housing to a get rich quick scheme and the job of WINZ to provide a safety net for people in need being reduced to that of protector of the public purse from people in need, WINZ can’t even fulfil that diminished function.

    It’s allowed itself to be defrauded by property profiteers, and while preaching personal responsibility to the disempowered the powers that be in the organisation are guilty of exactly that by handing over taxpayer dollars to pay for substandard and unconsented properties.

  5. mary_a 5

    This is beyond disgraceful. To think NZ once led the world in social reform. Our huge fall from this position is shameful!

    During its term of office, Government has failed sociey’s most vulnerable, an issue I hope it will be judged on next year when the election comes around!

  6. Chuck 6

    “A South Auckland property manager, Debbie Widharni Iskandar, rented garages to families for up to $400 a week.”

    However in the news article on the link AR provided it seems Iskandar is not a property manager.

    “Agency director Kiri Barfoot says Iskandar is the tenant in the house, and sub-letting the property is a breach of her tenancy agreement.”

    Any property company or if indeed W&I are paying bonds and sending people to illegal sleep outs…those managers making the decisions need to answer some hard questions.

    Back in the 90’s my work took me out to South Auckland, almost every garage I saw had beds in them. Some kitchens…this is not new folks. Extended families = lots of beds required.

    What properly is though, its now become big business for tenants / landlords to rent out garages/ sleep outs to other families.

    • Sabine 6.1

      i migrated into NZ in 98, and that was the first time in my life i saw people live in Garages and articles about it in the NZ Herald. I remember one story about a mother and her kids checking for rodents every night before going to be with traps all over the garage.

      Funny, that was during the Shipley Years. National again.

      And i am sure some would say who needs kitchens, running water, and indoor plumbing. Bad choices is what got them there, and they can only have from the free market what they can pay for.

      I do hope that that women is charged, that the Winz staff that provided the bonds will loose their jobs, that the copper that rented his un-consented garage will have to re-fund any rent money collected and that Barfoot and Thompson may check their tenants a bit better.

  7. Corvidae 7

    This is a straw man; an (inept) attempt to blame the housing crisis on third parties.

    Yes, there are always those who take advantage in any situation but that is what ‘the market’ is all about. Note that the criticism doesn’t extend to this ‘free market’ that allows, nay encourages, nay rewards such practices. Is not the economic philosophy one of supply and demand? And in all honesty, wouldn’t you and your kids rather live in a garage without internal plumbing than in your car?

    Meanwhile we conveniently (for the government) ignore the reason people can charge what they like for whatever they offer and there are people with no power and therefore no choice. Truth it this is a symptom of the society that this government has created; one where ‘these people’ have to sell their lives just to have one. Until we change the system, or even just the policy of benefiting only the ruch, this is only another symptom (if one that still needs addressing).

    • save nz 7.1

      +1 Corvidae
      On one of the exposes, it looks like Debbie Iksander is the tenant in the property who is subletting the garage to others for ridiculous rates.

      The property manager is apparently Barfoot & Thompson. Apparently anyone can call themselves a property manager! Rental agents should have to be licensed and there should be a disciplinary and complaints you can do. Personally I hate property managers.

      The real issue, I think is the governments policy of selling social housing, their inability to regulate property managers and their ridiculous privatisation and immigration and welfare policies that are driving people into $2000 motel rooms and $500 garages.

      But, it is better to be in a garage than homeless! The whole saga on housing just keeps getting worse and worse.

      Bottom line is that there are too many people in Auckland for the amount of houses. Wages are too low for most Kiwis to afford the rents and mortgages. Developers are not building affordable houses but large houses for richer people. In doing so, they are often demolishing more affordable houses. The are lowering the supply daily of affordable houses so that people now live in garages with 3 ‘chains’ of command on the tenancy – the current tenant who calls herself a property manager, Barfoot the property manager, and the landlord who’s paying Barfoot to manage the property. Then there is the tax payers who are subsidising the accommodation supplements on the tenancy. Does this sound like free market efficiency?

      Surely it is easier, safer and more cost effective to just have renovated that state house???

      Housing NZ are apparently in surplus.

      But never let ideology get in the way of common sense.

      I’m personally a bit leery about the hysteria about non permitted accommodation. I remember on story about a Northland grandmother up north whose house was damaged by floods and she was bringing up her grandkids there in a garage or something like that. The council were making things hard for her and wanting her to move into rental accomodation. Any way to my mind, Converting her garage or shed was better than renting because she could then spend her available finances on something that she could control and was getting solar on and so forth. To my mind the council are part of the problem of affordable housing, because they will not permit more affordable housing or they charge a fortune for doing so. Remember the Yurt that they prosecuted over in Waiheke – they care about their fees, not about people having the right to live the way they want and trying to make housing affordable.

  8. adam 9

    Oh look the far right response is in.

    Attack on a personal level anyone who talks about the issue.

    Seems like Minister Bennett has set the tone with her usual skill set, in the gutter…

  9. Anno1701 10

    Turrns out the woman in questions sister in law is a winz manager…

    very sus….

    • leftie 10.1

      Yes very Anno1701, why am I so NOT surprised.

    • Sabine 10.2

      the ‘property managers’ sister works at winz? Can both of these ladies be done for fraud?

      • Anno1701 10.2.1

        ” Can both of these ladies be done for fraud?”

        in this country ? with its culture of cronyism, nepotism and cover up ? your fooling yourself

        we dont have a justice system in this country , its a joke..

        weather we like to admit it to our selves, NZ is rotten & it stinks …

    • gsays 10.3

      hi anno, checkpoint on rnz summed it up this evening:
      winz are depositing $ into landlords accounts without doing any checks or inspections.

      another great day for all the greedy folk in this property port-folio paradise.

      • Craig H 10.3.1

        Sweet Jesus save us from ourselves :(…

        Money into a beneficiary’s account? Verification, proof of address, IRD number and bank account, and possibly money being put onto charge cards. Forms out the wazoo and appointments galore…

        Money into a landlord’s account? Sweet as, no need to check…

        • Anno1701

          “Money into a beneficiary’s account? Verification, proof of address, IRD number and bank account, and possibly money being put onto charge cards. Forms out the wazoo and appointments galore…”

          oh and dont forget they will have to pay it all back !

  10. Jenny 11

    It’s easy as…


    A. Government privatise the State House asset.


    B. WINZ find a way to screw people without money, to subsidise moteliers.


    C. WINZ pimping for the slumlords.


    A B C
    1 2 3
    Do Re Mi
    A B C, 1 2 3

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