Daily review 11/03/2022

47 comments on “Daily review 11/03/2022 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   11 March 2022 at 5:57 pm

   Overview of the current situation: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/political-parties-weigh-in-on-m-ori-co-governance-model-for-three-waters.html

   It features a geographical map of the proposed regional governance structure.

   Under the Three Waters model, local councils will remain the owners of their water assets but they will not have control over them. Their influence will be via regional representative groups (RRGs) – 50 percent council members and 50 percent iwi.

   In effect, this is implementation of the co-governance principle evident in Te Tiriti .

   Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi has warned Three Waters could become the next foreshore and seabed issue, referring to 2004 when Māori protested against proposed legislation to vest ownership of New Zealand's foreshore and seabed in the Crown.

   "If you're not going to recognise the Māori proprietary rights to water, and acknowledge the many Treaty claims for freshwater, and the buying and the shipping of water off Aotearoa and overseas, it's going to end terribly and this could actually be the foreshore and seabed issue for this Government."

   ACT wants the co-governance model dropped.

   Its leader expressed this view:

   "I think the idea that we are proactively trying to introduce different sets of political rights for people based on ancestry has got to be one of the most backwards steps any country can take."

   Private property rights are based on English ancestry, of course. Seymour is pretending he's too ignorant to be aware of that. Otoh he could be pretending that he knows, but feels it's better to not admit it and front as a hypocrite instead.

   Three Waters spokesperson Eugenie Sage has stressed the importance of both public ownership and meaningful iwi Māori involvement in the governance of the new Three Waters entities.

   Sounds like the Greens are on board in principle, eh?

   The working group released its advice earlier this week and the main recommendation was a public shareholding structure to maintain public ownership of water assets.

   "Now I think is the time for further engagement and we hope the Government will seriously engage with the recommendations and also work with Auckland and Mayor Goff and the issues raised there around Watercare," said Sage from the Greens.

   Asked if Auckland could be left out of the arrangement, Sage said: "That is one model but the issue is how you ensure there is iwi co-governance, which you don't have in Auckland Council at the moment, and I think that's one of the key issues that is needed further discussion on".
   • bjoneskiwi 1.1

     11 March 2022 at 6:28 pm

     And there goes another five points, I can hear ACT whistling already!

     …how you ensure there is iwi co-governance…
     • Dennis Frank 1.1.1

       11 March 2022 at 7:17 pm

       Get real. ACT has been dropping in the polls, not rising. All them rats that deserted the sinking ship Judith have been scurrying back to National.
       • bjoneskiwi 1.1.1.1

         11 March 2022 at 7:41 pm

         Yes, is not going to move votes from Labour to ACT, but it might push a few more to National, there is enough pushing already.
         • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1

           11 March 2022 at 7:46 pm

           I agree it could easily shift more floating centrists towards National. However it's just as likely that eliminating the mandate (eventually) could shift a few back as well. All depends on the balance of likes & dislikes in the minds of the deeply shallow sheeple any day they get polled…
           • bjoneskiwi 1.1.1.1.1.1

             11 March 2022 at 8:09 pm

             Is someone who lost their job due to the mandates going to move back? I think it might be one of those issues that really hardens who someone wont vote for.
         • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.2

           11 March 2022 at 7:56 pm

           Dunno if you noticed, but Trotter has this view:

           one thing is for certain: the genie of co-governance is well and truly out of its bottle and it is doubtful whether the New Zealand state any longer possesses either the strength or the will to stuff it back in.

           Were a right-wing government foolish enough to try, the resulting convulsions in the body politic would make the recent dyspepsia manifested in Parliament Grounds look like a delegation of Plunket mums.

           https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2022/03/2023-one-to-lose.html

           However

           nobody has ever gone broke betting on the propensity of white liberals to fold like tents when subjected to an uncompromising assault by people of colour… And are the Non-Māori majority of the Labour Caucus really willing to call the Māori Caucus’s bluff… It is very hard to see how scrapping co-governance and provoking a walkout of Labour’s Māori caucus could happen without provoking a snap election.

           With the Greens and the Māori Party tearing into Labour’s left-flank, it is even harder to see any other outcome apart from a resounding National/Act victory. Which would, of course, mean the scrapping of Three Waters and co-governance. Better, perhaps, to go down with the Tino Rangatiratanga flag flying?

           Shaping up to be a fun year, eh?
           • bjoneskiwi 1.1.1.1.2.1

             11 March 2022 at 8:16 pm

             No, not in the least bit fun at all! Unless it’s a slightly maniacal hysterical kind of laugh, he he heee.

             If you thought 20 and 21 were crap, hang on to your hat, we haven’t seen anything yet, the shit storm is going from a cat 5 to a cat 6.
   • alwyn 1.2

     11 March 2022 at 6:55 pm

     You suggest that Seymour might "front as a hypocrite instead".

     Why would he be a hypocrite? Is it because he opposes special rights for Maori based on the fact that they have Maori ancestry, even though he is Maori himself and could benefit?

     Is anyone who doesn't take advantage of everything they can get a hypocrite?

     Is Bob Jones a hypocrite because he doesn't line up for National Super?
     • Dennis Frank 1.2.1

       11 March 2022 at 7:15 pm

       I was presuming his statement was one of principle: that different rights for people based on ancestry is wrong. Since English property rights are of ancestral origin for pakeha, and not for Maori, they are wrong – according to his principle. Since he believes in those property rights his belief is contradicted by his statement. Therefore he's being hypocritical.

       I suppose we ought to be charitable and acknowledge the technical possibility that his self-contradiction was performed unconsciously?
       • alwyn 1.2.1.1

         11 March 2022 at 7:58 pm

         You tell us that "English property rights are of ancestral origin for pakeha, and not for Maori".

         I cannot understand what on earth you are trying to say here. It ignores the Treaty of Waitangi, among no doubt many other things.

         English property rights presumably are held by pakeha in New Zealand because they were British subjects. Hence, according to article 3 of the Treaty every Maori has all those rights as well The treaty says " imparts to them all the Rights and Privileges of British Subjects.". How could pakeha therefore now have some right that Maori don't share?
         • Dennis Frank 1.2.1.1.1

           11 March 2022 at 8:07 pm

           Seymour's statement was "different sets of political rights for people based on ancestry has got to be one of the most backwards steps any country can take".

           Yet the whole point of the Treaty was to preserve each different set of ancestral rights. Perhaps the confusion is in his mind but it could equally be widely shared. There's also the two different versions. I presume you are quoting the English version whereas the Maori version frames it differently. Maori political stances are generated by their version…
           • alwyn 1.2.1.1.1.1

             11 March 2022 at 8:22 pm

             "I presume you are quoting the English version whereas the Maori version frames it differently".

             Yes I am. On the other hand I have never seen any review of the treaty that has offered any objection to the Maori version and the English of article 3 being treated as conveying any difference in their meaning.

             If you think they do please tell us your objection and where can you show support for your claim.

             And while you are at it please provide some support for your proposal that “the whole point of the Treaty was to preserve each different set of ancestral rights”. Who, apart from you, holds that view?
             • Dennis Frank …

               11 March 2022 at 8:39 pm

               Anyone who reads the history. It was an agreement between the monarch & the chiefs. That's why the two types of sovereignty became the primary issue. The respective bodies of rights derive from the respective sovereignties. Remember that Maori land was held in common. The English also had common land in feudal society.

               As regards possible interpretations of clauses, that's a can of worms for lawyers & advocates of both sides of the binary. I don't go there due to believing holism works better than dualism.

               At this point of the process it's best for us to treat it as spectator sport, I reckon. Let's see how the Maori cabal deals with their pakeha colleagues first. If they get consensus we can take it seriously. Until then it's just Labour Maori doing their thing…
     • bjoneskiwi 1.2.2

       11 March 2022 at 7:32 pm

       Not at all, it was about Sage giving a quote with which I imagine used as –

       Don't vote Labour/Green they are going to "ensure there is iwi co-governance" of everything (see Sage 11/3/22)

       There are probably good reasons Auckland shouldn’t be excluded, there may even be some good reasons for excluding it. But the quote only mentions the co-governance.

       When the polls are going down, don't give away free hits.
     • KJT 1.2.3

       11 March 2022 at 10:06 pm

       Seymour, like most Randites, is logically incoherent.

       And not bright enough to see the contradiction between supporting property rights due to ancestry/inheritance, for wealthy white people, while denying the same thing for Māori.

       It is not “special rights” for Māori. It is the same “right to inheritance” due to the “luck of birth”, Seymour supporters demand for themselves.

       Of course we could go back to all land being held in common, in trust for the future benefit of the whole Iwi, and their children, Pre European Māori style.
       I doubt if Seymour would agree though.

       The whole idea of “commons” is anathema to the “grab what you can and hang onto it” Randian ethos.
2. Ad 2

   11 March 2022 at 6:27 pm

   Everyone filled up their fuel tanks?
   • Treetop 2.1

     11 March 2022 at 6:33 pm

     The memory of the carless day under Muldoon. Back then I actually had a car. No need for one now.
     • Koff 2.1.1

       11 March 2022 at 8:37 pm

       I remember rolling down the Parapara route from Raetihi to Whanganui a few times on carless days (engine off and brakes smoking). Petrol hitting $2.30 here in rural NSW and going higher. Not so much fun filling up a gas guzzler with Aussie distances.
   • weka 2.2

     11 March 2022 at 6:54 pm

     how much money did I save?
     • alwyn 2.2.1

       11 March 2022 at 8:05 pm

       weka!'

       I cannot believe that, if you do own a car it is anything other than an EV. Therefore you would have saved nothing.

       If you don't own a car you would be in the same situation and would have saved nothing

       What Green supporter would ever consider having an ICE? None would ever admit to such a sin against Gaia so you can't admit to owning such a vehicle and therefore you will also have to have, or at least say you have, saved nothing.

       Easy isn't it?
3. Peter 3

   11 March 2022 at 6:36 pm

   I can feel a protest coming on :

   Brian Tamaki declined a bail variation to go on holiday:

   I mean his people don't give him money for him to not go on holiday. Surely that's worth cramming Cranmer Square and the Domain for.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300538753/covid19-brian-tamaki-declined-a-bail-variation-to-go-on-holiday
   • McFlock 3.1

     11 March 2022 at 6:44 pm

     lol I figure there's no justice in the world so he'll probably just get time served on curfew, but it's pretty funny that he's probably on a longer lockdown than anyone who actually follows the rules at the moment.
4. john2 4

   11 March 2022 at 7:12 pm

   still no release to the MSM of the taxpayer union curia poll for feb which has labour greens on 53% & nat/act on 48%. This would not suit the narrative of the TV1 poll.

   also tv1 poll has an internet panel component in it which is dubious to say the least.

   john2.
5. Poission 5

   11 March 2022 at 7:42 pm

   Have the Greens economic whizs factored in that Burlap futures are in the same trajectory as Cobalt?

   https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1501993626456498187?cxt=HHwWloC5_dnPk9gpAAAA
   • pat 5.1

     11 March 2022 at 7:57 pm

     Has anyone priced the future of the futures market?
     • Poission 5.1.1

       11 March 2022 at 7:59 pm

       I am shore there is a CDS for that somewhere.
     • Poission 5.1.2

       11 March 2022 at 8:02 pm

       What is the future of tech? 5 Trillion wiped out on NASDAQ.

       https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1501908508274528257?cxt=HHwWgsC4jZb17NcpAAAA
       • pat 5.1.2.1

         11 March 2022 at 8:22 pm

         Thats an awful lot of 'money'……somewhere someone is probably jumping out a window….or lots of them.
         • Poission 5.1.2.1.1

           11 March 2022 at 8:36 pm

           It is more then the total capitalization of the UK FTSE.Which most likely accounts for the spike in Burlap sacks (for traders with exposed positions)

           Interesting is the only commodites index that has not moved is Onions,as there is enough to cry about.
           • pat 5.1.2.1.1.1

             11 March 2022 at 9:01 pm

             lol…I think you can blame Vince.
             • Poission …

               12 March 2022 at 12:09 am

               Oh the reason why onion futures are unmoved,is it is prohibited.

               https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act
               • pat …

                 12 March 2022 at 8:56 am

                 So I discovered…all thanks to Vince Kosuga.

                 Bizzare that they chose to only ban onions. The world is mad.
6. Grafton Gully 6

   11 March 2022 at 9:06 pm

   Technosphere articles.

   "Since industrialization the technosphere has also emerged as the “control center” of material flows. Most of the materials extracted from the environment stay within the technosphere to further expand and maintain it. This explains why the expansion of the technosphere is key to understanding anthropogenic change in the Earth System (the “environment”) today. The current total mass of the technosphere has been estimated to weigh approximately 30 trillion tons, roughly five orders of magnitude larger than the biomass of all human beings living on earth."

   https://anthropocene.univie.ac.at/resources/technosphere/

   "Although we don’t yet know specifically how planetary intelligence might manifest itself, the researchers note that a mature technosphere involves integrating technological systems with Earth through a network of feedback loops that make up a complex system.

   https://www.technology.org/2022/02/23/can-a-planet-have-its-own-mind/
7. joe90 7

   11 March 2022 at 9:07 pm

   One Palestinian home at a time.

   https://twitter.com/Sarah_Hassan94/status/1501502911188246528

   On Wednesday, Israeli soldiers demolished a Palestinian home in the Khallet al-Eeda area in Jabal Johar, south of Hebron, in the southern part of the occupied West Bank.

   Several army jeeps and bulldozers invaded the area before storming the home and assaulted the family before forcing the Palestinians out of the property.

   The soldiers then demolished the property without allowing the family to remove its furniture and belongings.

   The Israeli army claims the home was built without a permit from the so-called “Civil Administration Office,” the administrative branch of the illegal Israeli occupation in Palestine.

   https://imemc.org/article/soldiers-demolish-a-palestinian-home-in-hebron-2/
8. pat 8

   11 March 2022 at 9:18 pm

   Is he mad or is this idea actually workable?

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018833890/former-nato-commander-on-russian-invasion-of-ukraine

   Im undecided….it could potentially work. The UN as a peace enforcer as originally envisaged.
   • weston 8.1

     11 March 2022 at 11:57 pm

     Mad cocksucker if the world believed him we,d all have to start digging bomb shelters
     • pat 8.1.1

       12 March 2022 at 9:00 am

       We may have to anyway…..or recommission the old ones.
   • McFlock 8.2

     12 March 2022 at 12:35 am

     technically possible, but this is the dude who wanted James blunt to start WW3. And the penalty for failure is a mushroom cloud.
     • pat 8.2.1

       12 March 2022 at 8:54 am

       Yes the penalty for failure is high…and it would require the approval of a lot of countries that currently not on board, but what he is proposing is in fact the original intended operation of the UN.
9. aj 9

   11 March 2022 at 9:59 pm

   Mad.
10. gsays 10

    11 March 2022 at 10:22 pm

    I have not followed the situation in Ukraine closely.

    While he isn't everyone's cup of tea, Russell Brand has a back story that sounds very familiar. US corporate interests are being served on the backs of the Ukraine citizenry.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CxMVcrvtqqs

    Probably better listened to than watch, his enthusiasm is reflected in his arm movements.
11. Anne 11

    11 March 2022 at 11:07 pm

    Yep. There's quite a lot of truth in what he says. Like you, I haven't been following the semantics closely but I guessed there was a backstory we didn't know about. Now I know where Putin's accusations of fascism is coming from but it doesn't absolve him from his share of the blame – nor the corporate western interests many of whom are based in America.

    Thanks gsays.
12. Jester 12

    11 March 2022 at 11:22 pm

    I filled up with 95 petrol this evening $3.419 a litre at Z! Is it still going up further tonight or was I too late and it had already gone up?
    • Barfly 12.1

      12 March 2022 at 8:58 am

      How long is that ball of string?
    • Graeme 12.2

      12 March 2022 at 9:07 am

      The whole thing looked like a cynical cash grab by the fuel companies, maybe they needed to make a payment last night to secure supply at a good (make shitload of profit) price.

      Pleasures of a single point supply chain through NZ Refining. Hopefully this might change now they are just an importer of refined product, just like Gull or any potential new entrant to the game.

      As for the increases in fuel price, not much we can do about it, other than use less. Could be just the thing society and our home needs.

      Going to be interesting watching the double cab brigade demanding government 'do something' about the price of fuel. Changing their lifestyle to use less, or drive an EV is the obvious answer but there'll be some tortuous logic along the journey.
13. pat 13

    12 March 2022 at 9:14 am

    Imagine the price if the NZD were back down to 0.39US

    https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/currency

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