Daily review 27/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 27th, 2023 - 68 comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

68 comments on “Daily review 27/09/2023 ”

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  1. Bearded Git 1
    27 September 2023 at 6:30 pm

    TV1 poll tonight:

    Lab 26 Gr 13 TPM 2

    Nat 36 ACT 12

    NZF 6

    It's 41-48 if NZF doesn't get 5%. It's still close enough to be in doubt-I don't believe TPM is on only 2%. The Greens continue to rise. Go Hipkins tonight in the debate.

  2. ianmac 2
    27 September 2023 at 7:20 pm

    First 15min of Leader's Debate Newshub. Hipkins is well ahead on points. The audience laughed at Luxons loose replies. He couldn't get away with his usual bluster. Law gangs so far. Chippy alive!

  3. Johnr 3
    27 September 2023 at 7:26 pm

    Just turned off the "leaders!!" debate, an absolute gabblefest. Only certainty is that Gower is a bumbling idiot.

    Reinforces the decision not to vote.

    • ianmac 3.1
      27 September 2023 at 7:35 pm

      Did you notice that Luxon is getting agitated, breathing faster because Paddy and CH are holding to Lux answer. eg How many people will loose their jobs under the Nat cull? Lux can only spill his lines but after 3 asks no answer, again.

      Must be why you turned off Johnr.

      • SapphireGem 3.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 10:22 pm

        I noticed a few instances where Luxon bordered on agitation /anger. It seems the image he’s trying to cultivate – amiable, magnanimous, the voice of reason, the slightly underdog “I’ve never debated before” (demonstrated to be a falsehood) nice guy- slipped somewhat tonight.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.2
        28 September 2023 at 12:47 pm

        ianmac, in answer to the number of job losses in the Public Service, Luxon said,

        "I don't know" and I think he doesn't care.

      • mary_a 3.1.3
        28 September 2023 at 4:18 pm

        @ ianmac (3.1) … yes, I did notice how Luxon was getting agitated, when Chippy and Paddy were pushing him.

        Can you imagine Luxon as PM, with Seymour on one side and Peters on the other side, leaning on him? I don't think he would be able to handle things too well somehow, considering how he was getting flustered with Hipkins and Gower.

        A great performance from Chippy last nightyes

  4. Kat 4
    27 September 2023 at 7:34 pm

    Luxons cassette tape has finally worn too thin………the heads are worn and the white noise is painful..

  5. Anne 5
    27 September 2023 at 7:39 pm

    Watched an item on TV1 news re- todays press conference where Hipkins and Robertson released their fiscal costings. I watched it live and was impressed with the clear and concise explanations from both of them. It had the ring of truth about them and had been examined by Infometrics who backed up their claims.

    After a brief excerpt of Robertson, the item crossed to Nicola Willis for a response. I have no qualms in stating she is the most dishonest woman politician I have seen. She tries to pass herself as compassionate and genuine. She is a thoroughly nasty piece of work and I make no apologies for saying so.

    See for yourself:

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm

    The item starts at around 21:12 mins.

    • ianmac 5.1
      27 September 2023 at 7:48 pm

      Perhaps the rot started at the top; Mr Luxon. I think they are both dishonest. Maybe why their vote is fading given that watchers are beginning to see through them.

  6. joe90 6
    27 September 2023 at 8:33 pm

    Quite the business model; charge losers $499/month to by-pass consent safeguards and harass unsuspecting women.

    If you get a message from someone you never matched with on Tinder, it's not a glitch — it's part of the app's expensive new subscription plan that it teased earlier this year, which allows "power users" to send unsolicited messages to non-matches for the small fee of $499 per month.

    As Bloomberg reports, the new VIP subscription tier, the highest of the company's new "Tinder Select" service, does come with an important caveat: it will only be offered to fewer than one percent of the app's user base, and even they'll have to apply in addition to paying the enormous subscription cost.

    https://futurism.com/the-byte/tinder-select-rizzless

  7. observer 7
    27 September 2023 at 8:55 pm

    Sept 27: Chris Hipkins starts to fight the election campaign. Unfortunately 8 months late.

    He exposed Luxon's emptiness in that debate: a constant repetition of "Let me be clear" and "Have a look at", not being clear at all.

    Hipkins had quick wits, Luxon had a script. In a Presidential election there would only be one winner, but this isn't. Instead, it was a preview of a fraud PM who will suddenly have to make decisions, confront reality, and explain to voters … things he is incapable of.

    God help us.

    • AB 7.1
      27 September 2023 at 9:08 pm

      Yeah – a bit of a bloodbath. Felt like an actual sentient human being versus a C-suite robot programmed some time in the early 1990's by undergraduate right-wing Comp Sci students and repeating scripted lines. Let's hope it makes a difference.

      • Kat 7.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 9:15 pm

        Josie Pagani, sounding like Luxons roadie, should have gone out and changed his cassette tape for a fresh one during one of the ad breaks…….

        • SapphireGem 7.1.1.1
          27 September 2023 at 11:28 pm

          Anytime I see Josie Pagani, the supposed left wing commentator, alarm bells sound. She has spent the last six years attacking Labour and fangirling National.

          • Anne 7.1.1.1.1
            27 September 2023 at 11:45 pm

            Its been going on longer than six years. I think it started around 2011/12 when David Shearer was leader. Nothing to do with him as far as I know, but the party lost faith in both Josie and her spouse John Pagani. They effectively dumped them and Josie Pagani has had it in for Labour since. I don't know why the MSM use her, because she rarely has anything of substance to say.

            • SapphireGem 7.1.1.1.1.1
              27 September 2023 at 11:51 pm

              Thank you for that information Anne, it really puts things in context and perspective.

            • PsyclingLeft.Always 7.1.1.1.1.2
              28 September 2023 at 8:01 am

              Josie Pagani has had it in for Labour since. I don't know why the MSM use her, because she rarely has anything of substance to say.

              At a years ago previous Election, I wondered who Josie Pagani was? As she was being touted as a "from the left" commentator ? Not having heard of her before…it really didnt seem much like !

              I asked on the Standard…and Patricia Bremner gave me a heads up.

              : )

          • Patricia Bremner 7.1.1.1.2
            28 September 2023 at 1:01 pm

            She is a great friend of Jenna Lynch.. winkwink say no more!!

      • observer 7.1.2
        27 September 2023 at 9:17 pm

        Laughter is a very good test, because unlike keyboard responses (social media, and us on here) it is not filtered. We can't spin an instinctive response, it's genuine.

        The audience were laughing at Luxon. And not in a good way.

        e.g. Gower asking "Judith Collins or Winston Peters?" to Luxon, and he couldn't even answer that! Cue Hipkins, on form: "But she's on your team!". Laughter.

        • SapphireGem 7.1.2.1
          27 September 2023 at 10:06 pm

          observer- you’re spot on- spontaneous reactions speak volumes, and the audience reaction to Luxon’s blatant disloyalty to his own team member (Collins) was telling. It’s evident that Luxon is ruthless and would sell out his own team members at the drop of a hat.

          Note that despite the Michael Woods debacle, the audience didn’t laugh when Hipkins expressed loyalty to Woods. Loyalty counts for a lot and is a reflection of personal integrity, something Luxon seems to come up short on.

      • SapphireGem 7.1.3
        27 September 2023 at 11:25 pm

        AB your comment is hilarious and apt.

    • Dennis Frank 7.2
      27 September 2023 at 9:16 pm

      Hipkins still looked worried though. I agree he scored some good points. The thing gelled after about 20/30 mins and Gower worked some magic via goodwill, so we got audience resonance naturally & that made the two leaders relaxed & friendly.

      Which would have irritated many rightists, given how much common ground they agreed too! Luxon surprised me by doing way better than the first debate – came across authentic after that initial awkward stage. I bet any undecideds who made up their mind fell his way tonight. The panel verdicts were interesting but I disagreed with their consensus: they reckoned Hipkins did better on points.

      Still seems to me that Labour never got enough runs on the board this term & only the flakey con-man image of Lux can save them – which didn't really show up tonite…

      • observer 7.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 9:20 pm

        Seriously? What actual, factual answers did Luxon give?

        When Hipkins chided him for never answering a question, the audience laughed. Because they knew it.

        • Dennis Frank 7.2.1.1
          28 September 2023 at 7:43 am

          Yeah. The one about not knowing Winston was a classic! He meant personally, which was a valid point, but failed to say so & therefore looked a fool.

          I wouldn't cite any factual answers from Luxon even if he gave some. His demeanor was the difference in this debate. He was happy, assured, confident, knowing he's already a winner. I'm not saying he's right – we don't know that yet & I still think it's more likely to be a moot outcome on election night.

          Hipkins did what he ought to have done in the first debate, but probably insufficient to make a difference now. A game-changer could be if Luxon's facade slips on the finance thing…

      • Tony Veitch 7.2.2
        27 September 2023 at 9:23 pm

        flakey con-man image

        That was about the only thing that did turn up! Luxon is a salesman, mouthing slogans and platitudes and saying whatever necessary to make a sale. He's as shallow as a puddle after 10 minutes of drizzle!

        And Chippie quite rightly pulled him up on some of his non answers!

        • Dennis Frank 7.2.2.1
          28 September 2023 at 7:46 am

          I agree re non-answers & shallow but in a debate style matters and he brought his A game into play after the first half-hour. Mainstreamers are always conned by a smooth operator and that's where the numbers are.

      • Bearded Git 7.2.3
        27 September 2023 at 9:48 pm

        Dennis-defeatist posts like yours are not helping anyone.

        Tell me, do you really think Labour has done a bad job in this term compared with what Nats/ACT/NZF are saying they will will do in the next term if they win?

        If the answer is no then stop slagging Labour off.

        • Dennis Frank 7.2.3.1
          28 September 2023 at 7:49 am

          Better to be realistic though (not defeatist). I think the rightist troika is likely to be a shit-show. Re your third point, the only way the left will ever learn from poor performance is by trying to. Retreat into denial never works.

          • Bearded Git 7.2.3.1.1
            28 September 2023 at 8:46 am

            Dennis-it is your "poor performance" assessment that I, and most people on TS, don't accept.

            Covid, two cyclones and the Ukranian war have been massive challenges that this government has dealt with well. But obviously these massive issues have impacted on economic performance.

            • Dennis Frank 7.2.3.1.1.1
              28 September 2023 at 9:06 am

              I respect your personal opinion on that. I agree that those 4 factors are valid points in favour of Labour. The problem is that folks generally don't see it that way, according to the poll trend, which has seen an inexorable tide go out on Labour ever since they rightly got a landslide win last time.

              Re impact on the economy, yeah but no recession anyway & you think that impresses those floaters? Mood shifts in the masses are ephemeral.

    • Gabby 7.3
      28 September 2023 at 8:41 am

      Has he been preoccupied or did he think he had to be restrained and priministerial? Is it too late to break the media conviction that it's the nats' turn?

  8. PsyclingLeft.Always 8
    27 September 2023 at 9:19 pm

    "Abortion tantamount to..murder." Chris Luxon…

  9. Roy Cartland 9
    27 September 2023 at 9:35 pm

    I wouldn't give it to Hipkins so quickly. It's say he bolstered spirits, but wouldn't have necessarily gained a heap of undecideds. His high voice made him seem a little whiny at times too, sad that's that's even an issue these days.

    Luxon was surprisingly resilient to Chippy's hassles, even if his blathering didn't answer any questions.

    I agree if Chippy had shown a bit more of this mongrel earlier it could have woken up a few more swingers.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 9.1
      27 September 2023 at 9:43 pm

      His high voice made him seem a little whiny at times too, sad that's that's even an issue these days.

      High whiny voice? wtf ? Strange comment

    • SapphireGem 9.2
      27 September 2023 at 10:01 pm

      Roy, what an odd, petty little comment. You’re clearly trying to start some sort of BS narrative about Hipkins’ voice. Come on, surely you can do better than that?!

      • weka 9.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 10:09 pm

        Roy is pointing out that perception matters.

      • Roy Cartland 9.2.2
        27 September 2023 at 11:08 pm

        I'm not trying to 'start something' but if these things are to be judged like talent shows, that's how he came across to me.

        It's the case with these 'presidential' debates. Their likeability is under the microscope.

        I don't give a shit about how they look or sound (I prefer to decide on policy), like I said, I wish it didn't matter. I'm trying to see it like a tv show audience might.

        • SapphireGem 9.2.2.1
          27 September 2023 at 11:16 pm

          Roy, while I understand the notion of trying to view the debate in terms of how a TV audience might view it, it doesn’t follow that something you have perceived is in fact a reality for anyone else.

          • Roy Cartland 9.2.2.1.1
            28 September 2023 at 12:10 pm

            Fair enough, it probably doesn't help to rag on him just when he's perking up either.

            I should have said, he definitely won the debate side, not convinced about the 'talent show' aspect.

            Anyway, I'm in the minority, thank goodness.

  10. aj 10
    27 September 2023 at 9:49 pm

    Grace Petrie singing 'Farewell To Welfare' This is the future if the left don't win.

    And we've got a recession to beat
    Let's put more money into the monarchy and a millionaire in Downing Street
    And someone's got to foot the bill
    Let's start with the disabled and the mentally ill

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkNT3ktaX7Y&list=PLWECjwdXWfirEdbFtbyWFGBQHelIEGaV5&index=12

  11. SapphireGem 11
    27 September 2023 at 9:59 pm

    Hipkins came across really well in tonight’s debate- his integrity, strength of character, directness, and decisiveness came through.

    Luxon on the other hand presented as slippery, evasive, condescending, equivocating, and with an unfortunate habit of lapsing into speeches when brief answers were required.

    Hipkins won the debate by a mile!

  12. ianmac 12
    27 September 2023 at 10:02 pm

    There was an interesting sad moment during the review before 9pm. An older couple were there to ask what could be done to their wrecked farm after the storms. Trees and rubbish from plantations needed actions. They said that Labour were useless and that they hadn't fixed the problems. Luxon had visited and he was going to look into the matter. Labour made them sour. Luxon will fix it all. Really?

    • SapphireGem 12.1
      27 September 2023 at 10:12 pm

      ianmac- I feel very sorry for this couple as they have been through a hellish experience and are clearly desperate. It’s so cheap of Luxon to capitalise on their misfortune. As Hipkins said, you can’t just shut down a forestry company and leave the trees unharvested. As usual, Hipkins gave the intelligent response whereas Luxon went with the easy, cheap, expedient answer. Typical.

      • aj 12.1.1
        28 September 2023 at 7:34 am

        The woman in that couple had venom for Labour dripping from every word. Labour had provided 'nothing' in support for them after Gabrielle. Groundswell attitude. I'd never expect that type to acknowledge the $1B support provided for the regions affected by that disaster.

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 12.1.1.1
          28 September 2023 at 7:51 am

          Hmm, for sure "some" would have an attack Labour agenda…and what better place than national tv to air that?

          Really.. what was Chris Hipkins to say to them? "Heres, have some free money?" IMO he gave the best response. As SapphireGem at # 12.1

          Luxon went with the easy, cheap, expedient answer. Typical.

        • Anne 12.1.1.2
          28 September 2023 at 10:47 am

          Setting aside the nightmare they have been through and are still going through, I think you will find they were never supporters of the Labour Party.

  13. EE 13
    27 September 2023 at 10:13 pm

    Paddy asked about a big health issue: bowel cancer.
    But nothing about a bigger health issue: Dental health.
    Why?

    Would having someone suffering from poor dental health care, in the audience and being interviewed afterwards, be too shocking

  14. Ffloyd 14
    27 September 2023 at 10:22 pm

    Prime Minister Hipkins by a country mile. Luxon was flummoxed most of the time and had to resort to inanities. ‘ I feel like I should give you a hug’ to PM. because he was down in the quagmire. Absolute idiot.

    • Anne 14.1
      27 September 2023 at 10:38 pm

      He's been watching some of Muldoon's debates for inspiration. Mind you the last one Muldoon ever did came back to haunt him when he said after Lange had given him one of his brilliant broadsides "and I love you too". It marked the beginning of the end of Muldoon.

  15. Patricia Bremner 15
    27 September 2023 at 10:47 pm

    We enjoyed the debate. Chris Hipkins clearly won. I think this may be a pivotal point. It follows the excellent presentation of the fiscal plan today. More of this.

  16. SPC 16
    28 September 2023 at 6:30 pm

    After the debate Luxon seemed assured before media, the thinking/instruction clearly was that he merely had to remain composed and on message as he was ahead on points – the polls.

    He's developing his capacity to blather reassurance while presiding over poor policy design (it is of course to cater to privilege, not be good for New Zealand as a society or as a functioning modern nation state).

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